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ShadowJedi
01-25-2005, 07:05 AM
Well for all you who knew me.. i was KOL_shadowjedi and PReDaToR_xGoDx.

I have been reading these forums for a bit and had a look at all the screenshots and i can deffinately say this game would rock!

I really think they should add at least half of the following units/structures/etc..

The biggest downfall of SWGB was that even though you could tell ech side after playing them you still didnt "KNOW" who they were. I think buildings should brandish the Imperial Flag on any Imperial Banner or Emperor Statues etc. Which brings me to the structures list but I strongly think that this game needs a scenario editor. That is why Strategy games with thm last a long time and replay value is increased by 100x.

Imperial / rebel Structures with some differences where applicable.

Base defence

Block Turret - Large / small
Dish Turret - Large / small
Wall - Has Imperial Propagada on it or the Imperial Banner every ten blocks.
Gate - Self explanitory
Guard Towers - Search light on the top (kind of like in tiberian sun)
Bunker large / small - like starcraft (4 units go in and fire from them, this would be such an awesome thing to have with 5 storm troopers in)

Base Structures

Imperial Propaganda - Small building with posters on it (boosts morale or something also great for scenarios)
Emeror Statue - has a quote on it when you hover over it, 3 -5 variations. (same as above)
Command Center - Huge complex with the Emperorers statue on top.
Barracks 1 - Imperial techies such as pilots, repairmen, medics etc (graphics relate to what units they produce)
Barracks 2 - same concept as above but for infantry
3 types of ugrade facilites. (armor and weaps being one, base complexity and defence capabilites another and for the third one abilities of units and other such research).
Vehicle Construction 1: builds light support ground vehicles
Vehicle Construction 2: builds heavy support ground vehicles
Air Base - self explanitory.
Satelite Station - goves reinforcemets every 5 game mins. (showing a lambda shuttle drop them)
Repair station.- vehicles go inside and get repaired (no cost?)
Shipyard - builds boat support?
RElay staton - something to do with space (gives the option to do something in space maybe?)
Housing / sleeping quarters type of building - pop limt?
power plants

Non Buildable structures - scenario stuff

wookiee and ewok type buildings
Planet SPECIFIC type buildings
these types of buildings would be vast and look good for all those scenarios mongers :)
Temples / monuments / shrines etc specific to planets (massusi temples on Yavin 4 for one)

and any ideas you have - i cant think of any more at the moment..what do you guys think?

lonepadawan
01-25-2005, 08:08 AM
My concept for buildings:

All buildings built in campaign map similar to total war games.

I am SICK to DEATH of bases in RTS games... is it really realistic that one can build buildings in the middle of a battle... at least FC was vaguely realistic in the way buildings were dropped from shuttles. Is it really realistic that you can magically produce troops?

We've seen some shots of what look like AT-AT barges and landing craft... prehaps we'll be landing troopers and armour in a similar way... except this time it'll be done in a GOOD way.

Jan Gaarni
01-25-2005, 08:53 AM
You will most likely not be able to build anything during combat.

If you haven't gotten your planetary defences (and orbital for that matter) up and running by the time the enemy comes to take (or re-claim) the planet you hold, tough luck. :)

ShadowJedi
01-25-2005, 09:56 AM
if theres no ability to build in game through multiplayed i can see this game dying in a month or 2.. RM and DM keep the old AoE games going.. surely you can see a similar thing..

I was thinking for producing men you could only do it in batches of 5? you see a shuttle come down a drop the men off and leave again for every batch?

im not sure though

OverlordAngelus
01-25-2005, 12:46 PM
For multiplayer skirmish battles, it would be best to have base building as a selectable option before the game actually starts (even the first c&c had this).

For multiplayer campaigns it will be the same as singleplayer.

ShadowJedi
01-25-2005, 12:50 PM
well im happy as long as theres a scenario editor and decent replay values...ive been waiting for this for ages..!

lonepadawan
01-25-2005, 12:54 PM
if theres no ability to build in game through multiplayed i can see this game dying in a month or 2.. RM and DM keep the old AoE games going.. surely you can see a similar thing..

