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Prime
07-20-2005, 12:16 AM
For those who are interested, someone has posted a summary and review of the new post-NJO novel. Note that spoilers abound. You can read it all here. (http://p098.ezboard.com/funjoefrm90.showMessage?topicID=27.topic)

I am still hoping that I will like the post-NJO world, but this blurb has me worried:

Views of the Force are different now, and it is no longer a sin to use anger as a means to an end, as long as that end is a good one. Kyp has always used anger as a means to an end, so it's not surprising for him to do so, but characters who have traditionally been calm and collected are now using their anger for power--characters such as Luke and Corran.

I know that this is just som nobody's review, but WTF?? Are they just trying to go the exact opposite direction of the films? Are they all going to be usning Force Lightning and gripping people all in the name of Peace, Freedom, and Love? Someone who reads the book quickly will have to tell me if this is all true. Sigh

Jeff
07-20-2005, 12:57 AM
That definately doesn't sound right. Using anger for the light side? Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Obviously anger is a path to the dark side. That novel is messed up, or the reviewer stinks at making reviews.

Astrotoy7
07-20-2005, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by Prime
... Are they just trying to go the exact opposite direction of the films? Sigh

I havent read the Joiner King but I will definitely throw up if the book tries to 'recapture the films' The films are that exactly... Initial EU rehashed the films over amd over.... it was time to move on...

Prime, seriously, avoid some disappointment in life and just avoid reading any SW lit from now on :D

mtfbwya

Prime
07-20-2005, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
I havent read the Joiner King but I will definitely throw up if the book tries to 'recapture the films' The films are that exactly... Initial EU rehashed the films over amd over.... it was time to move on... But why is using the film and pre-NJO model of the Force a rehash? That's like saying using movie characters is a rehash. Shouldn't the EU try to build on the films and earlier EU, and not try to contradict it? Why do new stories have to alter how the universe works to be fresh? Villians and heros can be changed to move to new story archs. Should hyperdrives, lightsabers, blasters, be traded in for warp drive, swords, and shotguns? Why aren't they rehashes of the films as well? :D

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Prime, seriously, avoid some disappointment in life and just avoid reading any SW lit from now on :D I really want to enjoy the post-NJO EU, and the I'm trying to give it a clean slate for these novels. I want to have stories about my childhood heroes. I plan on reading this book and giving it a fair chance.

But if it does turn out as the summary claims and that Luke and Co. use anger to gain power in the Force and everything is fine, then yes, I will skip the the Dark Nest trilogy as well. I'm just not interested in books where the main plot points sirectly contradict the established canon of the saga. It just cheapens the films, IMO, and makes Anakin's fall make no sense. If everyone can use anger and the dark side powers (I know, there is no dark side), then why couldn't Anakin and Dooku do all the things they did and stay good guys, and in Anakin's case, save Padme?

But you know where I stand on NJO philosophies. :) And I'm not trying to say the writing is bad or that people shouldn't enjoy them. I'm just hoping that the Force debates don't lead to the undoing of what has been an established part of the story for the past few decades.

And for the record, I have enjoyed that vast majority of pre-NJO EU that I have read. So I will continue to read SW lit, since there is a lot more to it than just The NJO and post-NJO. ;)

Astrotoy7
07-22-2005, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by Prime
...Anakin's fall make no sense. If everyone can use anger and the dark side powers (I know, there is no dark side), then why couldn't Anakin and Dooku do all the things they did and stay good guys, and in Anakin's case, save Padme?
...

Anakins fall had less to do with the dark side than it did with his character flaws, you know that :) Everything Sidious told him about using the dark side was a carrot to lure him to become his apprentice. Its the bad traits in Anakin that the sith philosophy(anger, fear, agression) fits far more comfortably.

At the end of the day, Luke, Leia and Solo twins just have their heads screwed on better than Anakin ever did... Remember ROTJ, Luke gets angry, charges at Vader, cuts him down... the emperor orders Luke to kill him.... Luke throws his saber away saying he'll never give in to the dark side... THIS exactly is the difference betweenanakin and his son.... so, in that instance, Luke used his anger to get the edge, was that wrong ??

Its already been done in EU before, in the Dark Empire series, Luke uses the dark side to ally himself with the clone emperor(to eventually destroy him)...

even in JA, when you visit Vjun, Kyle Katarn doesnt mind using force lightning on the odd stormie/reborn :D

So, dark side powers aint that bad, its how/why are used that counts....

Please also consider that the Jedi have fallen by the end of ROTS. Clinging to their stale old ways, they are confused about prophecies and cannot detect the sith right under their nose. You can hardly expect Luke to strive to recreate the old order. He doesnt, he moulds his teachings to fit *current* events and political alignments, all the while trying to stay committed to the force and what being a jedi is all about....

Also consider Prime, that things in any world CHANGE. Change is good, in fact its awesome. What sucks is stagnation. Institutions also change, eg. the catholic church no longer burns you at the stake for being interested in astronomy etc.... What is so special about the SW universe that its tenets are immutable to change ??

