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View Full Version : Next JK game? (no, there's nothing new here, just a discussion)


Lord Kaisen
12-16-2004, 10:01 AM
Comes a new game in the JK series? JK IV for example?

TK-8252
12-16-2004, 01:47 PM
Why would they make a a JK4 when they haven't made a JK3 yet?

And no, there is nothing official about a new JK game. If there ever is a JK3, it won't be for a long time, and it'll have to be a new engine.

Neverhoodian
12-16-2004, 03:21 PM
Ok, if TK's post confused you, it's because there's been controversy over whether JA should be called "JK3" (or JKIII depending on how you like your numbers), as some feel JA was more of an expansion for JO than a full-fledged sequel. You gotta explain these things for the newcomers, TK. It would at least be a good opportunity for you to brainwash (er, I mean "persuade" :p ) them to adopt your point of view

This has been speculated many times this past year. My guess is that the series may yet continue with another full fledged sequel, but it'll take a very long time before it's even close to being released. Take the wait from JK to JO for example. Fans had to wait five freakin' years before they got the sequel they were clamoring for. I suspect a similar amount of time will elapse, if not longer, before another game's released.

Obi_Kwiet
12-16-2004, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by TK-8252
Why would they make a a JK4 when they haven't made a JK3 yet?


Yay. Another JK3 vs. JK 4 debate. That's about all that goes on in the old forum any more. :rolleyes:

TK-8252
12-16-2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet
Yay. Another JK3 vs. JK 4 debate. That's about all that goes on in the old forum any more. :rolleyes:

There's nothing to debate, because it's a fact that Jedi Academy is not JK3.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-16-2004, 10:33 PM
I just want to point out that Jedi Outcast servers send heartbeats to the master server called

masterjk2.ravensoft.com

while Jedi Academy servers send heartbeats to a master server called

masterjk3.ravensoft.com

I find it interesting that while Raven could have just as easily called the master server masterjkja.ravensoft.com or even masterja.ravensoft.com, they decided to call it

masterjk3.ravensoft.com

But TK is correct in stating that it has never been called "JK3" in any LucasArts promotional material or on their web site(s).

txa1265
12-16-2004, 11:20 PM
I think the fact that this has bottomed out into yet another mindless 'jkja vs. jk3' debate indicates what is known about the *possibility* of a new JK game.

Nothing is known - not even about intent.

I think it is safe to say that it is >1 year away, even if it is hatching in someone's brain.

Mike

Prime
12-17-2004, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by txa1265
I think it is safe to say that it is >1 year away, even if it is hatching in someone's brain. I'd say that is the only thing we know for sure...

TK-425
12-17-2004, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I just want to point out that Jedi Outcast servers send heartbeats to the master server called

masterjk2.ravensoft.com

while Jedi Academy servers send heartbeats to a master server called

masterjk3.ravensoft.com

I find it interesting that while Raven could have just as easily called the master server masterjkja.ravensoft.com or even masterja.ravensoft.com, they decided to call it

masterjk3.ravensoft.com

But TK is correct in stating that it has never been called "JK3" in any LucasArts promotional material or on their web site(s).
No offence but... I dont think raven cared.

Durocha
12-19-2004, 08:33 AM
Well, uh, to get back at the matter at hand. Don't expect any new Jedi Knight/Dark Forces game anytime soon. Raven, as far as I know, still has the rights to the series and they're working on Quake IV at the moment.

So, unless LucasArts gives the rights to someone else, don't expect anything after Quake is released. And even then it would be a while most likely.

Kurgan
12-19-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
There's nothing to debate, because it's a fact that Jedi Academy is not JK3.


[just kidding] And where the @#$(* is Dark Forces III?? And Mysteries of the Sith 2? Those jerks!!!![/just kidding]

txa1265
12-19-2004, 11:38 AM
[non sequitor]When is Duke Nukem Forever due?[/non sequitor]

;)

Seriously - we probably won't hear anything at E3, with EpIII and all the other stuff, so I wouldn't even be looking for ~9 months for info.

Mike

KitchenKnif
12-24-2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Durocha
Well, uh, to get back at the matter at hand. Don't expect any new Jedi Knight/Dark Forces game anytime soon. Raven, as far as I know, still has the rights to the series and they're working on Quake IV at the moment.

So, unless LucasArts gives the rights to someone else, don't expect anything after Quake is released. And even then it would be a while most likely.

