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View Full Version : What is wrong with Petrogylph's Ship designers?


Darth Windu
08-24-2005, 06:04 AM
Gotta say, I loved the C&C series but I am rather concerned about EaW, primarily due to the utterly pathetic and un-StarWarsy ships we are getting. Two examples of what I mean are here-

http://www.empireatwar.net/fall2005/gallery/screenshots/space/august05/exclusive/5.jpg

First off, you have a Rebel ship that looks like there was crash between an Escort Frigate and Mon Cal Cruiser, with the mechanics putting together various pieces of each until it vagely resembled a Starship.
Then, you get the 'Republic Hover Tank in Space' ship for the Imperials, in the same screenshot.

What is wrong with these people? The canon ships seem to have been done very well, but these new ships that seem to have been created just for EaW are horrible, and I think something needs to be done about it.

Thoughts?

starmark2k
08-24-2005, 06:40 AM
Personally i think the Broadside Looks extreamly "starwarsey", as it has all the look of an empires ship. As for the 'Hybrid' ship i think that shows he rebels for what they are having to adapt ship to settle their needs.

Jan Gaarni
08-24-2005, 07:48 AM
I don't really see a big need for the Broadside Frigate (God, I hope that's just a temperary name, or just a nickname :D ), as the missile systems on the Star Destroyers should be more than adequet in my opinion.

DarthMaulUK
08-24-2005, 08:00 AM
With rebellion you needed a counter and this is probably it.

DMUK

lutalica
08-24-2005, 08:53 AM
Well as far as i can see Broadside starship looks very similar to the starship that appeared in star wars comics as a starfighter carrier -> text is available here (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html#carrier1) and following picture :

Picture (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/marvel/gielcarrier.jpg)


I like the design very much looks like a cross between ISD and Escort carrier.... purely offensive assault ship :)

Garbageben
08-24-2005, 11:28 AM
Also in one of the screens it shows the weird rebel ship and it is the mark II assault frigate. I wonder why they went with a mkII and not have the original one in too...

Nevets1112
08-24-2005, 11:29 AM
It is also similar in design to the Imperial Decimator:

http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/images/jtl/ships/vt49.jpg

jokemaster
08-24-2005, 12:22 PM
I don't really see a big need for the Broadside Frigate (God, I hope that's just a temperary name, or just a nickname :D )
When I read that name the first thing that came to mind: You couldn't hit the Broad side of a Broadside frigate with a sniper rifle.

OverlordAngelus
08-24-2005, 02:40 PM
I personally think they should stick to existing ship designs, just look at Rebellion and X-Wing Alliance, they both have a large number of different ships.

Also, the Starfighter Carrier appeared in the Droids cartoon too.

lutalica
08-24-2005, 02:54 PM
I think they named the ship Broadside so it would indicate the class (RN currently operates several Broadsword class frigates - my point is Broadside and Broadsword they sound very alike, but again this is just guessing :) ) :)

I wonder if they place some of the heavy cruiser designs (Vengeance, Titan and such) :) Of course this is just high hopes 'cause i don't think that a game with such great number of different vessels would be well balanced (for this sort of RTS)..... but again maybe this would be the first game to achieve just that :)

aaahh, just can't wait for this game (looks at the calender)...

Nevets1112
08-24-2005, 03:59 PM
I think they named the ship Broadside so it would indicate the class (RN currently operates several Broadsword class frigates - my point is Broadside and Broadsword they sound very alike, but again this is just guessing :) ) :)

I wonder if they place some of the heavy cruiser designs (Vengeance, Titan and such) :) Of course this is just high hopes 'cause i don't think that a game with such great number of different vessels would be well balanced (for this sort of RTS)..... but again maybe this would be the first game to achieve just that :)

aaahh, just can't wait for this game (looks at the calender)...

That is kind of the point tho, Imperials and Rebels aren't suppose to be balanced completely. And that would be kind of boring if they were the exact same thing like the factions in SWGB.

