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Weirdbeard
07-28-2005, 04:17 PM
I am looking to see if anyone knows of any rumors or facts about a new Jedi Knight game. Not about the storyline or what you hope it will or will not have. I'm looking to see if anyone knows anyone from Lucasarts that may have leaked something or anything of that nature. I want to know IF this game is actually going to happen. I've seen threads that have had similar comments but they always seem to become tainted with people's fantasies of the game play. For this thread I really dont care about detail of the game itself. I'm just looking for what people know about it coming out and why or why it may not come out.

RpTheHotrod
07-28-2005, 04:41 PM
Last time I checked, which was 3 months ago, LucasArts stated that there are currently no plans for any more Jedi Knight series games.

razorace
07-28-2005, 05:28 PM
That doesn't mean that they won't happen, they just aren't planned in the immediate future. Like it was after MotS.

Neverhoodian
07-28-2005, 10:48 PM
With Lucasart's announcement that some games like Empire at War are being delayed so as not to flood the market with Star Wars games, I think we're in for another dry spell like razorace said. They might make a new JK game in the future, or they might not. I don't think anyone really knows at this point.

riceplant
07-29-2005, 05:19 AM
I don't suppose there are enough of us here at LF to change their mind. There are 90 647 members across the whole of LF, but I don't know how many are active in the Jedi Knight area. Do you think we should start a poll? And this thread's title is really misleading, by the way. Got my hopes up for a minute.

Weirdbeard
07-29-2005, 08:34 AM
LOL!! Sorry to get your hopes up Rice. Let me see if I can improve upon the title a bit.

A poll might be cool......

Crow_Nest
07-29-2005, 09:31 AM
Even if there was a next JK game, LC wouldnt be making plans for it for the next few years.....

But hopefully there would be one. :)

Weirdbeard
07-29-2005, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by |GG|Crow_Nest
Even if there was a next JK game, LC wouldnt be making plans for it for the next few years.....

But hopefully there would be one. :)

Why do you say that?

Crow_Nest
07-29-2005, 09:39 AM
That LC wouldnt make plans until a few years? Because they already dont have any plans for a new JK game, and i said there might be a new JK game in future because the Jedi Knight series is popular among the gamer fans, im sure LC would want to make more money from them

DarkStarMojo
07-29-2005, 01:17 PM
Considering JK games have always been succesful, I think another game is a good possibility, it's just not a priority right now what with games like KotoR, Galaxies, and Battlefront. I, personally, haven't been able to locate any rumors (not for lack of trying, though) but as soon as something comes up you're likely going to hear about it either in these forums or in a JediKnight-related website such as JediKnight.net.

Amidala from Chop Shop
07-30-2005, 10:55 AM
I got this email directly from LucasArts on May 4, 2005:

At this time, we have no plans for another Jedi Knight game but we will pass along your feedback to our Production department.

Thank you,
LucasArts Public Relations

Weirdbeard
07-31-2005, 02:18 PM
I got this email directly from LucasArts on May 4, 2005:

Could you please post the email address you sent that to? I would like to send one also, expressing my hopes for a new JK game.

Sabretooth
07-31-2005, 11:29 PM
I say we bombard them with e-mails and force them into getting what we want!

But in any case, I had heard of rumours that JKA is the last JK game...

Don't ask me where I heard those.

Amidala from Chop Shop
08-01-2005, 03:23 AM
Could you please post the email address you sent that to? I would like to send one also, expressing my hopes for a new JK game.

I'm afraid that if I did this would happen...

I say we bombard them with e-mails and force them into getting what we want!


I went to Star Wars Celebration III in April and LucasArts had a booth there. They were touting Battlefront II and the Episode III game, but I don't remember seeing much about anything else, not even Republic Commando, Empires at War, Galaxies, etc. I talked to a couple of LucasArts people there about the problems (as I saw it) with the JK series, and they seemed pretty interested (or at least acted interested). They asked me to put it in writing and email it, so that's what I did, and that's the response they sent me.

Obi_Kwiet
08-01-2005, 03:26 PM
I say we bombard them with e-mails and force them into getting what we want!



Captain, the Star Destroyers are in place for orbital e-mail bombardment!

fuzzyfreaker
08-01-2005, 08:13 PM
Well, as a game of this type hasn't come out since JKA, unless you count the saber dueling in EpIII i'd expect that they may make and JK for the next-gen consoles and one for PC as well. JK on Unreal 3... ahhhh.

Sabretooth
08-02-2005, 12:27 AM
JK on Unreal 3... ahhhh.

Not likely - Unreal's greatest Rival, Quake is being developed by Raven. They'll get U3 easily? Not likely.
But still...
*floats into the world of dreams*

VaderR
08-02-2005, 11:49 AM
Does Lucas Arts have this in the developers hands yet or?
Loved Jedi Outcast and Academy so....what's next? Taken into account the great ideas they should implement these into the next series along with a new graphic engine, but which do you guys think would make for the best engine?

VaderR

Amidala from Chop Shop
08-02-2005, 02:36 PM
I got this email directly from LucasArts on May 4, 2005:

At this time, we have no plans for another Jedi Knight game but we will pass along your feedback to our Production department.

Thank you,
LucasArts Public Relations

54321

DruggedSith
08-02-2005, 03:23 PM
:lightning Strike me down with your Jedi weapon....because there are no guns in JKA

•-BLaCKouT-•
08-02-2005, 03:29 PM
:lightning Strike me down with your Jedi weapon....because there are no guns in JKA

:p that's sig material...

B.

Sabretooth
08-03-2005, 11:19 AM
This has been done a million times already. Hey, how about one of you mods make a thread, lock it, sticky it and write in it:

LUCASARTS HAS NOT TOLD US OF ANY DEVELOPMENT OF JEDI KNIGHT 4. NO THREADS CONCERNING THIS MATTER WILL BE TOLERATED.

shukrallah
08-03-2005, 11:26 AM
Yeah, we really are getting like 5 or more of these threads a month. The fact is, we probably won't get another JK game for a while. It goes in cycles:

Jedi Knight
MotS (expansion)

5 years go by

Jedi Outcast
Jedi Academy (sort of an expansion)

5 years go by

New JK.

DarthMuffin
08-03-2005, 11:39 AM
Since Battlefront II will allow people to play as Jedi, I think we'll have to wait for quite some time; LucasArts will technically release a "Jedi shooter" next november, so I suppose they'll try out different genres before going back to Jedi Knight.

And yeah, there should definitely be a sticky about that.

Kurgan
08-03-2005, 12:31 PM
Is Lucas Arts planning on Jedi knight 3?

Not until the releases of Dark Forces III and Mysteries of the Sith II!

Seriously though, no, no plans for a new JK series game. This gets asked every so often (ex: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=149229)but the answer has always been the same. Officially there are no plans and there aren't any rumors, only wishful thinking, unfortunately.

But on the upside, this means all you JK2 and JA fans can keep working on your mods and keep supporting your community if you wish, without the "threat" of a 'better jedi game' stealing all your attention.

Had they started a hypothetical JK4 immediately after JA was released, they could be done with it by now I would think, if they used the Q3 engine or Unreal tech. Then again look how long it took them to do a game like Republic Commando. It really depends on who does it and their experience and LucasArts's time table. It seems Raven is busy with QuakeIV. But if Q4 is a success and the Doom3 engine is seen as popular and viable.. it'd take a few years to develop it at least. JA came so quickly because it was based on the codebase Raven had already established with Jedi Outcast.

DruggedSith
08-03-2005, 02:57 PM
Seeing a new JK game (a longshot at this point but who nows what the years will bring as more and more shooters hit the market) built on a next gen engine would be sweet as long as they can accomodate up to 16 player servers.

I would only hope that LucasArts gives another studio other than Raven the license to develop it.

Reprehence
08-08-2005, 01:56 PM
This is a little depressing. There aren't any SW games coming out that I'm particularly interested in. Battlefront is okay - fun to play for a while, but there are no characters - no story line. I gets old fast. I suspect the same with Empire. What I liked about the JK series (and the KotOR series - though I prefer action based combat) were the story and character combined with excellent gameplay. In short - a good single player experience. Even Republic Commando had some of that. The Episode III game had some pretty cool saber combat options - but let's face it - as a game it was very weak. Co-op was a good idea, but badley implemented. Since KotOR II - the only game I've liked was Lego Star Wars - and it looks like that will be the only one I'll like for a while. Was RotS the end of story telling for LucasArts?

DarkStarMojo
08-08-2005, 02:18 PM
Honestly, I don't remember seeing a story-based game since KOTORII but I haven't played Republic Commando yet so I can't comment on that. Still, with Empires and Battlefront II being the focus right now, it certainly seems Star Wars games are becoming more about "It's Star Wars BUY IT!!!" than "buy it because it has a good story and it's a good game." Just my 2 cents.

riceplant
08-08-2005, 07:00 PM
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=150205
Um, why are you linking to this thread from within this thread? Is it to keep simple people occupied in the absence of JK4? ;)

Amidala from Chop Shop
08-08-2005, 07:55 PM
VaderR's post was originally a separate thread about the same topic. I posted that link to show him we had just covered that question. Some moderator or admin combined the two threads into one after I posted that. But I'll go back and edit out the link if it confuses you ;)

Saber Obi-Wan
08-17-2005, 04:42 PM
I am completely shocked that no one has discovered the pattern to the Jedi Knight Series. ALL OF THEM USE A QUAKE ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!! DF1 used modified Doom engine DF2:JK used Modified Quake 1 or Quake 2 engine I beleive. JO and JA used the Quake 3 engine. I am speculating that The next installment will use Quake 4 Engine, how hard is it for people to see? That is why there are no plans yet. The Engine isn't complete and they are unsure what they are going to implenment and what kind of story to write. For Some odd reason I have never seen anyone speak about Quake and JK together which has seemed odd for me. So I decided to post this. I know its still speculation, but I know there will be another game at least one similar to the Jedi Knight series coming to PC's as well as Next-Gen Consoles :) by 2007 or 2008.

El Sitherino
08-17-2005, 07:36 PM
Wow, thank you Captain Obvious. What would we ever do without your wise and noble guidance? Surely we'd all have died a terrible death years ago without you.

Tyrion
08-17-2005, 08:26 PM
I am completely shocked that no one has discovered the pattern to the Jedi Knight Series. ALL OF THEM USE A QUAKE ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!! DF1 used modified Doom engine DF2:JK used Modified Quake 1 or Quake 2 engine I beleive. JO and JA used the Quake 3 engine. I am speculating that The next installment will use Quake 4 Engine, how hard is it for people to see? That is why there are no plans yet. The Engine isn't complete and they are unsure what they are going to implenment and what kind of story to write. For Some odd reason I have never seen anyone speak about Quake and JK together which has seemed odd for me. So I decided to post this. I know its still speculation, but I know there will be another game at least one similar to the Jedi Knight series coming to PC's as well as Next-Gen Consoles :) by 2007 or 2008.

I think Quake 4 is using the Doom 3 engine however, so your prediction seems a little flaky. As well, Quake 4 is being developed by Raven, who also makes the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. So they're too busy right now to do another project.

And don't mind Insane Sith. He's just sad at the fact his soul died a long time ago. Isn't that right, Sithy?

DarkStarMojo
08-17-2005, 09:24 PM
Yes, Quake IV is using a modified Doom 3 engine. The main flaw with this pattern (others have made similar conclusions in other threads, by the way) is that while the DF and JK engines were similar to the Doom and Quake 2 engines they were not the same. Both were developed in-house by LucasArts. The Dark Forces engine was called the Jedi Engine and Jedi Knight's was called the Sith Engine. While it is possible for a new JK game to use a modified Doom 3 (Quake IV) engine, that's yet to be seen.

Oh, I'm sure InsaneSith has a soul. He's just... well... an Insane Sith. :) :giggle1: Yeah. I know. My jokes are lame. Pay no attention to my uncontrollable silliness. I mean nothing by it.

M@nd@lori@n
08-17-2005, 10:43 PM
Does Lucas Arts have this in the developers hands yet or?
Loved Jedi Outcast and Academy so....what's next? Taken into account the great ideas they should implement these into the next series along with a new graphic engine, but which do you guys think would make for the best engine?

VaderR

I think the unreal engine,it plays well over the net.

acdcfanbill
08-17-2005, 11:15 PM
I am completely shocked that no one has discovered the pattern to the Jedi Knight Series. ALL OF THEM USE A QUAKE ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!! DF1 used modified Doom engine DF2:JK used Modified Quake 1 or Quake 2 engine I beleive. JO and JA used the Quake 3 engine. I am speculating that The next installment will use Quake 4 Engine, how hard is it for people to see? That is why there are no plans yet. The Engine isn't complete and they are unsure what they are going to implenment and what kind of story to write. For Some odd reason I have never seen anyone speak about Quake and JK together which has seemed odd for me. So I decided to post this. I know its still speculation, but I know there will be another game at least one similar to the Jedi Knight series coming to PC's as well as Next-Gen Consoles :) by 2007 or 2008.

firstly, Dark Forces and Dark Forces 2 didnt use an engine that was in any way remotely related to any of id's engines. secondly, the main reason that jk2/ja used q3 engine was because 1) Raven the developer was very familiar with id tech as they had been building games off id engines since the early ninties. and 2) Raven had adapted Q3A engine for use in Sof2 (sof used q2 engine incidentally) and it was very easy for them to move most of the important parts of the engine over to the JK2 project and leave off some of their unneeded aditions like the ghoul2 dismemberment system and such.

that said, the possibility of the next Jedi Knight game using a id based engine depends a lot on who is developing it i think. if it is developed by Raven or a company that uses id engines, it will most likely be id based, if not, it might be unreal, crytek, lith, or proprietary, who knows.

Nokill
08-19-2005, 05:01 AM
look on some of the othere jk4 rumor treaths i have been telling this to long stop making so many topics ow and it also says when the new game comes :P

FinnBoy
08-20-2005, 02:48 AM
It would be great to have new Jedi Knight game. Well it must become better than these earlier parts. I dont have JA, but I would buy it if I could find one. They should like take JO Multiplayer n JA Singleplayer, mx em together n create something new n good with that.

Kurgan
08-20-2005, 05:31 AM
WARNING: Nitpicking ahead!

I am completely shocked that no one has discovered the pattern to the Jedi Knight Series. ALL OF THEM USE A QUAKE ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!! DF1 used modified Doom engine DF2:JK used Modified Quake 1 or Quake 2 engine I beleive.

I'm afraid not. Dark Forces used it's own engine (Jedi), JK1 and MotS used a custom engine called "Sith." Only JK2 and JA use a modified Quake3 engine.
Every other game in the series has used an engine created in-house by LucasArts (there was a rumor at one time that LA decompiled Doom's code in order to see how to make Dark Forces, but that was never proven and probably never will be).

What I think you meant to say is that Raven Software doesn't create their own engines, they use iD software liscensed engines for their FPS (and rare non-FPSes like Heretic II) games.

JO and JA used the Quake 3 engine. I am speculating that The next installment will use Quake 4 Engine, how hard is it for people to see?

Quake4 isn't an engine. Q4 uses Doom3. I would expect Raven to use an iD Software engine for their next FPS, but we have no guarentee that Raven would be doing the next JK game (if it ever happens). For all we know, LucasArts might decide to do such a game on Unreal tech with a brand new group. We can only guess at this point.

In any case, regardless of who makes it, it would take years to develope, since it would likely either be on a brand new engine or an engine that hasn't had a Jedi game on it yet (the only commercially liscensed engine that's had a Jedi game on it so far has been Quake3).

That is why there are no plans yet. The Engine isn't complete and they are unsure what they are going to implenment and what kind of story to write. For Some odd reason I have never seen anyone speak about Quake and JK together which has seemed odd for me. So I decided to post this. I know its still speculation, but I know there will be another game at least one similar to the Jedi Knight series coming to PC's as well as Next-Gen Consoles :) by 2007 or 2008.

If it was in development we'd at least have heard a rumor about it by now. At this point any "news" of JK4 is as legit as any news of Republic Commando 2. In other words: fan speculation, not facts.

Back in the good ol' days people talked about Quake2 vs. JK to the point that there was a debate forum (no connection to JediKnight.net, which was long before LucasForums ever existed) devoted specifically to the subject. Evil Ash, Nax, myself, Randy Flagg and a few others participated, and had some lively discussions. ;) One guy even did a research paper on it for his school and showed it to us. At the time MotS was coming out Q2 was the media favorite FPS, even though it seemed like the only thing revolutionary about it at the time was the graphics (though admittedly the lack of dedicated servers did hurt JK/MotS which otherwise felt the superior game to us).

Little did we forsee way back in 1998 that LucasArts would get a third party company (Raven Software) and a liscensed engine (iD Software) to do the next Jedi game, much less it being any good! ;) Back then LucasArts wouldn't dream of such a thing.

2007-8? To coincide with the theatrical release of the Star Wars trilogy in 3-D and the rumored release of the OT boxed set (and maybe the PT boxed set too while they're at it) on next generation format (HD-DVD or BluRay)? Perhaps. Though I would hate to think of a JK game suffering from "Battlefront syndrome." :P

Speculate all you want, that's the purpose of these threads. No news is good news I guess. If the new game is as good or better than JK2/JA on a better engine I'm all for it. I just hope the "honorz codez" and abusive mods are purged from everyone's systems by then. ;P

•-BLaCKouT-•
08-20-2005, 11:54 AM
I just hope the "honorz codez" and abusive mods are purged from everyone's systems by then. ;P
Kurgan, as long as guns exist, there will always be gun-crime. As long as drugs and medication exist, there will always be substance-abuse / misuse.

Hoping for the honorz kiddies to stop playing up is like hoping all the morons in the world will get bored of the internet and move on to something else ;) Ain't gonna happen is it? :p

But yeah, we shouldn't stop hoping.

:) B.

Neon
08-20-2005, 05:29 PM
yeah I keep hoping for this new JK.
I think I will become the first person on earth who made a real force jump when I hear that they are making a new Jedi Knight game :)

riceplant
08-20-2005, 06:52 PM
Totally different to Jedi Knight, but how's this sound: Jedi game on Legacy of Kain: Defiance engine?

Kurgan
08-20-2005, 07:27 PM
Well I mean not every game has them (or do they), so it might be possible for a psychological shift. The other possibility is that they don't allow code editing (no SDK release). And the final possibility is that they make some legal clause in the contract that you can't make abusive admin mods (but then they'd have to police it, which would cost time and money, so probably not).

Darth Kaan
08-21-2005, 01:59 PM
I remember shortly after the release of the 1.04 patch for JO, the belief was the same. Then JA sprang out of nowhere to surprise us all.

