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Darth Andrew
03-26-2005, 11:51 PM
Who thinks that the developers of Empire at War will eventually release an expansion including the Clone Wars sides? Granted, even though the game still hasn't even been released yet, it would make prefect sense. I think it would happen.:lightning

SirPantsAlot
03-27-2005, 05:17 AM
I doubt it... It won't happen.

Dragonball Fan
03-27-2005, 09:46 AM
No, becuase the Old Republic wouldn't stand a chance against the Empire, or even the Rebellion. Same the the feds. If anything, they'll make a EU expansion that goes into the Ssi-Ruuk and Thrawn.

General Nitro
03-27-2005, 11:29 AM
Ssi-ruuk were so lame. I hope they aren't in the expansion pack.

SirPantsAlot
03-27-2005, 12:06 PM
Yeah, Truce at Bakura was rather meh (probably cuz it was writen by a woman :p ) It was the first Star Wars book I've read :o

FroZticles
03-27-2005, 10:55 PM
Nope they won't be adding the PT sides. Maybe they will add Wookiees but who knows.

Toonboy
03-28-2005, 12:30 AM
No offence, but really... an expansion??? The game isn't even released yet, and by judging on LA history of commitment to its customers I doubt we will even see more than a single patch for this game.

Darth Windu
03-28-2005, 12:57 AM
Well, I personally REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE SO. It would be a shame if they didn't because the Republic and Confederacy are so interesting and vital to the SW storyline. It also adds variety, greater online community, more in-depth story etc to the whole game experience. I should also point out that the Republic is far, far cooler than the Empire or Rebellion.

Dragonball - are you serious? Why would LA not add two fleshed-out, pivotal, unique sides, and yet include two very minor 100% EU dies. Are you sure you're not Viceroy in disguise?

Nokill
03-28-2005, 05:28 AM
only when it sells good then there will be an expancion :p

Dagobahn Eagle
03-28-2005, 08:28 AM
No offence, but really... an expansion??? The game isn't even released yet!
Ditto.

Darth Andrew
03-28-2005, 10:27 AM
I'm just trying to start a discussion and see other people's opinions; after all this forum is called "Galactic Discussion", isn't it? Sheesh....

BeBop
03-28-2005, 12:30 PM
I'd like it, no I'd love to see the CIS and the Republic added to the game, but I don't really think it will happen. If LA is really determined to make it just Empire and Rebel, then... they probably will keep it that way... And no I don't think they'd do an expansion pack for the EU.... and Thrawn was part of the Empire, since all we see are the ships, what difference would it make to the game...

DK_Viceroy
03-28-2005, 02:47 PM
WIndu oh great Smeghead even I think adding the Ssi-Ruuk and co in is a mistake if they haven't added in the CiS and the Republic, I may be a Truist but I'd rather see the Movie civs in first.

Besides I'm sure a few people around here know quite well, I love the Confederacy as a civ :D

Dragonball Fan
03-28-2005, 06:43 PM
But the Republic and Feds would get OWNED by the Empire and Rebellion. I mean, in the 30 years from the end of the Republic to the height of the Empire, space battleships changed drastically. The Empire made ships that were twice the size, twice the armament, and twice the defenses as the old ones. Now, the Rebellion HAD to compete some way, so it did the same. Even The Rebellion would be able to kill the Old Republic and feds in space battle easily.

So, if you're going for movie realism, putting the OR and the Feds in is a bad idea.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-28-2005, 07:13 PM
Could a WW I army defeat a WW II army? Fat chance. The Fokkers would get eaten by P-51 fighters and Spitfires. The earliest attempts at tanks would get run over by T-34s, Tigers, and Shermans. And so on.

Likewise, an army from 30 years before the second Death Star would get wiped out easily. Jedi starfighters would have been incinerated by A-Wings (and don't give me any RS nonsense about them being the best fighters in the galaxy - if they were, they wouldn't stop using them), droid control ships would be out-ranged, out-gunned, and slaughtered by Star Destroyers, and so on.

