PDA

View Full Version : Bastila's choice of lightsabers


Char Ell
07-23-2005, 02:24 AM
It seems like the Republic Newsfeed needs a little more posting action. KotOR is such a good game it shouldn't be ignored just because its sequel came out. :D

Please excuse me if this topic has been covered in the past. My cursory search of the General Discussion boards didn't reveal anything that seemed to be along these lines but it may have been in "The Lost Threads."

So what is the deal with Bastila and her choice of lightsaber types? In the "visions" that occur in the game Bastila uses a single bladed lightsaber when with the other Jedi she confronts Darth Revan on his ship. On Taris however she recovers her double-bladed lightsaber after dispatching Brejik. And of course she starts with the basic two-weapon feat as opposed to the basic dueling feat when she joins the group on Taris.

So was this something that got changed during development or what?

Achilles
07-23-2005, 03:58 AM
Hint 1: There is a very significant event that occurs between the time we first see her with a single saber and when we see her later with a double-bladed saber.

Hint 2: Double-bladed sabers are traditionally associated with Dark Jedi.

Char Ell
07-23-2005, 02:00 PM
@ Achilles

:confused: Would that significant event be revealed in TSL? If so then I guess the cat is out of the bag. Nope, I haven't played TSL yet. Not that I haven't wanted to. KotOR played marginally well on my current PC and I just want to wait and play it when I have the finances to purchase a system that will do TSL justice. No more compromising the gameplaying experience for me.

I do understand and accept your reference to double sabers being more commonly associated with Dark Jedi. You wouldn't happen to be referring to Bastila using the Force to maintain the flicker of life in Revan after Malak attacked Revan's ship, would you?

MdKnightR
07-24-2005, 01:49 AM
I, too, noticed this change. I never knew what to think of it. Still don't.

RedHawke
07-24-2005, 02:00 AM
From what the story infers/tells us, Bastila is changed after meeting and saving Revan, not only did she become connected to Revan, she became more succeptable to the Darkside because she touched the Darkside through Revan, and secretly liked it.

Achilles
07-24-2005, 02:10 AM
Kudos to Redhawke :D

Not sure if I agree with the "secretly liked it" part though. :(

RedHawke
07-24-2005, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Achilles
Not sure if I agree with the "secretly liked it" part though. :(
Perhaps I worded it incorrectly (trying to save some keystrokes), a better wording might be;
As a result of her touching the DS through Revan, Bastila secretly has a desire to explore the DS.

Smilodon
07-24-2005, 05:04 AM
Bastila also mentions when you are strong aligned to the light side that how hard she finds it to stay on the path of the light, also a slight indication of her tendency to the dark side.

Bastila
07-24-2005, 08:17 AM
Or maybe she just thourght i want a double blanded lightsaber as i think i can handle it as i thourght Revan (kind of), to show more skill.

Venom750
07-24-2005, 10:31 AM
I know its only in the Vision but i've always wonder how she was able to take the Dark Jedi she was fighting. Because she not really that good and plus she says "You can't win Revan" when the other 3 Jedi join her and i'm always thinking YOU CAN'T BEAT REVAN HAHAHA.

MdKnightR
07-24-2005, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Venom750
I know its only in the Vision but i've always wonder how she was able to take the Dark Jedi she was fighting. Because she not really that good and plus she says "You can't win Revan" when the other 3 Jedi join her and i'm always thinking YOU CAN'T BEAT REVAN HAHAHA.

Much the way that Palpatine dispatched all of those Jedi that came to put him under arrest, I think that Revan would have likely done the same against Bastila's team had it not been for an ambitious and cowardly apprentice!

As for why she later chose to wield a doubleblade, who cares! I know everyone says that they are usually associated with the dark side. Perhaps she woke up the morning before the Endar Spire was shot out of the sky and said, "You know, I feel like carrying this doubleblade today." You know how women can be with accessories! Maybe Bastilla took lessons from Zez-Kai Ell. Ever think of that? Noone is questioning the Jedi Master's reasons for wielding such a weapon. Besides, I know that when I first played KOTOR that I started using one as soon as I found one, and I almost always play Light Side characters.

