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View Full Version : GTA rating changed from M to AO


Mike Windu
07-21-2005, 12:41 AM
http://www.gta-sanandreas.com/

Well, looks like they won. :(

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Announces Conclusion of ESRB Investigation

ESRB assigns "Adults Only 18+" (AO) rating for current version of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas due to unauthorized third party "Hot Coffee" modification

Rockstar Games to cease manufacture of current version of title and offer a downloadable patch to prevent modification of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas for PC

Company lowers third quarter and fiscal year guidance to reflect the expected negative impact on the title's retail performance

I suppose we should recall JO because there was a naked Jan released :eek:

IG-64
07-21-2005, 12:48 AM
Or the sims, since someone got rid of the censor pixelation.

Acrylic
07-21-2005, 12:50 AM
Wouldn't it just be a lot better to take out the "Hot Coffee" thing from the code instead of rating this AO? *sigh*

BongoBob
07-21-2005, 12:54 AM
Well that's just ****ing retarted.

*continues to lose faith in humanity*

Acrylic
07-21-2005, 12:58 AM
I just realized. I should buy this game like, soon, otherwise I won't have a chance of ever getting it. (Or at least for a long while)

Yet again, another *sigh*

TiE23
07-21-2005, 01:02 AM
This is funny. I just think its interesting. Bleh, I don't really care.

TiE

TK-8252
07-21-2005, 02:02 AM
Oh well, I guess politicians have nothing better to do than sit around and condemn a video game they've never played because, although it allows players to murder countless numbers of innocent people, it can be modified to show, gasp, sex scenes (god forbid)!

I mean, it's not like our government has to deal with terrorists... and it's not like we're at war losing lives everyday... nor is this country in massive debt... so really I guess this is the most important issue there is!

*Sigh*

On a serious note, to get this mod you have to download it from the internet... right? If you have access to the internet to download the mod, you also have access to the biggest porn database ever - the internet! Why don't we just make the whole internet for only 21+?

Since kids can't get it in stores, what the hell is stopping them from pirating the game? If they can download the Hot Coffee mod, they can download the game too. Not only will our kids be watching sex scenes, but now they'll be software pirates!

God damn. I could go on and on.

TiE23
07-21-2005, 02:10 AM
This one site let that PatrickW guy take it off.

As a sign of support towards RockStar

http://www.gtagarage.com/mods/show.php?id=28
Note: The link in the description is there is dirty :p

TiE

Black Knight of Keno
07-21-2005, 03:30 AM
They just dont' understand that the PARENTS buy them to their kids. THE KIDS DON'T FREAKIN' BUY THEM!!!

They are just full of BS

TiE23
07-21-2005, 03:43 AM
And whats with that "patch" buisness they are talking about? A patch that you download that renders you incapable of using a mod that you could only obtain by downloading it? Its like giving everyone a bullet proof helmet to everyone in the world to protect themselves from shooting themselves in the head!

TiE

toms
07-21-2005, 07:24 AM
Well, i have to agree with penny arcade that the difference in definition between M and AO is pretty tiny:

The ESRB is suggesting that they may change the rating of the game to Adults Only, a category that by their own definition should see a great deal more use in a retail environment. This is great. Look at the descriptions for these.

MATURETitles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

Or, as the rest of our culture calls it, "Rated R." Check out AO.

ADULTS ONLY Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.

This can't seriously be their distinction. The scenes are longer? I played Resident Evil 4 nearly 26 hours, all told. I'm going to say that maybe nineteen hours of it was spent looking down the iron sights at humanoids. The reality is that once a person is 18, a violent videogame is fairly minor in the spectrum of "adult" content available to that person. Looking over my collection, if the duration of the violence is the distinguishing factor, I'm trying to figure out what purpose Mature serves other than to remove the stigma from otherwise "adult" content and grease the wheels at retail.

In practice i doubt this means anything other than a face-saving exercise with the politicians. It just means the shops will slap AO stickers on current games in stock and then the next batch will be back to M but with the code removed.

Between Rockstar acting like idiots, the ESRB being complete wusses and politicians not having a clue what they are talking about I don't think any side comes out of it looking very clever.

The main problem is the stupid wallmart type shops who refuse to stock AO games (though they have DVDs with just as much adult content next to them) because of some misguided idea that games are just for kids. Then they wonder why no-one wants their games rated AO. Then M becomes the new AO. Then shops stop selling M games, and so on...

[edit]though of course its bound to have some unfortunate unexpected side effects, everything does these days:
The decision could have a sweeping impact on the industry as a whole. The decision forces the ESRB to consider Easter eggs, hidden content and perhaps even the ability to mod a game in rating future games. It also could lead to a crack-down by the industry on the modding community, forcing game developers to spend more time making their games mod and crack proof lest they be held responsible for some future modification of their game.

Astrotoy7
07-21-2005, 10:44 AM
*points at giggles at censorship Nazis*

too bad I dont play GTA to care about this too much, but this is just a tad silly.... Great publicity for Rockstar and GTA tho :D
Every 12yo kids gonna drop their new Harry Potter book and want GTA from momz NOW

Naked Jan had a camel-toe btw :p

mtfbwya

toms
07-21-2005, 11:14 AM
Price is sure gonna go up on ebay :D

It is kind of daft that a game in which you can kill, maim, steal, carjack etc.. get its rating changed because you get to see some non-explicit sex. Weird priorities there.

Of course, in the UK its had an 18 certificate from the beginning, but then unlike the US that isn't a problem as non of the major retailers here refuse to stock 18/AO games and its probably even an advantage - marketing wise.

El Sitherino
07-21-2005, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
*points at giggles at censorship Nazis*

too bad I dont play GTA to care about this too much, but this is just a tad silly.... Great publicity for Rockstar and GTA tho :D
Every 12yo kids gonna drop their new Harry Potter book and want GTA from momz NOW

Naked Jan had a camel-toe btw :p
^

Agreed. Especially about the nekkid Jan.

BongoBob
07-21-2005, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by toms
[edit]though of course its bound to have some unfortunate unexpected side effects, everything does these days:
The decision could have a sweeping impact on the industry as a whole. The decision forces the ESRB to consider Easter eggs, hidden content and perhaps even the ability to mod a game in rating future games. It also could lead to a crack-down by the industry on the modding community, forcing game developers to spend more time making their games mod and crack proof lest they be held responsible for some future modification of their game.


Now, that pisses me off. One of the greatest things about pc games is the ability to make mods. It's what I love about them, and the entire reason I get some games on PC.

Watch them change sims rating to M now. Just watch.

TK-8252
07-21-2005, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Tokarev
I find the ESRB non-trustworthy after this. :mad:

Yeah, and that's truely sad. Are they going by the content of the game, or what the politicians are pressuring?

ADULTS ONLY Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity

Oh... so nudity gets an AO rating? I thought it was the sex scenes. Now the Sims deserves an AO rating because a modder disabled the nudity censor. And what about The Guy Game? All it's about is seeing nude chicks. Yet it has only an M rating.

Geez, this proves that all the politicians target is what's hot in society...

It also could lead to a crack-down by the industry on the modding community, forcing game developers to spend more time making their games mod and crack proof lest they be held responsible for some future modification of their game.

