PDA

View Full Version : Star Wars = Anti-Bush? More people jumping on the misinformed bandwagon. (spoilers?)


El Sitherino
05-18-2005, 06:12 PM
http://pabaah.com/
Check a bit down.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1403562/posts

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/18/movies/MoviesFeatures/18star.html?

NY Times

About the only other things cutting against the "Star Wars" finale were its long running time, 142 minutes, and a bit of a backlash. That was mainly on conservative Web sites, which were reacting to the film's political jabs at President Bush and the war in Iraq, as when Anakin Skywalker, turning to the dark side, warns that "if you're not with me, you're my enemy."

But executives at LucasFilm and Fox said they were unconcerned.

"Nobody cares," Mr. Snyder said. "Is it pro-Republican? Is it pro-Democrat? Nobody cares. It's entertainment."

I'm curious as to what drugs these people are taking to form this conclusion.

TheMadDoofer
05-18-2005, 06:31 PM
Yeah, that's reading a bit too much into it-the movie that is. And that first site sounds so much like a propaganda site it's scary.

Dagobahn Eagle
05-18-2005, 07:08 PM
The Kick The U.N. Out Of The U.S.A. Petition
OK, so the U. N. has been sorting out peace and democracy for years (it assisted elections in 200 nations last year alone) without anyone complaining, but then when it tries to tell the USA what to do, suddenly it becomes a horrific, imperialist organization?

Strange how the Neo-Cons shut up about this evil organization all the time it didn't affect them, then...:D. Sigh. Nothing like sad hilarity to brighten your day.

I sense another Dixie Chicks-like scandal coming up when it comes to Ep 3, though...

When will Hollywood learn? George Lucas and his intergalactic empire have now been added to our official boycott list. Sad...but necessary. A bigger Star Wars fan you'll never find...until now. Our country is at war and Lucas spouts off this crap?
Need I remind these idiots that the plot of Star Wars was made in the seventies?! What was Lucas supposed to do, re-write the whole thing?! Geez. Yes, I can picture Lucas sitting there in the 70's going "let's make this movie to bash this "Bush" fellow if he wins in 30 years... Hmm. Yeah, that sounds good"...

It's called a coincidence, people!

And what's a war got to do with it? Conflict doesn't make dissent evil, last time I checked.

Pabaah: Neo-Con blindness in a nut-shell:(. Again.

I can't wait for 2008:mad:...

IG-64
05-18-2005, 07:10 PM
Even though I am pro-Bush, and even if it was anti-Bush, I could not care less.

"It's f***ing Star Wars"
- Tim Buckley

:D

Dagobahn Eagle
05-18-2005, 07:19 PM
New movies to boycott:
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
What the F[...]k?!:eek:

OK, now I'm not such a genius when it comes to the Hitchhiker series, but I'm pretty sure it was written long before Bush "won" the election:rolleyes: .

And even if it was against Bush, is that such a reason to boycott it? There's anti-homosexuality in Legally Blonde, do I boycott it? No way.

I now have my doubts if that site is even serious in the first place (although it probably is, unfortunately)...

I wrote this little "letter" after looking at their site.

To: Pabaath's staff.
From: A concerned American Patriot™.

Greetings, fellow Servants of the Fatherland. I have for a while attempted to boycott French goods as suggested by your Web Site and that of certain other sites. It's the least I can do to protest against this awful dissent against our Glorious President George Walker Bush Jr., whom I am proud to serve.

However, I need to discuss with you certain problems I have been having with doing this. I am convinced that as you have no doubt put lots of thought into the idea of a boycott, you can surely help me.

First, it was my dumb five-year old cousin who cried for an hour when I threw out her Etch-a-Sketch (a French invention) before walking to the doctor's office. I tried to tell her that it was a machine of the enemy, invented by people who do not want the Americans well, but she wouldn't listen. Typical stupid brats.