It's not Raven that is making Quake IV it's ID SOFTWARE!!!!(unless it changed...)
Does anyone know their gameing ROOTS anymore?!?!?!?!?
:bdroid1:

txa1265
12-24-2004, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by KitchenKnif
It's not Raven that is making Quake IV it's ID SOFTWARE!!!!(unless it changed...)
Does anyone know their gameing ROOTS anymore?!?!?!?!?
:bdroid1: Sorry ... Raven is developing Quake IV, and always has been ... they have been contracted by id using the Doom3 engine.

And what does Roots have to do with it, Tobey?

Mike

KitchenKnif
12-25-2004, 07:01 AM
oh! ithought i saw it on the id software website...

Toa Tahu
12-28-2004, 06:17 AM
Well,if Raven,or any other developer *were* to make another game to the series,they could really take some suggestions or make some improvements over Jedi Academy.IMHO,JA was a bit too rushed,and,it could use some improvements,some slight and subtle improvements which could significantly increase the immersion level.

Also,if it can be done,please change the graphics engine.

mediablitz
12-28-2004, 08:17 AM
After the doom 3 engine is solidly out of date, expect a new jedi knight series game using that engine. JK series always gets the ass end of the deal. However, I did hear they were working on a title. it's "Jedi Knight: Revenge of the RPG Newbs". Raven has promised that there will be even more bowing emotes, DARTH MAUL SKINZZ (!!!) and suggested that they are contracting Punkbuster to deal with LAMERZ!!!!11 That's right kids. There will also be an adjustable skill-o-meter that can be set. If anyone comes onto your server and is above the set skill level they are AUTO-BANNED 4 LAMMING!!!!111 They also promised to lower the skill level of the game even more so that even the most clumsy idiot can compete with an intelligent and experienced gamer. (they realized that JKA was not a drastic enough dumbing down from JK2.) Here is the official quote from Raven:

"Because of the massive demand, we promise that we will nerf every gametype except for saber dueling to the point where they are unplayable. Although we successfully made full force saber only unplayable in all gametypes, we realized that the full weapon community was still very playable, and that this frusturates our loyal saber rpg newbie fanbase. We pledge that in the next release of Jedi Knight series, guns will be completely pointless."

hgwall44
12-28-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
After the doom 3 engine is solidly out of date, expect a new jedi knight series game using that engine. JK series always gets the ass end of the deal. However, I did hear they were working on a title. it's "Jedi Knight: Revenge of the RPG Newbs". Raven has promised that there will be even more bowing emotes, DARTH MAUL SKINZZ (!!!) and suggested that they are contracting Punkbuster to deal with LAMERZ!!!!11 That's right kids. There will also be an adjustable skill-o-meter that can be set. If anyone comes onto your server and is above the set skill level they are AUTO-BANNED 4 LAMMING!!!!111 They also promised to lower the skill level of the game even more so that even the most clumsy idiot can compete with an intelligent and experienced gamer. (they realized that JKA was not a drastic enough dumbing down from JK2.) Here is the official quote from Raven:

"Because of the massive demand, we promise that we will nerf every gametype except for saber dueling to the point where they are unplayable. Although we successfully made full force saber only unplayable in all gametypes, we realized that the full weapon community was still very playable, and that this frusturates our loyal saber rpg newbie fanbase. We pledge that in the next release of Jedi Knight series, guns will be completely pointless."

Thats interesting. lol. Maybe the new star wars game that is comin out like summer or next year lol will be good, cant remember the name though. But its got sabers and guns and stuff......

Fallen'VS
12-28-2004, 11:18 AM
If Raven get's the game I won't buy it, they suck. I can only hope they don't totally destroy Quake IV. LucasArts needs to step up and reclaim development SOLELY, like they did with DF2:JK. If they ship it out to 3rd party again it can only eventually suck.

