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View Full Version : A possible new morality system


Manny C
08-18-2005, 03:50 AM
I think kotor 2 was onto something with the "light" "dark" and "neutral".

i think something similar to that idea, but perhaps in 3 different morality bars:

a type of "jedi code" one that determines how much you adhere to the jedi code. Doing things that are giving in to your passions or going against the jedi code would make you lose points in this, and it shouldnt necessarily be things that are "evil". And it would go up if you exhibit control. For example, if this system was in the first kotor, during the romance with bastila, by not pursuing it and accepting that it isnt allowed you would gain points, pursuing it would lose you points. Or a situation where you have to make a choice between something that furthers your mission and something you care about, such as the torture scene in kotor 1, or like in episode 2 when padme falls out of the dropship.

And then a standard morality bar, being compassionate, kind, generous, etc shifts it up, being selfish doing things that consciously lead people to harm, being evil shifts it down.

And perhaps even a third, "corruption" bar. Commiting truly evil deeds such as murder or things that consciously lead to someone's death or ruin could influence this, and using the dark side of the force would influence this too.


I think with this system, you could make it far more complex and give a much greater sense of depth, even if it would need some tweaking. By doing it like this, your morality and choices could have a much bigger impact on the game.

the "jedi code" bar would reflect how much control you have, and could influence how characters react to you, for example certain jedi masters impressed by your level of control could reward you with teachings or an item or something. It could also affect how easily you are corrupted (ie, the lower your jedi code points, the more corruption points you gain from various actions).

The "corruption" bar would give far more depth to the dark side. As it is atm, the dark side system really is pretty crappy. neither of the games really reflects the idea of temptation and corruption. In the movies and alot of expanded universe, simply using the darkside corrupts you, and as yoda says, "once you are down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" while it neednt be THAT absolute, having a "corruption" bar could definately implement this idea into the game. drawing on dark side of the force would increase your corruption bar. Now this would need some working out, because if you were corrupted every time u used one of the darkside forcepowers the way the game is now, everyone would be sidious pretty quickly. It could be gaining a darkside power in a level up, or taking the force into yourself to become more powerful. Corruption could affect your dialogue choices, and also your appearance, which would make getting deformed a much better system. Through this system, you would become more deformed the more powerful in the darkside you become, not just if you like being nasty.

This system would also make it much harder to become light again once you are evil, which is supposed to be very hard.

This could open up a limitless amount of modifiers, interesting situations, tension between characters, pros and cons to all positions. For example, someone who is neither corrupted nor follows the jedi code has far more freedom than most jedi, but is far more suseptible to the trappings of the dark side, and drawing on it will corrupt him fairly easily. on the other hand, a jedi who follows the jedi code strictly would have a better affinity to the force, and all sorts of other rewards could come into play, but he would have to be fairly emotionally cold to maintain this. On the opposite end of the scale, a corrupted jedi would be very powerful, but his mind would be twisted and evil, and dialogue options would reflect this. He would also be deformed, which could have more affect than simply looking different, NPC's could react differently, some people would be too afraid to talk to you and wounds could take longer to heal, etc.

Ztalker
08-18-2005, 05:22 AM
I agree. The Dark-side option in KOTOR 1 where a bit buly-like, and weak. The true Dark-siders should have insane talk-options, maybe spontaniously choking someone, as a answer on the primarely light-sided affect-mind. Also, the Jedi who follow the Code strictly, should have less romance options, becasue those options see there is no chance. Agreed?

Prime
08-18-2005, 10:13 AM
the Jedi who follow the Code strictly, should have less romance options, becasue those options see there is no chance. Agreed?But in the Old Republic era there were less restrictions regarding Jedi marriage and love...

stingerhs
08-18-2005, 10:20 AM
But in the Old Republic era there were less restrictions regarding Jedi marriage and love...well, at least that's the impression the games give us. first, Bastila refuses Revan, citing the restrictions, but later gives in despite them. that's not exactly a 'strict' representation.

granted, you didn't even have this stuff in Kotor II....

MdKnightR
08-18-2005, 12:21 PM
I agree that something should be done. The few times that I have played a Darkside character, it seemed that most of the dialog options were petty and thugish. Certainly not ambitious and full of destiny. I know that Darkside characters are prone to cruelty, but there is a difference between being a common street thug and being another Mussolini.

Darth333
08-18-2005, 01:50 PM
I don't think adding more "morality" bars would be a good thing. Perhaps if Kotor was a huge RPG less story driven with hundreds of hours of gameplay like morrowind per example. But Kotor games are relatively short and I believe this could just be too heavy and would remove any opportunity to change alignment.


However, I do agree that the current system needs to be reviewed but I rather see it in terms of dialogue and storyline options. I am a bit tired to steal for "lunch credits " as Redhawke would say. I think it would be better to have options to corrupt party members like in K1 when you could convince Mission that his brother was not worth more than bantha fodder more or less (too bad she could not be turned to the DS).

I hate the "Give me 25 credits or I kill you" options. A Dark Lord shouldn't even bother with this. Even more, those options cut every possibility to continue the dialogue and gather information. When I play an evil character I am pursuing a certain end, such as controlling the galaxy. Converting is better than killing IMHO: what good is it to be DS when there is no one left around? There should be more strategic options. They could use "lying" options more often too.

RedHawke
08-18-2005, 11:54 PM
^^^^
I'm with Darth333 on this one! :D Obviously!

