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Nur Ab Sal
09-05-2005, 08:02 AM
Listen people I have just found these two mysterious maps in KOTOR I files.
Obviously they exhibit modules that were planned for KOTOR but not implemented during development. Could someone plz tell me more about these areas? And maybe there's some way to restore them, like TSL cut content?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/Nur-Ab-Sal/lbl_mapm10ab.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/Nur-Ab-Sal/lbl_mapm25ab.jpg

Achilles
09-05-2005, 08:16 AM
The first one is part of the Black Vulkar base that was cut. Surprisingly it's pretty much a complete module. Check the stickies for more info, including the warp code.

The second one is a little trickier. I can't tell if that's the sarlacc pit that was cut from Tattooine, or the Gamorrean sewer camp that was cut from Taris. Heck, it could even be part of Sleheyron.

EDIT: Found it! Here's the thread that talks about the Black Vulkar level
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123582

Nur Ab Sal
09-05-2005, 10:14 AM
Thanks. Second picture was among Kashyyyk maps but it indeed looks like sarlacc stomach. Gamorrean base would be rather similar to taris sewers.

Achilles
09-05-2005, 01:03 PM
I do recall hearing rumors of a third section of the Shadowlands. Maybe that was it.

Nur Ab Sal
09-05-2005, 01:27 PM
I wonder why no one on Holowan seems interested in restoring what was cut from KOTOR I... all hope in Team Gizka - as always.

maaneeack
09-05-2005, 06:59 PM
I wonder why no one on Holowan seems interested in restoring what was cut from KOTOR I... all hope in Team Gizka - as always.

I think this is because most of the modders view KotOR as a complete game whereas KotOR II is seen more as rushed out and vastly under-developed.

Achilles
09-05-2005, 08:10 PM
I wonder why no one on Holowan seems interested in restoring what was cut from KOTOR I... all hope in Team Gizka - as always.Not as much to work with. Most of the stuff that was cut by BW was abandoned early in development, so there aren't as many remnants to work with. OE on the other hand had the stuff made and in the game (for the most part). Big difference.

On a more philosphical note, I won't mourn TSL's cut content until I see KotOR 3. I'm assuming that OE had good reason to cut what they did and I don't think it was a matter of time. If anything, the efforts they made to "back out" seem rushed. If I were a betting man, I'd say that at least part of the content that was removed was cut due to continuity for the K3 storyline which was already in development. Just my 2 cents.

Darth333
09-05-2005, 09:21 PM
I agree with Achilles. While the cutting of droid planet seem to be related to time only, I believe that the end was cut due to other reasons as well such as continuity, the story being too dark for ratings and/or whatever other reason. While I do appreciate what team gizka is doing and don't deny the huge task they are accomplishing, it is not the kind of project I would have any interest working on. Apart time issues, I was never personally too fond of the alternate ends "planned" for Kotor 2 but that's just me.

As for Kotor 1, there is an alternate ending that has been restored, you have the Bastila on Korriban mod and Deadeye Duncan on Manaan. As for the cut area, I used it in a joke mod made for tk102's birthday but I never tried to restore the original story: the only thing that was kept was the pazaak player :p

You'll find all this stuff at pcgm :)

deathdisco
09-06-2005, 01:01 AM
Cutting content is one thing but OE really should of cleaned up the left overs. I think there would be less complaints/confusion if they removed references to what was cut.

Nur Ab Sal
09-06-2005, 03:47 AM
In case of TSL we have tons of cut material not related with endings like Serrocco Thugs quest, Bith Scientist murder or Droid Planet or conversations between various NPCs that are vital to the storyline. Personally I doubt Team Gizka's project will improve TSL much, but it will increase replayability of the game.

In case of KOTOR I think that there is much sense in restoring cut content: Sleheyron, Sarlacc Quest, Vulkar Base Level and other things that were planned. After playing KOTOR for 102st time, one's really bored with the same situations so it would be cool to have one of those lost things. I know that restoring those thing would be a real challenge for modders (you'd have to
fill many gaps with your imagination - but that's RPG, isn't?) but it has so much more sense than producing another "lord magnetron hype-armor" or "bastila magic strings"...

RedHawke
09-06-2005, 03:59 AM
I know that restoring those thing would be a real challenge for modders (you'd have to fill many gaps with your imagination - but that's RPG, isn't?) but it has so much more sense than producing another "lord magnetron hype-armor" or "bastila magic strings"...
Did it ever occur to you that there are reasons no one has done any mods like this? :dozey:

If you personally feel our mods lacking, then by all means please roll up your sleeves and make for us the necissary tools to make new levels and new animated models for KOTOR and TSL...

