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View Full Version : What Jedi Class should Revan really be?


Char Ell
07-23-2005, 01:59 AM
First, I wish to state that the beauty of KotOR is that we can play the PC however we choose and that's only well and good, otherwise the game just wouldn't sell as well IMHO. As for myself, I have played all three classes just to see how the gameplay differed.

But...

Step back for a second and consider the story being presented in KotOR. What Jedi class do you think Revan was during the Mandalorian Wars? Assuming you've played KotOR, the game presents certain details about Revan's background. From the information given in the game, what Jedi class do you think Revan most likely is and why?

Now that I've posed the question, I'll put my 2 cents down on the table. I think Revan most likely a Jedi Sentinel. From what I picked up on, Revan either built or made major modifications to HK-47, requiring skills that neither a Consular nor Guardian would likely develop. Revan also rallied Jedi to battle the Mandalorian invasion, not a likely response from a Consular but more likely from a Guardian or Sentinel. Finally, I feel Revan's decision to pursue knowledge of the Star Forge indicates a desire to seek out and discover, displaying behavior more closely aligned with the Sentinel class than Consular or Guardian classes. Generally speaking, I don't think a Consular would have had such a strong desire to fight to begin with and a Guardian would have gone out, kicked butt, and then returned home when the job was done.

So there you have it folks. Cast your vote and make your case. I'm interested in what other forum members thoughts are...

Smilodon
07-23-2005, 11:27 AM
Revan could also be a Multiclass character. Regarding his behaviour and his skills in battle and as mechanic, I too would suggest that he is a Sentinel, but the discoverage of Malachor V and obtaining the Sith teachings there acquire great knowledge and a strong affinity to the force, so it would also be possible that he is a Consular. Or a prestige class generally...

Bastila
07-23-2005, 12:32 PM
I picked Sentinel as they are balanced, sometimes i chose guardian

gonzzalez
07-23-2005, 02:04 PM
I voted sentinal as I do not see Revan as being deficient in fighting or force powers. Someone of his presence would have to be good at both.

MdKnightR
07-24-2005, 01:44 AM
I would also have to say Sentinel. Which is ironic because I have never played a Sentinel in KOTOR I. (It all goes back to how I detest yellow sabers). But, lets face it, Revan really had to have been a well rounded individual. However, in the case of Anakin Skywalker, I am sure that anyone would agree that he was a Jedi Guardian (even though the movies never had a yellow saber for a Sentinel class). Of course, it could be argued that Anakin was a Guardian before his fall to the Dark Side and after his conversion into Vader, his Prestige Class was Sith Lord (the other end of the spectrum). I tend to think that Revan would have been a Sith Lord as a Prestige class instead of a Marauder or Assassin. On the other hand, I think Malak was likely a Guardian/Weaponmaster, because, lets face it, he was extremely power hungry, wielded a very unique superlong lightsaber, and wasn't prone to bouts of genius.

RedHawke
07-24-2005, 01:56 AM
I see Revan as a Sentinel as well... Now Malak on the other hand was a Guardian all the way.

Venom750
07-24-2005, 10:37 AM
I always thought of Revan as a Sentinal because he/she is always being referred to as being able to build thing like HK-47

And Malak you could tell was a Gudian because of his lets just blow **** up (Taris) attitude and then in the finally battle he's jumping around like a bloody frog the force jumping fanny

warchild75
07-24-2005, 10:41 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Venom750
[B]I always thought of Revan as a Sentinal because he/she is always being referred to as being able to build thing like HK-47

And Malak you could tell was a Gudian because of his lets just blow **** up (Taris) attitude and then in the finally battle he's jumping around like a bloody frog the force jumping fanny.

I couldnt agree more i thought malak was supposed to be this dark lord yet when i fought him he kept giving it legsso i just drained the life force from all the jedis in those tanks and killed him ha ha. :D

THE VIGILANTE
07-26-2005, 02:40 PM
Well, I would think Revan was probably a Sentinel.

However, according to the chronicles on LucasArts.com, Jedi Master Revan disappeared after the Mandalorian Wars. With that being said, you can guess he was a Consular before the War and after the war, the council promoted him to a new rank.

Not to get off topic but:

In TSL, Kreia gives you useful clues about Revan's past, and from what I could gather, he was a Consular/Master.

Smilodon
07-26-2005, 03:09 PM
Well, in this case Jedi Master is more a title or rank for a Jedi who has mastered the force to a high degree than the class in TSL. Similar in the movies Darth Maul is called a Sith Lord while he actually is a Sith Marauder.

Rok_stoned
07-26-2005, 06:46 PM
I believe sentinel because he was honored as a great warrior there fore not a conselor and well known for his arcane and achievements with the force and many discovories of the star forge. and when malak wrested control from the balanced leader the sith's stance quickly changed from a precise series of stirkes to an aggresive onslaught against the republic.

THE VIGILANTE
07-26-2005, 11:12 PM
Hmmm...

Well I guess Smilodon has a point. I voted for Sentinel anyways because that's the class I always play as.

:D

Jeff
07-27-2005, 12:03 AM
Obviously I'm different than everybody else, but I thought of him as a Consular. Maybe most consulars dont have the charisma required to rally all those troops, but when I hear the title Sith Lord or Jedi Master like Revan was, I think of a great knowledge of the Force.

Maybe I just don't see him as a sentinel because I never played sentinel, but some of you are starting to sway my opinion to sentinel. But I already voted.

Rok_stoned
07-27-2005, 11:11 PM
I never played sentinel

blashemy! you should replay kotor 1 at once to correct this fatal error before you shall perish as they did before.

Jeff
07-27-2005, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by PsionicBeverage
blashemy! you should replay kotor 1 at once to correct this fatal error before you shall perish as they did before.
Who is "they"?

THE VIGILANTE
07-27-2005, 11:50 PM
^^^^

I think he was refering to the other people who voted for a different class than Sentinel.

Soogz
07-28-2005, 11:53 AM
setinal, because it is balanced.

Rok_stoned
07-28-2005, 03:20 PM
who is "they"?
then
I think he was refering to the other people who voted for a different class than Sentinel.

no i meant it to not refer to any1. you know like in the corny horror movies.

Char Ell
07-29-2005, 12:22 AM
@PsionicBeverage

I have no idea what you're saying. Do you intentionally muddle your posts or is this just your natural way of communicating? Seriously, I've read your posts elsewhere and most of the time I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Rok_stoned
07-30-2005, 07:33 PM
I have no idea what you're saying. Do you intentionally muddle your posts or is this just your natural way of communicating? Seriously, I've read your posts elsewhere and most of the time I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

its not my natural form i enjoy fooling around and confusing people.
but when im serious you should be able to understand and if not don't be shy to ask.

btw i'm working on fooling around less i recently became aware that many people on these forums don't speak english as their mother tongue

Mono_Giganto
07-30-2005, 07:44 PM
With that being said, you can guess he was a Consular before the War and after the war, the council promoted him to a new rank.


But, after the war he became a Sith Lord and turned on the Republic. Additionally, the council never supported him in his war decision. So, under what grounds would he get a promotion?