Then, it was my visit to the local doctor's office. I of course have done my home-work, and refused to let her use his stethoscope on me. This hampered the progress of the examination significantly, so I hope you can now direct me to a listening device which is not of French origin. Oh, and please - and this is urgent - give me an alternative to pencilin! My health is rapidly decaying, but I can of course not use such French-invented drugs.

The boycott is also sincerely hampering my communication skills. Yesterday I ran into my liberal neighbour and we started talking about Bush, who he of course started whining about. I wanted to tell him to do some research on Bush before he went off and bashed him, but I can't - "Research" derived from the Old French "recerchier"! And I have to use Bush's first or middle name, without calling him "President", 'cause both "President" and "Bush" come from Old French, too!

Finally, there's the fact that my school keeps telling us how great the French are. I'm sick of hearing about people like Paul Revere (you do know he was half-French, right?) and other Frenchies who supposedly "helped" America in times of distress. So far my angry talks with the teacher, dean, and even principal have been unsuccessful. Can anyone help me make them listen?

I hope you can find a solution to my dilemma before I find myself forced to lift my boycott of French goods. I look forward to hearing from you, my fellow American Patriots™.

God Bless,
Řyvind Wallentinsen, a concerned Patriotic American™.

Sources
www.dictionary.com - Origin of words mentioned, such as "President" and "Research".
American Museum of Photography (http://www.photography-museum.com/primer.html) - Albumen photography was invented by the French Louis Desire Blanquart-Evrard.
http://pacs.unica.it/biblio/lesson7.htm - The French Laennec, a student of Napoleon's doctor, invented the stethoscope.
http://www.etch-a-sketch.com/html/history.htm - The French Arthur Granjean invented the Etch-a-Sketch, which he called the "L'Ecran Magique", or the "Magic screen".


I'm not going to send it to them, and it's too rushed anyhow, but it's not too bad, I think... Just something I wrote for the Heck of it:p .

El Sitherino
05-18-2005, 07:58 PM
The problem is it's not just neo-cons. It's liberals as well.

Dagobahn Eagle
05-18-2005, 08:31 PM
Thanks, Chase. You said it for me:p .

TheMadDoofer
05-18-2005, 08:56 PM
I still think you should send that letter. I'd love to see the response.:D

edlib
05-18-2005, 10:37 PM
This is just dumb.

I saw something about this on Fox News the other morning and they seemed torn about it... on the one hand I'm sure they wanted to denounce Lucas and the movie as weenie liberal America-hating anti-Bush propaganda,.. but on the other hand they seemed to hold back, probably cause a new SW movie stands to make the Fox parent company a LOT of money.

It's a movie folks... pure fiction. If you choose to read more into it than that then perhaps it seems that it might just be your own guity conscience talking. ;)

Let 'em boycott it all they want... It will make it easier for me to get a seat! :D




... and it's still gonna make a zillion dollars without them anyway. :dozey:

Joetheeskimo
05-18-2005, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
I'm curious as to what drugs these people are taking to form this conclusion.

Ditto. WTF? :eyeraise:

TiE23
05-18-2005, 11:36 PM
Well, this is pretty obvious. George Lucas went ahead in time to look at the news, went back in time and wrote the script in 2002 just so he could piss of the Bush supporter in his last StarWars movie.
Ah! I guess we're the a**holes now.

And now for everyone's favorite least popular candy! Kit Kats!
http://www.valgourmand.com/v/c/c_nestle_05930.jpg

mmmm, give me a break, give me a break, give a break of that Bull**** bar!

:rolleyes: :p


TiE

Darth Andrew
05-18-2005, 11:44 PM
Like I said in the Ep. III spoiler forums, though they seem similar (and I do support Bush), I don't give a hootinany. Still watch Episode III, I will. *passes popcorn yet again*

kipperthefrog
05-18-2005, 11:47 PM
Even if it was, the bushies should learn something from it. that is how dictatorships usualy start out as explained at the end of this thread. Ckicky (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148824&perpage=10&pagenumber=5)

Darth Andrew
05-19-2005, 12:03 AM
Please. If Bush even tried to start a dictatorship, NONE of the politicians would support it. After all Bush isn't a Sith.:rolleyes: And besides, the next president that doesn't like these laws like the Patriot Act, he or she will repeal them as soon as possible.