Then maby we will be able to make mods have "so much more sense" as you put it, and not make anymore "lord magnetron hype-armor" or "bastila magic strings" mods anymore. I'm really sorry you feel that way, but we can only make what we can make. :(

Nur Ab Sal
09-06-2005, 04:00 AM
So how team gizka is able to restore K2 cut content then? Not to mention guys who are working on restoring the Droid Planet that requires inventing new side quests, ebon hawk landing movies and so on...

RedHawke
09-06-2005, 04:24 AM
You were not talking about these projects you said "Sleheyron, Sarlacc Quest, Vulkar Base Level and other things that were planned. After playing KOTOR for 102st time, one's really bored with the same situations so it would be cool to have one of those lost things."

None of these except the Vulkar Base is possible because none of those resources exist in the released game, this is where the need for tools came in, whereas the ones for TSL you mentioned have some content to work from.

But don't expect too much "new" content from these Restoration mods, likely the Restoration Project will only give us the varying NPC' ending cutscenes, and the Droid Factory Quest, massive undertaking yes, but likely we will see it very little in the progress of the game, the only actual "new" content will be the Droid Factory levels, the rest is cutscenens revealing the fates of our NPC's. And the things needed to restore the Droid Planet might not be possible at this time, again the need for tools. ;)

Achilles
09-06-2005, 06:38 AM
So how team gizka is able to restore K2 cut content then? Not to mention guys who are working on restoring the Droid Planet that requires inventing new side quests, ebon hawk landing movies and so on...Apparently Boy Wonder didn't read my post. In case Redhawke also failed to get the point across, I'll try again using smaller words.

TSL = lots of legos not put together.
KotOR = two legos already put together but not part of the castle.

When you're finished blazin' your six-shooter, please take a moment and realize that without an official toolset, we only have the tools that the community has built. Without support from the devs there are several barriers that have not been figured out yet. These include (but are not limited to) animations, module creation, and adding feats. Things that we can do include skinning, altering item properties, scripting, and modelling non-animated items (such as swords, guns, or lightsaber hilts), hence why you see so many mods based around these core areas.

The TSL Restoration Project is only possible because OE left a bunch of half-finished stuff laying around (mostly-finished modules, VOs and scripted dialogs that haven't been combined, etc). BW didn't do that. BW did most of their cutting before stuff was built, not afterwards. Therefore, there isn't anything to "restore".

Nur Ab Sal
09-06-2005, 07:46 AM
And now I understand! :)

It seems that you just need some wizard to develop a toolset for you - or a spy to steal it from Bioware.

Howewer if Vulkar Base module is almost finished, I still don't understand why
no one didn't restore it.

And I don't blaze six-shooters BTW

Darth333
09-06-2005, 10:23 AM
Howewer if Vulkar Base module is almost finished, I still don't understand why
no one didn't restore it.

I see two possible reasons:

- the story as it is stands together very well. ( and personally, my only goal when I mod is to have fun and I find it funnier to work on my own stuff than restoring existing material.)

- When Kotor 1 was released, we didn't have modding tools. We needed to do everything with a gff and an erf editor and trust me, editing a dialogue with a GFF editor is rather painful and it takes forever, there was no way to edit models at all (the only possibility were reskins), etc. We got a dialogue editor suited for for "heavy duty" jobs only in September last year. Modelling lighstabers is possible since November only if I recall correctly. By the time, we had proper tools, many people had lost interest in the game. When Kotor 2 was released, we already had fully functional tools.

Nur Ab Sal
09-06-2005, 11:02 AM
I can't understand how someone could have lost interest in KOTOR. I think that game has giant potential and it's a shame that we can't add really interesting things to it. Storyline sucks but immersion in the star wars universe is great and history has taught us that fan-made addons are often more interesting and brilliant than commercial stuff made by people who don't feel true geekiness.

Slipstreme
09-06-2005, 11:49 AM
I've heard of the Pig camp, it was supposed to be cool, so was the Rancor pit

Darth InSidious
09-06-2005, 12:40 PM
I was (fairly whimsically, I admit) thinking of restoring the Vulkar thingy.....after, that is, Rhen Var, Ziost, and about a dozen updates on my previous mods.....

Slipstreme
09-06-2005, 12:56 PM
Unlike TSL there are way to many missing peices, thats why no one has done it yet

Darth InSidious
09-06-2005, 03:27 PM
^Exactly.
Of sleheyron there's virtually nothing.
Of tar_m10ab, it would need some quest and dlg editing, and there's probably no VOs going with some of it. Also, you would need to find a way for you to get together with Mission and Zaalbar, unless you were gonna create entirely new characters, which would take a loooong time.

