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View Full Version : Open-ended gameplay for Republic? (Big Ep3 Spoilers)


Darth Windu
05-20-2005, 03:47 AM
WARNING - DO NOT READ IF YOU WISH TO REMAIN SPOILER-FREE - THIS POST CONTAINS BIG, BIG EP3 SPOILERS!



Rightyo. Having seen Ep3, the best SW film, I started thinking about EaW, and the possible addition of the Republic.

Now, when Palpatine initiates 'Order 66', the Jedi die. However, I'm guessing that not all of them (apart from Yoda and Obi) are dead, because we'll probably see the end of them in the upcoming TV shows.

What i'm thinking then is - what if all of the Jedi (including Yoda and Obi) DON'T go into hiding, but manage to collect a force of Ep2-style Clones who somehow haven't obeyed Order 66. Then, starting with a base on the outer rim, you fight with all of the Republic-type forces (Clones, AT-TE's, Gunships etc) against the Empire stationed on Coruscant (Stormies, AT-AT's etc). In this way, you could choose if you want to go the Evil way (Clones look like Ep3, then become the Empire) or the Good way (Clones look like Ep2 and stay that way).

Two options here could be that the Republic takes the place of the Rebellion, or that the Empire, Rebellion and Republic exist at the same time, and so diplomacy could be added. Main reason for this is that I actually really like the Republic, and as a 'possibility' it would be fin to see Clones fighting Stormtroopers.

Thoughts?

DK_Viceroy
05-20-2005, 03:52 AM
if they're gonna stick the Republic in in one form then they should stick in the Confederacy otherwise there's no point having just one of the Clone Wars sides in, it just doesn't make sense.

FroZticles
05-20-2005, 04:16 AM
Just wish Windu would come to terms with having to wait for a Republic and Confed RTS.

DK_Viceroy
05-20-2005, 08:17 AM
If that happened then more than the world would end.

Darth Windu
05-21-2005, 12:55 AM
Viceroy - uh...where did you get the impression I would want the Republic but not the Confederacy? I didn't mention the Confed's because they are almost wiped out when Order 66 is issued.

FroZ - it's just an idea, and besides, why shouldn't I keep wanting the best two sides in the SW series to be in a new RTS?

lukeiamyourdad
05-21-2005, 11:39 AM
Because after a while, it stops being funny and is just irritating.

Darth Windu
05-22-2005, 12:43 AM
Nonetheless, would this be a good feature or not? After all, thats the point of this thread.

Jan Gaarni
05-22-2005, 04:44 AM
That has too much Infinity written all over it for my taste.

Heavyarms
05-22-2005, 09:16 AM
Clones obeyed absolutely. There's no one else left. Sorry Windu.

DK_Viceroy
05-22-2005, 12:38 PM
Windu your wrong on several counts but since your being annoying I'll only point out one of them. The Confederacy is easily the best and you neglected to mention tham at all.

Heavyarms
05-22-2005, 01:36 PM
the thing is ,you are such a purist but you made up a wild EU sort of setting there...

DK_Viceroy
05-22-2005, 05:41 PM
Now all we need is Vostok to cast Windu out of the Purist Order and this day shall be well remembered as the day the forum breathed a sigh of relief.

FroZticles
05-22-2005, 09:45 PM
Windu is not in league with Vostok at the best of times so I don't think Windu can be cast out of something he is not apart of. He is the "Dark Lord of the Purists" so what if he wants to see a Jedi throw a fireball once in a while. :D

BeBop
05-22-2005, 11:21 PM
*sigh* I think we've established by now that the Rep/confeds aren't going to be factions in the initial realease of this game in any form aside from the few remaining CW era ships within the Empire's Tech tree. IMO, this wouldn't be a very good feature at all. The Republic replacing the Rebels... no. There would be nearly no variety, everything would be be for the most part grey and white ships with similar weapons. It looks as of now that any remaining CW ships are the weaker support vessels once there are ISD's on the map/space region. (This is an assumption though so don't ask for sources or anything.) So if the Republic was in and this system still existed, ultimately the Repbulic would be wiped out easily no matter what they had. If they all co-existed, that wouldn't make much sense, diplomacy would be pointless, cause there wouldn't be much point to it, why would the remaining republic ally with the Empire, that only leaves the Rebellion. And same goes for the Rebellion, and if they aren't allied, why fight eachother when they are both fighting against the Empire, it's more like forced diplomacy.

Anyway, I'm tired right now so if what I just said doesn't make sense blame lack of caffiene.

Darth Windu
05-23-2005, 01:19 AM
Jan - excuse my ignorance, but what is 'infinities'? Do you mean the comics?

Viceroy - intelligent, insightful comments as always...