Everything she said is spot-on to what I would like to see. :emperor:

Hallucination
08-19-2005, 01:10 AM
Aye, D333 has once again spoken with her great wisdom, but how about they make it so you can be Mr.Kill-kill-never-stop whos killing for a more lightside purpose? Like kill or enslaving 5 refugees for the exchange but the rest of the refugees are freed, 'cause who doesn't wanna kill everyone in sight and go home feeling like you made a difference in the world?

Manny C
08-19-2005, 02:45 AM
I agree with you for the most part 333, but corruption in general needs to be addressed further. Using the darkside at all is supposed to have consequence and my idea incorporates that, as well as the visual effects of corruption. magically turning your eyes yellow and your skin white and rotten because you took someone's money is stupid, and some other way to determine your visual corruption needs to be looked at imo.

TheOssusKeeper
08-19-2005, 02:47 AM
I'm with Darth333 on this one also... ;)

Prime
08-19-2005, 12:10 PM
well, at least that's the impression the games give us. first, Bastila refuses Revan, citing the restrictions, but later gives in despite them. that's not exactly a 'strict' representation.The KOTOR comics and other EU stories that existed beforehand and upon which the games are based had such things many years before the games came out...

JediWatchman
08-21-2005, 03:31 PM
first, Bastila refuses Revan, citing the restrictions, but later gives in despite them.
Bastila refused me, but she never gave in. I guess once she refused me, I never really flirted with her much again because I figured she was right about giving into my emotions.

Soogz
08-21-2005, 04:37 PM
Yes, I to believe that something should be done about this, more drastic darkside options.

Lightsider
08-21-2005, 05:05 PM
I have basically only played light side, but agree that the dark side should have more options. Anakin turned to the dark side because of love and wanting to protect it, why not make the dark side options more like that. The only person Revan Got to choke was that Czerka officer in the cantina on Tatooine to show his power. I would personally like to play as a grey Jedi like Jolee.

Jeff
08-21-2005, 05:30 PM
I would personally like to play as a grey Jedi like Jolee.
Which brings up an interesting question: Will they make it so people can play as neutral Jedi and still win? You couldn't in K1 or 2...

witchfinder
08-21-2005, 05:42 PM
Indeed.. I'm not sure how they would accomplish it though. I'm thinking the ending would be somewhat anticlimactic.

Emperor Devon
08-21-2005, 08:54 PM
I agree with Darth33.

You should be able to go around slaughtering everyone in your path, or you should be able to lie, manipulate, and eventually, dominate everyone... (I prefer the second option.)

Just no more of this "Give me your credits" junk. While some of the "stealing" dialogue made sense, (such as stealing the wraid plate from that one woman so she'd be trapped and doomed to starve) I thought it was overdone.

I should not have to modify dialogue to feel like a Sith Lord rather than some common mercenary scumbag.

Ztalker
08-22-2005, 05:43 AM
Also, if TSl featured options of inocent bloodshed, the evilo-ness is being undone by Kreia getting mad at you, and Atton acting stupid.
Kreia is blaming ME of slaughtering innocent? WHO was the evil Sith lord here!?

Darth333
08-22-2005, 02:24 PM
I don't mind if they add the possibility to kill more npcs but I want a purpose!
I hate playing a psychotic character. Killing innocent just to kill innocent is just plain dumb. As Kreia would say, you should look at the consequences. There must be some purpose, strategy and intelligence behind the actions, otherwise it's not evilness but mental retardation...

I'd like more options to manipulate other characters and to be able to inspire some fear when playing a DS character . I'm not against a few options to force choke some npcs that piss you off without killing them either.

MonCalamaerosta
08-23-2005, 03:36 AM
I really like the idea of having those options adressed, as far as new bars go, I don't know, but there should definately continue to be a sense of force strength that goes beyond the jedi and sith codes like Kreia addressed in 2. One thing that definately needs to happen, as someone said, i didn't look at the name, but the dark side options need to be expanded to bring evil full circle. We need the opportunity to be a Sidious as well as some goofy Dooku. We need the chance to manipulate people and crush them without slicing them into little pieces. Along the lines of deception, we need more opportunities to use our power to toy with people, like on Nar Shadaa when you could use Force Persuasion to make the thug throw himself off into the pit. A dark jedi would have a twisted sense of humor like that, and would love to abuse their powers that way. Basically, more trickiness and fewer options that put some helpless civilian into combat mode so that you can take his five credits and his medpac.

Ztalker
08-24-2005, 06:19 AM
Also, it should effect partymembers how you act.
For example: If you threaten a member, others with the same alignment will fear you, too.
In kotor 2 if just shouted the hell out of Kreia, and nobody cares! (Would make sense, but isn't realistic) It would be more realistic that Atton would flip out, since Kreia and him are the longest in your party.
Something like: "Are you gonna insult me, too? You owe me big time, EX-jedi!"

SITHSLAYER133
08-25-2005, 07:06 PM
I don't mind if they add the possibility to kill more npcs but I want a purpose!
I hate playing a psychotic character. Killing innocent just to kill innocent is just plain dumb. As Kreia would say, you should look at the consequences. There must be some purpose, strategy and intelligence behind the actions, otherwise it's not evilness but mental retardation...

I'd like more options to manipulate other characters and to be able to inspire some fear when playing a DS character . I'm not against a few options to force choke some npcs that piss you off without killing them either.



you go darth333