DoctorNerve
08-24-2005, 06:23 PM
You do realise that Lucas Licensing doesn't let just any ship design happen. It gets reviewed by them and Petro then finds out what is allowed in the game. Lucas Licensing reviews this stuff to make sure it fits the lore and style of SW.

DK_Viceroy
08-24-2005, 07:59 PM
they should have used some EU designs at least they are starwarsy and look the part and don't bother bringing in that hell ridden Purism > Truism argument I have a flaming red hot Poker and I'm not terribly bothered where I shove it to inflict punishment on someone who brings that up.

lutalica
08-25-2005, 05:30 AM
I didn't say they are to be balanced completely, but imagine a small fleet of few ISDs (no matter which), Vengeance and Executor class SSDs, and as a creme de la creme a Deathstar.
You put that against anything Rebels can field..... i think that this would ruin Adm. Ackbar's day :)

Thats what i meant when i said about numerous vessels....

Dagobahn Eagle
08-27-2005, 12:29 PM
There are so many EU ships in existance that making even more vessels is just a vaste of time. There's an Expanded Universe craft for every role imaginable.

That, and there's the fact that all the EU ships have fans that love them. For example, if you need a medium cruiser, why not add a strike cruiser and not that half-breed thing of a frigate and a Calamarian Cruiser?

The same trend continues on the ground. Those hover tanks look... Weird. I mean, what's wrong with T-3b tanks and Firehawke hover tanks?

The new ships look OK to me, really, but I'd rather have the classic EU vessels.

general ackbar
08-27-2005, 01:04 PM
There are so many EU ships in existance that making even more vessels is just a vaste of time. There's an Expanded Universe craft for every role imaginable.

That, and there's the fact that all the EU ships have fans that love them. For example, if you need a medium cruiser, why not add a strike cruiser and not that half-breed thing of a frigate and a Calamarian Cruiser?

The same trend continues on the ground. Those hover tanks look... Weird. I mean, what's wrong with T-3b tanks and Firehawke hover tanks?

The new ships look OK to me, really, but I'd rather have the classic EU vessels.


yea some of the rebel ground units i really dont like that much.

nightmarenny
09-26-2005, 01:45 AM
http://galactic-voyage.com/Light%20Side-Capital%20Ships-Liberator%20Carrier-Cruiser.htm

The pre existing Liberator carrior. Looks alot like this "broadside. :smash:

Jmaster3265
09-26-2005, 04:13 PM
Personally i really don't get what your complaining about...and second the game isn't perfect, no game is...

Naja
09-26-2005, 10:53 PM
As long as I have the Lancer, TIE Interceptor, SSD, and B-Wing, I won't bitch too much.

Darth_Terros
10-18-2005, 06:10 PM
If you look closer the ship your saying is a Escort Frigate and Mon Cal Cruiser is actually a mon cal cruiser with another ship just behind it at a odd angle you can actally see the line seperating the two

Darth Windu
10-19-2005, 03:41 AM
Terros - no, the ship really is supposed to look like that. It's on some other creenshots as well, so it isn't an illusion, as much as I wish it was.

DarthMaulUK
10-19-2005, 07:34 AM
Ive posted this elsewhere but I will post it again. Some of the designs might not be great - however, they give Modders the chance to change it all around for us, so we can have probably any ship/unit in the game.

DMUK

Darth_Terros
10-19-2005, 11:20 AM
Terros - no, the ship really is supposed to look like that. It's on some other creenshots as well, so it isn't an illusion, as much as I wish it was.

We are talking abotu the same thing i hope

I circled the mon cal in yellow and the thing your saying is part of it in pink now if you look at the other things i've circled pink they are the same ship your saying is part of teh mon cal? like i said it is just a weird angle?

thats if we're on about the same thing

Click (http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6069/52go.jpg)

Jan Gaarni
10-19-2005, 04:32 PM
Windu means the one in front of the ISD, right above the Empire at War logo.

lukeiamyourdad
10-19-2005, 04:53 PM
Ive posted this elsewhere but I will post it again. Some of the designs might not be great - however, they give Modders the chance to change it all around for us, so we can have probably any ship/unit in the game.