* * *

Prime, what I am really looking forward to is your characteristic lamenting when the TV series comes out, "OMG itz TREK because the characters talk to each other rather than just shoot/fight/dodge/yell/kiss.."
:p

Dont throw your VCR away Prime, those old VHS tapes you have of the "original-original trilogy" may be your only link back to your true childhood heroes :violin:

*cmon old fella, give us a hug*

mtfbwya

Prime
07-22-2005, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Anakins fall had less to do with the dark side than it did with his character flaws, you know that :) Everything Sidious told him about using the dark side was a carrot to lure him to become his apprentice. Its the bad traits in Anakin that the sith philosophy(anger, fear, agression) fits far more comfortably. All Anakin wants is power, or so says Lucas (I know, Lucas doesn't know what he's talking about nor does it matter what he says :) ). He says on the ATOC DVD that the dark side of the force is in fact stronger than the light side, and that the key to Anakin's fall is that only the dark side can give him that power. But there is a price to pay.

What you're saying is true about Palpatine luring Anakin to be his apprentice. But since Anakin has good intentions for the entire film (want's to save his wife, wants to protect his friend and mentor, wants to protect the Republic, wants to destroy the Jedi because he believes they are evil) he should have been the same person at the end of the film, and not evil. But I think you are saying there is no evil anyway. I mean, what are good intentions? It is all a matter of point of view, as Anakin says. Be he does in fact become evil in the end.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
At the end of the day, Luke, Leia and Solo twins just have their heads screwed on better than Anakin ever did... Remember ROTJ, Luke gets angry, charges at Vader, cuts him down... the emperor orders Luke to kill him.... Luke throws his saber away saying he'll never give in to the dark side... THIS exactly is the difference betweenanakin and his son.... so, in that instance, Luke used his anger to get the edge, was that wrong ?? According to the creator of the saga, yes. The two trilogies are done in a way that both father and son face many of the same choices. In the end Vader chose to go the dark side, and Luke turned away and went back to the light. If it really didn't matter whether he used anger or not while wielding the Force, Luke would have have just gone right on getting really pissed and force choked and chopped up his dad, then chopped up and choked the Emperor, and everything would have been fine. He'd be the same good guy at the end that he always was.

And it wouldn't make any sense for the Emperor to try so hard to get Luke to strike him in anger. If doing so would have no affect on Luke, there would be no point in getting him to do so. Since killing the Emperor would be such a good deed, surely Luke would have been just in doing so. So why would the Emperor use that line of thinking to bring him under his sway? If there is no dark side, Luke is never in any real danger. If the Emperor just needed to convince Luke to become his new apprentice, using anger would never come up. He would have likely just trying to convince him to kill vader because he is evil and done all sorts of horrible things, and that the Empire is a just and secure society. But he doesn't. The entire time is spent trying to get Luke to use and feed off his anger.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
even in JA, when you visit Vjun, Kyle Katarn doesnt mind using force lightning on the odd stormie/reborn :D He doesn't us it in my game, that leads to the dark side! :D

As a side note, Force Lightning is a Sith specific power according to Lucas. But that doesn't matter in the game sense for sure.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
So, dark side powers aint that bad, its how/why are used that counts.... Again, not according to the creator. But regardless, who decides what is a good way to use them? What does that mean exactly?

A case can be made for the justice of just about any action. If I use the Force to destroy a planet that has Hitler on it, is that bad? What if it is just a town? Is there a line where destroying a certain number of innocents goes from acceptable to unacceptable? Who decides if a person is evil or not? Can they be killed with the Force if they are? If they are not? Who decides who is evil? Was Anakin being good when he destroyed the Jedi Order because they were evil? They were going to take over the Republic and assassinate the Emperor. Wasn't eliminating them a just cause?

I'm just saying that just about everyone does things for reasons which they think are right. So that means that everyone should be able to do whatever they want with the Force and remain who they are. That included destroying planets and killing millions, if they feel the end justifies the means.

That was one reason why I found Shatterpoint to be quite enjoyable. It went into the dark side and length and showed that because of the above the dark side is so tempting and it is easy to succomb to it.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Please also consider that the Jedi have fallen by the end of ROTS. Clinging to their stale old ways, they are confused about prophecies and cannot detect the sith right under their nose. You can hardly expect Luke to strive to recreate the old order. He doesnt, he moulds his teachings to fit *current* events and political alignments, all the while trying to stay committed to the force and what being a jedi is all about.... I have no problem with there being change and learning from past mistakes. The OR Jedi Order was flawed in many ways, including (like some would say of the Catholic church) focusing more on the dogma and rules than the meaning and purpose behind them. I have no problem with Luke establishing a new order that is much more liberal in regards to emotions and love and things of that nature. I'm fine with him taking older youngsters for training. I'm fine with teaching that anger itself is not evil and being mad sometimes will not cause you to fall to the dark side. I'm even fine with altering the views of the Force, as long as it does not contradict in the long run what has already been established, especially by the films. I am open to change and progression in the story.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Also consider Prime, that things in any world CHANGE. Change is good, in fact its awesome. What sucks is stagnation. Institutions also change, eg. the catholic church no longer burns you at the stake for being interested in astronomy etc.... What is so special about the SW universe that its tenets are immutable to change ?? The above example is a good one. The Catholic church no longer burning people at the stake for interest in science is a change in the rules governing how it operates. It does not change the basis of the beliefs on which the faith is based. I'm arguing that the new model of the Force is akin to the Catholic Church saying, "We used to believe in God governing what is good and Satan governing what is evil. Now we think that they are in fact the same guy and he doesn't care how the hell you act. Feel free to steal and murder if you think it is a good idea." I think you'll agree that a lot of Catholics would take issue with this sort of change in preaching.

