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Rumor
08-02-2005, 07:05 PM
Ok, seeing as I need a diversion from counter strike (scrimming and stuff with my team) I decided to pick jk2 back up, and buy me a server (ff/so duels most likely, but with the option to use other gametypes). Well I encountered a dilemma, do I want to put up a jk2 server with all its goodness, or to put up a JK3 server.

just wanna poll you guys to see what you think.

some info:

i will make a site/forums to go with it
basejk2/ja until i have a special mod made for it
it will be full force/saber only 99% of the time, no powers disabled, ala the old sf, s~, g//, /<tcz servers from back in the day.
no rules, aside from no dropping and a few others.

Rumor
08-02-2005, 07:18 PM
oh and post about what you vote with reasons and stuff, :)

Lucerne
08-02-2005, 07:38 PM
:holosid:

Well personally you have a history with jk2 and its a game that you are more familiar with and will have more fun playing. However, jk2 is an old game and does not have quite the same number of players that it used to. jk3 is a crappier game than jk2 but it has more people, thus more potential for scrims and such. I personally do not know what jk3 looks like at this point but my guess is that more people play jk3 than jk2.

Most of the noobs that you used to see running around in jk2 have now upgraded to jk3 on mommy's credit card, so the average player in jk2 nowadays is more skilled than the average jk3 player. The competition in jk2 is great even though there are an extremely limited number of servers still.

Vikinor
08-02-2005, 07:58 PM
I voted JK3. Because its the only Jedi Knight game I have.

Amidala from Chop Shop
08-02-2005, 08:05 PM
If you go with http://www.escapedturkey.com, not only will you pay only $25 a month for a 26-player server with no limit on sv_maxrate, but you can install ANY or ALL of the following games, and switch between them anytime and as often as you like with a Web-based control panel:

Battlefield 2
Battlefield 1942
Battlefield Vietnam
Call of Duty
Call of Duty: United Offensive
Counter-Strike
Counter-Strike: Source
Doom 3
Doom 3 ROE
Half-Life
Half-Life 2: MP
Jedi Knight 2 (1.04)
Jedi Academy
Medal of Honor Allied Assault
Quake 2
Quake 3 Arena
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
RTCW: Enemy Territory
Soldier of Fortune 2
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2k4

As to JK2 or JA for full-Force duels, there are actually quite of few people doing FF dueling in JA, but unfortunately most of it is on g_forceregentime 0 gripkick-spam-fest JA+ servers.

Rumor
08-02-2005, 08:07 PM
thanks ami, i do want to ask you a few things, too if ya have the chance

aim - notorious ilg
msn - apockalypse@hotmail.com
icq - 76477859
irc - #imPunity on irc.gamesurge.net

real time chat > *

Sabretooth
08-03-2005, 11:23 AM
JAY-KAY THREE! JAY-KAY THREE!

*continues chanting*

Jamps
08-03-2005, 11:55 AM
You should make a JK2 server. It has a large CTF and TDM community, but very few FFA games. (It's all admin mods instead!)

We really could use a JK2 ffa server.

acdcfanbill
08-03-2005, 03:16 PM
i dont think that there will be as many hardcore players in JA for the type of server you want to put up, but maybe im wrong...

Kurgan
08-03-2005, 09:35 PM
Setup your server for JA and get RazorAce (or me) to hook you up with the latest OJP Basic.

Do not, under any circumstances support JA+ in any way shape or form!

Honestly we don't need many more dueling/sabers only servers (though having it non-honorz and non-JA+ would be a nice addition).

The only thing you'll be missing is the flip kicks. ;)

Vikinor
08-03-2005, 09:46 PM
Yeah, listen to Kurgan. They have an AWESOME server!

Rumor
08-03-2005, 10:04 PM
Setup your server for JA and get RazorAce (or me) to hook you up with the latest OJP Basic.

Do not, under any circumstances support JA+ in any way shape or form!

Honestly we don't need many more dueling/sabers only servers (though having it non-honorz and non-JA+ would be a nice addition).

The only thing you'll be missing is the flip kicks. ;)

uh kurg, have you had an aneurism? (yes i suck at spelling after a 12 hour shift, sue me :P)

i would never run any mod such as that.

Kurgan
08-03-2005, 10:39 PM
Yeah, I've spent too much time screaming at the honorz/whiner community, busted a few veins I think. :(

Also I would accuse Ami of shilling ET in order to get their referrer discount, but she's quit hosting (I'm sure I'll be forgiven for this attempt at humor).

