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Yohein
02-11-2005, 02:51 PM
First of all, hi :)
I'm new in the forums and I'm a great fan of Grim Fandango (and other LucasArts games, of course). I'm spanish so, sorry if my english is not perfect.

I have a doubt about Salvador... and maybe about the plot. When we meet Salvador in year 1, he says he was a reaper once, like Manny. Later, at the end of the game, we discover that his NN ticket was stolen by Hector... why he didn't finish in the coral factory like all the others? and... why he was a reaper? he escaped from Domino after they stole his ticket and then started to work for them? senseless... :eek:
And, when we talk to him in Year 1, it looks like he has no idea about the tickets stealing. I mean, he asks Manny if he never wondered why ALL his best clients can't get the packages he know they deserve. If his ticket was stolen, he must have been picked up by Domino, he doesn't know that Hurley has got all the good clients?
I think it's a bit contradictory: if Salvador's ticket was stolen, why he worked like a reaper? I don't understand this :eek:

Bye :) :D

JofaGuht
02-11-2005, 03:30 PM
Sal probably worked as a reaper long before Hector started sending the people to the islands. That's how I imagine it.

Welcome to the forums.

VampireNaomi
02-12-2005, 12:01 AM
Welcome to the forums!

I agree with JofaGuht on that Salvador probably worked as a Reaper some time before Hector's plot blossomed. However, if that is true, who stole his ticket?

Perhaps Salvador was Hector's first victim?

Yohein
02-12-2005, 12:47 AM
That's what I mean. If he worked before the corruption began... who stole his ticket? because it was in Hector's wallet... I'm confused :( :D

Yohein
02-12-2005, 05:02 AM
Mmmm... an idea: maybe Salvador lied and he wasn't a reaper? maybe he said so because he wanted Manny to join the LSA. If he says he had a perfect life and then he couldn't get his ticket, Manny wouldn't join to the Alliance: "He's a crazy resentful who wants a better life here at any cost. I'm going out of here". But he said he was a reaper and then he attracted Manny's attention. I don't know :D

VampireNaomi
02-12-2005, 08:43 AM
I hadn't thought of that! It definitely makes sense. But somehow Salvador strikes me as a guy who never lies. Then again, if it's for the cause... I really need to ponder this, it's very fascinating.

Yohein
02-12-2005, 12:16 PM
Like Eva says: We all have our secrets :D :D :D
By the way... why Manny says (when he's going to the petrified forest by the tunnel) that Meche is his only way out of here, when Salva asks? It's a bit confusing... with out of here he means "out of this mess"? or out of the land of the dead? this last one doesn't make much sense for me... :eek:

Shuz
02-13-2005, 02:04 AM
I think someone said in another thread that Salvador was one of the first victims of the ticket stealing scheme. Hector(with his access to DOD resources) stole Sal's ticket before he even knew he had one and then tricked him into thinking he had to work for the DOD. While working there Sal uncovered the corruption and formed the LSA oblivious to the fact he had a NN ticket. Manny says at the end of the game something like "So Sal had a NN ticket after all".

And also, I think Manny says Meche is his only way out of here because by saving her he can redeem himself with the DOD and leave the LotD.

AdventureLover
02-13-2005, 08:44 PM
That sounds right.

VampireNaomi
02-13-2005, 10:57 PM
I have to agree with Shuz. That's a great theory and makes sense.

Yohein
02-14-2005, 08:49 AM
I've already thought that but...
Remember the trophy in Domino's office, it was made of coral and it said "Congratulations for your new work, Domino - Hector"... so, it means that Hector already bought the factory before the corruption began (and Domino promoted to the top of the company). So, if they already had the factory... why they didn't send Salvador there? it's very imprudent from Hector to give him a job in the DOD, when he could access to the files of the company and investigate what happen... :eek:

Did you understand me? I did a little mess with my english :o

timfandango
02-15-2005, 10:20 AM
"I have a doubt about Salvador... and maybe about the plot. When we meet Salvador in year 1, he says he was a reaper once, like Manny. Later, at the end of the game, we discover that his NN ticket was stolen by Hector... why he didn't finish in the coral factory like all the others?"

HHmmmmm.......yes, I think you're totally right bud, there is a contradictory within the depths of the Grim Fandango storyline. I can't believe you noticed something like that, very perceptive of you man, however on Lucas Arts defense - I don't think Tim Schafer expected gamers to dwell into the storyline THAT much.

EDIT: By the way there is a PM waiting for you VampireNaomi.

Yohein
02-15-2005, 10:37 AM
Well, I don't think you have to study in depth the story for this :p When I played it for the first time, I didn't notice. When I replayed it, with the idea of Salvador having a ticket... it shocked me, nothing else :D
I think Salva lied :eek: :D Strange from him but... "we all have our secrets" :D

timfandango
02-15-2005, 10:46 AM
"we all have our secrets"

True, but Sally has been shown to be a character that will hold off a secret if he feels it is necessary such as hiding the bullet in his tooth during his final exchange with Olivia.......

There may something deeper to what your saying.......let me think it over - there is a significant contradiciton though....