Again, I'm fine with change, if it makes sense in terms of the context and established rules of the universe. I'm fine with the majority of changes that Luke has implemented in the Jedi order, and I think most are a good progression story wise. Change is fine, but it still needs to fit into the universe.

I just don't think that completely altering the Force and saying that all the theories and methods relating to it in the past, films and EU alike, are flat out wrong is required to keep the ongoing Star Wars EU fresh and entertaining.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Prime, what I am really looking forward to is your characteristic lamenting when the TV series comes out, "OMG itz TREK because the characters talk to each other rather than just shoot/fight/dodge/yell/kiss.."
:p I have no problem with talking, thus my love for the KOTOR series and LOTR books and things like that. Hopefully the discussions in the new books will be entertaining as well.

And I'm looking forward to your characteristic lamenting when the TV series comes out, "OMG itz using the old stale viewz of teh Force and doesn't line up with teh NJO! Don't those Jedi no they can all get pissed off and zap all dem stormies with teh just Force Lightning and freedom choke?" :p

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
Dont throw your VCR away Prime, those old VHS tapes you have of the "original-original trilogy" may be your only link back to your true childhood heroes :violin: I'll enjoy my DVDs, including the changes in there, thanks. :) I've never had an issue with the prequels or updated films. In fact, I prefer them. But you knew that before.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
*cmon old fella, give us a hug* Come on man, we are friends. I'm not trying to insult you for your views. I'm only trying to show you why I have mine and disagree with some of the directions the new era EU is taking in regards to the Force. I think it is a good debate, and I like dabating with you. So please don't try and attack me personally. But I know you don't really mean to do so. :)

Astrotoy7
07-23-2005, 01:27 AM
wow. cool post Primeski. In the EU forum there are never any flamewars, just considered debate, like we are exactly doing :D

THIS, was hilarious tho :
If I use the Force to destroy a planet that has Hitler on it, is that bad?

It reminded me of that cool scene from Clerks, about the needless deaths of the contractors on the Death Star :D

I am really looking forward to the TV series. It is just impossible to emulate 'movie style' pacing into what will be *100* hours of television(over 4 years). The *only* thing attempted in the SW universe that is remotely similar is the NJO, as 21 book story arc :)

It also depends on the writers of course. They havent been announced and GLs role isnt entirely clear apart from being moreso involved at the start and then backing away. One thing that would be cool is if some of the more notable EU authors were involved in some of the storylines.. eg. Luceno, Stover, Stackpole, Anderson, Zahn etc

who knows...

mtfbwya

Prime
07-23-2005, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
wow. cool post Primeski. In the EU forum there are never any flamewars, just considered debate, like we are exactly doing :D That's why I come here. :)


Originally posted by Astrotoy7
It reminded me of that cool scene from Clerks, about the needless deaths of the contractors on the Death Star :D Definitely. That is a great scene in a great film. I guess that is the same as my argument. Crap! Now I've lost the seriousness of my example! :D

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
I am really looking forward to the TV series. It is just impossible to emulate 'movie style' pacing into what will be *100* hours of television(over 4 years). The *only* thing attempted in the SW universe that is remotely similar is the NJO, as 21 book story arc :) The thing I'll be interested in seeing is whether it will really be one long story arc like 24, much more episodic like Star Trek, or somewhere in between.

Originally posted by Astrotoy7
It also depends on the writers of course. They havent been announced and GLs role isnt entirely clear apart from being moreso involved at the start and then backing away. One thing that would be cool is if some of the more notable EU authors were involved in some of the storylines.. eg. Luceno, Stover, Stackpole, Anderson, Zahn etc I'm not a fan of KJA, but the other ones would be good. But I suspect that they won't use any of the novel writers since it is a different medium and no doubt Lucas has his own "crew" in mind. But who knows. Does any of those guys have TV writing credits? Can you imagine the outcry if KJA is the head writer? :D

Jan Gaarni
07-23-2005, 07:51 PM
Just a small querry that hit me seeing Andersons initial which I just have to get cleared up for my own sake: Didn't KJA ghostwrite ANH for GL? (the novel of course :p )

I seem to recall this.

Astrotoy7
07-24-2005, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by Jan Gaarni
Just a small querry that hit me seeing Andersons initial which I just have to get cleared up for my own sake: Didn't KJA ghostwrite ANH for GL? (the novel of course :p )

I seem to recall this.

sorry Jan, but after careful googling, this is not the case, but definitely a fanboy rumour that I too have heard. KJA actually had his first book published in 1988...

here's a decent interview
linkage (http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~lightsabre/andersoninterview.htm)

When novels are ghostwritten they usually appear with a nom de plume or with the collaborative authors name.