Of course... the total war series is SOOOOO dead/endsarcasm

ShadowJedi
01-25-2005, 01:04 PM
ive played total war games, after completing them on the 2nd highest difficulty etc i just find them boring.. replay value is there but it doesnt drive many people..total war is dead compared to AoE series online..

lonepadawan
01-25-2005, 01:23 PM
Really? Well a lot of other people find them innovative and that they have the most strategic depth in any game out there.

I find ordering workers about to build up a base boring myself...

ShadowJedi
01-25-2005, 01:40 PM
dont get me wrong - strategy is one of my favourite things in games, and i love the total war series battles.. but the campaign system just doesnt cut it for me - maybe with star wars it would though - who knows, i know this game will be great..there should deffinately be an RM / DM type game though...wouldnt you agree?

swphreak
01-25-2005, 06:50 PM
I find RTW boring as well.

I want to be able to at least build quick defensive structures. Like setting up anti-infantry, ect and maybe trenches/walls.

<.<

I'm a defense whore

lonepadawan
01-26-2005, 07:01 AM
Well for every one of you who thinks total war is boring may I remind you there is also a fairly large majority who thought GB was bad. Everyone has different opinions...

I think those hoping for yet another GB/CC/AOK buildupyourbasethenrush game are in for a shock...

Alegis
01-26-2005, 07:47 AM
There shouldn't be that many structures. Have some stations with a couple of functions combined. Many buildings is not a good thing; takes too long to build an army and too much risk when making armies relying a lot on different buildings.

edit; yaha! The 1000th post.

ShadowJedi
01-27-2005, 06:23 AM
1 of the major flaws in generals is that there are limited structures - less buildings will take away from scenarios etc..but if this is like another total war type game, is it really worth it?

Dagobahn Eagle
03-09-2005, 11:25 AM
Setting up light weapons like E-Web turbo lasers does not sound too bad or unrealistic to me.

Building whole structures? No thanks. Not for Empire at War. In other games, though, it can be awesome.

Master_Cain
03-09-2005, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Setting up light weapons like E-Web turbo lasers does not sound too bad or unrealistic to me.

Building whole structures? No thanks. Not for Empire at War. In other games, though, it can be awesome.

Wow - finnaly a guy who reads and understands official EaW previews - I will contact you before i post the second EaW preliminary scan - sice english is not my first language and I may require some feedback - If you want to help of course.

The Official EaW public relation (mostly LEC) strategy is to annonce all the good and juice stuff after the release of the Episode III - so until then we may gues behind the words of official existing previews - and this guessing is pretty close to the real thruth.

As for buildings well many are already done - so if we want to suggest we need to be very close to existing EaW - SW buildings concepts - so if they reed this stuff they can actually implement it with ease.

We need to use the Force guys to see behind the darkness - loll - don't mind me - I'm just a droid.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-09-2005, 02:59 PM
Wow - finnaly a guy who reads and understands official EaW previews - I will contact you before i post the second EaW preliminary scan - sice english is not my first language and I may require some feedback - If you want to help of course.
No problem. E-mail is midgardeagle@hotmail.com.

With the huge armies, though, I don't know how to make deployable weapons as fun as in small-scale games like Ground Control. If you have 100 troops and 8 AT-STs, what difference is a turbo laser going to do?

I still see some potential in the idea, though. Other things could maybe include a deployable deflector shield akin to the half-dome in Galactic Conquest, or the big dome in Phantom Menace.

A deployable rocket launcher of some kind would be nice as well.

Implementation-wise, it could work like the artillery in Medieval (spelling?) Total War, with some differences: They can be deployed by any squad and operated by any squad. A squad can be assigned to them, be un-assigned them, pick them up, and re-deploy them at will. You choose which squad gets which weapon before battle.

In Total War, there's a lot of maneovring (spelling:p?) of troops prior to battle itself. Then it often ends with one side suddenly charging the other. Setting up deployable guns and the likes would make it a little cooler to defend a position.

Master_Cain
03-10-2005, 02:25 AM
Dagobahn Eagle - thanks for teh support I will contact you as soon as I finish the previews compilation.