DMUK

It's not a good idea to rely on mods for good ship design...

Darth_Terros
10-19-2005, 06:30 PM
Windu means the one in front of the ISD, right above the Empire at War logo.

Ah ok :) i dont think that looks anything like a mon cal ship :S thats why i was a bit confused i dunno im sure i've seen ships like that before in various EU sources?


:vsd:

lukeiamyourdad
10-19-2005, 06:55 PM
The "head" part of that ship does look a bit like a Mon Cal cruiser.

I do like the way they've made this ship though :) I think it looks pretty good.

Darth_Terros
10-19-2005, 06:58 PM
The "head" part of that ship does look a bit like a Mon Cal cruiser.

I do like the way they've made this ship though :) I think it looks pretty good.

It looks really familiar and i cant place where from though

nightmarenny
10-19-2005, 07:22 PM
Ironicaly the ship the Darth is freaking out about I quite like. The impires frigate though.........

swphreak
10-19-2005, 07:25 PM
I could swear I've seen that ship in one of my comics. Maybe the Dark Empire ones, there were some odd ships in those.

Edit: The rebel cruiser thing, not the spacetank.

lukeiamyourdad
10-19-2005, 07:27 PM
The impires frigate though.........


This is where I fully I agree with Windu. The "hovertank in space" really is ugly looking. It just feels like some sort of bad filler ship. It's the only one I really have a huge gripe about.

nightmarenny
10-19-2005, 10:09 PM
I mean the other one. The liberater(their was a ship like that before EaW you know)-like isn't partiularly nice. Its the rebal ship I like. The one infront of the star destroyer.

lukeiamyourdad
10-19-2005, 10:12 PM
I understood what you meant. Perhaps I misquoted. I'll rectify everything so it's clearer.

GhOsT-Jedi
10-20-2005, 11:57 PM
I just read the first post so sorry if this was already said. If you think the models arn't any good why not make your own, post them here and maybe they will see it. Otherwise, please try not to critisize.

lukeiamyourdad
10-21-2005, 12:09 AM
But we need to criticize. If we always accept the status quo, nothing would improve.

GhOsT-Jedi
10-21-2005, 12:11 AM
Theres a difference in doing that and what he is doing, he's doing nothing to tell how to get better, he's just telling them they are doing a bad job...

lukeiamyourdad
10-21-2005, 12:27 AM
He's not a ship designer himself. Doesn't mean he can't have an opinion on how a ship looks.
Windu criticizes them for bad ship design but why would he propose something else? They're not going to listen to him, or any of us as a matter of fact, unless there's enough of us complaining about one particular element.

Do we need constructive criticism here? I don't believe we do.

Darth Windu
10-23-2005, 12:10 AM
Ghost - as luke said, I'm not a ship designer, never have been. Thing is though, I am a Star Wars fan, and for meit's easy to see what fits and what doesn't, and these two ship types don't fit.

Thing is, there are a heap of ship designs already in the SW universe which Petroglyph could have used. For example, if anyone here has Hyperspace on StarWars.com, there is a picture of a Rebel Starship breifly seen in RotJ, but it isn't in the game. Why?

lukeiamyourdad
10-23-2005, 11:55 PM
Thing is, there are a heap of ship designs already in the SW universe which Petroglyph could have used. For example, if anyone here has Hyperspace on StarWars.com, there is a picture of a Rebel Starship breifly seen in RotJ, but it isn't in the game. Why?

'cause it's seen so briefly people wouldn't recognize it :p ?

Darth Windu
10-24-2005, 12:10 AM
luke - true, but the thing is it (apparently) was in the films, whereas these ship designs have never been seen before. Clearly, film ships should take priority.

lukeiamyourdad
10-24-2005, 12:14 AM
Of course.