Heavyarms - correct. However, isnt this game supposed to be about fun? Sure, it may not be logical, and sure, it may not fit all that well with the films, but why should that stop anyone from playing around in the SW universe the way they want to?

BeBop - i'm not talking about having it as a permanent part of the game, meerly an option that players could choose to exercise or not. Basically, im looking at more customisation in terms of how the game is played.

FroZ - you DO understand ;)


After giving this a bit of thought, perhaps it isn't the best way to go. Therefore, I have a new idea - a custom civ creator, much like that from "Civ III". In this way, players could create their own civs using any and all combinations of the available civs, and perhaps even allow more communitiy participation much like games such as the "Star Trek: Armada" series where there is a huge number of non-standard ships out there for players to download and use in-game.

Thoughts?

PS: I should also point out that the official site for EaW states that you can "Play out your own personal version of Episode IV: A New Hope" - if my version includes the remnants of the Republic fighting the Empire, why shouldn't I be able to do that? After all, the designers have already said you can play 'what-ifs' like the Rebels still being on Dantooine when the Empire arrives.

lukeiamyourdad
05-23-2005, 12:39 PM
What if the Jedi started using Uzis and Dooku started using fireballs :dozey: ?

When they say what ifs, it doesn't mean that you can do absolutely everything you want. It means changing some parts of the story, not adding some weird ass storyline.

That's where campaign editor comes in.

Darth Windu
05-24-2005, 12:12 AM
luke - alright then, who decides how far you can stray from the pure film story?

lukeiamyourdad
05-24-2005, 12:30 AM
Lucasfilm I believe.

But that's why mods exist. If you check out mods, you'll see weird stuff, from an Uzi to a katana in the Star Wars universe.

That's what they're for. If you want to play the game exactly as you want it, then mod it. People have been doing that for years. Well, pray that the game is easy to mod.

Requesting for all sorts of things to be the way you want them to be in the main game itself is quite unrealistic since it probably isn't the goal of the development team to satisfy everyone's demands.

DK_Viceroy
05-24-2005, 04:45 AM
I beleive their are actually mods in the works for EaW at the moment one called Tiberian Eclipse...

Juggernaut1985
05-24-2005, 05:41 PM
Mods make the game go around. I'd like to see an good balanced EU mod.

Darth Windu
05-24-2005, 11:30 PM
luke - so how is it then that Petroglyph has been given free reign over how the campaigns go in EaW? After all, if this game was supposed to be pure film based, how could you have the Rebellion still on Dantooine when the Empire arrives?

As for modding, that is why I came up with the second idea. Unfortunately though, we all know how very un-mod-friendly lucasarts games are.

Viceroy - uh...how could people be modding the game without knowing how its going to work?

lukeiamyourdad
05-25-2005, 02:00 AM
They give you free reign between the limits set by the game.

You're like on of those people who don't know what freedom means. There are limits to what you can do you know. Hitting people with your car or shooting them will lead you to jail.

That's illogical stupidity what you're asking for. You're asking them to add two whole new civs, yes two whole new civs.

Hell, I want my AT-AT to have hoverlift capabilities, please Petroglyph, satisfy my needs!

Seriously, you really want people to satisfy your personnal needs? Hey, you don't get more self-centered then that.

That's what mods are for and although Lucasarts games are not the most mod friendly out there, it is more then doable, especially combined with a campaign editor. SWGB was modable, so is KOTOR and even JO/JA.

Darth Windu
05-25-2005, 06:25 AM
luke -

You're like on of those people who don't know what freedom means. There are limits to what you can do you know. Hitting people with your car or shooting them will lead you to jail.

lol, what is freedom? There are so many aspects to the word, there is no single definition of the term. o you mean freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom of the press? Then you need to define what degree of freedom you mean. For example, are you allowed to say anything you want, or are there limits placed on what you can say. If so, what are those limits?

That's illogical stupidity what you're asking for. You're asking them to add two whole new civs, yes two whole new civs.

Illogical stupidity to you perhaps, I on the other hand think it is illogical and stupid to only have the pitiful Rebellion and Empire in the game. I also think it is illogical and stupid for people to want 'epic' battles in this game when you are fighting an insurgency - its not epic, so what is your point?
I would also like to know how I would be asking for two new civs if the Republic and Confederacy were already in the game, after all, the whole premise of my idea is 'if the Republic was in the game...'

Seriously, you really want people to satisfy your personnal needs? Hey, you don't get more self-centered then that.

lol, welcome to Capitalism, comrade. Why do companies even make these games in the first place? Are they essential? Do you need these games to surivive? No. You want them because they satisfy your personal needs (read: wants) of enjoyment. Modern western society is selfish, and it is self-centered. Again, what is your point?

