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coupes.
09-15-2005, 11:09 PM
http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html
http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-23521-2567-x-x-x&tag=gs_hp_flashtop_bg
http://gamecube.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782

Acrylic
09-15-2005, 11:14 PM
OMG.

I've been waiting for this for so long.

Anyways, this is so....different.

It looks kinda...gross, but ya know, I betcha this may change the way games are played. Infact, I kinda like it. I think. o_0

Tyrion
09-15-2005, 11:18 PM
I like the look of it, reminds me of an Ipod Shuffle. But man, when they said revolutionary...they meant revolutionary.

However, this means melee combat in games might, you know, be awesome. Sword slashy for the win.

Darth Andrew
09-15-2005, 11:26 PM
:eyeraise:

That's a controller? Looks more like a TV remote. Though the control options sound quite... revolutionary. Meh, I guess I'm more of a fan of the traditional controller.

the_raven_03
09-15-2005, 11:41 PM
I think this could be either an amazing creation or it could seriously hurt the Revolution. I am very intrigued by it to say the least.

abespam
09-15-2005, 11:42 PM
i was scrolling down ign lookin for a pic of the controller, and i was like wtf why are they showing me the tv remote.. then it hit me

Its definitely different, and its 'tilting' aspect is something thats definitely revolutionary. Ive been waiting for a new aspect of input in controllers for consoles, the other ones are just the same thing thats been used for the last 10 years.

It reminds me a lot of the controller that u get on singapore airline flights, that has a phone on the back.. rofl

Im guessing since u can play both left and right handed the design was made specifically like that. Also the fact that u hav to point the controller towards the tv will lead to tired arms, esp if u intend to play for hrs..

but yeh wielding a sword in zelda by simply moving the controller around in the direction desired.. that is what i call revolutionary

ppl will dislike this mainly because they say it looks like a tv remote, but if u can get past the fact that its not ur basic console controller it has hell a lot of potential.

acdcfanbill
09-15-2005, 11:56 PM
uh, man, i dunno, maybe it will work good, who knows :S

Mike Windu
09-16-2005, 12:05 AM
Super Smash is so ****ed. :p

IG-64
09-16-2005, 12:06 AM
I think it's awesome.

But then again, I would. :p

Bob Lion54
09-16-2005, 12:33 AM
Holy crap!

I *think* I like it..........

This will be odd getting used to. Its made so you can use it with one hand! Thats cool because its kinda hard to eat while your playing games. Now you can do both!

I was not expecting that!
WOWZERS!

i was scrolling down ign lookin for a pic of the controller, and i was like wtf why are they showing me the tv remote.. then it hit me

Yea, same here. At first I though it was a DVD remote for it.

Mike Windu
09-16-2005, 12:56 AM
I personally don't think that setup is the best. Cause your fingers don't reach up all the way to the top of the controller.
(most people anyway)
It's going to be hard to map controls to that.

IGN brings up a good point by the way, about people getting tired of holding their arms in the air for an hour. :p

coupes.
09-16-2005, 02:08 AM
Make sure to watch the teaser video posted here (http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334/vids_1.html).

Darth Groovy
09-16-2005, 02:09 AM
Lame. Third party controllers are gonna go ape **** with this one. "Want a controller that's not retarded? Try this one!!!!"

Kain
09-16-2005, 02:37 AM
Makes me glad I hate Nintendo and all its systems.

ET Warrior
09-16-2005, 02:45 AM
If they can arrange a solid launch lineup of games that properly use it's capabilites, then this. will. ROCK.

Hermie
09-16-2005, 03:41 AM
I like it, the only problem is if the developers can actually take full use of it...

but it do set Nintendo further away from multi-platform games. :(



[edit]full, not fukk >.<

Kengo
09-16-2005, 04:28 AM
Whatthe...

That controlled definately deserves a double take. I'm pretty dubious myself, except that Nintendo hardly ever get things wrong when it comes to being innovative. I guess this will turn out well, break new ground, then get nicked by Sony and Microsoft and appear in their consoles that will outsell the Nintendo one 10 to 1!

I do wonder about 3rd party developers being able to design for it, the Nintendo systems seem less and less about mainstream games from big companies and more about amazing, but occasional in-house stuff. Also, I always feel re-assured by more buttons. You just can't lose when you add another 8 buttons to the 24 the last generation consoles had.

Lynk Former
09-16-2005, 05:01 AM
Introduction
This post will be long, but worth the read for those who want to hear my opinion or want to challenge my opinion. I am a Nintendo fan, yes but as some have taunted me with, I am not a mindless fan boy. I would also like to say that while we have seen this new controller from afar, none of us actually knows what it is like to play with it, so the opinions we all have are lacking actual experience with this controller. That said we all still have a lot to say about this controller.


People Fear Change
When Nintendo said that they were going to create something so different that it would revolutionise the way we played games, we were all doubtful that they could pull it off. I am sure that some of you are still doubtful even after seeing the controller for yourself. Some of you may think that this controller will just not work, that the traditional way is the only way to go. Some will ridicule this controller for as long as it takes. And so you should, it's human nature to do so. This controller is different. Obviously. Anyone and everyone who doesn't like things done too different will not like this controller. Games are played with directional buttons and action buttons, and analog sticks in recent years. The controller has too few buttons, Nintendo is teh d00med!!

Neon Genesis
This is a new beginning for gaming. We have two titans, Sony and Microsoft, and one sleeping dragon that is finally awakening from a long slumber, Nintendo. Sony and Microsoft have chosen to stay with traditional console gaming, incorporated some PC gaming elements and have affectively made two separate clones of the same concept. I'm not saying that itís wrong; the Xbox360 and PS3 will both be very successful because they are built the way people expect consoles to be built. However, they have nothing new. Nintendo on the other hand has kept true to their word and has gone in a completely new direction and created a totally new concept. This new direction has just opened up a completely new way of looking at gaming. Games that could never have been created using the traditional controller design are now achievable with this new concept. Those extra buttons that have been added every generation are about to become redundant. Non-gamers will soon become gamers because now it's as easy as point and click, something that anyone with a TV knows how to do very well indeed.


Thinking Traditionally
Nintendo has stated that this is a near final prototype, some features such has the batteries and button tags may be changed slightly as well as the look. In any case, letís look at this from a traditional perspective of how we think a controller should be. The main controller has a D-Pad, directly beneath it is an A button and on the underside is a B trigger. It also has a Power button located at the top left corner to switch the console on and off. A Start button, the return of the Select button and a Home button. It also has another set of a and b buttons near the bottom of the controller. The attachment (nunchaku style) shown in the second pic has an Analog Stick and Z1 and Z2 buttons for your index and middle finger. All in all, we have 14 buttons and 1 Analog Stick, if we go by the traditional measurements. The GameCube has 12 buttons + 2 hidden buttons = 14 - 1 utility button = 13, and 2 analog sticks. The PS2/PS3 has 14 buttons + 2 hidden buttons = 16 - 2 utility buttons = 14, and 2 analog sticks. The Xbox/Xbox360 has 14 buttons + 2 hidden buttons = 16 - 2 utility buttons = 14, and 2 analog sticks. So we've counted and compared all the buttons in a traditional sense, and yes, even though the Revolution controller has just as many buttons there is still a small problem. 1 of them is a Power button, 3 of them are utility buttons and 2 of them are not even accessible unless you use the Revolution controller in the NES way (as shown in my sig)... which means 14 buttons - 5 = 9. So what the hell can we do with 9 buttons? Well there is one very interesting solution to this problem. The D-Pad provides 4 buttons, hold down B and now you have 4 more buttons using the D-Pad. But think about it, why are we thinking traditionally with this controller when it has features that are beyond tradition? This controller doesnít even look anywhere near traditional so if we think traditionally with this controller we will find that we can't think of ways to play games using what looks like a DVD remote. So itís time to stop thinking traditionally and start thinking of new ways to play games. Itís a Revolution remember, tradition is getting its ass kicked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/lynk/revolution_controller.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/lynk/revolution_nunchaku.gif

