PDA

View Full Version : Jedi: What role will they play if any!!


FroZticles
01-05-2005, 02:14 PM
Since the RTS is set when most of the Republic Jedi are all dead. Some might be alive but if they reveal themselves will be struck down by Vader.

What do you think/hope Jedi will play in this new RTS?

OverlordAngelus
01-05-2005, 03:48 PM
Maybe every time the player attacks a planet, there is a random chance of finding a Jedi.

When playing as the Rebels, the Jedi could come out of hiding to help. They would be fairly powerful but if the player uses him too much, it might attract the attention of Darth Vader, who would bring massive reinforcements with him.

When playing as the Empire, the Jedi wouldn't be visible but if you suspect that a Jedi is causing you trouble, you can summon Darth Vader. However if you do that and there's no Jedi present, he won't be too pleased with you...

FroZticles
01-05-2005, 05:56 PM
Why would a Jedi come out of hiding and put themselves at risk?

Maybe give them the ability to disguise themselves on the map. But if Vader or Palpatine get close enough he is revealed and a duel breaks out?

BeBop
01-05-2005, 06:18 PM
Disquise is an interesting idea. After all luke wore trooper armor, Obi-Wan wore Clone armor in the Clone Wars Mini Series. Though once they pull out their lightsaber.. it's given away. It's possible that Jedi will be in the game. As was stated there is a little Episode III crossover. Whos to say that some of the game doesn't occur when the remaining Jedi are being hunted down.

Pho3nix
01-06-2005, 02:20 AM
Well, probably the same as in Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds. They will act the role of "priests" they can convert units and heal etc.

FroZticles
01-06-2005, 04:13 AM
For the sake of realism and gameplay I hope not. They did not heal in SWGB.

Maybe they give leadership bonuses and give guideance to there army. So a Jedi disguised as a rebel trooper would give his surrounding troops a bonus. They would have increased attack and defences. They could also be a flexible unit becoming anything such as a pilot, troop, or commando. I was thinking perhaps the spy system in RA2 where you clicked on a unit and he turned into it. He could also cross over to the enemy lines and influence the enemies troops to have poor aim and decrease there stats. Of course disguising himself as a stormtrooper.

They would have to add a system in where detectability would be a factor a special bar on the Jedi where if it reaches 100% he is detected and the bar would also lower itself over time. If he/she used a Jedi power in front of enemies or used his powers to much and Vader senses it, it gives your enemy to the ability to call Vader to destroy the Jedi. Vader would be on a timer like 2 minutes to kill him and the player with the Jedi would not be warned unless they saw there bar hit 100% or they see Vader/enemy units coming to own your Jedi otherwise it would decrease like normal. (Vader would be able to see the Jedi anywhere on the map). Once the Jedi dies a bonus or resources would be given even if it is not Vader who kills him but he must be detected as a Jedi first before any bonus or credits would be given because otherwise it would just look like another regular unit has fallen.

Example: using a power like stealth or force speed would keep driving your detect bar up until you hit 100% but if you stop using it before it maxes out, it will lower in time. A power like push or convert would just take it up to 50% each time you use it if there are enemy witnesses you have a short window to mind trick them before Vader is immediately available. This would also limit power spamming and have players wary that there Jedi is not a super unit because you have to keep watch or your enemy will have Vader in there control.

Ranks for your Jedi would also be a factor since it is set where there is no Jedi training or anything a Jedi learns things for himself. I don't know the names of the ranks or if they would just use rank 1-10 or 1-5 or 1-3. The higher rank you are the more chance at once Vader comes to duel you the better chance you have at striking him down. Unless you want to back your Jedi up with a full Rebel strike team but I'm sure they could find ways to make it once Vader approaches the Jedi that only they will be dueling with no outside interference.

Naming your Jedi in the game would be kind of cool. Just a nice feature since his name would not be Jedi. They could also use a random system generation. Gender and species would be random also but human would have a better chance at popping up then lets say zabrak.

Also what would a Jedi be without his Light Saber. Although pulling this out in front of enemies would not be the wisest thing to do but if Vader is alerted to your presence all is fair and the robe is put on the saber is ignited and yes folks the saber duel commences. I have no idea what would happen if Vader is killed maybe the Jedi unlocks a rank that can only be gained through killing Vader or Palpatine shows up blasts the Jedi to hell. We can speculate on what would happen if Vader is killed.....