ACROBAT
08-21-2005, 08:38 PM
some of my clan leaders in jka right now have said they all heard jk4 for next fall. thusn us a rumor nothing more. when i say rumor i really mean rumor lol.

Kurgan
08-21-2005, 08:51 PM
Where did they hear this "rumor"?

ACROBAT
08-21-2005, 11:55 PM
that's why i said "rumor". but it's a systemic rumor in the jka community. i have no idea who started it or if it actually came from a source

TK-8252
08-22-2005, 04:02 AM
Whoever made it up is dead wrong.

ACROBAT
08-22-2005, 09:26 PM
why are you so sure. I know it's a rumor, but why do you know for sure?

TK-8252
08-22-2005, 09:56 PM
why are you so sure. I know it's a rumor, but why do you know for sure?

Did you read the thread?

El Sitherino
08-22-2005, 10:21 PM
why are you so sure. I know it's a rumor, but why do you know for sure?
Considering nothing has even been announced, there's no way it'll be released in this year.

ACROBAT
08-23-2005, 12:06 AM
Y but i remember hearing jka rumors but no annoucment. then all a sudden there were beta version all over the intrernet for free\illegal download. Then like a month later it was on shelves. The game jsut came out no where. I rememeber MOTS was the same wasy. I heard some random rumors in servers and on forums but all form without a course or most of the time people didn't even know who the person who they heard it from got it form the person they heard it from. Then, suddenly like it jsut appeared.

I'm not sayin i belive the rumors, but they are out there.

El Sitherino
08-23-2005, 12:10 AM
JA was announced almost a year before release. MoTS months before release as well.

RpTheHotrod
08-23-2005, 08:18 AM
I knew Jedi Academy was being released because I read a whole article about it's "future release" in PC Gamer :p

CortoCG
08-23-2005, 03:37 PM
Totally different to Jedi Knight, but how's this sound: Jedi game on Legacy of Kain: Defiance engine?

Completely surreal.

DruggedSith
08-23-2005, 04:21 PM
Lucasarts would never miss an opportunity to overhype any of their crappy titles in advance.

riceplant
08-23-2005, 06:23 PM
Completely surreal.
Is that in a good or a bad way? I was thinking, you throw people around with TK like the force, and fight with a sword. Addition of a few more force powers, and I think it would fit.

Obi_Kwiet
08-24-2005, 12:19 PM
Yay for the Sith 2 engine!

CortoCG
08-24-2005, 01:31 PM
Is that in a good or a bad way? I was thinking, you throw people around with TK like the force, and fight with a sword. Addition of a few more force powers, and I think it would fit.

No way Crystal Dynamics is licensing that engine.

Yay for the Sith 2 engine!

What's that?

Neon
08-24-2005, 05:28 PM
Isn't Jedi Knight the most popular lucasarts game serie?

CortoCG
08-24-2005, 05:39 PM
Statistically speaking, maybe. But it's becoming rather dull. I think Battlefront (plus sequel) and Galaxies will concentrate all the Star Wars fans in the near future. The Jedi Knight community is a dying community.

riceplant
08-24-2005, 06:34 PM
But would it be if they released JKIV?

Neon
08-25-2005, 04:14 AM
yeah, they still need a saber game. battlefront isn't really for sabers, not even battlefront 2. Only one can be a jedi/sith. And galaxies is montly pay.
I don't really think jedi knight is dying. :s

El Sitherino
08-25-2005, 04:30 AM
Jedi Knight is hardly dying. And Galaxies and Battlefront themselves are on the verge of dying.

acdcfanbill
08-25-2005, 10:09 AM
imho, battlefront was hardly a puff in the wind. I knew tons of people who were ready to put up competition servers, and have huge matches. It would have been comparible to bf1942, but mismanagement and lack of proper admin support, and useful dedicated servers, kind of squashed it :(
as for battlefront 2, i have no idea if it will gather the same pre-release support, or if pandemic will handle post-release better, perhaps it will become a bigger game.

this said, galaxies garners a totally different type of player than battlefront/jk series, so i think the jk series is easily the most popular action/fps type of star wars game, and could support a new game if it was done properly :)

CortoCG
08-25-2005, 10:33 AM
If they make a new JK game with the Unreal or the Source Engine it would be a great step forward for the series. Both engines have so much more support and are easy to mod. Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast are both obsolete dying pieces of junk.

riceplant
08-25-2005, 01:15 PM
How can anything be easier to mod than Quake? It uses plain-text, JPGs and standard zips! All standard formats. And how is UnrealEd ever easier to use than Radiant? First time I used it, it took me half an hour just to figure out how to manipulate brushes! This is supposed to be easier than Radiant, huh?

CortoCG
08-25-2005, 02:11 PM
UnrealEd is way more powerful than Radiant. At least there's one feature that kicks Radiant's ass all over the place: you can practically model the whole map in 3dsmax, XSI Mod Tool o Maya PLE and import it into a level space.

Other features that makes UnrealEd better than Radiant:
- You don't need to spend an hour compiling to preview how your map is really looking (the editor is wysiwyg)
- You can import, compress and make your shader file right in the editor (no need for lame MFC shader editors or text editing)
- You can import static meshes from your favorite 3d suite and use them not only as props, but also a level geometry (and the triangle throughput of the unreal engine is extremely fast).
- You practically can manage every asset of you mod or even the original game's from UnrealEd.
- Epic has released an amazing IDE specically developed for UnrealScript, which give programmers all the power and flexibility they need to code their mods.

Rounding up, I cannot enumerate all the advantages of the Unreal Engine over any version of the Quake 3 Engine since they are too many. But the most important thing is that unreal editing is extensively well documented by the developers themselves, so you don't have to figure eveything out like we had to do with JO or JA.

Weirdbeard
08-25-2005, 04:53 PM
I guess there's just no avoiding a topic like this turning into a "I haven't heard anything, but it would be cool if..........." thread.

Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast are both obsolete dying pieces of junk.

Maybe, but I still love Jedi Academy. I just hope they make a new one before people completely stop playing JA.

CortoCG
08-25-2005, 09:03 PM
I also hope they make another one with a longer lasting and more powerful engine.

acdcfanbill
08-26-2005, 10:54 AM
if unreal had strafejumping i'd be all over it :p

riceplant
08-26-2005, 10:58 AM
Maybe it's just me, then, because I find UnrealEd impossible, and Radiant really quite simple to use.

DruggedSith
08-27-2005, 09:57 PM
Jedi Knight is hardly dying. And Galaxies and Battlefront themselves are on the verge of dying.

Both JK titles are on life support from a competitive standpoint. If you are an honor saberist you will have more time to enjoy the game you helped destroy but even that 'community' has taken a hit in recent months.

Galaxies is one of the top MMO's out there (dont ask me why, it blows) but there are more than enough Star Wars fans to keep it afloat for, well, forever.
There are limitations (you actually have to work hard to be a Jedi and you can still be killed) and guns in it so I know it is a turn off for most JK fans.

Battlefront showed promise but was poorly executed and with no rules and no sabers it didnt catch on with the JK crowd. Battlefront 2 should deliver on what the original did not....

TK-8252
08-27-2005, 09:59 PM
Battlefront 2 should deliver on what the original did not....

Sadly, it won't. It's basically just the original Battlefront with some new maps and characters and extra frills, that's it. Still the same crappy arcade engine, graphics, physics, etc.

shukrallah
08-27-2005, 11:07 PM
imho, battlefront was hardly a puff in the wind. I knew tons of people who were ready to put up competition servers, and have huge matches. It would have been comparible to bf1942, but mismanagement and lack of proper admin support, and useful dedicated servers, kind of squashed it

Battlefront dies due to little admin support, JKA dies because of too much!

Other features that makes UnrealEd better than Radiant:
- You don't need to spend an hour compiling to preview how your map is really looking (the editor is wysiwyg)

Doesn't take an hour to compile. I can set a compile for about 5 minutes or so.

- You can import, compress and make your shader file right in the editor (no need for lame MFC shader editors or text editing)

Easy Gen makes shaders, I know its not GTK, but hey, who cares in the long run? So what if you have to load up the shader editor?

- You can import static meshes from your favorite 3d suite and use them not only as props, but also a level geometry (and the triangle throughput of the unreal engine is extremely fast).

Hmmm, MD3s?

- Epic has released an amazing IDE specically developed for UnrealScript, which give programmers all the power and flexibility they need to code their mods.

BehavEd scripts for SP. And to be honest, with the way "coding" in the MP community has gone, its a good thing Raven didn't make it easy. You know how many other admin mods we would have right now. Every clan would have a different one, and would probably compete in mod making for the most power (I CAN SLAP U FURTHER!!!!!111 LOLZ)

I'll stop being a GTK Radiant fanboy now, lol.

I also hope they make another one with a longer lasting and more powerful engine.


Powerful I can understand... the engine has its weak points. But longer lasting? It started in like 1999, and now its 2005 and still in use. There won't be anymore Q3 based games, but whatever.



EDIT: Just thought of something. Im noticing a pattern, LucasArts (or a third party) makes a game, then they throw out a sequal in a matter of months by using the same engine, character models, textures, etc. For example: JK2 -> JKA. KOTOR -> KOTOR2 -> KOTOR 3 (?) BattleFront -> BattleFront 2.

See the trend, just like EA games. *cringes* Unfortunatly its all about the profit (well, it always has been, but more so now than before)

DruggedSith
08-28-2005, 10:57 AM
Sadly, it won't. It's basically just the original Battlefront with some new maps and characters and extra frills, that's it. Still the same crappy arcade engine, graphics, physics, etc.

I have my doubts so I said 'should'. You hit it on the head: Its a crappy console port.

Prime
08-28-2005, 01:04 PM
Isn't Jedi Knight the most popular lucasarts game serie?Could be, but I would suspect that the X-Wing/Tie Fighter series would give it a run for its money...

riceplant
08-28-2005, 01:07 PM
I wouldn't care that much if it was only the JA engine modified some more, although it would be much cooler if it was on a next-gen engine with a proper physics engine and the like.

Neon
08-28-2005, 03:35 PM
Who knows.

DarkMe
09-05-2005, 04:58 AM
Isn't Jedi Knight the most popular lucasarts game serie?
:tsk:I think not!! JK is a great series and I love playing it I still do...But there is also K.O.T.O.R I&II (Knights Of The Old Republic) and that is a very very VERY Good Serie the story's of those games are much better than in the JK game and much better grafics etc etc.... And you don't have to pay for it like Galaxies.

riceplant
09-05-2005, 09:23 AM
Well, I've never seen it written like that (it's KotOR), but surely only a fool would compare it to Jedi Knight, the gaming styles are so completely different, and it doesn't even have multiplayer. As for the stories, even battlefront had a better story than JA, but no way is KotOR better than JO, storywise.

DarkStarMojo
09-05-2005, 02:58 PM
Riceplant said:

Maybe it's just me, then, because I find UnrealEd impossible, and Radiant really quite simple to use.

Radient is easier to learn the basics but UnrealEd has much better support for us modders, as CortoCG described. If you're interested in getting a better handle on the editor, might I suggest you visit http://www.planetunreal.com/architectonic/first_level.html It's a really good tutorial on how to use UnrealEd. And for the really eager there are books as well that cover literally every step of the level design process, including models and skins.

even battlefront had a better story than JA, but no way is KotOR better than JO, storywise.

I didn't think battlefront had a story. :lol: The problem with KotoR's story: too many historical inacuracies, though I would argue JK has a better story than JO.

yrthwyndandfyre
09-05-2005, 04:55 PM
Has anybody ever told you guys that you're wound 'way too tight? They're video games.

DarkStarMojo
09-05-2005, 06:50 PM
It was the "KotoR has too many historical inaccuracies," part, wasn't it? :)

No, I think discussing something as relatively unimportant as a new Jedi Knight game (unimportant in the grand scheme of things, at least ;) ) helps us unwind, especially with so much to worry about in the rest of the world.

shukrallah
09-05-2005, 07:08 PM
KOTOR was cool and stuff, and I really liked the story. Certain graphical things bugged me, like seeing the same talking animations over and over and over again. And then how you would see that the reused the same alien sounds... over and over and over again. And then, how they reused the same models over and over and over again. :-\

But other than that, I liked the story, for the most part the graphics, saber anims were amazing. But I like the JK series better because you can actually control the battles.

DarkMe
09-06-2005, 02:24 AM
that's because it's a RPG

JDKnite188
09-07-2005, 12:15 PM
I haven't been here since early June!

These threads come every few months and provide the same results. Here is what you people should know:

NO CONCRETE RUMORS EXIST ABOUT THE NEXT JK/DF GAME.

Yes, people can wish it to come, but it shouldn't be pursued yet.

As for the next JK game, I don't really care anymore. JK:DF2 (may as well include MotS too) was the best of the series. JO and JA sent the series downhill. Raven did not even try to continue the great qualities of the original. SW fps's simply cannot compete with other mainstream FPS's anymore. Too bad, LEC. Good ideas but horrible implementations. As Yoda might say, "Finished, you are. No more shall you prosper."

For those who still have a copy of JK or even remember it, check out Sith2 (http://forums.massassi.net/vb3/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=30&page=1&pp=40&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=30) , an enhancment project that is adding high-detailed assets and engine upgrades to the original award-winning title.

DarkStarMojo
09-07-2005, 03:40 PM
Or our JK Mod: http://shamusworld.gotdns.org/df2mod/index.html.

(I know, I know. :rolleyes: It's not much to look at... yet...)

Hey, that Sith2 thing is pretty cool but I'm always weary about upgrading the original source engine, since no matter how much you improve, there are always rather noticable limitations. We'll see, though.

yrthwyndandfyre
09-07-2005, 09:08 PM
It was the "KotoR has too many historical inaccuracies," part, wasn't it? :)
Not that - never played KoToR, so I wouldn't know. Just the importance people seem to place on details. I have a friend who ranks games on how good the story is and how 'linear' the play is. Me? I rank them on how much fun they are. Sokoban was fun. No story line. Linear play. And a total gas.

Consider Star Trek: Everybody argues about inertial dampers and if they could work, when the obvious question is why they work for an half-second leap to lightspeed, but not for disruptor fire, which can throw people all over the bridge. Same-same with these games. Spend less time analysing, more time figuring out how to have more fun, and ignore the inconsistencies.

I don't keep track of the 'storyline', and I couldn't possibly care less about it. Inevitably, there is one best path through the game, regardless of how many options you have, and you'll find it eventually. My character is a Jedi, and my sole interest is how to be a truly great one. I'm all over how to win my battles with ever more extravagant and spectacular moves. If I can charge into a room full of enemies, and through a flurry of spectacular stunts drop all of them and sheath my sabre before the first headless corpse sinks to the ground, then I've had fun - I've done something highly unlikely and incredible. In the latter stages of the game where I'm nurse-maiding apprentices, I try to let them do most of the fighting, and still keep all of them alive. The greatest measure of a master's skill is how little he/she has to interfere and still keep their students. That's fun.

It's not about the challenges that the story brings to you. It's about the challenges you can bring to *yourself* through the story.

shukrallah
09-07-2005, 09:47 PM
Well, I don't like fighting for nothing. Like in JK2- We though Jan was killed... so I had a reason to hunt down Desann and Tavion. In JKA, Well... yeah, cause sort of wasn't there untill you wanted to kick Rosh's butt when you find out what he did... but for the most part you really had no reason to attack the dudes (no personal reason anyways)

DarkStarMojo
09-07-2005, 11:36 PM
It was only a joke... :giggle1:

Actually, I tend to enjoy a balance of the two. Where the story is an integral part of the game, I prefer the major details to be consistent, but it doesn't bother me a whole lot if a few minor, unimportant things are messed up. Nothing can be perfect, after all. Now, where the story is mearly an excuse to blow things up, I have no objections whatsoever. I loved the Unreal Tournament series and that takes a lot of liberties from the universe created in the first Unreal. But it's fun, so what difference does it make if it totally lacks any semblance of a story? I still enjoyed the first three immensely.

It's not about the challenges that the story brings to you. It's about the challenges you can bring to *yourself* through the story.

Very well put. I never thought of it that way.

Kurgan
09-08-2005, 09:27 AM
Statistically speaking, maybe. But it's becoming rather dull. I think Battlefront (plus sequel) and Galaxies will concentrate all the Star Wars fans in the near future. The Jedi Knight community is a dying community.


Compared to JK2/JA, the SWBF community is pretty small. I think there were never more than 150 SWBF servers (and most with less than 10 people) in the first few months I played it, and checking again many months later.

JK2/JA each have between 500 and 1000 servers each, and while they both have many empty servers, the total players far outweighs any SWBF players.

SWBF isn't quite as pathetic as Republic Commando (with it's 15 servers), but still. I don't know if it's "dying" per se, but I'm sure if SWBF2 is "the game they intended to make in the first place" people will have little reason to play SWBF after it comes out. They are even including some of the same old maps (but not only, only a handful appear to cross over... so I wonder if people will just port over the old maps). It appears the SWBF2 will be more of an "upgrade" than a true sequel, even though it's being marketed as a sequel. Basically they want to give you the Episode III hype and fix the old game, plus slap on some bonus features like the Jedi and space battles, stuff that were only hinted at and done poorly in the first game.

SWBF2 will get massive hype, but without the game getting great reviews (I'm sure it will, just because of all the Star Wars hype) and serious improvement over the past incarnation, it won't get the community that SWBF ought to have had.

Galaxies is a whole nother ballgame. MMORPG's don't appeal to everyone, but by their very nature have tens or hundreds of thousands of players. They have thousands of addicted players paying every month to play. They're in a category all their own. But FPS action gamers don't find much in there to their liking. Sure in Galaxies you can do ship fighting if you buy the expansion, but honestly, you're in an RPG already, this is just one facet of the game experience. Most of your time is spent wandering around, chatting and wasting time, buying/trading items and killing the same boring enemies over and over again. All MMORPG's are that way. I guess that's popular.

So yeah, I'd say MMORPG's will always be "more popular" but they're almost in a world by themselves, compared to other online capable games.

Kurgan
09-08-2005, 09:32 AM
If they make a new JK game with the Unreal or the Source Engine it would be a great step forward for the series. Both engines have so much more support and are easy to mod. Jedi Academy and Jedi Outcast are both obsolete dying pieces of junk.

Perhaps, but until another game comes out that does all of what these games do, but better (on PC with online play), they won't completely go away.

And the series provides enough variety that if say we had a "pure Jedi" (with only sabers and force and duels) game came out, there would still be warrant to play it.

