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zERoCooL2479
12-28-2004, 04:26 PM
Hello folks,

Good 'ol c1 here just letting you know that I will be releasing the source code to the JA/JAR mods sometime soon. Be on the lookout at jk3files.com and at LucasFiles.com.

Regards,
-Mike

Rumor
12-29-2004, 12:31 AM
thanks for making it even more accessible to get your hands on something to destroy any game.

no really, THANKS! (i bet only a couple get the reference ;))

mediablitz
12-29-2004, 01:04 AM
The problem with your mod is that there aren't enough things to make gameplay ridiculous. Sure, jetpacks and grapplehooks being enabled make killing somone in an FFA impossible if they really want to avoid death, but that's just not enough. please add more newbie crutch tools so that everyone will be invincable. After all...if nobody can die, nobody clan "lame", right?

You should also make running maps even more idiot proof. While it was a stroke of genius to make elite skills like strafe jumping worthless with your grapplehooks and jetpack newbie crutches, it still actually takes a slight bit of effort to go from one place of the map to the other. This is unacceptable. How about a teleporter that INSTANTLY teleports newbies to anywhere on the map they wish to go. That way it takes even less skill to navigate maps than your additions have already made it.

Druid Allanon
12-29-2004, 03:59 AM
While you're at it, why not make a feature that enables admins to auto-ban people the moment they got owned.

Prime
12-29-2004, 09:40 AM
What does it all matter, anyway? Mods like this caused just about everyone who actually wanted to play the game to quit a long time ago.

mediablitz
12-29-2004, 10:59 AM
The core of the problem is this....every other FPS ever made on the Quake engine had a responsible mod making community, and a competitive minded player community. The modding community made mods to improve the competitive aspect of the game, which is what the players were looking for. This was not so in JK series. Modders like Slider (huge delerious newbies when it comes to the game) are quite clueless about the game from a competitive standpoint and were totally irresponsible in what content they added to their mod. They were totally unconcerned with the competitive aspect of the game, and instead catered to their own RPG desires. Their mods truly did ruin the gameplay of JKA on any competitive level whatsoever. Their mods are centered towards dumbing the game down for newbies, and giving bitter kiddie admins tools to take out their e-rage on superior players.

The mods made by Slider stand as the worst things ever to happen to this series from a competitive standpoint. They are complete clueless newbies. If you play on one of their mods, know that you are playing a mod made by someone without even the slightest understanding of game balance. If you are simply looking for a mod that will add JK2 style flip kicking without altering the core balance of the game, and still retaining all of the complex competitive aspects, get Xmod. Here are a few alterations to the basejka game which show the extreme newbishness of the creators of these mods:

1) 0 force regen. This is standard with their mod. The legit competitive setting determined by raven is and always has been (even in jk2) 200. By setting it to 0, it allows extreme spamming, and makes lightsiders all but invincable (on 0 regen you can heal 100 points every 5 seconds...LOL..newbies). Also, it removes all percision from the game. On legit settings every last move you make has to count. If you foul up a pull kick and miss, you will pay for it by losing precious force. In 0 you can just spam over and over and you never get penalized for sqrewing up a move since you can do it again over and over and know you will get your force back basically instantly. Retarded. A skilled player such as myself is basically invincable with lightside on 0 regen.

2) Absorb + Protect at the same time (WTF LOL). When I first saw this I was laughing my ****ing ass off. As if their mod didn't already unbalance everything enough in favor of lightsiders, now they make this stock. For you newbies out there, in the base game you cannot absorb and protect at the same time (for damn good reasons). Thanks, newbie modders. This just goes to show how clueless these modders are.

3) Grapplehooks and Jetpacks. Rubbish. The JKA maps are so great. They have so many little tricks and movement tactics. These maps were never meant to be played with these cheats, and these cheats make them extremely retarded. Raven intended players to have to master skills like wall climbing and strafe jumping. They intended players to actually have to learn to navigate maps the legit way. By adding these cheats not only do you make everyone invincable in an FFA, but you totally ruin map navigation. Idiots.


There are tons of other ridiculous tweaks these newbs made to the out of the box game. Including tweaks to sabers and blocking. I don't really feel like getting into it, as I feel my above points clearly showed what morons these guys are.

razorace
12-29-2004, 12:09 PM
BUT WE'RE NOT BITTER.....NO!!

JediLiberator
12-29-2004, 12:39 PM
After all that's happened to MP mods in JA all I have to say is I am glad there are a few decent SP maps out there.

Kurgan
12-29-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
Hello folks,

Good 'ol c1 here just letting you know that I will be releasing the source code to the JA/JAR mods sometime soon. Be on the lookout at jk3files.com and at LucasFiles.com.

Regards,
-Mike

Uh oh...

Bad, bad idea. Isn't this the sort of thing that started this whole mess?

Or did people just blatantly rip-off code?

While I love the freedom of mod making in general, when it comes to admin mods, the less control individual users are given probably the better. They'll just add stupid crap to ruin the game. Let them do their own work and write their own stupid mods to ruin the game. That at least limits the spread of the disease.

Oh well, my 2 cents...

Maybe you should write up a "clause" in the agreement they have to accept to use it that they can't put in certain features like slap, sleep, slay, explode, bunny, etc.

Druid Allanon
12-30-2004, 12:27 AM
Let's face it, the number of RPG newbies who adore these mods made by Slider and Chosen are the majority of the JK community. Bah, it's useless trying to convince them that they're destroying the game. Countless threads have been made about these topics. :rolleyes: Recently I've decided to get better at guns, but with the majority of servers being saber-only, it's hard.

Maxstate
12-30-2004, 01:13 AM
What????

The SP code for JA????

