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Astrotoy7
11-09-2004, 05:56 AM
Hello All. The NJO was quite easily the most contriversial development in lit EU since its inception and subsequent evolution. When it comes to NJO, you generally come across 3 types of ppl :

1. People who are very fond of the NJO for breathing a spark of life into a stagnating universe, full of clone emperors and superweapons

2. People who do not like the NJO at all, some of these people of course having read 'Vector Prime' (and maybe a cpl of others) thinking that this book typifies the NJO. It most certainly does NOT ! Then you have detractors who actually havent read any of the books

3. People who have not read the NJO. They might not know the NJO exists, or have heard mixed things about it.

I hope this thread will accomodate each of these groups. It has been stickied, because there always seems to be someone with a NJO question that ends up being a new thread

* * *

Firstly, some quick FAQs

What is the NJO ??
NJO stands for "New Jedi Order' It is a 21 book series. 19 of these being novels, 2 being in e-book format.

Which was the first book ??
Legendary fantasy author, R.A Salvatore penned the first novel in the NJO : Vector Prime. Many different authors contributed to the NJO, the most notable of which being James Luceno, Mike Stackpole, Troy Denning, Elaine Cunnigham and Matt Stover.

What's it about ??
The NJO commences at a time period appromximately 25 years after the events of SW : ANH. There is a relative peace between the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant. A new threat to the safety of the entire galaxy arrives in the form of the Yuuzhan Vong. A warlike, deeply ritualistic and brutal species from just outside the galactic border. Their homeworld no longer exists, and they are now in the final leg of a 60 year journey they have made - to enter the 'galaxy far far away' and occupy Coruscant, the seat of the New Republic.

What other characters are in it ??
Almost *everyone* who has been in a previous EU novel seems to make an appearance in the NJO. But all the fave characters are there : Luke, Han, Leia, and their children Jacen & Jaina(twins) and Anakin. Chewie is in it of course, Lando, Mara Jade, Tallon Karrde, R2, 3PO, Wedge......etc

I've heard some main characters die - is this true ?
Yes, there are a few deaths, but 2 main characters die. they were both sad occasions indeed

Why are opinions so divided about NJO ??
Well, apart from being a matter of personal opinion of course, the NJO resulted from a conscious decision to try something new. A huge story arc, co-ordinating several writers and 21 separate pieces of work. New themes of religion, technology and social structure help define the Yuuzhan Vong. But despite all this, at the end of the day, the most interesting thing are the characters themselves. The NJo has allowed authors to explore our favourite characters, and even those of the Yuuzhan Vong, This is something that has never been done in SW EU effectively before.

What about that book, "Traitor" ??
Indeed, Traitor is arguably the most daring SW book ever published. It basically centres on 2 characters. Jacen and Vergere, a former jedi and agent of the Yuuzhan Vong. The book outlines the physical and mental torture Jacen Solo is subjected to following capture by the Yuuzhan Vong. It is written by Matt Stover, whom interestingly enough, will be doing the Ep3 novelisation.....

* * *

So I would hereby like to encourage and invite any and all NJO discussion, questions etc, to stay in *this* thread

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
11-09-2004, 08:53 AM
do things get moving very quickly in the NJO from the next book onwards, (whichever that may be) the fact that there are 19 books makes me think its not exactly fast paced. Vector Prime certainly wasnt.

Shok_Tinoktin
11-09-2004, 01:05 PM
You have to consider that this is an entire war that occurs in 19 books. It has all the members of the last war on one side against an entire new galaxy. A serious enemy that makes it all the way to the core of the original galaxy. Telling that in 19 books is very fast paced. The last one was told in about 3 movies, 40 books, tons of comics, and lots else that I cant think of right now.

I would say that the first books in the series are not quite as good as the series together. The problem is, the different technology makes it so that it just goes back and forth, and whoever has figured out some little trick is gonna win. Once you hit Star by Star (one of the best books ever IMO), the series really picks up, and is basically really good from there on out.

primalunderdog
11-09-2004, 05:36 PM
I think the dark tide books are awsome.

Cyborgninja
11-10-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
ive reada couple of books from the EU and enjoyed them, and i read Vector Prime recently, first book of the quite extensive New Jedi Order. Vector Prime is the first EU book ive read that i thought was god-awful. So what i want to know is, is the rest of the New Jedi Order worth reading, what happens in it?

ive heard that Coruscant falls to this new race thats been introduced but thats about it


I am currently reading that book and liken it

Leper Messiah
11-11-2004, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by jackofblades
I am currently reading that book and liken it

Vector Prime is horrible.

in my opinion of course. i appreciate others may not feel the same way, but it did enough for me to go from being excited about the new series to put me WELL off

Rogue Nine
11-11-2004, 07:16 PM
They killed Chewie. That turned me off to the whole damn thing. That and the Yuuzhan Vong are misplaced Star Trek aliens.

As far as I'm concerned, the NJO doesn't exist.

Shok_Tinoktin
11-11-2004, 07:27 PM
You can't judge the Yuuzhan Vong untill you read The Unifying Force (or at least Star by Star and Traitor).

They killed Yoda. As far as I'm concerned, ROTJ doesn't exist. :D

Astrotoy7
11-12-2004, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
....They killed Yoda. As far as I'm concerned, ROTJ doesn't exist. :D

HAHAHAHA ! :D

the 'they' who killed chewie only did so after GLs approval, this is a well documented fact. And heaven forbid if a main character dies....for me it just helped illustrate the impact of the new enemy very clearly :)

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
11-12-2004, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Rogue Nine
They killed Chewie. That turned me off to the whole damn thing. That and the Yuuzhan Vong are misplaced Star Trek aliens.


anyone familiar with star trek think (this is only based on vector prime) that the Yuuzhan Vong are a lot like species 8472?