Char Ell
07-30-2005, 09:11 PM
OK, a week into this poll and the voting shows Jedi Sentinel as the overwhelming favorite with Jedi Consular a distant second...

Jedi Sentinel - 11 votes
Jedi Consular - 3 votes
Jedi Guardian - 1 vote

Thanks to all those who voted and contributed their arguments in support of their particular view. For those who haven't voted yet please go ahead and let your voice be heard. I just wanted to post the vote count so we have a reference point for what the votes were a week into this poll.

Char Ell
07-30-2005, 09:35 PM
its not my natural form i enjoy fooling around and confusing people.
but when im serious you should be able to understand and if not don't be shy to ask.

btw i'm working on fooling around less i recently became aware that many people on these forums don't speak english as their mother tongue

OK. That's good to know. Because it doesn't do much good if people don't understand you.

But back on topic... I didn't start this thread with the intention of delving into the Prestige class Revan most likely was. I intended for this poll to cover the Jedi classes from K1. That being stated...

but when I hear the title Sith Lord or Jedi Master like Revan was, I think of a great knowledge of the Force.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Jedi Master and Sith Lord were Prestige classes. If my understanding of how the Prestige classes work is correct, isn't it conceivable that Revan could have started out as a Jedi Sentinel and then chose the Prestige class of Sith Lord for DS or Jedi Master for LS? I haven't played TSL yet (don't want to get into the reasons why) but from what I gather a Force-trained individual chooses their Prestige class after starting out as a LS/DS neutral Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel. But just because one started out as a Jedi Guardian doesn't mean that individual would be required to choose Jedi Weapons Master/Sith Marauder, right?

Jeff
07-30-2005, 09:38 PM
^^^
I didn't mean as much prestige classes as I did thinking of Jedi Masters and Sith Lords in the movies (there are no prestige classes in the movies).

Rok_stoned
08-01-2005, 07:00 PM
I think they really screwed it up by saying sith lord and jedi master are prestige classes they shoud just be something like jedi seer or sith visor

lukeiamyourdad
08-02-2005, 12:34 AM
Obviously I'm different than everybody else, but I thought of him as a Consular. Maybe most consulars dont have the charisma required to rally all those troops, but when I hear the title Sith Lord or Jedi Master like Revan was, I think of a great knowledge of the Force.

Maybe I just don't see him as a sentinel because I never played sentinel, but some of you are starting to sway my opinion to sentinel. But I already voted.


I voted Consular too.

It just seems more natural to me, that someone's who's a great tactician and can inspire his comrades is a Consular.

I also don't understand how people can draw the conclusion that he's a Sentinel on the fact that he made modifications to HK-47. I can get a high repair skill with a Consular. Nothing stops a Consular from being able to repair and modify droids.
I also don't think he built HK-47. Remember G0-T0's talk with HK-47? That sounded like G0-T0 had something to do with HK's past, besides Revan.

Why does he need to be balanced? There's no indication anywhere of Revan's fighting style.

Also, we don't know exactly how he fought his battles. Where does it say that he did precise strikes? He only left military structures intact because he needed them for later. Had Malak known what Revan did, would he also keep those intact? We don't know.
Then there's Malachor, where Revan ordered a mass destruction of Mandolarian forces. Malachor doesn't sound like what a Sentinel would do.

lukeiamyourdad
08-02-2005, 12:40 AM
I forgot to mention.

In KotOR I, when Master Dorak questions you to see what kind of class would better fit you, all of the answers requiring cooperation with someone or involving learning from your enemy were Consular answers.

Revan cooperating with others and seeking knowledge points him towards being a Consular.

He also tried to turn others to the Dark Side, not something a Guardian or Sentinel would do.

Char Ell
08-02-2005, 02:04 AM
I respectfully disagree with lukeiamyourdad. Everyone has their own opinions on these things though. If you think Revan a consular then OK but I'm not convinced yet... :D

He also tried to turn others to the Dark Side, not something a Guardian or Sentinel would do.
I don't understand why a DS Guardian or DS Sentinel wouldn't also try to sway others to the dark side if they so desired. Why do you limit that solely to a DS Consular? Take Bastila in K1 for instance. Didn't she try to sway Revan into joining her against Malak during their confrontation on the Rakatan homeworld? And I do believe she was a Sentinel.

And while I'm sure a Consular could develop a high repair skill I don't think that Consulars, generally speaking, would concern themselves with learning how to repair and build droids. Consulars are more interested in studying and improving their use of the Force. Sentinels are the skills focused Jedi class.

Then there's Malachor, where Revan ordered a mass destruction of Mandolarian forces. Malachor doesn't sound like what a Sentinel would do.
I don't think Revan's action in this case gives any indication to Revan's being a Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel. I think any disciple of the Dark Side would have taken the opportunity to crush their opposition, regardless of their class.

I can see how some might see Revan as a consular due to Revan's strength in the Force, but as for me I haven't seen any arguments that sway my opinion from Revan being a Sentinel.

MdKnightR
08-02-2005, 09:46 AM
I respectfully disagree with lukeiamyourdad. Everyone has their own opinions on these things though. If you think Revan a consular then OK but I'm not convinced yet... :D


I don't understand why a DS Guardian or DS Sentinel wouldn't also try to sway others to the dark side if they so desired. Why do you limit that solely to a DS Consular? Take Bastila in K1 for instance. Didn't she try to sway Revan into joining her against Malak during their confrontation on the Rakatan homeworld? And I do believe she was a Sentinel.

And while I'm sure a Consular could develop a high repair skill I don't think that Consulars, generally speaking, would concern themselves with learning how to repair and build droids. Consulars are more interested in studying and improving their use of the Force. Sentinels are the skills focused Jedi class.


I don't think Revan's action in this case gives any indication to Revan's being a Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel. I think any disciple of the Dark Side would have taken the opportunity to crush their opposition, regardless of their class.

I can see how some might see Revan as a consular due to Revan's strength in the Force, but as for me I haven't seen any arguments that sway my opinion from Revan being a Sentinel.


From looking through this thread and the poll above, most people are in agreement with you. He was a Sentinel in most people's estimation. Of course, I still contend that if Prestige Classes were to be considered that he would have promoted to Sith Lord rather than Marauder or Assassin. So, in a way, he would have become the Sith Prestige equivalent of the Jedi Conselor.

lukeiamyourdad
08-02-2005, 10:52 AM
I don't understand why a DS Guardian or DS Sentinel wouldn't also try to sway others to the dark side if they so desired. Why do you limit that solely to a DS Consular? Take Bastila in K1 for instance. Didn't she try to sway Revan into joining her against Malak during their confrontation on the Rakatan homeworld? And I do believe she was a Sentinel.

It is true, she was a Sentinel and yes, all the classes can sway others to the dark side, but doing it on such a scale as Revan seems more the work of a Consular.

And while I'm sure a Consular could develop a high repair skill I don't think that Consulars, generally speaking, would concern themselves with learning how to repair and build droids. Consulars are more interested in studying and improving their use of the Force. Sentinels are the skills focused Jedi class.