[USA]-bLaSt
12-30-2004, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
1) 0 force regen. This is standard with their mod. The legit competitive setting determined by raven is and always has been (even in jk2) 200. By setting it to 0, it allows extreme spamming, and makes lightsiders all but invincable (on 0 regen you can heal 100 points every 5 seconds...LOL..newbies). Also, it removes all percision from the game. On legit settings every last move you make has to count. If you foul up a pull kick and miss, you will pay for it by losing precious force. In 0 you can just spam over and over and you never get penalized for sqrewing up a move since you can do it again over and over and know you will get your force back basically instantly. Retarded. A skilled player such as myself is basically invincable with lightside on 0 regen.

2) Absorb + Protect at the same time (WTF LOL). When I first saw this I was laughing my ****ing ass off. As if their mod didn't already unbalance everything enough in favor of lightsiders, now they make this stock. For you newbies out there, in the base game you cannot absorb and protect at the same time (for damn good reasons). Thanks, newbie modders. This just goes to show how clueless these modders are.

3) Grapplehooks and Jetpacks. Rubbish. The JKA maps are so great. They have so many little tricks and movement tactics. These maps were never meant to be played with these cheats, and these cheats make them extremely retarded. Raven intended players to have to master skills like wall climbing and strafe jumping. They intended players to actually have to learn to navigate maps the legit way. By adding these cheats not only do you make everyone invincable in an FFA, but you totally ruin map navigation. Idiots.


There are tons of other ridiculous tweaks these newbs made to the out of the box game. Including tweaks to sabers and blocking. I don't really feel like getting into it, as I feel my above points clearly showed what morons these guys are.

It shows something else too... <ahem>

I hate to rain on your parade (again) but your points here regarding JAR are patently false... 100% NOT TRUE.

I've been using JAR for a year so I know. When you install it EVERYTHING is BASE by default. You can't even enable Grapple hooks or jetpacks IF YOU WANTED TO... IT'S NOT IN THE MOD.

You can not tweak saber damages, you can not enable force hacks, you can not admin empower, it doesn't exist in JAR. IN FACT, you have FAR fewer configuration options than even xMod, and even FEWER abusive admin powers.

If you want to dog Slider I whole heartedly support you, I've tried JA+ briefly and it's a piece of crap specifically designed to cheat on every level, with a default install that changes EVERYTHING.

But, based on your remarks you probably have no experience with that MOD either... other than being on the receiving end of an admin empowered forcegrip amslay. :D

PS- Have I told you lately that I love you? :3heart:

mediablitz
12-30-2004, 09:09 AM
I thought that reloaded mod was just JA+ (sliders mod) with even more rpg emotes

razorace
12-30-2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Maxstate
The SP code for JA????

No, this is an admin mod series (first came in JKO) that just happened to have the same name as JKA.

Originally posted by mediablitz
I thought that reloaded mod was just JA+ (sliders mod) with even more rpg emotes

JA+ came after JA/JAR. JA/JAR were mainly admin mods only.

Amidala from Chop Shop
12-30-2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
I thought that reloaded mod was just JA+ (sliders mod) with even more rpg emotes

No, in fairness to Chosen One, it's slider's JA+ mod that has those problems that you listed. Chosen One made JA Reloaded for Jedi Academy as a follow-up to his Jedi Academy Mod for JK2. Realizing the damage that JA Mod for JK2 did to that game, he specifically removed the most abuse-prone commands from JA Reloaded, even though xMod2 and JA+ still had them. So Chosen One's JA Reloaded was the first JA mod to take out the amabuse commands. And it has never had jetpacks or grapplehooks.

After much nagging, Hex reluctantly took out the abusive commands from xMod2 and created auto-saber-off protection to take their place. slider saw his opportunity to be the only mod with amabuse commands (knowing how popular those commands are with "honor" fetishers and players who liked to amempower themselves) and the rest is history. In my opinion, JA Reloaded and xMod2 lost popularity by removing the amabuse commands (most "honor" type admins refuse to use a mod without amabuse commands) and JA+ became popular because slider kept and expanded the amabuse commands.

slider was also the one who had g_forceregentime 0 as default in the JA+ server.cfg, although to his credit he listened to feedback and changed the default value in the latest version to 50 and lists 200 as the basejka default value. Also to his credit, he is using the default value of 200 on his CTF server.

mediablitz
12-30-2004, 03:25 PM
His CTF server is a laughable attempt to show how his mod can be used competitively. The self-kill command is buggy and unreliable on that server, and protect+absorb at the same time is also enabled.

Zappa_0
12-30-2004, 04:20 PM
Its not the admin mods that kills the game, its the people the kill it. They just tired of it and leave to move on other games where people dont hollar lame 24/7. Admin mods are made to control the server from people who cause trouble. Some people dont get this idea, but instead acts like its game play itself. And theres even those admins that whine about the players telling them that people are doing certain things. If you have admin your there for a purpose not to just stand around and look pretty. If this JAR mod is gonna help any and make game play better, I welcome it and ever other mod that comes out.

mediablitz
12-30-2004, 07:03 PM
I take back what I said about JA reloaded, I assumed it was basically the same mod as JA+. I did a bit of looking into it, and it doesn't change the core settings of gameplay. However, my rant against ja+ is still completely valid of course.

[USA]-bLaSt
12-30-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by mediablitz
However, my rant against ja+ is still completely valid of course.

Right there with ya buddy... JA+ is a collection of the worst features of all MODs.

zERoCooL2479
12-30-2004, 08:23 PM
A little harsh there? No, the admin abuse commands arent in the code so don't worry about that. It' just has the core features for an admin mod if anyone wishes to take a crack at coding one. i.e. (kick, ban, sleep, nextmap, randteams, and a few others.) Although sleep may be considered as such, it's the least harmful.