Just an idea hope you like. If you don't want to read it fine I just went typing crazy.....

Nokill
01-06-2005, 04:49 AM
thay will hopefully not play a role jedi's are not nice in games like these :(

Prime
01-06-2005, 06:19 AM
I hope there are no Jedi in this game.

Fishflesh
01-06-2005, 07:24 AM
if jedi are in game thay will probly act like hero's whit some unlike
abilities , like in BFME... palpy would have lightning and darth vader would have force grip/leadership for exsample.

lukeiamyourdad
01-06-2005, 07:47 AM
You'll probably have heroes that are Jedi. As for buildable or recruitable Jedi, I'd rather they didn't exist at all since the context permits it.

FroZticles
01-06-2005, 02:59 PM
Jedi would be hard to get since they are extremely rare in this timeframe. I don't want buildable Jedi either but I'm sure they will smuggle Jedi in the game somehow.

Prime
01-07-2005, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by FroZticles
Jedi would be hard to get since they are extremely rare in this timeframe. That's what they said about Galaxies! And look at what happened to that. :)

lukeiamyourdad
01-07-2005, 08:05 AM
Well the situation of an RTS is way different. If balanced correctly, you can't spam them.

Galaxies is another story. Jedi are uber warriors that everyone wanted to be. Besides, this is a game that's going to be made by former Westwood employees, not the people who rammed EQ and SWG into the ground.

FroZticles
01-07-2005, 02:09 PM
Don't even get me started on Galaxies :rolleyes:

darthfergie
01-07-2005, 04:23 PM
lol, SWG...

hmmm...well...I definitely agree with you guys. Having Jedi as trainable units was just odd anyway, I'd rather them not play a MAJOR MAJOR role.
In fact I'd rather see as few as possible...and those only as hero units.
A Darth Vader here, and an Obi-Wan there...etc

Prime
01-08-2005, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Well the situation of an RTS is way different. Of course. But in any event, I just wish they would just leave the Jedi out of OT era games altogether.

FroZticles
01-08-2005, 01:54 PM
Jedi still exist in the OT but you just don't see them except for Yoda and Obi-Wan. If those 2 can survive with no problems I'm sure others would have as well.

DK_Viceroy
01-08-2005, 03:17 PM
It's not impossible and we've all sen how "effective" the empire is at crushing rebellious groups don't we :rolleyes: I mean Endor was a shining example of how effective they are at it

Alegis
01-08-2005, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Of course. But in any event, I just wish they would just leave the Jedi out of OT era games altogether.
Exactly. It's FULL with jedi in the clone wars, but no other jedi in OT than Luke, Obi and Yoda on the screen.

Though I probably guess each side will have one hero, vader and luke. A special unit with lots of HP

FroZticles
01-09-2005, 12:51 AM
It is still possible for other Jedi to exist in the OT besides the ones we saw in the films. They said that Vader was the only one in the galaxy left with the knowledge of the force but Yoda had managed to slip under the radar and not get killed.

OverlordAngelus
01-09-2005, 07:33 AM
Maybe they can include Jedi characters to be used in the scenario editor (like the various extra characters included with gb) but not the main campaign.

FroZticles
01-09-2005, 03:00 PM
Well it all depends on who we see die in RotS.

lukeiamyourdad
01-09-2005, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by FroZticles
Well it all depends on who we see die in RotS.

Well everyone except the Jedi in the OT. Or the serie will face a massive continuity error.

Ranre
01-09-2005, 05:47 PM
I think that it might be too big of hassle to have Jedi in this game.

First thing if your the Imps and you find a jedi he better be very powerful or he'd die very quickly.

How ever if your the rebels then it might be too big of deal to have the Imps attacking your jedi.

FroZticles
01-09-2005, 05:54 PM
Take SWGB for example they bought Echuu Shen Jon in the campaigns to help Leia.

Imperials will attack your Jedi anyways because he is an enemy unit on the battlefield.

lukeiamyourdad
01-09-2005, 06:13 PM
Yeah but they could have done the campaign without him and it was a continuity error.

FroZticles
01-10-2005, 02:05 AM
To you maybe but have you ever wondered what happens between New Hope and Before the Empire strikes back. I don't know where it screws up continuity.