True Sentinels are the skill focused class, but it doesn't mean that Revan, as a Consular, doesn't have any other interests then learning from the Force. Afterall, when you played as a Consular, you had those skills open for you. It could have been that Revan was passionate about droids but didn't have such skills in other areas.


I don't think Revan's action in this case gives any indication to Revan's being a Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel. I think any disciple of the Dark Side would have taken the opportunity to crush their opposition, regardless of their class.

I think it does. Sentinels are reputed for precise strikes, yet Malachor was an act of mass destruction, something both Sith Lords (Vader and Palpatine) in the movies did. Both are Sith Lords/Guardians/Consular.

I can see how some might see Revan as a consular due to Revan's strength in the Force, but as for me I haven't seen any arguments that sway my opinion from Revan being a Sentinel.

Consulars are more interested in studying and improving their use of the Force.

Kreia mentionned that Revan sought out many teachers to learn from them.
So if Consulars are more interested in studying and improving their use of the Force, Revan must have been one in order to seek out so many teachers and learn from them.

Falcon 117
08-02-2005, 12:25 PM
I voted that Revan was a Consular. You only see one cutscene in the game where he/she was weilding a lightsaber and in others he weilds the Force. Like when Bastila and the other Jedi boarded Revan's flagship. Revan didn't even use his/her lightsaber, he/she just used force choke, so that pretty much rules Guardian out.

Revan being a Sentinel is also possible, but couldn't any class with the proper repair skills modify HK-47? Also, with the proper knowledge of the Force, you could convert rival Jedi to Sith. That covers Revan rallying the Sith against the Jedi and the Republic.

MdKnightR
08-02-2005, 04:58 PM
I think it does. Sentinels are reputed for precise strikes, yet Malachor was an act of mass destruction, something both Sith Lords (Vader and Palpatine) in the movies did. Both are Sith Lords/Guardians/Consular.

Well, now this is where I was making my point. I think it obvious that Anakin Skywalker was a Guardian before his fall to the darkside. Sure, you could argue that he was a Sentinel (since there are no yellow sabers in the movies), but he certainly wasn't a Conselor before his fall to the darkside. AND it is therefore my vote that Revan was a Sentinel originally and, possibly, promoted to Sith Lord as a Prestige Class.

Revan didn't even use his/her lightsaber, he/she just used force choke, so that pretty much rules Guardian out.

Unless I am absolutely mistaken, didn't Revan pull out his saber just before the blast hit the bridge of his flagship? In any event, it is a weak argument because even Palpatine brandished his saber when he was at last cornered by the Jedi.

Char Ell
08-03-2005, 01:53 AM
This is great! There's nothing like some good ole' hard nosed debate. :)

I didn't start this thread with the intention of delving into the Prestige class Revan most likely was. I intended for this poll to cover the Jedi classes from K1.
Since I haven't played TSL yet :eyepop and I'm trying not to find out too much about TSL before I get the opportunity to play, I don't consider myself qualified to make any arguments based on TSL info. Plain and simple, I don't know. I only commented on the attack on Malachor because lukeiamyourdad used it as a supporting argument. I didn't even know about Revan attacking Malachor before lukeiamyourdad brought it up. And that goes for anything Kreia says too because again, I don't know what she said.

I think I'll detail my arguments for Revan being a Sentinel in a point-by-point:
- Revan was trained by Master Zhar, a Jedi Sentinel. Revan's training partner, Bastila, was also a Sentinel. I think it more likely that a new Jedi apprentice would be trained by people from the apprentice's own class.

- We know Revan owned and made modifications to HK-47 prior to his betrayal by Malak. While we don't know whether or not Revan actually built HK-47, skills such as repair and an interest in droids would more closely align with Sentinels than with any other Jedi class, given the Sentinel classification as a skills focused group.

- Revan's decision to rally other Jedi in response to the Mandalorian invasion of Republic space would seem to be more the reaction of a Sentinel (a seeker of justice), or a Guardian (a protector and defender). One would generally expect a more peaceful, reasoned response from a Consular (a seeker of harmony and peace).

- Revan's reputation as an inspirational leader and brilliant tactician in the Mandalorian Wars again aligns more closely with the Jedi Sentinel class than any other Jedi class. I'm not saying that a Consular or Guardian couldn't be an inspiring leader and tactician but I believe one would more reasonably expect only one of these characteristics being displayed from a Consular or Guardian.
I'm not trying to say with 100% certainty that Revan was a Sentinel. What I do believe though is that the information presented in KotOR most strongly supports Revan being a Jedi Sentinel than any other Jedi class. And so far most of those who have voted in this thread poll think so too...

@ lukeiamyourdad - I get that you believe Revan was a consular. I still don't see the prevailing logic of your reasoning but I get that for you Revan was a consular in KotOR. And I'm OK with that ;) More power to ya! Sentinels are reputed for precise strikes I would like to know what your basis is for this argument. Do you get this strictly from TSL? I don't recall any KotOR reference to a Sentinel's battle preferences.

@ MdKnightR - Thanks for your supporting comments. From what I've gathered (but remembering I haven't played TSL yet) it would seem that most forum members think Revan became a Sith Lord. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this was the case. To me it seems quite logical that Revan was a Sentinel who chose the path of a Sith Lord when the time came to choose a Prestige Class.

witchfinder
08-03-2005, 04:57 PM
None of the above. Revan's in a class of his own!

Falcon 117
08-03-2005, 05:31 PM
"Unless I am absolutely mistaken, didn't Revan pull out his saber just before the blast hit the bridge of his flagship? In any event, it is a weak argument because even Palpatine brandished his saber when he was at last cornered by the Jedi." -MdKnightR

True, Revan did have his lightsaber out on his flagship, but he never fought with it. When the Jedi where advancing on him he used force choke to bring some of them down and then the blast hit his flagship.

Venom750
08-03-2005, 05:55 PM
He used force choke to bring down i republic office the jedi were at the back fighting whichmakes me think what the hell was that Republic dude thinking

lukeiamyourdad
08-03-2005, 08:50 PM
- Revan was trained by Master Zhar, a Jedi Sentinel. Revan's training partner, Bastila, was also a Sentinel. I think it more likely that a new Jedi apprentice would be trained by people from the apprentice's own class.


But at this point, you can be anything you want. So it doesn't prove anything.


- We know Revan owned and made modifications to HK-47 prior to his betrayal by Malak. While we don't know whether or not Revan actually built HK-47, skills such as repair and an interest in droids would more closely align with Sentinels than with any other Jedi class, given the Sentinel classification as a skills focused group.


From what you can gather from TSL, Revan did NOT build HK-47. But true nonetheless, it sounds like a Sentinel ability.




- Revan's decision to rally other Jedi in response to the Mandalorian invasion of Republic space would seem to be more the reaction of a Sentinel (a seeker of justice), or a Guardian (a protector and defender). One would generally expect a more peaceful, reasoned response from a Consular (a seeker of harmony and peace).