Technology changes very rapidly. Take hyper drives for fighters: In the Clone Wars, hyper drives couldn't be installed in starfighters so they had to use those weird-looking, cumbersome hyperspace rings. However, only a few years later tiny fighters like the A-Wings had their own hyper drives.

A Confederacy fleet wouldn't stand a chance against an Alliance or Imperial fleet.

FroZticles
03-28-2005, 08:26 PM
Actually technology looks better in the PT. Besides the Death Star really nothing from OT is any better than anything from PT. Again people if the whole game was ment to be accurate the Rebels would win every time.

That was the old version of the Jedi Starfighter the new ones are alot more advanced and if a Jedi was the pilot they could out gun a A-wing rebel pilot anyday. Thats why they are the best because they have a Jedi at the controls.

Rebels still could not take on the Republic or the Confederacy with a head to head ground assult. Plus the Republic would still have the Jedi at there side which is why the Republic fell in the first place because the Jedi were wiped out.

I still don't think they will be adding them in though. Windu just sit back and wait for Republic at War :cool:

Dragonball Fan
03-28-2005, 08:31 PM
yes, it LOOKS better in the PT. Maybe that's because of our better technology? WOW, WHAT A SURPRISE.

Dumbass. Also, yes, technology DID change a lot from PT to OT.

Darth Windu
03-28-2005, 10:25 PM
Dragonball/Eagle - Yes, but that example is of when flight was only beginning to be used militarily. On the flip side, could an F-14 take on any other fighter in the world? Yes (apart from the F/A-22) and yet they were in service in 1975! Realistically, there are very little technological differences in so short a timespan.

Also, it was 30 years between TPM and ANH, not between RotS and ANH, so the Clone Wars start roughly 20 years before ANH. In terms of fighters, regardless of whether the technology is there or not, simply having Jedi pilots would give you the best in the galaxy. In addition, with technology, if the OT is so much more advanced than the PT, why does the Rebellion use Correlian Corvette's that were in use during the events of RotS?

There is no good reason for the PT not to be included. In terms of technology, there is no difference in weapons, armour etc - indeed, Clone Troopers look and act far more competent and precise than either Rebels or Stormtroopers, which would mean the Republic has the best infantry.

Dragonball Fan
03-28-2005, 11:34 PM
The Rebellion's a bunch of poor mofos, that's why.

Also, look at the difference between official stats for PT starships and OT starships. Huge difference.

here's the difference between the seemingly good Acclamator (the main Old Republic starship from the Clone Wars) and the Imperial Star Destroyer MkI

http://nifrpg.net/irm/ships/acclamator_military_transport.jpg
Name/Type: Acclamator-class trans-galactic military transport ship
Designer/Manufacturer:Rothana Heavy Engineering
Combat Role: Military Transport
Crew: 600
Length: 752 meters
Speed: 60 MGLT, 950 Kph
Hyperdrive: x0,6
Shield Rating: 1860 SBD (est.)
Hull Rating: 1043 RU (est.)
Weapons: 12 Quad Turbolaser Turrets, 24 Laser Cannons, 4 Strategic Missile/Torpedo Tubes.
Fighter Complement: None.
Troops: 48 AT-TEs, 36 SPHAs, 320 speeder bikes, and 16,000 troopers.
Support Craft: 80 LAAT gunships.





Name/Type: Imperator Mk I-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Lira Wessex / Kuat Drive Yards
Combat Role: Heavy Cruiser
Crew: 26,810 + 275 Gunners
Length: 1605 meters
Speed: 60 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x2
Shield Rating: 4800 SBD
Hull Rating: 2272 RU
Weapons: 60 Taim & Bak XX-9 Heavy Turbolasers (class 5), 60 Borstel NK-7 Ion Cannons (class 3), 10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors (class 6).
Fighter Complement: 6 Squadrons.
Troops: 9,700 Stormtroopers, 20 AT-ATs , 30 AT-STs, 1 Pre-fabricated Garrison Base.
Support Craft: 12 Landing Barges, 8 Lambda-class Shuttles, 15 Stormtrooper Transports, 5 Star Wing Assault Gunboats, variable number of Skipray Blastboats, Gamma-class Assault Shuttles, deep space probes, probe droids and repair and recovery vehicles.



