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Darth Tyrant
08-18-2005, 05:08 PM
Probably someone already ask this, but Is the super star destroyer going to be included in empire at war?, also, are they going to include other types of tie fighters like the tie defender or the tie phantom?

Thrawn
08-18-2005, 05:44 PM
I haven't heard, nor have I seen any screenshots of those things. However, LA is keeping a lot of the game under wraps, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the entire line up of Imperial Fighters. A SSD might be a little too hard, but hey, I'm sure they'll be an expansion pack.

Darth Tyrant
08-18-2005, 09:13 PM
Oh come on now. The SSD to hard, but they gave us the Death star?, Also dont forget that they gave the rebels the Bulkwalk Battlecruiser, which is a new republic capital ship

starmark2k
08-19-2005, 02:59 PM
I'm taking the opposite opinion from thraw. I think the will have the SSD but not the huge range of ties

lukeiamyourdad
08-20-2005, 01:09 AM
How can they not have the mighty Super Star Destroyer?

It would be ridiculous to include unknown ships while leaving out one who's well known by every fan.

FroZticles
08-20-2005, 04:23 AM
Who cares..... I don't see how there could be balance in a game when one side has uber Super Star Destroyers and a Death Star. Death Star is a game ender and thats if its available in online and skirmishes.

Why do you need a SSD when you got the Death Star anyways.....

lonepadawan
08-20-2005, 09:49 AM
Well I'd rather have a super star destroyer than an infinite number of rubbishy EU TIE variations... lets face it.. the DS is more of a campaign map/super weapon thingy than a powerful weapon useable in an ordinary battle.. they have different functions... DS blows up planets (we have yet to see it blow up capital ships) SSD blows up other ships... I'd imagine it'd be hugely expensive etc too.

FroZticles
08-20-2005, 10:34 AM
Remember we are not playing the original saga we are playing between the prequals and the originals so the SSD doesn't have to be in it.

Darth Andrew
08-20-2005, 11:33 AM
True, but then why are A-wings in the game? I think the A-wing came to the Rebels after the Battle of Yavin.

Jan Gaarni
08-20-2005, 11:43 AM
I thought this game starts 2 years before ANH?

Or have they changed the timeline for it?

Darth Tyrant
08-20-2005, 11:50 AM
Remember we are not playing the original saga we are playing between the prequals and the originals so the SSD doesn't have to be in it.
Then why they create the bulkwalk battle cruiser for the rebels. That capital ship was created when the new republic was form.

Darth Tyrant
08-20-2005, 11:52 AM
Who cares..... I don't see how there could be balance in a game when one side has uber Super Star Destroyers and a Death Star. Death Star is a game ender and thats if its available in online and skirmishes.

Why do you need a SSD when you got the Death Star anyways.....
The Bulkwalk battle cruiser is the competition for the SSD.

Darth Tyrant
08-20-2005, 11:55 AM
Lets face it people, with out the SSD is not going to be the same, that's Vaders capital ship and the simbol of the empire. If they can create the bulkwalk battle cruiser which its out of time line, they can create the SSD.

lukeiamyourdad
08-20-2005, 04:25 PM
Lets face it people, with out the SSD is not going to be the same, that's Vaders capital ship and the simbol of the empire.

I fully agree. The SSD is an integral part of the Empire. It wouldn't be the same without it.

And who's saying we can spam them? I'd expect the Super Star Destroyers to be really expensive. Also, I read somewhere that SSDs weren't very effective at anything, being too large and too slow. A single Star Destroyer can accomplish more then an SSD. It's more like a prestige weapon made to put fear into the hearts of the Rebels.

lonepadawan
08-20-2005, 06:59 PM
Yes. It may be able to dish out a lot of firepower.. but should be easy to outrun and take down if it has no support.

FroZticles
08-20-2005, 08:27 PM
Then why you need a SSD in a campaign to wipe out the Rebel supply lines? Seems like the Rebels have a few bases around the galaxy and the Empire are wiping them out before New Hope starts. Maybe thats why they don't use it because a SD can do more then the SSD....

lukeiamyourdad
08-20-2005, 10:12 PM
Then why you need a SSD in a campaign to wipe out the Rebel supply lines? Seems like the Rebels have a few bases around the galaxy and the Empire are wiping them out before New Hope starts. Maybe thats why they don't use it because a SD can do more then the SSD....

Then why did the Empire make it? Why did Hitler make prestige weapons when he could've churned out more Panzer IV's instead?

It was a race to make the ultimate weapon. The SSD represents both a step in that direction and a great achievement for the Empire.

It sounds like you assume that there's no technology tree. No SSD will be in-game at the very beginning of the game. It's like giving the Empire a Death Star from the beginning.
The SSD would probably come in late game as a prestige weapon and flagship for the Imperial Navy. Some sort of hero unit.