Chewie dying wasnt a problem for me but he could have had a MUCH better death

Cyborgninja
11-12-2004, 10:36 AM
how does chewie die

Leper Messiah
11-12-2004, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by jackofblades
how does chewie die

gets left behind on a planet that gets crushed by its moon, if memory serves

Shok_Tinoktin
11-12-2004, 12:49 PM
He at least got a much better death than Ackbar did. I was joking before reading it that the worst possible death would be to die implicitly during the middle of the story. :indif:

Leper Messiah
11-12-2004, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
He at least got a much better death than Ackbar did. I was joking before reading it that the worst possible death would be to die implicitly during the middle of the story. :indif:

when'd Ackbar croak?

Shok_Tinoktin
11-12-2004, 03:42 PM
The Unifying Force (last NJO book)

Leper Messiah
11-12-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
The Unifying Force (last NJO book)

how? and did they beat the Vong in the end?

Shok_Tinoktin
11-12-2004, 06:33 PM
How did he die? Old age. They had Tycho walk into a meeting in the middle of the book and tell everyone that Ackbar had died. That was it. No dignity at all. :(

Yes, they beat the Vong in the end. (sort of)

Rogue Nine
11-12-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
HAHAHAHA ! :D

the 'they' who killed chewie only did so after GLs approval, this is a well documented fact. And heaven forbid if a main character dies....for me it just helped illustrate the impact of the new enemy very clearly :)

mtfbwya

Don't get me started on GL's involvement in the EU. :/

90SK
11-12-2004, 09:15 PM
Chewie: "*sigh* well it was bound to happen eventually...:(

Coruscant: *choke* They did WHAT!?


Originally posted by Rogue Nine
As far as I'm concerned, the NJO doesn't exist.

I have to say, I must agree, though it was kind of nice to see all the EU characters brought together in such a grand manner.

Lieutenant_kettch
11-12-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by CaptainSkye

though it was kind of nice to see all the EU characters brought together in such a grand manner.

^^^hard to argue with that

it was a good change of pace

Leper Messiah
11-13-2004, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
How did he die? Old age. They had Tycho walk into a meeting in the middle of the book and tell everyone that Ackbar had died. That was it. No dignity at all. :(



that deserves a big time WTF?!

Astrotoy7
11-16-2004, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by Rogue Nine
Don't get me started on GL's involvement in the EU. :/

theres no need to get upset about it. Of course GLs EU involvement is ceremonial more than instrumental, but he gave the green light to others deciding that chewie should bite the bullet(or the planet, in his case :p) and suggested a certain solo child be killed because of potential name confusion. I find that a bit strange, but thems the breaks, and whoozits dying had more of an impact I believe than if it was left with the original candidate :)

now its time for us to hug and exchange EU lore :D

oh, and Leper, dont do the 8472 comparison. theres acpl of others around who have made the same comparison, and yes their exposure to the njo has been as short as yours. Im a a big NJO fan and a big Voyager fan. I often describe the Vong to people as 'ugly like the predator' and obsessed with honour and battle like the Klingons ! At the end of the day, its really not the biotech and philosophy of the Vong that got me hooked, it was the CHARACTERS, just liek in any good book. Nom Anor, a scheming, calculating YV executor is one of the most interesting characters in EU ever, and his type of character is archetypal to many a good story, be it a murder mystery, a spy thriller or a sci-fi fantasy story....

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
11-16-2004, 07:20 AM
for absolute certain - is the book in which Corsucant falls to the Vong "Star By Star" cos i wanna go out and buy it but i just want to make sure that Coruscants fall doesnt begin in this book and finish in another or that the fall has already begun at the start of this book

Pho3nix
11-16-2004, 09:50 AM
That Y V **** pretty much sucks....I mean they DO look like a species from Star Trek. And Chewie dying sucks...and it's sad :mad:

Lynk Former
11-16-2004, 01:58 PM
you've already got an NJO thread open, use that.

swphreak
11-16-2004, 02:22 PM
NJO rocks. I also like the Old Republic with Exar Kun and even earlier with Naga Sadow and the Sith.

Shok_Tinoktin
11-16-2004, 03:01 PM
The entirety of the fall of Coruscant to the Vong is in Star by Star. Although the book Traitor lets you find out what happens to the planet after it is controlled by the Yuuzhan Vong. ;)

Shok_Tinoktin
11-16-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Pho3nix
That Y V **** pretty much sucks....I mean they DO look like a species from Star Trek. And Chewie dying sucks...and it's sad :mad:

Those Star Wars movies pretty much suck....I mean they DO look like a species from ET: The Extra Terrestrial. And Obi Wan dying sucks...and it's sad :mad:.........................;)

Astrotoy7
11-17-2004, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
Those Star Wars movies pretty much suck....I mean they DO look like a species from ET: The Extra Terrestrial. And Obi Wan dying sucks...and it's sad :mad:.........................;)

LMAO....I love such freakish saracsm :p Bravo Shok !