Use the Force
Buttons can only do so much, and as I said earlier, with every generation more buttons have been added to the controllers of respective consoles. We all love our many buttons, which is why some of you just do not like this controller, however this controller has just made those extra buttons and analog sticks redundant. The 3D Pointer feature has just turned your controller into an analog stick without the need for an analog stick. It has also turned your controller into what is effectively the equivelant of what the Nintendo DS has. Your TV screen is now one big touch screen in a manner of speaking. The tilt control has given you an extra dimension of control, something that an analog stick cannot recreate. And the ability to add on expansions onto the controller will provide you with unique extras that will further enhance your gameplay.


The Possibilities
Now let's imagine you're playing Metroid Prime or a similar FPS game. With the main controller in your right hand you are able to look around and point your weapon in whatever direction you want just by pointing your controller in that direction. In your left hand you have that expansion which has the analog stick so you can control the movement of Samus. The D-Pad has four directional buttons, up, left, right and down which are used to select the four available weapons. A button is jump, B button is Fire, Z2 is Morphball and Z2 is where it gets interesting. Hold Z2 and suddenly B becomes your secondary weapon button and the D-Pad is now able to switch between Visors. All you need now is to assign the Map to the Select button and you're set. Hell you could play an FPS game using just the main controller with one hand. Move using the D-Pad, Look using the 3D Pointer control, Lean around corners using the tilt control, fire using B, A is the action button or select weapon, depending on the game, etc, etc.

Finishing off for now
Well I love what Nintendo has done, it's a new way to play games. I'm happy. Challenge me if you want, I wanna see what kind of doubts people have about this controller. One thing I do agree with is that this will be a nightmare for ports and for those third party developers who are too lazy to do things differently or just want to do what's comfortable for them.

toms
09-16-2005, 08:45 AM
Wow!!

Thats unexpected.
My first thought was "a remote, that sucks". Then my second (after reading how it works) was "thats gonna rock". Then my third was "they are gonna have to work very hard to convince existing gamers".

I think before anyone comments they need to read the article, and preferably watch the video (above, or here:http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2005/09/16/443527.html).
The video does show some amazing options (drumming etc..) which, if they can get the sensitivity right, could be absolutely stunning.

The video also shows they were serious about going for a different market. Its much more of a "eye-toy" market. But then that market is huge. But then you have to think that if the FPS thing works to it's full potential (and with the analogue add-on) then its gonna rock for hardcore gamers.

As for the "holding hands in the air gets tired" issue, one of the reviews mentions that if you sit with your arms on your lap like a conventional controller then it works great. Like a better version of the existing controller, but split in two.

As I see it there will be 3 main issues:

1 - Convincing existing gamers to overcome the difference. This will be hard, but then it does underline the "we want to be diffferent" philosophy that no-one quite believed until now. SO maybe they don't even want those gamers.

2 - Getting the sensitivity right. They are gonna need some clever tuning and anti-shake functionality... or it could get very frustrating. It needs to be sensitive enough that it allows real control (not like eyetoy) but not sooooo sensitive that your view shakes all over the place when you try and look around.

3 - And this is the big, interesting one - GETTING PEOPLE TO MAKE GAMES FOR IT.

I kind of feel like ign when they say This is a bold step for Nintendo. It will seemingly exclude the Revolution from a lot of third-party release. They'll all have to be tweaked if they hope to work well at all. So, this creates a rather large uphill battle for supporting the system with a consistent flow of content. However, the exciting part is that most games that are actually made for Revolution will be very unique and that's what Nintendo is aiming for. Unfortunately, as the DS has proven, unique doesn't always equal better gameplay.
The n64 and Cube have shown that running a console entirely on first party releases just won't work. They don't come out often enough, making your console look unsupported, and they mean the genres are very limited. Nintendo always makes great games, but they need to get other people to make them too.
It appears they ARE going for different audiences and different types of games, but this means that its gonna cost third party developers more money to develop for the REV. They'll either have to spend more money porting, or develop REV-only games... which is a less profitable deal for them then releasing cross-platform games and getting 3 times the return.

After my initial scepticism I think its a great idea, but unless they get people to support it its gonna be a great idea that gets ignored.

IG-64
09-16-2005, 09:52 AM
^ I agree with everything Toms just said ^

And, i've made a desktop backgorund by removing the hand in that one picture: click (http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2439/revdeskcopy20qc.jpg)

And, another pic:
http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/4f66l-eCPH_CgO54YcKUd5pfmmaM7C4U.jpg

Mmmmm, black. :cool:

Rogue Nine
09-16-2005, 10:22 AM
Wee, now my portable hard drive will have a remote control thingamabobber to go with it.

All I can say is that I hope that it does my laundry and picks up my kids from soccer practice too.

IG-64
09-16-2005, 10:23 AM
Thanks for the desktop IG!

No problem. :)

And, i've just noticed something odd about that picture. It seems the reflecion of the controller is diffrent than the controller itsself. Check it out.

PoM
09-16-2005, 10:55 AM
What do you mean?


Anyway, this is going to make it so simple playing console games...I always had a hard time aiming and stuff with an analog stick, because it's basically...Really hard.

First thougt: Right...
After reading more: Hey...
Now: It looks perfect.

Comments: I like the gray one :p


Edit: Dude! My 777:th post was about N-Rev!

IG-64
09-16-2005, 11:29 AM
I just realized what was in the reflection in that pic. I've also realized that the same thing is in that video, and it slipped my notice the first. And it's quite obvious. Take a look:

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/3434/difrevcontroller8hy.jpg

It looks like it could be an earlier version of the controller. With X and Y on the 2 lower buttons, which read "b" and "a" when the controller is turned.

Weird.

Bastila
09-16-2005, 12:03 PM
hmmm looks like an ipod/tv controller, looks a bit hard maybe to play with as well.

Hermie
09-16-2005, 12:47 PM
I just realized how much more movability you will have with this. Think about it. An analog stick is always restricted to 180 degrees, and your thumb can move a little less than that. Now you get to utilize three joints plus you can move in depth.....

Mex
09-16-2005, 01:05 PM
Holy crap.

Holy crap.

Holy crap.

I thought the Revolution was going to flop. The hell with PS3 and the Xbox 360. This is the future.

Obi_Kwiet
09-16-2005, 01:28 PM
Pft. Mouse and KB > *

Mex
09-16-2005, 01:40 PM
Pft. Mouse and KB > *

Hahahahahahah, somehow I don't think the mouse and keyboard could hold a candle to the Revolution controller.

IG-64
09-16-2005, 02:22 PM
Pft. Mouse and KB > *

A bulky board with 100+ buttons all scrunched together, and something that has to be on a flat surface the entire time and usually has >5 functions.

Aint seein it. :p

shukrallah
09-16-2005, 02:23 PM
So umm... why the remote design, they could have made it look like a controller, with the same buttons and functions. I really don't like the way it looks...

IG-64
09-16-2005, 02:32 PM
So umm... why the remote design, they could have made it look like a controller, with the same buttons and functions. I really don't like the way it looks...