Prime
09-08-2005, 03:56 PM
KOTOR was cool and stuff, and I really liked the story. Certain graphical things bugged me, like seeing the same talking animations over and over and over again. And then how you would see that the reused the same alien sounds... over and over and over again. And then, how they reused the same models over and over and over again. :-\True, but on the otherhand, at least there were people in the galaxy. In JO and JA, it's like you and the Imeprials are the only people in existence. :)

shukrallah
09-08-2005, 03:56 PM
But Galaxys is updated every 6 months... it seems.

Kurgan
09-09-2005, 08:09 AM
Not surprising when they fit the typical MMORPG model. They have tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands, I haven't checked the actual stats for SWG but if it's popular that wouldn't be surprising) of people, who PAY EVERY MONTH to play. So with that kind of revenue, they can afford to release multiple expansions AND continually update the game. Plus since it's "multiplayer only" they have greater incentive to tinker with things (which isn't all good, people always get upset when things are changed in the game that they thought were fine or cool before, or the changes don't go far enough to their satisfaction... in RPG's).

As I said, MMORPG's aren't for everyone. All things being equal, continual updates and tens/hundreds of thousands of players would seem to be seriously in SWG's favor over and above all other Star Wars games, but keep in mind the shortcomings and differences in the model and atmosphere. If it were simply superior, nobody would ever play any of these other games. But even if you have MILLIONS of people playing KOTOR2, you'd "never know it" because it's a single player game, and I'd be a far harder game to just tinker with or release updates to. All that stuff has to be scripted, whereas in a MMORPG, the players themselves provide most of the entertainment. The rest is just generic hack'n'slash, wandering around and buying/trading items. No story, no character development really.

The best games are the ones that are hardest to add to, because they already have so much you can't top it and/or you'd have to rewrite everything to make it a worthwhile change. Gamers get mad if you change something for no reason in the default mode (that's why mods can get away with it, they're not supported by the company and you can choose not to use them).

DruggedSith
09-09-2005, 06:08 PM
It appears the SWBF2 will be more of an "upgrade" than a true sequel, even though it's being marketed as a sequel.

The same thing with the JK series. Academy was little more than an expansion pack to Outcast that was marketed as a full title. $50, server list problems right out of the gate and one crappy patch. If history is any indication.......lets just say I wont be rushing to my local game store to by another overhyped SW game.

Galaxies is awful. Im a long time FPS player finding a little entertainment with World of Warcraft but there are almost no redeeming qualities about most MMO's and SWG tops that list. It will always have a great following thanks to those people who think all things Star Wars are great ("Phantom menace smokes braveheart!!!1!!" and has little to do with how great the game is by itself.

When you grow up dreaming of living in a galaxy far far away and being a Jedi, a shoddy online universe delivering something towards that end seems better than it actually is.

There are not too many non-star wars fans hyping the merits of SWG. Ive tried it. Twice. Its terrible.

Darth Kaan
09-10-2005, 01:44 PM
JA came out at a time when most left in the JO community swore no more "Jedi" games were coming anytime soon. Some claimed to have friends at Lucas Arts and Raven and were in contaxt with them via email, yadda, yadda. When JA came out it was a surprise to everyone and we all found out Raven had been working on it since a few days after JO's release. If LA is going to release another game, they are not obligated to say so one way or the other.

90SK
09-10-2005, 02:44 PM
^^^
If that’s so, it won't be out for a while. I'm sure that with all the complaints they've gotten about an "expensive patch", they'll be making the game much more unique than the last two (if at all). I'd assume that we would most likely see one come out in 2-3 years. If not, I don't think they'll be any more.

Gabrobot
09-17-2005, 09:26 PM
As far as what engine a new Jedi Knighty game should use, I'll just throw out another reason why the Doom 3 engine would be great. Here's something Brian Harris, a programmer at id Software, said on doom3world.org:

I really hate to thread-jack, but if you are doing a swordfighting game, you can actually go all-out with doom 3 since the ragdoll and animation stuff is in the game code. You can use the animation for the feet and control the arm bones completely in the code. My suggestion would be to make it third person and when you click and drag the mouse it moves the sword around in the same motion.

Sounds kinda like what Obi-Wan was doing when it was a PC game. Just imagine a saber fight where not only can you directly control the saber motion, but also where physics are combined with it all as well...the possibilities are endless. :)

Tinny
09-17-2005, 10:16 PM
But Half Life 2 has ragdoll right? Wouldn't it be better to use hl2 because of the havok physics engine and the HUGE environments?

Kurgan
09-18-2005, 01:28 AM
JA came out at a time when most left in the JO community swore no more "Jedi" games were coming anytime soon. Some claimed to have friends at Lucas Arts and Raven and were in contaxt with them via email, yadda, yadda. When JA came out it was a surprise to everyone and we all found out Raven had been working on it since a few days after JO's release. If LA is going to release another game, they are not obligated to say so one way or the other.

Well, it was only a year after JK2. Using the same engine base saves a lot of time for a sequel. Now it's been more than two years since JA, and still not even a rumor of a new Jedi game (unless you counted ROTS: The Console Game, which I'm told kinda sucked anyway).

At least in the case of JA, JK2 was a great game to begin with. SWBF had serious problems, and its sequel is supposed to supplant it pretty much ("it's the game we wanted to release in the first place" they're saying).

If it uses a new engine (which it will, at least new in the sense of the JK series not using it before), it'll feel new and different. Whether it uses Doom3 or Havok or Unreal Tech, etc. they'll still have to work from the ground up to add the melee combat and force system. It'll still be a lot of work and take years. All of those engines have ragdoll, don't they? It's kind a standard feature anymore in FPS game engines.

The idea of using "Mouse saber control" has its downsides. How are you going to make it work well in an environment with lag such as multiplayer? How are you going to make it useful for a PC gamer that isn't using a controller with dual analog sticks? Having more realistic physics (as Obi-Wan tried to do) and more interaction with the environment is a fine idea, but I'm sure it's even more work. Whatever the case we're in for a long wait.

Gabrobot
09-18-2005, 05:19 AM
But Half Life 2 has ragdoll right? Wouldn't it be better to use hl2 because of the havok physics engine and the HUGE environments?

Half Life 2 has rag dolls as well, yes...of course the physics code can't be released to modders since it uses Havok. The Doom 3 SDK actually has the entire physics engine open to modders to modify or even replace...in fact the SDK has about half of the games code. I'm not aware of any other major engine out which is this open to modders.

Anyway, Source's collision detection seems to be somewhat suspect which would be pretty bad for saber fights...Doom 3's per-poly collision detection would be far better IMO. Physics-wise, Doom 3, as a game, didn't really use its physics engine very much...it's actually pretty good if you turn on g_dragentity and start throwing things around. (Grab a dead zombie by the arm and swing it around)

And Half Life 2 didn't have any huge environments...it's use of portal skies gave the impression of a huge draw distance, but it didn't actually have anything that large. Artistically Half Life 2 was brilliant and gave those kinds of impressions without actually literally doing it. Source is actually somewhat limited because of its BSP implementation...the Doom 3 engine is portal based and has no actual limit to level size. It also means there's hardly any time to compile levels compared to BSP implementations. A week ago or so, I ported a level from the 1998 game Trespasser to Doom 3...the level terrain is about a mile in size, and it was just a matter of seconds to compile it.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~trescom/board/viewtopic.php?t=3639

And of course Quake Wars is another example of huge environments in the Doom 3 engine...in fact it uses a Doom 3 engine technology called MegaTexture which allows the use of a single huge 30,000 by 30,000 texture for the terrain which completely eliminates the need for tiling. :)

The idea of using "Mouse saber control" has its downsides. How are you going to make it work well in an environment with lag such as multiplayer? How are you going to make it useful for a PC gamer that isn't using a controller with dual analog sticks? Having more realistic physics (as Obi-Wan tried to do) and more interaction with the environment is a fine idea, but I'm sure it's even more work. Whatever the case we're in for a long wait.

Yeah...the multiplayer is especially problematic. I think that won't be completely possible until there are much faster connections that can handle all the physics and collision detection and stuff. As for the mouse thing, I think it could work well if when you click you can swing your saber by moving the mouse...the camera view could continue to move as well, since it would be in the direction the mouse is going (although perhaps it would need to be slower). It would need a lot of tweaking, and it would have to be very smooth and responsive...but I think it would be brilliant if done right. And I think Raven would be a great company to do it since they seem to be pretty good at getting things done properly in a reasonable amount of time. :)

Kurgan
09-18-2005, 04:51 PM
Half Life 2 has rag dolls as well, yes...of course the physics code can't be released to modders since it uses Havok. The Doom 3 SDK actually has the entire physics engine open to modders to modify or even replace...in fact the SDK has about half of the games code. I'm not aware of any other major engine out which is this open to modders.

That sounds cool for modders, but really has nothing to do with whether it would make a good Jedi game or not. A company liscensing the engine would have much more access to things than a modder would ever dream. And how many people are going to make a mod of the Jedi game and completely rewrite the entire animation physics and saber engine for their mod? So that really isn't such a big problem as you make it sound. ;)

Anyway, Source's collision detection seems to be somewhat suspect which would be pretty bad for saber fights...Doom 3's per-poly collision detection would be far better IMO. Physics-wise, Doom 3, as a game, didn't really use its physics engine very much...it's actually pretty good if you turn on g_dragentity and start throwing things around. (Grab a dead zombie by the arm and swing it around)

Then the question is how that translates to online play. I've been told (and I'm no network systems expert so I could be misunderstanding this) that most games don't have to send a lot of data for online play. You're either shot or your shot. Whereas all the saber stuff in JK2/JA is very complex and error prone. It's their "best compromise" that we endup seeing. The more complex the physics the more strain on the server and the more chances for it to goof up on somebody's end. So while more and more complex physics seems like a great thing, it comes with its own problems.

And Half Life 2 didn't have any huge environments...it's use of portal skies gave the impression of a huge draw distance, but it didn't actually have anything that large. Artistically Half Life 2 was brilliant and gave those kinds of impressions without actually literally doing it. Source is actually somewhat limited because of its BSP implementation...the Doom 3 engine is portal based and has no actual limit to level size. It also means there's hardly any time to compile levels compared to BSP implementations. A week ago or so, I ported a level from the 1998 game Trespasser to Doom 3...the level terrain is about a mile in size, and it was just a matter of seconds to compile it.

So we're really talking here about the illusion of huge areas vs. actual huge areas to explore. It depends on the case really. For multiplayer the illusion of size is usually fine. A giant single player level is a nice thing but it need not be done that way, most games tend to break them up into chunks and as long as the load time isn't severe, you'll barely notice you're not in the same giant level, but several sub portions of it.

And of course Quake Wars is another example of huge environments in the Doom 3 engine...in fact it uses a Doom 3 engine technology called MegaTexture which allows the use of a single huge 30,000 by 30,000 texture for the terrain which completely eliminates the need for tiling. :)

Is Quake Wars what they're calling Quake IV now? Also, what's the deal with 30,000 x 30,000 textures? While that's a nice feature to have, that just means you'll have to design a texture that's that big. Is all that work really necessary? I'd be tempted to copy and paste and tile while making the texture to save time! But I'm sure that's just the limit of the feature if you happened to want to use it for some strange reason. I mean, in a game do you stop and stare at each grain of sand to see if it's just a copy of the grain of sand 10 feet away on another patch of ground? Most of the time that wouldn't even matter, in fact probably all the time where an FPS is concerned.

Yeah...the multiplayer is especially problematic. I think that won't be completely possible until there are much faster connections that can handle all the physics and collision detection and stuff.

Super complex physics might require them to limit the number of players below what we're used to or skimp on other things. I don't know. But if that's the case, then that's a pretty big trade-off.

As for the mouse thing, I think it could work well if when you click you can swing your saber by moving the mouse...the camera view could continue to move as well, since it would be in the direction the mouse is going (although perhaps it would need to be slower). It would need a lot of tweaking, and it would have to be very smooth and responsive...but I think it would be brilliant if done right. And I think Raven would be a great company to do it since they seem to be pretty good at getting things done properly in a reasonable amount of time. :)

The trouble is I've seen how this kind of "mouse control" which sounds great at first, actually plays out. Everybody remember "Die by the Sword"? It had full mouse control over your swings. Swing your mouse, swing your sword. Swing fast, you swing fast, swing slow, you swing slow, etc. The trouble is even though it worked, it took little skill. Basically a battle was won by who could "wiggle" their mouse the fastest. So break your wrist, and you lose!

It's akin to winning a multiplayer fighting game by button mashing. I mean, what's the fun in that, ultimately? And of course lag affected it like anything else. You could choose between the VSIM mouse system or preset attacks, but there's my point. People assume a free swinging mouse based saber would be more realistic and more fun, more movie-like, more natural, etc. but there's still the issue of game balance and fun. People would learn to swing wildly to overcome their opponents.

Gabrobot
09-18-2005, 06:56 PM
That sounds cool for modders, but really has nothing to do with whether it would make a good Jedi game or not. A company liscensing the engine would have much more access to things than a modder would ever dream. And how many people are going to make a mod of the Jedi game and completely rewrite the entire animation physics and saber engine for their mod? So that really isn't such a big problem as you make it sound. ;)

Well I noticed people talking about ease of modding and stuff earlier, and this certainly is pretty big as far as that goes. (Especially if the combat system relies heavily on physics...with a closed physics engine anyone wanting to change the system is pretty much screwed)


Then the question is how that translates to online play. I've been told (and I'm no network systems expert so I could be misunderstanding this) that most games don't have to send a lot of data for online play. You're either shot or your shot. Whereas all the saber stuff in JK2/JA is very complex and error prone. It's their "best compromise" that we endup seeing. The more complex the physics the more strain on the server and the more chances for it to goof up on somebody's end. So while more and more complex physics seems like a great thing, it comes with its own problems.



So we're really talking here about the illusion of huge areas vs. actual huge areas to explore. It depends on the case really. For multiplayer the illusion of size is usually fine. A giant single player level is a nice thing but it need not be done that way, most games tend to break them up into chunks and as long as the load time isn't severe, you'll barely notice you're not in the same giant level, but several sub portions of it.

Yep, well a lot of this comes down to SP vs. MP...I'm thinking more from a SP standpoint here rather than MP. For MP you can always just simplify things if there's too much going on...Quake 4 for example uses hitboxes in MP rather than per-poly collision detection since that was one of the things that caused Doom 3's lag. Jedi Knight games have always had a major SP focus and the better tech would greatly enhance that. MP unfortunately can't benefit from most of the physics stuff because of the lag, but at least it can be in SP.



Is Quake Wars what they're calling Quake IV now? Also, what's the deal with 30,000 x 30,000 textures? While that's a nice feature to have, that just means you'll have to design a texture that's that big. Is all that work really necessary? I'd be tempted to copy and paste and tile while making the texture to save time! But I'm sure that's just the limit of the feature if you happened to want to use it for some strange reason. I mean, in a game do you stop and stare at each grain of sand to see if it's just a copy of the grain of sand 10 feet away on another patch of ground? Most of the time that wouldn't even matter, in fact probably all the time where an FPS is concerned.

Actually Quake Wars is a completely different game that is being developed by Splash Damage (who made RTCW: Enemy Territory)...in fact the full name is Enemy Territory: Quake Wars.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/enemy-territory-quake-wars/

I don't think anyone actually draws the 30,000 x 30,000 texture by hand...Splash Damage hired some texture artists with procedural texture experience, so I think the texture may actually be procedurally generated at load time. (1Gb textures are kind of heavy to be including with each level) Apparently different materials have different physical properties, which makes me think the artist just "paints" different materials onto the terrain. With procedurally generated materials, you can have huge expanses of sand or rock or something without tiling. Look at the Trespasser screens in the link I posted to see why tiling is a bad thing...tiling isn't a problem up close, it's the overall pattern that becomes very apparent when seen from a distance that looks bad. It means a lot of extra work to hide the tiling. With the ability to just have a huge texture, things are a snap to make (at least with procedurally generated textures).

And I would like to see larger levels...One of things that was great about Jedi Knight was how huge the levels were. When I think "huge environment" that's the sort of thing I think of. You can't fake Jedi Knight's levels with portal skies. And besides, with vehicles and stuff, large levels are pretty much a must or else it feels very cramped. The image in my head right at the moment is the very high elevator in the fuel station level...it was incredible because the elevator was just screaming up at a tremendous speed, but the tower was so high it still took a long time...looking at the space ship you could tell that the size was real. That's the sort of thing that needs to return.


The trouble is I've seen how this kind of "mouse control" which sounds great at first, actually plays out. Everybody remember "Die by the Sword"? It had full mouse control over your swings. Swing your mouse, swing your sword. Swing fast, you swing fast, swing slow, you swing slow, etc. The trouble is even though it worked, it took little skill. Basically a battle was won by who could "wiggle" their mouse the fastest. So break your wrist, and you lose!

It's akin to winning a multiplayer fighting game by button mashing. I mean, what's the fun in that, ultimately? And of course lag affected it like anything else. You could choose between the VSIM mouse system or preset attacks, but there's my point. People assume a free swinging mouse based saber would be more realistic and more fun, more movie-like, more natural, etc. but there's still the issue of game balance and fun. People would learn to swing wildly to overcome their opponents.

Well, that's why physics would be a must as well...in real life if you try and quickly swing your weapon back and forth like that you'd quickly lose your balance and end up making a fool of yourself (in quite a deadly way). If things are set up right the same thing would happen in-game...it would require players actually use their head to win. Of course with MP all this data is a nightmare to get across the internet...it could probably work over LAN if we're talking 2-3 person duels. I guess other than that we're stuck with Jedi Outcast combat (since even Jedi Academy was problematic).

Personally I hated Die by the Sword's system since it seemed like the swing was always way too high or way to low or something...it was never where I felt I was actually moving my mouse. I think technology may not have been far enough along for it to work properly...I think it could be done now though. Of course it's no easy task, and it could easily come off completely wrong, but I still think it could be worth it, at least for SP.

Kurgan
09-18-2005, 08:43 PM
Well, that's why physics would be a must as well...in real life if you try and quickly swing your weapon back and forth like that you'd quickly lose your balance and end up making a fool of yourself (in quite a deadly way). If things are set up right the same thing would happen in-game...it would require players actually use their head to win. Of course with MP all this data is a nightmare to get across the internet...it could probably work over LAN if we're talking 2-3 person duels. I guess other than that we're stuck with Jedi Outcast combat (since even Jedi Academy was problematic).


That's all well and good but you'd have to part artificial limits on people then, because in the gaming world most of the stuff that limits us in real life doesn't apply, and for good reason (it's more complicated and cuts into the fun). Would they add a tired meter as well? Think of how over-reliance on physics ruined a game like Trespasser. Now there was a disaster! Not only was it "unrealistic" but it wasn't even fun.