RpTheHotrod
12-30-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by mediablitz
The core of the problem is this....every other FPS ever made on the Quake engine had a responsible mod making community, and a competitive minded player community. The modding community made mods to improve the competitive aspect of the game, which is what the players were looking for. This was not so in JK series. Modders like Slider (huge delerious newbies when it comes to the game) are quite clueless about the game from a competitive standpoint and were totally irresponsible in what content they added to their mod. They were totally unconcerned with the competitive aspect of the game, and instead catered to their own RPG desires. Their mods truly did ruin the gameplay of JKA on any competitive level whatsoever. Their mods are centered towards dumbing the game down for newbies, and giving bitter kiddie admins tools to take out their e-rage on superior players.

The mods made by Slider stand as the worst things ever to happen to this series from a competitive standpoint. They are complete clueless newbies. If you play on one of their mods, know that you are playing a mod made by someone without even the slightest understanding of game balance. If you are simply looking for a mod that will add JK2 style flip kicking without altering the core balance of the game, and still retaining all of the complex competitive aspects, get Xmod. Here are a few alterations to the basejka game which show the extreme newbishness of the creators of these mods:

1) 0 force regen. This is standard with their mod. The legit competitive setting determined by raven is and always has been (even in jk2) 200. By setting it to 0, it allows extreme spamming, and makes lightsiders all but invincable (on 0 regen you can heal 100 points every 5 seconds...LOL..newbies). Also, it removes all percision from the game. On legit settings every last move you make has to count. If you foul up a pull kick and miss, you will pay for it by losing precious force. In 0 you can just spam over and over and you never get penalized for sqrewing up a move since you can do it again over and over and know you will get your force back basically instantly. Retarded. A skilled player such as myself is basically invincable with lightside on 0 regen.

2) Absorb + Protect at the same time (WTF LOL). When I first saw this I was laughing my ****ing ass off. As if their mod didn't already unbalance everything enough in favor of lightsiders, now they make this stock. For you newbies out there, in the base game you cannot absorb and protect at the same time (for damn good reasons). Thanks, newbie modders. This just goes to show how clueless these modders are.

3) Grapplehooks and Jetpacks. Rubbish. The JKA maps are so great. They have so many little tricks and movement tactics. These maps were never meant to be played with these cheats, and these cheats make them extremely retarded. Raven intended players to have to master skills like wall climbing and strafe jumping. They intended players to actually have to learn to navigate maps the legit way. By adding these cheats not only do you make everyone invincable in an FFA, but you totally ruin map navigation. Idiots.


There are tons of other ridiculous tweaks these newbs made to the out of the box game. Including tweaks to sabers and blocking. I don't really feel like getting into it, as I feel my above points clearly showed what morons these guys are.


A-Freakin-Men

Seriously...slider ruined jka.

Prime
12-30-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by mediablitz
The modding community made mods to improve the competitive aspect of the game, which is what the players were looking for. But that obviously wasn't what the majority of JA players were looking for.

Originally posted by mediablitz
Their mods are centered towards dumbing the game down for newbies, and giving bitter kiddie admins tools to take out their e-rage on superior players. Which is apparently what 90+% of the player base wanted. Otherwise it wouldn't be on every ****ing server and you would encounter a lot more players who would actually *gasp* play the game.

Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
A little harsh there? You know what? Sadly it isn't. Admin mods ruined Jedi Academy.

Originally posted by Zappa_0
Its not the admin mods that kills the game, its the people the kill it. Maybe, but it was admin mods that it got clubbed with.

zERoCooL2479
12-31-2004, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by Prime
You know what? Sadly it isn't. Admin mods ruined Jedi Academy.

It wasn't my mod thats for sure. I don't give a damn about Slider, so bash him and his rehash POS mod for all I care.

FK | unnamed
01-02-2005, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
It wasn't my mod thats for sure. I don't give a damn about Slider, so bash him and his rehash POS mod for all I care.

Nah you just ****ed up Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast with your POS Vulcan's rehash.
And in turn, you pretty much gave birth to the whole admin mod scene/mess in these two games.
How so?
Fact: most jk2/ja server admins were morons who could not (nor ever did) figure out the base quake 3 engine console/rcon commands.

Doubt that?
Go find me 5 server admins who know how to ban in base jk2/ja.
You will be looking for years.

How do you fit into this?
You took the Vulcan's admin mod (I was not a big fan of this, but it was complicated enough that only 2 out of 10 star wars nerd server admins could figure it out and hence, it was not a really big grief issue for us players) and made it pretty much point and click "soccer mom on AOL" user friendly.

Actually, didn't you put in something stupid like a point and click "admin gun" or something at one point?

How the hell could you not see how making a mod that allowed for 900 admins (by using the sub admin system and not having to give out true rcon) and gave them the ability to slap/sleep/choke/explode/kick/ban players with simple "/kickban" commands not cause problems?

Of course you saw it, but you wanted to make a name for yourself as a mod maker and did not give a **** about what you did to the community.

just as long as your mod had the highest download count over there at jk2files.com right?


Hence the reason why everyone who bought either of these games with the intention of actually getting to play them online, will look at you now and forever... as a dildo.

Prime
01-02-2005, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Fact: most jk2/ja server admins were morons who could not (nor ever did) figure out the base quake 3 engine console/rcon commands. Which is all they should need in the first place.

zERoCooL2479
01-03-2005, 04:42 PM
moo!

shukrallah
01-09-2005, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by JediLiberator
After all that's happened to MP mods in JA all I have to say is I am glad there are a few decent SP maps out there.