I have the 1978 ANH novel, which is simply called "Star Wars - From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker" inside it says, "A Novel by George Lucas" The prologue is awesome, and gives a very broad summary of what we saw in the prequel trilogy(The rise of the empire)

"Aided and abetted by restless, power hungry individuals, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the people and to restore the glory of the Republic....etc

This prologue is quoted as an extract of the "Journal of the Whills"

see pic below(excuse poor quality, I just took it on my phone 30secs ago :) )

mtfbwya

Astrotoy7
07-26-2005, 11:45 AM
Sorry for the double postage, but I had to put this up here for the people that doubted Prime's warning about the Dark Nest Trilogy being about use of dark side powers... The cover of the thrid book has recently been revealed, showing Luke in the act of some palpy style zappin :p

IMO = awesome :D

Im really looking forward to reading about how/why Luke makes his decision. In EU especially, he's *never* been one to make decisions lightly....

Prime
07-26-2005, 01:50 PM
I'm still hoping that it will all come full circle and in the end there will be a balance of philosophies...

lil_dude
07-26-2005, 02:10 PM
There should be nothing wrong with using anger and hate to get an edge in combat if you can controll it and keep from going to the dark side, look at Mace Windu, he used the dark side to fight with a lightsaber and he was amazing at it. Yet when it came down to it he was wise, kind and calm.

Jeff
07-26-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by lil_dude
There should be nothing wrong with using anger and hate to get an edge in combat if you can controll it and keep from going to the dark side, look at Mace Windu, he used the dark side to fight with a lightsaber and he was amazing at it. Yet when it came down to it he was wise, kind and calm.
He didn't use the Dark side, he just tapped into his anger, but was strong enough in the light side to resist the dark side.

Prime
07-26-2005, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by lil_dude
There should be nothing wrong with using anger and hate to get an edge in combat if you can controll it and keep from going to the dark side, look at Mace Windu, he used the dark side to fight with a lightsaber and he was amazing at it. Yet when it came down to it he was wise, kind and calm. I think the philosphy now is that there is no dark side or light side.

But I'm starting to think that in the end those will return in some form. :)

Astrotoy7
07-27-2005, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Prime
I think the philosphy now is that there is no dark side or light side.

But I'm starting to think that in the end those will return in some form. :)

By the end of the NJO there wasnt really a consensus on that. It was definitey what Vergere had imparted to Jacen and Luke. Although Jacen seemed more in tune with the "unifying force" outlook, Luke was still at odds with it. I think the events of these upcoming books somewhat deals with Luke having to face this question. Which will be an interesting read :)

mtfbwya

Prime
08-03-2005, 03:07 PM
http://www.randomhouse.com/author/results.pperl?authorid=6868&view=fromauthor

Enjoy.

Astrotoy7
08-04-2005, 08:26 AM
I have combined Prime's Joiner King Threads into one which will be reserved for discussion for any and all of the Dark Nest Novels. Stickied it for quick access and to prevent multiple threads about similar topic :)

Enjoy !

*resists clicking link to Troy Denning interview*

Prime, is it spoilerific ? Since its random houses site, I am guessing no...

mtfbwya

Prime
08-04-2005, 03:48 PM
Only in the general sense...

swphreak
10-09-2005, 02:33 AM
Yeah, I just recently realized this was released. I've been reading other books... Dune, Ender's series, Bean's series, ect.

I'm up to about chapter 10 or so, and it's different. I think it's kinda fast paced, but I may just be used to non-Star Wars style books. I also doubt NJO haters will like this book.

We'll see what happens as I finish the book.

Astrotoy7
10-10-2005, 12:31 PM
....I also doubt NJO haters will like this book....

I can concur... I have been saying for a *very long* time now that SW EU has evolved. The NJO wasnt all about the Yuuzhan Vong, it was about THE JEDI (thats why its called the "New Jedi Order" series!!)

For those wanting movie formula characters and novels, those days have passed. Try the comics and prequel era novels for that type of fix :)

As far as the jedi philosophy goes....like all philosophies, they are always in a state of examination and change... I personally like that. I like reading how other force practitioners(Fallanassi, Dathomiri) have also expressed a reluctance towards the new philosophy... it just makes the discussion feel a bit more 'real' (for want of a better term)

mtfbwya

swphreak
10-10-2005, 08:19 PM
I like the new Jacen, and Queen Mother Tenel Ka owns.

I also wonder if I'd have taken to the book as fast as I did if I never read the Ender series (the Hive Queen). All the stuff with the Killiks... is strange.

Prime
10-11-2005, 12:35 PM
I also doubt NJO haters will like this book.On the contrary, it appears from TJK and TUQ that they are starting to go back to the more traditional view of things, and starting to show the consequences that others have discovered about the old Potentium philosophies, as well as the Jedi's place in the galaxy. Most of us "NJO haters" have been pleased with the direction these books are heading. The new Jedi ways are starting to result in some less than desireable consequences. Personally, I think it would be great for future stories if they continue to turn Jacen into an evil character. I think ultimately they are just discovering for themselves what the ancient Jedi to millenia to learn, and can create their own rules based on that instead of just what the OJO said they should do.