No does it say that a Consular seeks harmony and peace. If tainted by the Dark Side, Revan would rally troops against the Mandalorians, no matter what class he was. I'm just saying it would be easier for him as a Consular, as they are made to work with others.
Also, your conclusion with such an example makes no sense. Why would he seek justice and not be a protector and defender? Sounds more like a Guardian reaction, according to your example.


- Revan's reputation as an inspirational leader and brilliant tactician in the Mandalorian Wars again aligns more closely with the Jedi Sentinel class than any other Jedi class. I'm not saying that a Consular or Guardian couldn't be an inspiring leader and tactician but I believe one would more reasonably expect only one of these characteristics being displayed from a Consular or Guardian.


It means nothing. If anything, a tactician and inspiring leader should be a Consular. Afterall, they work well with others (according to the questions asked by Master Dorak) and could be good strategists.
If anything, Sentinels only have one of those abilities, being good strategists but no where does it indicate that Sentinels work well with others. If anything, from their scouts roots, they should be loners who explore space.
In the same logic, in TSL, sentinels are considered the saboteurs and stealth assassins of the game, not something that equals to inspirationnal leader.


I'm not trying to say with 100% certainty that Revan was a Sentinel. What I do believe though is that the information presented in KotOR most strongly supports Revan being a Jedi Sentinel than any other Jedi class. And so far most of those who have voted in this thread poll think so too...

The information in KotOR does not support strongly any class in particular. However, it does incline a bit towards Consular, IMO.
And I don't care about statistics, my reason to believe people voted Sentinel, is only because they don't have the choice of a multiclass character and want to vote for something balanced as a compromise.

@ lukeiamyourdad - I get that you believe Revan was a consular. I still don't see the prevailing logic of your reasoning but I get that for you Revan was a consular in KotOR. And I'm OK with that ;) More power to ya!

My Revan was anything. I didn't only play Consular, if anything, it was my least favorite class in KotOR.

I would like to know what your basis is for this argument. Do you get this strictly from TSL? I don't recall any KotOR reference to a Sentinel's battle preferences.

Master Dorak's questions.
It was something about a duel with a dark Jedi. There's a pause in the duel. You had three choices.
1- Attack him again (Guardian)
2- Question him about the reasons he fell to the Dark Side and try to save him (Consular)
3- Find a weakness in his technique (Sentinel)

MdKnightR
08-04-2005, 09:58 AM
Master Dorak's questions.
It was something about a duel with a dark Jedi. There's a pause in the duel. You had three choices.
1- Attack him again (Guardian)
2- Question him about the reasons he fell to the Dark Side and try to save him (Consular)
3- Find a weakness in his technique (Sentinel)

You know, if you go by this, it would seem that Qui-gon Jinn was a Sentinel instead of a Consulor by his actions in the final battle with Darth Maul. In the pause, he didn't say anything to Maul...he meditated, which seems to me that he was reflecting to find a weakness in his technique.

lukeiamyourdad
08-04-2005, 10:01 AM
Possible, or he could just be resting :D

I thought that Qui-Gon was a Guardian. Oh well.

Bob Lion54
08-04-2005, 12:29 PM
I voted consular.

I wish I had something to add, but lukeiamyourdad pretty much covered my reasonings.

Look out Sentinals, Consular is gaining!

Bastila
08-04-2005, 02:05 PM
None of the above. Revan's in a class of his own!


If that was an on the poll i would have voted for that i think he is. Otherwise i voted Sentinel.

MdKnightR
08-04-2005, 02:52 PM
Possible, or he could just be resting :D

I thought that Qui-Gon was a Guardian. Oh well.

Well, if you go by saber colors, he would be a Consular. Since yellow sabers and Jedi classes aren't mentioned in the movies, I would speculate that Guardians use blue, Consulars use green, and Sentinels get to choose.

Bastila
08-04-2005, 03:48 PM
Well, if you go by saber colors, he would be a Consular. Since yellow sabers and Jedi classes aren't mentioned in the movies, I would speculate that Guardians use blue, Consulars use green, and Sentinels get to choose.


Sometimes i think saber colour does't mean anything, so if you think so what does purple stand for or orange??

Venom750
08-04-2005, 04:08 PM
I know this isn't really a fact or has any bearing on the argument but i always thought Revan was a sentinal or Consuler becuase of his pshyic because Guardians tend to look big and bulky because of there intense training like malak he was tall and had muscle whereas Revans was not tall or had that much musle

Smilodon
08-04-2005, 04:25 PM
Sometimes i think saber colour does't mean anything, so if you think so what does purple stand for or orange??

I was just thinking the same.

(Perhaps a prestige class? ... :rolleyes: )

Venom750
08-04-2005, 04:28 PM
I don't know how it coinsided's with the eilm or game but Samual L Jackson asked Geoge Lucas for a different color lightsaber so he could see himself in the big battle on Genosis

MdKnightR
08-04-2005, 06:39 PM
I don't know how it coinsided's with the eilm or game but Samual L Jackson asked Geoge Lucas for a different color lightsaber so he could see himself in the big battle on Genosis

I don't think Geonosis had anything to do with it. The Mace Windu action figures that were produced for Episode 1 had a purple saber with them. That was probably long before Episode 2's script was finalized.

MdKnightR
08-04-2005, 06:43 PM
Sometimes i think saber colour does't mean anything, so if you think so what does purple stand for or orange??

I don't think that sabers mean much at all as far as color. GL himself only recognized blue, green, and red (before Jackson's request for purple) and said that they only represented the difference between good and evil. If you want to think of it like this....maybe Mace is the last of the Jedi Sentinels and purple was their color. It seems as good a reason as any. As for orange, I don't know where they first showed up, but I like 'em....A LOT!

Bob Lion54
08-04-2005, 09:11 PM
In the movies, sabre colour dosent mean anything....Except for red.

I think the sabre colours where most likely chosen for technical reasons.

Mono_Giganto
08-04-2005, 09:26 PM
Heh, I figured it was made up as they went along. Originally it was just Blue = Good and Red = Bad, then they wanted to make Luke unique in RotJ. That's how I saw it.

Char Ell
08-05-2005, 02:42 AM
Alrighty then. I'm ready for the next round... ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong here fellow forum members but I thought we were discussing what class of Jedi Revan most likely was in KotOR, further limiting that to the exclusion of TSL with its Prestige classes.
None of the above. Revan's in a class of his own!
While I agree that Revan is a uniquely powerful Force-sensitive even among Jedi and Dark Jedi, I don't recall the game providing an option for "own class" after completion of the Jedi training sequence on Dantooine. I would ask you to consider that if you think Revan was neither a Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel then it wouldn't make much sense to vote in this poll since those were the only three choices available here and in the game.

But at this point, you can be anything you want. So it doesn't prove anything
Of course at that point in the game you can choose the Jedi class you want to play the PC as. I make reference to that in the starting post of this thread. The question is what class do you think Revan most likely was based off the information presented in the game, not what class you want to play. My favorite combination to play is Scout/Guardian however that is obviously not what class I think Revan most likely is in the KotOR storyline. But if you don't think that Revan's having Sentinels for a master and a training partner has any real significance...