Prime
05-19-2005, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Darth Andrew
After all Bush isn't a Sith.:rolleyes: Because the Sith aren't evil enough?

Budomp-domp.

Doomie
05-19-2005, 06:42 AM
Oh noez, Geroge Lucas is trying to brainwash us! Soon, a legion of angry fans will march to the whitehouse, armed with toy lightsabers, to try and behead bush with it!

It's a conpiracy I'm telling you!

Konar
05-19-2005, 07:56 AM
I'm happy to vote emperor Palpatine over J.W.Bush anyday.

* me gets on a plane with his toy lightsaber and starts to storm the lighthouse with it *

Dagobahn Eagle
05-19-2005, 11:05 AM
Please. If Bush even tried to start a dictatorship, NONE of the politicians would support it.
Of course not. I mean, it's not like all these dictators in the past have started dictatorships without being questioned:rolleyes:.

Because the Sith aren't evil enough?
:D
You misunderestimate the power of the Dork side of the Force!

It's a movie folks... pure fiction. If you choose to read more into it than that then perhaps it seems that it might just be your own guity conscience talking.
Not necessarily. Many seemingly innocent books and movies have some really deep political motives. "Gulliver's Travels", with the 6 inch tall "Lilleputians", is actually a satire piece. A strong one, too, at that. Not that it's considered one today, of course:p.

And now for everyone's favorite least popular candy! Kit Kats!
OMG, look:

"Kats" is four letters like "Bush"! it's got a "K" in it like Bush's middle name! And it's got an "S" in it like Bush's last name!:eek:

El Sitherino
05-19-2005, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Not necessarily. Many seemingly innocent books and movies have some really deep political motives. This however is not one of them.

SkinWalker
05-19-2005, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Darth Andrew
And besides, the next president that doesn't like these laws like the Patriot Act, he or she will repeal them as soon as possible.

That quote alone is proof how screwed up our own Republic is. It assumes both that the President is powerful enough to enact/repeal draconian laws at a whim; and that this is okay.

Some quotes:

"We live under the heel of the Patriot Act and in thrall to a league of latter-day über-Federalists who would put “an end to evil”—and to our constitutional Republic."
------ Gore Vidal speakin of Benjamin Franklin's warning that the Republic will erode into despotism when the American People give too much power to the Executive branch.


"So this is how Liberty dies -to thunderous applause."
--- Padme.


Originally posted by Darth Andrew
If Bush even tried to start a dictatorship, NONE of the politicians would support it. After all Bush isn't a Sith.

It could be argued that we are damned close to a dictatorship. And that few are arguing it in the Republican controlled House and Senate. I would also point out that the failure of democracies past have nearly always cooked themselves into dictatorships, and that "sith" isn't an ingredient of any.

Ever notice all the Terror warnings that occured during the campaigns whenever Kerry gained ground. Every notice one after the election? Think it's being investigated? Ever hear of the $8 billion sent to Iraq that was lost? Do you think it's being investigated? Ever hear of the 'irregularities' that occurred in Ohio with regard to electronic voting? Do you think it's being investigated?

Chances are, you never even heard of most of these and other items that are characteristic of dictatorships, but none are being investigated in the Republican controlled House and Senate.

After seeing RotS last night (early this morning), I must say I noticed many things that demonstrated similarity to our current and past governments in the United States.

That's not to say RotS wasn't a good movie or that its entire motivation for being was to make a political statement - it certainly wasn't. But there's nothing wrong with seeing a movie or live theater that can make us think.

SkinWalker
05-19-2005, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
This however is not one of them.

The political motive may not be deep, but it's there. There were several times during the movie that I saw some very obvious criticisms of current government officials. For instance, there's a scene (no spoilers here...) where Palpatine announces that "if you're not with us you're against us," and either Mace or Obi Wan reply that "only the Sith deal in absolutes."