The Broadside might fill a gameplay hole, so does any other ship created for the game.
Well, they have an excuse...though a rather poor one...

Jan Gaarni
10-24-2005, 12:47 PM
Could you provide a picture of this ship?

Darth Windu
10-24-2005, 11:50 PM
Jan - I could, but since I got it from Hyperspace I don't know if I'd be breaching copyright laws or the like. Anyone know?

Jan Gaarni
10-25-2005, 05:44 AM
Well, I wouldn't think so, since all we really have to do is pop the DVD in our players and scan the scenes carefully. :)
You've already made us aware of it, so if it truly was to break something, you've kinda already did. :D

It would just be simpler if you posted the image.

Of course, you could also pop the DVD in your PC, find the place the ship is, and take a picture of it and post that. :)

gamefreak
10-25-2005, 10:31 AM
I like the Rebel ship, but I think they could have done better with the Imperial ship

Darth Windu
10-25-2005, 11:34 PM
Jan - I suppose so. Anyway, the image is-

http://www.geocities.com/icur_mmm/Unknown_Rebel_Ship.jpg

lukeiamyourdad
10-25-2005, 11:38 PM
That looks butt ugly. I'm serious.

Darth_Terros
10-26-2005, 02:10 AM
I kinda like it looks old and battered like something the rebels would have had to use

Darth Windu
10-26-2005, 06:19 AM
luke - never said it looked good, but apparently it is in RotJ.

Jan Gaarni
10-26-2005, 11:17 AM
I have never noticed that ship before.
Must scan the films now. :)

Darth_Terros
10-26-2005, 11:22 AM
Yeah cant say i've ever seen it before?

If you can Jan Gaarni take a pic of it or give then time that it appears please :D

Foshjedi2004
10-26-2005, 12:02 PM
|Its not in the films. Looks a bit like Serenity from the Serenity Film and Firefly.

gamefreak
10-26-2005, 04:26 PM
I agree that Rebels and Imperials arnt suppost to be balnced, but even then the way the game looks like it is set up is that the Imperials have a greater variety of ships. Nothing is Stoping the Rebels from biulding a massive fleet (except the even bigger Imperial fleet hunting them down of corse lol)

Darth Windu
10-26-2005, 10:44 PM
Fosh - so you're saying that StarWars.com is lying when they say it's in RotJ?

Jan - you'll have to look really hard, it's supposed to be seen only really quickly.

Jan Gaarni
10-27-2005, 02:24 AM
Not necessary lying, but even StarWars.com has gotten certain things wrong from time to time. :)

Basically noones perfect.

But personally I have no doubt it was atleast made for the movie. And there's no proof it isn't in the movie so.... :)

I'll see if I don't get time to look for it this weekend.

gamefreak
10-27-2005, 10:23 AM
I dont know about that ship but when your watching ROTJ and the falcon + fighters are flying through the fleet theres a ship way in the back ground that kind of looks like a flater nebulan-B

Jmaster3265
11-18-2005, 11:12 PM
Gotta say, I loved the C&C series but I am rather concerned about EaW, primarily due to the utterly pathetic and un-StarWarsy ships we are getting. Two examples of what I mean are here-

http://www.empireatwar.net/fall2005/gallery/screenshots/space/august05/exclusive/5.jpg

First off, you have a Rebel ship that looks like there was crash between an Escort Frigate and Mon Cal Cruiser, with the mechanics putting together various pieces of each until it vagely resembled a Starship.
Then, you get the 'Republic Hover Tank in Space' ship for the Imperials, in the same screenshot.

What is wrong with these people? The canon ships seem to have been done very well, but these new ships that seem to have been created just for EaW are horrible, and I think something needs to be done about it.

Thoughts?


Are you a.k.a the cheeseinator? i bet so....

Darth Windu
11-19-2005, 12:09 AM
Um...what? Who or what is the 'cheesinator?

Jan Gaarni
11-19-2005, 07:20 AM
Ignore