I like it when ppl say "OMFG that SUX ! Its like Star Trek" and dont know much about Star trek either, just what they think ST is like from seeing a cpl of movies and a cpl of episodes here and there.... :( :p It just liek me saying Harry potter is Just like LOTR because is has wizards n stuff :p

I like hearing insights and criticisms of informed people, wankers that just make up their mind without substantiation are just ignorant. I can only hope for them that this mode of thought does not carry into their everyday lives.... :(


mtfbwya

Astrotoy7
11-17-2004, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by Lynk Former
you've already got an NJO thread open, use that.

indeed. especially since a few of us had mentioned that over there(including myself).......

yes, Star by Star it is, or as us njo phreaks call it ...SBS

Lynk who do I have to kill to be EU mod...for the listed mods in the EU forum are quite dull in their knowledge and hardly around.... thank the maker SWPhreak and Jan Gaarni come around..... :) But what the punters need is a local boy....

:p

Leper, It seems strange to read SBS after VP....so very strange..you miss all the build up, and totally defeat the beauty of a multi-book story arc..... :( :p I'd suggets reading "X-Wing : Wedge's gamble" and follow how the new republic got corucsant to begin with(it didnt happen immediately after ROTJs events)

mtfbwya

swphreak
11-17-2004, 09:38 AM
You have to fight me to the death, Astro.

Well... Lynk should have just merged this thread with the other :/

And I'd suggest reading all of the NJO, in order.

wassup
11-21-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Cyborgninja
well that is about worse than boba fetts so called death

Go read The Unifying Force, you'll be in for quite a surprise! :p

Leper Messiah
11-22-2004, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7


Leper, It seems strange to read SBS after VP....so very strange..you miss all the build up, and totally defeat the beauty of a multi-book story arc..... :( :p I'd suggets reading "X-Wing : Wedge's gamble" and follow how the new republic got corucsant to begin with(it didnt happen immediately after ROTJs events)


actually im following it perfectly, it helped that Star By Star explains near the start in about a page and a half everything that has already happened up to that point. besides im a student i cant afford to buy every book in the series, so im just gonna read the most important ones. but Jesus W. Christ SBS is taking a while to get going.

Shok_Tinoktin
11-22-2004, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
SBS is taking a while to get going.

Its worth it.

Leper Messiah
11-22-2004, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
Its worth it.

it had better be, where i am, the Vong have just feinted an attack on some world i forget the name of and Danni Quee theorised they were preserving their resources for something else, please tell me its the attack on Coruscant, ive had enough of waiting!!!!!!!!

Astrotoy7
11-26-2004, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
it had better be, where i am, the Vong have just feinted an attack on some world i forget the name of and Danni Quee theorised they were preserving their resources for something else, please tell me its the attack on Coruscant, ive had enough of waiting!!!!!!!!

man, I think you should just read comix instead... BANG ! PHROOOM !!!! Enough action for ya ?? :p

mtfbwya

Lady Vader
11-26-2004, 10:31 AM
I didn't think Vector Prime was that bad, in fact I actually liked the entire NJO series. Traitor was my favorite one.

Master_Keralys
11-28-2004, 03:46 PM
The NJO had its down points. VP was one of those in my view. However, the rest of the series had some incredible moments. Read it, enjoy it. Don't quit at least till you've read Traitor. That's the make it or break it point of the series. If you hate that one, you'll hate it all, but VP is a bad book to judge the series by. You fools who claim it doesn't exist b/c you hate it are just that: fools.

Be patient, though. A nineteen book series doesn't come to the end all in a flash and bang.

Samnmax221
11-28-2004, 05:09 PM
Vector Prime was kinda different to read butis alright

Damn their killing all my favorite charactors

Shok_Tinoktin
11-28-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
Don't quit at least till you've read Traitor. That's the make it or break it point of the series. If you hate that one, you'll hate it all, but VP is a bad book to judge the series by.

I agree that you should read to at least Traitor before judging the series, and that if you don't like the series by the end of Traitor you probably wont like it at all (and vice versa), but I think it is possible to not like Traitor and like the rest of the series (and vice versa). Traitor was very different from the other books in the series, IMO at least.

Master_Keralys
11-29-2004, 06:37 AM
A valid point, I suppose. Regardless, it was the general make-or-break point of the series, b/c it shifted the course of the entire saga in a very new and different direction.

Traitor was probably the most unique SW novel out there, with Shatterpoint a close second. I love reading Matt Stover, b/c he writes to make you think, even though it's just SW "popcorn" reading. Even when I disagree with his philosophies, they make you think.

Astrotoy7
12-01-2004, 03:34 AM
Traitor is a one of a kind. In fact, it will remain a one of a kind in SW EU. It would be creative suicide for an EU author to attempt to do such a thing again.... :p but I bet you there will be someone stupid who does try :(

mtfbwya

Shok_Tinoktin
12-01-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
but I bet you there will be someone stupid who does try :(

I hope your wrong about that, because you are definitely dead on with the rest of it.

Leper Messiah
12-01-2004, 01:54 PM
i have to say, im over halfway through Star By Star, and the actual storyline is good, but the book is poorly written in my opinion

Shok_Tinoktin
12-01-2004, 11:55 PM
Just came across this and thought it was interesting:

Imagine taking a beloved character and killing him...why that's just not Star Wars! What's next? Will someone have the audacity to kill another beloved character, like Obiwan Kenobi? HOW DARE....oops, oh, yeah. Well, at least Lucas repented, because in TPM, none of the major characters die...oops, wait a minute.

The R. A. Salvatore interview (http://www.theforce.net/books/unjoh/interviews/) here is very interesting.