Would it really be desirable to have a feature that makes you stab yourself with your lightsaber or fall flat on your face if you swing your saber too fast?

The thing is, if this were a straight "duel" game, it wouldn't be such an issue. Like Doom3's small intimate matches, this could be a very personal, Soul Calibur-esque experience. The trouble is, that's a radical departure from the rest of the JK series. I think you'd drive away a lot of fans if you did that.

Leave that kind of thing to games like Revenge of the Sith or Obi-Wan. Then again playing on the console does have certain advantages there (if you're both playing on the same machine... no lag!).


Personally I hated Die by the Sword's system since it seemed like the swing was always way too high or way to low or something...it was never where I felt I was actually moving my mouse. I think technology may not have been far enough along for it to work properly...I think it could be done now though. Of course it's no easy task, and it could easily come off completely wrong, but I still think it could be worth it, at least for SP.

Doesn't matter. The point is, this type of control would just lend itself to "mouse wiggling" not skill. To counteract it would mean either introducing silliness straight out of Trespasser (see my above comment) or slapping "unrealistic" limits on how often you could swing. Ultimately I think it sounds like a good idea, but when you get down to it, it's not really an improvement.

In the end, you'll still end up with what we had in JK2/JA... a disconnect between Single Player and Multiplayer, two seperate games, which means even longer development time or they sacrifice one game mode's quality for the other.

Gabrobot
09-19-2005, 03:57 AM
Yeah, well I was mostly just thinking of something where if you try swinging your mouse back and forth, you end up off balance making it easy for the other person to knock you to the floor (if you haven't already fallen down due to swinging back and forth). More like something where the physics assist the way the gameplay is programmed, rather than the physics being the gameplay. (As you pointed out Trespasser showed what happens when you try taking that to the extreme) I guess ultimately you're right though that Jedi Knight is more of an all-out combat type of game where that type of precise combat isn't really appropriate. Still, I think elements of the tech could be incorporated to push JO/JA's combat further. Something to make a jump like JK to JO.

JDKnite188
09-19-2005, 10:43 AM
The mouse-based saber system is an ideal because it allows complete customization and requires skill. It is not hack and slash unless you are incompetent. It is also not a series of button combinations; it is free form and versatile. Unfortunately, the MP implementation is an issue. Perhaps in SP it could be completely mouse-based, but in MP (unless on LAN) it could be button comboes. Oh, I don't know.

Kurgan
09-21-2005, 10:19 PM
Well just think about why it wouldn't be a skill based system (if you have complete freedom):

Me: Wiggles mouse back and forth (my character swings rapidly)
Opponent: Wiggles mouse back and forth (their character swings rapidly)

Who wins? The person who swings faster, leading to more swings, which means they hit more often or else their swings "beat down" the defenses of the other and they win. Or it ends up being too random.

This is what happened with Die By the Sword online multiplayer sword fighting, and the selling point of that game was the mouse based melee combat.

It sounds like a great idea, but in actual practice it just leads to spammage, not skill.

Worse yet, if there's the ability to script, then people can bind "moves" to their mouse/keys that give them an insane advantage. Why sprain your wrist when you can use a macro that just moves the mouse crazily for you? Or does a complete 360 with one click? People may take advantage and cheat their way to victory (similar to using a "rapid fire" controller to win a "button mashing" sequence in a game).

Yes, in SP the computer player isn't going to just swing back and forth as fast as possible (and a computer could swing faster and longer than a human ever could anyway so it wouldn't be fair if they did) meaning you could just spam your way to victory. Again, unless they took away your freedom and limited you in artificial ways.

Now if you were using some kind of "Lightsaber controller" (a sword handle like in Omnisashu III or MAZAN: Flash of the Blade arcade game (http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=12872) or something like that) that wouldn't be as cheat prone because you would have to move the physical controller really fast, and you could limit that by making it heavy or cumbersome to do so, etc. Of course in a setup like that, would you require people to have the controller to play? Would they have an advantage or disadvantage over mouse/keyboard or other joystick users? That's a key question to ask if you were designing this game. ;)

Samduhman
11-03-2005, 11:38 AM
Been reading this thread and noticed the comments about Raven is to busy to work on a Jedi Knight game becuase they are working on Quake 4. Quake 4 is done so how about one of you with authority tell Raven to get right on Jedi Knight 4. Ok, thanks
:-)

Samurai DD
11-03-2005, 05:33 PM
I sure hope there is a JK 4. Won't happen soon, but imagine lightsaber dueling with the Nintendo Revolution controller, with a Quake 4 graphics engine.

I think I'll sleep until that happens.

shukrallah
11-03-2005, 09:22 PM
The mouse thing won't work anyways... why?

You trying to convert mouse movements on a 2D plane into a 3D game. It won't work... or it will look stupid. I like the current system. They just need to enhance it more, add a blocking option, and some counter attacks (simular to Soul Calibur's guarde break attacks)

For those unfamiliar, Guard break/impact or whatever it was called, was a special timed block, that the player had to initiat at an exact moment, which basically almost knocked the other guy down by blocking his attack... leaving them open for a quick few hits. This makes both players think before they hit...

Its also good because if someone is getting stabbed a lot and can't get away they can guarde break the attack and get a few hits in. This can't be spammed, because the only way to do it is to have someone swing at you first, and you have to get it just right. Simular to the stab thing in JKA, the only way to stab a player on the ground is to knock them down.

Tinny
11-03-2005, 09:27 PM
I sure hope there is a JK 4. Won't happen soon, but imagine lightsaber dueling with the Nintendo Revolution controller, with a Quake 4 graphics engine.

I think I'll sleep until that happens.

That would rock so hard, combine that with geo modding and havok physics for the force powers. Love your avatar btw.

StaffSaberist
11-04-2005, 09:31 AM
Um... we started argueing about which engine was the best. The thread starter wanted to know if JK4 was coming out. As of now, the answer is no. The thread starter even said he didn't want a "this-engine-is-better" war, or something like that. This thread is long overdue for a closure.

Samurai DD
11-04-2005, 05:02 PM
The answer indeed is no for now, but they will do one... some years from now. Well, whatever. This thread does need closing anyways.

PD: Thanx, Tinny!

shukrallah
11-04-2005, 09:52 PM
Maybe... It would be cool if they make another one. Crap, they could be making one now. Anyways- chances are if one is in development right now we won't hear about it until E3... which is a good few months aways. Man... I love E3 and TGS....

Jade Jedi
01-22-2006, 03:53 AM
* Darth Vader: This is an interesting one. Many rumours have been around for some time regarding a Jedi Knight/Outcast style game revolving around the rise of Vader and the Empire. It's all quiet on the Vader front lately, but it's possible this game may re-appear around E3 time if LucasArts make it a reality.Found this quote in an article about "what's new for Lucasarts in 06 " at theforce.net (http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/LucasArts_in_06_96344.asp) I dont know where they got this info from but I hope it's true. :slsaber:

Kurgan
01-24-2006, 12:44 PM
I remember hearing about the "Darth Vader Game" back in the day, but we all assumed what that REALLY was, was "Episode III: Revenge of the Sith" for consoles. What would they do this time, a Vader game that lets you play through the classic trilogy? That would be neat, but I wonder if the rumor poster realized the possible connection with that game that was released last year to coincide with the movie...

Now of course they billed ROTS the game as "the ultimate Jedi simulator" and people talked about it as if it were the first game with lightsaber and force powers (it wasn't of course), etc. etc. Basically they implied it was the next Jedi Knight game, but it clearly wasn't, since it didn't have first person, it wasn't set in the same era and didn't have any of the same characters or storyline, and was not released on PC.

Considering how annoying some people found that game, hopefully they can do better!

Well, anyway, if nobody has any new information on a "JK4" I think it's time to close this... until next month when the next person asks, then just send them the link to this thread to read. ;)

•-BLaCKouT-•
01-24-2006, 02:15 PM
Any chance of stickifying this thread Mr. K?

JDKnite188
01-24-2006, 04:19 PM
Wow, I am suprised this thread is still alive. Then again, if it wasn't, some moron would surely make another JK4 rumor thread anyway.

Until LEC decides to make a quality JK game that can compete with other big name FPS's as opposed to simply competing with other Star Wars games, this series is dead to me. Chances are against us, though, because LEC will milk the cash cow until the utters are bone dry, regardless if their products are mediocre or not.

Kurgan
01-24-2006, 06:56 PM
Don't be so ready to call them "morons." Merely, not as informed as we are. ;)

After all, EVERY time somebody likes a game, they almost always hope for a sequel, and turn that hope into a "is there a rumor" type thread. See the Battlefront 3 thread, the Republic Commando 2 threads, etc. Heck the SWBF3 one came out shortly after the first game came out! People demand sequels to games they like, it never fails...

I agree though, we don't need a sequel just for the sake of a sequel. It should be worthy of the series, and not something rushed or done half-way. We don't need a rehash, but something special. I personally think there's plenty of potential in the series, such as exploring the Dark Side angle, expanding on the ideas begun in the "siege" gametype of JA, and bringing back the "morality scale" and other underutilized ideas introduced earlier in the series. Some people think too one-dimensionally with this and assume that we either have to get rid of Kyle Katarn or make it an entirely saber based game and since that would be boring and divergent, then we should give up on the series.

Of course it's really out of our hands, since LucasArts gets to decide if there's to be a sequel or not, and when, and by whom.

Frankly I think JA and JK2 DID (and do) compete with other FPS games. I'm not sure which games you mean that are only competing with other Star Wars games (Battlefront series perhaps? Republic Commando?). Even as pure FPS games, the JK series is amazing. I'm concerned with the multiplayer aspect, but even in those areas, the two recent titles are very much within the FPS tradition. It's more recent titles, outside the JK series that have failed I think.

Yet, supposed "bare bones" FPS games that are extremely hyped and popular still "Fall down" in terms of features. Compare say Doom3 with Unreal Tournament. How feature rich is Quake IV compared to UT2k4? There's something to be said about marketing potential. Anyway, yeah, what else needs to be said here...?

We could lock this one, but you're right, somebody else will just ask again in a few weeks. ;)

MachineCult
01-25-2006, 10:32 AM
Any chance of stickifying this thread Mr. K?
Is there any point? I thought these rumors were unfounded...

•-BLaCKouT-•
01-25-2006, 02:23 PM
Hopefully, stickying it would stop people from posting new threads on it every other week. And when they inevitably do post a new one anyway, we can a) link it easily as it's on the front page, and b) point out to them that it's actually on the first page.

It seems to be a recurrent topic, so I thought stickying might be a bit of a solution. (we could do with a parsepacket_entities one as well, didn't there used to be one?)

El Sitherino
01-25-2006, 02:26 PM
Good point.

Consider this bitch stuck to the wall.

Neon
01-25-2006, 03:30 PM
Bah, I was already thinking when I saw this post being a sticky, that you did it because there would be real rumours :(

MachineCult
01-25-2006, 03:40 PM
Hopefully, stickying it would stop people from posting new threads on it every other week. And when they inevitably do post a new one anyway, we can a) link it easily as it's on the front page, and b) point out to them that it's actually on the first page.

It seems to be a recurrent topic, so I thought stickying might be a bit of a solution. (we could do with a parsepacket_entities one as well, didn't there used to be one?)
And hopefully at some point there will be some rumors about a new Jedi Knight game.

Ham Yoyo
02-23-2006, 08:02 PM
More hopefully there will be some facts about a new Jedi Knight game. :)

Darth_Malak02
02-23-2006, 08:58 PM
Not until the releases of Dark Forces III and Mysteries of the Sith II!



Dark Forces 3 and MotS 2...Are you being sarcastic or serious?

thehomicidalegg
02-26-2006, 10:12 PM
most serious.

lonewolfgk
03-13-2006, 05:34 PM
Hi Guys,

i know you are pushing to get this thread closed but...

I would also like to see a new JK game and i would like 2 things:
Maybe you guys will agree or fight with me.
1. I really think that if we can have a JK game like Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion or Gothic or etc. this would be great.... now wait before you crap all over me. What i mean is, imagine a Star Wars world as big as Elder Scrolls with a living world and npc that go around their business and you are a Young Jedi in this world, you can shape you own destiny and do just what you want when you want like in elder scrolls IV Oblivion. Imagine traveling to planets and meeting all kinds of nps's good and evil, imagine turning to good or the dark side and fighting for them. There is so much possibilities in this if it is a open ender RPG where you do what you want. LucasArts could maybe even give this to Bethesda to design. But in this whole RPG game the fighting must stay the same where you fight yourself. I choose this. I thing that Star Wars Galaxies and KOTOR and KOTOR II would have had better success if people fought themselve and not just choose the action. It must be like the JK games. This rules. That is what makes the game and that is the fighting by yourself.
2. I do not want this one but i will settle for this point if i cannot get point 1.
The next JK should at least be much longer. JKA was really very short and was not worth the money if you talk about the levels. The fighting is worth it. It could do with a better story like in JK2 Jedi Outcast. And they should keep it basic Jedi versus Sith and not bring out stuff that was not in the Star Wars Sagas or movies. This is afterall that made it great. If they do things like some guys did in there mods then it will fail. Stick to basics. They could also improve the lightsaber moves and battles.

I really think we should start a poll and list these kind of ideas and then give this to LucasArts. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Thanks for listening and thats it.

LoneWolfGK

Neon
03-14-2006, 10:43 AM
The jedi knight series are good like they are now. And I think you better play star wars galaxies ;)

lonewolfgk
03-14-2006, 01:17 PM
The jedi knight series are good like they are now. And I think you better play star wars galaxies ;)

Obviously you did not read what i said.
I played Star Wars Galaxies and it sucks, WHY???????????? As i said before!!!!

YOU CANNOT FIGHT YOURSELF, THE GAME FIGHTS FOR YOU. Where is the fun in that and that is where Star Wars Galaxies went wrong. It would have been great if the fighting was like Jedi Knight series. Plus Star Wars Galaxies is a online game, i want it single player like Jedi Knight.

Do you understand now what i mean?

Have you played Elder Scrolls?? If so then you will understand the freedom you had and it is a single player game and not online.

I have a problem with online games because you must pay for the game and also a monthly subscription. WHat a rip off.

Cheers

LoneWolfGK

dtriniman
03-14-2006, 03:37 PM
Hi Guys,

i know you are pushing to get this thread closed but...

I would also like to see a new JK game and i would like 2 things:
Maybe you guys will agree or fight with me.
1. I really think that if we can have a JK game like Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion or Gothic or etc. this would be great.... now wait before you crap all over me. What i mean is, imagine a Star Wars world as big as Elder Scrolls with a living world and npc that go around their business and you are a Young Jedi in this world, you can shape you own destiny and do just what you want when you want like in elder scrolls IV Oblivion. Imagine traveling to planets and meeting all kinds of nps's good and evil, imagine turning to good or the dark side and fighting for them. There is so much possibilities in this if it is a open ender RPG where you do what you want. LucasArts could maybe even give this to Bethesda to design. But in this whole RPG game the fighting must stay the same where you fight yourself. I choose this. I thing that Star Wars Galaxies and KOTOR and KOTOR II would have had better success if people fought themselve and not just choose the action. It must be like the JK games. This rules. That is what makes the game and that is the fighting by yourself.
2. I do not want this one but i will settle for this point if i cannot get point 1.
The next JK should at least be much longer. JKA was really very short and was not worth the money if you talk about the levels. The fighting is worth it. It could do with a better story like in JK2 Jedi Outcast. And they should keep it basic Jedi versus Sith and not bring out stuff that was not in the Star Wars Sagas or movies. This is afterall that made it great. If they do things like some guys did in there mods then it will fail. Stick to basics. They could also improve the lightsaber moves and battles.

I really think we should start a poll and list these kind of ideas and then give this to LucasArts. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Thanks for listening and thats it.

LoneWolfGK

A man after my own heart. :D As I have said many times on many forums they need to make a game with a KOTOR stroryline (which is deep) and Jedi Knight action (which is intense). The sad thing is they won't. They are raking in the dough with that disappointing unfinished KOTOR II so there is no need for them to make anything else. They have other money vaccums as well in the form of Battlefront II (which from what i hear is a BIG success) and the soon to be released LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy (which if it's as good as the 1st will be a hit). So we just have to mod the current games we have to death. :(

lonewolfgk
03-15-2006, 02:54 PM
A man after my own heart. :D As I have said many times on many forums they need to make a game with a KOTOR stroryline (which is deep) and Jedi Knight action (which is intense). The sad thing is they won't. They are raking in the dough with that disappointing unfinished KOTOR II so there is no need for them to make anything else. They have other money vaccums as well in the form of Battlefront II (which from what i hear is a BIG success) and the soon to be released LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy (which if it's as good as the 1st will be a hit). So we just have to mod the current games we have to death. :(

Thank you for the words and i agree with you about KOTOR story but JK fighting. This rules. I just wish more people would mod JKA games.

Cheers

LoneWolfGK

razorace
03-15-2006, 04:49 PM
There's plenty of people moding JKA, there's just not enough players playing said mods.

ensiform
03-15-2006, 04:51 PM
yep and most players are lazy and wont even download a map, sadly this is one of the few fps' where i have seen this, almost all others i see ppl downloading mods and maps like crazy =/

dtriniman
03-15-2006, 06:35 PM
Who do YOU know? I know a lot of people including myself thta d.l a LOT of maps for JA. Maps, skins & hilts. So much so that we have to take some out from time to time.

ensiform
03-15-2006, 08:31 PM
lol? back in the days of chop shop many ppl were too lazy to download the custom maps, some did yes, but still the only client mod ppl download is JA+ for the most part which is sad because it has too many kiddie anims and gp changes. and pluginDisable doesnt excuse it.

Lathain Valtiel
03-16-2006, 01:22 AM
Ensiform and Razorace are completely correct.

The JA community is mostly composed of morons.

StaffSaberist
03-16-2006, 01:26 AM
Just out of sheer morbid curiosity: Did you intend to say anything, or did you just feel like being inflammatory?

Lathain Valtiel
03-16-2006, 02:24 AM
Huh? I wasn't referring to anyone in the thread.

Sith lord 826
04-01-2006, 05:47 PM
There will not be anymore jedi knight series the most that will happen will be mots

TK-8252
04-01-2006, 07:10 PM
There will not be anymore jedi knight series the most that will happen will be mots

Your post fails to make sense.

Kurgan
04-02-2006, 01:44 PM
Maybe he meant that MotS storyline is the only one with a future in sequels in his opinion.