Owned.

Jan Gaarni
03-29-2005, 06:42 AM
Don't forget the 6 dual barreled Heavy Turbolaser turrets, 2 dual barreled Heavy Ion Cannon Turrets, 3 trippel barreled Medium Turrets, and the 2 Quad-Laser Cannon Turrets too. ;)

Cheech Marin
03-29-2005, 08:20 AM
Yeah, don't forget the big globes sitting on top of the bridge tower too (shield generators, not sensor globes). :rolleyes:

stingerhs
03-29-2005, 08:34 AM
why not a whole new clone wars campaign with no alliance or empire units??? that would be pretty cool for an expansion.

still, as stated earlier, isn't a bit early to be discussing an expansion??

@Windu- be very careful with your comparisons between real-world military tech and star wars tech. F-14's have changed a decent amount over the last 30 years (they're currently in the F-14D, which means better engines and better electronics). also, don't forget that the F-14's are being complete phased out of service so that by 2007, they'll be complete replaced by the F/A-18D/E Super Hornets.

further comparisons with technology refinement can be seen in other aircraft such as the vurnerable F-16, which is, i think, the F-16E/F version. The E/F versions are remarkably different from the orignal F-16A versions.

Darth Alec
03-29-2005, 12:41 PM
Ok....... this is abit early isnt it? But still including the PT would be slighty of course wouldent it, it EMPIRE at war but I like the idea of them in an expansion.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-29-2005, 02:33 PM
Yeah, don't forget the big globes sitting on top of the bridge tower too (shield generators, not sensor globes).
They are radars or sensors or both and comm devices.

First of all, don't even think about including "Rogue Squadron" anywhere in your argument. It ranks among the most inaccurate sci-fi games in the world, and the team's known for having a very strong researchophobia.

Second, those A-Wings destroyed them because the shield was down. Every ship that could do so was firing at the Executor, causing shield failures all over the ship. This allowed the two A-Wings to destroy one of the domes as an officer shouted that the shields were down.

Then there's the Star Destroyer blowing up in ROTJ with both domes still intact (I just re-watched the battle, look in the background when Ackbar orders the fleet to "concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer"). If those easy-to-destroy domes were shield generators, they'd be destroyed first.

Also, look at the fact that for every source stating them as shield gens there are two stating that they're radars/sensors (especially seeing that inaccurate, but neat video games like X-Wing, TIE Fighter, and Rogue Squadron II and III don't count).

And if they are shield generators, how come they resemble real-life radars so much Linkie (http://www.heritage.nf.ca/society/stephenville/images/radar02.jpg)?

Last of all, tell me: Since shield generators are so crucial, then why on Earth would they be put on the outside of the hull like that, where they could be easily destroyed?

Besides the Death Star really nothing from OT is any better than anything from PT.
Only A-Wings, B-Wings, TIE Defenders, Star Destroyers, and just about every other vehicle and piece of equipment in the movie trilogy:D.

Cheech Marin
03-29-2005, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Last of all, tell me: Since shield generators are so crucial, then why on Earth would they be put on the outside of the hull like that, where they could be easily destroyed?

Why would the Empire use inferior, unshielded, weakly-armoured TIE fighters against superior X-Wings, Y-Wings, A-Wings, and B-Wings? Why would the Empire use lumbering walkers that can be easily tripped up/smashed to bits by Teddy bears with logs and stones? Why would the Empire equip their best soldiers (who were easily overwhelmed and beaten by said Teddy bears) with easy-to-notice white armour that doesn't even protect them against rocks and sticks, not to mention blasters?

Dagobahn Eagle
03-29-2005, 04:55 PM
Why would the Empire use inferior, unshielded, weakly-armoured TIE fighters against superior X-Wings, Y-Wings, A-Wings, and B-Wings?
Because TIEs are more cheap.
Besides, once the advanced fighters like the A-Wing came into play, the imperials upgraded their fighter fleet with TIE Defenders, etc.