Darth Tyrant
08-21-2005, 01:53 PM
Then why you need a SSD in a campaign to wipe out the Rebel supply lines? Seems like the Rebels have a few bases around the galaxy and the Empire are wiping them out before New Hope starts. Maybe thats why they don't use it because a SD can do more then the SSD....

Like I said before, the SSD is an icon and simbol of the superiority of the empire. It has great firepower, but without any support it will be easy to destroy. The SSD is vader flag ship, it's what represent the opresion of the empire. To be more accurate it's the command ship of the entire imperial fleet, without the SSD the imperial fleet looks like lost. Remember in empire strikes back, when the imperial fleet was forming and then you see this huge command ship leading them, thats what the SSD means, power. I will not feel right using the empire if I cant have a command ship leading my fleet, it's not like you are going to create big huge numbers of the SSD, but atleast create one that leads the entire fleet.

FroZticles
08-21-2005, 03:11 PM
Also, I read somewhere that SSDs weren't very effective at anything, being too large and too slow. A single Star Destroyer can accomplish more then an SSD. It's more like a prestige weapon made to put fear into the hearts of the Rebels.

Why would they use something that is large and slow? They need to make swift advances onto the Rebels before they can retreat or rally a counter attack. Actually the Death Star is the true power of the Empire not the SSD. I'm sure the Imperial fleets can manage without the SSD. :)

Jan Gaarni
08-21-2005, 06:47 PM
Lets face it people, with out the SSD is not going to be the same, that's Vaders capital ship and the simbol of the empire. If they can create the bulkwalk battle cruiser which its out of time line, they can create the SSD.
Neither is completelly out of timeline.

As I said earlier, the game starts a couple of years before ANH.

lukeiamyourdad
08-21-2005, 10:46 PM
Why would they use something that is large and slow? They need to make swift advances onto the Rebels before they can retreat or rally a counter attack. Actually the Death Star is the true power of the Empire not the SSD. I'm sure the Imperial fleets can manage without the SSD. :)

So did the Japanese fleet without the Yamato or the Musashi or the german one without the Bismarck.
It's a prestige weapon, one to show the power of the Empire. By the time it was made, it was probably the largest space battleship ever made. On a space battlefield, it would certainly inspire a lot of fear in the hearts of the enemy.
So sure, they have a Death Star, which is also a symbol, but the Death Star doesn't have the same function as an SSD.
It's like saying KingTiger had the same function as a V2 rocket.

Also, by your definition of Imperial strategy, we wouldn't even use ISD. Victory-Class Star Destroyers are faster, let's use those. But wait, Strike Cruisers are faster then VSDs! Let's use those only instead!
What about the AT-AT? Hey, too slow, let's use AT-STs only which are faster. But that's too slow either! Let's only use speeder bikes!

lonepadawan
08-22-2005, 07:32 AM
Tarkin Doctrine, rule through fear of force, rather than force itself. The SSD fits that bill perfectly.

Darth Alec
08-22-2005, 10:27 AM
Its also a fact that neither the AT-AT or the Super Star Destroyer are the best battle weapons they could have made. They represent something important in the Imperial mind, its a showoff weapon that also can dish out huge damage. I'd rather have a SSD than an upgraded Star Destroyer as the most powefull thing in the force and therefoer being a capital ship.

FroZticles
08-22-2005, 12:43 PM
Luke we are not talking about Japan, Hitler or Dumbeldore's wizard army.

Its set a couple years before ANH so it may not even be completed... if they did not add it I'm sure there is a reason.

lukeiamyourdad
08-22-2005, 12:52 PM
Luke we are not talking about Japan, Hitler or Dumbeldore's wizard army.

No, we're talking about a prestige weapon that isn't as effective as its smaller more versatile counterpart.

Its set a couple years before ANH so it may not even be completed... if they did not add it I'm sure there is a reason.

It starts a couple of years before ANH.

I'm sure you must oppose the inclusion of the AT-AT too since we don't see it until ESB. What about the A-Wing? And the Calamari Cruisers? As far as we know, the Rebels might have none of those ships in their possession until after ESB.
Besides, there is no confirmation of it's inclusion or exclusion.

Jan Gaarni
08-22-2005, 01:47 PM
A-Wings came into play shortly before or shortly after ANH.
Calamary Cruisers already exist as passanger liners/cruiseships. But they may not have been upgraded into warships yet.
Not sure when the AT-AT came into play.

FroZticles
08-22-2005, 09:42 PM
Luke I'm not the one who is all about realism here if you need it so badly why don't you post it up like Windu does with needed prequel civs and don't forget to remind us of what you need to play the game every chance you get.

lukeiamyourdad
08-22-2005, 09:51 PM
You're not making much sense anymore.

First off, unlike Windu, the Super Star Destroyer could be included. This isn't something that's utterly unrealistic as the prequel civs have been openly excluded.

You cannot say that it isn't be included, but I cannot say that it is. The Super Star Destroyer has yet to be confirmed.