Prime
01-10-2005, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by FroZticles
It is still possible for other Jedi to exist in the OT besides the ones we saw in the films. They said that Vader was the only one in the galaxy left with the knowledge of the force but Yoda had managed to slip under the radar and not get killed. It is possible that they exist. However, they will all be in hiding and never exposing themselves as Jedi. The Emperor went out of his way (i.e. is extremely fanatical about) destroying or controlling any and all force users. If a Jedi were to pop up and start using his powers to battle the Empire, the Emperor and his minions would hunt them down with extreme prejudice. That is why Kenobi and Yoda and anyone else went into hiding. If it wasn't dangerous to show oneself as a Jedi, they (along with any other Jedi) would have been fighting with the Rebellion years before ANH. Are you suggesting they were on vacation or just didn't feel like fighting the Empire? If Imperial troops discovered a Jedi on the battlefield, said Jedi would then be subjected to the full might of the Empire.

That is why it is completely inappropriate and a continuity error to have full-fledged Jedi on the battlefield in an OT era game.

CodeDrifter
01-11-2005, 08:52 PM
If you ask me they should just have Luke and Vader. And this is coming from a self-prophessed Jedi fanboy.

My reasoning is though Palps and Yoda are around Palps would never be on the frontlines and Yoda's still on Dagobah.

El Sitherino
01-12-2005, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Well everyone except the Jedi in the OT. Or the serie will face a massive continuity error. or perhaps others might have lived, they just stay hidden, I mean it's not like they really mattered to the story in the OT anyway, so they may have been left out, off screen, whatever you wanna say. ;)

Anyway, I agree with Prime, I think Jedi should not be included in the game, or atleast not ones we didn't see in the movie. Maybe just Obi-Wan and Luke, and possibly Yoda.

lukeiamyourdad
01-12-2005, 01:18 PM
Well, Luke and Leia wouldn't be the last hopes then would they?
If the Force indeeds pushes a restart button for the Jedi everything x amount of years, it would not really be a fully new beginning then, if all the vestiges of the Old Jedi order are not erased.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141281&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

FroZticles
01-16-2005, 01:49 PM
No thats not true Luke and Leia are still the last hopes because Obi-Wan and Yoda only know they are the last of the Jedi. More could exist somewhere in the galaxy but keep hidden. Also Luke is the only one who could draw the good back out of Vader no other regular Jedi could.

Augustus_Leto
01-16-2005, 06:41 PM
Seeing as how complex and heated this argument is going, I really think the Jedi should be left out. Like everyone's saying, they'd have to be superhuman to survive in this game, but they aren't. They couldn't cut down an AT-AT in real life so they shouldn't be in fights where AT-AT's exist. They should just be left out this time around, we've had enough Jedi games; we need more trooper games like Battlefront.

Kroven
01-17-2005, 05:30 AM
sounds good, would be nice to have jedis with:D

El Sitherino
01-17-2005, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Well, Luke and Leia wouldn't be the last hopes then would they?
If the Force indeeds pushes a restart button for the Jedi everything x amount of years, it would not really be a fully new beginning then, if all the vestiges of the Old Jedi order are not erased.
Luke and Leia were the last hopes because they were the only ones that could be capable of defeating Vader and Palpatine. Skywalker blood and all that, remember the force is strong in their family.

Admiral Vostok
01-17-2005, 12:01 PM
Jedi should definitely not be in the game. The Republic was the only faction that employed Jedi on the battle field in significant numbers, and they aren't in this game. Sure Jedi are fun in a game but you have to draw the line between gameplay and realism somewhere.

And to those who say it is possible there are other Jedi hiding, I disagree. The prophecy says Anakin Skywalker will bring the Force back into balance; what this means is that there will be only two Sith (as there have always been) in Sidious/Palpatine and Vader, and to balance them two Jedi in Yoda and Obi-Wan. As lukeiamyourdad said, if there were other Jedi in hiding then Luke/Leia would not be the Jedi's last hope.

DK_Viceroy
01-18-2005, 01:14 AM
but Vostok are those jedi in the same position as Luke and Leia?

In terms of being highly desired by the Emporer while other Jedi are merely target practise?

Your Purism betrays you, you take everything so literally. I have yet to read the book that mentions the tree form Jedi Master on Ossuss, but obviously that Jedi would b in no position to slay the emporer and thrust the empire into dis-array as the Battle on Endor did.