We'll have to see how it all turns out...

swphreak
10-11-2005, 10:49 PM
And I just finished Dark Nest 1, and just got back from the store with Dark nest 2. Had to keep reading. I kinda wanted to see more Jacen... but I believe he has a bigger part in book 2. The Chiss involvement is pretty cool as well.

I'd give Joiner King 4/5.

Master_Keralys
10-12-2005, 11:55 PM
Ha! At long last, I return! And holy cow have things changed around here... very different look and feel these days.

Dark Nest is probably my favorite thing to happen to the EU since the NJO ended. It's been a blast to get going, though I haven't had a chance to pick up TUQ yet - I'm looking forward to doing so immensely. Most particularly, I'm curious to see how the Jedi, most particularly Luke, continue to deal with the new view of the Force. It's a fascinating debate, and I honestly am of the opinion that there is going to be some reconciliation of the new view with the old.

That Jacen is seemingly so close to the edge of the dark side (particularly from what I've heard of TUQ spoilers) is, IMO, further evidence of this - it's going to push Luke and the rest of the Jedi back in the right direction.

More to come later, when I'm not so blasted busy!

- Keralys

Prime
10-13-2005, 11:40 AM
That Jacen is seemingly so close to the edge of the dark side (particularly from what I've heard of TUQ spoilers) is, IMO, further evidence of this - it's going to push Luke and the rest of the Jedi back in the right direction.Plus, there are so many parallels between Jacen and Anakin Skywalker that it is hard to believe it is coincidence...

swphreak
11-10-2005, 11:33 AM
Hmmm forgot to post after DN2. I like how Jacen got a bigger part that last book, and how he's so close to the "Dark Side." I found myself not wanting to put the book down. Can't wait for the next one.

I'd give Dark Nest 2 a 4/5.

Prime
11-10-2005, 02:29 PM
I'm about a third of the way through. I'll comment when I am finished. :)

Darth_Terros
11-22-2005, 02:29 PM
Ok im being lazy and cant be arsed to read the books so i got the audiobooks

So yeah anyway i've just been listening to the first one and um well the Ewok is bugging me i dunno its just not sitting right with me theres tons of other species they could've chosen for that role an ewok with a death mark just seems a bit silly.

Astrotoy7
11-23-2005, 07:43 AM
Ok im being lazy and cant be arsed to read the books so i got the audiobooks

So yeah anyway i've just been listening to the first one and um well the Ewok is bugging me i dunno its just not sitting right with me theres tons of other species they could've chosen for that role an ewok with a death mark just seems a bit silly.


Im not sure how it comes across in the audiobooks, but reading it, I think that character is freakin awesome ! The idea of an ewok with attitude is just hilarious :D

mtfbwya

Darth_Terros
11-23-2005, 12:30 PM
Im not sure how it comes across in the audiobooks, but reading it, I think that character is freakin awesome ! The idea of an ewok with attitude is just hilarious :D

mtfbwya

Um it comes across very silly like some sort of bizarro star wars universe ... wait isnt that all the EU set after ROTJ?

in all fairness im enjoying this series far more than the NJO which i hated! but im still not loving it and it still has along way to go before it feels even remotely star wars to me personally

swphreak
11-23-2005, 01:15 PM
I'm guessing someone hasn't read certain Rogue Squadron books. Dark Nest 3 on Dec 27!

Darth_Terros
11-24-2005, 12:47 PM
Oooh i got to a bit of saber action it was quite good and exciting but the story so far just seems a bit meh its not really sucked me in at all

Prime
11-24-2005, 01:09 PM
Um it comes across very silly like some sort of bizarro star wars universeYeah, I think Tarfang is kind of silly.

Emperor Devon
11-25-2005, 02:22 AM
Hmm. I'm skeptical, but I might try it.

Darth_Terros
11-26-2005, 08:53 AM
I really just want to smack the annoying brat that is Ben Skywalker!! I find him more irratating than Young Anakin Skywalker.

Hopefully he'll fall into a sarlaac!*but then knowing the EU he'd probably escape*.

Astrotoy7
11-27-2005, 09:38 AM
I dont see Ben as that annoying... the fact that he seems to be scared of the force makes him sorta interesting IMO. I was dreading another young whiz-kid like anakin and the twins when they were younger :(

mtfbwya

swphreak
11-27-2005, 12:16 PM
Oh yes, a little kid being annoying. OH NOES!

Yeah, he's fine by me. He's a kid. I just want to see more Jacen/Tenel Ka stuff.

Prime
12-16-2005, 02:03 PM
For those interested in spoilers from the Swarm War...

http://p098.ezboard.com/funjoefrm81.showMessage?topicID=121.topic

One thing that, if true, will go a long way to rectifying some controversial aspects of the NJO. Personally, all I can say is w00t!! :)

Luke finally rejects Jacen's view of the Force. While he says it may work for Jacen, Luke does not believe in the Potentium and states that the Jedi will return to their old view of the Force.