That is one of the most retarded things I've ever read and I hope those who made this decision feel ashamed of themselves. So the developer suffers because some modder wants to make pixel porn? So the entire modding community and all those who download mods suffer because of the one or two nudity mods that are out on the internet? What about games that aren't likely to have nudity mods and don't even have girls in them, like Battlefield?

Originally posted by toms
Between Rockstar acting like idiots

They could have easily argued their way out of this if they pointed out all the other games that got by with an M rating.

...And they could have pointed out that anyone who deems nudity to be worse than murder is a god damn idiot.

TiE23
07-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by BongoBob
Now, that pisses me off. One of the greatest things about pc games is the ability to make mods. It's what I love about them, and the entire reason I get some games on PC.

Watch them change sims rating to M now. Just watch. Add UT 2003/4 and HL2 to that list.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Naked Jan had a camel-toe btw :p

mtfbwya
You should check out the HL2 Nude Alyx skin thing... bump mapping helps >_>

Originally posted by TK-8252
Oh... so nudity gets an AO rating? I thought it was the sex scenes. Now the Sims deserves an AO rating because a modder disabled the nudity censor.
No, your wrong about that, in the Sims 2 the sims have the genetalia of manequins. So when the censor bar disapears, giving you nippleless and crotchless bodies. Hell, my sister plays without it cause its really stupid looking. And then you download new skins that have the nipples and stuff painted on. That whole make it AO rated. But Maxis did not make that, that is a third party modification, and if you do not want it, don't teach your 10 yearold how to download the skins and how to install them.

TiE

BongoBob
07-21-2005, 05:24 PM
It's not because of the nudity, but because of the *EXTREMELY* fake sex scenes.

That doesn't make it any less retarted though.

TK-8252
07-21-2005, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by BongoBob
It's not because of the nudity, but because of the *EXTREMELY* fake sex scenes.

But the description of AO says nudity...

ADULTS ONLY Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity

Which is really, REALLY retarded because for some reason, seeing the human body is worse than going out and murdering people...

El Sitherino
07-21-2005, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by TiE 23
No, your wrong about that, in the Sims 2 the sims have the genetalia of manequins. So when the censor bar disapears, giving you nippleless and crotchless bodies. Hell, my sister plays without it cause its really stupid looking. And then you download new skins that have the nipples and stuff painted on. That whole make it AO rated. But Maxis did not make that, that is a third party modification, and if you do not want it, don't teach your 10 yearold how to download the skins and how to install them.

TiE

He said Sims though, as in the first one. In which they weren't manequin'd.

Originally posted by TK-8252
Which is really, REALLY retarded because for some reason, seeing the human body is worse than going out and murdering people... Penis' are evil and funbags are a sin.

shukrallah
07-21-2005, 07:37 PM
I could be wrong, but I bet that RockStar didn't write a disclaimer about mods like LucasArts and did with JK2 and JKA. And if they did.. .then... well, I guess I'll shut up... lol. I say this because Max Payne, and Max Payne 2 are both Single Player games, that can be modded and Rockstar gives no disclaimer.

But the JK series manuels say clearly that LucasArts is NOT responsible for these mods, and no legal crap can happen to them because of a mod. This prevents "nude jan" skins from changing a T rated JK game, to a AO rated JK game.

Not to mention, many games today say "game experience is likley to change online" underneath of the rating. Technically, this should apply to mods, even though GTA isn't an online game.

But crap, I really don't care, as the series means nothing to me. This is one reason why I am sticking with consoles. Mods are great, and I loved editing the JK games, but I have a lot legal concerns. You know.. copywrite infringment, etc...

And yeah, places like walmart and maybe gamestop will pull this game off the shelves immediatly. I have never seen an AO game in a store. Ever. I can't really say I have looked for one...

Neverhoodian
07-21-2005, 08:04 PM
In a way, I'm not surprised at this latest development in the whole "Hot Coffee" incident. The edgy, controversial tone and widespread popularity of the Grand Theft Auto series have caused the series to be targeted in the past by politicians and special interest groups numerous times.

Though I disagree with claims that Rockstar's games and gaming as a whole are the cause of youth violence and "moral degradation," I have to admit that Rockstar practically asked for this latest development. They were the ones who designed the sex mini-game in the first place, after all. Even though it was never officially included in the game, the data is still there nonetheless. I'm sure they were also well aware that there are mod communities for practically every PC game out there (as well as folks who illegally tamper with consoles) who literally volunteer their own spare time to unearth such secrets. They are also undoubtedly well aware of their infamy amongst certain politicians and interest groups, who waste no opportunity to demonize their games. Even though I think it's unfortunate that this incident has grown to the magnitude that it is today, I have to say that Rockstar was simply looking for trouble this time around.

That said, however, I am annoyed (though not particularly surprised) at the latent hypocrisy in all of this. San Andreas is not the only recent game that contains scenes of nudity. God of War (which was rated "M") contains nudity, and you don't even have to play The Guy Game (again, rated "M") to realize that it's all about naked women. Yet those games slipped under the radar, with only scattered protests that fell on deaf ears. Just one little mini-game that wasn't even meant to be played though, and San Andreas gets the "AO" rating slapped on it. If the ESRB is concerned about nudity, why haven't God of War and The Guy Game been given "AO" ratings as well?

It ticks me off that gaming always seems to get the most negative publicity for things like this and all the blame for the latest Columbine or other socially/morally unacceptable act. Gaming is but one facet of a vast entertainment market, with practially every facet of it containing similar amounts of violent or sexually oriented material. Radio stations play rap tunes with lyrics about humping ho's and b*tches and capping folks, but no one seems to complain. Kids can go to "R" rated movies as long as an adult comes along, but no one seems to complain. The internet is the largest provider of porn and smut, but no one seems to complain.

Parents have a big role to play as well. One time when I was buying a used game at GameStop, a mother came in looking for an Xbox game for her kids. Without really thinking about it, I recommended Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30. When an employee at the counter asked her how old her children were, she told him that they were five to seven years old. Upon hearing that, both I and the employee tried fervently to persuade her to buy a more family-friendly game, telling her that Brothers in Arms contains intense violence and strong language (one of the few games where the "f-word" is used liberally without censoring). She decided to go with Brothers in Arms anyway, despite our best efforts to politely dissuade her. Indeed, it seemed that our arguments that it might be too mature for children actually helped her decide on buying it. I've been more cautious in my game recommendations after that particular incident.

She isn't the only parent, either. In my latest issue of Game Informer, it stated that over half of parents in a European study of video games say they don't care what games their kids buy, even if they might not like its content. Now I'm not saying that games should be regulated in sales to minors by rating, but I would like a little more common sense to be used. Every child is different, and different kids can handle potentially violent/sexual or disturbing scenes at different ages. It should be up the parent to know what their child can handle as well as the child knowing their own limitations.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that gaming is too often the scapegoat. There are so many factors to take into account that one simply cannot blame a single aspect for all of society's woes.

Dang, this has become one marathon post! I didn't mean to carry on this long. Well, if you're still awake after reading this, I thank you for your time.