Anyway, it was April Fool's Day, so he may not have been entirely serious? Who knows. ;)

Can we keep this one alive with anymore silly posts? Just checking... heh

Tinny
04-02-2006, 08:16 PM
Aye, LucasArts is making Republic Commando 2: Jar Jar's Assault for PC, xbox 360, and iPod.

StaffSaberist
04-02-2006, 09:06 PM
Today's date is April 2. In my time zone it's been that way for 18 hours, 6 minutes.

Tinny
04-02-2006, 09:30 PM
I know, I was responding to Kurgan :)

CoffeeBlack
04-06-2006, 07:28 AM
If they do end up making a new JK game I would like to see some more open game play (maybe in the line of massive maps like those in GTA style games or even KOTOR, where you can choose when you handle major story based missions and whether you want to handle smaller missions, like bounty hunter missions or small quests), but I would like it if they would keep the current style of combat. After all these are not RPG games they are of a more action based genre. I would also like to see a more advanced system for vehicles, something along the lines of what they have for Battlefront 2. If they make the games more open like this, then it would also provide for a longer, more involved SP game experience.

The only other thing I would like to see is a more advance character customization system, with more species and the ability to alter facial features, clothing, tattoos, and physical attributes like strength and weight. Also, it would be nice if you could actually build and customize your own saber, rather than just choosing from already constructed designs from the game designers.

Of course, if they were to actually make a game like this it would be massive. Most likely involving three to four discs for installation at least. But I am sure that such a gaming experience would be great.

Kurgan
04-06-2006, 02:50 PM
If they do end up making a new JK game I would like to see some more open game play (maybe in the line of massive maps like those in GTA style games or even KOTOR, where you can choose when you handle major story based missions and whether you want to handle smaller missions, like bounty hunter missions or small quests), but I would like it if they would keep the current style of combat. After all these are not RPG games they are of a more action based genre. I would also like to see a more advanced system for vehicles, something along the lines of what they have for Battlefront 2. If they make the games more open like this, then it would also provide for a longer, more involved SP game experience.

The only other thing I would like to see is a more advance character customization system, with more species and the ability to alter facial features, clothing, tattoos, and physical attributes like strength and weight. Also, it would be nice if you could actually build and customize your own saber, rather than just choosing from already constructed designs from the game designers.

Of course, if they were to actually make a game like this it would be massive. Most likely involving three to four discs for installation at least. But I am sure that such a gaming experience would be great.

Personally I like the "arcade style" vehicles of JA, but I agree they could be better. Still, using SWBF2 as a model is problematic. Those vehicles are SLOOOW. Compare to SWBF1, where they at least had cockpit HUD views and first/third person view. Granted, in JA vehicles forced you into third person (unless you resorted to trickiness with the firstperson lightsaber command!). But essentially SWBF2 eliminated cockpit views (except for zooming gunners on some vehicles), slowed down and nerfed them all, and only added a "dash" or the aireal tricks for airborne vehicles. Also the controls for many of them sucked. Compare the HORRIBLE speeder bike from SWBF1/2 to the awesome fun Swoop bike from JA. No contest! Sure it's nice to have two people inside an AT-ST in SWBF1, but that second person just gets to fire the single shot slow reloading blaster, and you get no rockets! Plus the camera view sucks, even if you get to "turn the head" (in JA MP you couldn't turn the head, only fire in the direction you were facing, unlike in Single Player, but frankly the MP version was more fun for some reason).

DeadYorick
04-07-2006, 12:52 AM
I Just thought of something. How about not a sequil but an expansion pack? It would continue the story. Like if you were evil Jaden then you would try and build your empire, or if you were good jaden you would fight against another evil. The possiblitys are endless. Also I would also like more customisation. Like you could be a zamarak and a kel dor MALE. Or some other speices. Like there would be another disc just for customisation. There would be the best customisation since starwars galaxys!

StaffSaberist
04-07-2006, 02:15 AM
Not a bad idea, but that would be better as a Jedi knight 4. That way, there would be no need to have both installed (though most of us would! :D). Also, that way anyone who joins the series late can get an understanding of what's going on without having to buy two games.

And no, guys, let's not get into another discussion about "Is JA JK3 or a JO expansion pack". That's for another thread, which I imagine will be closed swiftly for bringing up an old topic. I think it's JK3. Deal with it. :)

DeadYorick
04-09-2006, 02:31 AM
What ever i think thats best. But yeah I would like to be a customised zamarak with reborn clothing and a face design but i guess I have to play starwars galaxys a little more to get that.

IrishDragon
04-18-2006, 01:58 PM
If and when they do release a JK4 they had best release it with a Linux server file as well.

I want to slap the daylights out of them for releasing BattleFront II without linux server files. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my money on a windows based host. *vomits*

So for folks like Amidala who are in contact with the creators, please ask them to include the linux server files when they release a game that can be played multiplayer. :)

___ACROBAT___
04-24-2006, 01:25 PM
E3 will be held on May 10-12, 2006 in the Los Angeles Convention Center. Let's hope lucas will be annoucing a sequel to the jk series. I think enough time has passed since Mar 26, 2002 when jko was originally released.

Here are the relsease dates for past games


1) Star Wars Dark Forces (PC) Feb 28, 1995



2) Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (PC) --Sep 30, 1997

Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith (PC) -- Jan 31, 1998 (its expansion)




3) -Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (PC) -- Mar 26, 2002

Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (PC) -- Sep 17, 2003 (its expansion)



4) jedi knight 3 tis year???


4 years have passed since jko came out. If they were to annouce the start of a new project now, we could have it in a year or so maybe?





If and when they do release a JK4 they had best release it with a Linux server file as well.

I want to slap the daylights out of them for releasing BattleFront II without linux server files. I'll be damned if I'm going to waste my money on a windows based host. *vomits*

So for folks like Amidala who are in contact with the creators, please ask them to include the linux server files when they release a game that can be played multiplayer. :)

admiralmark
04-24-2006, 04:54 PM
If there will be another JK game (I hope there will be) It NEEDS to be for the nintendo revolution! Although it wouldn't be modable, the controller would match the game! the gyroscope in it would let you use it like a lightsaber!

Kurgan
04-25-2006, 03:55 AM
2) Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (PC) --Sep 30, 1997

I thought it was Oct. 9, 1997? For a long time I thought it was Oct 7th, but the real date seems to be 9th as attested to on many sites on the net. The game had so many delays, a lot of incorrect dates were listed so maybe that's why you posted that one? I'm talking the official release date here.


Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith (PC) -- Jan 31, 1998 (its expansion)

I could have sworn it came out the first week of February, it was delayed as well, maybe that's why?


4) jedi knight 3 tis year???

We can only hope! If it gets announced at E3, I'll certainly be surprised though. I would have thought we'd have heard at least a rumor by now. But I will be pleased nonetheless if it happens. Here's hoping... ;)


4 years have passed since jko came out. If they were to annouce the start of a new project now, we could have it in a year or so maybe?

Wow, how time flies! Seems like only yesterday...

Buffy
04-27-2006, 07:49 AM
GL said Star wars new TV Serise is coming this end of year also He said one of Original cast from Movie too (gues who ??)
so next JK game coming on same time or after TV star wars is hit ..
of course Star wars TV serise is going to hit so lot of new Jedi Kight story game is coming too ... :king1: :laughing:
do you believe my Force sense ? :laughing:

CoffeeBlack
05-07-2006, 02:58 AM
If there will be another JK game (I hope there will be) It NEEDS to be for the nintendo revolution! Although it wouldn't be modable, the controller would match the game! the gyroscope in it would let you use it like a lightsaber!

A taste of things to come? http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=10187&type=wmv&pl=game

Commander Obi-Wan
05-07-2006, 03:00 AM
The "Vader Game" is rumoured to be a new JK game.

Neon
05-07-2006, 03:37 AM
That would be stupid.
Just like Star wars galaxies it would go back in time, wich wasn't a succes at all.
They need to go forward, not backwards.

•-BLaCKouT-•
05-08-2006, 03:01 PM
wich wasn't a succes at all.
Galaxies? While I haven't played it myself, I'd hardly say it "wasn't a success". Sure, I've heard people bash it, but then again looking round on these JK boards, there's no shortage of bashing ;) It's irrelevant to the 'success' of a game.

Anyways...
That would be stupid.
Just like Star wars galaxies it would go back in time, wich wasn't a succes at all.
They need to go forward, not backwards.
The Galaxies issue aside, imagine a JK-mode game, where you can run around as the newly-restored, bionic bad-guy Darth Vader. A single player storyline where you hunt rogue Jedi and their sympathisers over several story arcs and planets, and a multiplayer strand where you can enjoy a the developed classic gamestyle we're all used to, with the benefits of a new engine, and all-new maps and player characters.

Nah, you're right - it sounds awful doesn't it? ;)
Who'd want to play as Vader?
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/files/search/?search_category=all&fields_name=1&fields_filename=1&keyword=vader&game=38#results

(I'm not having a go at you personally, Neon, just playing devil's advocate ;) )
B.

DarkStarMojo
05-08-2006, 08:36 PM
Technically, I believe the Vader game is something entirely original and not meant to be part of the JK series. Will it be similar to JK - in terms of lightsabers and force powers maybe, but remember that the JK series is also a first person shooter which means guns of various sorts and I seriously doubt a credible Vader game would make use of those. Also, a lot of fans - myself included - wouldn't really consider a JK game without Kyle involved in some fashion to be part of the series. At any rate, there have bee some interesting ideas proposed but I, personally, feel the series needs to go back to its roots - Dark Forces and Jedi Knight, which means:

- more focus on guns and less dependancy on the lightsaber as an uber weapon.
- individual missions that are unique (ala visiting a different local for each level like DF) and are an integral part of the story rather than simple training missions that, IMO, are sometimes less memorable than the later half of JO, which aren't that memorable themselves to begin with.
- a story involving Kyle as the main character (or at least a Katarn, if it's set in the prequel trilogy era ;)) that isn't a whole, "the fate of the universe is at stake" kind of shtick (again, like DF)
- customizable force powers to add some more RPG-ish elements.
- more interactive vehicles.
- more interactive levels.

I'd also like to see a modest engine - not the latest top of the line stuff that's going to force me to buy the most expensive PC, but something that looks good. Frankly, the Unreal Warfare engine (Republic Commando) would be a fine choice if it jumps in the near future. I'd also like to see the original designers involved in some fashion (as they made the two best in the series) and I wants some original music again, dangnamit! :)

Of course, this is all just fan daydreaming and will probably never happen, certainly not for the next few years. But considering the JK community is the largest of any in Lucasforums and JKA is still being modded 2 1/2 years later, is it really all that difficult to image a new game happening eventually? Just look at the popularity of this thread and countless ones like it. ;)

Kurgan
05-08-2006, 10:44 PM
What "Vader game" are you talking about? I remember how we were all excited back in the day about THAT announcement, but it just turned out to be the Episode III: Revenge of the Sith game. A console only third person game with a poorly realized coop mode and no gunplay, just acrobatic sabering.

HamBurgler
05-09-2006, 03:52 PM
SIGN ME (http://www.petitiononline.com/jk4nowz/)

JDKnite188
05-10-2006, 12:30 PM
the series needs to go back to its roots - Dark Forces and Jedi Knight, which means:

- more focus on guns and less dependancy on the lightsaber as an uber weapon.
- individual missions that are unique (ala visiting a different local for each level like DF) and are an integral part of the story rather than simple training missions that, IMO, are sometimes less memorable than the later half of JO, which aren't that memorable themselves to begin with.
- a story involving Kyle as the main character (or at least a Katarn, if it's set in the prequel trilogy era ;)) that isn't a whole, "the fate of the universe is at stake" kind of shtick (again, like DF)
- customizable force powers to add some more RPG-ish elements.
- more interactive vehicles.
- more interactive levels.

I'd also like to see a modest engine - not the latest top of the line stuff that's going to force me to buy the most expensive PC, but something that looks good. Frankly, the Unreal Warfare engine (Republic Commando) would be a fine choice if it jumps in the near future. I'd also like to see the original designers involved in some fashion (as they made the two best in the series) and I wants some original music again, dangnamit! :)

*applauds*

Yeah, that's almost exactly what I want in the next game. They should have never left the roots. DF, JK, and MotS were on a much higher level of quality in gameplay, story, and design and were indeed the best of the series. Forget Unreal Warfare, which I have a hunch was used for console capabilities, and check out the spectacular Unreal 3 engine (www.beyondunreal.com).

razorace
05-11-2006, 05:11 PM
LucasArts has mentioned an interest in a lightsaber game for the Wii. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9270) While I think the new controller setup is interesting, I don't see it being as useful as advertised. Dozens of controllers have tried and failed where the Wii wants to succeed. We'll have to wait and see.

Gabrobot
05-11-2006, 09:55 PM
What "Vader game" are you talking about? I remember how we were all excited back in the day about THAT announcement, but it just turned out to be the Episode III: Revenge of the Sith game. A console only third person game with a poorly realized coop mode and no gunplay, just acrobatic sabering.

It was mentioned in a New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/17/technology/17lucas.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=c9363d020bd178ed&ex=1302926400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) about a month ago, and more recently Lucasarts showed the game off to select game reporters...well, more like showed the game technology off, as they didn't really reveal much about the game itself. It's not entirely clear if the player actually plays Darth Vader or not, but he's definitely in there.

CVG Preview (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=139639)

IGN Preview (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/705/705550p1.html)

Edit:

Lucasarts Press Release for DMM Technology (http://www.lucasarts.com/press/releases/108.html)

StaffSaberist
05-11-2006, 11:21 PM
OMFG... I... want... that... GAME!!!

katanamaru
05-11-2006, 11:35 PM
I think the difference in the way the sabers and guns were handled between MotS and JO and JA is because of the filming time of the prequels. The original JK and MotS were using the concept of the Jedi based off the OT were luke used guns just as much as his saber. Then the prequels show up with the Jedi flipping, slashing and force pushing things around all the time. The movies changed our conceptions of what a Jedi could do and the market had to change as well. I personally would be happy with either way of playing but I honestly prefer JO and JA too the originals, I like saber fighting too much.

jom
05-13-2006, 04:12 AM
The movies changed our conceptions of what a Jedi could do and the market had to change as well.

Without question this is true....

I personally would be happy with either way of playing but I honestly prefer JO and JA too the originals, I like saber fighting too much.

I like the saber fighting myself BUT...I think a new game can go back to the DF games to add back in some elements of "thinking" such as finding your way out of jams (other than just hack and slash) like puzzle solving or finding secrets. Possibly having to use something OTHER than a lightsaber.

That being said...I just recent finished JA for the first time (yes...I'm a late comer to JA...way late) and it was simply not up to the quality of JO. The levels were far too linear and easy from a "thinking" standpoint.

If they can add a good story, JA saber fighting elements, hugh level play like JO and some good puzzles like with DF and JO it would be the game for me...

jom

Samnmax221
05-13-2006, 07:27 PM
I think the difference in the way the sabers and guns were handled between MotS and JO and JA is because of the filming time of the prequels. The original JK and MotS were using the concept of the Jedi based off the OT were luke used guns just as much as his saber. Then the prequels show up with the Jedi flipping, slashing and force pushing things around all the time. The movies changed our conceptions of what a Jedi could do and the market had to change as well. I personally would be happy with either way of playing but I honestly prefer JO and JA too the originals, I like saber fighting too much.

I like the way they handled it in JO an JA myself not allways having to go up to F(something) to make a force jump, though I wish for more gunning myslef

Kurgan
05-13-2006, 09:55 PM
The "Jedi don't use guns" thing is a brain bug, which developed as a result of the Prequels.

The Jedi in the EU mix up "dark" and "lightside" powers, they use other weapons besides sabers all the time. In the prequels the one bone we were thrown was Obi-Wan's blastering Grievous.

Don't let "canon brainbugs" get in the way of a good game. Without gunning, the JK series would be missing something serious.

Let's face it, the Episode III game is NOT a good model for a future JK sequel. Nice graphics (now surely dated), but that's about it...

Samnmax221
05-13-2006, 10:01 PM
When you remember that this all started with Dark Forces in which there were no lightsabers, it kinda makes you ill thinking about what they might be conceiving now

razorace
05-13-2006, 10:24 PM
Personally the guns never really matter to me as long as the lightsaber combat is good. However, I do agree some of the JKA maps could use more puzzles....but the JKA maps were better than the JKO maps simply because they didn't have unreasonably difficult puzzles in them. Basically, I prefer a combination of action and puzzles (which had reasonable answers).

DarkStarMojo
05-14-2006, 01:40 AM
True, lightsaber combat has been influenced by the prequels but that doesn't mean that the lightsaber has to be an uber weapon that players will constantly rely on in place of the good ol' bryar pistol or stormtrooper rifle. I try not to but more often than not I find myself battling enemies with the saber more than with any two weapons combined. This is only the case with JA, however, and not so much JO. I think they overexpanded the combat system and all the additional moves make combat against non-saber opponents too easy. Honestly, the only thing I find a major advantage of JA that JO truly lacks in its saber combat is the ability to stab opponents when they've been knocked to the ground. Otherwise, the rest of the acrobatic moves I don't use too much and I find it difficult to image Kyle using any of them either. He's a mercenary-turned-Jedi, after all, not a gymnasty. Maybe that's why, after working on the Jedi Knight Mod (yes, I know. Shameless plug :p) a lot of people seem to want the system to bring back elements of the original. And OJP makes the combat system more skill-based rather than hack and slash, which requires you learn to use the saber rather than simply rely on it like a crutch. In theory, this is what JA has attempted to do with expanded moves and combinations, but it fails because there isn't much of a balance.

As for level design, I'm not interested in overly complex puzzles that are more frustrating than anything. Rather, I'd like to go back to the DF days in terms of each level feeling unique and memorable from the last, perhaps by venturing to a different planet each time, if possible and at least more often, and by restoring a sense of atmosphere to the design. As excellent as a lot of Raven's designers are, most of JA lacked a real sense of atmosphere during missions. The Corellia mission is one of the few that succeeds in this respect, but Korriban is an antithesis in that it's a bright, sunny day when it should be dark and desolate and stormy and all black and red and such. Same for Taspir. It should have been darker and more like Mustafar, even if it was before EPIII came out. This is, of course, a matter of artistic sense more than anything, but it's important to a game because a level with atmosphere is something that sticks with you, that you want to play over and over again, as opposed to something generic which is easy to forget and throw aside when you're done with it.

StaffSaberist
05-14-2006, 10:56 AM
DarkStarMojo, I agree with you 90%. The remaining 10%% is the fact that I liked the challenging puzzles, because they didn't feel like puzzles to me that were deliberately placed, they seemed... well... a bit more natural.