FroZticles
03-10-2005, 02:57 AM
Without the base building it will be another flopped SW RTS and SWGB will still hold the crown for the best SW RTS. I just hope its not like the C&C series of RTS where the mods are the only thing it has going for it.

Master_Cain
03-10-2005, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by FroZticles
Without the base building it will be another flopped SW RTS and SWGB will still hold the crown for the best SW RTS. I just hope its not like the C&C series of RTS where the mods are the only thing it has going for it.

Building bases in a battle was never a realistic thing - great to play but utopic as a fact. The battles are a quick thing and you don't have actually time to build anything. EaW tries to be as realistic as it gets in terms of reality dinamycs.

Same as in RTW or the TW series - buiding is done in real time outside the actual engagement. I really don't belive SWGB will get even near EaW - I don't want to go in details - just trust me on this.

FroZticles
03-10-2005, 07:12 AM
Realism does not apply when it ruins gameplay. When the clones were fighting on Geonosis you think the Kamino stopped producing clones and building facilities to make more? With the Empire you think they halted all there plans just because a battle was going on? I think not...

Dagobahn Eagle
03-10-2005, 10:32 AM
Without the base building it will be another flopped SW RTS and SWGB will still hold the crown for the best SW RTS. I just hope its not like the C&C series of RTS where the mods are the only thing it has going for it.
No one says that there will be no base building. They say there'll be no base building during battle. I don't think bases will even be represented in battle, but that doesn't mean they are not in the game at all.

Let's put it this way: You want base building during battle? Fine. Play Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds. Want a Total War-style "management-and-battle-kept-apart" game? Play Empire at War. See? Something for everyone. If you make Empire at War work like SWGB and Red Alert and Empire Earth, what do the Total War fans play when they want Star Wars;) ?

Realism does not apply when it ruins gameplay. When the clones were fighting on Geonosis you think the Kamino stopped producing clones and building facilities to make more? With the Empire you think they halted all there plans just because a battle was going on? I think not...
Er... Yes?:confused: No, not really, they calmly worked on unarmed as people died around them and blaster bolts kept nearly hitting them.

In fact, I remember it now, the battle of Hoth: Soldiers calmly digging trenches while being bombarded by AT-ATs.

I didn't like Battle for Middle Earth's system at all. Base building in battle and invading with an army? Makes no sense to me. Also, I dislike the idea of having the whole base represented in the battle, so that if you, say, lose your Mech Factory or whatever, you lose it outside of battle and have to rebuild it for that province/planet (whatever). It works in X-Com: Terror from the Deep for battles inside bases (facility heavily damaged=facility lost) since you've got nearly only small-arms fire. It works in Stars! as starbases can take a beating (the knock-out-the-starbase-before-you-can-invade system seems nearly identical to Stars!'s), but to have base facilities represented in battle when there are AT-ATs and tanks around? Nope.

FroZticles
03-10-2005, 10:50 PM
BFME is not the only RTS to use base building while in combat SWGB,WC3,BFME,AOK and many more. If you want a Total War game based on Star Wars go and download a mod and play it. I've been playing SWGB for 3 years and I want this RTS to be good not Total War with Star Wars skins which is what a few people want to see.

I don't care if they limit buildings to outside of combat but the game needs to be playable you cannot have complete realism in every game.

jokemaster
03-10-2005, 11:05 PM
What I read was that you have a main base and you keep adding 'extensions' to it, so you can build a space station and add like shipyards and defenses and stuff. Sounded a bit like Homeworld to me.

Master_Cain
03-11-2005, 12:50 AM
FroZticleslet me put it in a more dark light for you - In EaW you will be able to manually build only defences outside a battle - the building of facilityes is only decided by you and put on the land by the AI also outside the battle. This has been decided by the EaW and LEC people so .... thats the situation. No building during battles - space assoults , land assoults or space blockdes - Play Rebellion and you will understand why.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-11-2005, 08:40 AM
BFME is not the only RTS to use base building while in combat SWGB,WC3,BFME,AOK and many more. If you want a Total War game based on Star Wars go and download a mod and play it. I've been playing SWGB for 3 years and I want this RTS to be good not Total War with Star Wars skins which is what a few people want to see.
Total War had space battles? Did you fight for planets in total war? Did you have to destroy space stations to invade territories?;)

This game will be totally different from Total War. If you insist on saying that "a few people want Rome: Total War with SW skins", well, it can't be worse than Age of Empires II with Star Wars content and a few new features (hint: GB):p.