Escaped Turkey IS good, however they have one thing of annoyance, and that's that their servers shut down (and get really laggy a few minutes before) 4:15 am CST. And after they shut down they STAY DOWN for 90 minutes unless you restart them manually.

Likewise if they crash, they stay down until you restart them manually or until 4:15 am CST (whichever comes first).

I know this isn't necessarily how everyone does it because JediServers had them automatically restart in a few minutes if it ever crashed. Maybe that's why they went out of business? Who knows. Anyway, if you can put up with the above, they're good and seem to be reasonably priced. We've gotten a lot of mileage out of the server they gave us so far, and that's about the only complaint I have.

Another good point... Do not, for the love of all that's good, use forceregentime below 200! That's ruined a lot of games, that practice of setting it low. ;P

Rumor
08-03-2005, 10:46 PM
eh a restart at 4:15 is no big. just gives me an incentive to be in bed before 4am so that i can be at work at 6:30 :)

Rad Blackrose
08-04-2005, 12:39 AM
I've already made my stance known to Rumor, thought I'd share it here.

I, personally, am leaning more towards JKII. I still think JA needs some work, even with OJP added into it (that and I need to find my discs... Where the hell did they go). Certain things in between the transition of the two games just got royally ****ed up. I'd rather have a level playing field with JKII than have to deal with the bull**** randomness of JA. LucasArts wasn't clearly thinking of saber balance when he implemented dual/dual-bladed sabers in. Not to mention that I have never been a fan of the netcode nor the faulty hit detection.

JKII has always been a stable choice in both gameplay and networking. Not to mention that the past few times I've popped in JKII, I've seen some skilled mofos playing that I'd like to butt heads with. So it would have to be my first choice.

Maybe when I find my JA discs I'll try out the latest from OJP. MBII wasn't that bad of a mod either.

Rumor
08-04-2005, 03:08 AM
gits rocks.

Amidala from Chop Shop
08-04-2005, 04:42 AM
Escaped Turkey IS good, however they have one thing of annoyance, and that's that their servers shut down (and get really laggy a few minutes before) 4:15 am CST. And after they shut down they STAY DOWN for 90 minutes unless you restart them manually.

Likewise if they crash, they stay down until you restart them manually or until 4:15 am CST (whichever comes first).



Not true.

The auto-shutdown and restart every 24 hours is strongly recommended but it can be disabled if desired. It turns out that the JA Linux dedicated server has a memory leak. The longer it runs without a restart (or crash and restart) the more memory the server uses. It runs out of the physical memory available to it and it starts using more virtual memory, which increases disk access and CPU usage. CPU usage keeps increasing until after a few days CPU-induced lag becomes unbearable.

I actually first discovered this when most of my servers were with JediServers.com. After a few days of continuous running (basejka) at some points pings would shoot up and everyone would become frozen. They could chat but couldn't\didn't move (much like what you see normally on most JA+ FFA servers [lots of chatting but no moving, but I digress]). I would have to restart the server to fix it. I figured it out by watching CPU usage on the one escapedturkey.com server I had, and they analyzed the cause.

You don't have to restart your JA server every 24 hours, but it prevents the total-server lag from occuring. The restart time can be set to occur at any time using the Web control panel, or it can be disabled if you want and enjoy lag. I believe there is a script that broadcasts to the players on the server that the server will be shutting down and restarting. As far as I know, the JK2 Linux dedicated server doesn't have the same problem.

Also, the servers are scripted to restart 15 minutes after a routine crash (not 4:15 AM).

OJP doesn't have flipkicks, and flipkicks are necessary for the type of server Rumor told me he wants to run (full-Force saber-only Duel and TFFA).

The latest (last) versions of xmod2 have improved saber-tracing and hit-detection.

If mediablitz wasn't banned he would also vote for JK2 over JA for the same reasons Rad stated.

Kurgan
08-04-2005, 12:32 PM
Not true.

The auto-shutdown and restart every 24 hours is strongly recommended but it can be disabled if desired. It turns out that the JA Linux dedicated server has a memory leak. The longer it runs without a restart (or crash and restart) the more memory the server uses. It runs out of the physical memory available to it and it starts using more virtual memory, which increases disk access and CPU usage. CPU usage keeps increasing until after a few days CPU-induced lag becomes unbearable.

I'm not sure you're quite understanding what I was saying.

I am not saying that you should never restart your server, or that auto restarts are bad. Rather an EC server, at least OUR server (a 26 man server) restarts at 4:15am CST and is down for 90 minutes. Then it starts back up again on its own. If you reboot it manually it comes back in 1-2 minutes. I know that JA Linux is loopy and crashes. But if it crashes it doesn't come back (at least that I've seen) unless you do so manually, or wait for the 4:15am reboot. Prior to the time it goes down there's numerous automatic server warnings (from the script) "restart in 3 minutes, etc".