Astrotoy7
12-02-2004, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
i have to say, im over halfway through Star By Star, and the actual storyline is good, but the book is poorly written in my opinion

BAH ! you just dont listen lep ! It will NEVER be the same as if you read them in sequence as originally intended. Theres a lot of momentous stuff happenning in SBS. I find its drawn up parts only building the tension. By the time coruscant was taken, I felt just as defeated as the NR did :)

but still, you do it *your* way, the *crazy* way :p

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
12-02-2004, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
BAH ! you just dont listen lep ! It will NEVER be the same as if you read them in sequence as originally intended. Theres a lot of momentous stuff happenning in SBS. I find its drawn up parts only building the tension. By the time coruscant was taken, I felt just as defeated as the NR did :)

but still, you do it *your* way, the *crazy* way :p

mtfbwya


nonononono you dont understand, the storyline is good, very good in fact, and there hasnt been a single reference i havnt understood so far, but its like the Lord Of The Rings for me, great story but it was written in such a way that i hated reading it, in the case of Star By Star sometimes the language is very lacklustre, the characters seem a little wooden at times and the writer i swear is making up branches of the New Republic government as he goes along - every single EU book i have read has different names for New Republic government departments. The senates also a good example, i know its been bombed at least once in the EU but its description changes EVERY SINGLE BOOK. just a couple of niggling factors

Shok_Tinoktin
12-02-2004, 10:38 AM
You have to keep in mind that there are several years of time between the Galactic Civil War and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Not just time, peace time. The galaxy has been at war for decades, the New Republic has been at war since it was created. When you finally add peace into the equation, it is logical that the needs of the government would change drastically, and thus that the government itself would change drastically. To see that there has been a lot of change, just think about this: could you imagine Fey'lya as Chief of State during HoT or Gavin Darklighter as leader of Rogue Squadron during the X-Wing series?

Samnmax221
12-02-2004, 04:35 PM
I'v never known when luke and Mara got married is that in any of the previuse books

Leper Messiah
12-02-2004, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
You have to keep in mind that there are several years of time between the Galactic Civil War and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Not just time, peace time. The galaxy has been at war for decades, the New Republic has been at war since it was created. When you finally add peace into the equation, it is logical that the needs of the government would change drastically, and thus that the government itself would change drastically. To see that there has been a lot of change, just think about this: could you imagine Fey'lya as Chief of State during HoT or Gavin Darklighter as leader of Rogue Squadron during the X-Wing series?

thats not what i mean, names of departments of the government are always changing. I havnt read the EU in a while i dont rememer Leia's actual title being Chief Of State, i thought she was President. Departments of the New Republic government that do the same thing are given different names all the time. As i said before the Senate seems to change its description every book. Im not talking about storyline changes, just plain coninuity errors

Shok_Tinoktin
12-02-2004, 05:40 PM
Thats what I'm saying. Times are changing, its likely that the government will look different after years of unprecedented peace time. I'll try to clear up the Chief of State thing though. When it was Mon Mothma, she went by Chief of State. When Leia took over, she also took the title of Chief of State. When Leia took a leave of absence, Ponc Gavrisom took the title of President. My assumption is that President is something of a temporary title.

Leper Messiah
12-02-2004, 09:28 PM
that doesnt explain the ever changing shifts in the New Republics military structure or the senates coninuous changes. face it, the EU has coninuity errors like all series :D

Shok_Tinoktin
12-02-2004, 09:33 PM
of course it has continuity errors. i'm not disputing that by any means. but you make it sound like there is something particularly bad in this book, so I was trying to address that. there is not as much continuity error as you might think. a lot of what appears to be inconsistent, can actually be rationalized.







and some of it is explained in books 2-8 ;)

Astrotoy7
12-03-2004, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
and some of it is explained in books 2-8 ;)

yeah Leper, who died and made you chief of Lucasbooks continuity.... :P stiff shyte, read the book, enjoy the story/or not and try for at least once, if that is at all possible for someone of your intellectual talents, to make some comments worthy of discussing, rather than whine about $hitty little things like that in an absolutely HUGE and awesome book....(and series mind you) :p :) ;)

*goes back to laugh at other threads where leper is starting to grate on people* :p it is so wonderfully obvious you are from the UK, btw :D here in aus, the favoured descriptor is "whingin pom" :p


mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
12-03-2004, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
yeah Leper, who died and made you chief of Lucasbooks continuity.... :P stiff shyte, read the book, enjoy the story/or not and try for at least once, if that is at all possible for someone of your intellectual talents, to make some comments worthy of discussing, rather than whine about $hitty little things like that in an absolutely HUGE and awesome book....(and series mind you) :p :) ;)

*goes back to laugh at other threads where leper is starting to grate on people* :p it is so wonderfully obvious you are from the UK, btw :D here in aus, the favoured descriptor is "whingin pom" :p


mtfbwya

oh dear, took that a bit seriously didnt we? :p

i have quite enough "intellectual talents" to judge the book im reading, but i havnt done that yet, ive just stated my impressions so far. I havnt got to the end yet and im still giving it a chance, all im sayin so far is i find the constant restructuring of the New Republic government quite distracting in the entire EU, not just this book.

Cyborgninja
12-03-2004, 07:29 AM
Well I just finish vector prime not to long a go and I fought it was great but it needed more combat.

Leper Messiah
12-03-2004, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Cyborgninja
Well I just finish vector prime not to long a go and I fought it was great but it needed more combat.

the cheif plot point i didnt like about Vector Prime was that it ended with the Republic winning the battle, it hardly seemed the best way to introduce this enemy that would procede to invade and conquer most of the galaxy. Other than that, i thought Chewbacca's death was poor, i felt certain he would die in actual combat, as it seemed the only fitting way to go. Maybe it was a suprise move but it just, well, wasnt very good.