Why would the Empire use lumbering walkers that can be easily tripped up/smashed to bits by Teddy bears with logs and stones?
AT-STs: Same reason as TIE Fighters.
AT-ATs: They didn't consider that speeders could trip those walkers. Heard about improvisation;)?

Why would the Empire equip their best soldiers (who were easily overwhelmed and beaten by said Teddy bears) with easy-to-notice white armour that doesn't even protect them against rocks and sticks, not to mention blasters?
Because the Empire is really arrogant.
And there's no movie evidence they were getting their butts handed to them.

As a side note, some US soldiers arriving in Iraq were given forest camo suits by mistake and had to go into the field with them. And in WW II, far from all infantry in snowy wastes wore white suits. Modern fighters are grey, even though the ground below them is either green or yellow, most of the time, or dark blue sea. And so on.

And who says armour doesn't protect against rocks and sticks? Hardly anyone I know. They were hit in the head by rocks and a few fell over from that, and that hardly equals being killed by them.

And who says armour can repel blaster bolts more than Kevlar vests can repel AK-47 shells?

C'mon, give me a challenge... Or don't, as we're getting far off of topic:p...

Jan Gaarni
03-29-2005, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Also, look at the fact that for every source stating them as shield gens there are two stating that they're radars/sensors (especially seeing that inaccurate, but neat video games like X-Wing, TIE Fighter, and Rogue Squadron II and III don't count).
Well, I don't know about that, but the very first info about stardestroyers mentions them as sensory globes. This was back in 1978. It pretty much predates anything coming out after, except for the movies, which doesn't really prove or disprove them being either shield generators or sensory domes.

I believe the first notion that they were shield generators was mentioned in relations to a game, in order to make the star destroyers easier to defeat. If my memory serves me right, it was West End Games that first brought this idea on to the table, completelly overlooking previous sources. It's not the first time they have gone their own ways. :)
The Executors 5-mile (8 km) falacy comes to mind, which I believe they haven't corrected yet, even though more credible sources not too long ago like say StarWars.Com and the New Essential Guide series has updated it to around a more realistic 8 mile (12.8 km) lenght (though it still seems to be even larger according to the canon source).



EDIT: I checked just to be sure, and it wasn't West End Games fault after all. It was actually video games that introduced the whole shield globe idea in the late 80's. :)

Here's what ILM had to say about the scene with the A-Wing crashing into the Executors bridge back in -83:

We're also still working on the sequence where Mad Max crashes his A-wing into Vader's ship and causes the star destroyer to lose control and crash into the Deathstar. The penetration shot with the mushroom-cloud explosion we've had for some time, and we've got the shot where the ship's been hit and is starting to heel over. A very large explosion is coming out of the bridge area and it's causing several others to go as well; and one of the big radar domes up on top has been blown away, and that's spewing flames. It's pretty spectacular. Between that sort of closeup of the bridge section and the long-shot of the surface, we need two more cuts of the ship continuing to heel over and dropping towards the Deathstar like an arrow. We've shot a number of elements on those - explosions and things that have to be projected onto the miniatures - and so they're pretty much ready to go. Don Dow will be shooting those tomorrow.

CINEFEX #13, p.55, 3 February 1983
Richard Edlund (who shared ILM's 1983 Academy Award for ROTJ special effects).

Cheech Marin
03-29-2005, 07:50 PM
Besides, once the advanced fighters like the A-Wing came into play, the imperials upgraded their fighter fleet with TIE Defenders, etc.

Yeah, all 20 of them sure made a big difference.

Because the Empire is really arrogant.

Arrogant enough to place bridge shield generators outside of the starship?( The globes on top of the bridge tower most likely don't provide all the shielding for the entire ship, just the bridge area.)

As a side note, some US soldiers arriving in Iraq were given forest camo suits by mistake and had to go into the field with them.

That's called the government making a mistake. Also, the Emperor personally made sure to place his best legion on Endor, it was his own trap after all. Good thing he was not intelligent enough to order his soldiers to wear forest camo.