Remember Level 10 with that one forcefield that the only switches were behind the force field? When I first got the game (I was 12, cut me some slack), I ran up there and nearly killed myself looking for the switch. I was about to leave that spot when it deactivated - a glitch, really.

Anyways, I later learned the true solution: Shoot out the fan generator, go on the alternate path, and jump in on the foes. That seems like a Star Wars version of 007, and to me it was very immersive. But the puzzles weren't shoved in front of you like: "Look! A achallenging level! Rate me well!". Too many level-makers that integrate puzzles (and there are very few) do exactly that. The makers of JK knew what they were doing, IMO.

And the spinning thing on Level 18? I was synched with Kyle when he said "You have *got* to be *kidding*!" I can't tally how many times I died trying to cross it. However, it was the only way, and the game allows you to see that puzzle get into motion, you've been working with that slab since the beginning of the level... wow.

Then Level 19 had an interesting puzzle - pitch black with Kell Dragons! I was scared of that level for a month before I figured out that Force Seeing and a Concussion Rifle/Rail Gun are your friends. (Which proves your point about how guns were nerfed in HO and above - you needed to use your guns in JK unless you wanted to run)

So basically, my point is that the puzzles are what made JK such a kick-ass game. Sometimes, guns are needed to solve puzzles, and that makes it useful to conserve your ammo on the lower levels where you can.

Doctor Shaft
05-31-2006, 12:00 PM
I disagree with the idea that the sabers needed to nerfed. I think JO/JA collapsed for three reasons. Most of them have already been mentioned.

1.) The Community

Nuff said. We had too many 12 year olds given extensively annoying and easy to use admin powers. Plus a forum battle that started within 1 month of JO's release in which people started talking about "Honor." This very thing has never existed in any FPS game that I have EVER played in my life, but here we were, four years ago, fighting over whether or not someone had "Honor" while hacking people apart in a FFA battle zone.

Top it on with the worst decision ever made in video game history, aka: "Duel Mode" which let you become invincible to everyone except your buddy, and then you had the very free-form, free play structure of JO fall into absolute ruin.

What kid could resist having his ego boosted as people both a) Demanded that they stop dueling, to which said kid could refuse and annoy everyone, and b) further boost his own ego by defeating said friend in usually really bad hack slash saber combat? The answer is no kid could resist that tug. Add on the JO+/JA+ admin creations that started surfacing, and now we had a whole league of uber-mensch admins with God mode, broken emotes that again stilted game play, and all kinds of other mess.


2.) Bad Patch Decisions

JO felt its quick demise the minute it decided that lightsabers had to be nerfed (a point of disagreement I have with even the people posting in this thread). There's a little myth that still apparently exists in the Jedi Knight community, and that myth is that lightsabers have somehow "taken over." This was never the case.

I've played on all kinds of servers. I even got to fight some of the early competitive clans (not officially or on a clan of my own, mind you). Guns were so far above lightsabers, especially after the nerf, that it wasn't even humorous. One only needed four Force Powers (two, technically) to get along if you wanted to use guns. It was called Speed, Jump, Push, and Pull. Speed and Jump allowed you to be the ultimate bunny hopper (a skill that helps Gun-Users, not "Saberists") and Push and Pull were basically your alternate guns.

1.03, and 1.04 brought in an age where saber duels were wiffle bat contests, and gun vs. saber combat was rare, at best. Sure, people would constantly gloat "THE LIGHTSABER SHOULD ONLY BE A TOOL!" but if we were to compare what kind of tool that lightsaber had become, one could only say, "COUNTERSTRIKE COMBAT KNIFE." And we all know just how great that is.

My point being that they never struck a good balance between saber combat and gun combat. If people wanted to use Force Powers and guns, the saber could still be used, but the learning curve was WAAAYYYYYY too high. I've never had a problem, in any version of JO, using a gun. I have had a problem trying to get a kill with a saber, even when I closed range (which is supposedly when the "TOOL" aspect of the lightsaber comes in... funny the Imperial Flechette did a better job even in that area).


3.) Lack of willingness to play mods or download maps

I guess this is another "Community" factor, but I feel it needs a mention of its own, and others have already said. Even when JO came out, for whatever mysterious reason, no one wanted to download maps or play any of the GOOD mods that came out.

To my recollection, JO saw the release of some fairly good mods that actually got completed as opposed to simply announced one thousand times. Of course... people were too busy playing "Admin Mod" instead of an actual mod, which has perplexed me to this very day. We had:

a) JK++ : A competition mod that put more speed into the game, actually evened out saber vs. gun combat by making the saber lethal as opposed to "counterstrike knife tool," and made CTF incredibly fun. And yet... no one wanted to play it. All I could remember were the big competition clans, with their egos way in the stratosphere, crying, "But sabers are cheap man... no one kills ME in one hit. They have to beat me with the Imperial Repeater/Imperial Flechette first to gain respect!" I'm still left wondering why that was necessary. Oh well, needless to say, JK++ fell by the wayside when everyone decided that nothing was good enough unless it was an "OFFICIAL RELEASE" from Raven Software, which was never going to come.

b) Promod : This was a personal favorite of mine. It evolved from a simple lightsaber modification, to a bounty hunter versus Jedi, to a highly polished system that put rating on ALL the weapons, gave saber combat a little more depth and structure, and made bounty hunter versus Jedi fun to play. It wasn't perfect, but it was light years ahead of what was out there and what has come since. And yet!!! No one played it.... Or at least, there were only 20 or so of us who enjoyed it constantly, and then it was no more.

c) Forcemod : It was a fun creation. Not exactly much on the precision and competition side of things, but hey, it had some neat things in it. I liked messing around with it once in a while. This is probably the only mod that still lives on. Of course, even then, most people play it to its most broken levels.


I know there are other mods out there today. I know people are serious and use the OJP, etc. But basically, JO/JA died because everyone was just too stubborn to accept things. The first release had a few bugs... but no one could accept that combat wasn't exactly like the "Good ole days" of JK and MoTS, where Force Speed and a Conc Rifle ruled the day. When mods came out, no one supported them, either because it wasn't "official," or they didn't like mixing their swords with guns. It was either Swashbuckling or blow stuff up. No compromise. I encountered that attitude everywhere I went.

To be honest, I haven't even been thinking about a new release for JK because I'm afraid the precise same thing is going to happen to the community and the game. We'll get a decent game with decent multiplayer settings and balance to start. Then the nerf bat will come and return the game to the dark ages of the originals. Then they won't ever reverse these affects because the community is too busy complaining about a nebulous concept called "Honor in Videogames" instead of asking Raven/Lucasarts to make good, constructive changes to the game. The Mod community will release a few small gems of content, but everyone will ignore because it's either not official (and you can only be l33t if you play the official game), or actually involves both guns and lightsabers as viable forms of combat, as opposed to one or the other.

I'm more than a little bitter. :)

Kurgan
05-31-2006, 01:43 PM
I don't have time to respond to the other stuff just now, but I will say that one major reason for the lack of use of mods in the community is do to the antiquated and crappy auto mod download system in the Quake3 engine. It is capped at a very slow speed and doesn't have any options. UnrealTournament had a much better system where you could specify a URL to download the mod right in the (excellent) built in server browser.

The Q3 engine server browser sucked royally compared to UT, but nobody who used the Q3 engine to make an FPS seems to have tried to really improve on the old design. As a result, a lot of people just said "screw it."

Of course people downloaded tons of skins, hilts, and saber blade colors, but that was fine because you could use those files even if nobody else had them (of course only you would see them but still).

People did download and use maps, that seems to be the one exception, but typically they favored a handful of poorly done maps that had gimmicks in them or were used by clans for "Training." The excellent Raven bonus maps were hardly used.

The nerfed sabers were done specifically to appease those who felt Duels were "too short" and wanted them to seem more "cinematic like single player."

In JK2 1.04 they specifically put in a cvar to allow you to use 1.02 damage again if you wanted, and advised people to use this for "best results." It was in JA like that from day one.

Powerful sabers made sense for all weapons play or for class based play. Weak sabers only made sense in a dueling setting to make the fight last longer and thus (to some) feel "more cinematic" and more like what they were used to with single player battles.

The game itself or the Raven developers can't be blamed for crappy mods, but I agree, the popularity of crappy mods did hurt the reputation of the game long term in the community by pushing out the people who didn't like or got sick of, the style of play of those mods (and those mods were easily spread because they only required the server to use them and were thus virtually "invisible" and many noobs even got confused and thought they were the default game settings!).

"Honor" existed in Heretic II, also made by Raven software, but that game was not really an FPS (It was 3rd person and combined some shooting with lots of melee fighting). Raven put in the saber challenge to appease the "dueling purists" but they never dreamed it would be pushed to the extreme it was by the honorz n00bs.

DarkStarMojo
06-02-2006, 04:06 PM
Most of the points I've made here in the past have been with regards to the singleplayer aspect of the game. The lack of weapon balance and the saber being an overused uber weapon were mainly in reference to SP combat where it was just easier to use the force and hack an enemy to pieces than shoot them most of the time. Basically I've focused my attention on singleplayer because that's where I've spent most of my time. Still, MP is a crucial component to the success of a game because of the replayability factor and the fact that a good MP match is a helluva lot of fun. Essentially, the problems that existed in JO/JA are a good model for future developers on what not to do. We can anticipate that future games will have people who are going to have a whole "honor" complex because of the nature of the SW movies and Jedi and all that. They take their game seriously but in a different way from people who just want to have a good, fun, enjoyable experience. Personally, there needs to be a balance so that people who want to play the game with "honor" can do so via duels but can't exclude people who are just looking to have fun and kill some time. Maybe a time limit on duels and a limit to the number of times you can challenge a particular person to a duel within a set period of time would help. As for the lack of mods being played, I think Kurgan is right. Hopefully, a new engine will have better mod support for MP games so people will actually go to the effort to download them. But again, the problems with JO/JA can, if a good company designs the next game, be used as a blueprint to avoid them in the future and make a better SP/MP experience. Plus, they really need to keep listening to the community and find a general concensus for what should and should not be in the game.

rozo100
07-01-2006, 11:02 AM
DarkStarMojo, I agree with you 90%. The remaining 10%% is the fact that I liked the challenging puzzles, because they didn't feel like puzzles to me that were deliberately placed, they seemed... well... a bit more natural.

Remember Level 10 with that one forcefield that the only switches were behind the force field? When I first got the game (I was 12, cut me some slack), I ran up there and nearly killed myself looking for the switch. I was about to leave that spot when it deactivated - a glitch, really.

Anyways, I later learned the true solution: Shoot out the fan generator, go on the alternate path, and jump in on the foes. That seems like a Star Wars version of 007, and to me it was very immersive. But the puzzles weren't shoved in front of you like: "Look! A achallenging level! Rate me well!". Too many level-makers that integrate puzzles (and there are very few) do exactly that. The makers of JK knew what they were doing, IMO.

And the spinning thing on Level 18? I was synched with Kyle when he said "You have *got* to be *kidding*!" I can't tally how many times I died trying to cross it. However, it was the only way, and the game allows you to see that puzzle get into motion, you've been working with that slab since the beginning of the level... wow.

Then Level 19 had an interesting puzzle - pitch black with Kell Dragons! I was scared of that level for a month before I figured out that Force Seeing and a Concussion Rifle/Rail Gun are your friends. (Which proves your point about how guns were nerfed in HO and above - you needed to use your guns in JK unless you wanted to run)

So basically, my point is that the puzzles are what made JK such a kick-ass game. Sometimes, guns are needed to solve puzzles, and that makes it useful to conserve your ammo on the lower levels where you can.

*NOTE* This is NOT rozo, this is his sister. *NOTE*
I agree with you completely. I have ALWAYS used guns more than saber, saber usaly just annoys me. :)
1.) They have to have puzzles
2.) Kyle. I despise jaden above all others. Dnt ask why, cuz i dont know.
3.) BRING JAN BACK!! And less ugly :D
Maybe in the next game, you could be kyle looking for Jaden after he/she runs away in JKA? ANd trey to turn him/her back to the light side, but if you cant you have to kill him/her. I wanna kill jaden :-P

toms
07-01-2006, 09:46 PM
DarkStarMojo, I agree with you 90%. The remaining 10%% is the fact that I liked the challenging puzzles, because they didn't feel like puzzles to me that were deliberately placed, they seemed... well... a bit more natural.

Remember Level 10 with that one forcefield that the only switches were behind the force field? When I first got the game (I was 12, cut me some slack), I ran up there and nearly killed myself looking for the switch. I was about to leave that spot when it deactivated - a glitch, really.

Anyways, I later learned the true solution: Shoot out the fan generator, go on the alternate path, and jump in on the foes. That seems like a Star Wars version of 007, and to me it was very immersive. But the puzzles weren't shoved in front of you like: "Look! A achallenging level! Rate me well!". Too many level-makers that integrate puzzles (and there are very few) do exactly that. The makers of JK knew what they were doing, IMO.

And the spinning thing on Level 18? I was synched with Kyle when he said "You have *got* to be *kidding*!" I can't tally how many times I died trying to cross it. However, it was the only way, and the game allows you to see that puzzle get into motion, you've been working with that slab since the beginning of the level... wow.

Then Level 19 had an interesting puzzle - pitch black with Kell Dragons! I was scared of that level for a month before I figured out that Force Seeing and a Concussion Rifle/Rail Gun are your friends. (Which proves your point about how guns were nerfed in HO and above - you needed to use your guns in JK unless you wanted to run)

So basically, my point is that the puzzles are what made JK such a kick-ass game. Sometimes, guns are needed to solve puzzles, and that makes it useful to conserve your ammo on the lower levels where you can.

Too true. JK had some of the best level design and environmental puzzle integration of any fps. Playing JO and JA just felt like linear, almost on rails, Quake 2 action... with the odd tacked on puzzle thrown in to try and be like JK.

The comment about the prequel saber style rings true too. JK felt much more like the OT saber style, and the balance between saber, force and guns was much better.

In JO they went much more for the flippy-do prequel saber style, with everyone fighting like they were in a jet li film. Which was definately fun for a while, but ultimately it was ALL there was, and so it soon got repetetive. (same goes for the prequels btw).
This is probably a very personal preference, but i prefer the samurai styled combat of the OT to the kung-fu styled combat of the prequels.. and liked flipping between guns and saber as you did in the old JK...

If anything it was multiplayer that killed JO. JK was clearly a single player game, with some basic (but fun) multiplayer added on. But that was because back then not many people did online multiplayer. Now every game has to have a balanced online multiplayer... and they sacrificed the feel, depth and enjoyment of the single player to try and give a fair, but unexciting, multiplayer environment to people.
*squelches back to swamp*

katanamaru
07-02-2006, 06:12 PM
True about guns needing a come back but I am worried the game would turn out to be another run of the mill shooter. It would suck if the developers focused on the guns so much that saber fighting took a step back and the level design was too generic. Sure FPS look good but they aren't really bringing anything new to the table now days. The JK series is great to me since I get to decide how I play the game. I can run around using nothing but choke, throw, and lightning to blast away my enemies; use all my guns and bombs to blow everyone to smitherens; and lastly be a whirling dervish of death with my saber or an honorable fighter who duels against the great injustice in the galaxy. Sure better puzzels, great level design, awesome mods, and such help make any game great when they are well balanced but JK has always been better than that since it features all those on top of letting me play my way.

Kurgan
07-02-2006, 10:14 PM
On the contrary toms, I think multiplayer was one of the awesomest things about this game, because up till that point all the FPS games were pretty run of the mill. It's true, Quakeworld had just been taking off by the time JK was released, but despite the fact that it was limited (at the time you could only play via trading IP's like on an internet forum or on IRC or something, or via the Internet Gaming Zone which at first was IE only, at a time when IE was inferior to Netscape Navigator, which most people used to surf the WWW those days). The MP gameplay was unique because it added force and saber and incredible speed (meaning full 3-d movement in the environment) to the FPS formula. No other game was like it in its heyday.

It's true the Single Player is what won it awards, but anyone who played the MP for any length of time can tell you it was sheer brilliance. The game fell behind in graphics and server capability (it was peer to peer, and typically didn't do very well with more than 8 players, unless you were on a LAN, though now with the tickrate limit bypasser reg file somebody put together, it may be possible to have those 32 player games we all dreamed about... at least on some good sized maps!).

***

Well to some purists, putting "guns" and "sabers" together is akin to blasphemy (though this is not something they could have garnered from the movies).

What always made the JK series unique (not counting the original DF of course, which had no sabers/force OR multiplayer) was how sabers, force AND guns all went together in one massive battle.

Granted, the lightsaber was NEVER up to the exacting standards of many fans. That's fine, because we can never be real jedi and representing swordplay realistically (but also being able to stand up to gunfighters) in a video game that you control with a keyboard and mouse (or gamepad on occasion) is just going to have certain limits. The JK series basically pioneered this idea in many ways, at least in an online context.

Anyway, yeah, I think seperating "guns" and "sabers" into to rival spheres, so that you have your "gunners" and your "saberists" Playing on different servers, that is a mistake. However if people decide to do that ANYWAY there isn't much you can do to stop them, but I don't think that they should make a game where you can ONLY fight blade to blade, or make the lightsabers good for NOTHING BUT dueling. Jedi Academy had it pretty close (as did Jedi Outcast 1.02) to what I would consider a "good job" of putting sabers and other weapons together to make a fun FPS.

That may not gel with what certain people portraying a "true Jedi" ought to be, but frankly I don't care what those people think, as they seem never satisfied. The JK series has always been about First Person Shooting, first and foremost, the single player campaigns nonwithstanding...

Other shooters out there seem content to be generic tech demo fodder, or the most part, or else seek to refine "stealth" and "tactical realism" squad based type stuff, or else go the route of games like Q3:TA (and QuakeIV which I hear is just a carbon copy in MP in that game anyway) and UT. So the JK series will always have something to offer, unless he skips out of the genre entirely and becomes sabers only (which would suck, frankly), or worse, a generic type Star Wars shooter (look at what happened to Republic Commando... then again you could say their effort was sabotaged.. here they had an opportunity to give us a squad and class based tactical FPS, but it ended up just being a rather generic FPS, even if you could do a few neat things like club people with your gun and have limited carrying capacity or force your flag carriers to go unarmed).

I agree about playing "your way." Some people preferred to use only lightsaber, while others picked up guns, and others (including myself) grabbed whatever came to hand, even if you had "favorite weapons." Class based play was cool too, in MotS and JA.

toms
07-04-2006, 03:11 PM
I don't want to cross-post, but i made a more detailed post in the "ideas for JK4" about what i'd want from a new game.

To sum up it would be a new character, in the tween-trilogy timeline and basically be JK meets Deus-Ex with better graphics.