Wow, encoraging! Ive got an SP mod in the works, that I think the whole community would enjoy.


In my opinion, even mods like Xmod, or JAR shouldn't have ever been made. They are not nessesarily bad, but BaseJKA was cool enough. Force mod was cool, but it wasn't serverside only, so that just added a little variety. Stuff like Xmod, JAR, and JA+ were serverside only, so you could join one and not even know it. It gave to many options to admins to control the gameplay, which made server hopping kinda annoying, with different settings on every server. You could never adjust to the game properly.

Before the game could pickup, it had trouble because a few short months after release a lot of people threw in the towel, because of mods like JA +. Wasn't it 24 hours after the SDK came out that the first Admin mods came out?

mediablitz
01-09-2005, 10:44 PM
basejka sucks. sorry to rain on your parade. horrible and sloppy hit detection, dumbed down gameplay, removal of classic jk2 moves, and insane random damage (75 point damage saber throws...lol). Xmod truly did fix all of this.

Nokill
01-09-2005, 10:50 PM
*plays jk2 the only good jk game there is (DF is also good) ;) *

shukrallah
01-10-2005, 01:14 PM
But the game isn't JK2, its JKA, so of course they won't be the same. :rolleyes:

Let me ask, if someone throws a saber at you, would you still be living? No, so... therefore in my opinion, its ok to lose 75% of my health if I get hit.

razorace
01-10-2005, 01:29 PM
I think it's pretty ironic when kick spamming (which was hated during the JK2 days) is now called a "classic" move.

mediablitz
01-10-2005, 02:08 PM
I think it's pretty ironic when kick spamming (which was hated during the JK2 days) is now called a "classic" move.

It was only hated by newbies like you.

But the game isn't JK2, its JKA, so of course they won't be the same.

uh, it's basically the exact same game only with sloppier coding and less moves/depth



Let me ask, if someone throws a saber at you, would you still be living? No, so... therefore in my opinion, its ok to lose 75% of my health if I get hit.

lol. You don't understand my point. The damage on saber throw is totally random in basejka....in jk2 it was a solid 30. JKA adds too much luck into the game.

razorace
01-10-2005, 05:35 PM
It was only hated by newbies like you.Of course, you'd know because you only signed up in July of 2004. :rolleyes:

uh, it's basically the exact same game only with sloppier coding and less moves/depthActually, the saber hit detection issues are related to some code hacks that Raven removed. The JK2 system was based around incredibly large saber bounding boxes that resulted in saber blocks.

Rumor
01-10-2005, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Of course, you'd know because you only signed up in July of 2004. :rolleyes:


And registering on this forum automatically determines how long you've played the game. *HINT* *HINT* This isn't his first account on these forums, nor is the account i'm posting on my first on these forums.


Actually, the saber hit detection issues are related to some code hacks that Raven removed. The JK2 system was based around incredibly large saber bounding boxes that resulted in saber blocks.

Pull at straws more, please. That wasn't exactly what he was referring to.

Nokill
01-10-2005, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
But the game isn't JK2, its JKA, so of course they won't be the same. :rolleyes:

Let me ask, if someone throws a saber at you, would you still be living? No, so... therefore in my opinion, its ok to lose 75% of my health if I get hit.

in jk2 you can block it like a real jedi in jka you kill 50 jedi's whit one hit if your a litle lucky ;)

mediablitz
01-10-2005, 10:54 PM
razor newbie, go practice your bowing on the pad on ffa_bespin

El Sitherino
01-10-2005, 11:27 PM
mediablitz, knock it off.

Alright everyone, this is a request that you try to keep the instigating remarks down.

mediablitz
01-11-2005, 12:46 AM
InsaneSith newbie, how about you suck me? Go pull your moderator power trips on someone else

El Sitherino
01-11-2005, 12:57 AM
listen, I know you have some severe self-esteem issues, but you don't have to take them out on other people. Apologize for your rudeness.

Druid Allanon
01-11-2005, 01:03 AM
mediablitz, just because someone don't like kick doesn't mean they are newbies. Now come to think of it, kick wasn't meant to be in the game, why else did Raven remove it in JA? Before you call me newbie, I was quite disappointed myself when Raven removed the kicks; I like grip kicking too. :)

Rogue Nine
01-11-2005, 01:12 AM
mediablitz, you're obviously a very opinionated person. That's fine. They are your thoughts and you are welcome to have them and share them. However, this does not give you license to insult those who do not share your opinions. Just because someone thinks differently than you does not make their opinions any less valid than yours. So please shape up and learn to respect others.

mediablitz
01-11-2005, 01:34 AM
They took kick out in jka because super newbies complained about it so much. It's beyond retarded to say it "wasn't meant to be in the game" if you mean jk2. If you mean jka, of course it wasn't meant to be in jka. but it was in jk2 from start to finish. removing kick basically made half the gametypes unplayable. Full force saber only anything is totally unplayable in basejka. It's impossible to kill even a slightly skilled player in such a manner. Raven were clearly not thinking past pleasing their darth maul wannabe player base when they removed kick.

Apologize for your rudeness.

No

They are your thoughts and you are welcome to have them and share them.

Unless my opinion is that someone is a clueless newbie?



Just because someone thinks differently than you does not make their opinions any less valid than yours.

That statement is too broad, i'm afraid. If you had the opinion that a monkey who takes a crap on a sheet is a greater artist than Picasso your opinion would clearly be ludicrous

So please shape up and learn to respect others.

I am shaping up. I am pentagon, which side am I going to be on?
This is a forum for a video game. Therefore, the only way I can judge any member of this board is by their opinions and statements regarding this game. You can't force me to show respect to people who I consider to be clueless newbies. All you can do is ban me yet again.