Kryllith
01-18-2005, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Augustus_Leto
Seeing as how complex and heated this argument is going, I really think the Jedi should be left out. Like everyone's saying, they'd have to be superhuman to survive in this game, but they aren't. They couldn't cut down an AT-AT in real life so they shouldn't be in fights where AT-AT's exist. They should just be left out this time around, we've had enough Jedi games; we need more trooper games like Battlefront.

Seems to me Luke did pretty well single-handedly against an AT-AT... Maybe the jedi just need cary magnetic grapplers and thermo detonators.

My 2 cents: The Jedi/Sith from the movies should be in the game as hero units, Luke and Vader certainly, and possibly Obi-wan, Yoda, and Palpatine as well in a smaller capacity. I don't have a problem with the revelation of hidden Jedi (such as Echuu) given the expansion across different planets, but it should be kept to a minimum (campaigns only)...

Kryllith

El Sitherino
01-18-2005, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
As lukeiamyourdad said, if there were other Jedi in hiding then Luke/Leia would not be the Jedi's last hope.

Originally posted by InsaneSith
Luke and Leia were the last hopes because they were the only ones that could be capable of defeating Vader and Palpatine. Skywalker blood and all that, remember the force is strong in their family.

CodeDrifter
01-19-2005, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok


And to those who say it is possible there are other Jedi hiding, I disagree. The prophecy says Anakin Skywalker will bring the Force back into balance; what this means is that there will be only two Sith (as there have always been) in Sidious/Palpatine and Vader, and to balance them two Jedi in Yoda and Obi-Wan. As lukeiamyourdad said, if there were other Jedi in hiding then Luke/Leia would not be the Jedi's last hope.

Lucas doesn't mean equal numbers by balance. He means that the Sith are a cancer on the Force creating imbalance whereas the Jedi live in peace with the Force's will thus, they don't upset the balance

DK_Viceroy
01-20-2005, 12:10 AM
I never thought Vostok would dig himself into a hole so early:p

I thought he was far more careful that that:rolleyes:

Prime
01-20-2005, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
The prophecy says Anakin Skywalker will bring the Force back into balance; what this means is that there will be only two Sith (as there have always been) in Sidious/Palpatine and Vader, and to balance them two Jedi in Yoda and Obi-Wan. As lukeiamyourdad said, if there were other Jedi in hiding then Luke/Leia would not be the Jedi's last hope. I don't think the meaning of "bring balance to the Force" has been clarified enough for you to make that statement. Actually, you are the first person I've seen to take that view of its meaning.

Kryllith
01-20-2005, 07:58 AM
Actually I've argued the same point several times on the SW forums...

Kryllith

lonepadawan
01-20-2005, 08:12 AM
The prophecy says Anakin Skywalker will bring the Force back into balance; what this means is that there will be only two Sith (as there have always been) in Sidious/Palpatine and Vader, and to balance them two Jedi in Yoda and Obi-Wan. As lukeiamyourdad said, if there were other Jedi in hiding then Luke/Leia would not be the Jedi's last hope.

Lucas has said that the force is bought back into balance when Palpatine is destroyed...

And if your theory is correct... how does that work if all that is left is 1 jedi... is the force OUT of balance again?

OverlordAngelus
01-20-2005, 09:08 AM
For that matter, you'll even be able to recruit powerful hero characters for your armies, including legendary Jedi, such as the fearsome Sith lord Darth Vader.

That was from the gamespot article.

Given the nature of the game, I suspect you can assign a hero character to a planet or a fleet and if they're present at a location where a battle starts, they can be used to influence the outcome but if they're somewhere else, you can't use them.

Kryllith
01-21-2005, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by lonepadawan
Lucas has said that the force is bought back into balance when Palpatine is destroyed...

And if your theory is correct... how does that work if all that is left is 1 jedi... is the force OUT of balance again?

Could be, balance is a tricky thing. But then, we're talking about a sole surviving Jedi with a lot of gray area. Luke has a fair amount of control issues, he uses Darkside powers (force choking Gammorian guards), and he basically draws upon the darkside to defeat Vader on combat; he's not a shining example of what a Lightside Jedi is.

Perhaps that's why the Force could be in balance with him being the sole survivor. The Sith thrive upon their hate and rage while the Jedi strive always to control their emotions. Luke is in the middle; in that sense, he's more natural, and given that the Force is generated and helps to maintain the natural flow of life, Luke might better serve to keep the balance by not shifting to either of the extremes.