I watched the entire keynote speech (http://www.irwebcasting.com/050916/03/ff3672f7df/index.html). And he said it was because alot of people have trouble even picking up a 2-handed controller, because it's intimidating. But it seems anyone will pick up a remote control.

And by the way, I like the way it looks. :p

shukrallah
09-16-2005, 02:36 PM
Technically, it is just a controller with motion sensors... and less buttons. Its going to suck that your going to have to press buttons to change buttons and enable other features just because there aren't enough buttons. IDK... to be honest, I think it might be easier to control your characters movement, but everything else will be harder.

Feanaro
09-16-2005, 03:46 PM
I think if it works, it will change gaming forever. But if it isn't recieved well, then it's done. I think it's awesome, i'm just not so sure how much you can do with it.

ChAiNz.2da
09-16-2005, 03:51 PM
I just realized what was in the reflection in that pic. I've also realized that the same thing is in that video, and it slipped my notice the first. And it's quite obvious. Take a look:

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/3434/difrevcontroller8hy.jpg

It looks like it could be an earlier version of the controller. With X and Y on the 2 lower buttons, which read "b" and "a" when the controller is turned.

Weird.
I have my doubts about it, but I'll admit I'm not much of a console user.

However, the orientation that IG-64 pointed out above seems like users might have the option to turn the "remote" on it's side and use it in the old-fashioned conventional sense. If so, then I think Nintendo just "Revolutionized" the way controllers will be treated in the future ;)

I would think giving the players the option to use it in either way would definitely bridge the gap with those who are turned off to the design by first glance...

El Sitherino
09-16-2005, 04:20 PM
... Well, Nintendo invented the one hand controller. Now for DoA: Volleyball and everyone* in here will no doubt shut up in a second. ;)

*everyone negative

Lynk Former
09-16-2005, 06:34 PM
Left handed players are probably feeling very good right now, as well as a friend of mine who lost his right arm in an accident a few years back and hasn't been able to play videogames since. He can get back into videogames easily now! :D Man, I need to call him and see what's shakin on his end.


It'll be interesting to see the expansions that will come out for it, I like the analog expansion and we know that there is gonna be a classic gamepad exansion but what else could we see in the future?


Iwata Keynotes (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651320p1.html)
Keynote Video (http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651383/vids_1.html)
Revolution Branding Gone (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651309p1.html)
Revolution Controller at a Glance (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651301p1.html)
Hands on with Controller (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html)
Revolution Teaser Video (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334p1.html)
Developers Comment on Controller (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651304p1.html)
Revolution Controller Possibilities (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651224p1.html)

abespam
09-16-2005, 09:11 PM
yeht the reason for the bottom two a/b bottons is purely for backwards compatibility
nes: turn the controller on its side ... dpad and a/b buttons
snes: turn the controller on its side .. dpad a/b buttons on right could be x/y buttons (such as in the pic ig showed), and the a button on the left and the b trigger could be the other 2 buttons on the snes controller
n64: controller upright, with peripheral joystick .. though there is a joystick, equivalent l/r buttons, a dpad that can beused as the c-pad, and a/b buttons i think they are in fact lacking a z-button.. whateva way u look
gamecube: equivalent to n64,

-tv remote appearance to not scare away gamers.. fair enuf, there tryin to get those equivalent ds users who are first time gamers, but i think the fact that it is no longer biased toward right handed is more of a key issue. Using a normal controller as a leftie is one thing but having to use the pointer in ur non-prefered hand is a severe disadvantage. The controller i guess wasnt jazzed up into the perfect mold of a right hand probably for this reason as well.

3rd Party Developers-
I believe that this indeed is the future of console gaming, like Lynk said ppl will be slow to come to terms with the idea, but there are a few key gaming platforms that this controller clearly outpaces the others in..
1) sword fighting game - wielding the controller like a sword and possibly getting rumble feature resistance when the sword hits something, is something that is absolutely amazing, i cant wait to play zelda or even a two-player fighting game with jabs and thrusts and parrys its just soo much potential. The other consoles just dont compare.
2) Strategy games- strategy games on consoles in the past have lets face a complete disadvantage, the joystick just doesnt have the right sensitivity and feel when compared to the mouse, and micro (and even sometimes macro) mangement of units is really only properly feasible for the decent gamer on pc. The pointer should put the controller on level playing field
3) FPS Shooters - i have been a big believer of mouse look > joystick look. If u read my halo comment i think that mouse has a big adv in terms of ease to use and sensitivity. But that aside the pointer should finally allow a smooth equivalent mouse look and also put it on level playing field
4) Flying sim - the fack that u can use the controller as a cockpit stick is absolutely amazing, combin the tilt to use the rudder and u hav the perfect joystick
5) mini-games - the pointer gives a new 3-d peripheral to work with and that alone will give to rise new mini games, add to that the tilt feature u can be sure the the new gamers will have to adapt and start become really good at using these features to become elite players. Sort of like ppl who were really good at using the d-pad and than had real difficulties with joystick. Other games off the top of my head include fishing (oh zelda fishing i have waited so long), mario-party type games and monkey ball

These aspects should become part and parcel of future console gaming and as a result i hope the 3d party developers decide to make games for rev sooner rather than later when xbox/ps have jumped on the bandwagon.

Lynk Former
09-16-2005, 09:31 PM
@ abespam: Not just for backwards compatibility, for 2 handed use. Think of it this way, you're playing Mario Kart with the Revolution controller, you have it on its side in what I like to call "NES mode." But how exactly are we meant to use it in Mario Kart like this? Well the entire controller is your steering wheel, tilt left and right and you will have the ability to control turns. a for accelarate, b for brake, the B trigger will be to activate/use items. And the D-Pad will be used to initiate powerslides and do other groovy things.

Understanding the Revolution Controller (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html)

coupes.
09-16-2005, 09:32 PM
Understanding the Revolution Controller (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p2.html)

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg

"Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice." -IGN

edit: Damn you Lynk ! :p

abespam
09-16-2005, 09:59 PM
ooh now we talking.. bare in mind fellas that photo is not what it looks like but the fact that they will release a controller shell means ppl have nothing to complain about .. at all

2 controllers for one person, Cartman Quote, "ThATs so kewl u guys". Too bad there are only four controller ports

Yep thats true link.. i forgot that u can use the tilt feature even when the pointer is not facing the tv..

coupes.
09-16-2005, 10:00 PM
The complete keynote is also available on IGN now...
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651383/vids_1.html

Lynk Former
09-16-2005, 10:47 PM
The complete keynote is also available on IGN now...
http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651383/vids_1.html

I also got that linked before you did :p lol

also: Yet More Controller Talk (http://nintendonow.e-mpire.com/index.php?categoryid=4&m_articles_articleid=3015)

Mike Windu
09-16-2005, 10:50 PM
SSBM has hope! :D

I just hope the traditional controller shell doesnt fail like the dreamcast controller + memory card thing. :p

Lynk Former
09-16-2005, 10:53 PM
SSBR = made by Nintendo
Controller = made by Nintendo

Therefore, SSBR + Revolution Controller = made for eachother.

Mike Windu = need to work on enhancing that imagination of yours :p

Mike Windu
09-16-2005, 10:59 PM
I had doubts it would be played on that dvd remote.

and I was right.

and to quote Squidward:

"I have more imagination in 1 tentacle, than you two have in your entire bodies!"