Rogue Nine
01-11-2005, 01:40 AM
Okay.

Amidala from Chop Shop
01-11-2005, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Druid Allanon
Now come to think of it, kick wasn't meant to be in the game, why else did Raven remove it in JA?

I am guessing they removed flipkicks because it interfered with wallrunning.

When earlier versions of xmod and JA+ came out with both wall running and flipkicks, the CTF gunners on my server complained a lot about the change in wallrunning vs. basejka. It was subtle but it bothered a lot of them. Hex looked at the code and made a change in later versions of xmod so the same speed of double-tap jump against a person did a flipkick, while against a wall it let you wallrun. It seemed to fix it because players didn't complain about it after that change was made. slider has announced that he has "fixed" wallrunning in the newest version of JA+ as well, and I haven't heard any complaints about wallrunning from people who play on his server as well as mine and Refresh\PickUpGamez.

I am guessing that Raven probably found the same thing during their testing and they decided to drop flipkicks in favor of wall running.

fk.egoslavia
01-11-2005, 02:02 AM
Kicking was in the leaked beta. But it did some really weird things, like wallrunning up people when you were trying to kick them. That's a decent theory I suppose.

Druid Allanon
01-11-2005, 04:53 AM
*sigh* Kicking added to the dimension of full force duel. Without kicking all we'd be doing for FF is just spam saber pull throw. =/

El Sitherino
01-11-2005, 05:00 AM
I personally like the new kick they added to JA.

Nokill
01-11-2005, 05:49 AM
yes its nice only i yust like the real saber fighting more
if thay also made the forces better i woud use them to

razorace
01-11-2005, 10:04 AM
Pull at straws more, please. That wasn't exactly what he was referring to.

So, other than the hit detection, what was he referring too?

Astrotoy7
01-11-2005, 08:31 PM
what ! I dont understand what all the aggravation is about I cant believe people are actually still interested in JO/JA... old ugly girflriends the pair o 'em, the only reason you gave em a go was because you were terribly drunk or stoned :D

carry on !

mtfbwya

Druid Allanon
01-11-2005, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
I personally like the new kick they added to JA.

I don't remember seeing any new kick in JA... unless you mean the staff kick? LOL

Prime
01-12-2005, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by mediablitz
Raven were clearly not thinking past pleasing their darth maul wannabe player base when they removed kick. Which was a smart move, considering that is probably about 90% of their market.

Originally posted by Druid Allanon
I don't remember seeing any new kick in JA... unless you mean the staff kick? LOL But it is a new kick. :)

El Sitherino
01-12-2005, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Druid Allanon
I don't remember seeing any new kick in JA... unless you mean the staff kick? LOL yes. That would be it.

El Sitherino
01-12-2005, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Prime
Which was a smart move, considering that is probably about 90% of their market.
interesting since many people did kicks because "dude, darth maul kicked and saber'd the hell out of qui-gon and obi"

shukrallah
01-12-2005, 03:30 PM
I am guessing they removed flipkicks because it interfered with wallrunning.

When earlier versions of xmod and JA+ came out with both wall running and flipkicks, the CTF gunners on my server complained a lot about the change in wallrunning vs. basejka. It was subtle but it bothered a lot of them. Hex looked at the code and made a change in later versions of xmod so the same speed of double-tap jump against a person did a flipkick, while against a wall it let you wallrun. It seemed to fix it because players didn't complain about it after that change was made. slider has announced that he has "fixed" wallrunning in the newest version of JA+ as well, and I haven't heard any complaints about wallrunning from people who play on his server as well as mine and Refresh\PickUpGamez.

I am guessing that Raven probably found the same thing during their testing and they decided to drop flipkicks in favor of wall running.

While that may be a factor, I think that the kick flip was removed because of the addition of the staff kick. Now, only staffers can kick, so, whats the point of adding the staff kick, if everyone else can kick flip? Theres no use for it. Not to mention, the staff kick is a "kick" unlike the kick flip which is just walking up the other dudes face.

img.mediablitz
01-13-2005, 06:57 AM
Could you be any more clueless? InsaneSith, you are clearly a rampaging newbie who has no business discussing JK series gameplay. You are a rube. A plebeian blockhead yokel. Shine my shoes and put my french fries in the box, don't try to debate jedi knight series with me.

lukeskywalker1, you are a bewildered bumpkin. A churl and a clodhopper. Go act out scenes from the movies with your plastic lightsaber or something.

El Sitherino
01-13-2005, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by img.mediablitz
Could you be any more clueless? InsaneSith, you are clearly a rampaging newbie who has no business discussing JK series gameplay. You are a rube. A plebeian blockhead yokel. Shine my shoes and put my french fries in the box, don't try to debate jedi knight series with me.
Clearly something about me makes you jealous.

And how am I trying to debate the Jedi Knight series with you? I never even talked about the series in any of my posts that were directed towards you. Now go back to your little FK clan forum and continue with your childish whining there.

img.mediablitz
01-13-2005, 07:25 AM
It's the height of delusion to read a whole paragraph where I am disparaging your intelligence and questioning your ability to aid society on any meaningful level, and then determine that I am jealous of you. But no matter. Whatever gets you through the night is alright.

Rumor
01-13-2005, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by razorace
So, other than the hit detection, what was he referring too?

Maybe I'm stretching a little bit, but I think you should be able to figure that out, since your powers of deduction are superb.

razorace
01-13-2005, 09:05 AM
I have my own opinions on the subject, I just wanted to hear his/your definition of it.

As for mediablitz, isn't this that the second ban as in as many days? Shouldn't he just be IP banned?

InfErnO
01-15-2005, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Of course, you'd know because you only signed up in July of 2004.