No does it say that a Consular seeks harmony and peace.
To which I respond with the following quote taken straight from KotOR's dialog files (dan13_dorak.dlg):
Master Dorak: Green is the color of the Jedi Consular. This Jedi seeks to bring balance to the universe. They mediate between other groups, using their powers to end conflict and preserve peace.

Why would he seek justice and not be a protector and defender? Sounds more like a Guardian reaction, according to your example.
I agree that Revan's action in this situation does seem more Guardian-like. But since you and I both don't think Revan was a Guardian... I guess the only point I have to make here is how Revan exhibits characteristics of both Guardian and Consular classes which to me more strongly cements Revan's being a Sentinel since I perceive the Sentinel class as lying somewhere in between Guardian and Consular.

If anything, a tactician and inspiring leader should be a Consular. Afterall, they work well with others (according to the questions asked by Master Dorak) and could be good strategists.
If anything, Sentinels only have one of those abilities, being good strategists but no where does it indicate that Sentinels work well with others. If anything, from their scouts roots, they should be loners who explore space.
Consulars work well with others yes but I don't agree with your equating Sentinels as having scout roots. I don't see any real correlation between Scoundrel/Scout/Soldier and any of the Jedi classes. I think Consulars generally have the ability to work well with others but I don't see why a Sentinel couldn't either.

And I don't care about statistics, my reason to believe people voted Sentinel, is only because they don't have the choice of a multiclass character and want to vote for something balanced as a compromise.
That seems like a very logical choice to me. Revan was strong in the Force and in battle. Sentinels study both the force and combat but are usually not strong in either, correct? But as we know Revan excelled in both areas. I'm not sure what you're saying with the multiclass character reference since the game only allows us to choose one Jedi class (unless you mod the game). To be completely honest, I think the same reasoning influenced my decision for Revan's being a Sentinel.

Master Dorak's questions.
It was something about a duel with a dark Jedi. There's a pause in the duel. You had three choices.
1- Attack him again (Guardian)
2- Question him about the reasons he fell to the Dark Side and try to save him (Consular)
3- Find a weakness in his technique (Sentinel)

I am impressed how well you remembered that question. I looked it up in the dialog files and you're almost dead on. If you recall my original question was: (in effect and because I'm getting tired of direct quoting :D) how did you support the statement you made about Sentinels being reputed for precise strikes? So based off your response you equate finding weakness in an opponent's technique to a profound abillty for precision attacks?

:sweating: *in the voice of Austin Powers* and I'm spent!!!

lukeiamyourdad
08-05-2005, 11:05 PM
Of course at that point in the game you can choose the Jedi class you want to play the PC as. I make reference to that in the starting post of this thread. The question is what class do you think Revan most likely was based off the information presented in the game, not what class you want to play. My favorite combination to play is Scout/Guardian however that is obviously not what class I think Revan most likely is in the KotOR storyline. But if you don't think that Revan's having Sentinels for a master and a training partner has any real significance...

Well, Obi-Wan is considered to be a Sentinel, yet Anakin obviously isn't.


To which I respond with the following quote taken straight from KotOR's dialog files (dan13_dorak.dlg):

I don't doubt that. However, if he was already a Dark Sider, would he be a Consular, seeker of peace?

TSL spoiler:
Kreia questions Revan's allegiance from the beginning. You ask her why he fell to the Dark Side. Kreia answers by saying that he might never have fallen, that he was a Dark Sider all along, a bit like Palpatine, hiding himself from the Jedi.



I agree that Revan's action in this situation does seem more Guardian-like. But since you and I both don't think Revan was a Guardian... I guess the only point I have to make here is how Revan exhibits characteristics of both Guardian and Consular classes which to me more strongly cements Revan's being a Sentinel since I perceive the Sentinel class as lying somewhere in between Guardian and Consular.

But he was already a Dark Sider, he would react the same way, Guardian or not. If he's indeed a Dark Sider, then yes, he would exhibit a LS Guardian characteristic, however, that is not an assurance.


Consulars work well with others yes but I don't agree with your equating Sentinels as having scout roots. I don't see any real correlation between Scoundrel/Scout/Soldier and any of the Jedi classes. I think Consulars generally have the ability to work well with others but I don't see why a Sentinel couldn't either.

Actually, the game was built so that:

Soldier=Guardian
Scout=Sentinel
Scoundrel=Consular

Soldiers are specialist at combat, Scouts are the jack-of-all-trades with good skills and Scoundrels are the weaker combatants but rely on other abilities.
TSL messed things up a bit, turning the Sentinel into a stealth assassin with good skills.

That seems like a very logical choice to me. Revan was strong in the Force and in battle. Sentinels study both the force and combat but are usually not strong in either, correct? But as we know Revan excelled in both areas. I'm not sure what you're saying with the multiclass character reference since the game only allows us to choose one Jedi class (unless you mod the game). To be completely honest, I think the same reasoning influenced my decision for Revan's being a Sentinel.

So can a Consular be capable in combat.
I'm talking about a hypothetical multiclass character because people do not want to see Revan lean one way or another. They "think" he's a jack-of-all-trades, but there is no evidence of it. But no where does it say that he excels in any particular area or if excels in both. The conclusion is therefore ours to make.


I am impressed how well you remembered that question. I looked it up in the dialog files and you're almost dead on. If you recall my original question was: (in effect and because I'm getting tired of direct quoting :D) how did you support the statement you made about Sentinels being reputed for precise strikes? So based off your response you equate finding weakness in an opponent's technique to a profound abillty for precision attacks?

Thanks :D Doing it 18 times does help you remember it.

Yes I do equate it. A precise strike would normally target an enemy's weak point in order to cripple him with a simple strike.

Char Ell
08-06-2005, 02:12 PM
We've come to the end of the second week of this poll and the voting still has Jedi Sentinel with a significant lead but Jedi Consular is holding its ground...

Jedi Sentinel - 15 votes (+4 votes since last week)
Jedi Consular - 7 votes (+4 votes since last week)
Jedi Guardian - 3 votes (+2 votes since last week)

For those that haven't voted yet, why haven't you? Don't you have an opinion on these things? So make your choice already!!!

witchfinder
08-06-2005, 02:36 PM
I haven't voted because I still think Revan's in a class of his own! :)

Char Ell
08-06-2005, 03:16 PM
^^^
Well then, I guess I didn't need to say anything after all :)

I thought about asking a mod to add "Revan's own class" as an additional choice on this poll after reading your first post. After further consideration though I decided against because (1) people who already voted may have wanted to change their vote and wouldn't have been able to and (2) I felt that those are the only 3 choices the game offers. Trying to establish a class outside of the game's parameters seems like going way out in left field to me.

Rok_stoned
08-08-2005, 11:54 PM
maybe revan spent time as all three classes you know how in d&d you can change your class at different levels after you got a skill you want so your character can be truly customized

Char Ell
08-13-2005, 10:55 AM
And so the end of this poll's third week has arrived. Considering the activity of this poll post has diminished to its current level, it would seem that Jedi Sentinel has an unsurmountable 13 vote lead over Jedi Consular. Or is there anyone out there who still hasn't voted yet?