And who says armour can repel blaster bolts more than Kevlar vests can repel AK-47 shells?


R. Lee Ermey says so. He shot an AK-47 at an Interceptor Vest with the ceramic instert at 20 yards on the show Mail Call. The plate stopped the round cold.

Sorry about going so far off topic about this, everyone else.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-29-2005, 08:01 PM
We were discussing the x-pack and went off-topic to who would win, the rebels or old republic. Then we went off-topic to shield generators, then off-topic from that to discussing imperial strategy. Nah, I've seen worse:rolleyes:...

I think one neat addition would be some new maps, features, vehicles, and so on, and additions to the existing civilizations.

New civs? I'm guessing the Confederacy and the Republic, and/or the Remnants and the New Republic.

Cheech Marin
03-29-2005, 08:18 PM
If there will be a Clone Wars expansion, I certainly hope that the Empire and Alliance can't fight the Republic and Separatists (at least in campaign mode). Think about it, they're from completely different time periods.

Hmm, what would be nice is if they made one game with three different time periods: Clone Wars, Galactic Civil War, and Post-Endor New Republic Era.

Dagobahn Eagle, what do you say we bury the lightsaber and quit this pointless bickering?

Darth Windu
03-29-2005, 11:05 PM
Getting back to the topic at hand, the easiest way to add the Republic and CIS would be to give them a different 'age' to fight in, so they dont interact with the Empire and Rebellion, but also allow a 'free-for-all' where anyone can fight anyone.

One fun thing with an expansion would also be, for example, using the Republic to fight the Empire during the events of the OT and so on.

BeBop
03-30-2005, 12:56 AM
Darth Windu's age Idea sounds good to me. If used, the game would probably be constructed like this:

For Sp Campaign, have the ability to choose which age you fight in.
In MP, as the host, you could choose from 3 options, fight in the Galactic Civil War Era, Clone War Era, Or as Darth Windu said, Free for all. This way if you were the host you could force people to play in one era or just mix and match.

FroZticles
03-30-2005, 01:24 AM
All those vehicles and technology was not enough to stop a band of Rebels and some fuzzy little bears from destroying the Empire. Technology is nothing when you compare how huge the Empire was with technology and it got beaten by a few rusty looking fighters.

I'd rather have a whole new RTS with the PT civs instead of sharing the spotlight with OT like SWGB. In MP not much point in making a Clone era or a CW era just put Clone era civs only in your game title :p

DK_Viceroy
03-30-2005, 06:26 AM
The reason why Windu's ideas sound good ie because he pinched the ones I came up with ages ago and is now using them in the hopes that I've fprgotten all about them.

both the EU and the Films say that the Dones on the Brdige tower are Sheild Generators ergo they are sheild generators don't listen to Sound Directors or whoever that quote is from they are obviously raving mad.

The Guru of Star wars Truism has spoken so shut your yapping holes about the sheild generators.

and PT V OT there's a little thing called Balance and Gameplay that makes that possible. Indeed a lot of the OT ships have weaknesses that wern't in the PT, the mian reasons were that is because the Psychological element was dragged in.

Don't tell me someone is going to Debate a Tri-Droid Fighter would get beaten by a TIE Fighter or a Geonosian Fighter by a TIE Interceeptor?

Darth Alec
03-30-2005, 02:17 PM
Now that were back on track I'd sa that Windu's idea was the best right now.
Getting back to the topic at hand, the easiest way to add the Republic and CIS would be to give them a different 'age' to fight in, so they dont interact with the Empire and Rebellion, but also allow a 'free-for-all' where anyone can fight anyone.

Witch isnt a bad idea at all.

Dagobahn Eagle
03-30-2005, 06:17 PM
It worked very well in Empires.

You could even transition from the "old times" to World War I in the same game.

For example, if you played Korea (which was not in WW I or WW II), when approaching WW I you'd get a dialogue box asking you which civilization you want to keep playing as. You effectively turned into that civ, while retaining your army and buildings. But from that point on, you had a new tech tree and new buildings and units to produce.