El Sitherino
07-21-2005, 09:20 PM
Let's not forget the playboy game. Seen it at blockbuster a few times when getting games around the s and p letters. It's only M, yet you know playboy = nude models.

acdcfanbill
07-21-2005, 10:42 PM
****! they gave in :(

TiE23
07-21-2005, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
He said Sims though, as in the first one. In which they weren't manequin'd. They were manequin'd, they never included nudity. Besides, in the Sims, you could move the shower the sim was in and it would remove the bar with it, and they were still manequin'd.

Proof:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Tie23/nakeded.jpg
annnndd:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Tie23/nakeded2.jpg
Listen to the guy who has been playing the Sims since 1999, thanks.

TiE

El Sitherino
07-21-2005, 11:54 PM
You probably got the one they had at walmart. But mine had dong and nipple.


And I have been playing just as long as you.

TiE23
07-22-2005, 12:00 AM
I got mine at Target, and you probably did one of two things: Downloaded a skin mod that gave them "dongs and nipples," or you downloaded a family that was nude.

TiE

El Sitherino
07-22-2005, 12:06 AM
Or perhaps I just got the patch and that was it?

TiE23
07-22-2005, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
Or perhaps I just got the patch and that was it? Proof?

TiE

IG-64
07-22-2005, 12:18 AM
Tie is right, sims never had any detail. Which makes more sense, because it would take extra time to model something no one's supposed to see.

This entire thing is completely dumb. The game makers were dumb for not taking it out of the game before releaseing it. The rest of the people were dumb to get so upset over "game sex" anyways.

TiE23
07-22-2005, 12:24 AM
I like this quote from XboxAddict.com (http://www.xboxaddict.com) about the AO rating thing.

Originally posted by XboxAddict.com
Hysteria and political opportunists win the day as GTA: San Andreas has been upgraded from Mature to Adults Only. Take Two has vowed to make a new version of the game that will conform the Mature rating. Meanwhile, drive by murdering is still "ok".

Irony, yes. But I do like the fact that its okay to have violence, cause you know, I enjoy blowing half of a baddie's head off in Soldier of Fortune 2 as everyone else. Its just natural to do stuff like that. :p

TiE

Astrotoy7
07-22-2005, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
.. But mine had dong and nipple....

toms
07-22-2005, 10:40 AM
In terms of Rockstar being idiots, or planning for this publicity it might matter whether the content is already included, or third party.

But in terms of what the kid sees, it makes no difference whatever whether the content was included int he game but deactivated, or was added with a skin. Its still a case of downloading a patch and running it... then getting the "adult content".

I suspect this will lead to a lot more LA style unreadable legal discalimers to try and stop comanies being held resonsible for any Mods, Patches or Skins that might come out. In today's sue-everyone society they are bound to want to cover their backs. Hopefully it won't prevent people being creative and making cool mods though.

Much as i like the GTA games (and they are good games) you do feel that rockstar does this sort of thing alot in order to get the publicity. This time it may have backfired on them as they probably didn't expect the ESRB to change the rating, and the associated re-pressing costs.

I think the important thing with regards to an AO rating seems to be "prolonged sexual acts".. rather than just nudity. So god of war, for example, gets an M, but the Hot Coffee mod actually shows them having sex (no penetration or organs, but the action is there). In many ways this makes sense, and is a bit like the film ratings systems in a lot of countries where nudity isn't considered taboo.
Their priorities are still out of whack though when they consider non-explicit sex to be worse than violent murder.
And as, practically, there is no difference between 1st/3rd party content when a patch is needed they can't expect to rate every upcoming game based on anything that MIGHT be done to it. (like the sims, and every other game which as nude patches)
So I guess this was more of a one-off public relations exercise... and i can't say rockstar didn't bring it on themselves.

Darth Groovy
07-22-2005, 03:13 PM
I had to pull all these off the shelf yesterday. GameStop can no longer buy sell or trade this game.

My advice is if you have this game, hang on to it. It may become a collector's item.

I am actually kind of relieved that we no longer sell this title. I just don't feel it was good for little kids, and you'd be surprised how many parents could care less about the ESBR ratings. :(

TiE23
07-22-2005, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by toms
I suspect this will lead to a lot more LA style unreadable legal discalimers to try and stop comanies being held resonsible for any Mods, Patches or Skins that might come out. In today's sue-everyone society they are bound to want to cover their backs. Hopefully it won't prevent people being creative and making cool mods though.
Duh. If someone made a mod for HL2 where you could have sex like in Hot Coffee, VALVe would never be condidered responsible. Its just that someone discovered San Andreas' "Dirty Little Sercret" and exposed it to the world. And since it could appear on the consoles, it showed it was already in the game. And ESRB is supposed to take into account every single thing that is included in the coding. Even though from what we know has never happened before (adult content hidden in the game) has never been attemted or found before.

For example: I used to do a little mapping for UT2003, so I know how a lot of the stuff works. The game includes lots of textures and stuff, well over 2,000 is my estimate. Well, if there was a single texture that had something adult rated, like a porno picture, they would be busted. These rules would be included even if only an official patch or download included content that was bad.

On a final note: You don't see VALVe getting busted by ESRB because people can use pornographic sprays in Counter Strike, do you?

TiE

acdcfanbill
07-22-2005, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
I had to pull all these off the shelf yesterday. GameStop can no longer buy sell or trade this game.

My advice is if you have this game, hang on to it. It may become a collector's item.

I am actually kind of relieved that we no longer sell this title. I just don't feel it was good for little kids, and you'd be surprised how many parents could care less about the ESBR ratings. :( im appalled :s This shouldnt even be rated AO, at least i bought it, cripes...

too bad im not a menopause induced crazy mother who can go on rampages and destroy things i dont even understand...

shukrallah
07-22-2005, 07:36 PM
The coders should have removed it. Doesn't really matter what anyone says. I mean, why waste CD space, when you can remove that section of the code, and speed the program up a bit?

We know that parents buy stuff for their kids all time reguardless of the rating system. Most parents don't know what a mod is, and won't buy the game because of this now. I mean, it is included with the game (or was, RockStar should just completley remove it and not risk this happening again)

Modders should be more concious of legal problems when starting a mod. Rockstar won't let this go, and the modders will be punished. Mods have been shut down before because of copywrite infringement, which didn't hurt the sales of the game itself. Imagine what will happen to these modders because this mod is affecting game sales (gamestop and walmart have quit selling it. I am guessing walmart... because its walmart...)

And about killing being worse than sex... think of how many games involve killing versus sex games? They can't possibly do anything about killing in games - unless they destroy the whole market. Games from Jedi Knight to Super Mario have killing (even if it is just jumping on a koopa's head and flattening it) Sex games on the other hand, while they were around in the 80s, are far less popular. Its easier to crack down on these things.

Lets not forget than people under 18 are not *supposed* to view pornographic images ;) I hate it when they put nudity in games for no reason. In fact, I am surprised ESRB didn't jump on Max Payne 2 for having Mona Sax nude. Nudity wasn't marked on the Content Rating. :-\ It just ruins the game, the whole thing was unnessesary... it didn't benifit the story at all. The same with God of War...