When I say 4:15am I'm going by my computer clock. It's not an atomic clock so it may be a few minutes fast, but the point is, it has a regular down cycle every morning, not just a reboot (which would only take 2 minutes).

I actually first discovered this when most of my servers were with JediServers.com. After a few days of continuous running (basejka) at some points pings would shoot up and everyone would become frozen. They could chat but couldn't\didn't move (much like what you see normally on most JA+ FFA servers [lots of chatting but no moving, but I digress]). I would have to restart the server to fix it. I figured it out by watching CPU usage on the one escapedturkey.com server I had, and they analyzed the cause.

I know JS had auto-restart in a couple of minutes of a crash. I don't recall if they had a forced restart every 24 hours (I'm thinking you'd remember if they did or not, since you had a server longer than the 3 months I had one with them). Anyway, my point is, why can't they auto-restart their server right way, why do they have to wait 1 1/2 hours? Maybe there's a good reason for that, I don't know.

You don't have to restart your JA server every 24 hours, but it prevents the total-server lag from occuring. The restart time can be set to occur at any time using the Web control panel, or it can be disabled if you want and enjoy lag.

I got the impression this wasn't something we could modify but I'll check into the files and see if I can find this script (hey, maybe you can help me out in that regard if you like). All I would change is the down time from 90 minutes to 2 minutes like any other restart.

I believe there is a script that broadcasts to the players on the server that the server will be shutting down and restarting. As far as I know, the JK2 Linux dedicated server doesn't have the same problem.

Yeah I know about the server messages (just not where the script is located that sends them).

Also, the servers are scripted to restart 15 minutes after a routine crash (not 4:15 AM).[/quote]

I don't think the server "routinely crashes" every morning at 4:15am. I've rebooted it in the middle of the day and it still "goes down" at the same time every morning. I had all kinds of theories like perhaps EC does some routine system backup at that time or perhaps it's to save money, or maybe they calculated that this time of day is a period of high inactivity or something. Who knows. Whatever the reason it goes down like clockwork, regardless of what has happened during the day, that I've seen. Maybe our server is atypical, I can only speak from my vantage point.

OJP doesn't have flipkicks, and flipkicks are necessary for the type of server Rumor told me he wants to run (full-Force saber-only Duel and TFFA).

True, and I mentioned this. If he wants JK2 style play, the best way to do that would be to play JK2. But he asked for people's opinions, so here's I gave my 2 cents. Bugs or changes aside, I feel JA is the superior game.

The latest (last) versions of xmod2 have improved saber-tracing and hit-detection.

And unfortunately also abusive commands thrown (back) in, but I'm sure these guys aren't the type to use them anyway, so no problem there.

Xmod2 seems to be a huge improvement in some areas, though I question the wisdom of making everything customizable (damage values of weapons and such) because it then makes mastering the game virtually impossible or pointless (since it's always different). Then again, with so few xmod2 servers this may not be such a problem. Those who use it will settle on to a pattern and regulars can enjoy those settings.

If mediablitz wasn't banned he would also vote for JK2 over JA for the same reasons Rad stated.

Yeah I'm sure all the FK clan guys and their close friends would vote for JK2 if they were here, since they clearly felt JK2 was the superior game. ;)

Kurgan
08-04-2005, 12:34 PM
Maybe when I find my JA discs I'll try out the latest from OJP. MBII wasn't that bad of a mod either.

You should find yourself a new set of discs off ebay or LA.com or Amazon, and try 'em out. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You might even want to try the Enhanced OJP package since that's come a long way since it first started, though it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Amidala from Chop Shop
08-04-2005, 01:06 PM
I'm not sure you're quite understanding what I was saying.


No, I understood you.

If you look at the config file in Usermin that you use to launch your game and mod

################
# Jedi Academy #
################

server_exec="linuxjampded"
game_directory="ja"
server_mod_directory="base"
server_port="29070"
rcon_password="yourpassword"
server_log_name="games.log"
server_vm=""
server_dedicated="2"
server_ip="YOUR SERVER'S IP ADDRESS"
server_com_hunkmegs="64"
server_sv_maxclients="24"
server_logfile="2"
server_sv_pure="0"
# server_sv_punkbuster="1"
server_config1="server.cfg"
server_config2=""
restart_time="0400"
username="yourusername"


See the line restart_time="0400"? That sets the time on a 24-hour system U.S. Central Time that the server will shutdown and restart. 0400 (4AM Central Time) is the default value. You can set it to 0300 or 0500 or 2300 or whatever if you want it to happen at a different time. If you put a # in front of the line or set the value at "" (blank) the auto-shutdown is deactivated. If you prefer to manually shutdown and restart your server at different times, then deactivate the auto-shutdown-restart. But if you forget to do that for a few days and your server hasn't crashed, everyone will have 999 pings at some point.