As to balance being achieved with Palpatine's death, well we're left with Vader, who's attempted to walk both paths and had more success on the Darkside. Vader's self-sacrifice in the defeat of Palpitine allows him to pretty much let go of the greater aspects of his Darkside, putting him more near the middle with Luke (allowing the balance to be achieved). When he dies, just Luke is left which points back to my previous argument...

Kryllith

Admiral Vostok
01-22-2005, 02:35 AM
Viceroy, I'm hardly dug into a hole.

It's true that the numbers thing is really just my way of interpreting the prophecy - and apparently Kryllith's as well. CodeDrifter's interpretation is also valid. We may find out which interpretation is correct in ROTS but then again it may be left open for debate.

At any rate I believe that Vader does bring about the balance by having 2 Sith = 2 Jedi. And yes, Lonepadawan, that does mean once Luke is the only Jedi then the Force is once again "out of balance".

DK_Viceroy
01-22-2005, 05:42 AM
Vostok it wouldn't be the first time you've dug yourself into a hole, this is just the most recent example.

I like to think of the Jedi and Sith as having a much deeper meaning than mere numbers, that takes some of the essence of a jedi out.

Also Mace Windu never mentions anything about numbers he implies healing the rift between the users of the light and dark. This actually fits in with the EU since the Sith Empire and the Republic had several wars and if the two consiliated it would bring things back into balance.

lonepadawan
01-22-2005, 10:57 AM
Eh... star wars purism or whatnot is another word for overanalyzing entertainment?

Star Wars is space myth man! It's not about numbers! "The balance" is a slightly more romantic concept than simply 1 jedi 1 sith or anything..

DK_Viceroy
01-22-2005, 11:14 AM
Lonepadawn you'll fit in well in this Warzone:p

lonepadawan
01-22-2005, 11:35 AM
Been watching you lot for a looongo time... lurking in the shadows of GB.com... waiting for my moment... bwhaahahahahhaah.... ahem.. :D

DK_Viceroy
01-22-2005, 01:06 PM
Yes it was fun watching Vostok's support Wither away, Subtract Windu and Puzzlebox and the playing firled is now most even.

FroZticles
01-22-2005, 08:16 PM
Lol Windu never supported Vostok at the best of times. Puzzlebox was arrogant and I don't think he agreed with anyone. Just these forums are bigger and its hard for Vostok to brainwash people into believing his purist garbage. Same with your Truism crap too Viceroy.

*JEDI SIGHTING*
Well a Jedi statue anyways. In one of the screens I saw a Jedi statue so this could mean we have forceusers in the RTS.

Jan Gaarni
01-22-2005, 11:16 PM
Alright, let's keep to the topic and not discuss who's wrong and who's right about Star Wars as you all will be right and wrong at one point in the argument. ;)

Reminder what the topic is about: Jedi: What role will they play if any!!
within the game EaW

saberhagen
01-23-2005, 01:48 AM
That jedi statue is a recurring motif in LA games. I think it's almost becoming an in-joke! I don't think it has any bearing on what role jedi will play in the game.

Alegis
01-23-2005, 01:59 AM
I don't think they'll really use the force, probably units wtih high, regenerating, HP and attack power like in force commander (or another SW RTS which name I forgot). As a role rather a powerful unit in the middle of a semi-large army. I wouldn't want to send it alone in case the enemies focus firepower and kill the precious jedi. Something like a monk in prevous games: you make sure they don't attract much attention and keep em with armies

Kryllith
01-23-2005, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by lonepadawan
Eh... star wars purism or whatnot is another word for overanalyzing entertainment?

Star Wars is space myth man! It's not about numbers! "The balance" is a slightly more romantic concept than simply 1 jedi 1 sith or anything..
The numbers game is a rough approximation, but I base my argument on the potential balance of the respective Jedi/Sith power. Obviously if there were 2 Jedi and 2 Sith and the Sith were Palpatine and Vader at the height of their power while the Jedi were both padawans, then there wouldn't be any balance.

So lets consider... starting with the masters in the old trilogy we have Yoda and Palpatine. Who's the more powerful entity? Who's to say (other than Lucas) really? Some will argue one way while some will argue the other. I'll simplify the argument and consider them approximately equal.