Darth_Terros
12-16-2005, 02:21 PM
For those interested in spoilers from the Swarm War...

http://p098.ezboard.com/funjoefrm81.showMessage?topicID=121.topic

One thing that, if true, will go a long way to rectifying some controversial aspects of the NJO. Personally, all I can say is w00t!! :)

Luke finally rejects Jacen's view of the Force. While he says it may work for Jacen, Luke does not believe in the Potentium and states that the Jedi will return to their old view of the Force.



Woo Star Wars EU finally heading the right direction! im personally looking forward to the the LOTF series the only post-rotj jedi series to have gotten me excited!

Astrotoy7
12-17-2005, 11:00 AM
hehe... "OMG LUKE FIXES THE NJOz" :p

No need to spoiler tag that IMO... that much seems obvious.... Luke and his arcane potentium(that word again) is akin to the Catholic Church in the Dark Ages, denouncing anything that doesnt agree with his established law, and that his view of things is the absolute and correct one...

what Astro waits to see: Jacen to start his own academy...maybe we will see something like this in this in LOTF

The jedi's restricted views led to their near demise within the space of one generation... its greatest master having to hide like a rat near a swamp... perhaps if the jedi were not as narrow-minded anakin would never have been so likely to be swayed by the sith...

w00t for Jacen.... anyone who hasn't read "Traitor" or "The Unifying Force" wont get a true of idea of why jacen is the way he is in the post NJO books....

still, Ive read recent interviews with Sue Rostoni about this very subject and..........nah, I'll save it for later :p

mtfbwya

Prime
12-19-2005, 09:32 AM
No need to spoiler tag that IMO... that much seems obvious.... Luke and his arcane potentium(that word again) is akin to the Catholic Church in the Dark Ages, denouncing anything that doesnt agree with his established law, and that his view of things is the absolute and correct one...But he only denounces it after he sees first hand what it results in with regard to the Jedi order. The potentium theory has to some extent lead towards a Jedi civil war. And considering Jacen's actions and goals in Unseen Queen, I don't think Luke would want anyone following that path.

what Astro waits to see: Jacen to start his own academy...maybe we will see something like this in this in LOTFRight now it looks like Jacen might be set up to be the the villian in that series. He would be a good one I think, and something different.

The jedi's restricted views led to their near demise within the space of one generation... its greatest master having to hide like a rat near a swamp... perhaps if the jedi were not as narrow-minded anakin would never have been so likely to be swayed by the sith... But Anakin didn't follow the rules of the Jedi, that was part of the problem. I'm not saying the Jedi are free of responsiblility, but Anakin went his own way against the advice of others except Palpatine. It is not as if Anakin strictly followed the Jedi's rules and fell. I think ultimately Yoda was right. He was too old to begin the training, and we see why that "rule" was in place.

w00t for Jacen.... anyone who hasn't read "Traitor" or "The Unifying Force" wont get a true of idea of why jacen is the way he is in the post NJO books....I think it is pretty clear why he is what he is from what is explained in this series. We understand his reasons for wanting genocide and using the Force to damage peoples' minds. The books are showing what problems arise from his philosphy.

But like I say, he would make a really good villian for TUF.

Astrotoy7
12-21-2005, 11:38 AM
Interesting stuff Primeski. Jacen for me is easily the most interesting character in EU in the last 5 years... If only Vergere could speak to him in the Force, like Obi did with Luke.. she was one awesome bird lady :p

mtfbwya

Foshjedi2004
01-02-2006, 01:31 PM
She Was A Fosh

Prime
01-02-2006, 09:32 PM
She Was A FoshIs that what the F in KFC stands for? :)

Foshjedi2004
01-03-2006, 10:00 AM
No KFC Stands for Kandified Freaky Chocolate

master_skywalke
01-03-2006, 10:46 AM
Is that what the F in KFC stands for? :)
Kentucky Fried Chicken :p

Astrotoy7
01-04-2006, 09:59 AM
OK kids. Youve had your fun with Chicken.... Now back on topic !

* * *

I dunno...Im nearing the end of TJK(Finally) Theres been some very interesting things, but Jaina is starting to grate....

and the whole shadow academy dark jedi plot....bleh ! You cant expect characters who appeared in the Young Jedi Knights Novels to amount to anything good, IMO :(

Im hoping TUQ is better... damn those freakin ants....why cant they rebuild darksaber and arm it with a giant flyspray superlaser :p that'll fixem !

mtfbwya

Prime
01-05-2006, 02:39 PM
Wait until you read The Swarm War...

Luke ....for the win!

[/Astro Edit]Primeski, Ive just added tags as spoilerific things can be inferred from that ! having not read it yet, I didnt know that was going to happen in the Swarm War.... :violin: Im assuming you are saying Luke duels Jacen and Luke kicks his a$$ ???

mtfbwya

Foshjedi2004
01-05-2006, 03:08 PM
I wanted Jacen to end the War.....

A Small Penguin
01-09-2006, 01:00 AM
If Jacen ever has a kid, he/she and Ben skywalker should team up

[Astro Edit] tinkering to reduce spoilerisation.