That's what mods are for and although Lucasarts games are not the most mod friendly out there, it is more then doable, especially combined with a campaign editor. SWGB was modable, so is KOTOR and even JO/JA.

Modeable perhaps, mod-friendly? No. I've never seen a mod for KotOR, and for games like JO/JA most people can't get involved in creating what they want, they must rely on others. SWGB is another example, sure, you could mod it, but it was extremely difficult to do so.

Overall, as I previously stated what we need is a good, user-friendly editor. Games such as the Civ series and the 'Star Trek: Armada' series are great examples of mod-friendly games, and it would be good if EaW could follow on from these games.

lukeiamyourdad
05-25-2005, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
lol, what is freedom? There are so many aspects to the word, there is no single definition of the term. o you mean freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom of the press? Then you need to define what degree of freedom you mean. For example, are you allowed to say anything you want, or are there limits placed on what you can say. If so, what are those limits?

Society defines those limits. There are laws.
Even so, you're old enough to know the principles of your personnal freedom ending when the other's start. What are you 8?



Originally posted by Darth Windu
Illogical stupidity to you perhaps, I on the other hand think it is illogical and stupid to only have the pitiful Rebellion and Empire in the game. I also think it is illogical and stupid for people to want 'epic' battles in this game when you are fighting an insurgency - its not epic, so what is your point?
I would also like to know how I would be asking for two new civs if the Republic and Confederacy were already in the game, after all, the whole premise of my idea is 'if the Republic was in the game...'


Then why bother? You know what's illogical? Your constant whining about that. They've decided to concentrate on having two civs only. They already have to build the engine from scratch. They'll probably leave the Republic and Confederacy for an expansion.
And how can you NOT have epic battles? Have you seen any of the videos? See those space battles? Can't get more epic then that or do you avoid them simply because you're constantly acting like a child who wants a lollypop?
Oh, and no matter what you think, people like the Old Trilogy.



Originally posted by Darth Windu
lol, welcome to Capitalism, comrade. Why do companies even make these games in the first place? Are they essential? Do you need these games to surivive? No. You want them because they satisfy your personal needs (read: wants) of enjoyment. Modern western society is selfish, and it is self-centered. Again, what is your point?

My point? They don't have to make a game that satisfies every single human's taste. That's impossible.That's the point and I thought it was clear. You're avoiding the argument it seems.



Originally posted by Darth Windu
Modeable perhaps, mod-friendly? No. I've never seen a mod for KotOR, and for games like JO/JA most people can't get involved in creating what they want, they must rely on others. SWGB is another example, sure, you could mod it, but it was extremely difficult to do so.

http://pcgamemods.com/
http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=324

OMG! What are those? MODS! Your searched very far for KOTOR mods! Here's the idea, learn how to mod! Learn how to model or make skins! If you want your perfect game, do it yourself and ask for help if needed.
If you can do it, then do it. It'll take some time but you'll be able to finish it eventually.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
Overall, as I previously stated what we need is a good, user-friendly editor. Games such as the Civ series and the 'Star Trek: Armada' series are great examples of mod-friendly games, and it would be good if EaW could follow on from these games.

And I totally agree about that.

Darth Windu
05-26-2005, 07:39 AM
luke-
Society defines those limits. There are laws.
Even so, you're old enough to know the principles of your personnal freedom ending when the other's start. What are you 8?
No, small bodies called "Governments" define those limits. Freedom, however, is a question of how much you have, not if you have it or not. For example, US citizens now have less freedom than they did before 2001, and that same 'freedom loving' nation committed slavery and attempted genocide. Also, im 20, I already told you that.

(1) Then why bother? You know what's illogical? Your constant whining about that. They've decided to concentrate on having two civs only. They already have to build the engine from scratch. They'll probably leave the Republic and Confederacy for an expansion.
(2) And how can you NOT have epic battles? Have you seen any of the videos? See those space battles? Can't get more epic then that or do you avoid them simply because (3) you're constantly acting like a child who wants a lollypop?
(4) Oh, and no matter what you think, people like the Old Trilogy.
1. lol, i'm not whinging, i'm complaining, there's a difference.
As for epic battles, i'm talking about the films, not the game. Look at it this way, would you expect epic battles in a game featuring the USA and Viet Cong? Would you expect epic battles in a game with the Nazi's against the various European resistance groups? No. Why? Because that is simply not how an insurgency works. The Rebellion is just that, a rebellion. They hurt the Empire and then run away because if they do face them in a straight fight (think of Hu) they would be easily crushed.
2. If you were talking about the Republic and Confederacy, epic is very plausible, however there is nothing 'epic' about the Rebellion vs the Empire, apart from the film storyline.
3. Actually, I don't like lollipops :).
4. Yes, Old people do like the Old Trilogy more which simply shows they lack good taste. Point?