That leaves us with with Vader and Obiwan. We know from Obiwan's own mouth that Vader has possibly the most raw power given the midiclorian count. In the time of Attack of the Clones, I'd give the edge to Obiwan given his experience, but Vader gained quite a bit of experience fighting in the Clone Wars and later hunting down Jedi. By the time of their meeting, I'd throw the power edge to Vader. Given that other hidden Jedi (if any) probably aren't using their powers (or if they are, only minimally) to avoid detection, Vader's edge over Obiwan has shifted the balance away from the Jedi and over to the Sith. This balance shift intensifies with Obiwan's death (yes, I know, Obiwan mentions becoming more powerful than Vader can imagine, but that's open to another interpretation that I don't have the time to go into at the moment). So, that leaves us with Yoda and a limitedly trained Luke vs Palpatine and Vader.

Yoda dies through natural causes throwing the balance of power even more in favor of the Sith, especially given Luke's emersion into the gray area. Vader rebalances the power by sacrificing himself to eliminate Palpatine, leaving only Luke in his relative balance (and subsequently, the Force as well.) That a bit more romantic for you? :)

Kryllith

Admiral Vostok
01-28-2005, 09:17 PM
OFF TOPIC: Viceroy, yes that is what Windu implies, but don't forget I'm assuming that the Jedi are interpreting the prophecy incorrectly. They obviously aren't interpreting it the same way I am or they wouldn't be too keen on the fact Anakin will kill nearly all of them.

Kryllith's description gave me an idea: Lucas has always said Obi-Wan's becoming one with the Force while Qui-Gon didn't has something to do with his line "I'll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Perhaps this power comes from the fact the Force is again brought out of balance? That's just speculation of course.

Anyway...

ON TOPIC: If heroes worked similarly to the way they do in Battle For Middle Earth, it would be best to limit Jedi to just being the heroes (Vader, Luke, etc). Certainly having access to more than just these Jedi would not work all that well considering the game is restricted to the Civil War Era.

DK_Viceroy
01-29-2005, 02:49 AM
I hope you don't hold up the heroes in BFME as the epitome of balance:p

Because they're certainly not that I can tell you now. :D

I think Luke and Vader should be campaign units and shouldn't be in battle, Heroes in Star Wars are for Campaigns, however we could have some different heroes like Kyle Katarn and Captain Page for the rebellion both Commando heroes so this would help the rebellion in their line of commando missions.

The Empire could get General Veersand perhaps a Moff, the Moff could work similar to an AoM Pharoh except him being near whatever works as resource gatherers to work faster or being in the equivalent of a command center increasing line of sight and making all building work better.

FroZticles
01-29-2005, 02:52 PM
Vader has the edge in Episode 3 because he took the faster/easier way and went to the darkside to get the most power as quickly as he could. Where as the Lightside have a whole lifetime to get there emotions balanced and to channel them without resorting to using anger as a weapon.

I hope the campaigns are more story based then the BFME ones I found every mission in the campaigns every generic and after the first 5 missions it started to get very boring.

lukeiamyourdad
01-29-2005, 06:12 PM
I kinda liked the campaigns in BFME.

The regular missions are a bit boring after a while but the ones where you control heroes or the big battles are quite fun.

The Black Gate was hell but it was a lot of fun.

Admiral Vostok
01-29-2005, 07:00 PM
Well I never said the BFME heroes were well balanced, I am yet to play the game so I wouldn't know. However I do like the idea that the game almost revolves around them.

As I've said in the past, I would like to see buildable heroes in a Star Wars RTS for the simple reason that characters and their actions are such an important part of the movies. Thematically speaking, the movies show that the actions of a single character can have consequences that alter the entire Galaxy, so having a significant presence in a game emulating the movies seems a logical extension of this theme.

FroZticles
01-29-2005, 11:58 PM
The only thing heroes provide in an RTS is that they can kill more units then most regular units before they die and they are also focus fire targets.

BFME revolves around the armies more than the heroes and capturing different parts of Middle-Earth.

Sithxace
01-30-2005, 06:24 AM
there prob gonna do what they did in rebellion, theres commanders/ admirals etc for each ship/fleet maybe even add a hero to a fighter squad, and what they'll do is improve the effeciency and performance of the ships their commanding.

also maybe jedis can do what assassins did in rebellion and do missions and what not, fight vader who knows, add a boast to troops of the ground and command.