Foshjedi2004
01-09-2006, 06:11 AM
Jacen has a daughter called Allana

[/Astro Edit]...Ive tinkered to not make it as revealing. Be mindful of spoilers !

Astrotoy7
01-09-2006, 09:06 AM
When they are older Jacen's kid and Ben skywalker should team up

what wouldve been good was if Jacen and Vergere did some freaky man-birdlady lovin.... their offspring wouldve been hella kicka$$ :p

mtfbwya

Foshjedi2004
01-12-2006, 05:25 PM
:crybaby:

Thats not a pretty image!!

*Shudder*

swphreak
01-15-2006, 02:23 PM
Yeah... anywho, I finally finished the trilogy. It was good overall, but it felt like the author was rushing to end the book, but that's just me. I can't wait for more post-NJO books.

Foshjedi2004
01-16-2006, 05:32 AM
They kinda finished the entire of the Swarm war off in like 5 or 6 pages. There really wasn't much of a final battle between Luke and the Queen

ANGRY EDIT: grr.....Thanks for revealing the ending Fosh :( Next time use damn spoiler tags

like this

[spoiler] xxxx [/spolier] (2nd one misspelt to illustrate)

mtfbwya

The Source
01-24-2006, 05:15 PM
For those who are interested, someone has posted a summary and review of the new post-NJO novel. Note that spoilers abound. You can read it all here. (http://p098.ezboard.com/funjoefrm90.showMessage?topicID=27.topic)

I am still hoping that I will like the post-NJO world, but this blurb has me worried:

Views of the Force are different now, and it is no longer a sin to use anger as a means to an end, as long as that end is a good one. Kyp has always used anger as a means to an end, so it's not surprising for him to do so, but characters who have traditionally been calm and collected are now using their anger for power--characters such as Luke and Corran.

I know that this is just som nobody's review, but WTF?? Are they just trying to go the exact opposite direction of the films? Are they all going to be usning Force Lightning and gripping people all in the name of Peace, Freedom, and Love? Someone who reads the book quickly will have to tell me if this is all true. Sigh
I am not a fan of the "New Jedi Order'. I own only two books from the 'NJO' series. After I read the introduction, of one of the books, I could not read any more pages. This morning, I thought it would be intresting to read the 'Dark Nest' series, so I bought all three of them. From what I gather is that, the Jedi now walk a narrow line between light and dark. In order for them to use Force Lightening, they have to somehow control their anger. Up until four to five years ago, Luke was the only Jedi that sucessfully converted from the lightside to darkside to lightside. If he found a way to use Force Lightening without falling completly to the darkside, then I welcome the chance to see how he fears. Remember, Mara was never really a Dark Jedi or Sith. She had the potential to become a darksider, but she never fully made the convert. Revan's cannon is a lightside male; therefore, Luke could very well be the most sucessful Jedi yet. If this series brings us back to the original Star Wars feeling, I welcome the chance to read an intresting storyline. The "NJO' was too far away from what Star Wars is, and I could not tolerate reading more than the intorduction. I think this series could bring us back to what Star Wars is really about... I could be wrong, but if that reviewer is right, I welcome the experience...

People may have forgotten about what it means to experience the original Star Wars... This could be their chance to remember...

Foshjedi2004
01-27-2006, 04:25 PM
Legacy of the Force is meant to have the return of some Sith I think.

MachineCult
01-27-2006, 05:31 PM
Great, more EU going against the movies. I wonder how they'll have the Sith return with the two last Sith having being killed.

The Source
01-27-2006, 07:31 PM
Great, more EU going against the movies. I wonder how they'll have the Sith return with the two last Sith having being killed.
The Dark Nest series is my first step into the 'NJO' world. I have no desire in reading the whol 'NJO', but I am going to read the last book.

I know what you mean about, "EU going against the movies". Even though I am reading this series, I will probally only accept it as 'NJO' cannon. I will not consider it as solid cannon.

When it comes to the Sith, I think there needs to be other types of villians. Most of my novels cover Boba Fett and Mara Jade. When it comes to Jedi and Sith, I think too much of a good thing is bad..

MachineCult
01-27-2006, 08:28 PM
When it comes to the Sith, I think there needs to be other types of villians. Most of my novels cover Boba Fett and Mara Jade. When it comes to Jedi and Sith, I think too much of a good thing is bad..
I don't understand what you're saying, I doubt you're saying that Mara Jade and Fett are Sith so i'll just say, there aren't any EU Sith during or after the movies because they are extinct.

The Source
01-27-2006, 09:50 PM
I don't understand what you're saying, I doubt you're saying that Mara Jade and Fett are Sith so i'll just say, there aren't any EU Sith during or after the movies because they are extinct.
What I am trying to say is that there are a lot of Sith villans. I have read Sith stories in EU, but I mostly read about nonSith characters.. I believe that too much of a good thing, too many stories about Sith and Jedi, could end up being a bad thing. Otherwords, people will just get tired of reading about the Sith or Jedi. Before the 'NJO', most of the EU was covering non-Jedi and non-Sith stories. Not necessarily because of the 'NJO', but in combination with other sotries, EU is now over runned by 'Jedi/Sith' this... Jedi/Sith that...