Jedi Sentinel - 20 votes(+5 votes since last week)
Jedi Consular - 7 votes (0 votes since last week)
Jedi Guardian - 5 votes (+2 votes since last week)

lukeiamyourdad
08-13-2005, 12:37 PM
26 persons out of 33 are illogical and senseless people :D

JK

Char Ell
08-13-2005, 01:18 PM
There, there now, lukeiamyourdad. Just take a seat in this la-z-boy and take a load off your feet. How about some some milk and chocolate chip cookies? That should make you feel better.
*** Plays some nice relaxing music for lukeiamyourdad ***

;)

Lightsider
08-21-2005, 06:19 PM
I think he was a gaurdian simply because he was a general and very powerfull, Malak couldnt beat him one on one and it is apparent that he used to make fun of malak from what Hk says of him and where the term meatbag came from. Also in the second kotor on Koriban Kreia talks about the great lightsaber abilitys of the past dark lords and says that they were even greater than Revan. So this leads me to a conclusion that Revan had to be a gaurdian before, and after the council errased his mind he could become anything. Remember the dream seqeunce when bastilla was on board with the other Jedi, there were at least four of them to take on Revan.
Or am I just reading to much into the whole thing....LOL

Emperor Devon
08-21-2005, 09:19 PM
I don't think Revan's regular class matters much, but his prestige class....

I would have to go with Sith Lord.

lukeiamyourdad
08-21-2005, 09:38 PM
I think he was a gaurdian simply because he was a general and very powerfull, Malak couldnt beat him one on one and it is apparent that he used to make fun of malak from what Hk says of him and where the term meatbag came from.

Because only Guardians can defeat their enemies? What does making fun of Malak have anything to do with anything?

Also in the second kotor on Koriban Kreia talks about the great lightsaber abilitys of the past dark lords and says that they were even greater than Revan.

So the fact that ancient Sith Lords were better then Revan at the lightsaber means that he's a Guardian? He at least could be a Sentinel and be an excellent saberist. Even a Consular isn't half bad with a saber.

Remember the dream seqeunce when bastilla was on board with the other Jedi, there were at least four of them to take on Revan.
Or am I just reading to much into the whole thing....LOL

Because only Guardians can take on more then one enemy at once? Force Storm anyone?

MdKnightR
08-22-2005, 02:38 AM
MdKnightR wonders when lukeiamyourdad will admit defeat... :tank1:

lukeiamyourdad
08-22-2005, 10:08 AM
No capitulation. Only death!

Besides, I accept Sentinel having more votes but Guardian? Why Guardian? It makes absolutely no sense!

Emperor Devon
08-22-2005, 01:50 PM
You guys all seem to be determining Revan's power based on his class rather than himself. He could be a consular and still be one of the best lightsaber duelists in the galaxy.

Mono_Giganto
08-22-2005, 02:11 PM
Conselor just means that your force powers are better than your saber abilities, it doesn't specifically require that one of them be at a low standard. They could both be excellent, just FP would be better.

Char Ell
08-24-2005, 02:15 AM
Yes, Revan could have been a Consular or a Guardian. But I still think Revan most likely a Sentinel. I know LIAYD doesn't think so though :D

I too am surprised that Guardian has overtaken Consular in the voting. In my estimation Consular is the next most likely class, after Sentinel that is...

Rok_stoned
08-28-2005, 11:46 PM
MdKnightR wonders when lukeiamyourdad will admit defeat...

*plays ride of the valkyries over luke's whimpering of fear.


j/k

BattleDog
09-11-2005, 06:49 PM
You know I see a lot of talk here about abilities but very little about what the role of the classes is.

Consular: Seeks to bring balance to the force, is a mediator a diplomat and a teacher. They eek to solve mistories of the universe through the force.

Sentinal: Ferrits out deciet, looks for the hidden enemies. Sentinals are self reliant and used to working alone, behind the scenes.

Gaudians: Seek out the dark side and destroy it, direct confrontation. They focus on the martial arts, use of the light sabre and tactics.

The key to determining Reven's class is to ask what his reaction was the Mandalorian Invasion.

A. Direct action, confront and destroy. This strongly suggests Reven was a Guardian. Added to this is his obvious flare for strategy and tactics. The fact that he built assassin droids for a hobby and discovered the Star Forge doesn't change the fact that at the core he is a warrior.

Analia
09-11-2005, 06:52 PM
Sentiel

Sabretooth
09-12-2005, 12:53 AM
I picked Sentinel, because he is too slim and smart to be a Guardian and too cool to be a Consular.

<_<
>_>

Char Ell
09-13-2005, 12:31 AM
You know I see a lot of talk here about abilities but very little about what the role of the classes is.
:eyeraise: Eh? What's that you say? Um, have you read all the posts on this thread? Each class has been brought up and many have presented their arguments for Revan's class based off what we know about Revan's actions. Significant debate has occurred already. The whole point of this thread is to provide arguments to support your opinion on Revan's Jedi class.

If you feel that Revan is a Guardian then OK, but I'm not convinced. You base your argument off of one decision in Revan's life, to go and fight the Mandalorian invasion, and seem to ignore all of Revan's other actions. I've already argued that action could be reasonably expected from a Guardian or Sentinel.

If you're interested, review my argument posted on 08-02-2005 10:53 PM in this thread. Then if you care to refute my arguments with your own, go right ahead. But if you're just going to traipse in and say "Revan was a Guardian because Revan decided to fight the Mandalorians" then you can do just that. I'm not one to give much consideration to simple and understated arguments though.

SITHSLAYER133
09-13-2005, 05:49 AM
gaurdians rush headlong into any conflict
sentinals may use a force power or 2
consulars are the major tactiacions

SITHSLAYER133
09-13-2005, 05:50 AM
i mean none of these classes really suit him because he was in reality everything rolled into one

Char Ell
09-13-2005, 10:11 AM
^^^
I think you and BattleDog take a much too simplistic view of matters. Your argument that Revan was everything rolled into one has essentially already been made. If that's where you imagination takes you then I understand but I don't agree with this idea that Revan was a multi-class or all-classes individual. If you will refer to a post I made to this thread on 08-04-2005 @ 11:42 PM...


Originally posted by witchfinder
None of the above. Revan's in a class of his own!

Originally posted by Hai Wan
While I agree that Revan is a uniquely powerful Force-sensitive even among Jedi and Dark Jedi, I don't recall the game providing an option for "own class" after completion of the Jedi training sequence on Dantooine. I would ask you to consider that if you think Revan was neither a Consular, Guardian, or Sentinel then it wouldn't make much sense to vote in this poll since those were the only three choices available here and in the game.

gaurdians rush headlong into any conflict
sentinals may use a force power or 2
consulars are the major tactiacions
What is your factual basis for these statements? I don't recall anything from the game that would support what you've said.