Everyone has different ideas about what Jedi should be like, and what star wars should be like... so its better give people a gradiation between saber only at one end and gunbs only at the other. A deus Ex style system could do that, as you could add your points to saber skills, or force skills, or gun skills... or any combination of the three. Plus, modding your blaster seems to fit in really well to the OT way of doing things.

I actually played a bit of JK multiplayer and loved it.. but all the MP guys always used to complain and seemed to think JO was a big improvement.. and they played it more than me so i took their word for it. I tried it once and thought it was bland.. but i never gave it a proper try.

I think i'm the only guy who prefered the saber in JK to JO. Maybe its more down to the "imagination always beating real" factor, or the repetition factor... but somehow playing as a jedi in JK always felt more like *I* felt playing as a jedi would than playing as a jedi in JO. Even though JO had more complex saber stuff, more advanced force effects, etc.. I'm weird i guess.

I don't know if JK meets Deus Ex would sell big... but it would be a dream game for me, thats for sure.

JoesGuy
07-05-2006, 12:50 AM
Well George Lucas was never one to stop. Remember the original Star Wars? Remember the second trilogy? And now a tv series, after saying he'd end Star Wars with RotS. I'm sure a new Jedi Knight game will pop up.....eventually.

katanamaru
07-05-2006, 11:38 PM
I'm pretty sure you're not the only one toms, check out massassi.net and you'll meet a lot of guys who prefer JK to JO. Nothing wrong with that at all either. I prefer the original Soul Blade to any of the Soul Calibur series, it's all just taste.

toms
07-06-2006, 10:18 AM
I kind of feel that there is a space for both types of game. 3rd party saber games are probably better accomodated with games like Episode III... full on action games with loads of moves and combos.

Then a mode varied, in depth experience could be provided by a level of FPS/RPG that had a more tactical approach.

JO struck me as being a bit too stuck in the middle. Its saber combat wasn't as immediate or fun as Ep3, but it's level design and FPS/character development elements wern't as developed as JK.

Please sir, i want both!

Kurgan
07-06-2006, 12:02 PM
Hmmm, from what I've heard and seen about Episode III:ROTS (the) game, it probably wouldn't be the greatest title to base a new JK on. Terrible camera, frustrating and repetative gameplay and letdown coop mode.

Seriously, a consolized "3rd person saber only" Jedi game (especially one limited to what was seen in the movies) would suck... royally, for a fan of the JK series. Those are the kind of throw-away liscensed titles that are released to cash in on a new SW production, not inspire a dedicated online MP and modding community that lasts for years. (No offense to any Episode III: RotS fans, hey, I know Enter the Matrix had a huge fanbase too, despite being a mediocre overhyped game).

I don't want to just saber duel and solve puzzles while hacking down the odd brainless enemy or two. I want to rush around the map screaming with my big Star Wars cannon (tm) (perferrably a Concussion Rifle or Rail Detonator!) blazing, leaping dozens of feet in the air while gripping somebody and/or force shoving them over a cliff while my gun gets yanked away and I smack them in the face with my saber that I just whipped out and blast them in the face with more force before hitting the dirt and landing in somebody's stack of mines on top of the flag/goal, for the win... And it all happens so quickly that only my previous experience and training lets me realize what happened.

THAT is the essence of the JK series, to me... and what I hope is striven for in any successor to this series.

And please, don't make it like Battlefront (1 or 2)! And don't leave the MP half finished and unsupported like Republic Commando!

Honestly? Unreal Tech for the next JK game... combine the best elements of UT2k4, Jedi Academy, and Mysteries of the Sith... release it on PC (moddability and dedicated server support a requirement): for the ultimate JK game. I'd buy it in a heartbeat...

toms
07-07-2006, 01:16 PM
Nah.. i wasn't saying they should make JK like Ep3... more that they should farm off the full on saber battle game into EP3 style games... then make the JK games less flippy and slightly slower paced. (i heard it was quite good... like a poor man's ninja gaiden)

I'd rather it wasn't as fast paced as you describe... not like an UT2K style sports deathmatch game. I thought JK and Half Life had more "weight" to them because they were slightly more slower paced. Everything felt a bit more solid.

I'd want stamina bars, crosshairs that expand when you run or jump (though less so if you have a higher ranged weapon skill), limited but very customisable loadouts, slower movement when carrying a rocket launcher, some powers that work better from hidden positions, saber locks that are determined by timing not killing your mouse, etc.. , saber combat with maybe less styles and moves, but more tactics and timing.

I'm not sure i'd want a full on BF2 multiplayer... and i'm not at all bothered about vehicles as they've been completely pointless in all the JK games so far.

As for single player, i want branching dialogues, branching plots, open levels that can be attempted however you like (blast, sneak, saber, force, jump, hack persuade), the ability to buy, customise, repair and upgrade your equipment, etc..

I'd rather it was on the Half Life 2 engine than the UT one. It just seems a better fit visually and realism wise. UT (like quake) seems better suited to bright, colourful, almost comic book style games.. whereas the HL engine seems to be better suited to the dirty, rusty, industrial but real feel of the OT.

TK-8252
07-08-2006, 01:49 AM
Well George Lucas was never one to stop. Remember the original Star Wars? Remember the second trilogy? And now a tv series, after saying he'd end Star Wars with RotS. I'm sure a new Jedi Knight game will pop up.....eventually.

George Lucas has not played a role in the Jedi Knight series I'm pretty sure. The only game he was involved in the creation of I believe was the Episode III game.

I'm not sure i'd want a full on BF2 multiplayer...

Oh, that'd be sweet! :D

Siege mode from JA but not sucky! :)

katanamaru
07-08-2006, 10:33 PM
I agree about the 'weight' with JK and JA. UT is a little too fast for a Jedi Knight game unless it was force speed, and console fps seem too slow. No matter the hype I still can't seem to bring myself to play Halo.

Rumor
07-17-2006, 09:33 AM
Hmmm, from what I've heard and seen about Episode III:ROTS (the) game, it probably wouldn't be the greatest title to base a new JK on. Terrible camera, frustrating and repetative gameplay and letdown coop mode.

Seriously, a consolized "3rd person saber only" Jedi game (especially one limited to what was seen in the movies) would suck... royally, for a fan of the JK series. Those are the kind of throw-away liscensed titles that are released to cash in on a new SW production, not inspire a dedicated online MP and modding community that lasts for years. (No offense to any Episode III: RotS fans, hey, I know Enter the Matrix had a huge fanbase too, despite being a mediocre overhyped game).

I don't want to just saber duel and solve puzzles while hacking down the odd brainless enemy or two. I want to rush around the map screaming with my big Star Wars cannon (tm) (perferrably a Concussion Rifle or Rail Detonator!) blazing, leaping dozens of feet in the air while gripping somebody and/or force shoving them over a cliff while my gun gets yanked away and I smack them in the face with my saber that I just whipped out and blast them in the face with more force before hitting the dirt and landing in somebody's stack of mines on top of the flag/goal, for the win... And it all happens so quickly that only my previous experience and training lets me realize what happened.

THAT is the essence of the JK series, to me... and what I hope is striven for in any successor to this series.

And please, don't make it like Battlefront (1 or 2)! And don't leave the MP half finished and unsupported like Republic Commando!

Honestly? Unreal Tech for the next JK game... combine the best elements of UT2k4, Jedi Academy, and Mysteries of the Sith... release it on PC (moddability and dedicated server support a requirement): for the ultimate JK game. I'd buy it in a heartbeat...
you forgot flipkicks and the other things that made ff/so so great in jk2 :)

Kurgan
07-17-2006, 10:15 AM
Well the flipkicks and all that assumes the next game just takes the existing system from JA and builds off of it, rather than re-creating it anew.

Flipkicks are not strictly necessary, though they could be a fun addition. As is, they're a bit, shall we say, exploitable (though admittedly many enjoyed this aspect of play). ;) Not seeking to enter into a flame-fest about it, I'll leave it at that.



One more thing about gunplay in the JK series.

Keep in mind:

Dark Forces 1 had no multiplayer. It was supposedly originally planned, but scrapped before release. Obviously, there were no lightsabers or force powers included so it would have been more like Duke Nukem 3D or Quake 1.

Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith had identical gameplay in Single and Multiplayer. This was different than Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy which used a seperate executable (essentially a second game, using the same engine) for Single and Multiplay. The physics, animations, damage values, velocities, and all sorts of things were changed between the SP & MP of JK2/JA.

When you compare them, you'll see that the gunplay in the SP of JK2/JA is HORRIBLE. The guns tend to be extremely nerfed. Enemies can actually dodge the projectiles quite easily, and they don't do a whole lot of damage in most cases. Some of the guns fire fast, but have many disadvantages. I think they did this purposely to up the difficulty and encourage saber use. Multiplayer is completely different, with the guns be much more powerful (but some fire more slowly) and the projectiles are harder to dodge for the most part.

The point I'm making is that using guns in JK1 SP was actually fun, but in Jedi Outcast it sucked, which is why those first few levels where you didn't have force/saber yet were really really crappy to slog through (the only thing that kept me going was the storyline and the promise that I'd soon by using my Jedi stuff again finally).

Mysteries of the Sith was the first game in the series to actually start you off already with some powers and a saber to use, and on the last few levels they forced you to rely on saber/force. But multiplayer had tons of variety, including player classes for the first time (all of whom had only limited force and didn't spawn with sabers... though they could pick them up and use them off a dead Jedi or on certain maps there was a saber you could pick up, a real Jedi could force pull it away quite easily).

So people who've only played JK2/JA single player would probably agree that gunplay sucked, but those who've played extensive MP know better. ;)

A lot of people have said that they prefer the single player saber battling in JK2/JA to the multiplayer version (though I disagree with them), while in JK1/MotS it was quite the opposite (most people preferred the online version).

Kurgan
07-17-2006, 10:20 AM
PS: SWG was a success, but I think the point was they've lost a lot of fans to various changes, especially lately. They've been considered a disappointment by fans. And they're not so hot compared to other MMORPG's, especially WoW and EQ (which SWG was based off of).

The main criticism seems to be that promises were made, took forever, and then didn't live up to expectations, and overall the game lacked the "feel" of a true Star Wars game, feeling instead like a typical fantasy sword & sorcery MMORPG (a la EverQuest) just with a Star Wars paint job. At least that's what I've been hearing from former players and critics (myself never having ever played a single MMORPG).

JasperFett
07-19-2006, 10:12 PM
I think I may be one of the only ones who kind of liked the game. Maybe I need to dig deeper into the game, but so far, I don't have any compliants.

Kurgan
07-20-2006, 09:14 AM
When did you start playing it, before or after the "Combat Upgrade"? Did you use any of the "Expansions" (Jump to Lightspeed, Rage of the Wookiees, Trials of Obi-Wan)?

How long have you been playing it?

It seems the folks I've talked to who seem the most normal who have a good time are the ones who know other people in the game that they regularly play with. Of course none of them play SWG, they all played EQ and then moved on to WOW.

Prime
07-20-2006, 02:24 PM
When you compare them, you'll see that the gunplay in the SP of JK2/JA is HORRIBLE. The guns tend to be extremely nerfed. Enemies can actually dodge the projectiles quite easily, and they don't do a whole lot of damage in most cases. Some of the guns fire fast, but have many disadvantages. I think they did this purposely to up the difficulty and encourage saber use. Which I think is a misguided theory, since it is probably safe to assume that the majority of players do so because of the Jedi/lightsaber aspects, and so do not really need any such encouragement.

As for the ROTS game, I quite enjoyed it and in terms of lightsaber combat I think it does a lot of things well. While an exact copy of the system probably wouldn't be as appealing in a JK game, there is lots of good stuff that could be incorporated into a new system.

Kurgan
07-21-2006, 12:48 PM
Well compare the success of the JK series vs. the "success" of Obi-Wan and RoTS the game.

The replay value of those latter games is far lower (necessary when you cut out most or all of the gunplay and the first person capability, and limit the multiplayer to dueling modes as in the case of Obi-Wan, though RotS the game had limited coop), the modability nonexistent, the multiplayer extremely limited. Their sole claims to fame are that they were movie-tie in products that were shipped soley for big name consoles (which are virtually guarenteed to pull in big sales figures simply because they can charge more, and their customer base is used to generally lower standards in gameplay/variety.. let's face it, console gamers are used to repetative gameplay to unlock bonus items and sub-par graphics, I'm not even talking about official patches, which used to be relagated only to pc games, anyway, not to get off on a rant there).

The only draws I saw in ROTS were its use of co-op play (Jedi Academy actually had coop play straight out of the box, but it was completely unsupported and untested, meaning a lot of maps had major glitches in them, and only OJP mod has made any concentrated effort to work on improving that, that I have seen), which was limited to a select few maps anyway.

Otherwise it was a rushed (and overrated, thanks to the movie tie0in) game with bad controls and sloppy gameplay. I think what people are assuming here is that the saber and force combat systems in Episode III were that much superior to Jedi Academy/Outcast.

My question is... did RotS have online play? Because saber combat systems are complex affairs, meaning you have to compensate for lag. When you play on a console multiplayer, 9 times out of 10 you're playing on the SAME MACHINE meaning there is zero lag. That means you don't have to worry about latency and all the problems of any JK game.

Single player wise it hardly matters, they can do whatever they want. But a JK game would have multiplayer, which means putting up with lag in MP, which means your saber combat system has to be able to compensate for that and still be playable and somewhat fun. Thus even if the Episode III system turned out to be the best ever, it may not translate well to an internet multiplayer model.

It's true that real-time "Sword play" (and "sword play + magic") games, on any platform, are pretty rare, but not as rare as the gunplay + sword play + magic, which makes the JK series a class by itself (I don't count Diakatana, since not only was it a horrible flop, but it's melee weapon was just a fancy Quake axe/Half Life crowbar).

toms
07-21-2006, 03:20 PM
They are going for very different experiences... I always felt the JK games were more in depth than the console beat-em-ups which essentially take you through linear levels in a very narrow path.

I guess the DF and JK games did that too, but somehow they felt more open, like you had more freedom of movement, like everythign had more weight/mass.. maybe it was an illusion created byt he RPG-lite elements, or the larger arsenal of weapons and items..

I did think that JO and JA lost that feel a bit though.. htey certainly felt more linear, more lightweight... maybe because they nerfed the weapons and lightened up the RPG even more. Maybe just becuase of the Q3 engine being so familiar by then.

I do agree that it has to be very hard to create a good, balanced mutiplayer melee system that allows enough depth to be interesting, allows lots of people to fight at once and can cope with lag. Expecially when you then have to factor in exploits and cheats. I guess they did an ok job with JO, but since i only MPed it a few times and never really got into it I'm not really an expert.

I did feel that in some ways i prefered the JK saber combat.. which wasa very basic and basically consisted of 3 moves depending on your movement as you struck... but it also felt more simple and more tactical, as it was more about positioning. Maybe i just never mastered the JO system, but it always felt a bit cheap and a bit unreliable in places.. when I'd pull off moves by accident that i wasn't expecting.

Its hard enough to make a good 3rd person combat game, but when you have to take into account force powers, jumping all over the place, and the fact that really a single hit with a saber should remove your arm it becomes a nightmare...

I bet there are some good mods out there that have come up with a better system though.

For me, i'd be happy with a slightly simplified, slightly slower saber system, without the choice of styles. And with a Soul Calibur style Scissors/paper/stone basis.. and where the timing of attacks and chaining attacks was more important than the speed.

Maybe if there were three basic attacks (strong slow vertical BEATS medium side slash BEATS quick weak stab BEATS strong slow vertical) and you could cain them in a simple Prince of Persia style freeform/branching combo system. (where each stage of the combo would increase the damage of hits, but repeating moves would reduce the damage)

Ahh... who knows... make it too much about the saber moves and then it becomes too tricky to cope with both saber combat and movement at the same time.
But then if they slow the whole game down a bit to something more like BF2 than Q3 then maybe it would work.

Fortune Hunter
07-22-2006, 06:37 PM
Check this out:

CLICKY (http://youtube.com/watch?v=AC3bqyq9QQY&feature=Views&page=1&t=t&f=b)

Tinny
07-22-2006, 08:24 PM
oh snap!

katanamaru
07-22-2006, 08:41 PM
What is it? The place I get internet form blocks streaming media and d/ls.

Tinny
07-22-2006, 09:19 PM
Its a demo showing off starswars stuff with next gen tech.

Kurgan
07-23-2006, 04:30 PM
Hmm, interesting, hadn't seen that before. Does LucasArts know somebody swiped that from Hyperspace? Probably none-too-happy, but oh well.

Was that shown what was shown at E3, or something newer? Somebody who has it, let me know, I'm curious.

It certainly looks cool, but if it's just something for another KOTOR game or another console exclusive, I'll be disappointed. If it's just purely concept tech, that's still cool though.

Too bad THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-10zZ7s6W7w&NR) isn't official. ;)

Fortune Hunter
07-24-2006, 12:43 AM
as best as I can tell its a quick glimpse (for hypserspace members) of the Upcoming Star Wars game, I think its got a codename, but Ill have to look up what it is.

When they liscensed the euphoria physics engine they said it was going to be used for Indiana Jones and the next Star Wars game

EDIT:

Star Wars: Force Unleashed (working title) (PC / PS3 / 360)

Hound_Dawg
07-24-2006, 01:01 AM
Yeah I just saw that video, and told all my friends. We are all hoping it is a new Jedi Knight game, if they make another JK game, oh man, they'll be rolling in dough. So there is going to be a next gen Jedi Knight game you say Fortune, I have always looked around for official news, but if what you got is official, oh baby oh baby!!!!!!!!

Kurgan
07-24-2006, 01:53 AM
Did they actually announce that there is going to be another Jedi Knight game or is this just speculation? I don't have hyperspace and I'm too cheap to pay for it, honestly. We've all wondered if/when they were going to do the next game in the JK series (not just some game where you happen to be a Jedi... Obi-Wan and Episode III the game had nothing whatsoever to do with the JK series, nor did the KOTOR games or Lego Star Wars, even though those were all technically "Jedi" games, and the Jedi abilities were even added to SWG and SWBF2, so lots of games fit that description nowadays in a general sense at least).

But if there HAS been a new game officially confirmed, then that is huge news (the biggest news since 2003), and needs to be posted on JK.net (which I would willingly do immediately if I knew it was legit).

If it's just speculation that IF they ever made a new JK game and IF it's still current tech by then, they MIGHT use it, then nevermind (though a mention couldn't hurt, but I'd hesitate to post a link to the video if StarWars.com would get on us for somebody re-hosting some Hyperspace material).