My point? They don't have to make a game that satisfies every single human's taste. That's impossible.That's the point and I thought it was clear. You're avoiding the argument it seems.
Ah, I see. So as long as they satisfy YOUR tastes, it's great, but if someone wants something different, they're being selfish. Gee, THAT's not hippocritical.

OMG! What are those? MODS! Your searched very far for KOTOR mods! Here's the idea, learn how to mod! Learn how to model or make skins! If you want your perfect game, do it yourself and ask for help if needed.
If you can do it, then do it. It'll take some time but you'll be able to finish it eventually.
I never said I searched for any, simply that I hadn't seen any. Perhaps you should pay more attention when you reply ;).
As for making my own mods, I would, except unlike many folks i'm actually kept fairly busy with my studies in international politics which is, funnily enough, slightly more important when it comes to how i use my time.

BeBop
05-26-2005, 04:26 PM
While on the topic of modability, it was said at E3 that EaW is being coded in XML, which means its a whole lot easier to mod than the other games these devs have made.

lukeiamyourdad
05-27-2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu

No, small bodies called "Governments" define those limits. Freedom, however, is a question of how much you have, not if you have it or not. For example, US citizens now have less freedom than they did before 2001, and that same 'freedom loving' nation committed slavery and attempted genocide. Also, im 20, I already told you that.

No US debate should be added here. That was unnecessary. Governments are part of society and society can overthrow a government. Welcome to democracy.
Or if you don't believe it works, then I'm left with nothing.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
1. lol, i'm not whinging, i'm complaining, there's a difference.
As for epic battles, i'm talking about the films, not the game. Look at it this way, would you expect epic battles in a game featuring the USA and Viet Cong? Would you expect epic battles in a game with the Nazi's against the various European resistance groups? No. Why? Because that is simply not how an insurgency works. The Rebellion is just that, a rebellion. They hurt the Empire and then run away because if they do face them in a straight fight (think of Hu) they would be easily crushed.
2. If you were talking about the Republic and Confederacy, epic is very plausible, however there is nothing 'epic' about the Rebellion vs the Empire, apart from the film storyline.
3. Actually, I don't like lollipops :).
4. Yes, Old people do like the Old Trilogy more which simply shows they lack good taste. Point?

1. Constant compaining is whining.
Yet, if you've ever played Battlefield VietNam, you'd know that an epic battle was possible. Epic means large (in general terms) but that doesn't imply waves and waves of infantry getting decimated repeatedly (as was the case of the Clone Wars).
Oh, and yet, the Rebellion won Endor in a head-to-head fight.
2. See no 1
3. Too bad.
4. You're an idiot by making such a statement. I see young kids liking the OT more then the PT, I don't see how anyone can call that poor taste.
It's a difference of opinion not shared by everyone and you're making stupid statements not helping your cause.
Oh, and if you're actually 20, then I'm younger then you and I prefer the OT.
OMG!!!!111!!! UR 4N 0LD M4N!!!1111!!! L0LZ!!!1111one!!!!


Originally posted by Darth Windu
Ah, I see. So as long as they satisfy YOUR tastes, it's great, but if someone wants something different, they're being selfish. Gee, THAT's not hippocritical.


You don't understand any of that. The game is already being made, you CAN'T change anything now. In pre-E@W, wanting this and that was fine but now it becomes constant whining. It's selfish for someone who wants a game already being made, about which a lot of the design is done, to satisfy his exact tastes.
Does it really satisfy my tastes? Not fully, but I'm satisfied with what I'm seeing and won't complaint if they don't include some elements I want because maybe my idea would not be so great in their eyes.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
I never said I searched for any, simply that I hadn't seen any. Perhaps you should pay more attention when you reply ;).

You said that you haven't seen any mods implying that you don't believe they existed. You cannot deny that it sounds exactly like that.

Originally posted by Darth Windu
As for making my own mods, I would, except unlike many folks i'm actually kept fairly busy with my studies in international politics which is, funnily enough, slightly more important when it comes to how i use my time.

So do I have a lot of studies on my hands. This is the end of my semester and yet I can still find some time to learn a bit about modelling here and there. You're impatient. You won't learn everything overnight, it takes time and making small steps is the best way.

Jan Gaarni
05-27-2005, 12:30 PM
Alright, knock it off, or I'll lock it up! :mad:

lukeiamyourdad
05-27-2005, 07:08 PM
You should see the threads back at GB.com...this is actually very light and we're very kind to each other.

DK_Viceroy
06-03-2005, 09:21 AM
Luke please do not drag any of that in here while enjoyable would propably have the effect of having us all banned.

if EaW is gonna be even easier to mod than any of Petroglyph (Read Former Westwood) then it's going to be rediculously easy to mod considering since the CnC Series has a huge repitoire of mods.