SITHSLAYER133
09-15-2005, 06:34 AM
start agian and go to dantooine and read the comp tellin u about the classes

SITHSLAYER133
09-15-2005, 06:36 AM
but its hard to imagine revan as either tho

Char Ell
09-15-2005, 01:40 PM
but its hard to imagine revan as either tho
Whatever floats your boat, hombre. :)

start agian and go to dantooine and read the comp tellin u about the classes
Uh, no I don't think so. Homey don't play that.
:stick: I think it's pretty lame when someone states something as fact, then when asked to back it up that person responds, "Go look it up yourself." :stick:

I've played KotOR enough to recognize when someone uses dialog from the game. And I don't recall the training computer on Dantooine describing the Jedi classes as:
gaurdians rush headlong into any conflict
sentinals may use a force power or 2
consulars are the major tactiacions
Since you can't or won't make the effort to provide factual basis for your argument I guess I'll go ahead and do it for you. In so doing I think it will become readily apparent that your statements have no support.
Using Fred Tetra's fantabulous KotOR Tool I extracted the following from the Dantooine training computer dialog file (dan13_tutorial.dlg):
Jedi Guardians train for battle and physical prowess. In contrast, Jedi Consulars seek to master the awesome power of the Force. Jedi Sentinels seek to find a balance between these two extremes.
If you take the time to review your statement of the classes and compare it to this I don't see how any rational person would see how they equate. In essence, you have taken the Jedi classes of KotOR and assigned your own definition to them.
:launcher: :smash: Perhaps you sense my annoyance at this point? :smash: :blaze6:
Look, I understand that many people, if not all, like to spin their own ideas into the KotOR universe. If you want to think that Revan wasn't one of the three Jedi classes and was unique then that is your prerogative and I respect that. However when you choose to participate in a group forum that is debating a particular topic I think it a reasonable expectation that you should be able to back up your particular point of view. Not just what you think, but why. After all, it's your interpretation of the KotOR universe, not mine.

SITHSLAYER133
09-15-2005, 09:44 PM
i spose ur right i must of been on drugs

but thats wat ive have sorta thought for ages

Please stop double-posting. This is the second time I've edited your posts.
If you need to make changes to your post (especially within 1 minute, USE the "edit" button. - ChAiNz.2da

REDJOHNNYMIKE
09-16-2005, 02:16 AM
I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M ACTUALLY BACKING UP LIAYD!!!

I believe that at his core he is a consular, because of his power in the force, he is quite simply the most powerful person of his time, his natural afinity with the force would make it come easier to him giving him time to focus on combat and skills as well.

But I see it this way you have Guardians like Malak and Sion who wade through battle crushing whatever gets in their way, Sentinals like Bastila who use stealth attacks to neutralize their targets, then you have those like Revan who tower over the battlefield and use their increased Wisdom, intelligence and charisma to bend the flow of battle to their will, while Intelligence is a staple of the sentinel, and charisma is more general, a full understanding of them would most likely be achieved by a master of the force, who naturally focuses more on mental disciplines and complete awareness of his surroundings.

Another way I see it is that because of his power, he was always truly consular, but when young his curiosity guided him more in the role of the sentinal, then as he grew his discoveries pushed him more into the realm of the guardian because he started to act a bit more rashly, and as he matured and his wisdom and experience grew he finally fulfilled his destiny of consular through not only his wise strategies but his awareness of "other" events, which influenced his decisions, this is why I believe that he shows aptitude in all classes, but he has no rival as a consular, an unnaturally strong connection with the force seems to best describe him.

Char Ell
09-16-2005, 11:17 AM
Well said RJM. Compared to some of your other posts that I've read, that has got to be once of the most insightful and well stated opinions you've made IMHO. ;)

TheGreenGoblin
09-17-2005, 12:01 PM
Here's how I look at it:

The first thing that's important is that we drop Game mechanics, because if we're trying to figure out what Revan really was, then we have to do so in context of the story.

We are told many times Revan was strong in the force, some take this to mean he was a Jedi Consular, but I think some are mistaking "Strong in the Force" to mean had a ****load of Force Powers. Everything a Jedi does uses the Force, from jumping across the room, sensing danger or the feelings of others, to blocking blaster shots and pinpoint motions of Lightsaber combat. Anakin Skywalker is considered by many to be one of the most strongest Force powered individuals in all of Star Wars, but most would agree he was a Jedi Guardian.

We also know Revan was able to beat Mandalore in one-on-one combat, pointing to a strong melee character (Jedi Guardian), but what were the conditions of this battle? Was it an all-out no holds barred conflict or an honorable duel, did Revan use his saber or did he use the force? We're not told either way.

I've seen people use HK-47 as evidence pointing to a Revan Sentinel, but we really don't know under what conditions HK was built. Was it Revan by himself in a workshop? Did Revan have the help of a crack-team of engineers, or did Revan merely have HK built for him by underlings? And if Revan did in fact build HK himself does this necessarily point to the role of a Sentinel? Once again, Anakin Skywalker managed to create Threepio at a young age and grew up to be a Guardian. Importantly however, is if he did build HK all by himself, that doesn't point to being a Sentinel but instead towards a Scout (since that's where skill in repair originates from), however in the context of the story, outside of game mechanics, one could still become a Counsular or Guardian and still possess good natural ability with droids.

Ultimately, there is nothing conclusive, there are tidbits here and there but not once is there a single shred of evidence that says Revan was THIS. Everything, thanks to the careful work of Bioware, can be viewed as the player wants it to be. So in conclusion, Revan's whatever you want him or her to be.

BattleDog
09-18-2005, 05:38 PM
Firstly I'd like to apologize for the sweeping nature of my previous post. I was running short of net time, then I saw this topic and wanted to post something.

As I said before I believe Reven was a Guardian, the reson for this is that when you look at the main thrust of Reven's character his core skills seem to be in war. Personnal combat, leadership, tactics. My real reson for feeling he is a Guardian is that I believe the kind of Jedi that would defy the Council to confront the Mandalorians directly in battle would be a warrior.

Or took look at it another way a Jedi with such a flair for battle and warfaring would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.

lukeiamyourdad
09-18-2005, 05:43 PM
As I said before I believe Reven was a Guardian, the reson for this is that when you look at the main thrust of Reven's character his core skills seem to be in war. Personnal combat, leadership, tactics. My real reson for feeling he is a Guardian is that I believe the kind of Jedi that would defy the Council to confront the Mandalorians directly in battle would be a warrior.

Any Dark Sider would defy the Jedi Council. It means nothing. The question now was when Revan was corrupted. Before the start of the Mandolarian wars or during it.


Or took look at it another way a Jedi with such a flair for battle and warfaring would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.

The thing is Jedi frown upon warfare. No Jedi Master would make Revan into a great tactician or anything related directly to war. Perhaps ways to end them quickly without a large bloodshed but not how to command fleets and legions of troops.

SITHSLAYER133
09-19-2005, 12:02 AM
some people are born with certain skills some have a telent for manipulation or fighting revan was really intelligent and sposed to be able to manipulate events to his liking which is considered to be stradagy

TheGreenGoblin
09-19-2005, 08:58 AM
The thing is Jedi frown upon warfare. No Jedi Master would make Revan into a great tactician or anything related directly to war. Perhaps ways to end them quickly without a large bloodshed but not how to command fleets and legions of troops.