As for the next SW game to come out, Republic Commando is a tactical shooter, has no sabers in it at all. It's on the Unreal engine (pwnage) and is a straight shooter. If there's MP, like rumored, I hope you rpg newbies don't cry when I headshot you over and over and call me an aimbot, just take the ownage and move on :D

TK-425
12-30-2004, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
After the doom 3 engine is solidly out of date, expect a new jedi knight series game using that engine. JK series always gets the ass end of the deal. However, I did hear they were working on a title. it's "Jedi Knight: Revenge of the RPG Newbs". Raven has promised that there will be even more bowing emotes, DARTH MAUL SKINZZ (!!!) and suggested that they are contracting Punkbuster to deal with LAMERZ!!!!11 That's right kids. There will also be an adjustable skill-o-meter that can be set. If anyone comes onto your server and is above the set skill level they are AUTO-BANNED 4 LAMMING!!!!111 They also promised to lower the skill level of the game even more so that even the most clumsy idiot can compete with an intelligent and experienced gamer. (they realized that JKA was not a drastic enough dumbing down from JK2.) Here is the official quote from Raven:

"Because of the massive demand, we promise that we will nerf every gametype except for saber dueling to the point where they are unplayable. Although we successfully made full force saber only unplayable in all gametypes, we realized that the full weapon community was still very playable, and that this frusturates our loyal saber rpg newbie fanbase. We pledge that in the next release of Jedi Knight series, guns will be completely pointless."
:lol:

Prime
12-30-2004, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
After the doom 3 engine is solidly out of date, expect a new jedi knight series game using that engine. JK series always gets the ass end of the deal. However, I did hear they were working on a title. it's "Jedi Knight: Revenge of the RPG Newbs". Raven has promised that there will be even more bowing emotes, DARTH MAUL SKINZZ (!!!) and suggested that they are contracting Punkbuster to deal with LAMERZ!!!!11 That's right kids. There will also be an adjustable skill-o-meter that can be set. If anyone comes onto your server and is above the set skill level they are AUTO-BANNED 4 LAMMING!!!!111 They also promised to lower the skill level of the game even more so that even the most clumsy idiot can compete with an intelligent and experienced gamer. (they realized that JKA was not a drastic enough dumbing down from JK2.) Here is the official quote from Raven:

"Because of the massive demand, we promise that we will nerf every gametype except for saber dueling to the point where they are unplayable. Although we successfully made full force saber only unplayable in all gametypes, we realized that the full weapon community was still very playable, and that this frusturates our loyal saber rpg newbie fanbase. We pledge that in the next release of Jedi Knight series, guns will be completely pointless." I think that version has already been modded into existence.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-30-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Fallen'VS
If Raven get's the game I won't buy it, they suck.

Raven made Jedi Outcast, an undeniably great game. They also made Star Trek Voyager Elite Force (which I have but never installed) and I have heard that it is a great game as well.

txa1265
12-30-2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Raven made Jedi Outcast, an undeniably great game. They also made Star Trek Voyager Elite Force (which I have but never installed) and I have heard that it is a great game as well. Yep, Elite Force was a classic first-gen Q3 engine game, akin to NOLF ... its' main problem was it was way too short, otherwise it was excellent.

Raven is one of the better devs, IMO. I've yet to play a game of theirs I don't like.

Mike

Prime
12-30-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Fallen'VS
If Raven get's the game I won't buy it, they suck. I'll sleep better now. I was worried about what you might do. Oh wait, why should we care? :)

Originally posted by Fallen'VS
If they ship it out to 3rd party again it can only eventually suck. Like Knights of the Old Republic and Jedi Outcast? Good theory.

Originally posted by Fallen'VS
If there's MP, like rumored, I hope you rpg newbies don't cry when I headshot you over and over and call me an aimbot, just take the ownage and move on :D I hope you don't cry when there are no RPG newbies and everyone is better than you. ;)

mediablitz
12-30-2004, 11:14 PM
uh...prime...Fallen was the leader of a team that went undefeated for a half a year on the TWL ladder..the largest and most respected ladder in jk2

txa1265
12-31-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
uh...prime...Fallen was the leader of a team that went undefeated for a half a year on the TWL ladder..the largest and most respected ladder in jk2 So where he goes, so goes ... um, I'm with Prime ... why do I care? Whatever his skills are, that doesn't make his opinion count more than anyone elses ... including the hundreds of thousands who have bought and enjoyed Raven's JKII and JA, and the millions who have bought and enjoyed Raven's games in general.

Mike

mediablitz
12-31-2004, 12:36 AM
Newbie, I was pointing out that saying everyone would own fallen after the RPG newbs are gone (like that's going to happen) was ridiculous. And skilled players opinions do matter, i'm afraid. Fallen simply echoes the thoughts of the majority of competitive minded players out there. Is your wookie level 5 yet?
anyways, his statement about raven in JK series is major valid. Every patch they did for JK2 made it worse, and then basejka was the ultimate slap in the face. Raven has a shot at redeeming themselves in my mind if Quake 4 kicks ass. But anyways, Fallen was winning ladders in this series when you were still trying to get to level 21 with your dwarf in everquest, so....I think his opinions do matter more than yours.