El Virus
02-15-2005, 11:30 AM
I'm a bit late here, but i will say "Welcome!" anyway.

I really think that you people are trying too hard to understand the game's plot, sometimes the least complicated idea is the right one.* Just stop wuestioning the game's plot, and enjoy the ride.

*Occam's Razor. Theory created by the medieval philosopher William of Ockham. Logical principle explaining that the most simple solution is probably correct.
Quote: "One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything"

Yohein
02-15-2005, 12:11 PM
Yeah, but this time, the simple idea: Salvador was a reaper, doesn't look correct :o It's not really important but well... if someone created a Grim Fandango forum is to discuss this kind of things right? :o
The simple solution for me: Salvador lied ;) :p

timfandango
02-15-2005, 12:13 PM
Wow look at the big brain on el virus....

octochan
02-15-2005, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Yohein
I've already thought that but...
Remember the trophy in Domino's office, it was made of coral and it said "Congratulations for your new work, Domino - Hector"... so, it means that Hector already bought the factory before the corruption began (and Domino promoted to the top of the company). So, if they already had the factory... why they didn't send Salvador there? it's very imprudent from Hector to give him a job in the DOD, when he could access to the files of the company and investigate what happen... :eek:

Well, Sal might not have necessarily been a reaper at this particular branch of the DOD, or even the same travel agency, but it's likely they are all owned by Hector. So if Sal wanted to do some snooping around, he would probably be less noticeable than if he did it at the DOD where he had worked. He might even have been fired for the same reasons that Manny had been and then founded the LSA to fight the corporation.

When Manny was terminated, they didn't send him directly to the coral mines either. Domino had to kidnap Meche and use her as bait to get Manny there. It didn't seem like very efficient plan, if they wanted to get a lot of slave labour for the mines. I figure they came up with this plot after Manny had gone after Meche. Domino was afraid that Manny was going to clue into the whole scheme, so he did it to get him out of the way, with the bonus of getting somebody to replace him at the End of the World.
Sal probably just disappeared, so they might have assumed he'd been eaten in the Petrified Forest or something, and was no longer a threat.

AdventureLover
02-15-2005, 05:54 PM
A lot of that makes a lot of sense.

Yohein
02-16-2005, 05:50 AM
Domino and hector don't think the same about Manny. Hector wants him to be sprouted but Domino wants him to be working in the factory. When Manny is fired, Hector says Domino to sprout him but Calavera escaped. Then, Domino finds him in Rubacava and he uses Meche as bait. Thanks to Meche, the plan fails. Later, in Puerto Zapato, Hector attacks again and fails again :rolleyes: He tries to kill Manny :D Domino prefers some "reforms".
By the way, I don't think Hector is the owner of the DOD, it's a government company, I think he "simply" has some contacts and influences in the government.

Other branches of the DOD? I didn't think on that but... well, there is only ONE Department of Death and if Salvador wasn't working in THAT building it's difficult to discover anything :eek:

I think this is not the problem. If Salvador was a victim of the plot and he had to escape, he's not going to work in the same company because he has nothing to discover... they tried to kidnap him! :D A really good evidence (for him)...
So, I don't think he worked as a reaper :o

El Virus
02-16-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by timfandango
Wow look at the big brain on el virus....
Why, just because I was just including some facts on my opinion. But anyway, I read about this theory in Dilbert (Yes the comic by Scott Adams:p), so it has nothing to do with brains...

Also, I have nothing against the fact that you question these parts of the game, one of the main reasons I joined was to give my opinion on those matters. But there are some threads with similar questions, that are quite understandable if you follow the plot.

Oh, and Yohein, good to know that someone can speak my language. In what part of Spain do you live in?

Yohein
02-17-2005, 01:33 PM
Well, I don't know which posts you mean. Are they in this "Land of the Dead forum"? :o Actually I'm a bit lost here :D

Special spanish part of the message for El Virus :rolleyes: :D

Vivo en Madrid ;) Por cierto, te recomiendo que pruebes la versión inglesa del Grim, ya que aunque el doblaje español es muy bueno, la traducción en sí es bastante deficiente (cosas mal traducidas, ni más ni menos:D). Yo la he conseguido y la cantidad de detalles ganados es considerable.

And now I start speaking english again, of course :D

By the way, I think this opened details in the game are quite good ;) I mean, they let you think whatever you like and gives the game more life. Of course, I'm not going to discuss the Celso's case (his wife dies after him and he sets sail of Rubacava 2 months ago... a big mess :D nothing important really, maybe a tribute to Day of the tentacle's time travels and problems? :P
But I think this is more important, maybe Salvador isn't the main character or appears in all chapters... but I think everyone who played Grim Fandango kept in mind all the time, so I wanted to hear some opinions about the subject.

El Virus
02-20-2005, 05:36 AM
Mi tía vive en Madrid hace más de 3 años, según ella, está bastante bien ahí.
La versión en español del Grim me gusta mucho, pero me hubiese comprado la original, pero no la venden mas en mi país.:(

---------

I believe those threads were around, I'll keep looking.
Games and stories like the one in GF leave a lot to think about, so it's really good to question those aspects of the game.