Shok_Tinoktin
12-03-2004, 10:47 AM
But if he died in combat, then someone would have to be a better warrior than him. The way it was, it took an entire moon to take him down. Don't get me wrong though, NJO has its share of poor deaths.

Astrotoy7
12-03-2004, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
the cheif plot point i didnt like about Vector Prime was that it ended with the Republic winning the battle, it hardly seemed the best way to introduce this enemy that would procede to invade and conquer most of the galaxy. Other than that, i thought Chewbacca's death was poor, i felt certain he would die in actual combat, as it seemed the only fitting way to go. Maybe it was a suprise move but it just, well, wasnt very good.

Chewies death was a sacrifice. His life for anakins. It also set up for a whole new dynamic between Han Solo, who quickly loses the plot, and anakin...Both are deeply haunted by Chewies death, not the least anakin, who shares alot of guilt and grief over it :(

it was an interesting, and perhaps the only way to have allowed the authors to explore Hans fall to the emotional depths he did..... it was a brave move on the part of NJO authors, and the fact that "immortalised" characters arent actually immortal is a comforting thing to know in the EU...otherwise it would become boring very quickly :)

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
12-14-2004, 06:08 PM
ok im gettin through Star By Star slowly (ive got a lot of work to do atm) and the battle of Coruscant has just begun and Anakin has just snuffed it.

on the subject of Anakins death: excellent, very well done to the author, now that is the way Chewie should have gone down. I was a little sad to see Anakin go, I was hoping Jacen or Jaina would die, both have annoyed me throughout their presence in the EU, Anakin was a much better character than they are.

Astrotoy7
12-15-2004, 03:32 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
ok im gettin through Star By Star slowly (ive got a lot of work to do atm) and the battle of Coruscant has just begun and Anakin has just snuffed it.

on the subject of Anakins death: excellent, very well done to the author, now that is the way Chewie should have gone down. I was a little sad to see Anakin go, I was hoping Jacen or Jaina would die, both have annoyed me throughout their presence in the EU, Anakin was a much better character than they are.

that's the thing. Anakin was a well liked character by many. His loss allowed the author(s) to reflect on each of the characters, summarising how each has responded differently in a time of turmoil. It also helped crystallise the jedi cause I believe, and possibly make things a *little* easier for Luke, who was starting to encounter an increasing amount of division within the ranks of the jedi

keep reading ! SBS is cool....but nothing like TUF, which is an absolutely awesome finale...DaMMIT! I wish they would hurry with those post NJO novels...Im getting sick of the clone wars era stuff :(



mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
12-15-2004, 04:55 AM
Does the Republic retake Coruscant? and what happens there while the Vong control it?

also ive got as far as Jaina and a few of the other Jedi going to stop the Vong from keeping Anakins body, and i liked the fact that Jaina used a dark side power, does she go any further down that route, because that would make her character far less annoying to me :D

Astrotoy7
12-15-2004, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
Does the Republic retake Coruscant? and what happens there while the Vong control it?

also ive got as far as Jaina and a few of the other Jedi going to stop the Vong from keeping Anakins body, and i liked the fact that Jaina used a dark side power, does she go any further down that route, because that would make her character far less annoying to me :D

Man ! why dont you just read the books. What the Vong do to coruscant is awesome and horrifying ! As for the republic retaking ? it..... READ "THE UNIFYING FORCE" :p !

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
12-15-2004, 05:55 AM
because i dont have time! look how long its taken me to get through Star By Star :D

Samnmax221
12-16-2004, 12:27 PM
I started reading the NJO recently and actely enjoyed it despite the death of some main characters. Bt then I starteded reading Star by Star. I just doesn't seem to fit as well as the rest of the NJO does. Is there anybody else who thinks this?

mr.piercy
12-16-2004, 04:00 PM
what is Star by Star?

Samnmax221
12-16-2004, 06:14 PM
One of the books in the New Jedi order series haven't you heard of them?

mr.piercy
12-17-2004, 01:13 AM
yer ive seen them and i knwo bout em, but not star by star

Astrotoy7
12-17-2004, 01:44 AM
Hmm.... SBS is one of the greatest books in the NJO.... That crazy metallica fan Leper is reading it right now as well, and there is a thread here where he tells us all about it :( :p

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140223

mtfbwya

Samnmax221
12-18-2004, 10:40 AM
It's just not written as well and it seems out of place

Astrotoy7
12-18-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Samnmax221
It's just not written as well and it seems out of place

how far into it are you ??

had you read the preceding books ??

SBS can be a bit ofverwhelming....alot is going on. I remember reading it over a cpl months duration, rather than a few weeks. Made all the epic events even more huge in my mind :p

good luck with it, hey if you dont end up gettin into it, return it and get Survivors Quest :D :p

mtfbwya

Master_Keralys
12-20-2004, 05:46 PM
Actually, I thought Star by Star fit the series like a glove; without spoiling anything it's definitely the Empire Strikes Back of the saga. It's a lot to take in, though; a lot of different plots are running in a lot of different directions. However, in my opinion, this adds to it rather than detracts, particularly given that it was Troy Denning's first venture into writing novels for the SW universe - no small task to be given SbS, trust me.

Ignore that last comment by Astro: good luck with it, hey if you dont end up gettin into it, return it and get Survivors Quest. He's got something against Tim Zahn... but even I'll admit that SQ was not the best of the SW books I've read. Just wait till you're around the end, you'll find you love SbS.

Astrotoy7
12-21-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
...Ignore that last comment by Astro: . He's got something against Tim Zahn... but even I'll admit that SQ was not the best of the SW books I've read. Just wait till you're around the end, you'll find you love SbS.