TK-425
12-31-2004, 05:39 AM
It's spelled WOOKIEE

txa1265
12-31-2004, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
Newbie, <snip> Fallen was winning ladders in this series when you were still trying to get to level 21 with your dwarf in everquest, so....I think his opinions do matter more than yours. I assume you were referring to me? Not that it matters, but I was building computers and gaming when you weren't even an itch in your father's crotch ...

As for opinions that matter - Raven has gotten sales of ~$750 (between Jedi Academy, Soldier of Fortune II, Jedi Knight II, Elite Force, Soldier of Fortune, Heretic II, Hexen II, Hexen, Heretic) based on Mac and PC versions of most ... how much from these 'pro's'?

The game industry is powered by MONEY, not by arrogant, loudmouthed teenagers.

Mike

txa1265
12-31-2004, 06:07 AM
Apologies to any innocent bystanders ;)

There are plenty of good developers out there, including Raven. Looking at Elite Force I vs. II, I is a better game, but there is plenty of good stuff for #II - more Trek goodness, much longer, and so on ... they really cranked on the Q3 engine.

Personally I would prefer a non id engine, I like the look of Source and Crytek engines, even though Doom 3 is technically better. I don't know how each would scale to a JK game, but it would be nice to see.

I'd be quite happy with a game focus like Doom 3 and core HL2 - single player focus with DM only for MP ... none of this rpg-er vs. ladder vs. people who just like to play argument.

Mike

Prime
12-31-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
uh...prime...Fallen was the leader of a team that went undefeated for a half a year on the TWL ladder..the largest and most respected ladder in jk2 Doesn't make his opinion any more or less important, dispite what some competative players would have us believe.

And I was only saying it in jest (thus the smiley, although perhaps the wrong one) and he had a smilie at the end of his post, so I figured he was teasing too. If he is a good player, great. Doesn't mean I can't disagree with him about Lucasarts contracting out development work.

Originally posted by mediablitz
Fallen simply echoes the thoughts of the majority of competitive minded players out there. Fair enough. If competative players don't want to buy future Raven games, fine by me. But most competative players seem to be under the assumption that Raven tried to make a competatively oriented game and failed. To me it seems obvious that they tried to make a game that catered to casual players and succeeded. It is the admin and RPG mods that ruined the game for most of us more casual players.

Originally posted by mediablitz
But anyways, Fallen was winning ladders in this series And I should care why? Because competative players demand that I do? I'm happy for him, but I don't see why it should matter to me.

Originally posted by mediablitz
you were still trying to get to level 21 with your dwarf in everquest, Never played it. And it is likely I have been playing games longer than he has. But that doesn't really matter either, does it? Neither Mike or myself are RPG players (Mike isn't even an MP player). You seem to assume that since we don't play uber-competatively and play on ladders that we are automatically RPGers, which is just jumping to the wrong conclusion. Just as I try not to assume that every competative player is like those pimple-faced geeks on "Arena."

Originally posted by mediablitz
so....I think his opinions do matter more than yours. If it matters more to you, fine. It doesn't to me, and not to Raven, obviously.

mediablitz
12-31-2004, 02:46 PM
What needs to be accepted here is that when one is on a signifigantly higher level of skill at a game, they also have a signifigantly higher understanding of the depth and subtlties of the game. Someone such as that is simply in a better position to judge the game. You say things like "pro gamer" and "competitive" and "casual" and "just for fun". But it really boils down to this...nobody on this board is a pro gamer. When you say "competitive" in terms of a player type, what you mean is players who have fun improving their skills and trying to be the best. I can tell you that's what is fun for me. It's the "casual" and "just for fun" guys who have turned this game into a wank fest where people stand around for hours with their sabers down kicking anyone who shows any signs of skill or who wish to fight. So think carefully about who you are siding with here. Anyone who was around to remember the glory that was the early days of jk2 can't help but be bitter about the direction our favorite game has taken.

txa1265
12-31-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by mediablitz
What needs to be accepted here is that when one is on a signifigantly higher level of skill at a game, they also have a signifigantly higher understanding of the depth and subtlties of the game. Someone such as that is simply in a better position to judge the game.No, they simply possess a better ability at killing others before they are killed.