Char Ell
07-25-2005, 10:54 AM
So let me get this straight, Achilles and RedHawke. You're saying that because Bastila used the Force to save Revan's life and thus created the bond between herself and Revan, she gained insight into Revan's mind and the power of the dark side, then she decided to switch from the Jedi standard lightsaber to a double-bladed saber? (was that a run-on sentence :D) Hmmm... while I can see that interpretation of events I have a difficult time fully embracing it. Imagine when Bastila shows up at the Jedi enclave on Dantooine, packing a double-bladed lightsaber...

Master Zhar: Greetings, Padawan Bastila. I could not help but notice that you carry a dual-bladed lightsaber now. I find that strange and of concern. Why have you decided to forego the Jedi's single bladed lightsaber?

Bastila: Uhhh, mmmm, well... I just thought I would try it out and see what these double sabers are all about, Master Zhar.

Master Zhar: Surely, Padawan Bastila, there's more to it than that. A Jedi does not simply change her lightsaber merely because she "wants to try it out." The lightsaber a Jedi wields is much too important to be subject to a whim.

Bastila: :firemad: Look Master Zhar, I want to use a double-bladed lightsaber now, OK! I've got the Battle Meditation so leave me alone or I won't use my BM to support the war anymore. Got it?

Master Zhar: Indeed padawan. Perhaps I can escort you to our Jedi counseling center. It would seem that you require assistance with anger management.

@MDKnightR: I care... otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread. I wanted to find out what other KotOR fans thought. I, like you, am still not sure what to make of it for reasons stated above.

@Achilles and Redhawke - BTW and off-topic - thanks for the KotOR mods you guys make. They're great! :clap2: I use Achilles' Knight Items and RedHawke's Item and Booster Packs.

Achilles
07-25-2005, 01:03 PM
1st, thanks for the kudos. Nice to hear that not all my K1 stuff is gathering dust :)

As for the rest, feel free to take whatever interpretation that you wish. Bastila mentions several times throughout the game that she's taken aback by how powerfully the bond has affected her. A powerful, but impressionable Jedi has an encounter with a powerful Sith Lord. The Jedi uses the Force to touch (and salvage) the mind of the Sith Lord, creating a strong Force bond. Said Jedi then begins using double-bladed lightsaber. Coincidence? Possibly, but it makes a heck of a lot of sense to me.

I don't know if the encounter gave her any "insight" into Revan or the Dark Side, but I imagine that such an intimate use of the Force probably helped to fuel the seed of doubt in Bastila. If it helps, think of the double-bladed saber as physical representation of the beginning of Bastila's fall. That's how I assume the devs wanted us to see it and it would also seem to foreshadow the events that transpire later in the game. As for how the Counsel responded to the change; your theory sounds about as reasonable as any other ;)

Char Ell
07-26-2005, 01:01 AM
@ Achilles
Well, I thought about it quite a bit at work today. My current job doesn't require my full attention so I can devote some brain cycles to non-work matters. :p

In any case, the more I thought about it the more it came down to it's how you describe it or it was a cutscene that got created and then the dev team decided to change things after the cutscene was already done. At this point I think the former scenario more likely than the latter. Bioware did too good of a job with KotOR to have overlooked this.
The only real sticking point I still have is the matter of none of the named Sith characters in the story (Revan and Malak) are depicted using a double-bladed lightsaber. So what exactly was it that inspired Bastila to make the change? I guess we'll never really know. Without further details your theory seems the most plausible.

Thanks to all for their input. If anybody else has any ideas, please don't hesitate to post.

MdKnightR
07-26-2005, 01:45 AM
I think part of my previous post was ignored. What does anyone think about Master Zez-Kai Ell using the doublesaber?

Achilles
07-26-2005, 02:39 AM
I'm more concerned about the choices he makes with is facial hair than I am what kind of saber he uses. Maybe it's normal for Jedi from Village People World to use double-bladed lightsabers.

BTW, your previous msg regard Zez-Kai Ell seemed rather rhetorical. Maybe that's why no one responded.

MdKnightR
07-26-2005, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by Achilles
I'm more concerned about the choices he makes with is facial hair than I am what kind of saber he uses. Maybe it's normal for Jedi from Village People World to use double-bladed lightsabers.

BTW, your previous msg regard Zez-Kai Ell seemed rather rhetorical. Maybe that's why no one responded.

:rofl:

Yes, you are probably right. It did sound a bit rhetorical. I was just curious about what others had to say about it. It seems that people in this thread are acting as if Bastila is the only one.