:p

Lynk Former
09-16-2005, 11:10 PM
I can't wait till Smash Bros Revolution is finally revealed and you eat your own words :D

shukrallah
09-16-2005, 11:39 PM
I like the shell idea. So... pretty much, if its simular to the above, it will play like a GCN controller? Possibly with the tilting and stuff too?

I really don't mind the features, just the look, and feel. I don't know, I mean, they design controllers in a shape that fits your hand, thats why they aren't rectangular. But I guess the shell will do.

coupes.
09-16-2005, 11:41 PM
Any racing Fans ? :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/coupes/pics/revolution_wheel_s.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/coupes/pics/revolution_wheel.jpg)
Click for larger version

Mike Windu
09-16-2005, 11:45 PM
That's pretty hot. :D

Now give me a stick shift analog thingie and I'll be set.

Lynk Former
09-16-2005, 11:46 PM
@ steering wheel: that's so cool.

Also, The shell controller will have to be different from the standard GCN setup seeing as it's gonna have to cater to the N64, SNES and NES

El Sitherino
09-17-2005, 01:12 AM
Now that my friends, is hot.

coupes.
09-17-2005, 02:48 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v507/mousedown/revo.swf

Lynk Former
09-17-2005, 07:31 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/lynk/revolution_gamepad.jpg

XD

acdcfanbill
09-17-2005, 04:31 PM
it might be something totally new if you can play gcn, n64, snes, and nes games on it. melding the snes, n64, and gcn controllers into one might be interesting :D

IG-64
09-17-2005, 04:41 PM
You know, what they could do is just make a round attachment that has all the ports in it. :p

Lynk Former
09-17-2005, 07:57 PM
What I posted is one controller with a GCN-like setup, and 6 N64 style face buttons. The difference is that those 6 buttons are LCD buttons which change depending on what game you're playing, if it's a NES game you get the NES setup, an N64 game and the buttons will change to the N64 setup. No removable crap, cause you'll end up losing the addons.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9654/lightgun9tz.jpg

Bob Lion54
09-17-2005, 10:19 PM
Keep the pics comming!!

Each one makes me more exited.

The "gun pic" makes me want to play Duck Hunt! I hope they have a Revolution version of the game......hehehe.

With all the add ons, Nintendo has so many options. Where as X-Box and PS3 are stuck with one setup, though they could make different style controlers later. I'm really starting to get a good feeling about this.

Lynk Former
09-17-2005, 10:57 PM
1. Mattel Intellivision Controller (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/intv.html)
2. ColecoVision Controller (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/coleco.html)
3. Atari 5200 Controller (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/5200.html)
4. Atari 7800 Controller (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/7800.html)
5. Nintendo Revolution Controller (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/revolution.html)

:D

Source: Controller Family Tree (http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/index.html)

ZBomber
09-17-2005, 11:38 PM
I know which system I'll be buying!

I can't wait to continue to watch it's progress!

shukrallah
09-17-2005, 11:42 PM
Meh, done some more thinking.

Revolution:

While the price may be low (probably $200) you'll spend a lot of money buying different shells. Waste of time, effort, and money. Good idea... but... yeah.

Other Consoles:

True, higher price. I'll wait a while to buy them (well, the PS3... not the 360) In the long run, I only need one controller to run all games.

Lynk Former
09-18-2005, 12:24 AM
The Next Generation
When Nintendo first announced that they were working on a next generation console called the "Revolution" it was the first time that they had hinted that they were going to be making something that would change the face of gaming so much that it would be the equivalent of what the NES achieved back when it was released. Those who knew what Nintendo was capable of were very interested; people were talking, trying to figure out what Nintendo was getting at. The sceptics were talking too, though in a more negative tone. However, it was clear that it started the ball rolling. Nintendo were up to something and no one knew what.


E3 2005
While Sony and Microsoft were both in full force showing off their powerful next generation consoles, Nintendo tried to stay as low key as possible. However, we all knew that Nintendo would reveal some part of the Revolution to us and they did. A single small black console with perty lights and promises of a bright future was what was revealed to us. Sceptics became even more sceptical and those who had more of an open mind wanted more answers. Nintendo made it clear that they would not be following the same path as Sony and Microsoft, that they would break away and create a new experience. Yet again, Nintendo stated that they would try to change the face of gaming, but at the same time they also stated that they would honour the 20 years of history that have come before this Revolution. The announcement of the virtual backwards compatibility feature was a clear shock. Was this the so-called Revolution they were talking about? Not at all. Nintendo wanted to let the world know that the next generation console would honour the old traditions just as well as their past consoles. Nintendo representatives echoed this in interviews after the conference, stating that the Revolution will be able to play traditional games while at the same time break the mould. But how? For months people wondered, coming up with wild ideas. Some people had a good idea of what Nintendo was going to come up with. But when it did finally hit us months later, none of us expected it to be what it is.

The Controller
A couple of days ago we finally saw the Nintendo Revolution controller. When everyone finally saw it they all thought the same thing, "WTF?" however as the images, information and videos finally sank in, half of the field began to realise that this THING that looked more like a remote control would change the way we play games forever. After that, half of the field got over the fact that there were less buttons, analog sticks, etc on that controller. They began to imagine the possibilities of what could be achieved with such a device. In the middle, there are still a lot of people who are either confused or waiting to try the controller out for themselves before they commit to anything. Then on the other side of things, you have the people who hate what they see. After all, it's not like anything they have ever seen before. How am I supposed to play with a remote control? Why couldn't Nintendo just do what Sony and Microsoft are doing? Nintendo is teh d00med! Almost all of their fears are valid to a certain extent of course. I understand where these people are coming from seeing as that 100% of the field thought the same "WTF?!" when they first saw the controller. Even with mixed reactions from the people, one thing was clear; every game played on the Revolution would be controlled in a way that has never been done before. This brings us back to E3 2005 when Nintendo spent much of their time making it clear that they would honour the efforts of the last 20 years of gaming. It was smart of Nintendo to reinforce that they would still support traditional gaming, especially after seeing how different the future looks. Again, in the keynote speech and in interviews held after the speech, Nintendo representatives echoed the fact that they would still allow players to experience traditional gaming using the Revolution controllerís expansion port. Legacy games and ports would still be playable. I'm sure many people gave out a sigh of relief after that was confirmed.


Back to the Future
So now here we are, we have seen what the console pretty much looks like and we have seen what the controller looks like and some of how it plays. But there is still A LOT we don't know about the Revolution, from basic things like hardware specs to more important things such as the games themselves. Many people are wondering if the Revolution will be able to compete with the level of graphical technology the PS3 and Xbox360 offers. But when I think about it, there is a lot more that Nintendo haven't told us. Is the Revolution controller their trump card, or is there more that we haven't seen? I find it interesting that even after all of this the Nintendo reps are still hinting at the fact that Nintendo still has a lot more to show off, and I'm not talking about pricing, specs and release dates. No, it does feel like there is something more to be shown in the future. But what?... Will their traditional controller expansion have LCD action buttons that adapt depending on what game you're playing?

The Nintendo Revolution is set for a late 2006 release date and we are still in the dark about a lot of what the Revolution has to offer. What are you hiding Nintendo?
__________________

While the price may be low (probably $200) you'll spend a lot of money buying different shells. Waste of time, effort, and money. Good idea... but... yeah.
At the moment it looks like you would only need 2 expansions, 1 of which we know will come with the Revolution console. The Analog expansion and the classic gamepad expansion which will be able to play all existing traditional formats, from legacy games to ports from other next-gen consoles.