The server is scripted to restart 15 minutes after a routine crash. The 15 minute value was selected to keep a misconfigured server from continually crashing and restarting every few minutes, which can affect the other servers running on the same box. If it doesn't restart within 15 minutes, then it wasn't a routine crash. JediServers.com was the same but less than 15 minutes, but I often had to manually restart my jediservers.com servers manually because the auto-restart didn't work, usually because there was a problem with the server configuration.

Kurgan
08-04-2005, 01:40 PM
Thanks Amidala, but that still doesn't answer my question.. why does the server tell me it will be back in 90 MINUTES (not seconds, minutes) and stay down longer than 15 minutes without a manual restart?

The next time it happens I'll get a stopwatch, but I think something is screwy here if what you say is accurate for all servers on EC.

All I want is for the server to come back faster than it's doing now, not reboot at a different time of day/night.

Amidala from Chop Shop
08-04-2005, 02:52 PM
I think the scripting for the every-24 hour shutdown and restart doesn't restart the server in 15 minutes because that's when another script compresses and archives the server's log. I haven't timed it because I wasn't usually around when it happened. You can ask Escaped Turkey how long it is scripted for, and if it can be shortened if you think it's too long. Or, you can just disable it and remember to reboot your server manually every day or two, which is what JediServers.com recommended as they didn't offer the daily routine auto-reboot scripting.

But the server should restart (if it can) 15 minutes after a (non-scheduled) crash. If it doesn't it's a problem that requires a manual restart.

Kurgan
08-04-2005, 04:34 PM
Thanks. Sorry to get off topic... I'll test it this morning to see if/when it comes back.

shukrallah
08-04-2005, 09:58 PM
JKA is the most popular game right now.

Kurgan
08-05-2005, 02:55 AM
Which could work for or against your decision... ;)

Prime
08-05-2005, 11:02 AM
Are guns out of the question?

And what about increased saber damage (especially if you go the jk3 route)?

Rumor
08-05-2005, 04:05 PM
JKA is the most popular game right now.

Popularity is not an issue. If it was, i'd just throw up a cs server.

Are guns out of the question?

And what about increased saber damage (especially if you go the jk3 route)?

Nope, they aren't out of the question.

I am not too keen about increased saber damage, unless i could control every aspect of it (ie make it a mix of 1.02 and 1.04 jk2, with the speed and damage of 1.02, and the refined controls, movement, and animations of 1.04).

I am leaning toward jk2 for the first server, but I am in contact with companies willing to donate servers, and I wouldn't mind throwing up a couple JA servers to boot. JK2's gameplay is just that much better, eh? :)

Kurgan
08-05-2005, 04:30 PM
By one vote? ;)

g_saberdamagescale 2 is identical to JK2 1.02 as far as I can tell, though I didn't do a side by side comparison, just from memory and from talking to Raven guys back in the day. The only differences really are the special move stats and the saber throw stats which everyone has already elaborated on and made mods about anyway.

-{Ion}+
08-05-2005, 08:36 PM
heya, just wanted to mention jk2 has the kix, and thats what matters ..

http://www.guzer.com/pictures/virtualkick.gif

Rumor
08-06-2005, 03:24 AM
By one vote? ;)

g_saberdamagescale 2 is identical to JK2 1.02 as far as I can tell, though I didn't do a side by side comparison, just from memory and from talking to Raven guys back in the day. The only differences really are the special move stats and the saber throw stats which everyone has already elaborated on and made mods about anyway.

yeah special moves and saber throw were my concerns

pt is a bitch when its 30 damage, and forget about 60+

shukrallah
08-06-2005, 09:46 AM
Yeah, your right. But either way you do risk the chance of having an empty server in any game. I guess if you advertise a lot it will be popular. I might even come back and play (both games will always be installed on my HD, at least for a long time)

Kurgan
08-06-2005, 03:45 PM
The way to avoid an empty server is to use bots.

I know many will probably hate me for saying this, but hear me out:

My strategy that I've used since day 1 seems to have worked pretty well.

