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MyKell
04-12-2005, 07:24 PM
I guess I miss the point of this new Alt-Dimension. If I understand correctly, it is a place to put players who do not want to follow your server rules. That way they can FFA with other "rule breakers". Not sure how this is a benefit. If I run a servers with limited slots, eat seem like if you could eat up valuble player slots for people you don't want on your server. You can also force the into alt-dimension, but, anyone who wants to be annoying can just reconnect and move back to primary to continue to break rules. The alternative become to kick and ban so you really have gained nothing but a headace.

New players should not start out in alt-Dimension. It forces all players to take the extra step to move. In addition, it confusses players who are not familar with JA+. Admins now have to waste more time explaining to new players how to switch dimensions and use the console.

I think in order to discourge "rule breakers", you have to isolate them from the rest of the game. Put them in a penitly box, alt-dim them to a place they can not fight anything, or encourge then to leave by freezing them in a mode where as they can do not anything but get bored and leave.

I am not saying I have the answers and I do not claim to know a think about programming in C++. I just don't think alt-dimension solved anything.

MyKell
No Limits Gaming

Neverhoodian
04-12-2005, 09:07 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a competitive gamer, but the only rules I know of in MP are:

1. Use any means necessary to kill your opponents (that includes guns and Force powers, btw).

2. Have fun.

Actually, it sounds like a great idea. The hatred and animosity between "honorz" gamers and competitive gamers has never been able to be peacefully resolved. It sounds like with this new system, those who want to play by the rules of the admin mods could go in and do their thing, while more competitive gamers could stay in the "Alt-Dimension" and happily frag away, like the game's supposed to be played. True, player slots would get filled rather quickly, but it's better than the alternative: a bloody cyber holy war over how the game's played. After all, JA lost a sizeable portion of its gaming community as a result of this conflict of interests.

"Rule breakers" gotta have fun too, you know! ;)

TK-8252
04-12-2005, 10:16 PM
However, Neverhood, it's not set up that way. When you join the game, as I understand, you start out in the "no-laming" zone, so new players (the majority of "lamers") will go about playing the game as intended in the "no-laming" zone and get abused for "laming."

JA+ supporters will say "well these players should go to the laming zone so they don't get abused." Too bad they've forgot one huge problem with that argument: considering that most new players don't know how to change their name from Padawan or how to chat, let alone pull down the console, you can't expect them to know how to change dimensions, especially since they don't even know what "JA+" is. And most h0n0rz crowds aren't exactly "helpful" when it comes to helping out newbies.

It sounds like how the alt-dimension system works now, it's just yet another useless attempt at anti-abuse. If Slider had implimented it the way Amidala suggested, it would actually work. But of course... this didn't happen. Typical.

Neverhoodian
04-13-2005, 12:51 AM
Ooh, I see the problem now. Thanks for the heads up, TK.

That's too bad, as it could've been a great way for both types of gamers to enjoy playing on the same server. A shame it wasn't implemented properly. :(

Slider744
04-13-2005, 07:36 AM
TK-8252, too bad you are again speaking about things you don't know, or you didn't experience or you didn't take time to read ....

by default player are put in the alt dim when they join...

then they have the choice to play in the teaching , dueling, chatting or clan, or rpg zone or stay in the real ffa dimension...

now for those who say it consume player slots, this is wrong because firstable if some player are not wanted on the server , you can ban or kick them,

now if they are wanted on the server, they will not reconnect to be auto unforced to stay in alt dim because they have fun in this alt dim....

now if they don't have their fun in this alt dim, it means that they are real jerk who only want to waste the gameplay and the fun on the server....
so in this case, ban them...

it seems now that a new race of player is appearing signicantly : the class of people who are only joining server in order to waste other player's fun and gameplay... they come to real dimention only to attacks admins or people who are teaching their padawan the attacks ...
admins put them in altdim thinking they are real ffa players.... then they don(t have their fun because they are loosing against reall ffa player because they only know how to kill people when they are saber down and teaching their padawans.....
So they reconnect to the server to be unforce to stay in alt dim and they continue to waste the fun of people and saying insults of type (admin noob, admin abuser..etc....)
then they are banned and they come on the forums to complain about admin abuse pretending they are real competetive gamer and they were banned trying to play the way ""it was meant to be""....while they are just jerk who only want to waste other people gameplay and fun.....