Anything extra would be just like the Bongo's or something like that, but the majority of developers will most likely go for the Rev Controller + Analog Expansion setup. It's not like you'd have to buy an expansion for every different game you buy XD

True, higher price. I'll wait a while to buy them (well, the PS3... not the 360) In the long run, I only need one controller to run all games.
You only need one controller to run all games for the Revolution too XD But then also to take full advantage of a PS3 or Xbox360 you'd have to have an uber expensive high definition home entertainment system, something most people don't have in the first place.

coupes.
09-18-2005, 12:54 AM
Meh, done some more thinking.

Revolution:
While the price may be low (probably $200) you'll spend a lot of money buying different shells. Waste of time, effort, and money. Good idea... but... yeah.
Like Lynky said, there's really only 2 add-ons that'll be necessary to play all the games, the analog joystic add-on (for nunchuck-style gameplay) and the "traditionnal controller" shell. The analog joystic will most likely come with the standard controller, and the controller shell will only be used for backward compatibility issues and for playing [basic] ports from other consoles. The rest of the shells are only us fans immagining all the possibilities. If there are more shells, they'll most likely be optionnal and simply enhance the gaming experience. Much like you would buy a steering wheel to play Grand Turismo whil you could very well do it with the stabdard controller.

Lynk Former
09-18-2005, 01:02 AM
And even if you do buy a Steering wheel shell, it's no different from buying an actual steering wheel accessory available for current generation consoles so what's the problem?


XD It's really nice thinking about the Revolution, cause when you buy one, you won't just be buying a Revolution, but you'll be buying a GameCube, a Nintendo 64, a SNES and a NES all over again. And for those of you who don't think that legacy games are a factor, I think you're misinformed. There are a lot of people who have stopped playing videogames who will jump at the chance to get back and play the original Super Mario or the original Zelda all over again. I for one can't wait to get my hands on Super Metroid and a tonne of old N64 games I used to play and even better are the games I've missed out on because I couldn't find the time or money to buy them. I get a second chance thanks to Nintendo :D

coupes.
09-18-2005, 01:18 AM
And even if you do buy a Steering wheel shell, it's no different from buying an actual steering wheel accessory available for current generation consoles so what's the problem?Actually, there's a small difference in the sense that when you buy a new shell, it's just that, a shell. Most of the technology will already be included in the Revolution controller wheras a traditionnal steering wheel, for example, is a new controller in itself. Shells would probably be pretty cheap to produce since they could be relatively low-tech. Some of the shells might actually be included with games if they are really essential to gameplay. In the N64 times, I bought Star Fox w/ Rumble Pack and Perfect Dark w/ Memory Expansion cartridge for the price of regular games, so it's quite possible we'll see something similar for the Revolution.

Lynk Former
09-18-2005, 01:25 AM
That is true, it would definately make official and third party expansions a lot cheaper. It will also be interesting as to what kind of expansions are created, because it won't be just steering wheels and gamepad shells. The n64 had the ability to add on the rumble pack, memory pack and transfer pack... so what other goodies can we expect?

abespam
09-18-2005, 10:38 AM
nintendo were quick to say how the peripheral port was important.. so im guessing heaps of goodies. What really impresses me is the fact that they till have things to hide. It was impressive to see that one person could wield 2 controllers. But in one of the interviews i read, the interviewer was complaining that 4 controller ports werent enuf, and then the person who was being interviewed seem to be holding back info on this. Cant wait to see what else nintendo have up their sleeves.

@boblion: u can play the original nes version of duck hunt.. backwards compatibilty sweetness

Lynk Former
09-18-2005, 11:27 AM
When Nintendo said that they would incorporate 20 years worth of Nintendo gaming history they weren't just talking about the virtual backwards compatibility. I'll explain...

Online: The NES went online back in the late 80s. But of course, everyone is online these days so it's not that big a deal. XD But it brings me to the next point...

Game Downloads: The download service isn't a new thing from Nintendo; the first time Nintendo tried, it was with the SNES. In Japan, they had an expansion device called the Bantai-Satellaview.

http://www.snesweb.nl/accessoires/bsx.jpg

It used a satellite so obviously, it wasn't great for real-time online gameplay but it was great for downloading revamped NES titles such as Zelda and Mario. It didn't do so well seeing as the technology at the time was very lacking... this was an era before the Internet had become an active part of life so you know how it goes. I think the funniest part was that because it relied on a satellite you could only use it at a certain time of the day lol.

Motion Sensing: Remember the power glove? Big failure back then, but the principle is back again in a new and easier to accept form. Another failure, but this time it has promise thanks to the new format and new generation.

http://members.aol.com/gallery7v/oj3.jpg

Expandable controller: The N64 was the first controller with this option, then the Dreamcast which expanded on that idea and then the Xbox... well after it skipped a generation (GCN), it's back in the Revolution. The N64 expansions included the personal Memory Paks, the Rumble Pak and the Transfer Pak. The Revolution has the potential to do a lot more. And of course, duh, the Rumble feature returns, but who didn't know that lol.

http://www.vgmusic.com/faq/gallery/misc/N64-RumblePak-Controller.jpg

Many of their other advancements are obvious because they can already be seen in the Nintendo DS and the GameCube and Wavebird.






EDIT:And on another note

The Positive (http://gamesfirst.com/?id=682)
The Negative (http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=9137)

XD

Lynk Former
09-19-2005, 04:18 AM
Because of the 3D mouse capabilities the Revolution controller features it could out perform PC games in terms of control now.

toms
09-19-2005, 08:22 AM
I'm not completely convinced about this "controller shell" idea. I'm sure it will be great for old games (if you don't have a GCN controller handy already) but I'm slightly worried that by announcing it already they are going to make a lot of set-in-their-ways gamers and developers think "ah, i can just ignore that weird remote thing and play it like any other console".
It would suck if all the games and ports started coming out needing the "controller shell" addon and that because a kind of standard.

While this controller has some potential for games like FPS and RTS, the main potential has to be for other games like sport and music games. If you watch the video it becomes how clear it might be for games like drumming, tennis, golf, volleyball, etc.. Any activities that involve some kind of arm movement could be made into really good games if this tech works right.
A golf game on the REV where you swing the controller and it maps onto your onscreen swing would be lightyears ahead of one where you press a button or move an analogue stick. Same goes for tennis, where you could control power, direction and spin all by simply swinging and rotating the controller.
Personally i'm looking forward to a Tony hawks type game where you actually have to balance on rails, etc..

I can't see it being better than a mouse for RTS, but it should be nearly as good. It could lead to a more immersive, dynamic experience though, where you just point at your troops and motion them off in a direction. For FPS witht he analogue stick (which is where the Z button is BTW) it should be excellent. Driving games too, just hold it loke the NES controler and rotate. I don't quite get why they don't stick 4 buttons on the controller though to make SNES compatibility better.

Fighting games (like the only confirmed launch title, SSB) is going to be interesting though.... not entirely sure how that will work. I guess they mightbe planning something totally new. Ay ideas?

Lynk Former
09-19-2005, 08:45 AM
I'm not completely convinced about this "controller shell" idea. I'm sure it will be great for old games (if you don't have a GCN controller handy already) but I'm slightly worried that by announcing it already they are going to make a lot of set-in-their-ways gamers and developers think "ah, i can just ignore that weird remote thing and play it like any other console".
It would suck if all the games and ports started coming out needing the "controller shell" addon and that because a kind of standard.
Ithink it's obvious that Nintendo knows that they're walking a fine line with this. Not in an overly negative way mind you... I mean back in the days of the NES, no one was expecting anything, today people are expecting a lot and there are already a lot of established "guides" that are in place that work. Nintendo wants to initiate a new generation of games that are played differently but not at the cost of 20 years worth of already established gaming evolution. Most of which they are responsible for.