Achilles
07-26-2005, 03:57 AM
Well for all intents and purposes, it seems like OE just wanted to make sure that each saber style was represented by the Counsel *shrug*.

That's about as far as I got with that one.

Achilles
07-26-2005, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by Hai Wan

The only real sticking point I still have is the matter of none of the named Sith characters in the story (Revan and Malak) are depicted using a double-bladed lightsaber. Darth Bandon anyone? :D The devs have stated that they were trying for a Vader feel without being Vader for Malak which explains why he used a single blade. As for Revan, who knows?

Prime
07-26-2005, 08:48 AM
Single saber is cooler anyway. ;)

Char Ell
07-26-2005, 09:39 AM
Oh, uh, Darth Bandon, yeah...
DOH!!! :headbump
***Hai Wan remembers he forgot to take his memory stimulants***
:wstupid:

Bastila
07-26-2005, 10:25 AM
Ok, why does it make you kinda DS if you have a double blanded saber, also maybe Bastila just wanted one. People will asking next why's it yellow lol.

Smilodon
07-26-2005, 10:36 AM
Cause she's a Sentinel? :ugly:

The double-bladed lightsaber is preferred by mostly Dark Jedi and it's more a offensive weapon. Jedi should only use the force and their lightsaber for defense.

Achilles
07-26-2005, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Bastila
Ok, why does it make you kinda DS if you have a double blanded saber, also maybe Bastila just wanted one. People will asking next why's it yellow lol. Well, ignoring Exar Kun and Darth Maul completely, I guess I just have to go with the item description. :eyeraise:

Bastila
07-26-2005, 03:13 PM
on hear it mentions about her saber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastila_Shan

MdKnightR
07-26-2005, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Bastila
on hear it mentions about her saber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastila_Shan

Thanks for the link! AWESOME PIC! GREEN (possibly Viridian), not that icky YELLOW!

MdKnightR
07-26-2005, 04:20 PM
I just got through reading this biography and I believe it to be the best possible explanation of this topic. I also liked the way it mentioned Zez-Kai Ell as being the only other Jedi during that era to have wielded the weapon.

Personally, I like the weapons, but only if wielded by female characters (light or dark side notwithstanding). (I may have mentioned that in an earlier thread in the Ahto Cantina.) Male characters are too proportionally large in the game to make it look good.

Rok_stoned
07-26-2005, 07:05 PM
the duble bladed lightsabers are only asccoiated w/ the darkside because its a traditional weapon and therefore probably has a deeper meaning to them than the jedi. However the jedi view it simply as a lightsaber nothing more.

as for why bastilla chose the duble blade: it had nothing to do with her mind being infested with the vile thoughts of the darkside, being influenced by revan or having revans will imprinted on her very soul; odds are she just felt that it was time for her skill to reach a new level or maybe she lost another and thought she would build another to show her transcendence from a lowly padawan. or it was a psycology thing to mae it seem like a long time age since they didn't say the time difference or show the age difference of anyone.

Char Ell
07-26-2005, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by PsionicBeverage
However the jedi view it simply as a lightsaber nothing more.
That's not what Master Zhar said...

The link Bastila posted to the Wikipedia article about herself :D is quite good. Considering though that Wikipedia articles are created by whomever wants to sign up to be an editor...

I don't know about that whole "canonical" reference to the light side ending of KotOR.

Achilles
07-27-2005, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by PsionicBeverage
the duble bladed lightsabers are only asccoiated w/ the darkside because its a traditional weapon and therefore probably has a deeper meaning to them than the jedi. However the jedi view it simply as a lightsaber nothing more.

as for why bastilla chose the duble blade: it had nothing to do with her mind being infested with the vile thoughts of the darkside, being influenced by revan or having revans will imprinted on her very soul; odds are she just felt that it was time for her skill to reach a new level or maybe she lost another and thought she would build another to show her transcendence from a lowly padawan. or it was a psycology thing to mae it seem like a long time age since they didn't say the time difference or show the age difference of anyone. Well, that's one interpretation. One that I don't agree with and doesn't seem to be supported by the devs, but nonetheless...

Bastila
07-27-2005, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by MdKnightR
Thanks for the link! AWESOME PIC! GREEN (possibly Viridian), not that icky YELLOW!

i like yellow, i'm not keen on green.