the new alt dim system will separate those jerks from the real ffa player community...
the real ffa player community will be able to havr its fun without wasting other kind of player's fun

for the jerk i can't do nothing for you,,,
sorry
the only think i made for the jerks is
/ignore
/amban
/amkick
/amsilence
anti player fake system

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-14-2005, 02:50 AM
I have to say I agree with slider. If a server uses JA+ 2.3 properly (enables the alternate dimension and makes it the first dimension that players enter) there is really no reason for someone who is forced to the alternate dimension for breaking the server's rules to disconnect, reconnect, enter the server in the alternate dimension, then switch to the primary dimension and go back to breaking the rules except if they are, as slider says, a "jerk". I don't think anyone should disagree that that "jerk" should be kicked or banned. Not humiliated or abused, just kicked or banned, range banned if necessary.

It's one thing for a new player who doesn't even know what "laming" is to innocently "lame" people, it's totally different for someone who knows what the rules are yet intentionally disregards them.

The alternate dimension gives real FFA players a place to play. There is no need for them to leave the alternate dimension if they don't like or agree with "no laming" rules. The two types of players can co-exist on the same server if they understand how it is set up.

And the theoretical complaint that the server will be filled with "real FFA players" when the server is mainly a "no laming" server is ridiculous. There simply aren't enough "real FFA players" left playing this game to take up any significant number of slots. Look at the All Seeing Eye: Jedi Academy's problem is too many server slots and not enough players, not the opposite. At any given time the majority of Jedi Academy servers have no humans playing on them. It could only be a problem if someone had a small server (<12 slots), and even then it's only theoretical.

If people want to reserve spots, use sv_privateclients.

Really, I have to say I admire slider not only for coming up with such a good idea as the alternate dimension and coding it, but even more so for saying no to all of the power-hungry admins who are addicted to amslay, ampunish, amtele-into-lava, and amempower, and who are terrified and angry at losing even a little bit of their power and unfair advantages. You should see all of the whining and complaining on his forum.

They keep pointing out that a slim majority (52%) of the voters (amslay\ampunish addicts and their clan members) in a poll want to keep the old commands. But when slider ran an earlier poll about removing amslay and ampunish and a much larger majority were in favor of removing those commands, the ampunish addicts conveniently ignored it.

There is only one problem with JA+ 2.3: some clans are staying with 2.2 or 2.3beta1 (that still have the old commands) because they are addicted to amslay, ampunish, amtele-into-lava, and uber-amempower. Unfortunately, those clans run some of the busiest FFA servers, so new players are likely to be attracted to them and fall under the boot of those power-hungry "admins" who secretly enjoy when a "lamer" shows up on their server (some poor kid named Padawan who asks "how do I put color in my name?" and "how do I earn Force points?") so they can "do their job" and show off their powers while "teaching that lamer a lesson".

I wish I could debate those "admins" on slider's forum, but then I would reveal myself and get banned for "flaming", so all I can say is stick to your guns slider, you're doing the right thing. Virtually half the JA+ admins in your own forum support the new admin system, and if ordinary players were to vote 99% of them would support it.

Slider744
04-14-2005, 05:45 AM
Amidala why do you think i will ban you?
i only ban people who are not respecting the rules on the JA+ forum


the rules are simple :
no flaming
respect of other people


if you respect those things there is not reason to be banned

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-14-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Slider744
Amidala why do you think i will ban you?


Because I was IP banned before when I didn't break either one of those rules. Fortunately, I used a different account and posted from a public computer so the ban doesn't keep me from lurking on your forums.

It's OK slider, I still respect you for standing up to all those power-hungry "admins" who want to be junior Emperor Palpatines. I hope you noticed the people who posted on your forum that they "love to be admins". They go to servers not to play and become better players, but to strut around like gods among the lowly players. They support the "no laming" rules because it justifies their existence and "jobs" as admins. Go to JA+ FFA server and watch those "admins". They rarely play. They strut around telling people what to do, or stand around watching players like prison guards.