Hey ! I wasnt being sarcastic ! I just thought that if he cant enjoy SBS then he shouldnt bother with the NJO and stick to something familiar, like Zahn and his *groan* over-recycled and over-used themes... yep, cool in 1990. But c'mon its 15 damn years onward now ! (and 20 in EU years !!!!) :p

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
01-08-2005, 07:45 AM
ok, finished Star By Star a litle while ago, and it wasnt awful, but i dont think it was awesome, Coruscant falling should have really merited its own book, i was dissapointed with how it took second place to the voxyn storyline, allthough Anakins death was an excellent piece of writing. Compared to Chewie's death, it was far far better. Actually reading this book i felt Chewie could have quite feasibly died fighting Tsavong Lah, and i maintain my disappointment with the way that he died. Star By Star was good in many places though, i enjoyed Borsk Fey'la's death - scheming to the last :D and what i did find promising was the rising of the dark side in Jaina towards the end - an interesting twist to a character i previously found rather boring (of the 3 solo children the one that died was the only one i liked). i cant be too critical of Star By Star though because i bought and read the next book in the series, Dark Journey, so SBS must have done its job.

Dark Journey was fairly enjoyable, I was disappointed Jaina didnt go further down the dark path and she seems at the end of the book to be recovering from her near fall. The swiftly deteriorating battle over Coruscant at the start was my favorite sequence of the planets fall, particularly the pilot who notes with horror that Coruscants lights were going out, a very powerful image in my view. im undecided whether to continue reading the series, what is the next book? and more importantly is it any good?

Shok_Tinoktin
01-08-2005, 04:28 PM
The next book is Rebel Dawn, which is the first half of the Enemy Lines duology. As far as how good it is, I'm the wrong person to ask. I don't care for Aaron Allston's writing style, but most people do. Of course, if you do finish Enemy Lines, then you will be ready for Traitor, one of the best SW books in existence.

Samnmax221
01-08-2005, 08:16 PM
I actuely enjoyed rebel dawn (Yes I managed to read through 3 more books since my last post) I liked the trickery and subterfuge that Allston added.

Leper Messiah
01-18-2005, 03:29 AM
actually the book is rebel dream :p

was reading it today and i hit upon the first reference i didnt understand since i picked up the NJO at Star By Star. Luke says he named the Twin Suns squadron in memory of Tatooine, so has Tatooine been destroyed?

Astrotoy7
01-18-2005, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
actually the book is rebel dream :p

was reading it today and i hit upon the first reference i didnt understand since i picked up the NJO at Star By Star. Luke says he named the Twin Suns squadron in memory of Tatooine, so has Tatooine been destroyed?

no, it hasnt !! [/quick simple answer]

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
01-18-2005, 06:49 AM
well whats "in memory" all about

Prime
01-18-2005, 07:49 AM
It is in his memory, as in he remembers it.

Leper Messiah
01-18-2005, 05:46 PM
why named in memory then, why not named for? seems an odd phrasing

Shok_Tinoktin
01-18-2005, 08:55 PM
in memory of his childhood there mostly. it was about his memory, not its memory.

Leper Messiah
01-19-2005, 02:37 AM
fair enough. bloody ambiguous jedi masters, I knew there was a reason i preferred Kyp

Astrotoy7
01-19-2005, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
fair enough. bloody ambiguous jedi masters, I knew there was a reason i preferred Kyp

heh....this coming from a person who doesnt like brats :p

sing a long a la 'Men In Tights'

We're Kyp's - Dozen Jedi Knights !
We roam around the galaxy looking for fights !

:p

mtfbwya

Jan Gaarni
01-19-2005, 07:49 AM
We maaaayy look like paaaaantiiiiiees ..... :D

Leper Messiah
01-19-2005, 01:42 PM
yes but Kyp has a redeeming quality - he can annoy Jaina at will :D

Astrotoy7
01-23-2005, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
yes but Kyp has a redeeming quality - he can annoy Jaina at will :D

Jaina trembles every time Kyp walks in, but she prefers the non-threatening Jag....

I can definitely see Jaina and Kyp hooking up eventually. It makes sense, especially with Kyps connection to Han. Any kids they have will surely be quite kickass as potential jedi, and be able to give Ben Skywalker an a$$ kickin if he deserves it :p

mtfbwya

Leper Messiah
01-23-2005, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Jaina trembles every time Kyp walks in, but she prefers the non-threatening Jag....

I can definitely see Jaina and Kyp hooking up eventually. It makes sense, especially with Kyps connection to Han. Any kids they have will surely be quite kickass as potential jedi, and be able to give Ben Skywalker an a$$ kickin if he deserves it :p

mtfbwya

Id be very disappointed with Kyp if he did but i could see it happening after the very inevitable death of Jag Fel.

oh and Ben Skywalker = odds on favorite to kill Luke

Shok_Tinoktin
01-23-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
and be able to give Ben Skywalker an a$$ kickin if he deserves it :p

Someone better.

Originally posted by Leper Messiah
oh and Ben Skywalker = odds on favorite to kill Luke

I dunno about that. from the looks of things, no one is gonna kill Luke.

Leper Messiah
01-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
Someone better


I dunno about that. from the looks of things, no one is gonna kill Luke.