Rok_stoned
07-27-2005, 11:16 PM
Well, that's one interpretation. One that I don't agree with and doesn't seem to be supported by the devs, but nonetheless...

my explanation is completely unfounded on anything other than the way it psycologicaly affect people or makes them think if the devs don't realise it then they made this immersive experience by fluke not design.

P.s could you find me a link or two to dev articles i'd love to see what they think

Achilles
07-28-2005, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by PsionicBeverage
my explanation is completely unfounded on anything other than the way it psycologicaly affect people or makes them think if the devs don't realise it then they made this immersive experience by fluke not design.

P.s could you find me a link or two to dev articles i'd love to see what they think Your argument might make more sense with punctuation. As for a link, there isn't one. Since the devs made the story and the story implies (to some of us) that the switch to the double-saber was a manifestation of Bastila's bonding with Revan (a Sith Lord), then the devs seem to be supporting the theory.

Again, it's just another theory. How you intend to support your theory is what I'm waiting for.

THE VIGILANTE
07-28-2005, 03:18 AM
The double-bladed lightsaber, to my knowledge, was created by Exar Kun and since then, there have been fewer and fewer users.

After Darth Bane, all Sith (with the exception of Darth Maul) used single bladed lightsabers (because there was rarely any need for a lightsaber during those 1000 years).

Anyways, the Jedi in KotOR saga used the double-bladed lightsaber for double-defense while the Sith used it for double-offense.

Bastila
07-28-2005, 06:09 AM
In TSL, does't Vrook use a double bladed lightsaber and his not DS, so it means nothing really if you have a doubke blanded it just means your maybe better at combat with double then single or you just good really, but i think it has nothing to do with the DS or Revan really.

ChAiNz.2da
07-28-2005, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by Bastila
In TSL, does't Vrook use a double blanded lightsaber and his not DS, so it means nothing really if you have a doubke blanded it just means your maybe better at combat with double then single or you just good really, but i think it has nothing to do with the DS or Revan really.
Master Zez Kai Ell does (the biker Jedi)... but you're right (IMO) about his not being DS affiliated.. :)

Not really sure on the 'canon' definition, but it seems that most people affiliate the double-saber with the DS (based on TPM by introducing Darth Maul using one)...

Me personally, I just see it as just another tool for Force users...just like any other weaponry no matter the genre, that's just me though ;)

Bastila
07-28-2005, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by ChAiNz.2da

Me personally, I just see it as just another tool for Force users...just like any other weaponry no matter the genre, that's just me though ;)

Thats all i see it as, no connection to LS or DS at all just a tool, a symbol to show you as a force user.

THE VIGILANTE
07-28-2005, 08:47 AM
^^^^

That's what it is supposed to be. It makes it's presense in the DS or LS by the actions of it's owner (At least, that's how the EU authors put it).

MdKnightR
07-28-2005, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Bastila
double blanded lightsaber

There's nothing bland about a double-bladed lightsaber. :p

Bastila
07-28-2005, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by MdKnightR
There's nothing bland about a double-bladed lightsaber. :p

No theres not lol, (i have edited it know)

Rok_stoned
07-28-2005, 03:29 PM
well you see my theory is just based off the fact that the double bladed saber is a symbol to the sith and just another saber to the jedi, just like bastil posted.

Since the devs made the story and the story implies (to some of us) that the switch to the double-saber was a manifestation of Bastila's bonding with Revan

but wait if thats true how come revan uses a single blade?

POP!

oops there goes your theory you may wish to coble together another...

p.s i don't pay attention to punctuation when im typing i even posted about this before in the suggestion forum.

Achilles
07-28-2005, 10:15 PM
Since we're operating within the construct of the game the devs made and the devs stated that the double-bladed saber is an offensive weapon preferred by Dark Jedi, then I think my theory is pretty sound.

There is obviously no reasoning with you, so I'm just going to drop it.

...and my comment re: punctuation was there because I couldn't understand what you were saying without it; not because I'm a stickler. I, for one, don't like having to guess where the sentence ends.

Rok_stoned
07-28-2005, 10:20 PM
srry about that. I find it hard to read emotions in forums i guess thats why we invented smilies.

but revan still doesn't use a double blade so the double blade probably didn't come from there.

anyways your probably right we should drop it and move on.