EDIT: And MGS The Twin Snakes.. I love the game, but can't stand how they made meryle stripe the guard naked, even though it was censored. Totally unnessesary. You mean to tell me Meryle stole his underwear? Or was the guarde walking around guarding prison cells with no underwear on? He was kind of a freak... and really stupid (more or less Comic Relief), but thats beside the point. In the PC Demo he was wearing boxer shorts... I guess they wanted to show off their Pixel Effect in the remake. :(

El Sitherino
07-22-2005, 10:10 PM
The Sims can make you a pedophile. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html)


Proof.
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/news/07/22/sims2_screen002.jpg

Compelling arguement, damning evidence. :rolleyes:

TiE23
07-22-2005, 10:14 PM
Wasn't that guy named Johnny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Sasaki)? The one with the diarehha? Cause I was playing MGS2: Substance on the Xbox when I D-Mic'd Emma when she was in the second tower, it was so funny, I should get a recording of it :D

EDIT: WTF? This is sad, something that has been around for awhile, no one ever cared about it, now its evil itself the second some joy-killing politic bastard wants to make money by ruining people.

TiE

Anthony
07-22-2005, 10:30 PM
Such a ridiculous idea, AO

No sexxorz, but I'm -still- shooting people and watching them exploding in showers of chunks and gore and whatnot.

Make sense? Barely.

shukrallah
07-22-2005, 11:12 PM
Yeah his name was Johnny. Hes pretty much a joke, yet still sort of essential to the plot (just not the nudity.)

Mike Windu
07-23-2005, 12:47 AM
I blew off someone's head with 2 sawed off shotguns and drove off on a motorcycle I stole (killed the driver with a silenced .99 mm)


But damn do I despise polygonal sex!

TiE23
07-23-2005, 01:36 AM
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell

Heh, he about wraps it up :p

TiE

RpTheHotrod
07-23-2005, 03:05 AM
It's not just a game thing. Kids play these games and grow up with seeing constant cursing, nudity, sex, etc...


That is why the government tries to control that. You really want our next generations to be nothing but sex addicts and drug addicts?

What kids see growing up does affect them. Some kids are mature enough to not let it affect them much, but many kids are not that mature.

Take a look around, the virginity loss age these days are down to 14 years old. Heck, I know someone who lost his virginity at 12. He's 14 now and has had sex at least 50 times.

These are the people that will be running our country one day.

Teen suicides are rampant...violence is everywhere.

Is it all because of games? No, of coarse not...but growing up in an enviroment of constant sex, drugs, drinking, and violence naturally will affect people in a negative way.

The rating is to generalize all of this....but I say it really depends on the individual. The government doesn't have time to "check out" every kid, thankfully....so they throw in rules and ratings.

In reality though, the big question is "should kids be allowed to watch TV / play violent games?" It depends on the kid...and it's up to the parents to decide whether or not their kid can handle that. Some parents just don't care, though.

I've played a lot of violent games and stuff, but I'm mature enough to realize it IS a game and it ISN'T real life. It really hasn't affected me. However, it's not always that way with people.

Look at the movies and the games these days. Kids are going to grow up expecting having sex at a very young age is just natural and something everyone does. That image has become so strong, that just ask around now....hardly anyone is a virgin these days....hardly anyone hasn't drank....etc...

Parents got too busy in life, that movies and games started teaching children how "life is". Then they get out in life, and see everyone else in life doing the same thing because they were "raised" by the same concept.


Anyway, that's what the rating stuff is all about. They know that people living off this stuff can be affected by it...so they try to limit it (but it doesn't do much good). Very few parents bother caring about the whole system...and kids will get those games one way or another. The only people who can possibly limit it are the parents. It's just like porn, really....the virtual porn :p Do you really think that constant sex, drugs, drinking, and violence is a "good" things to constantly bombard kids with?

TiE23
07-23-2005, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Take a look around, the virginity loss age these days are down to 14 years old. Heck, I know someone who lost his virginity at 12. He's 14 now and has had sex at least 50 times. Yah, thats pretty freakin crazy, it pisses me off. Can kids be so stupid?

Edit: All of the current news has gotten me excited *Bids 5.50 for Xbox San Andreas that has 15 hours left and gets immediatly out-bid* Damn! >_>

And this guy is trying to sell them for $72!
Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8207139676&category=62053&rd=1)

TiE

RpTheHotrod
07-23-2005, 03:08 AM
They think it's normal. His old girlfriend asked him if he had sex with the new girlfriend. His response? "Well....duh! She's my girlfriend. You're supposed to have sex with your girlfriend."

Mike Windu
07-23-2005, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by TiE 23
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell

Heh, he about wraps it up :p

TiE

bahaha

That was great :p

TiE23
07-23-2005, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
They think it's normal. His old girlfriend asked him if he had sex with the new girlfriend. His response? "Well....duh! She's my girlfriend. You're supposed to have sex with your girlfriend." Heheheh..... thats really weird. Whats with people now-a-days? *pokes can at everyone*

You bastards should all be fixed, ehhh....

OlD-TiE

TK-8252
07-23-2005, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
That is why the government tries to control that. You really want our next generations to be nothing but sex addicts and drug addicts?

No, and they won't be. It's no different than it was back in the "good ol' days."

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
What kids see growing up does affect them. Some kids are mature enough to not let it affect them much, but many kids are not that mature.

Exactly, which is why parents need to get their heads out of their asses and start raising kids properly. This means, not letting immature kids be exposed to certain types of media that isn't aimed at kids.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Take a look around, the virginity loss age these days are down to 14 years old. Heck, I know someone who lost his virginity at 12. He's 14 now and has had sex at least 50 times.

It's not really that bad. While it's true it's considered "cool" among teens to go out and "get laid," the number of teens who really do is not that high. If your friend is bragging about the chick he bagged last night, don't be so quick to believe it.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
These are the people that will be running our country one day.

No, they'll be the ones in jail, homeless on the street, or living in some crappy apartment. The ones who'll be running the country are the geeks and rich kids.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Teen suicides are rampant...violence is everywhere.

Do you honestly think it's any worse than it's been? There's always been troubled teens. There's always been violent crime. We just didn't hear about it as much.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Is it all because of games? No, of coarse not...but growing up in an enviroment of constant sex, drugs, drinking, and violence naturally will affect people in a negative way.

"Environment"? You mean, a video game... your environment? Well, I guess if you sit and play GTA every day all day long then I guess you could call it your environment...

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
In reality though, the big question is "should kids be allowed to watch TV / play violent games?" It depends on the kid...and it's up to the parents to decide whether or not their kid can handle that. Some parents just don't care, though.

Because some parents get their kid any M-rated game without any thought doesn't mean that the kid who is mature enough to handle it should suffer. Parents who are crap should blame themselves, not what they bought for their kid.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Parents got too busy in life, that movies and games started teaching children how "life is". Then they get out in life, and see everyone else in life doing the same thing because they were "raised" by the same concept.

Parents are too busy - too bad, they have a duty to society to raise their kid properly so they won't become a burden on others. If they fail to be good parents, then they've failed their duty to society. And now their kid is too because their parents spent too much time at the office, or too much time out at the clubs, or whatever they might do in their "busy" schedule.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Anyway, that's what the rating stuff is all about. They know that people living off this stuff can be affected by it...so they try to limit it (but it doesn't do much good). Very few parents bother caring about the whole system...and kids will get those games one way or another.