Have some bots in the server, thus it looks "populated." This is to draw in that first person to join. They probably don't realize that the 4/8 or 8/26 is really all bots (and maybe one person.. me, spectating in some cases). But once they actually join and start playing, they are having so much fun they forget and/or don't care. And as soon as there's a person in there, the "I refuse to join unless there are actual human players in there" people will join, and then the "I refuse to join unless there are a large group of people" people join, etc. until your server is full or at least enough for a saber party. ;)

People are getting harder to fool, but with custom bots and mixing up the names we can keep up and attract people. Some may say this is dishonest, but you have to be competative. There's other servers out there vying for your players, so you've got to get the ball rolling somehow. Consider it "priming the pump."

Otherwise you're left waiting for either a very patient person to run around a map alone waiting for others, or a couple of people to randomly join simultaneously (either all patient people who coincidentally decided to join at the same time, or who arranged to meet in the server prior).

OJP makes this process much easier, but I would suggest a custom bots pack, such as DDS-IBots (though it's for JA, you might be able to convert it).

The DDS (Darth Dude Studios) website is linked off their mod (which is found at lucasfiles.com) and you can check out their Botmaker program (for JK2 and JA) etc. I made about 9 custom bots I used on my server before I started using OJP (and I still have them for variety's sake).

Rumor
08-08-2005, 06:01 PM
Well, for the time being the server is set up for jk2, as a lot more people wanted that.

I can switch it around sometimes when I learn how to manage and configure it more easily and efficiently.

had a lot of old school players on it, and we've had a great bunch of DM's (ffa) and duels going on, and a large ammount of server traffic.

I'm still working on configuring it, as Escaped Turkey's management system is rather nebulous.

It will be running a variety of gametypes, pretty much all at request (duel, dm, tdm, ctf, etc.)

Drop by and have some fun fragging and **** talking :)

Info: 67.15.17.84:28070 The Second Comming - Cataclysm

and yes, i know comming should be coming, i am just too lazy to change it.

/edit: oh yeah, forgot teh linkz0r http://jk2.teamimpunity.com

I have also put up a 50 slot ventrilo (version 2.3.0) for people to use while they play. feel free to hop on any time.

IP: NewYork.NationVoice.com Port: 3819 no pass

DSbr-MBZ
08-09-2005, 08:03 AM
that rphotrod is such a newb, he's going to ban me again for calling him gay I bet. What an over-sensitive sissy boy. JK2 is 100x better than jka. And while I was in FK, I am now team captain of DSbr (teamdsbr.net), which means very little since nobody has the balls to play us except for clueless saber newbie clans that we trick into scrims. If you don't realize that JKA truly is the retarded little brother of jk2 then you need to accept that you are a clueless nap.

-soon to be banned mediablitz- (looks like RP is already censoring me off the board, he has deleted both of my threads regarding JA+ being a stupid mod, what a bitter sissy nap, oh no I hurt your e-feelings)

DSbr-MBZ
08-09-2005, 08:07 AM
oh...the jk2 pug server is ^2pick^7up^2games^7-^2ctf|89ms|69.64.50.195:28070

if you suck stay in spec. password is ctfpug. For an example of the leetness that goes on there, here is a brief practice session between myself and JaX, the god of defense. http://www.teamdsbr.net/jax/mediavjax_practice.dm_16
type cg_thirdperson 1 in console before watching this awe inspiring demo from my pov featuring my revolutionary rocket jump tactics

DruggedSith
08-09-2005, 08:23 AM
So anti JA+ sentiment gets wiped out here too? Just make slider a moderator.

RpTheHotrod
08-09-2005, 08:40 AM
It had nothing to do with JA+ arguements. It had to do with how much hate the thread was generating. If you havn't noticed, this is LucasForums. It has nothing to do with JA+ There are still rules to abide by. People were asked and warned to keep it nice. They did not do that, and in turn, the thread was locked.


Now, please stay on the subject of the thread.

Zappa_0
08-09-2005, 11:18 PM
Hmmm im kinda looking for JO to pull a JK, since JK released and everybody went to MotS and then back to JK. So I kinda see JO/JA the same way, but I could be wrong, JA has alot to offer. I voted for JA btw, since that is what I play.

McCusto
08-09-2005, 11:31 PM
JK3 for me, I never really did like JK2 :/

Igor_Cavkov
08-10-2005, 08:04 AM
jk3! =)

Prime
08-10-2005, 10:19 AM
JK3 for me, I never really did like JK2 :/Why is that? They don't seem to be extremely different to me...

acdcfanbill
08-10-2005, 10:28 PM
they seem quite different to me :s

DruggedSith
08-10-2005, 11:20 PM
But similar....