I singned up in March of 1999. So bow down padawan learner. I am your master.

razorace
01-15-2005, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by InfErnO
I singned up in March of 1999. So bow down padawan learner. I am your master.

Your powers are weak old man. You should not have come back.

JediLiberator
01-15-2005, 08:05 PM
the only reason flip kicks sucked in JO is that there's no offensive counter for them. If you are allowed to kick me I should be allowed to chop your feet off. Fair is fair...
Besides, what is the point of having moves and tactics that are unbeatable all the time? Doesn't that render every victory you have irrelevant?
I for one am glad they removed it. The problem I have with the saber system is that the movements for dual sabers and the double bladed saber are either poorly animated or downright ridiculous for a real fight. The butterfly would be a key example of this.
(on a tangent note, who the f*** would name a move that can kill you after a harmless insect?!
"Oh yeah and we'll call it the butterfly! muahahahahaha!"
"Uh ok boss, just go take your pills now alright?") :rolleyes:

BigDJedi
01-15-2005, 09:17 PM
LOL u r right jediliberator i no that and u no that but sum dunt u no????? wo t r peeps think wen tey say i like teh kik but thy not as good as think they r :p :p :p i play game 4 true honor rpg saber battlez not 2 kick :D :D kik made so i wuld get ownd and that wuz lame

BigDJedi
01-15-2005, 09:19 PM
if sumthing ownz me it shuld be taken out so it good that kik wuz removed cuz now i ownz :D :D :D

BigDJedi
01-15-2005, 09:20 PM
:p

:p

:atat:

:deathii:

:biggs:
:D

INFERNOJHC
01-16-2005, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by JediLiberator
the only reason flip kicks sucked in JO is that there's no offensive counter for them.

Actually, there is an offensive counter, it's called flip kick. ;)

razorace
01-16-2005, 11:56 AM
uh oh. Check it out. InfErnO's post count and register date is aging in reverse.

INFERNOJHC
01-16-2005, 12:28 PM
Hehe, it's unique. I didn't post for a while with this account. I guess the original count was set to 0. Switched to InfErnO after JHC disbanded. Funny ****.

RpTheHotrod
01-16-2005, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by JediLiberator

(on a tangent note, who the f*** would name a move that can kill you after a harmless insect?!
"Oh yeah and we'll call it the butterfly! muahahahahaha!"
"Uh ok boss, just go take your pills now alright?") :rolleyes:


Because of the person's motion...it's a figure 8 type thing....or a butterfly.

BigDJedi
01-16-2005, 06:30 PM
:D :D :D :D :D :p

Rumor
01-18-2005, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by JediLiberator
the only reason flip kicks sucked in JO is that there's no offensive counter for them. If you are allowed to kick me I should be allowed to chop your feet off. Fair is fair...
Besides, what is the point of having moves and tactics that are unbeatable all the time? Doesn't that render every victory you have irrelevant?
I for one am glad they removed it. The problem I have with the saber system is that the movements for dual sabers and the double bladed saber are either poorly animated or downright ridiculous for a real fight. The butterfly would be a key example of this.
(on a tangent note, who the f*** would name a move that can kill you after a harmless insect?!
"Oh yeah and we'll call it the butterfly! muahahahahaha!"
"Uh ok boss, just go take your pills now alright?") :rolleyes:

There are dozens of counters to the kick in jo...another kick, side kicks, lunge, dfa, overhead, red dfa, push, pull, etc. Just because you haven't thought of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Dostoyevsky
01-20-2005, 03:56 AM
newbies don't think, they just complain and beg for nerfing. If it ruins their star wars saber dueling fantasies, they want nothing to do with it

Kurgan
01-24-2005, 11:27 AM
Fine, but did you really need a half dozen accounts to say as much?

Kurgan
01-24-2005, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
No, in fairness to Chosen One, it's slider's JA+ mod that has those problems that you listed. Chosen One made JA Reloaded for Jedi Academy as a follow-up to his Jedi Academy Mod for JK2. Realizing the damage that JA Mod for JK2 did to that game, he specifically removed the most abuse-prone commands from JA Reloaded, even though xMod2 and JA+ still had them. So Chosen One's JA Reloaded was the first JA mod to take out the amabuse commands. And it has never had jetpacks or grapplehooks.

After much nagging, Hex reluctantly took out the abusive commands from xMod2 and created auto-saber-off protection to take their place. slider saw his opportunity to be the only mod with amabuse commands (knowing how popular those commands are with "honor" fetishers and players who liked to amempower themselves) and the rest is history. In my opinion, JA Reloaded and xMod2 lost popularity by removing the amabuse commands (most "honor" type admins refuse to use a mod without amabuse commands) and JA+ became popular because slider kept and expanded the amabuse commands.

slider was also the one who had g_forceregentime 0 as default in the JA+ server.cfg, although to his credit he listened to feedback and changed the default value in the latest version to 50 and lists 200 as the basejka default value. Also to his credit, he is using the default value of 200 on his CTF server.

Interesting. But, I think the whole "popularity of amabuse" thing is directly related to the "honor" mentality, which has been a hard habit to break in these communities.

In JK2, the honor mentality took over shortly after the game came out, and is still in full force. Most servers are playing FFA with sabers only and full force using one of several admin mods (though Jedi Academy mod is the most popular) telling me that most people are into "Honor dueling" in that community now.

JA on the other hand still has a significant number of servers that are not like this. Most games are still FFA, but have all weapons. About half the servers are using some version of JA+ though, so that really bites.

It's because Slider has been able to seize on the notion, promoted by the "hon0rz" community that the game isn't "safe" to play, because of "lamers" (ie: those who will try to disruptor honorable saber challenges in FFA).