Yeah, so what does slapping an AO rating on GTA and pulling it from store shelves do? Kids will just pirate it, have big brother get it, steal it from a friend, etc.

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
The only people who can possibly limit it are the parents.

EXACTLY! So when mom comes into little Jimmy's room and he's blowing off a cop's head or banging a prostitute, she should do something about it.

Pie™
07-23-2005, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by TK-8252
...when mom comes into little Jimmy's room and he's banging a prostitute, she should do something about it. ...

Crazy mental images. o.o

And by the way, I agree with TK. :p

El Sitherino
07-23-2005, 10:41 AM
Uh... more teens are actually abstaining these days than in previous years.

RpTheHotrod
07-23-2005, 11:13 AM
So you're saying it's getting better and better...that less people have sex, drink, and do drugs these days...and in a few years, it may become something in the past?

o_O


It's only getting worst.

El Sitherino
07-23-2005, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
It's only getting worst. That's false actually. Less people are doing it.

Just like since Columbine school shootings have been down, it's just they're reported on a lot more than they used to. Thus making it appear as though it's a problem these days, when it's actually decreasing.

TiE23
07-23-2005, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
That's false actually. Less people are doing it.

Just like since Columbine school shootings have been down, it's just they're reported on a lot more than they used to. Thus making it appear as though it's a problem these days, when it's actually decreasing.
I hate to admit it, but I think you're right when I scanned over this: Recent Shootings World Wide (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html)

97': 5 shootings
98': 5 shootings
99': 6 shootings
00': 5 shootings
01': 7 shootings
02': 4 shootings
03': 3 shootings
04': 1 shooting
05': 1 shooting so far

But then people at CNN are blowing way out of proportions, asking whether schools are safe! I have never gone to school in fear that I am going to get shot. Never!

Millions of kids all over the world go to school every day, but no one is waiting for the depressed physco kid to open fire on them during lunch cause he was teased last month in gym class. American is funked up and stuff.

TiE

RpTheHotrod
07-23-2005, 03:04 PM
Teenage murder is one thing. I'm talking about drinking and sex.


I know a LOT of people...seeing I live in Dallas...and I don't know one that doesn't drink. I only know one that is a virgin.


This is 14-21 I speak of, btw.

El Sitherino
07-23-2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Teenage murder is one thing. I'm talking about drinking and sex.


I know a LOT of people...seeing I live in Dallas...and I don't know one that doesn't drink. I only know one that is a virgin.


This is 14-21 I speak of, btw.

Well you do live in Dallas. :p

Anyway, all joking aside. Underage drinking is leveling out, actually. Drug use is decreasing, especially among youngsters. Most people are abstaining these days. There may be a drop in age of when people are losing their virginity but in general, most kids aren't just going out and ****ing mindlessly. Most are waiting until marriage.

There was a study recently, but I can't for the life of me remember it. I just remember we did a whole thing on this in sociology.

But then again, I could care less if kids are having sex, as long as they are responsible and use protection, I'm cool. More power to them if they are. I know most of you don't feel that way, but it's part of life, you either accept that things happen or you don't.

Darth Groovy
07-23-2005, 07:44 PM
The GameStop discussion of the day is where were the parents during all of this?

These are the same parents I show what rated "M" means and why, and they just go "oh that's ok", and toss the cash at me across the counter.

Even though I never gave a crap about this game, and don't miss seeing it, they are not going to stop at GTA: San Andreas. My advice is hang on to the rest of your games while you still have the freedom to play them. We are entering a new realm of the dark ages.

Further proof of why humanity has failed.

TiE23
07-23-2005, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
The GameStop discussion of the day is where were the parents during all of this?

These are the same parents I show what rated "M" means and why, and they just go "oh that's ok", and toss the cash at me across the counter.

Even though I never gave a crap about this game, and don't miss seeing it, they are not going to stop at GTA: San Andreas. My advice is hang on to the rest of your games while you still have the freedom to play them. We are entering a new realm of the dark ages.

Further proof of why humanity has failed.
Thats why I jost got San Andreas used for $34 ($6 S/H) off Ebay, and all things considered that was a good deal compared to what they are demanding now.

TiE

Hermie
07-24-2005, 06:51 AM
Dibs on beating this f**ker to death with his own briefcase. After raping him.

Smilodon
07-24-2005, 07:18 AM
Hmph :mad:

Most of these so called antigaming activists never actually played these games, that's just ridiculous.

Jo
07-24-2005, 10:21 AM
what an idiot. Someone should shoot him..








Really..

El Sitherino
07-24-2005, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Tokarev
Sims 2 content "worse than Hot Coffee" (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html?tag=lastword_all_headline)



Stupid, stupid SOB... I think we should pay for a lobbyist to represent the gaming industry before it comes crashing down further.... :eek: Already posted that on the first page. :p


Anyway, I say we restrict sales of Windows, OSX, and ban linux. Because you can put pornographic images as your background that you gather from the "internet".

Acrylic
07-24-2005, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
Anyway, I say we restrict sales of Windows, OSX, and ban linux. Because you can put pornographic images as your background that you gather from the "internet".

O rly?

</gamefaqs> :p

manoman81
07-24-2005, 12:32 PM
I agree with Groovy. It was a big thing when the ratings started for the video games. If a parent asks what "M" means, still buys the game for their 8 year old, and then gets upset when the game is violent beyond their nightmares, then they have no right to complain.

El Sitherino
07-24-2005, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Acrylic
O rly?

</gamefaqs> :p orly = property of 4chan. :xp: gamefaqs are thieves.

TiE23
07-24-2005, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by manoman81
I agree with Groovy. It was a big thing when the ratings started for the video games. If a parent asks what "M" means, still buys the game for their 8 year old, and then gets upset when the game is violent beyond their nightmares, then they have no right to complain.
Yes, like what Neverhoodian said:
Originally posted by Neverhoodian
Parents have a big role to play as well. One time when I was buying a used game at GameStop, a mother came in looking for an Xbox game for her kids. Without really thinking about it, I recommended Brothers in Arms: Road to Hill 30. When an employee at the counter asked her how old her children were, she told him that they were five to seven years old. Upon hearing that, both I and the employee tried fervently to persuade her to buy a more family-friendly game, telling her that Brothers in Arms contains intense violence and strong language (one of the few games where the "f-word" is used liberally without censoring). She decided to go with Brothers in Arms anyway, despite our best efforts to politely dissuade her. Indeed, it seemed that our arguments that it might be too mature for children actually helped her decide on buying it. I've been more cautious in my game recommendations after that particular incident.
Parents can be stupid.

I also had a less dramatic expreiance similar to Neverhoodian's:
Originally posted by TiE 23
I also have a related story to tell: I was at Gamestop a few days ago looking at games, when two boys, ages (appox.) 7 and 9. The younger one was kinda hyperactive and loud. So they came in, looking at the PS2 games and stuff, each holding a DS. They start saying really loud in a high pitched voice: "I want Grand Theft Auto! Where is Vice City!?"

They looked around and found San Andreas, and the little kid goes "I dont like that one, I want Vice City!" Everyone in smiling at eachother and giggling quietly, rolling our eyes at these funny kids.