"Producer George Lucas says Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith" has a political warning to the United States about how democracy can be endangered." -- Monster & Critic's Movie News (http://movies.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1000477.php/`Star_Wars`_has_political_message_says_Lucas).

I'd say this is one of those movies with some underlying political statements.

El Sitherino
05-19-2005, 12:44 PM
This is not some shot at Bush. That's not even something that can be credited as being created by Bush, it's been said by countless political leaders throughout history, Hitler especially. Who is one of the models for the emperor and vader.

Anakin saying that is not a subtle way of saying "omg, bush is evil like a sith lord". It's just mere echoing of history. There may be underlying echoes of current day politics, but it's not based on that, as the entire thing was designed in the 70's.

This cannot be seen as an anti-bush film or an anti-american film. Claiming it as such is foolish. History repeats itself, Lucas just happened to have fallen into a place where it did.

I'm not saying there aren't parallels, there are, but it was not intended. Which is why I say it's not one of those movies (stories) that Dagobahn Eagle is talking about. Those were specifically designed to target a single isntance. Star Wars is a timeless epic based on mythology and how good societies of working democratic republics become dictatorships. The keyword is timeless. There will always be a parallel of something in it to current day.

SkinWalker
05-19-2005, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
This cannot be seen as an anti-bush film or an anti-american film. Claiming it as such is foolish.

Then call me foolish. I think it was clearly a pro-American but anti-Bush film and that made it all the more enjoyable for me. Don't get me wrong, I think the anti-Bush themes were subtle and certainly not the dominant themes, and general in that "Bush" refers to would-be dictators in general, but they are present. The "with us or against us" example is but one of several. That line was most recently attributed to Bush & Co. and clearly intentionally placed in the movie.

Indeed, much of Lucas' work has been political, starting with THX-1138 (or whatever it was :) ).

I would definitely agree that the overall theme is timeless and that power corrupts/absolute power corrupts absolutely, but this is also definitely something that we should be mindful of in contemporary times. In getting that message across, Lucas used familiar devices like the "with us/against us" line.

kipperthefrog
05-19-2005, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
This is not some shot at Bush. That's not even something that can be credited as being created by Bush, it's been said by countless political leaders throughout history, Hitler especially. Who is one of the models for the emperor and vader.



Congrats! You just played the Hitler card!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/kipperthefrog/lotr2/hitlercard.jpg

Don't use Emotion based arguments.

Use logic.

(Sorry.. couldn't resist.:p)

toms
05-19-2005, 01:40 PM
huh? The reason all this talk started is because lucas said the movie reflected his fears about bush and us democracy , so its hardly loony for either left or right to be claiming that the movie reflected his fears about bush and us democracy is it?

The quotes from lucas got posted in the senate a few days ago.

Lucas may wish he hadn't mentioned it now, but he must have known the responses it would get, so he can't really be surprised.

I think that its pretty lightweight references though, and you shouldn't allow it to spoil your enjoyment of the film (whether you like bush or not). Its not as if it is the central point of the movie after all! (ie: lots of stuff blowing up and gettig chopped up :D )

El Sitherino
05-19-2005, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by kipperthefrog
Congrats! You just played the Hitler card!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/kipperthefrog/lotr2/hitlercard.jpg

Don't use Emotion based arguments.

Use logic.

(Sorry.. couldn't resist.:p)
Except I didn't play the hitler card. Lucas has said that was his model. Nice try though.



Originally posted by toms
so its hardly loony for either left or right to be claiming that the movie reflected his fears about bush and us democracy is it?



No I'm saying the people claiming it is anti-bush are foolish. The parallels are just coincidence. It was never intended to have politicaly based motives. Not some form of movie to get Bush impeached or anything.

He said it's reflecting his fears now, but when he made it, he had no intentions of making a movie with an underlying political motive with the intention of "attacking" Bush. He's saying it's creepy how close it's getting to being like the current situation. Meaning he didn't intend it.

kipperthefrog
05-19-2005, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
Except I didn't play the hitler card. Lucas has said that was his model. Nice try though.