Stival Discipal
01-30-2005, 06:36 PM
Jedi could be used effectively in this game as hero units. Or possibly hidden characters that if found depending on your current "point status", a player could ask to join there army. This would fit more with the fact that Jedi are hiding from everyone, and thaht there are not Rebels or serve the Empire.

If used in combat, there should be a definate price to pay for the player since during this time the Jedi are being hunted to oblivion.

This in my opinion is the best way to balance theuse of Jedi in this game. At any rate, just to satisfy purists, in multiplayer there should be a Jedi on/off button ;)

lonepadawan
02-03-2005, 08:04 AM
OT: For all those who think the whole point of the chosen one and bringing balance is 2 sith, 2 jedi... EP3 SPOILERS





EPISODE II TERNIAN REPORT: It Is Your Destiny...

Febuary 1 2005

"...Only now, at the end, do you understand." Emperor Palpatine, Return of the Jedi

When Anakin arrives at the window of the private office, he can see only bodies and Fisto's head. He cuts through the glass and steps inside. Passing through the short corridor, he enters the Chancellors public office, where Palpatine duels with Master Windu.

Anakin stands by and watches the duel in the shadows.

The battling Mace cuts a hole in the window of the office, planning to push Sidious out, but that does not work initially. They fight again, slowly moving towards the window. They eventually end up outside the office, on the narrow ledge of the Republic Executive Office. The rain continues to fall.

After intense fighting, Mace cuts Palpatine's saber in half. The Sith suddenly turns and addresses Anakin who can now be seen in the office.

"You see? Didn't I warn you of the Jedi and their treason?" he says. Mace continues his stare at the Chancellor.

Suddenly, just when Mace is about to strike down and destroy the Sith, Palpatine unleashes his power and lightning strikes from his hand. His face ages dramaticially into an aged old man before the Jedi's eyes.

"FOOL!" he exclaims.

Mace blocks the lightning with his blade but this is a hard moment for both combatants as they both begin to call to Anakin. Anakin now stands at Mace's shoulder, unsure what to do: Sidious wants him to kill the traitor but the Jedi Master orders him to kill the Sith and fulfill his destiny as the Chosen One.

At last, Palpatine collapses and begs for mercy from Mace. Mace, however, does not accept it. He moves for a final blow and then...

"Wait!..." cries Anakin.

You may go into denial if you want. But this is NOT fake. I suppose you could come up with "Mace isn't a Star Wars purist... he doesn't know the truth" but it does support what George Lucas (you know... the one who created Star Wars... I suppose he's not a purist either) says.. that killing Palpatine is fulfilling his destiny as the chosen one...?

FroZticles
02-03-2005, 07:49 PM
That spoiler proves nothing, it just shows what Mace thinks is bringing balance back to the force by destroying the last Sith. I hardly call no Sith and hundreds of Jedi balanced...

Admiral Vostok
02-04-2005, 10:25 PM
Exactly. I didn't read the spoiler as I took a vow not to, but as I've said before it is the fact that the Jedi Council misinterpret the prophecy that makes things interesting.

If they really believed the prophecy meant that Anakin would kill all but two Jedi, I somehow don't think they would have been so eager to train him.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-05-2005, 05:35 PM
Jedi disguise themselves as storm troopers
Oh please! Just because one Jedi did it, they all should?! That's like saying that all must die trough letting their guard down as that's how Obi Wan died. Or that the only way to kill a Sith is to throw him down a hole like they did with Palpatine and Maul. Or that every X-Wing should have a loose s-foil because Luke's X-Wing's s-foil came loose. Give me a break.

Wrong time period
No, really, let's add Jedi. Let's add Droideka to the Rebels as well, and Naboo Security forces to the Imperials. And don't forget to give the Alliance Faamba Shield Generator "dinosaurs". Right, the Gungans were the ones to have them, but screw accuracy :rolleyes: .

I think Luke and Vader should be campaign units and shouldn't be in battle, Heroes in Star Wars are for Campaigns, however we could have some different heroes like Kyle Katarn and Captain Page for the rebellion both Commando heroes so this would help the rebellion in their line of commando missions.
I'm all for special infantry. Heroes? No. Far too rare, there's only one of each of those characters:p . Thus, "recruiting" Luke and resurrecting him when he dies is utterly silly.

Special infantry, in my opinion, should consist of stuff like generals, commanders, etc. that could be attached to groups (including vehicles).