Then they walk up to the guy at the desk and put there DS' by themselves and say "We want to trade these and get Grand Theft Auto!" The clerk tells them they need the power cables and their parents cause they are really young and stupid. So they get all sad and act like its all cool. "Oh, okay, I'll get them later!" And they start asking for Vice City.

The guy humors them and helps them find an Xbox copy of the game. They go back up to the desk and askes for the price, he (lies) tells them its $50. So they all get unhappy and stuff. And well, I wish it ended better, but they just leave looking for their parent with DS' in hand. :p

"Yah, whats M mean?"

And those kids must be sucking at that Brothers in Arms game, I mean really sucking.

TiE

toms
07-25-2005, 09:34 AM
And so it begins...

..if thompson manages to force EA into ANY KIND of backdown with The SIms then that will be a major blow for anyone making mods, skins or patches. Publishers just won't want to take the risk of the bad publicity/lawsuits resulting from any potential thrid party changes... so they will code it and word the EULA to make it illegal to mod it. Grrr...

Originally posted by Darth Groovy
I had to pull all these off the shelf yesterday. GameStop can no longer buy sell or trade this game.

My advice is if you have this game, hang on to it. It may become a collector's item.

I am actually kind of relieved that we no longer sell this title. I just don't feel it was good for little kids, and you'd be surprised how many parents could care less about the ESBR ratings. :(

1 - Tell gamestop its stupid to take down games just because they are rated AO. Most gamers ARE adults. Appeal to their brain and tell them to stock them, just not sell them to kids. Appeal to their wallet and tell them they are excluding 45% of the market.

2 - I was in Woolworths (uk chain) buying a dvd yesterday and the kid next to me (about 12) tried to buy Vice City (rated 18 in the UK). The cashier said he couldn't sell it to him :) then the dad came over and said "sorry kevin, i didn't realise it was 18" and then bought it for him. :( sigh :(

Lightsaberboy
07-25-2005, 10:15 AM
I was in Woolworths (uk chain) buying a dvd yesterday and the kid next to me (about 12) tried to buy Vice City (rated 18 in the UK). The cashier said he couldn't sell it to him then the dad came over and said "sorry kevin, i didn't realise it was 18" and then bought it for him. sigh

ahh! i thought you were gonna say that the dad decided not to buy it for him when he saw it was 18. damn, what a twist ending.

>_>

El Sitherino
07-25-2005, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by toms
1 - Tell gamestop its stupid to take down games just because they are rated AO. Most gamers ARE adults. Appeal to their brain and tell them to stock them, just not sell them to kids. Appeal to their wallet and tell them they are excluding 45% of the market.

I think that'd be the worst decision gamestop could ever make. I doubt they want to be sued by every parent and harrassed by politicians just to do what is right.

shukrallah
07-25-2005, 03:17 PM
1 - Tell gamestop its stupid to take down games just because they are rated AO. Most gamers ARE adults. Appeal to their brain and tell them to stock them, just not sell them to kids. Appeal to their wallet and tell them they are excluding 45% of the market.



Most gamers are teenagers... crap, from the look of this thread I would say most gamers are 10 year old kids playing GTA.

45% of games are AO? Are you sure about that?

Jed
07-25-2005, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
45% of games are AO? Are you sure about that?

I think he means 45% of gamers are adults.

And I, for one, am going to pick up a copy of Sims 2 before they take it off the shelves. I suggest you all do the same. :p

toms
07-25-2005, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
45% of games are AO? Are you sure about that?

I meant that most gamers are adults (see below). NO GAMES are AO... because there is no point getting an AO rating if the big shops wont sell them. So it becomes a meaninless clasification. At least in the UK there is no problem with shops stocking 18 games.


These figures are from 2 years ago, but as gamers grow up the average age has been going up and up, so i'd assume that there are even more old gamers now.

--Age--------PC------Console---
Under 18 -- 29.7% -- 37.9%
18-35 ----- 28.7% -- 39.5%
35+ -------- 41.6% -- 22.7%

So that means 70% of PC gamers are over 18, and 60% of console gamers are over 18.

Average age of a console gamer was 29, it may have gone up by now, and definately will with the next generation.

So that means that by treating games as "kids only" and refusing to stock AO games Gamestop and Wallmart are missing out on a possible 60-70% of th market... as well as perpetuating the myth (that people like jack thompson exploit) that games are only for kids, and so shouldn't contain any advanced themes or adult content.

Note: Its true that the 40+ bracket (on the pc especially) tends to play mainly games like poker, blackjack etc.. rather than "real" (:D ) games, but even on consoles most gamers are over 18.

http://www.clickz.com/stats/sectors/demographics/article.php/5901_3070391

BongoBob
07-25-2005, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by BongoBob
Watch them change sims rating to M now. Just watch.

Wow, did I call it or what :(

I want to kick that ****er in the head, you have to download a mod and the skins for it, not just type in GIVE ME NUDE KID SIMS CUZ I'M A CREEPY PEDOPHILE AND EA IS SUPPORTING ME!!1 in some cheat menu.

*beats in head with left shoe*

Neverhoodian
07-25-2005, 09:56 PM
Well, this is disturbing news. I hope this doesn't turn into a "slippery slope" for censoring gaming. Today, GTA. Tomorrow...the Sims?! I mean c'mon, it wasn't even included in the game, hidden or otherwise. EA (or any other PC game developer) has no control over what others do to modify their games. Besides, nobody's forcing people who own the Sims 2 to download the skins and make them watch their Sims having uncensored sex. I hope this doesn't mean the death of legal game modding as we know it.

That said, I think Jack Thompson may have bitten off more than he can chew. The Sims series is wildly popular even among those who aren't gamers. It might cause a heck of a backlash, one strong enough to cause these types of things to die down.

BongoBob
07-26-2005, 02:29 AM
One can only hope right :(

Smilodon
07-26-2005, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Neverhoodian
That said, I think Jack Thompson may have bitten off more than he can chew. The Sims series is wildly popular even among those who aren't gamers. It might cause a heck of a backlash, one strong enough to cause these types of things to die down.

That's propably true. I hope everyone forgets this person after he runs out of his "persuasive" arguments... until he thinks he must shock the public again with some nonesense again ~~

BongoBob
07-26-2005, 04:53 AM
I can see it now...

"All humans should have all reproductive organs and related body parts should be removed because they are sexual in nature and perverts like it too much and the human race will go on through cloning."

Smilodon
07-26-2005, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by BongoBob
the human race will go on through cloning."

Ha, I wanna see how these conservative activists are going to deal with this :D

toms
07-26-2005, 08:00 AM
If "the kids" are able to find, download and install nude sims skins then they are certainly able to download REAL nudes.

News update:
Senate (muppets) votes for federal investigation into whether Rockstar "intentionallt decieved" the ESRB.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/25/news_6129723.html

Now THAT is a good use of taxpayers money, not!
Even if Rockstar DID do it intentionally (they probably didn't, but it will be almost impossible to prove) the ESRB isn't a government body, so its not like it would be a criminal offence. So what do they hope to achieve...?

BongoBob
07-26-2005, 08:16 AM
To cause annoyance and grief for all of us gamers?