If success of JA+ 2.3 and the alternate dimension reduces the need for admins to "keep order" and "enforce law", then they might actually have to start playing the game like everyone else (and without uber-amempower too). That thought terrifies and angers them. That's why they want the old commands back, so they can disable the alternate dimension and run things like "gods" as they always have. That's why they aren't upgrading, not so they can continue to "ampunish bots for training" :rolleyes:

Hopefully, players will start to realize that JA+ 2.2 server = abuse from power-addicted admins while JA+ 2.3 server = fun and fairness for everyone, not just admins. Then people will start preferring 2.3 servers, and the 2.2 servers will be haunted only by amslaying, ampunishing, amtele-into-lava, uber-amepowered "admins" who have nothing to do but boss each other around.

Slider744
04-14-2005, 12:39 PM
i think this is more than that amidala

admins really want to prevent real ffa player to coming in and prevent them to destroying their fun or disturbing them when they are teaching their padawans in their academy clan or making rpg things....

the new alt dim reall make it possible to be in a teaching zone with your master teaching you while other player are making a real ffa around you

i don't think admin abuser represent a majority amidala,

Often, admins just want to maintain their own fun and use admin cmd to prevent other player to waste this fun....

a lot of servers have updated to the final 2.3....
it really show that admin abuser are not the majority you were talking about

i think what is seen as a abusing use of JA+ for a real ffa player is most of the time just a way for the admin to prevent those real ffa player to disturb their rpg or teaching clan zone....
Admins that like abusing even on players who are doing nothing wrong are a minority....
because if it wasn't the case, server would not have updated to 2.3....

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-14-2005, 01:24 PM
I hope more JA+ servers upgrade to 2.3, but I am looking right now at the busiest JA+ FFA servers with the All Seeing Eye. The majority of the busiest servers are running versions with ampunish\amslay\amtele-into-lava\uber-amempower:

1. €€€€€JASA, 24/32 players/slots, version 2.3beta1

2. €€€€€JoH, 21/32, version 2.3beta1

3. -=RpG WoRLd =-, 16/26, version 2.3 (with altdim DISABLED)

4. [LoTF] SITH Server, 15/20, version 2.1

5. €€€€€€€€€, 14/20, version 2.3beta2

6. ThE<<HQ>>Angel, 14/16, version 2.3beta1

7. Fun Server, 12/12, version 2.3beta1

8. €€€€€€€€€|DKS| Main FFA, 12/30, version 2.3beta1

9. <FoTF>, 12/14, version 2.3beta1

10. DeutcherPublicServer Alpha 11/11, version 2.3beta1

The only one of the top ten busiest (at the moment, the list changes, obviously) JA+ FFA servers using 2.3final has disabled the alternate dimension. Almost all of the rest, and many other JA+ servers, are staying with the last version that still has ampunish\amslay\amtele-into-lava\uber-amempower.

There are a lot of people addicted to being god-like admins. After becoming so used to being all-powerful bullies on their servers, the admins on the busiest JA+ FFA servers are refusing to give up even a few of their powers. I hope that will change. Unfortunately, new players tend to go to the busiest FFA servers (and\or the ones with the most €€€€ in their names), where they are still likely to be "welcomed" with ampunish, amslay, and amtele-into-lava.

Slider744
04-14-2005, 03:25 PM
€€€€€€€€€, 14/20, version 2.3beta2
is without ampunish and amslay

moreover even in 2.3 final with alt dim disabledn there is not ampunish and amslay....

moreover if a server disable alt dim, it measn they do not want real ffa on the server,

so it means reall ffa player have to go in another server

i therefore don't understand why reall player will want to stay on this server....
so in this server there should be only rpg, hounour players and therefore if you follow those rules i don't think you will be bothered by admins

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-14-2005, 03:54 PM
I know, but my point is out of the top 10 busiest JA+ FFA servers, one is using 2.3beta2 without ampunish and amslay (I didn't check if they have disabled the alternate dimension), one is using 2.3 final but has disabled the alternate dimension, and the other eight are using 2.3beta1 with no alternate dimension feature but with amslay, ampunish, amtele-into-lava, and uber-amempower.

So out of the top 10 busiest JA+ FFA servers, 80% still have ampunish\amslay\amtele-into-lava\uber-amempower, and at most 10% or maybe 0% are using the alternate dimension.