I don't care if they limit buildings to outside of combat but the game needs to be playable you cannot have complete realism in every game.
Don't worry. It'll be playable.

If it matters to have many games without base building:
Ground Control
Ground Control 2
X-Com UFO Defence
X-Com Terror From the Deep
X-Com Apocalypse
UFO Aftermath
Rebellion
Medieval: Total War (+Expansions)
Rome Total War
Stars!
Dominions
Dominions II

FroZticles
03-11-2005, 06:05 PM
GB was just using the AOK engine, they wanted to use the best RTS engine out there so they did and made a good RTS.

And you've played all those RTS? WOW I thought I needed a life :cool:

Dagobahn Eagle
03-12-2005, 04:56 PM
GB was just using the AOK engine.
Exactly. That's what I said.

And you've played all those RTS?
Nope. How's that relevant?

Nokill
03-12-2005, 08:22 PM
din't old uncle george already touth of the structures a long time ago :rolleyes:

FroZticles
03-12-2005, 09:00 PM
Well I hardly see how you can back your argument then if you have not played all of them. Half of those games I have not even heard of so there gameplay must have really sucked.

jokemaster
03-12-2005, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by FroZticles
Well I hardly see how you can back your argument then if you have not played all of them. Half of those games I have not even heard of so there gameplay must have really sucked.
So..........your not having heard of a game automatically makes it really suck?

Ever hear of System Shock 2, Deus EX, Thief, Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle, Duke Nukem 3D, Mafia?

Dagobahn Eagle
03-13-2005, 09:30 AM
OK, let's backtrack:

You said:
BFME is not the only RTS to use base building while in combat SWGB,WC3,BFME,AOK and many more. If you want a Total War game based on Star Wars go and download a mod and play it. I've been playing SWGB for 3 years and I want this RTS to be good not Total War with Star Wars skins which is what a few people want to see.

What I translate that argument into, and I can't be the only one, is that since base building during battle was in a number of games, it's the way to go.

So to refute your argument I listed all the games I knew of without base building in battle. But then you turned around and apparently didn't see why I was doing it.
And you've played all those RTS? WOW I thought I needed a life!
Well I hardly see how you can back your argument, then, if you have not played all of them.


Not to mention this weird argument that
Half of those games I have not even heard of, so [their] gameplay must [really have] sucked.
Just because a game didn't spend millions on marketing, it sucked? I do not follow you. Tonnes of games out there are awesome without its awesomeness translating into sales.

Back on topic: Just like a lot of good games had base building during battle, a lot of good games did not. That's what I've been trying to tell you in my last posts.:o

FroZticles
03-13-2005, 08:40 PM
I was only saying I don't think you can back your argument with RTS's you have never played which some probably crashed and burned. You don't need to spend millions on advertisment to make a good RTS if the quality is there it will be posted on all the good gaming sites and get great reviews.

jokemaster
03-13-2005, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by FroZticles
I was only saying I don't think you can back your argument with RTS's you have never played which some probably crashed and burned. You don't need to spend millions on advertisment to make a good RTS if the quality is there it will be posted on all the good gaming sites and get great reviews. Yeah, but not all of the great reviewed games get coverage. I mean, name one game that had almost NO advertising, and still sold excellently well. I mean some of those are from back in the day where the only way a game got noticed was by ads or being on the cover of a magazine, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY before IGN, Gamespy, etc. Hell even now some games don't get the attention they deserve. I mean, I'm just arguing cause I get annoyed by people who say 'oh I didn't hear about it. Must've sucked'. Ever heard of Daiktana? Game got MASSIVE coverage in magazines and ended up sucking.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-13-2005, 10:40 PM
Ground Control, meanwhile, ruled and then died. After great reviews giving it only ratings in the 90's, even from GameSpot.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-14-2005, 05:25 PM
It helps to read:

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3137719

STAY ON TARGET (SCREENS 4 & 5)
When the ground war begins, all the main resources that were on the transports finally come into play, and that is all you've got to rely upon for the battle
It takes so little to read the reviews.

lukeiamyourdad
03-14-2005, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Ground Control, meanwhile, ruled and then died. After great reviews giving it only ratings in the 90's, even from GameSpot.