That sounds about right to me >.> <.<

Mike Windu
07-26-2005, 08:06 PM
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=158

go go VGCATS! :D

BongoBob
07-26-2005, 10:02 PM
"And here come the douche-bags!"
"Let's not let the facts get in the way of bolstering my career."
"Isn't it true you were born with a giant stick up your bum?"

:D Classic

El Sitherino
07-27-2005, 12:32 AM
Wow, way to steal a Daily Show joke.

Darth Groovy
07-27-2005, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
Wow, way to steal a Daily Show joke.

Daily Show jokes are meant to be re-used in every day events. :D

El Sitherino
07-27-2005, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
Daily Show jokes are meant to be re-used in every day events. :D

Except they crapped it up, not to mention it's VGcats.

TiE23
07-27-2005, 02:17 PM
Oh God! Call 911, VGCats "stole" a joke! Ahhh!!!! The world is ending!!!!
:3pdance:

Oh well... :dozey:

TiE

Troopr-Undr-Fir
07-28-2005, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by TiE 23
Oh God! Call 911, VGCats "stole" a joke! Ahhh!!!! The world is ending!!!!
:3pdance:

Oh well... :dozey:

TiE

Yay, now everyone is dead, and I am the supreme ruler!!!






:(





All of this makes me sick, I can't understand why it's so upsetting to people...

The choice...a choice... just... :(

El Sitherino
07-28-2005, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by TiE 23
Oh God! Call 911, VGCats "stole" a joke! Ahhh!!!! The world is ending!!!!
:3pdance:

Oh well... :dozey:

TiE It's not just that they stole it, but they crapped it up. The greatest crime of all, making a joke unfunny.

Troopr-Undr-Fir
07-28-2005, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
It's not just that they stole it, but they crapped it up. The greatest crime of all, making a joke unfunny.


But I like VGCats and the Daily Show


:(

Mex
07-28-2005, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
It's not just that they stole it, but they crapped it up. The greatest crime of all, making a joke unfunny.

But that was funny. :indif:

Tyrion
07-28-2005, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
It's not just that they stole it, but they crapped it up. The greatest crime of all, making a joke unfunny.

Don't worry about him, guys. I think Sithy just broke his last bong and he's pretty mad at himself for it. Give him some time...

:D

toms
07-29-2005, 10:08 AM
VGcats is ALWAYS FUNNY. Its the LAW!.

Well, i laughed anyway... and most of us outside the US don't get the Daily show anyway.

Did you here that some 84 year old granny is suing Rockstar for the distress she recieved when she realised that the M-rated game she had bought for her 14 year old nephew might have unlockable polygon-sex in it?

Tyrion
07-29-2005, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by toms

Did you here that some 84 year old granny is suing Rockstar for the distress she recieved when she realised that the M-rated game she had bought for her 14 year old nephew might have unlockable polygon-sex in it?

It's disturbing. You can have all the blood, gore, and dismemberments you want but Heaven forbid you get to see a nipple. Maybe even two groups of polygons going at it. Wow, that's gonna disturb that poor fourteen year old child. Yeah, in four years he's gonna have sex with a girl! And do you know why? Because GTA told him to do so!

Evil!

Mike Windu
07-29-2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by toms
VGcats is ALWAYS FUNNY. Its the LAW!.


Did you here that some...

No, I didn't here.

>_>

<_<

ET Warrior
07-29-2005, 01:57 PM
Mike, you need lessons in making jokes about peoples typos.

When somebody misspells hear as here, typically the way to respond is to say..


"No, but I did there."

Or something to that effect. Simply regurgitating their typo isn't funny.



ALSO, I don't know what the majority of you people are smoking, but VGCats is abysmal at best.

Mike Windu
07-29-2005, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior

"No, but I did there."



Sounds like you need a lesson. That was terrible. If you're going to say I need a lesson, at least make your example funnier than my joke.



your face, btw

>_>

<_<

TiE23
07-30-2005, 08:55 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Tie23/heildicti2mall.jpg
>_>

TiE

swphreak
07-30-2005, 09:00 PM
It's disturbing. You can have all the blood, gore, and dismemberments you want but Heaven forbid you get to see a nipple. Maybe even two groups of polygons going at it. Wow, that's gonna disturb that poor fourteen year old child. Yeah, in four years he's gonna have sex with a girl! And do you know why? Because GTA told him to do so!

Evil!

Oh noes! The little box on the front of the game that has MA meant nothing!

It's things like this that really piss me off. If I was a Judge at one of the trials, I'd so have the parents arrested for purchasing a MA rated game for their 13 year old kids.

El Sitherino
07-30-2005, 09:01 PM
I don't know what the majority of you people are smoking, but VGCats is abysmal at best.
Finally, someone that knows fact from fiction.

Katarn07
07-31-2005, 03:14 AM
This whole thing is bullplop. Even worse than this (I think Rockstar had it coming to them for being dumb enough to leave that code in there, whether intentionally or not) is them going after the Sims 2 for all the 'nudity' in it with the anti blur cheat. Because you know, it's bad enough for kids to see a naked body. It's worse to see a pixelated, featureless naked body. They're like Barbie and Ken! Jeez :rolleyes: To get true nudity into most games, you need to download third party mods. And since those exist for all popular games, I say we slap an AO rating on every video game that may sell well enough to motivate people to mod it.

TiE23
07-31-2005, 03:33 AM
Yeah, in four years he's gonna have sex with a girl! And do you know why? Because GTA told him to do so!

Evil!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Tie23/GTA_Shirt.jpg
Linky (http://www.zestuff.com/product.php?productid=59&cat=4&page=1)

I really do want that shirt >_>
*Starts counting pennies*

TiE

TK-8252
07-31-2005, 03:34 AM
Did you here that some 84 year old granny is suing Rockstar for the distress she recieved when she realised that the M-rated game she had bought for her 14 year old nephew might have unlockable polygon-sex in it?

The old hag must have been too blind to see that M ratings mean 17+. Gee, did she forget that her son is only fourteen?

There were also some police officers who sued Rockstar when some little punk killed a cop and blamed GTA for it. But of course, the government is busy passing bills protecting gun manufacturers from getting sued over gun crimes.

Guns don't kill people; video games kill people. It all makes sense now.

Katarn07
07-31-2005, 03:42 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Tie23/GTA_Shirt.jpg
Linky (http://www.zestuff.com/product.php?productid=59&cat=4&page=1)

I really do want that shirt >_>
*Starts counting pennies*

TiE

That's awesome. Good find ;)

Sabretooth
07-31-2005, 05:33 AM
I can see it now...

"All humans should have all reproductive organs and related body parts should be removed because they are sexual in nature and perverts like it too much and the human race will go on through cloning."

LMAOROFLLOL, we better send that to ESRB!

Pie™
07-31-2005, 09:18 AM
They're like Barbie and Ken!
I wonder when they'll start banning Barbie...

TiE23
07-31-2005, 05:44 PM
I wonder when they'll start banning Barbie...
Of course! Its the morally correct thing to do! We can't let these perverted corporations like Mattel go on giving little girls Ken and Barbie dolls that can be undressed and show their "extremities" to their innocent eyes. We should also sue the companies and stores that sell these perverted-pornographic-mindnumbing-dolls that have been around since the 50s. And we should also jail any parent who has purchased a Barbie Doll for their child! 20 years in jail with no parents is a price needed to pay for these sins crimes that their "mommy and daddy" have commited against them. [/jack thompson]

Oh, in related news: http://www.gamersalliance.org/content/view/131/2/
Jack Thompson wants Minnesota stores criminally charged for selling M rated games to minors.