Yes but we're told Revan had a lust for knowledge. I'm sure he didn't limit himself to only Jedi teachings.

lukeiamyourdad
09-19-2005, 09:43 AM
But he wouldn't learn that from the Jedi would he?
And Sithslayer did say that he would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.
Besides, your argument about lust for knowledge would indicate him being a Consular more then a Guardian.

TheGreenGoblin
09-19-2005, 12:17 PM
But he wouldn't learn that from the Jedi would he?
And Sithslayer did say that he would be molded into a Guardian by his masters.
Besides, your argument about lust for knowledge would indicate him being a Consular more then a Guardian.


How does being a Consular or a Guardian for that matter affect his ability to read and think about various texts that Revan might have read over the years. Are you using gaming mechanics here or are you trying to figure out Revan's class within the context of the story?



On another note: Revan briefly appears in KoTOR 2, is there any way somebody with technical ability to try and see if they could find out what Revan is exactly.

lukeiamyourdad
09-19-2005, 05:29 PM
How does being a Consular or a Guardian for that matter affect his ability to read and think about various texts that Revan might have read over the years. Are you using gaming mechanics here or are you trying to figure out Revan's class within the context of the story?

The game says that Consulars are learner, while Guardians are warriors. They're the Priests to the Paladins.
Warriors, with a slightly stereotypical description, are not the smartest fellows around. They're the strongest in terms of brute strength.
A lust for knowledge, like you said, would be an archetype of the priest-like character, of the consular.

One thing you must remember though, we cannot toss the game mechanics aside. If we did, we'd also have to toss out the character classes, making this entire discussion pointless.

BattleDog
09-19-2005, 06:08 PM
I think your right about the Consular being preists, medieval monks might be a better description. However I feal the word Paladin is wrong for Guardians. Warrior monk might be better. Think of the Shaulin monks, very enlightened but also very deadly. I think the steriotype of dumb warriors is a bit silly really. No swordsman gets by on strength and speed, he beats his opponent with strategy, bladework and temperment.

SITHSLAYER133
09-19-2005, 09:43 PM
i didnt say he would be moldeld into a gaurdian but i think i think the masters who taught revan would have each put a different spin on his training
as in kavar was a gaurdian. which means that in essence he might have learned all three styles of jedi which would have made him the sorta ultra jedi that he was

RedHawke
09-19-2005, 09:59 PM
However I feal the word Paladin is wrong for Guardians.
Nope, it is spot on! I do realise the word Paladin is disliked by some people, but remember the base D20 system and settings are rooted in Western Fantasy (L.O.T.R.).

Since the KOTOR games are based on D20 so, Paladins are directly akin to Guardians. Conselars are directly akin to Clerics. Sentinels are the only new class as there is no Fantasy D20 ancestry, the nearest you could get is a Cleric/Rogue or Fighter/Cleric multi-class.

I think the steriotype of dumb warriors is a bit silly really.
Me too! Paladins are anything but big dumb swordsmen... Barbarians or Warriors possibly, but not Paladins! :D

TheGreenGoblin
09-20-2005, 12:26 AM
The game says that Consulars are learner, while Guardians are warriors. They're the Priests to the Paladins.
Warriors, with a slightly stereotypical description, are not the smartest fellows around. They're the strongest in terms of brute strength.
A lust for knowledge, like you said, would be an archetype of the priest-like character, of the consular.

No the game in fact says that the Consular are focused on understanding the mysteries of the Force (or something close to that). Show me the line where it says ingame that the Consular is smarter than the Sentinel or Guardian (not using stats).



One thing you must remember though, we cannot toss the game mechanics aside. If we did, we'd also have to toss out the character classes, making this entire discussion pointless.

True enough but there has to be some kind of compromise made, for example I doubt the Jedi allow their students to choose their career path after a 3-4 question personality test. Or that the Jedi really condoned their students tapping heavily into DS powers.


Again if anyone could try and find out what class the Revan npc in KoTOR II is that could be a great help. I think this is possible, I know people found Malak's stats and character class for KoTOR I.

deathdisco
09-20-2005, 05:13 PM
There are .utc's in both games for Revan. Both say his class is Jedi Guardian. Not that that means anything. In KOTOR Tool go to:
Bifs->Templates.bif->Blueprint,Character->n_darthrevan.utc

Char Ell
09-20-2005, 05:43 PM
:eyeraise::drop2: :mult1: :ball:
I looked it up in the .bifs section and it was right where deathdisco said. So much for the debate... ::
Well, the only argument I can think to make after that little revelation is that maybe Revan chose a different class after the mind wipe. Other than that... :wornout:

TheGreenGoblin
09-20-2005, 06:51 PM
:eyeraise::drop2: :mult1: :ball:
I looked it up in the .bifs section and it was right where deathdisco said. So much for the debate... ::
Well, the only argument I can think to make after that little revelation is that maybe Revan chose a different class after the mind wipe. Other than that... :wornout:


Of course, Revan did undergo an entire personality(at least if you go lightside)/memory change, whatever skill and focus he might have had as the Dark Lord was now raw and untapped, he could focus it any way he pleased.

lukeiamyourdad
09-20-2005, 08:44 PM
:eyeraise::drop2: :mult1: :ball:
I looked it up in the .bifs section and it was right where deathdisco said. So much for the debate... ::
Well, the only argument I can think to make after that little revelation is that maybe Revan chose a different class after the mind wipe. Other than that... :wornout:


Looks like we got both got owned by the pro-Guardian people.

*pads Hai Wan on the back.

Char Ell
09-20-2005, 10:31 PM
Yes. All my arguments and rebuttals...
*** the loud sound of a toilet flushing ***

I just never imagined Revan as a Jedi Guardian.

But, on the bright side, it was a pretty good debate. I enjoyed making my point and also enjoyed those that intelligently made their points as well.

Here's to LIAYD for some excellent mental jousts! :drink1:
And here's to everyone else who participated in this poll! :drink1:
And I raise my glass to those who voted Guardian, in spite of the overwhelming arguments and votes in favor of the other two classes :drink1:
And to all those who actually argued for Revan being a Jedi Guardian... I salute you! :drink1:
Cheeeers to all of ush... who *hiccup* love the KotOR universh :drink1:
Aaand to my long lost cat... whuruver you urr *hic*... uhhh, may... she rust in... peace :drink3:
*** merciful unconsciousness overtakes Hai Wan ***

lukeiamyourdad
09-20-2005, 10:38 PM
Cheers mate! *raises glass in honor of a useless debate

To all the time we've wasted here!

TheGreenGoblin
09-21-2005, 07:04 AM
The most gracious losers are often the best winners. ;)

BattleDog
09-21-2005, 05:34 PM
*Dances a little jig.*

Sorry, looks like my last post got eaten. The jist of it was that I was ignoring K2 in my judgements, because the "fallen hero" is the angle in K1. In K2 its rather different, Obsidion's story might lead to a different interpretation of Reven's class.

Looks like I was right. You had good (probably better thought out, in this case) arguments. Wish I could have been a better Devil's advocate for you.