It is true, a lot of people and developers are set in their ways, and I think it's smart of Nintendo not to completely dismiss them simply to convert everyone onto this new form of gameplay. That being said, I still think that developers would take advantage of the Revolution controller to tweak and enhance certain ports without the need for a traditional gamepad expansion.

Another thing to consider is that the people who will buy a Revolution are the people who want a new way to play games, and those people who want to be able to play traditionally controlled games can either buy an entirely different console or simply buy an expansion to the Revolution controller which in the end turns out to be cheaper than buying a whole other console.

It will be interesting to see how it does play out though. I know for sure when the Revolution does come out I'll be buying as many games and accessories I can afford with it.


While this controller has some potential for games like FPS and RTS, the main potential has to be for other games like sport and music games. If you watch the video it becomes how clear it might be for games like drumming, tennis, golf, volleyball, etc.. Any activities that involve some kind of arm movement could be made into really good games if this tech works right.
A golf game on the REV where you swing the controller and it maps onto your onscreen swing would be lightyears ahead of one where you press a button or move an analogue stick. Same goes for tennis, where you could control power, direction and spin all by simply swinging and rotating the controller.
Personally i'm looking forward to a Tony hawks type game where you actually have to balance on rails, etc...
Coupes, Sithy and I have been talking about all the different possibilities for the Revolution controller on MSN for a few of days now and we've come up with so many possible game ideas, both existing traditionally or similar games to the DS to games that haven't been made yet but should. The controller has a lot of possibilities to it, it's just a matter of getting smart developers to get in there and have a go at making something.


Fighting games (like the only confirmed launch title, SSB) is going to be interesting though.... not entirely sure how that will work. I guess they mightbe planning something totally new. Ay ideas?
I think a lot of people are holding their breaths over that.



EDIT: You now that I think about it...

REVOLUTION CONTROLLER
Pointer = Move/Jump/Crouch/Etc
A = Attacks
B = Special Attacks
D-Pad down = Taunt

ANALOG EXPANSION
Analog Stick = Smash (up, down, left, right)
Z1 = Shield
Z2 = Grab


XD I mean if you're thinking of doing it the traditional way

jokemaster
09-20-2005, 08:49 PM
........LEC HAS to make a lightsaber game of some kind for this.

TiE23
09-20-2005, 09:22 PM
I just dont like the idea of this kind of a controller. I dont know about you, but I like just being able to Halo 2, Forza Motorsport, Burnout Revenge, and (soon) Oblivion. Using a strange controller like that just doesn't comply with me.

Just sit at your TV and point and swing around your remote around, its rather akward.

I'll just stick to my Xbox and PCs. :p

Lynk Former
09-20-2005, 09:28 PM
Who said you have to swing it around like in the ad? It could just take small movements similar to that of a mouse.

StriderPrime00
09-20-2005, 09:52 PM
I post this somewhere else, but I think you guys might enjoy this.

Hi everyone, I was thinking about Nintendo's new controller and the possibility of a jedi knight game on it. Here is a concept image of the game I came up with it. If the game designers of lucasarts are reading, please consider this idea.

http://www.nintogo.com/images/games/Revolution%20Light%20Saber.png
http://www.nintogo.com/images/games/Jedi-Control-Concept.jpg

Using 2 rev free-style controller would be best. Unless, Nintendo comes out with an accessory to allow you to attach a head unit. That way, you can do all the free look with your head, while swining with 1 hand, and moving with the analog attachment. Or have the 2 Wands as initially discussed, but this time, use them as dual sabers and use the head attachment for freelook. Too many ideas in my head.

http://www.nintogo.com/images/games/fight1.png
http://www.nintogo.com/images/games/Fight2.png

With a far away attacker, the target symbol will be faint or not visible, as you get closer to the attacker, their target indicator will start to become visible before they even fire their weapon. This way, it gives you a chance to defend against up close attacks. The blocker does not need to be dead center on the target to block, but if they can do that, they are rewarded by reflecting the attack back at the attacker. The developer can also play around with adjusting the Target size. I would guess that on a harder level, the target indicator will be smaller. On an easy level, the target will be large with slower bullets flying at you.

Sniper Rifle attacks can be spotted using Force See. The indicator would then be completely opaque because their bullets are instant hits.

On a one on one game, I think small wrist twist attacks will do less damage, but big circular swings will have the ability to knock back blocking players. You can also easily parry attacks when a big circular swing hits against a small attacks.

Equal strength and area attacks should end up in a saber lock, where the player has to shake the controller in relative space. An onscreen indicator will let you know if you are winning the saber lock and tell you when you should start twisting your saber away from you. Basically, if you can shake faster and follow the timing of the twist indicator, you can win the saber lock.

Mike Windu
09-20-2005, 10:07 PM
REVOLUTION CONTROLLER
Pointer = Move/Jump/Crouch/Etc


I think that would better applied to dodging and such. Movement/jump/crouch should be used with the analog. Otherwise I don't think it will give the same amount of precision control needed for SSB.

:p

Lynk Former
09-20-2005, 11:34 PM
XD Remember we talked about this and I proposed a control scheme like the one you just suggested and you told me it wouldn't work either.

TiE23
09-21-2005, 12:48 AM
But still, its just still way too goofy to be waving a remote control around for half an hour, in a $50 game. Its weird.

ET Warrior
09-21-2005, 01:13 AM
But still, its just still way too goofy to be waving a remote control around for half an hour, in a $50 game. Its weird.Sounds like a case of the closed-minded gamer emerging.

Doesn't matter to me if you think it'd be weird/embarassing/whatever. I think the potential for amazing immersion in the games is what will draw me in. I mean, you can ACTUALLY SWING YOUR SWORD. That right there sells me. If anyone makes a game that properly utilizes it, there's no way you'll keep me from buying one.

coupes.
09-21-2005, 01:27 AM
Zelda : Revolution

*drools*

I mean, they had to have Zelda in mind when they were designing the controller, so I bet they'll make a very good use of the controller for that game.

Kain
09-21-2005, 01:56 AM
WOW!! All those shells to make it compatible with players who don't want to change to remote style! Thats awesome! THATS A TOTAL WASTE OF F'ING MONEY!!!

:p

it really is

coupes.
09-21-2005, 01:59 AM
WOW!! I guess you didn't read the thread at all. :rolleyes:

Lynk Former
09-21-2005, 02:55 AM
With people like these you can tell that we're gonna have the same Dualshock setup for every controller except Nintendo's in the next 50 years.

Kain
09-21-2005, 03:51 AM
WOW!! I guess you didn't read the thread at all. :rolleyes:

Hmm...I completly despise Nintendo and all its creations...so why would I take the time to read an entire thread dedicated to it when it'd be so much easier to scroll through it and comment on a single thing?

Have fun with your remote control though. I'll stick to something that makes sense.

coupes.
09-21-2005, 04:24 AM
Hmm...I completly despise Nintendo and all its creations...so why would I take the time to read an entire thread dedicated to it when it'd be so much easier to scroll through it and comment on a single thing?

Have fun with your remote control though. I'll stick to something that makes sense.By reading the thread instead of skipping to the end, you could have avoided to make a fool out of yourself by posting about stuff you don't know **** about.

And please drop the "superiority act", it's getting old.

toms
09-21-2005, 06:57 AM
A lightsaber game has the potential to be awesome. It would be like what they tried (and failed) to do with the mouse in the original Obi-wan game idea. Or like they attempted in Die By the Sword.