But It was You who compared it to Hitler none the less.

Mike Windu
05-19-2005, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by kipperthefrog
But It was You who compared it to Hitler none the less.

Yes, but not to show the "evils" of something. He's merely stating that Lucas used Hitler as a model for Vader/Palpy.

Which is the equivalent of me saying President Bush is the model for my character Bresident Push.

Not necessarily evil. :p

Anthony
05-20-2005, 12:04 AM
Seems people always have to find SOMETHING to bitch about.

****sake.

Kurgan
05-20-2005, 04:37 AM
Palpatine was modelled on a lot of historical figures, including Julius Caesar, Hitler and President Nixon.

If anything, the whole "Empire" thing was inspired by the Vietnam war to Lucas in the theme of the unjust war fought for reasons of political power.

Anyway, according to the Weekly Standard, the Empire are the GOOD GUYS, so I guess that means that if the Empire = The Bush Administration, then ROTS is PRO BUSH!

Sides, if they think Bush = Palpatine, doesn't that say more about their own view of the President than it does about Lucas if they automatically associate an evil dictator character with him??

Then again, we know the bad guys lose in the later movies, so I guess Lucas has turned Neo Con in the last 20 years! (I'm totally kidding here of course, I haven't even seen the movie yet and I know these guys are just up to their old tricks...).

They're either misreading the movie with wishful thinking (like the Weekly Standard's Jonathan Last) or they're just trying to get some attention with this new movie.

Face it, EVERY media source has gone ga-ga for the big Star Wars movie and has tried to grab another 15 seconds of fame from it while the hype goes on. I'll wait until the hype has died down a bit before I take any of this seriously, but for right now I'd take what they say with a large helping of salt...

Dagobahn Eagle
05-20-2005, 08:28 AM
Sides, if they think Bush = Palpatine, doesn't that say more about their own view of the President than it does about Lucas if they automatically associate an evil dictator character with him??
:D. I might just pass that one along, if you don't mind.

toms
05-20-2005, 09:13 AM
but it was lucas himself who started the whole discussion by refering to it in an interview at cannes.

I doubt that if he had brought it up many people (cept michael moore fans :p ) would have made any connection.

I think he should probably have waited until after people had watched it before making those comments, as it might put some people with strong political views off what is basically an entertainment flick. But one can only assume he knew what the right wing and international press would make of those comments and wanted to get them into the arena at the time they would get the most coverage.

I don't think there are really any direct analogies to bush, just dictators in general. But its clear from his comments that lucas thinks bush/america is at the very start of the same path.

El Sitherino
05-20-2005, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by toms
but it was lucas himself who started the whole discussion by refering to it in an interview at cannes.

I doubt that if he had brought it up many people (cept michael moore fans :p ) would have made any connection.
It was after he was asked if he had any "inspiration" from the Bush administration. This Star Wars = Anti-Bush thing has been around for weeks before he said anything at Cannes. So no, he didn't bring it up.

abespam
05-20-2005, 09:57 PM
much of the themes of the original SW films, were interelated with issues arising from the Vietnam War. GL has being using some of these themes for the entire saga. GL was relating Nam to Iraq, just to show how some people could interpret the movie as something anti-bush or otherwise. But i agree that these neo-con fanatics are just trying to jump on the SW bandwagon...

that website scares me..

Feanaro
05-21-2005, 10:32 PM
So i hadn't heard about Ep. III "having" anti-Bush tones in it till before the second time i watched it. the first time i watched the movie I thought nothing of it, just that iw was a really friggin' awesome movie. Even the second time watching it, i really had to reach to think that George Lucas would put this in his movie to bash bush. I still didn't find it to be anti-bush. I think you people are just reading into it too much and can't enjoy a great thing. Everything always has to be controversal to you, and i pity you.

SeleneRayne
05-21-2005, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by IG-64

"It's f***ing Star Wars"
- Tim Buckley

:D

lol I love that comic. :D