If the purpose is to judge BattleFront or UT 2k4, then I defer to the judgement of those better suited to judge those types of games. Perhaps there will be a Saber based MP-focus Star Wars game, in which case I would again defer to MP oriented players. But JKII & JA are not MP-focused. They are SP-first games complemented with a wide array of MP options, many more than most in their class. And in that realm (SP-focus), elite pros aren't the best to judge a game.

Originally posted by mediablitz
Anyone who was around to remember the glory that was the early days of jk2 can't help but be bitter about the direction our favorite game has taken. Let's look at the reality:
- JKII is an acknowledged great game, and JA was a very good game (under-reviewed, IMO, but that doesn't matter).
- JKII & JA sold very well, and remained top sellers for many months. They held their selling price at high levels for a very long time compared to other contemporary games. They sold very well on multiple platforms as well.
- They were never in the 'top 5' in terms of multiplayer gaming popularity, but JKII was more popular at the height of its' popularity than JA ever was.
- Both games have remained in the top 25 of MP games for a very long time - JK for nearly 3 years, JA for ~16 months.
- But yet what has driven sales for both of these games is the desire for players to take on the role of Kyle (or Jaden) and play through the story.

... and I was there for your so-called glory days, I remember that immediately after JKII was released, and subsequent to each patch, there was a flurry of superioristic posts from so-called 'pro players' who would pontificate about the reasons why JKII was 'teh sux0r' or whatever. I played JKII again a few months ago, as well as JA ... still the fun games I remember.

Mike

Prime
12-31-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by mediablitz
What needs to be accepted here is that when one is on a signifigantly higher level of skill at a game, they also have a signifigantly higher understanding of the depth and subtlties of the game. Someone such as that is simply in a better position to judge the game. To judge the game in terms of competative balance, maybe. But that is not the primary concern to every player. Some players play to be the best/win all the time. Other players just want a game that is fun and has lots of elements from Star Wars. Both are valid reasons to play (and I mean play, not run around with their saber down trying to enforce unreaslistic rules). So to the latter group having a highly skilled player telling them the game sucks because uber strategy X breaks the game might not matter one god damn to them. If a player is interested in having a game that provides an experience which is a reasonable representation of the movies, a skilled player's opinion that the game should have grip-kicks is irrelevant. What needs to be accepted is that a skilled player may have insight into certain aspects of the game, but not every aspect, and that not every player cares if the game is suitable for competative play. A skilled player might not give a rats ass or know very little about Star Wars, so they will have a much less informed opinion about how the game captures the feel of that universe.

Originally posted by mediablitz
You say things like "pro gamer" and "competitive" and "casual" and "just for fun". But it really boils down to this...nobody on this board is a pro gamer. When you say "competitive" in terms of a player type, what you mean is players who have fun improving their skills and trying to be the best. To be clear, when I refer to a competative player, I mean players whose primary goal is winning and competes on ladders and in tournaments. They don't care if the game closely represents Star Wars or not. They are happy either winning with a saber slice or a grip-kick or a pull-saber throw.

To me casual gamer refers to players who play the game for a fun diversion and/or wants a game that reasonably represents Star Wars. Doesn't mean they won't try to win. That is why I refer to myself as a casual player. I don't compete on ladders, but I play to get as many frags as I can and have a good time. I also like that it is a Star Wars game and I get to chop people up with lightsabers. I don't really care for the grip-kick stuff because I'd like a good Star Wars game.

Then there are RPGers and admin modders who do not even attempt to play the game. To me that is where the problem is.

Originally posted by mediablitz
It's the "casual" and "just for fun" guys who have turned this game into a wank fest where people stand around for hours with their sabers down kicking anyone who shows any signs of skill or who wish to fight. By my definition I don't think the casual just-for-fun guys did ruin the game. Many of those players (at least in the beginning) had fun playing the game as it was meant to be played.

Originally posted by mediablitz
So think carefully about who you are siding with here. Anyone who was around to remember the glory that was the early days of jk2 can't help but be bitter about the direction our favorite game has taken. I'm not siding with anyone apart from myself. But I would tend to side more with competative players since they actually play the game, not because some of them demand that I do so. It is the admin stuff that I can't stand. And I did get into JO the day it came out, and from what I remember the funnest time was in the very beginning with the pre-patches 1.02 (IIRC).

CaptainRAVE
01-12-2005, 05:05 AM
They'll most likely make it when the Quake IV engine is finished.