For games like FPS, flight sims and driving games I don't think you are going to need to be waving the controller around, you can just sit with your arms resing on your legs as you would with a normal controler, and simply rotate at the wrist like you would with a joystick or mouse. It just you will be able to do it in more axes.

However for games like sports games its likely that the movement will be bigger, as they will be trying to simulate the movements of the sport.

The major success of Eye Toy and Dance Mat games implies that a lot of people are quite happy to wave their arms around and make big movements when playing games.

Of course it all depends on how it works, but now I've started thinking about it the potential for a cool lightsaber game is huge. I'm going to decend into my own twisted mind for a while and imagine it...

El Sitherino
09-21-2005, 07:07 AM
I've been saying since the moment they announced it, "Just imagine a jedi knight game...".

So yeah. I hope they do make one, that'd be so sweet.

One thing I've noticed, a lot of stupid questions are seeming to get asked about the revolution controller. Possibly the stupidest one I've read would be "what if you throw the controller while swinging it?"

It's called gripping, that's like asking "omg wut if he throwz teh swrodz wiel swingn at dat 1 guy ovr theer?".

Lynk Former
09-21-2005, 07:12 AM
I forsee Nintendo releasing the Revolution with Super Mario Bros and Duck Hunt already in the 512MB SD card. :D

ET Warrior
09-21-2005, 08:30 AM
so why would I take the time to read an entire thread dedicated to it when it'd be so much easier to scroll through it and comment on a single thing?.
Because then maybe your posts would be relevant instead of your high-horse superiority complexed flame-baiting.

Nobody here cares if you despise nintendo or any of it's creations, despite the fact that you wouldn't be playing your "video games that make sense" if it weren't for the big N.

This is a thread discussing the revolution and it's controller. If you want to contribute, read the thread, and then have an opinion. Throwing out blanket statements based on a few snippets of thread does nothing, since you obviously didn't even fully understand what you were commenting on.

Kain
09-21-2005, 11:16 AM
Who said anything about a superiority act? Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion about something.

And besides: Nintendo wouldn't have jack without Atari, which wouldn't have jack without arcade machines, which wouldn't have jack without Pong

ET Warrior
09-21-2005, 11:57 AM
Looks to me like it was coupes and myself who said something about a superiority act. It has nothing to do with you having a different opinion. Plenty have come in with differing opinions.

And just because Nintendo built on older video games, doesn't mean your "sensical" video games would exist without them.

toms
09-21-2005, 01:20 PM
Microsoft likes it, so it must be good!!! ;)
http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com/fe/news/ae-2284fe.html

Prime
09-21-2005, 01:42 PM
And besides: Nintendo wouldn't have jack without Atari, which wouldn't have jack without arcade machines, which wouldn't have jack without PongWhat does that have to do with anything? That logic can be applied to any technology. And PS2 wouldn't have jack without PS1. Hell, Pong wouldn't have jack without TV's, which wouldn't have jack without electricity, which wouldn't have jack without physics.

Kain
09-21-2005, 01:59 PM
Alright alright since my post about the shells seemed to cause an uproar, let me rephrase it: I personally think that its a stupid concept and that is my brutally honost opinion.

El Sitherino
09-21-2005, 02:41 PM
Well so far there's only one shell. The others are concepts made by fans.

shukrallah
09-21-2005, 04:21 PM
But still, its just still way too goofy to be waving a remote control around for half an hour, in a $50 game. Its weird.

Yeah, thats why im just going to get the shell. I can play with something that acts like a controller, forget waving my "remote" around.

El Sitherino
09-21-2005, 04:26 PM
something that acts like a controller
Wait, what?

Prime
09-21-2005, 05:27 PM
Alright alright since my post about the shells seemed to cause an uproar, let me rephrase it: I personally think that its a stupid concept and that is my brutally honost opinion.That's better.

Bob Lion54
09-21-2005, 07:14 PM
One thing I've noticed, a lot of stupid questions are seeming to get asked about the revolution controller. Possibly the stupidest one I've read would be "what if you throw the controller while swinging it?"

It's called gripping, that's like asking "omg wut if he throwz teh swrodz wiel swingn at dat 1 guy ovr theer?".
hehehe

I can see someone playing Zelda and trying to throw the boomerang!
"AARRGG!!!!, I BROKE THE TV!!"

hehe

toms
09-22-2005, 07:48 AM
There is a really cool, but quite long and detailed look at innovatinon in the games industry, genre contraction and the revolution approach here: http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html

I got the link from Penny Arcade, but I think its been slashdotted and linked to from various other places as well, so don't be surprised if it goes down.

IG-64
09-22-2005, 10:19 AM
Possibly the stupidest one I've read would be "what if you throw the controller while swinging it?"

Actually, I was at my friend's house the other day, and was telling him about the controller. I picked up his tv remote and told him to try it out. He started swinging it around and then it slipped out of his hand and on to the floor. I just said "I hope they make it durable." :p

toms
09-22-2005, 11:48 AM
The one possible flaw with the design is that ergonomics seem to have been sacrificed for clean i-podesque lines. It does look lovely, but I hope they make sure it is comfortable and has a decent grip as well. Maybe they need rubber gripping on the back or something.

I'm still fantasising about a JK game, but on a tangent I had the thought that the first-person saber combat of Star Wars Trilogy Arcade would rock with that controller. It'd be a nice game to port over to the revolution. THAT got me thinking that the REV controller would be really great for games like SWT Arcade and Rogue Leader/Strike (or even Rebel Assualt) where you have several different genres combined into one game.

You could have a joystick type control for the flying part, a horizontal steering-wheel type control for ground-based driving parts, a point and look based bit for FPS shooter and a swing-like-a-sword bit for saber combat. Plus several others as well.

PS/ I'd really recommend that article I posted above, it makes sense of nintendo's sometime-odd seeming strategy... and shows why both nintendo type companies and MS type companies need each other.

ET Warrior
09-22-2005, 12:05 PM
Actually, I was at my friend's house the other day, and was telling him about the controller. I picked up his tv remote and told him to try it out. He started swinging it around and then it slipped out of his hand and on to the floor. I just said "I hope they make it durable." :p
Of course, your typical TV remote is a lot wider than the revolution controller, plus there's the added trigger on the back to give you a firmer hold on it. I think you'd have to be swinging it as hard as you can and not holding on very well for it to slip out.

IG-64
09-22-2005, 12:33 PM
Of course, your typical TV remote is a lot wider than the revolution controller, plus there's the added trigger on the back to give you a firmer hold on it. I think you'd have to be swinging it as hard as you can and not holding on very well for it to slip out.

Actually I think it was a dvd remote, it looked about the right size, and I told him how to hold it right, and he wasn't swinging it as hard as he could. I think there will be accidents if you're prompted to swing it around and aren't carefull. Hopefully they'll make it durable enough.

By the way, I still think it's awesome. :p

Lynk Former
09-22-2005, 11:25 PM
The one possible flaw with the design is that ergonomics seem to have been sacrificed for clean i-podesque lines. It does look lovely, but I hope they make sure it is comfortable and has a decent grip as well. Maybe they need rubber gripping on the back or something.
I dunno, I understand the shape of the Revolution controller and think it looks VERY comfortable. Pretend you're holding it in your hand right now and look through the gab, it's basically the shape that the Revolution controller is. Plus it doesn't take that much to grip and to add to that the way the trigger area is set gives you more grip so it won't just fly out of your hand from the front. And it's impossible from the back unless you have the weakest grip recorded for any human EVER.