You've been arguing about whether its inclusion was good or bad. Obviously, you've considered it a bad idea and I, a good one.
Your first argument was overpowering the Empire, which was disproved since a big fleet of ISD could do more then a single SSD.
Then, you talked about its uses, which you consider not good enough to do anything, which was disproved since it serves a purpose of flagship, prestige weapon and inspires fear.

Now you end in a hole, with no argument left but flaming.

The Saint
08-23-2005, 12:07 AM
By the Battle of Hoth there are at least 4 Executor(Super) Star Destroyers already built and counting. Now the developers in the past have said you're going to cover the span of the Galactic Civil War, I can only think they mean moviewise. Which if thats the case then we shall see the Super Star Destroyers. I'm already glad they showed the Victory SD which seems to be the bastard child of all of Star Wars..not once do you see one in the Clone Wars even though they are supposed to make their role prominent there..oh well..if they can include the Victory, if they can include different armor types for Stormtroopers depending on the planet then lets have confidence that Petro will include SSDs and B-wings.

FroZticles
08-23-2005, 05:36 AM
I didn't say not to include it I was just arguing for the sake of it.... and you have still not shown me its uses because prestige does not exist in RTS games unless you count some kind of buff or whatever.

Darth Alec
08-23-2005, 10:25 AM
Its not only a prestige weapon. It is capabel of massive destruction and being just very scary. Many games have super weapons like nukes and other things, wich are hard hitters and low numbers. They are a sort of ultimate power and are not to be underestimated. If it wasent why would the Empire build them if they were so ineficent?

general ackbar
08-23-2005, 05:36 PM
SSD is a must

Garbageben
08-23-2005, 07:52 PM
Lets face it people, with out the SSD is not going to be the same, that's Vaders capital ship and the simbol of the empire. If they can create the bulkwalk battle cruiser which its out of time line, they can create the SSD.
That's the second or third time you've said that the one ship is a bulwark cruiser. According to screenshots what you're referring to is actually the Mark 2 Assault Frigate.

lukeiamyourdad
08-23-2005, 07:58 PM
I didn't say not to include it I was just arguing for the sake of it.... and you have still not shown me its uses because prestige does not exist in RTS games unless you count some kind of buff or whatever.

Geee...wake up for a minute. I did mention it inspired fear in the hearts of enemies. Could it mean that the SSD would have an impact on morale?

Besides, like Alec said, it's not useless in combat.

You forget that an ISD is more useful and efficient at doing certain tasks. Take one ISD and make it fight against an SSD and we both know how it would turn out.
An ISD has the advantage of being better for the control and patrol of Imperial areas due to increased speed, maneuvrability and lower production cost. Regional moffs would prefer to have a few ISD instead of having a big SSD.

Darth Tyrant
08-23-2005, 10:54 PM
That's the second or third time you've said that the one ship is a bulwark cruiser. According to screenshots what you're referring to is actually the Mark 2 Assault Frigate.
That's the one, in star wars rebellion his name is bulkwalk battle cruiser.

general ackbar
08-24-2005, 01:45 AM
theres really no reason for it not to be added.....

Darth Tyrant
08-24-2005, 03:27 AM
Why would they use something that is large and slow? They need to make swift advances onto the Rebels before they can retreat or rally a counter attack. Actually the Death Star is the true power of the Empire not the SSD. I'm sure the Imperial fleets can manage without the SSD. :)

I didnt say the SSD was the true power of the Empire, what I said was that the SSD is the simbol of the Empire and most of all of the imperial navy. the death star cant lead a fleet, because its first and foremost a space station, designed with two objectives: 1) To support the imperial fleet. 2) To maintain all system in imperial control.

On the other hand the SSD is the capital ship that leads the imperial navy. Vader, Piett, Pellaeon, Daala, they all use SSD's to lead the imperial navy; Hell even Wedge antilles use a SSD against the Yuzan Vong on the novels.

It will be not a crime not to include the SSD in this game. Many of you think that it's not a good idea to include it, you know why?, because you are thinking on the size, but remember what master yoda said, Size matter not. Besides the bigger the size the harder the fall.

Im not saying that they should put the SSD as a regular star destroyer and make lots of SSD's around. They should put it like a special ship once that you can create once you reach at some point in the game and that you can be able to create one at a time, so it can serve the objective of leading the imperial fleet.

FroZticles
08-25-2005, 02:21 PM
Obviously there is a reason not to add it because its not there...

Darth Alec
08-25-2005, 04:16 PM
Its still awhile to release and we dont know everything yet. If the listen to complains they will probebly add it. Also its huge and needs lots of careful programing.

general ackbar
08-25-2005, 04:53 PM
Obviously there is a reason not to add it because its not there...


i doubt we have been shown all the units yet.

Darth Tyrant
08-26-2005, 01:21 AM
Its still awhile to release and we dont know everything yet. If the listen to complains they will probebly add it. Also its huge and needs lots of careful programing.

I have to agree with that.