No child of Jaina Solo is likely to be a character i tolerate for long unless it comes out lightsaber weilding, sith to the bone and takes her and a room full of people out :D

Luke has to die at some point, old age would be a shockingly terrible way for the hero of the whole story to die. And besides Mara Jade is hardly the sort of character that grows old peacefully so he'd just be a loner for the rest of his days which would be pretty rubbish. Get him killed off by Ben (who will undoubtedly knock some young lass up before he turns bad thus setting the whole ugly thing in motion again :D) in fact Luke could do the Obi-Wan surrender to Vader and disappear and continue to turn up as a ghost every now and again

Shok_Tinoktin
01-23-2005, 01:29 PM
yes i agree that someone should kill luke, i just dont agree that someone will kill luke. GL seems to be against it, and that makes it hard for it to happen.

Leper Messiah
01-23-2005, 03:55 PM
well it cant really be a passing EU villain of the week (or even an EU villain of the 19-book series for that matter) It needs to be a prominent member of the permanent EU cast. Of those, not many possiblities exist to my mind. I would have thought Anakin Solo a possibility before he died, but Ben Skywalker seems to be the most plausible person to be powerful and skillful enough. I guess Kyp could at a push or Jaina/Jacen but they dont seem to have the necessary presence in the story. Mara could but it would make no sense for her character to be sent back in that direction so the newborn Skywalker seems the best candidate, if as you say anyone does kill Luke.

i also give 2/1 odds that Ben Skywalker will not make it through life without having a hand severed in a lightsaber duel.

Astrotoy7
01-24-2005, 12:27 AM
yes. it would be roXXorrzz for Ben to turn out as scum :D But I dont see it happenin....

Luke will prolly do a sacrifice himself thing, like Ben Kenobi....

mtfbwya

Shok_Tinoktin
01-24-2005, 06:12 PM
Doesn't everyone turn out as scum? As far as killing Luke though, thats something else.

Astrotoy7
01-25-2005, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
Doesn't everyone turn out as scum? As far as killing Luke though, thats something else.

hey...you can hardly call our boy jacen scum... kyp, yes :D

mtfbwya

Prime
01-25-2005, 08:07 AM
Kyle and Corran > both. :)

Shok_Tinoktin
01-25-2005, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
hey...you can hardly call our boy jacen scum...

Yeah, for the most part. But when he first gets the force back from Vergere, you have to admitt he loses it a bit for a little while.

Samnmax221
02-04-2005, 04:02 PM
I thought that whole "I won't use the Force" stage was pretty obnoxuise

Astrotoy7
02-04-2005, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Samnmax221
I thought that whole "I won't use the Force" stage was pretty obnoxuise

well, one related point is that Jacen is very much like his mother in many respects. In essence she has rejected/neglected the force for most part...

mtfbwya

Samnmax221
02-07-2005, 04:21 PM
Well it was still well after planet of twilight it looked like she might go on to use the force more but didn't

abespam
04-08-2005, 10:05 AM
considering the EU authors originally wanted to kill luke in NJO but GL forbid is example enough that he prob wouldnt die ne time soon. (Poor CHewie was second choice). Mind you if they did kill Luke i would of been pissed and probably wouldnt of read any of the NJO

We'll have to wait till dark nest to see what happens.


I'v never known when luke and Mara got married is that in any of the previuse books

"union" comics..

swphreak
04-08-2005, 07:27 PM
And the whole.... Luke proposing to Mara at the Hand of Thrawn...

jokemaster
04-11-2005, 12:18 AM
I liked them. They're good, not the best SW books, but pretty good. The best, IMO is star by star.

[AstroEDIT]..Im sure it was by accident, but you had triple posted JM....fixed :p

carry on !

Master_Keralys
04-29-2005, 01:21 AM
Hey ! I wasnt being sarcastic ! I just thought that if he cant enjoy SBS then he shouldnt bother with the NJO and stick to something familiar, like Zahn and his *groan* over-recycled and over-used themes... yep, cool in 1990. But c'mon its 15 damn years onward now ! (and 20 in EU years !!!!) My bad, friend. I'm inclined to agree that Zahn should just move on into something new, rather than tell us yet more about Thrawn and Co. But then, he writes quite well, even now holding his own fairly well (though I must admit that he's long since been passed in my mind by Stover, Luceno, and Denning).

Jacen was a punk in the beginning of the NJO, admittedly, but his ending more than makes up for it. Indeed, in many ways that beginning was a necessary prologue to his eventual domination. And, as cool a character as Anakin was, he could never have matched what Jacen accomplished, because he was never more than the blade, if you know what I mean. Jacen, on the other hand, was willing to do all it took, and for his journey to be truly satisfying, he had to have the time of "resisting the call." See Campbellian mythology for what I'm talking about. Remember, even Luke had that, back in the day of, "It's all such a long way from here." Without that time of rejection, the hero's eventual triumph is not so powerful.

The only disappointment to me with the NJO was the closure - and not because Luceno did a bad job, but simply because I felt another 100 pages would have helped him nail it closed.

In any case, my new chant is, "Bring on Dark Nest!"

The Source
07-24-2005, 08:15 PM
I am a:
3. People who have not read the NJO. They might not know the NJO exists, or have heard mixed things about it.

Every time I go by the novels, I feel like there are too many. Is it worth the reading?

Astrotoy7
07-25-2005, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by TheSource
I am a:


Every time I go by the novels, I feel like there are too many. Is it worth the reading?

well, I myself highly recommend them. However, its sortve depends on whether your into the Expanded Universe or just like the movies on their own.

The NJO does an excellent job of tying together the many many different elements of EU. It was done so well, that it makes the shoddy planning of the clone wars series look ridiculous in comparison.