El Sitherino
09-27-2005, 11:44 AM
So i was just thinking. If people can play games on their mobiles, they're surely capable of playing games with the Revolution controller.

Also put into perspective that this "remote" was designed specifically with playing games in mind, unlike the mobile. Therefore there's no reason to think you can't play games with this.

shukrallah
09-27-2005, 10:46 PM
Wait, what?


Errr... I meant feels like a controller. I mean, I don't think I will have to wave a shell around.

So i was just thinking. If people can play games on their mobiles, they're surely capable of playing games with the Revolution controller.

Aren't they 2D and really simplistic? Like, "Get to the right side of the screen" types of games?

Of course, your typical TV remote is a lot wider than the revolution controller, plus there's the added trigger on the back to give you a firmer hold on it. I think you'd have to be swinging it as hard as you can and not holding on very well for it to slip out.


I don't think it will have to swung hard. A lot of people are thinking this will lead to crazy sword fights and stuff, but I doubt it. You know - move the controller and the player's sword follows pretty much. It just won't work right, or it will look stupid on screen. I just can't imagine swinging my hand violently and pressing buttons at the same time...

FPSs on the other hand, will be really cool...

ET Warrior
09-27-2005, 10:50 PM
All I want it for is the sword fighting. Everything else is a secondary perk. If they implement sword fighting properly I will never leave my living room...I realize I may sound like a broken record...but SWORD. FIGHTING. *dies*

shukrallah
09-27-2005, 10:57 PM
I just don't see how they would implement it without it being dumb. I mean, you would need rotation and some kind of force detection and stuff...

What defines you just raising the sword up, and swinging it, where damage is concerned? Will there be premade anims, and you just move the controller in a direction that triggers and anim, or will the sword be "connected" to the controller?

I gave this a lot of thought and figured I could copy the idea with a mouse. It won't work... In all honesty, this controller is nothing more than a mouse with motion detection.

I mean, I was studying (with blender... Blender can make full 3D games... with a bit of work... all for free...) I was studying examples of how people got guns to follow the mouse and figured it would be cool to implement with a sword (move the mouse down, the sword would move down, up and the sword would move up... etc)

In the end, I came to the conclusion, its just not going to work, without a bunch of sensors. Unless there are premade animations. But then that totally defeats the purpose of swinging the "controller/sword." You might as well be pressing A...

Mike Windu
09-27-2005, 11:08 PM
There are motion sensors.

And this is movement in a 3d plane. Therefore any vertical/horizontal swings may be accurately translated to slashes.

shukrallah
09-27-2005, 11:15 PM
I know all of that. But your totally missing the point.

EDIT: your pretty much describing motion capture. Motion capture on a 3d plane requires multiple sensors... this "controller" only has one sending a singal.

That tells me its set up like a co-ordinate plane... with X and Y axis. If these sensors can't detect a z axis, or some sort of detph, then sword play would suck.. bad.

ET Warrior
09-27-2005, 11:49 PM
It obviously HAS three dimensions of motion detection. They explained that the demos could detect the controller moving closer or away, in addition to the up, down and sideways motions. Since they have that kind of detection, you could merely have the controller acting as your hilt, and respond accordingly.

IG-64
09-28-2005, 12:29 AM
I gave this a lot of thought and figured I could copy the idea with a mouse. It won't work... In all honesty, this controller is nothing more than a mouse with motion detection.

A mouse is totally diffrent. A mouse is confined to your table, which usually isn't that much space to work with. It feels clumsy and theres only one plane of movement. With the revolution controller, you can just pick it up and swing it around.

Mike Windu
09-28-2005, 12:51 AM
I know all of that. But your totally missing the point.

EDIT: your pretty much describing motion capture. Motion capture on a 3d plane requires multiple sensors... this "controller" only has one sending a singal.

That tells me its set up like a co-ordinate plane... with X and Y axis. If these sensors can't detect a z axis, or some sort of detph, then sword play would suck.. bad.
....

"Demo #2: Fishing
Much more advanced than just a simple cursor, this revealed how the controller can navigate a 3D space, moving an object on the TV screen not only left, right, up, and down, but also forward and backwards with depth. Players simply use the hand cursor on the screen to pick up a fishing pole and dip its line into a pond full of fish. Like nearly all of the demos, this was very crude, so don't go imagining fishing on the Ocarina of Time level just yet -- this was like a coloring book with flat fish in the water. The visual medium wasn't the point, though. It was pretty intuitive to just reach forward with our virtual hand, pick up the rod, and then dip the hook into the pond and dangle it there. When a fish finally bit, the remote rumbled, which was the cue to tug back on the controller to catch it. As it was only a prototype controller, it was wired because rumble was not in the wireless versions yet."

The sensor detects movement on all axes, not just x and y, making "throwing" a line in the fishing demo possible.

This is what separates the Revolution from an EyeToy, which only detects movement on 2d planes.

TiE23
09-28-2005, 01:08 AM
I dunno, I understand the shape of the Revolution controller and think it looks VERY comfortable. Pretend you're holding it in your hand right now and look through the gab, it's basically the shape that the Revolution controller is. Plus it doesn't take that much to grip and to add to that the way the trigger area is set gives you more grip so it won't just fly out of your hand from the front. And it's impossible from the back unless you have the weakest grip recorded for any human EVER.
Thats how other controllers are like. The rev controller is like a one-handed, laser-pointing, tilt-sensitive Xbox controller. Its not that big of a deal.

Lynk Former
09-28-2005, 01:14 AM
Thats how other controllers are like. The rev controller is like a one-handed, laser-pointing, tilt-sensitive Xbox controller. Its not that big of a deal.

eh? O.o


@ lukeskywalker1: It's funny how you can't image how games would work using a traditional state of mind you have with games. I think that's why Nintendo wants to push forward with this sort of technology. It's time to stop thinking of what can't be done with the old way of doing things.

The developers who aren't just in it for the cash will definaely be able to make some really good games with the Revolution, though it is kinda obvious that at first it's going to have to be Nintendo to lead the way with their own franchises before anyone else really picks up the new way of doing things and really runs with it. Everyone is just too used to how it was done before in the old days.

El Sitherino
09-28-2005, 07:25 AM
Aren't they 2D and really simplistic? Like, "Get to the right side of the screen" types of games?
There are also 3d games, fps', etc.

PoM
09-28-2005, 10:05 AM
Hmm..Revolution.

*Faints*

Eh, if there are SW games with swordfighting by swinging the controller...They're mine!

*Imagines a SW game with lightsaber figting online...Whoa...*

Whoa! Then you'd actually have to be good!
Otherwise you're pwned online!

shukrallah
10-01-2005, 08:38 PM
It obviously HAS three dimensions of motion detection. They explained that the demos could detect the controller moving closer or away, in addition to the up, down and sideways motions. Since they have that kind of detection, you could merely have the controller acting as your hilt, and respond accordingly.

Ah, ok, I didn't know that.

toms
10-03-2005, 12:59 PM
I dunno how many sensors are in the remote itself... There are two ( or maybe more) sensors that sit on either side of the tv. It should be able to use these to work out the relative position of the unit... then maybe sensors in the machine itself to work out its orientation.

toms
10-19-2005, 11:45 AM
Mindblowing... (apparently)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1118338-2,00.html

[edit] though i think the composite plane and the fishy fries count as more mindblowing...

PoM
10-19-2005, 12:58 PM
Yay! The N-Rev is mind-blowing!


*Needs the rev*