Achilles
09-06-2005, 07:55 PM
IIRC, the only thing that didn't work (well) in tar_m10ab was a female NPC that had a male voice. Other than that, it was pretty much a done deal.

Slipstreme
09-06-2005, 09:48 PM
Yeah, its just no possible

RedHawke
09-07-2005, 01:13 AM
Adding in the Vulkar base level is not really worth the effort, it would add what, like 5-15 minutes of gameplay, and serve no real purpose... as the gun Turrets can be disabled at the computer panel instead of going to the upper level to turn on the heater to raise the room temprature where the turrets are... which is a really lame thing to have in the game IMHO. But this is probably just me. ;)

Slipstreme
09-07-2005, 02:14 AM
I agree with the Hawk, its would be a waste of time

T7nowhere
09-07-2005, 02:15 AM
I agree with Darth333 Its much more fun making a mod that I want to make. I always try to make mods that have not been done yet, its much more interesting than continueing from where someone else left off. But thats just me.

I personally think K1 is complete, it would have been great if Bioware left Slaheyron in KotOR but they cleaned the areas out for the most part. all that they left were a couple hallway models and an Arena with no Lightmaps so it was useless to us modders.

In K2 the entire droid planet is available to use and I still wouldn't want to spend time trying to restore it with OE's table scraps. I would much rather use those modules to create new areas. But to do so is not easy I still think Redhawke is insane for placing all those containers in his Ord Mandell mod ;) . I personally don't have that kind of patients to spend hours tweaking the placables in the gff editor then going back into the game coutless times until its satifactory.

Darth InSidious
09-07-2005, 12:44 PM
Where's the Arena?

Slipstreme
09-07-2005, 12:48 PM
I think its on Tatooine...

Darth InSidious
09-07-2005, 12:58 PM
Where? Which module?

Slipstreme
09-07-2005, 01:00 PM
I don't know, I'm not a modder

Darth InSidious
09-07-2005, 01:01 PM
Oh. Okay, nvm ;)

Slipstreme
09-07-2005, 01:06 PM
I'm sorry, I'd help if I could

Darth333
09-07-2005, 01:51 PM
The arena was supposed to be part of Sleyheyron. You won't find it in any modules: there's only one model.

I tried to import it in the game a while ago but, as mentioned by T7, since there were no lightmaps, it's extremely dark and useless as you can see:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/KotOR0001b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/KotOR0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/KotOR0002a.jpg

Nur Ab Sal
09-07-2005, 02:46 PM
What role was arena supposed to play in Sleheyron quests?

Darth333
09-07-2005, 02:58 PM
Who knows. It's about the only remnant of the whole planet. We got some textures which were "re-used" in TSL cut droid planet: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/LSL_sky02copy.jpg and that's all. No dialogues, no sounds, nothing.

Darth InSidious
09-07-2005, 05:08 PM
Actually, Darth, I was thinking of warping and using the lightness cheat to look around ;)

Mono_Giganto
09-07-2005, 05:33 PM
Actually, Darth, I was thinking of warping and using
the lightness cheat to look around ;)

Could be wrong, but I think that cheat just magnifies the light intensity, so if there are none, it probably won't do anything.

Darth333
09-07-2005, 07:09 PM
You can't warp there: it's not included in any area. You have to add the model in the game first.

Slipstreme
09-07-2005, 08:10 PM
It looks like a badly painted version of the battle-ring on Taris

RedHawke
09-07-2005, 11:23 PM
I would much rather use those modules to create new areas. But to do so is not easy I still think Redhawke is insane for placing all those containers in his Ord Mandell mod ;) . I personally don't have that kind of patients to spend hours tweaking the placables in the gff editor then going back into the game coutless times until its satifactory.
Yup T7, I didn't know what I was getting into... It looked great as an idea on paper! ;)
Somewhere I have 6 or so 3X5 cards full of 'whereami' coordinates! :eek:
After I got through with it all I definately felt a little... :nutz3:

Darth InSidious
09-08-2005, 06:31 AM
^One reason I hate creating new areas ;)
@Mono: Okay..

Nur Ab Sal
09-11-2005, 01:00 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that Sleheyron? And its textures?

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/vgnews/051402/knightsoftheoldrepublic/knights_screen017.jpg

RedHawke
09-11-2005, 11:51 PM
^^^^
Yes, I believe it is...

But it is a production screenshot and none of that is available in the games files... they were removed by Bioware before release, so it is impossible to have that put back into the game. A real shame too! :(

T7nowhere
09-12-2005, 01:12 AM
ya thats Sleheyron, to bad Bioware wasn't as sloppy as OE, but I think Bioware had almost 3 years to make KotOR.