It was certainly a huge step forward from that old Civ-series/Empire Earth nonsense where, if you start as the Aztecs in the stone age, you'll still play with them in the modern ages...:rolleyes:

Darth Andrew
03-30-2005, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
...the easiest way to add the Republic and CIS would be to give them a different 'age' to fight in, so they dont interact with the Empire and Rebellion, but also allow a 'free-for-all' where anyone can fight anyone.

YES YES YES!!! That's what I meant when I started the topic! Also too, maybe if you beat all four of the capmaigns on the hardest difficuty, you could unlock an 'Alternate Reality' bonus campaign where you would choose your side and the computer would also choose a random side. How about Empire vs. Empire, eh?;) This would be great for those that couldn't play online, as after a while Skirmish would get boring.

Dragonball Fan
03-30-2005, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
The reason why Windu's ideas sound good ie because he pinched the ones I came up with ages ago and is now using them in the hopes that I've fprgotten all about them.

both the EU and the Films say that the Dones on the Brdige tower are Sheild Generators ergo they are sheild generators don't listen to Sound Directors or whoever that quote is from they are obviously raving mad.

The Guru of Star wars Truism has spoken so shut your yapping holes about the sheild generators.

and PT V OT there's a little thing called Balance and Gameplay that makes that possible. Indeed a lot of the OT ships have weaknesses that wern't in the PT, the mian reasons were that is because the Psychological element was dragged in.

Don't tell me someone is going to Debate a Tri-Droid Fighter would get beaten by a TIE Fighter or a Geonosian Fighter by a TIE Interceeptor?

Well, actually it would seem the TIE Interceptor is quite a capable ship. It's very fast, very maneuverable, and has decent weapons. It could beat a Geonosian fighter quite easily.

McCusto
03-30-2005, 08:21 PM
Shouldn't we wait for the acutal game to come out before talking about expansions?

lukeiamyourdad
03-30-2005, 08:49 PM
I'm not so sure about the free-for-all thing.

You have to realise that for MP, you'd need true balance. Rebalancing the already two well balanced civs with the two new ones is a lot of work and we might see a lot being sacrificed.

Darth Windu
03-31-2005, 02:18 AM
luke - I don't see how, after all you're not really re-balancing the original two against the new two as you are balancing the new two against the old two. Also, with the Empire having at least one Republic unit (Assault Ship) it would actually seem to be fairly easy because there is a common frame of reference - ie the Assault Ship for the Empire and Republic is the same, so you develop the strengths of all other CW units based on their relative strength to the RAS.

OFF TOPIC

I have always thought the bridge towers were shield generators simply because as soon as one of them explodes, one of the bridge crew calls out "we've lost our bridge deflector shields". I suppose you could argue that they only found when things started exploding, but that doesnt really say much for Imperial sensor systems now does it?

DK_Viceroy
03-31-2005, 03:52 AM
I wouldn't say that though the TIE Interceptorhas no sheilds the Geonosian Fighter does, both have about equal manoevarability before you mention the sheilds they're evenly matched but when you bring in sheilds the TIE looses unless of course you want to debate X-Wing>TIE Interceptor.

lukeiamyourdad
03-31-2005, 06:28 AM
You need to rebalance things, if only to tweak a few elements if not more. That is inevitable when doubling the civ number.

TheMonsterOfTheIsland
04-24-2005, 02:50 PM
If LucasArts were to do a Republic/Confederacy expansion (which I think would be amazing), they would probably do something similar to Battlefront: the CIS would be isolated to fighting the Republic, and the Empire would be isolated to fighting the Rebellion.

Also, they should do an expansion based on the New Jedi Order series. It probably won't happen (license problems, plus Lucas hates it), but it would still be awesome.

Also, do we know if the game is completely isolated to before Episode IV? Because that would alienate things like the Mon Calamari cruisers, B-Wings, Super Star Destroyers, Dark Troopers, and all sorts of cool toys that really need to be in the game.