****, once or twice I've tried to buy a M rated game at a store, but I am always stopped. Thats why I either get them off the internet, or like I did with RainbowSix 3, Halo, Halo 2, and Splinter Cell 3, I have my mom buy it for me. And I even get T-Rated games, and my 12 yearold sister plays them (0MG!!)

And actually, my sister is playing San Andreas right now. She isn't showing signs that she wants to kill people, but she is learning more colorful language :xp:

TiE

Katarn07
07-31-2005, 06:11 PM
Erm.... The ESRB thing isn't enforced by the government. It's a voluntary system. How can they be criminally charged? What a doofus. Let's make the ratings a law and then he can start bitching. :rolleyes:

shukrallah
08-01-2005, 12:16 AM
(I think Rockstar had it coming to them for being dumb enough to leave that code in there, whether intentionally or not)

Well, they didn't accidentally leave it in. They just didn't bother to delete it. Maybe other bits of code depended on it.. or something.

Either way, if Rockstar was going for an M rating game why would they add a sex minigame? If they were thinking it straight it would tell them that Sex/nudity will equal an AO rating.

TiE23
08-01-2005, 12:50 AM
Well, they didn't accidentally leave it in. They just didn't bother to delete it. Maybe other bits of code depended on it.. or something.

Either way, if Rockstar was going for an M rating game why would they add a sex minigame? If they were thinking it straight it would tell them that Sex/nudity will equal an AO rating.
Well, in JO (and JA?) has cheat codes so you can chop people into little pieces, but we all assume they took it out to keep a T rating. Can someone confirm (or deny) this?

TiE

toms
08-01-2005, 10:02 AM
Australia bans GTA: San Andreas
Monday August 1, 10:30 AM

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas is no longer available to buy or rent in Australia after the country's Office of Film and Literature Classification got wind of the increasingly notorious hidden sex-mini-game known as "Hot Coffee".

The game had previously been rated MA15+, which allowed retailers to sell it to people over that age, but Hot Coffee has apparently seen to that. The Aussie office has now revoked the certificate, effectively banning the game from sale, as the OFLC doesn't do a UK-style "18" rating.

"Businesses that sell or hire computer games should remove existing stocks of this game from their shelves immediately," said Des Clark, director of the OFLC. "Parents are strongly advised to exercise caution in allowing children continued access to the game, particularly if they might have access to the 'Hot Coffee' modification."

Clark went on to not bother advising parents that most children have seen graphic sex scenes on television by the age of 15 and probably know far more about human reproduction than anybody else on the planet at this point.

GTA has fallen foul of the OFLC before, of course (unsurprisingly). Grand Theft Auto III, which we thought was rather tame by comparison, was banned outright following its release, and Vice City had to be heavily edited before it was released in the territory. Reminds us of the days of green blood in the SNES version of Mortal Kombat.

In an effort to keep abreast of breaking news surrounding the Hot Coffee "scandal", we've resurrected an old email address to deal with content submissions. Anybody with a Hot Tip as to who or what's going on in the world of Hot Coffee should direct their information to recyclebin@eurogamer.net.

Though this particular bit of idiocy seems to stem more from the fact that Oz doesn't have an Adult/18 rating than anything else...

shukrallah
08-01-2005, 11:41 AM
TiE: Yeah, it was probably removed to keep a T rating. Have you ever seen LucasArts publish a M rated game? Im not saying dismemberment would give it a M, but... yeah, you never know. Sometimes you see games rated M that have nothing wrong with them at all, and other times you see T rated games that are worthy of M (in my opinion)

Oh and... you got to remember the JK series wouldn't get as much attention as GTA. I mean, its not as popular, plus the lack of blood, swearing, grand theft auto... you know... its totally different.

Katarn07
08-01-2005, 01:34 PM
God of War has a sex mini game that wasn't hidden. It was right in the game. It's only rated M. It's not as graphic as GTA's, but if you've seen screenies, it's not even graphic. They're fully clothed and all.

As for the M rating in JO/ JA, I'd give it one if the dismemberment was in it. I always felt it was supposed to be there, they just decided to make it a cheat to obtain the T rating.

TiE23
08-01-2005, 02:25 PM
Well, that God of War thing didn't show nudity.

Sex Mini-game
In the Beginning of Act 2, there are 2 women in your bed when you are inside your ship. If you jump on the bed, A circle will appear above the bed, indicating a Mini-game. Press Circle, and the game will start. All you see is the vase, but as you get further, the vase will shake more and more, until it falls and breaks. you have to press the buttons as it commands it. closer to the end, you have to rotate the Left Analog Stick. If you win, the first time, you get a large amount of Red orbs. Everytime afterwards, you get 5 more.
*Bonk* >_>

Well, anyway. I am now a happy owner of the AO rated version of SA, and my 12 yearold sister is playing it more than me. Oh well :xp:

TiE

Katarn07
08-01-2005, 03:51 PM
There's no nudity in the original sex mini game of SA, but you do see your character doing the girl. Maybe the Hot Coffee mod added it for the PC, but the PS2 and XBOX versions have them fully clothed. I won't put a link for obvious reasons, but dig around IGN. You can find screens of the sex mini game there in articles about it ;)

shukrallah
08-01-2005, 09:33 PM
About JK2/JKA: Exactly. And they made dismemberment even harder to do in JKA now, probably because of this.

acdcfanbill
08-03-2005, 04:59 PM
so when R* puts out the new version of the game w/o the sex mini-game code, it will be back rated as M correct?

BongoBob
08-03-2005, 06:23 PM
About JK2/JKA: Exactly. And they made dismemberment even harder to do in JKA now, probably because of this.

I never knew that LA had psychics predicting stuff like this for them :o

:p

Hermie
08-03-2005, 06:26 PM
*Links a webcomic because Sithy doesn't like it when people do that* (http://www.little-gamers.com/index.php?comicID=1155) <3

shukrallah
08-03-2005, 10:44 PM
I never knew that LA had psychics predicting stuff like this for them :o

:p


I think the dismemberment came from Q3, when you blow someone up there body explodes. It came in handy when cutting off a hand, but a head is a little more extreme. Notice blood is still coded into the game, they just replaced it with smoke and sparks. Its sort of covered up, the game calls it blood, when it appears to be smoke/sparks flying off the body. :twogun:

El Sitherino
08-04-2005, 12:19 AM
*Links a webcomic because Sithy doesn't like it when people do that* (http://www.little-gamers.com/index.php?comicID=1155) <3
Wrong, I hate when people link to crappy webcomics.

toms
08-04-2005, 11:42 AM
like vg cats....

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050509.jpg

:p

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=150

El Sitherino
08-04-2005, 12:59 PM
Evil bastard. <3

Katarn07
08-04-2005, 01:05 PM
I found it odd Manny Calvera was in there. Was the really THAT big of a game. Would non-LEC gamers of today who are younger even recognize him?