My point is that after a year-and-a-half of amslaying, ampunishing, amtele-into-lava, and uber-amempower, a lot of admins are addicted to that and don't want to give it up. The people who are complaining the most on your forum are the power-addicted admins, not the players. The players (I think) and the "good" admins like the changes.

I think all you can do is ask file sites to disable downloading the older versions, and keep adding more good features to future versions so people will find it harder to be satisfied with the older versions.

TK-8252
04-14-2005, 04:05 PM
My apologies, slider; I had misunderstood what someone else wrote a while back about alt-dimension. I see how it is now.

Slider744
04-14-2005, 04:07 PM
i asked lucasfiles and jK3files to update and delete old version but they didn"'t awnser to me and diddn't update and didn't delelte old version

they are like dead website now

the staff is dead on those website

moreover you should wait 1 month or more until those website will update the files i submited

and ithink there wil be more JA+2.3

wait before saying stats after 2 days of release

but even after several days there is like 70 JA+2.3 server

shukrallah
04-15-2005, 08:03 PM
Slider heres an idea.

If you want to make a contribution to the community, one that will really matter, fix the net code. All this other stuff it pointless. Really. It would show that you are an excellant modder, and not hurt the community, only better it.

Tinny
04-15-2005, 08:55 PM
What is the net code?

Slider744
04-16-2005, 05:11 AM
lukeskywalker1,
i don't search to proove i am an excellent coder...or i am contributing for the commnity...

i know what i am, and i know whether i contributed to better the game ....

you can think all the ideas you want about me, it will not change what i think about myself

jasa-chosen
04-16-2005, 09:39 AM
We have no need for updating the mod to 2.3. We already have amslay ampunish amslap amtele disabled. The only admin command I give to my admins is kick for instructor and kick and ban for knight. Everything else is disabled. Infact we have had them disabled for 6 months. I havent upgraded to 2.3 because I dont like the alt-Dimensions. Our server has very low admin abuse. We have a system that works on our server and always has. Bar is a dualing zone. And the main area is the FFA pit where laming doesnt apply. Infact we have alot of people that play FFA on our server. I have no need to upgrade to the new mod cause I would disable most of it. Why are you so concerned with what we do with our server? If people dont like it then they will not play on it. But as it is now people enjoying playing the way we have it.

Slider744
04-16-2005, 01:46 PM
if you don't like alt dim you can disable it
and take advantage of all new things in 2.3 and bug correction

RpTheHotrod
04-16-2005, 02:46 PM
I highly recommend that you update the server to 2.3

You can then disable everything you do not like, including alt dim. Why update? 2.3 fixes a lot of exploits and possible hacks.

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-16-2005, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by jasa-chosen
We have no need for updating the mod to 2.3. We already have amslay ampunish amslap amtele disabled. The only admin command I give to my admins is kick for instructor and kick and ban for knight. Everything else is disabled. Infact we have had them disabled for 6 months.

That's great! You deserve to be successful. I hope you will serve as an example to other server operators. However, I think a lot of servers staying with 2.3beta1 or 2.2 are doing so because they are addicted to ampunish, amslay, and amtele-into-lava. In fact, several of them posted on the JA+ forum they were not going to update because they "need" those commands. Your server's popularity proves how wrong they are. You can run a busy server without those commands, and keep it popular. In fact, less abusive commands = more popular server. What a concept!

Originally posted by jasa-chosen
Our server has very low admin abuse.

Thanks for at least being honest that there is some ("very low") admin abuse. According to a lot of posters at the JA+ forum, there is never, never, EVER any admin abuse on their servers :rolleyes:

In fact, some say they have never, never, EVER even seen any admin abuse, much less been guilty of it. I guess all the abuse must be going on at one or two "bad" servers somewhere :rolleyes:

Or more likely, they are probably like the "admin" who posted on the JA+ forum that he isn't an admin abuser, then went on to describe how he spams amslap, amslay, and ampunish, before finally amsleeping the "lamer" and turning him into a "kickball" as he described it, slapping and kicking him all over the map while the poor "lamer" is helpless to resist.

shukrallah
04-16-2005, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Tinny
What is the net code?