Jedi could be used effectively in this game as hero units. Or possibly hidden characters that if found depending on your current "point status", a player could ask to join there army. This would fit more with the fact that Jedi are hiding from everyone, and thaht there are not Rebels or serve the Empire.
But it doesn't change the fact that they are dead.

Nothing in the books, comics, or movies suggest that other Jedi were alive at the time. In fact, Obi-Wan and Yoda referred to Luke and Leia as the two last ones beside themselves. If there were other Jedi, they would know.

Short and easy
1. There were no Jedi in that time period except for Luke, Leia, Yoda, and Obi-Wan (screw you, Lukeiamyourdad:p).
2. A Star Wars game, contrary to popular belief, does not have to have Jedi. Galactic Conquest (www.galactic-conquest.net) has none, and it rules, in part for that reason. Battlefront has Jedi, and they greatly reduce the game. Galaxies has Jedi, and they greatly reduce the game.
3. Jedi won't add anything to the game. Want a leader unit that makes your troops fight better? Recruit high-ranking officers. Want a healing unit? Er.. heard about medics? Want a scout unit? Recruit a recon unit. Want a great fighter? Recruit good troops or use your army so that it levels up.

No Jedi. Please. They have absolutely no place in a game like Empire at War.

Reminder what the topic is about : Jedi: What role will they play, if any!
None, except as fighters in campaigns.

lukeiamyourdad
03-05-2005, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
No, really, let's add Jedi. Let's add Droideka to the Rebels as well, and Naboo Security forces to the Imperials. And don't forget to give the Alliance Faamba Shield Generator "dinosaurs". Right, the Gungans were the ones to have them, but screw accuracy :rolleyes:

So I am sure that after this little speech and your obvious love for Galactic Conquest, that you approve of them adding Republic Gunships for the Rebels right? ;)

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Nothing in the books, comics, or movies suggest that other Jedi were alive at the time. In fact, Obi-Wan and Yoda referred to Luke and Lei as the two last ones beside themselves. If there were other Jedi, they would know.

Short and easy
1. There were no Jedi in that time period.

A bit of a contradiction here is there?

Darth Windu
03-05-2005, 10:43 PM
ON-TOPIC:

The way I see it, if this game had the Republic and Confederacy, Jedi would be essential to the game because of their huge role in the PT and CW. However, as it is only half a game, and due to it being set in the old inferior half (OT) there should be no Jedi in this game, with the exception of heroes (Yoda, Obi, Luke, Vader). These heroes would play an important role in the events leading up to Ep4 (Yoda, Vader, Obi) and also after (Luke, Vader) in terms of actually fighting and whatnot. Aside from that, I say no Jedi.

OFF-TOPIC:

Most people seem to think that the force being in blanace is the number of Jedi vs the number of Sith, but it isn't. I mean really, why then would Mace Windu talk about bringing the force back into balance while at the same time the Jedi think the Sith are extinct? Certainly, it also does not make sense for the Jedi to train a boy for the sole purpose of killing almost all of them.

I'm not going to pretend I know what they mean, but the way I see it, the first step to figuring out what the imbalance is, is figuring out what is not in balance with regards to the force.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-06-2005, 10:47 AM
So I am sure that after this little speech and your obvious love for Galactic Conquest, that you approve of them adding Republic Gunships for the Rebels right?
Touche :D . To my defence, I can at least say I was against gunships in GC when I first found out that they were in;) .

Good one, though.

A bit of a contradiction here is there?
Why you old nit-picking... Stop it or I shall never stare at your avatar again :mad:!
Corrected:).

However, as it is only half a game, and due to it being set in the old inferior half (OT)
Someone doesn't have high thoughts of Ep 4-6 for some reason...:p

CodeDrifter
03-07-2005, 11:33 PM
No less of an authority than Lucas himself has said Balance is brought when the Sith are destroyed because they are like a cancer.

FroZticles
03-09-2005, 02:37 AM
The Sith are never truely destroyed. As long as Jedi exist Sith will exist.

General Nitro
03-27-2005, 11:33 AM
In Galactic Battlegrounds, the use of Jedi Temples and Sith Temples were highly unrealistic. But hey, so was the whole game. So I wouldn't mind a Jedi and Sith Temple. Adds some flavor unless you're going for 100% realistic game. Then you'd have to scrap them.