Ground Control was a very fun game but I thought it got repetitive after a while.

Well, overhyping a game is not a good thing...never is.

FroZticles
03-15-2005, 07:47 PM
I like how they are using realistic buildings like a cantina to recruit Rebel troops is a nice touch to the game.

Also BFME formations were not that great and EA made out it was a huge apart of the game and you would have so much to choose from but then once you played it it was hardly a factor at all. E@W team hope you learnt from EA's mistake.

I'm kind of accepting the whole less resources scenario since I would rather be taking down whole X-wings squads then ordering my Wookiee slaves ;) around to collect resources from that tree to build a Cloning Center or kill that rancor and harvest his organs so I can build some more stormies.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-15-2005, 08:10 PM
I like how they are using realistic buildings like a cantina to recruit Rebel troops is a nice touch to the game.
And I don't like how it's the only way. How about recruitment centres, etc.? Luke wasn't recruited in a cantina..;) Certainly the rebels aren't all country drunks who were "scouted" by recruitment officers while having a sandwich and a Jawa juice...:D ...Or...

Also BFME formations were not that great and EA made out it was a huge apart of the game and you would have so much to choose from but then once you played it it was hardly a factor at all. E@W team hope you learnt from EA's mistake.
It is indeed very important. I find formations make a huge difference in the game. How you select formations, upgrades, and abilities, though... Much less so. In Empires: Dawn of the Modern World, if you had units of more than one type selected, you'd get the respective icons for all of them (you had both the medic's "Heal" icon and the Army Ranger's "Artillery Barrage" icon, for instance, so you wouldn't have to de-select the whole group and select only Rangers to call in an artillery strike). In BFME, you have to do just that for the most simple things, from formations to upgrades...

I'm kind of accepting the whole less resources scenario since I would rather be taking down whole X-wings squads then ordering my Wookiee slaves around to collect resources from that tree to build a Cloning Center or kill that rancor and harvest his organs so I can build some more stormies.
Exactly.

FroZticles
03-15-2005, 08:19 PM
Luke is very different from most Rebel recruits he was recruited because of a chain of events and they saved the Princess and ended up on Hoth also the Empire killed his uncle and aunt.

Catinas are hiding spots for the Rebels to recruit. Recruitment Centers for Rebels? A huge Rebel banner out the front with a guy yelling out help us fight the Empire. How long do you think that operation could last before they have Vader himself blasting down the door

Dagobahn Eagle
03-16-2005, 07:36 AM
Luke is very different from most Rebel recruits he was recruited because of a chain of events and they saved the Princess and ended up on Hoth also the Empire killed his uncle and aunt.
And no one else in the whole Alliance joined because of a chain of events that made them dislike the Empire? I don't buy that.

Catinas are hiding spots for the Rebels to recruit. Recruitment Centers for Rebels? A huge Rebel banner out the front with a guy yelling out help us fight the Empire. How long do you think that operation could last before they have Vader himself blasting down the door?
That depends on the planetoid. On a rebel-symphatetic moon deep within Alliance territory? Surely, as the Imperials can't come there without a fight anyhow. On an imperial-controlled planet like Tatooine? Of course not.

But then again, neither could a cantina. As soon as the impereials learned of the rebel recruitment, they'd come in and wipe it out.

FroZticles
03-16-2005, 05:45 PM
Most people in the galaxy hate the Empire unless you have anything to gain from them you will dislike them.


Ummmmm where are they going to set up this recruiting center the middle of Hoth? Yavin? The Rebels were on the run in the films there is no way they would set up shop in some desolate planet where there is nothing to recruit....

Cantinas are more safe then a recruiting center could be thats why they use planets like Corellia where the local government and local cantinas hide them and there is a minimal Imperial presence. Of course once the Imperials find out that they are hiding there they will kill them. Thats the risk you take for recruiting but a recruiting center for Rebels is just not giving the message they are hiding.