Its the part of the code that makes the game run online... it sends and recieves data, I guess. All I know is, I heard the netcode was crappy and therefore the game lags a lot more than it should. By make enhancements to the net code someone could decrease the lag on all servers (that run the mod)... possibly. IDK, might not even work.

MyKell
04-16-2005, 10:17 PM
I have heard that some of the functions (emots, cmds, etc) are already coded in the release version of JKA. Modders only have to find them, remove cheat protection and/or create a command to run the function. Raven and Lucasarts left them out because of lag issues. Is there any truth to this?

Slider744
04-17-2005, 04:34 AM
MyKell it is not true

tha emote cmds are not coded

only the animations are coded
...

and if raven would have coded the emote cmd they wouldn't have removed them cause of lag issue

it does not lag more than the engageDuel cmd


lukeskywalker1, by net code you mean client/server protocol, and it is not changable because raven did not release the SDK of the client server code engine

MyKell
04-17-2005, 08:57 AM
Thank you Slider

shukrallah
04-17-2005, 03:35 PM
lukeskywalker1, by net code you mean client/server protocol, and it is not changable because raven did not release the SDK of the client server code engine

Crap, oh well. Wishfull thinking I guess. I figured that since its called the MP SDK they would release the full MP code (including the client/server protocol) but whatever.


BTW, Slider, there are a few prepackaged emotes (the Bow, flousish, etc...)

Slider744
04-18-2005, 12:33 PM
ha yes you are right for the prepackeged emote

i forgot them ¨^^^

jadendecar
04-18-2005, 04:25 PM
hey im sorry but what is the code to switch dimensions.

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-18-2005, 08:06 PM
/amaltdim

Kurgan
04-18-2005, 10:09 PM
Slider, I'm on the staff of LucasFiles, I just haven't been active lately because I've been so busy. However, I believe only Visac has the power to actually delete files that have already been posted (all the rest of us can do is modify the descriptions). So I've asked him specially to fix that per your request (could you contact him again about it, just to make sure he knows?).

Anyway, good luck. I'm glad to see you're improving the situation, I hope the admins go along.



Btw, do you guys think the many empty JA servers are abusive servers that people are rejecting, or are they "competative" servers that the "lamer haters" are avoiding? Or is there some other explanation as to why there are so many empty servers (and have been for so long)? I mean if the game is not popular, fine, but then why do so many people waste time and money hosting?

MyKell
04-18-2005, 10:35 PM
Good question Kurgan. Here is my 2 cents:
My servers have been active for nearly a year. In that time, the majority of people that come to my JA+ server, do so asking for admin right off. When it is not granted, the usually leave.

When I run baseJKA FFA, nobody shows up. When I run baseJKA CTF, players show up but some complain because they can not keep up. It is not fun to admin, when you have to stop every 2 minutes and play police officer. When I run baseJKA DUEL, I get a slow stream of people who are at all skill levels. The games last a while with little or no complaining. I like it the best and use full force (I think that is why it is slow).

I think players are somewhat bored with JKx and use JA+ to liven it up. I have been know to spawn 15-20 custom NPCs in FFA just to have someting better the a dumb BOT roaming around.

I also think gamers are looking for new games that offer new graphics, weapons, etc.

I liked what Force MOD II did for the game. Defeating a Vong (before the patch) was the last time I ever felt a GOOD challenge. The odds were tilted for the VONG, so to win felt real good. Then, a bunch of whiners took that away and turned all FM3 servers to RPG. RPG is fine, but is that not what SWG is for?

Anyway, that is my comments.

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-19-2005, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Kurgan
Btw, do you guys think the many empty JA servers are abusive servers that people are rejecting, or are they "competative" servers that the "lamer haters" are avoiding? Or is there some other explanation as to why there are so many empty servers (and have been for so long)? I mean if the game is not popular, fine, but then why do so many people waste time and money hosting?

Originally posted by MyKell
Good question Kurgan. Here is my 2 cents:
My servers have been active for nearly a year. In that time, the majority of people that come to my JA+ server, do so asking for admin right off. When it is not granted, the usually leave.


Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
It's OK slider, I still respect you for standing up to all those power-hungry "admins" who want to be junior Emperor Palpatines. I hope you noticed the people who posted on your forum that they "love to be admins". They go to servers not to play and become better players, but to strut around like gods among the lowly players. They support the "no laming" rules because it justifies their existence and "jobs" as admins. Go to JA+ FFA server and watch those "admins". They rarely play. They strut around telling people what to do, or stand around watching players like prison guards.