Maybe my memory since E3 (I didn't go) is a little foggy, but this wouldn't be that "Darth Vader game" they were talking about was it? Because that to me didn't sound like it had any connection to the JK series at all... it sounded more like a next generation Episode III game type deal. But who knows what they have planned for the JK series (at one time they told us Obi-Wan was very much going to be the successor to JK, which of course turned out to drastically not be the case).

TK-8252
07-24-2006, 02:00 AM
It is not a new Jedi Knight game and anyone who says it is is lying or seriously needs to question where they're getting their information.

I have Hyperspace, and here is what their caption was for this particular video:

"As shown at Comic-Con International 2006: pre-rendered, pre-visualization of Force Power use in the upcoming next-gen Star Wars title. Though not actual game-play, this video presented the concept of how the Force could be used in a next generation game."

Clearly there is no evidence to believe that this would be a new Jedi Knight game.

Kurgan
07-24-2006, 02:22 AM
Thanks TK, for clearing that up. I was gonna say.. where have I been?? ;)


Guess we'll just have to keep an eye out and see what this new title is all about...

Fortune Hunter
07-24-2006, 08:25 AM
It is just a demo of what COULD be, but A game is still looming.

I was wrong in my assumption that it was a Jedi Knight game, I misinterpreted what I read, it is just a STAR WARS game at this point, so I appologize for that.

Proof and reference to this upcoming Star Wars game:
http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/starwars2007/news.html?sid=6150933
http://uk.pc.ign.com/objects/823/823669.html

toms
07-24-2006, 12:56 PM
That was a great tech demo... though it didn't look like a particularly great game. Too much like JO/Ep3 for my liking... and though it all looks funky its basically just improved visuals on the powers in JO. Was there anything in that vid you couldn't already do in JO??

Throwing boxes i guess... but you could do that in JK...

It looks like good tech, but if they don't use if for more than windowdressing then it'll hardly revitalise the franchise.

Kurgan
07-24-2006, 01:17 PM
Point taken, they just put in a delay and the ability to take multiple targets at once, otherwise the powers look like variations on JK2/JA's version of Grip, Push and Pull (and JK1's Force Throw). However you didn't have the ability to rip parts of the architecture and toss them around in any of the games (well, I guess technically in Jedi Academy there were a couple of scripted points where you could do so, but typically not to defeat enemies, just remove obstacles to continue your progress, like that boulder on Chandrilla).

The article did mention ledge grabbing for enemies (as the one stormtrooper does on that piece you tear off).

Prime
07-24-2006, 03:52 PM
I think what people are assuming here is that the saber and force combat systems in Episode III were that much superior to Jedi Academy/Outcast.I'm just saying that ROTS lightsaber combat had some good ideas, IMO, that would improve the system of JO/JA. I found that as much as I like the games, the run-swing-run-swing style of fighting in JO wasn't very realistic. For the heavy swing in particular, getting out of the way that big slow swing was the only option for defending yourself. It all led to a lot of blind running and swinging by many players (flip-kicks aside).

I found that the ROTS system of dueling did a nice job of adding a little defense as well as slowed the movement down at appropriate times. Plus there was a much larger variety of moves and styles available. I think some of those aspects, if incorporated into a new JK system, would lead to better gameplay.

The issues with ROTS were not necessarily inherent in the system chosen, but in the final implementation.

Fortune Hunter
07-24-2006, 05:36 PM
I never played it, but from the sounds of it, the fighting and movement was more fluid which is something JK needs. More fluid animations and possibly more scripted interactions with enemies, "moves" if you will.

Also: the euphoria engine allows for destructable environments, and remember JO and JA were both built on the Quake 3 engine, which didnt support dynamic physics... ie the likes seen in Half Life 2 and Farcry.

I think its actually a great improvement as the ragdolls, moveable and breakable objects, the possibilty to lift and propell objects (like the gravity gun in HL2) would add more gameplay. sure you could push and pull stuff and people, but especially lacking ragdolls it was all very akward. I also think the improved model and bone structure could lead to much better interactions and movements. This is just a brief and quick thing, I have a feeling that much more is to come, and besides I like lightsabe games, so even another JK game on the quake 3 engine would make me midly content.

toms
07-24-2006, 11:52 PM
With next gen animation and physics they really should be able to pull something off where the players sabers interat more... so rather than hitting a person until their health bar drops, you'd have a back and forth fight where blows were blocked, until you wore down their defences and had a chance to finish them through the opening.

Ideally the game would be on Wii, but failing that I think they should go for a more gritty, samurai feeling to the fights.. less third person fliping and special moves, more timing and openings. And more weight.
Maybe they should even make it FIRST PERSON combat. Recently a number of games seem to have finally figured out how to do FP melee combat, and it can be used to add impact to the blows and blocks. (Riddick and Might & Magic come to mind, also Oblivion).
Have a "ready" stance like you get with a lot of the more realistic shooters.. where you raise your saber, but move more slowly. In normal stance your saber might block incoming shots from a distance, but if raised it would send shots back, and it would autoblock all incoming saber attacks..
Then, instead of a sheild have a slowly recharging "defence" meter.. and each block would reduce it. Timing would be important for attacks and counter attacks, and good attacks would raise your defence meter while reducing your opponents.. the better timed attacks would reduce it more, the badly timed and repetetive ones would reduce it less.
Use riddick/PoP:2 Thrones style screen effects to show timing for openings and counter attacks.. and then when one player's defence meter was depleted, a "finishing move" could be used to take off a very large percentage of their health.

I don't think that just adding good physics to the tired 3rd person saber/force run/slow/flip mechanic is going to do more than add a few levels of fun before you realise its actually the same old stuff you've played 10 times before.

Gabrobot
07-25-2006, 01:26 AM
The game apparently takes place in between Episode III and IV (latest TFN gaming news post). Also, from what I heard back around E3 time, select reporters got to see actual in-game real-time gameplay, and it was the same kind of thing as seen in this pre-rendered video, so it may actually deliver what it promises.

With next gen animation and physics they really should be able to pull something off where the players sabers interat more... so rather than hitting a person until their health bar drops, you'd have a back and forth fight where blows were blocked, until you wore down their defences and had a chance to finish them through the opening.

Modern physics/animation technology has Inverse Kinematics which allows exactly this. It would suit Jedi Knight style combat beautifully! :smash:

razorace
07-25-2006, 06:03 AM
The technology is getting to the point where this sort of detail is going to be possible, (SmoothMotion is the name I think).

But, I think we're really going to have to wait and see. The video shown was a pre-rendered video, which is the same sort of thing you saw in Episode 3. The difference between that and a playable video game is VAST.

Anyway, as for my two cents, I think the core of the next ideal Jedi Knight game would be focused on dramatically improving the pure lightsaber combat. While force powers are fun to play with, I think battling with the lightsaber should be as in-depth and as fun as possible.

Fortune Hunter
07-25-2006, 06:19 AM
The Wii has been confirmed for support by Lucasarts, but not on this one.

I agree about the need for a new style of fighting, over the mad clicking rampage that was JA. First person would be cool, because you could stare down your opponents, but you miss so muchc of the movement and acrobatics envolved.

I think perhaps it might be good when you get into a fighting distance to have a stance or mode where the mouse controls the saber movement, allowing for choice of where and how to swing.

toms
07-25-2006, 10:04 AM
The upcoming Might and Magic game is looking more like what i have in my mind for a JK/Deus Ex game. It seems to have a more soild feeling world, more weighty feeling first person melee combat, and allow the player to mix and match between melee, ranged, stealth and sniping... plus throw in some opportunities for physics related fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbWB4BIfGEs&mode=related&search=might%20and%20magic

I've no idea if it has much in the way of Deus Ex/KOTOR style dialogue, rpg elements, weapon customisation or anything else.. but simply as an action game it seems more interesting to me.
(plus it has rope arrows!! ;) )

[edit]and the multiplayer sounds pretty cool too: http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/action/darkmessiahofmightmagic/news.html?sid=6154244

JoesGuy
07-25-2006, 10:16 AM
George Lucas has not played a role in the Jedi Knight series I'm pretty sure. The only game he was involved in the creation of I believe was the Episode III game.

Even so, I've not seen Lucasarts shun away game sequels, well not to my knowledge anyway.

Fortune Hunter
07-25-2006, 01:03 PM
The one thing I couldnt stand about KOTOR was the turn based pre defined combat... I like real time, clicking action.

But as best as I can tell the so called "Force Unleashed" doesnt sound like a sequel to JO or JA, as in it isnt part of the series or story, but it looks to be in the same nature, and thats really good enough for me, if its like JA and you play the role of a Jedi (you customize) and run around with a lightsaber, and thats what I really want. If they bring back KYLE, GREAT, just give me a lightsaber (Im easily pleased)

JoesGuy
07-26-2006, 12:29 AM
Hmm Force Unleashed eh?

Could be somewhat fun if it's similar to JO and JA.

Tinny
07-26-2006, 01:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbWB4BIfGEs&mode=related&search=might%20and%20magic

Wow, nice the jk series could learn a thing or two from that.

JoesGuy
07-26-2006, 03:34 AM
They sure could :)

MeleeMaster
07-26-2006, 07:23 AM
If there is a JK4, I hope they give you melee from the start also, and not just punching but I hope you can kick and do combos and do some powerful Jedi Martial Arts moves. I want to be able to kick a** with my bare hands!

toms
07-26-2006, 08:41 AM
I'd be happy if they included melee from the start, though I'd think it would be more interesting if you started with non-lightsaber weapons.. like the knives, swords, energy swords, chain swords and cortosis blades from KOTOR.

That way you'd get the fun of the melee system from the start, but also some variation and advancement as you got better weapons and then eventually got the lightsaber.
(And what would be really cool would be if the lightsaber actually sliced through a lot of the other melee weapons, so that enemies that you'd had to fight full on before would suddenly have their blades chopped in half with your first attack. :D )

I'd want a pretty good mix of melee weapons, ranged weapons and force.. with the user free to use any combination, but maybe specialise in particular ones. Plus also the ability to customise and upgrade them.

Part of what i liked about the OT was the low tech feel of the whole thing... something the PT kind of lost. It would be cool to have bodged together balistic weapons, ancient looking sand-people style projectile weapons, overloaded and customised blaster pistols, etc.. I always wanted to have a saber in one hand, a pistol in the other and a sand person sniper rifle on my back. (though evntually you run out of mouse keys if you need an attack, a block, a fire, an alt fire and a force button ;) )

For me KOTOR much more successfully captured the FEEL of the SW OT.. and it did it with all the little details.

katanamaru
07-26-2006, 07:31 PM
As far as upgradeing weapons, I generally don't like it because the moment you get a weapon with a +1 higher you through away your old weapon even if it had sentimental value.

After years of preperation and trainning I have finally built my own lightsaber!
*sith attack academy*
"Master you have to live you still have much to teach me!"

"No it is my time, here take my saber with a +1 attack and remember all I've taught you aahhh."

"Cool pluse 1!" *throws away brand new built saber since this one is much better and I don't have the dual wield skill yet*

toms
07-27-2006, 07:12 AM
Heh.

But surely its the new weapon +1 that causes the problem, not the upgradability/customisability of the weapons. And if you take the mods off the original weapon and stick them on the new weapon then there is no problem.

Lets say that instead of the RPG weapon mechanic of constantly finding new weapons, you keep the FPS weapon mechanic of having about 10 weapons.

- Each has 4 mod slots for customisation: power, rate of fire, clip size, scope
- Each slot can be upgraded 3 times, with the 3rd one giving a special bonus.
- Mods are universal, and can be switched out whenever you are back at your ship.
- Weapons are balanced, so there are advantages and disadvantages to all..
(eg: there are situations where a pistol is better than a blaster, and so the pistol doesn't get dumped as soon as you get a blaster. For example: Blasters are horribly innacurate unless raised, which slows you down and limits your vision, but pistols can be used on the run & dual wielded, even with a saber)

In that situation you could use your mods how you wanted.. and if you got a new weapon, or decided they would work better another way then you could switch them around to experiment. Ideally the weapon models would change to show what mods were attached, to make them look more unique.

I know tht in Deus Ex i fully modded up the pistol and became very attached to it, even using it when a standard weapon might have been more effective. That was cool.

It also fits in much well witht he "bodged together" "han solo" feel of a lot of starwars. Where a lot of people seemed to have custom stuff... (han solo's overpowered blaster, the millenium falcon, boba fett's armour/weapons, kyle's custom pistol, etc..)

So it would be more like:

"No it is my time, here take this regulator from my saber and remember all I've taught you aahhh."

"Cool! with this regulator i can customise my own precious saber to make it more personal and unique and bling bling*

JoesGuy
07-27-2006, 07:13 AM
You can kick and do combos in JK3, but that still isn't great.

Tinny
07-27-2006, 07:55 PM
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/721/721019p1.html

You know, one thing I liked about red faction was the geo modding and that made red faction one of my favorite (if not favorite) fps game. If DMM is going to do what I thought was being said in the last article posted, then DMM is going to be 10x better than rf's geo mod.

MeleeMaster
07-27-2006, 08:31 PM
If the start of the game is like JA where you haven't actually been trained at the academy yet (you have to get there first) it would be realistic if you started with melee or with melee and a saber and because you haven't been trained at the academy in martial arts yet it would be realistic if you could only punch, kick and do one melee-grapple combo that doesn't involve force use. And then once you go to the academy and get trained and start doing missions you would be able to do more melee attacks and melee combos and Jedi Martial Arts moves, plus your punches and kickes would be slightly more powerful. It would be realistic. If you've seen all the Star Wars Movies and read some Star Wars books it would be obvious that Jedi are masters of martial arts and hand-to-hand combat. Heres two small examples from the books, in one Jedi Apprentice book Qui-gon gets captured by a crazy lady scientist trying to discover the secret of the force, Quigon makes a deal with her to be let out for a little while every day (atleast until the Jedi Order finds him) in return for using the force, and he is guarded by a dude with a gun whenever he is let out. The scientist lady tells the guard that even a weak and unarmed Jedi is a formidable opponet. In a Jedi Quest book where Obi Wan is training Anakin as his apprentice between Episode 1 and 2 and one time some girl (she's really a bounty hounter but you'd have to read the book to know what I'm talking about) got in his way and she kept trying to hinder him and keep him from moving forward and eventually after trying to get her to stop peacefully he got mad and grabbed her by the wrists and flipped her.

katanamaru
07-29-2006, 12:17 AM
Hey MeleeMaster have you ever played the game Oni on PS2 or PC? It was made by bungie before halo and was a 3rd person gun and melee fighting game. Pretty cool fighting; you could attack in any direction quickly or really lay the hurt down on the guy in front of you with combos. It also had throws and blocks to add to the mix. On the PS2 the controls weren't that good but if you found it now it would probley be $2-5. I prefer the pc one but it is harder to find.

If they took this style of multi-directional attacks plus JA's forward duelling attacks that would be pretty cool.

Tinny
07-29-2006, 05:09 PM
weeeee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae3fgj2x1aI&mode=related&search=), some of the new technology that will be used in the game I think.

Fortune Hunter
07-29-2006, 06:29 PM
Yep... whatever it is its gonna be sweet... I need a new great star wars game to play

MeleeMaster
07-29-2006, 10:17 PM
I didn't get to see the video because my crappy online filter blocked it, but anways, I can imagine myself with my fists up (pretending I'm playing JK4 as a Jedi), then I get swarmed by like 40 Grans, and I do some sort of super force attack sending them all flying. LOL :sbdance, my victory dance (Note:Replace the Strong Bad image with a Jedi).

Tinny
07-29-2006, 10:52 PM
Its a demonstration of the euphoria engine and how unscripted characters can react to their environment I believe.

MeleeMaster
07-30-2006, 07:23 AM
I hope in JK4 (if there is one) that you can define a script for an NPC to follow without map editing. Because in JA the only way to get an NPC to use a script is to put him in a map. It would be nice if you could define a script for the NPC to follow upon being spawned in his .npc file if you want to.

MeleeMaster
07-30-2006, 07:24 AM
I hope in JK4 (if there is one) that you can define a script for an NPC to use without map editing. Because in JA the only way to get an NPC to use a script is to put him in a map. It would be nice if you could define a script for the NPC to use upon being spawned in his .npc file if you want to.

toms
07-31-2006, 03:12 PM
I hope there are a lot of NPCs and areas actually feel like real places, not just linear levels in an FPS game where you shoot everythign that moves.

I still remember JK being about the first FPS game where there were non-combatants. Civilians who would run away, doids etc.. It wasn't done that well, and they were few and far between... but it made the places feel much more like real locations. The village at the end of the canal (the one with the sam n max house) in particular seemed very cool.

Spaceports, bars, villages, etc.. with characters you can chat and barter with would be cool. And that wouldn't attack you unless you started attacking them first. (and then they might attack or run depending on their demeanor.

Fortune Hunter
07-31-2006, 07:34 PM
Yeah some of the level in JA especially just stunk...

JO was a heck of a lot better

Dom_152
08-02-2006, 04:59 AM
JK4 Confirmed? If any of you live in the UK. Check out Channel 4 Teletext page 309. Eventually you'll see a question about a new Jedi game possibly coming out next year :)

Kurgan
08-02-2006, 12:02 PM
And if you don't have it... just wonder what it said, right? C'mon, share! ;)

Tinny
08-02-2006, 12:40 PM
Dom_152, its just a new jedi game right? Not a jedi knight game?

Dinewiz
08-02-2006, 01:40 PM
Yeah, it just says a new Jedi game, not Jedi Knight. Heres hoping though!

Dom_152
08-02-2006, 01:45 PM
Yeah just a Jedi game. Also if you have a look at some videos on the LucasArts website you can briefly see footage of what looks like a new Jedi Kngiht game.

Kurgan
08-02-2006, 02:59 PM
Wow, I'll have to check that out later. Got a direct link though?

TK-8252
08-02-2006, 03:08 PM
Yeah just a Jedi game. Also if you have a look at some videos on the LucasArts website you can briefly see footage of what looks like a new Jedi Kngiht game.

You're gonna need to give a link, because I see nothing on LucasArts that would appear as a Jedi Knight game.

Dom_152
08-02-2006, 03:13 PM
http://download.lucasarts.com/e32006/corporate_320.mov

It's a long one but there are glimpses of some Jedi action and if you look at some of the screens in the background you can see some stuff.

TK-8252
08-02-2006, 03:29 PM
I still can't find anything in that clip. Sorry to pee on your parade man, but it seems like it's just wishful thinking on your part.

toms
08-02-2006, 03:50 PM
They are just talking about Force Unleashed again.. aren't they? Which has already been mentioned in this thread.