Without an "admin mod" (the name even makes it sound like you NEED one to be an admin), they think, one cannot even have a game, because someone will try to ruin it by not waiting in line for a saber challenge like you're "supposed to."

Yeah, we've heard this speech a million times, and I've heard it from you too Amidala, not meaning to do any soap boxing, just reciting the summurary of that story.

Hex removed his amabuse commands for awhile, because they were now irrelevant with his "auto honor" system. The trouble is that he back peddalled because he thought that the unpopularity of his mod (despite it's obviously superior quality to mods like JA+) was due to his having removed the abusive commands. So in a sense he 'sold out' thinking that if he appealed to this lowest common denominator his mod would achieve the popularity of Slider's.

Sadly, this didn't happen. After a few months of having the commands back, the number of Xmod2 servers had not significantly increased. So really, all we can say right now is that JA+ mod is simply ingrained in the community, and even some rental servers provide JA+ automatically, as if it's an official patch. It's quite sad.

Will Hex fix his mod? Has he? I dunno. I was holding out hope for awhile, but now that OJP is shaping up to be a good mod for hosting Siege (without altering gameplay), I'm beginning to not really care what he does. Slider is the one who could change everything he he simply removed the commands and put out a statement that he doesn't want people adding them back into his source. Now there's still the problem of Slider dumping every "kewl" feature he can think of into his mod without regard to balance or competition, but still, at least the biggest glut of honorz abuse would be eliminated.

Now as to the "safeness" of the game, I could give a flying, you-know-what about "honorz" but when it comes to Siege, there are a few exploits and the lack of bots that are addressed by OJP mod, which is why I use that. But there is really no credible excuse to have amabuse anymore, except Slider's stubborness and general ignorance (and of course the odd person who likes to abuse people who visit his server until they "bow" to him).

To put things a bit in perspective, on the average it seems there are about 2 players for every server out there for JA. Now I don't know if many of these servers's admins actually play on their own servers (I'm guessing so, at least the JA+ ones), but if that were true, it would say that roughly 1 out of every 2 JA players on at any given time is an admin. And 50% of those admins have decided to use JA+ mod.*

So it's kind of like (I'm tired, but I think this works out), 25% of JA players have decided for the rest of us how we're going to play the game. Now you say, that is the admin's perrogative right? They foot the bill for the server, they should run things their way. But to say that the entire community sucks because of the actions of a few? It's just that most players can't afford to host their own dedicated server, and so they're forced to put up with the entrenched JA+ loving admin community.

*Obviously I'm only talking about those who are on at any given time. People rotate their sleep cycles, work shifts, school schedules, etc. If you're up late in the USA playing with Aussies, etc. I'm not saying there are only 1000 JA players. Rather at any given time on a day that you fire up your browser of choice, that's what you're going to find. while the players rotate around, the servers generally stay the same, so it may be even fewer people who actually use JA+, but they force more people to use it, since you can only choose the servers based on ping with your region.

*Goes back into "Force Long Posters Anonymous" Re-hab...*

acdcfanbill
01-24-2005, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan

So it's kind of like (I'm tired, but I think this works out), 25% of JA players have decided for the rest of us how we're going to play the game. Now you say, that is the admin's perrogative right? They foot the bill for the server, they should run things their way. But to say that the entire community sucks because of the actions of a few? It's just that most players can't afford to host their own dedicated server, and so they're forced to put up with the entrenched JA+ loving admin community.


but now that those 25% have driven the other ~75% out, they are the majority... yay! :(

Kurgan
01-24-2005, 01:30 PM
We'll they're not the majority (even as admins they are only half the admin community), but they effectively wield the power in the community, since they run the servers.

So half the servers out there, like it or not, run some version of JA+, meaning they have abusive powers and balancing issues. The number of servers running non-JA+ mods that change gameplay is rather small, at least last time I checked. So you have about half the servers running no "mod" at all (browsers like ASE can't detect things like skins or bot routes, it only detects code mods, like the ones we've been discussing, and I'm not even talking custom maps either).

shukrallah
01-24-2005, 05:42 PM
I think your wrong about 50% being JA+... JA+ is about 75% of the servers. Then there might be 20% X-Mod or something like that.

Out of a few hundred severs, I would normally switch to BaseJKA (the switch at the top of the server list) and there might be 10 with players. Maybe 30 total, but who wants to play on an empty server?

And considering Honor N00bs normally just pick any random server, they sometimes land in the baseJKA server your on... and start trouble. Yes... trouble.

Im no exception, because I'll join honor servers just to attack em. There was this one in particular, got kick/banned out of there several times, but the next day they removed the ban. But thats beside the point. The point is, we have 10 possible servers to use. There was always one with about 10 people on it. The rest jumped from 2 -7 people. Playing with 2 people on those huge maps wasn't fun. You need at least 5, but when half the servers that I am willing to join have less than 5 players... your out of luck.

3ra1n1ac
01-24-2005, 09:18 PM
Fine, but did you really need a half dozen accounts to say as much?

Yes, when I keep getting banned over and over for no reason. The humanity...the injustice.

El Sitherino
01-24-2005, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by 3ra1n1ac
I keep getting banned over and over for no reason. :rofl: you make me laugh. But yet you fail.

razorace
01-24-2005, 09:47 PM
Why can't you IP ban him?

El Sitherino
01-24-2005, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Why can't you IP ban him? Ask Kurgan.

Prime
01-25-2005, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Why can't you IP ban him? And give up the brilliant comments and hilarity? Oh wait, we get none of that...

Ban him. :)

Kurgan
01-26-2005, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
Ask Kurgan.

Too lazy... oh.. whut?