I would guess that a lot of empty JA+ "no laming" servers are run by "wannabe admins". The lure of "easy power and respect" by simply becoming an "admin" and instantly having all kinds of "super powers" that common players don't have is very seductive, attractive, and addictive to a lot of adolescent males. Don't forget the demographic of the vast majority of the people playing this game (males 12 to 21 years old).

The "admin wannabes" aren't patient, dedicated, or skilled enough to earn respect the old-fashioned way by being great players, they want it NOW NOW NOW! They see all these other adolescent male "admins" strutting around like gods on servers, and they really really want to be "cool and powerful and feared and respected" like that. Since all they have to do is download JA+ mod and run a server from home (or maybe even rent one for less than a dollar a day), that's what they do. But since there are too many guys who want to be admins for the number of players (and because their abuse of players keeps shrinking the game) you end up with a lot of empty servers. At any given time, even on weekends and evenings, most JA servers have no humans on them. They are empty or have only bots.

And what's the fun of having all kinds of cool super powers if you never use them? That's why many of them are secretly thrilled when a "lamer" (innocent newbie or rule-breaking jerk, it doesn't really matter to them) comes to their server, so they can "feel the power" as they amslap and amsleep (and ampunish and amslay if those are available) the "lamer", or uber-amempower themselves into infinite-Force Count Dooku-and-Yoda. And if there are no lamers around, they figure out some excuse to use those tempting powers anyway. It's sad.

It's one of the tragic, pathetic side-effects of these admin mods: adolescent males who are primarily interested in being god-like "admins", enforcing rules and "punishing rule-breakers", rather than simply playing the game for fun. It's really obvious when you read these posts http://japlus.fragism.com/gl-bin/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1452&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120

Slider744
04-19-2005, 04:30 PM
Amidala as i often say, you just need to be more open minded....

you are classified too much the things...
You always speak about the worst servers...

why don't you also speak about the good one....
perhaps your don't play on the good one...


Moreover you tend to see only the competotive player community without seeing the need of the rpg honour community....

As i said many times in the past, i personally understand and like both type of gaming nad this is the whole point and target of the alternate dimension feature.....

enable player like me to be able to play all the type without going on another server.....

Please Amidala don't awnser to what i said with RUDE word...
I am foreign languages so i insist on the fact that i didn't want to speak hurting your sensibility..
So exuse me if the word i choose are hurting you....

MyKell
04-19-2005, 06:17 PM
It's OK slider, I still respect you for standing up to all those power-hungry "admins" who want to be junior Emperor Palpatines. I hope you noticed the people who posted on your forum that they "love to be admins". They go to servers not to play and become better players, but to strut around like gods among the lowly players. They support the "no laming" rules because it justifies their existence and "jobs" as admins. Go to JA+ FFA server and watch those "admins". They rarely play. They strut around telling people what to do, or stand around watching players like prison guards.

Amen Amidala.

The first server I played on (EJK) was running JA+. It skewd my preception of what JKA was online. I was so new, I did not realize and admin as yelling at me in chat. I got slapped, slayed, punished, and finally banned. The whole time I just thought the force powers were way differant. When I reviewed the text in the console, I was even more confused.

I think it scarred me for life :(

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-19-2005, 06:46 PM
slider, I support the alternate dimension concept, and I hope it becomes popular. It is much better than encouraging abuse and humiliation with amslay, ampunish, amtele-into-lava, etc.

I never said all admins are abusive or want a shortcut to prestige and power, just too many (most?) of them are.

Kurgan asked why there are so many empty servers and I gave him my theory (based upon a lot of observation and running servers for 2 years). You don't have to agree, although there is plenty of evidence to support my theory.

I remind of you of what MyKell posted:

Originally posted by MyKell
In that time, the majority of people that come to my JA+ server, do so asking for admin right off. When it is not granted, the usually leave.

On your own forum, I remember posts where people were told to stop constantly asking to be an admin on your server.