You must be warned though. It is a 21 book story arc. And the first book, Vector Prime is kinda slow. If you want you can skip and read the Dark Tide books first : Onslaught & Ruin...

mtfbwya

Swoosh
11-07-2005, 11:49 PM
I just finished Star by Star (I resumed reading NJO a couple of months ago) and I was very saddened by the fate of Anakin... even more so than that of Chewie. I guess it's sad to see someone with so much potential and realized power to fade away, even if it is just fiction :(

Matt

Astrotoy7
11-22-2005, 09:35 AM
I just finished Star by Star (I resumed reading NJO a couple of months ago) and I was very saddened by the fate of Anakin... even more so than that of Chewie. I guess it's sad to see someone with so much potential and realized power to fade away, even if it is just fiction :(

Matt

decipher this :

I <3 SBS = ESB of EU IMO :D

mtfbwya

jokemaster
11-22-2005, 11:18 AM
decipher this :

I <3 SBS = ESB of EU IMO :D


I......smaller than......3...

1 IS SMALLER THAN 3

SBS=ESB.....................hm.............this is tough...............ah well, I'll try again later.

jomaster
03-29-2006, 05:39 PM
I love star by star its the empire strikes back of expanded universe in my opinion -translation complete

anywho i'm just reading the second book in the njo series and i'm loving it but i love mike stackpole as a writer anyway :D

RC-1162
07-31-2006, 05:24 AM
I......smaller than......3...

1 IS SMALLER THAN 3

SBS=ESB.....................hm.............this is tough...............ah well, I'll try again later.

he said he loves Star By Star and it is the "Empire Strikes Back" of NJO. surely you could figure that out? :p

I have only two NJO novels, Agent of Chaos I and The Unifying Force, which i am still reading. i dont like the Vong, because they killed Chewie and Anakin Solo. and they're just a frikin rip-off. the only reason i bought the books was that i didnt know about the Vong when i bought Agents of Chaos and i wanted to say good riddance to the Vong after i finished The Unifying Force :xp:

seriously.

well, that, and i wanted something to read :D

Davinq
08-02-2006, 01:36 PM
I just finished the Final Prophecy. What a cliffhanger! If I ever even liked a Vong freak, it would have to be Nen Yim, she's so sympathising and respectful towards the end. Her end. I hope Nom Anor dies in the UF, because what he did was... yeah.

RC-1162
08-22-2006, 08:50 PM
@ Davin: youre in luck :D

Char Ell
09-12-2006, 10:57 AM
2. People who do not like the NJO at all... Then you have detractors who actually havent read any of the books (emphasis added) I guess I would fall into this classification although I don't really consider myself a "detractor" since I've never posted any disparaging comments about the Yuuzhan Vong. What little knowledge I have of the YV I've obtained from SW:TNEC and after giving it some thought I've realized it isn't that the YV come from a different galaxy, use bio-engineering, their overall ugly appearance, or the fact that a couple of main characters die that have kept me from reading any of the NJO books. I've come to realize that for me it boils down to one main YV characteristic. "Curiously, all Yuuzhan Vong seemed to be unable to use, or even register within, the universal energy field of the Force." - Star Wars: The New Essential Chronologies; pp. 203-204 Do any of the NJO books explain why this is the case? This reminds me of the ysalamiri creatures Timothy Zahn used in the Thrawn Trilogy and seems an even more extreme deviation from my understanding of how the Force operates than those Force-voiding creatures were.

RC-1162
09-12-2006, 12:12 PM
it seems:
that the Vong homeplanet was also a living entity like Zonama Sekot, and that planet got pissed off because the Vong were so violent, so supposedly, the planet stripped them of the Force.

Prime
09-12-2006, 02:03 PM
it seems:
that the Vong homeplanet was also a living entity like Zonama Sekot, and that planet got pissed off because the Vong were so violent, so supposedly, the planet stripped them of the Force.This angry planets can be real *******s, can't they?

Char Ell
09-12-2006, 07:15 PM
Interesting. So what NJO book details how this occurred? I think that is the one I want to read first.

Samnmax221
09-20-2006, 12:56 AM
Interesting. So what NJO book details how this occurred? I think that is the one I want to read first.
Just start with Vector Prime, and pay attention. If you don't you might end up rather puzzled later on.

Hippy
04-03-2013, 03:33 PM
I mean i only managed to get about 15 books in, as i started in mid-late highschool and now i have been in university for 3 years (no time to read :( )...but i have heard it all, my brother likes to convince himself he knows all SW EU and tried on many occassions to insult this series having never even read a page. Hate that, i mean if you dont like it after reading it, then fine everyone deserves an opinion.

But i found the style of writing was a more mature one than many series employ, i found it not so biased, such as movies are (i.e. everyone says "he is a main caharacter he cant die").

I mean i was PISSED when they killed my favorite character in Vector Prime! PISSED! but the way they did it had me emotional and amped up and just totally hooked to the series from that point on, i mean AWESOME WRITING.

not gonna lie some of the books get kinda boring, but if you dont mind a little thick plot and some politics, then the wait for the action is not that long, and when they give you action in this series they deliver the whole package!

Pretty much what Astro said, I love that this series gives a new enemy. i mean i have read and watched so much about the empire and the little guys in the white and black stormtrooper outfits. the Yuuzahn vong give a new fresh thing to get into. i mean how can you hate that? I love this series, i LOVE the characters; Jacen, anikan, jaina, the bringing back of calrisian...han is still a bad ass. and for once leia is not just a bump on a log....GREAT SERIES...now i am all amped and have to go read the next book. peace out fellow SW FANS!

DCG mp