Okay, fine!

mediablitz:
Seriously, people don't get banned here for no reason (well, most of the time not!), so if you'd behave yourself maybe you'd stick around longer... just put in your time and you can come back. But the more you be a jerk about it, the less happy we are to forget it.

That makes sense I hope...

Amidala from Chop Shop
01-27-2005, 08:41 AM
mediablitz owns. Without him this place would be pretty dull.

You know the saying: "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer". Make him a Moderator.

Rumor
01-27-2005, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
mediablitz owns. Without him this place would be pretty dull.

You know the saying: "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer". Make him a Moderator.

hahahaha

INFERNOJHC
01-28-2005, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by razorace
Why can't you IP ban him?

Do you know what a proxy is?

shukrallah
01-30-2005, 03:17 PM
So, did Chosen ever release the source, or not?

orion2486
01-31-2005, 12:22 PM
Code is going to be release after I get Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.4 out, which is this week.

Kurgan
01-31-2005, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
I think your wrong about 50% being JA+... JA+ is about 75% of the servers. Then there might be 20% X-Mod or something like that.

I'm basing my assumptions on day-to-day viewings of ASE (All Seeing Eye, a server browser) for JA (note: I don't have any servers "cached" these are all "new lists") randomly and over the course of a week. Your findings might be different.

Out of a few hundred severs, I would normally switch to BaseJKA (the switch at the top of the server list) and there might be 10 with players. Maybe 30 total, but who wants to play on an empty server?

Nobody wants to play on an empty server, though it is perfectly logical to do so, since once people "see" that there is somebody there, the chances increase that someone will join, and the odds continue to increase the more people that are there, that more will join, until it's full. That's why having bots with non-standard names help a lot to get your server full. ; )

And considering Honor N00bs normally just pick any random server, they sometimes land in the baseJKA server your on... and start trouble. Yes... trouble.

So far running my Siege server again I've gotten no honor noobs, period. I've gotten a few folks whining about the lag, and a few folks demanding that I lower the force regen time, and one guy complaining that "if this were JK2 I'd have won" but otherwise it's pretty much been problem free. Even a guy who yelled at me that my server was "gay" rejoined within a few minutes and continued to play for a long time. ; )

It could be that this is a Siege server, that automatically cuts down on the honorz type people who would try to join it, but still.

I wonder, do honorz people do this (the opposite of what I do), LOOK for a JA+ server and then assume it's going to be "Honorable" and join?

TK-8252
01-31-2005, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Kurgan
It could be that this is a Siege server, that automatically cuts down on the honorz type people who would try to join it, but still.

They don't join Siege because remember, guns take no skill. :p

Originally posted by Kurgan
I wonder, do honorz people do this (the opposite of what I do), LOOK for a JA+ server and then assume it's going to be "Honorable" and join?

No, because they think that JA+ is standard. Like you said, even server rentals come with JA+ already set up. Whenever they join a non-JA+ server they instantly start whining "wtf, no jetpacks or grapples, so ghey", etc.

shukrallah
01-31-2005, 03:31 PM
Kurgan, what are your online names? Can you also list bot names?

Kurgan
02-01-2005, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Kurgan, what are your online names? Can you also list bot names?

I use "Kurgan" unless I'm undercover. So I'm not at liberty to reveal any "other" names I might use. ; )

As to the bot names, that would take too long, because OJP has a ton of custom bots. Likewise there's a few bots I've created, plus the DDS-Ibots I often use...

Suffice to say, they are LEGION!


'Amen,' to what TK said too. ;)

[HR]Knight
02-10-2005, 02:12 PM
I wish slider tried to post to defend his mod, he would lose, he knows how crappy it is.

shukrallah
02-10-2005, 05:14 PM
The reason I ask Kurgan is because some dude said he was the server. When Ive played you, that I know of, your name is Kurgan. If your undercover, then... why would tell people your the server. It may have just been some random n00b... who knows, who cares. Check your log, lol.

I agree 100% [HR]Knight, but I doubt Slider will ever come to LucasForums again... Im just happy LF isn't filled with a bunch of honor players. When honor players do come they don't stick around for long.

Kurgan
02-10-2005, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
The reason I ask Kurgan is because some dude said he was the server. When Ive played you, that I know of, your name is Kurgan. If your undercover, then... why would tell people your the server. It may have just been some random n00b... who knows, who cares. Check your log, lol.

I agree 100% [HR]Knight, but I doubt Slider will ever come to LucasForums again... Im just happy LF isn't filled with a bunch of honor players. When honor players do come they don't stick around for long.

Well if you're in my server (Meatgrinder) and you see some text appear at the top of the screen:

server: <text here>

Then you KNOW that the "server" is talking. Ie: if an admin is hosting a dedicated server on his machine and he types some text into the dedicated server window, that's what people see in-game. "server: " and the text. It's in white too IIRC.

Of course there are other ways to do this too, like through ASE or through a web panel. But, the only person who can use this is the person with the admin password, and where my server is concerned this is ONLY me. So you can pretty much be assured that if the "server" is talking, it's me.

Anybody could theoretically join and claim to be "the server" but only I can actually use the server panel thingy. Or I can prove it to you in other ways by kicking people or changing settings, etc. ; )

shukrallah
02-11-2005, 07:31 PM
Well, this was a player. I guess it doesn't matter. His ping was like 150 or something. Normally servers have around 0- 20 ping.

Kurgan
02-13-2005, 08:49 PM
True enough for servers hosted on the same machine as the person playing (which is how mine is now).

When I had my rental server I got pings anywhere from 100-150 on "my" server.

Kurgan
02-15-2005, 03:25 AM
Since the original question was answered and we've gone way off topic, I think it's time to close this one...