Look at the posts in your own forum with admins who are very angry and upset that they will lose a little bit of their overwhelming powers and "prestige", and who are obsessed with "punishing rule-breakers". Even if everyone is happily playing in the alternate dimension, they can't stand the idea that they are "breaking rules" without being "punished".

I post in a lot of forums and I see a lot of "how do you make a server?" or "my server doesn't work" threads. I ask them why they want to make a server, and they say they are sick of playing on clan servers where the admins are way more "powerful" than they are. I point out that they don't have to make a server, that there are already hundreds of empty servers and they should just arrange with their friends to meet there and play unmolested by admins.

Well, after talking to them more, they aren't interested in that. Why they really want to run their own servers is so they can be admins and amslap other players. Literally, their threads often have questions like "how do I amslap and ampunish people?"

Remember who is downloading and using admin mods. Those powers are intoxicating to adolescent and immature males. That's why professional game programmers are very conservative and restrained about what features they put into their games. They understand their market and don't want to put destructive or unbalancing things into their games, or give immature individuals unfair and potentially abusive "powers". Those features and cvars are cheat-protected for a reason. The professional game programmers exercise good judgement and restraint because they have to, there is money at stake.

But modders have no financial stake or interest in the game. Many of them are only interested in making something as popular as possible, no matter what it takes or what bad effects it might have on the community.

And slider, please notice I am talking in general terms about mods and modders, not any particular mod or modder.

shukrallah
04-19-2005, 08:59 PM
Those powers are intoxicating to adolescent and immature males.

Males? Adolescent? Please, really... you got to quit assuming that those admins are on a lower level than you (IE: Opposite Sex, and Younger)

I agree with what you say untill you slant the admins in a direction that may not be true. There ARE female admins. And there ARE admins over 20. And yes, they abuse their "powers" also.

Moreover you tend to see only the competotive player community without seeing the need of the rpg honour community....


The "need" of the honor community? Ummmm... I would say that their need is well met, considering 80% of the servers are honor.

Amidala from Chop Shop
04-19-2005, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Males? Adolescent? Please, really... you got to quit assuming that those admins are on a lower level than you (IE: Opposite Sex, and Younger)

I agree with what you say untill you slant the admins in a direction that may not be true. There ARE female admins. And there ARE admins over 20. And yes, they abuse their "powers" also.


There are female admins? Wow, really? :rolleyes:

Read what I wrote:

Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Don't forget the demographic of the vast majority of the people playing this game (males 12 to 21 years old).

Majority. M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y. I never said "all" admins are males between the ages of 12 and 21 :rolleyes:

A few months ago I had several admins on my servers, with a range of ages and both sexes. None of this "knight" nonsense either, these were RCON admins. All of them had to read a guide, pass a quiz, and promise not to change server settings or even ban people. They were allowed to kick only.

But, come on. What percentage of JA+ sub-admins are males between 12 and 21? 85%? 90%? 95%? The overwhelming majority of JA+ clan admins are teenage or slightly older (but not necessarily more mature) males who hunger for the power and "prestige" of being an "admin".

shukrallah
04-20-2005, 08:16 PM
Your posts jump imply that "Teenage Males" are kinda... what? Abusive? You know what I am saying. Abusive may be the wrong word, but still. Meh .... whatever.

Nalukai
04-22-2005, 01:07 AM
I played on a server last night with the alt dimension had no idea wtf it was... ppl were fragging left and right but i couldnt seem to kill anyone... they enabled it to where you could change in between them yourself with the /amaltdim cmnd in console.... however this is where the abuse began to kick in of it.... there were some nubs on there that would frag you but just when they were about to die or get hit by you they would have the command bound to the key so they would instantly go into alt dim while yopu missed them then come right back out and kill you... doesnt really matter what you do to the mod the nubs will find a way to exploit and abuse it. I actually favored the alt dim but really despise ja+ but now i dont know what to think since ppl can slip in and out at will on frag servers with it.

points at amidalas post... HAHAHA

Teenage mutant nubzor admins!!!!

Slider744
04-22-2005, 03:17 PM
nalukai it seems to you played on a 2.3beta version and not the final one


and also don't forget to install the plugin to take advantage of all

Nalukai
04-23-2005, 01:17 AM
Nah i dont need any plugins... i just want to frag deathmatch style... and if alt dimension does it then im game the way it is.