Astrotoy7
01-28-2006, 12:10 AM
....EU is now over runned by 'Jedi/Sith' this... Jedi/Sith that...

This is mostly because the majority of EU has been set in Old Republic Era or Clone Wars. If you've kept your peepers peeled, there has been some stuff that focuses on others like the progress of young Fett.

It was an inevitability that EU post ROTJ had to address the question of what happens to the jedi order since Luke was the only one left.

For many years the EU was about the Imperial Remnant, with their stupid superweapons, clone emperors, military masterminds, royal guardsman with extraordinary abilities and self proclaimed warlords. The Bounty Hunters have been covered exhaustively in "Tales" novels, and the Bounty Hunter Wars series....


Basically, all the material that could be gleaned from OT characters and concepts has been. If all EU became was a re-hashing of movie formula storylines then SW EU wouldnt exist. The modern era of EU has been going strong for 16 years, and still has a few years left in it yet. Im sure once the TV series comes out, that may generate some new material as well :)

If LOTF deals with Sith Characters, I hope its done in a way that wont make it sound less plausible. eg, if someone finds a sith holocron or manages to communicate with an established old sith lord, that might be easier to swallow. Coming up with a new Sith Lord out nowhere would suck, IMO. I'd rather the jedi have a full blown civil war than resurrect old sith lords anyway :)

mtfbwya

MachineCult
01-28-2006, 08:55 AM
MacLeodCorp, there are not alot of Sith villans, there are Dark Jedi but there are few Sith in the EU because post Bane there were only two at any one time and they didn't do anything, and post movies they were extinct.

Astrotoy7
01-28-2006, 09:30 AM
MacLeodCorp, there are not alot of Sith villans, there are Dark Jedi but there are few Sith in the EU because post Bane there were only two at any one time and they didn't do anything, and post movies they were extinct.

This is correct.

sounds like Macleod needs to be schooled re- the sith.

Ive copy'n'pasted this from a post I made in another area:

90% of sith lords have only been revealed in EU.

Of the republic era sith lords, there are only
*Bane
*Zannah
> > > hasnt been elaborated if there were any between here. *Millenial excluded from this line as he worked outside the rule of Two)
*Plagueis
*Sidious
*Maul
*Tyranus
*Vader

Pre Darth Bane, it is a hodge podge of Dark Side force users, enslaved aliens and armies which are led by these dark side force user : these all bear the name "sith" throughout various Old republic Era comics and the KOTOR games. If it wasnt for Bane, the sith wouldnt have existed long enough for sidious to dominate the galaxy. Also dont forget, the character of Darth Bane is a creation of George Lucas', not some fanboy at Bioware or DarkHorse comix :p

mtfbwya

The Source
01-29-2006, 05:13 PM
This type of study is one of useless knowledge. I read novels and books because they are entertaining. I thank god that I don't know everything about Star Wars. When knowing about Star Wars gets me a $100,000 a year job, then I will pay a lot more attention to the details.

Astrotoy7
01-30-2006, 07:50 AM
This type of study is one of useless knowledge. I read novels and books because they are entertaining. I thank god that I don't know everything about Star Wars. When knowing about Star Wars gets me a $100,000 a year job, then I will pay a lot more attention to the details.

lolz@Batman.

If the "details" of SW dont interest you then its probably a bad idea to hang around in the EU forum !! Expanded universe implies extra detail ;)

Anyway, this is a thread about Dark Nest - lets get back on topic !

mtfbwya

Darth_Terros
08-15-2006, 01:59 AM
Maybe this thread should be unstuck now see as the dark nest series has been and gone for awhile?

Davinq
08-16-2006, 09:58 PM
And so has NJO Terros, but it isn't unstuck for the sake of new readers like me; I'm getting DN trilogy next week.

Darth_Terros
08-17-2006, 02:09 AM
And so has NJO Terros, but it isn't unstuck for the sake of new readers like me; I'm getting DN trilogy next week.

but thats like saying there should be a sticky for the jedi academy trilogy or the thrawn trilogy just because some people might not have read them.

it just clutters up the Eu forum with threads hardly anyone uses any more.

Prime
08-17-2006, 02:59 PM
Well, since there are hardly ever any new threads, I don't see how things are getting more cluttered. :)

Davinq
08-21-2006, 01:39 PM
but thats like saying there should be a sticky for the jedi academy trilogy or the thrawn trilogy just because some people might not have read them.

it just clutters up the Eu forum with threads hardly anyone uses any more.
Heh, ever notice it's just the newer book series' that are "cluttering up" the forum?

The Source
08-24-2006, 08:05 PM
^^^^
I created a thread for Timothy Zahn. Eventhough it is not a sticky, there is still a thread for his older novels.

I bought the 'Dark Nest' Trilogy when it first came out, but I never got around to read them. I have been scanning over this thread to see what is up. I am not a NJO follower.

If I have never read an NJO book in my life, would that series be necessary for me to enjoy this one?