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REDJOHNNYMIKE
09-16-2005, 03:34 AM
Ok, one thing that always bugs me is that the character always (with a few exceptions) look the same, same haircut, same clothes, same tanlines;)

So my question is,
Is it possible to define character models and textures based on plot progress?

Say for example, After you finish one level or get past a large gap between main plot points, there is an asumed amount of time passed, so why can't characters get haircuts, buy new clothes and work on their tans during that time,
I know it would multiply texture editing time, but is it actually possible to do this and actually have it fit seamlessly in a story mod?

T7nowhere
09-16-2005, 12:21 PM
You could change a characters appearance fairly easy with a couple scripts, It all depends on the situation and how often you want them to be changed. You would how ever have to create a new appearance for each transition that you want. Also there are 30 original PC's to choose from so if you wanted to make a viable mod you would have to take that into account.

The_Maker
09-16-2005, 01:20 PM
If you're completely dedicated to something like that then yes it would be possible but I don't think ANYONE on these forums is willing to waste... erm, "use" that much time on a mod that just makes it look better to you :whacked:

ubercarl
09-16-2005, 03:47 PM
it definately would be a huge pain, but what about 1 transition for the flashback scene? say, if all the heads you start with had grey hair or a scar or extra facial hair (for the boys ;-) or something and the flashback had the original hair? if i could figure out how to extract the head files (sorry i'm lame-o) i could give it a whack since it's a basic dye job. dunno.........

REDJOHNNYMIKE
09-17-2005, 12:22 AM
@T7, ok so it is possible to have characters change over the course of a story, I understand that more appearences=excessive work time on my part, but I'm fine with that.
What do you mean by taking the thirty PC's into account, just that you have many PCs to add to the list, or something else?

@the_maker, unless you haven't figured out by the question threads I'v been posting lately, I'm planning a complete TSL rewrite (hopefully more stuff than the original game) this is just one feature I want to use to "spice" the mod up, And as long as I get it done in time that people can finish it before KIII, then that's fine with me.

@ubercarl, no offense, but I don't understand what you mean, Flashback?

T7nowhere
09-17-2005, 01:14 AM
@T7, ok so it is possible to have characters change over the course of a story, I understand that more appearences=excessive work time on my part, but I'm fine with that.
What do you mean by taking the thirty PC's into account, just that you have many PCs to add to the list, or something else?


Ok, here's an example of how it could work you choose a moment in the game, like when the PC reaches level 15 and you change that PC's appearance, But in order to have a seamless shift you need to make sure that the players character changes to the appropriate transition. Noone wants the Obiwan wannabe to turn into the blonde female with the bun. So your script would have to check what appearance the PC is using and then switch it to the next stage for each model that you specify.

So if you want the effect to be global then you will need to make a transition for each of the original PC models, this would include a new head, a new row in appearance, a new row in portraites, then the texture transitions to make each transition. doing this for one character would be easy but to do this for all of them would be alot of work, not to mention the many PC mods that people could be useing. I'm not trying to dissuade you from doing this, but from what I gather from your first post is that you want the pc to have several transitions through out the game. Just one would be time consuming enough.

REDJOHNNYMIKE
09-17-2005, 01:35 AM
LOL, believe it or not, I'm wanting PC and all recruits, and many commonly encountered NPCs to be able to change, I don't know if I want recruits to be fixed or random, but It would be cool for the PC to be able to get a haircut or put on shades at will (for a small fee;) )

What I want is for it to be more like an actual movie, where characters actually changed clothes once in a while, and either let their hair grow to the floor or cut it, the whole idea is for more realistic immersion.

But if it does require all those scripts (which I know nothing about)
would the game speed be affected?

mattcrowston
09-17-2005, 02:13 AM
You could change a characters appearance fairly easy with a couple scripts, It all depends on the situation and how often you want them to be changed. You would how ever have to create a new appearance for each transition that you want. Also there are 30 original PC's to choose from so if you wanted to make a viable mod you would have to take that into account.

This thread is kinda similar to an idea I had. I was wondering if it was possible to implement a transition of head textures for just a single npc. The idea was for a character in a little story mod I'm working on. The character is part of a simple meet, talk, fight, die sequence. Not something that would be recurring throughout the game or anything. My idea differed slightly from redjohnnymike's. I wanted the transition to happen over a very short time(kind of a morphing, but just of the textures). Then followed perhaps by a deathscene where you can see the scars of the fight on their face. Ofcourse this sequence would be no more than 5 changes, just to keep if realistic. I figured if it was possible it would be done with scripts. I also figured that would mean a couple new heads.2da rows, couple appearance.2da rows. But would each transition need a new utc, or is it possible for the scripting to just shift the appearance setting of a single utc file. I have a couple interesting things floating around inside my head. And info or encouragement or even questions would be greatly appreciated. I hope my idea made sense the way I wrote it out. Thanks a lot.

Matt

T7nowhere
09-17-2005, 02:15 AM
For the things like hats sunglasses and the like can be made as masks. but things like changed hair would require an edited model. You can use Taina's Replacer tool to do that, but it has its limitations. For instance you wouldn't be able to give a bald PC hair, well thats not completely true you could use the exsisting polys to make it look like they have hair but you wouldn't be able to add flex meshes(wavy hair, appears to move in the wind) to the heads. and example of the best you could for a bald guy is this Zez (http://gallery68952.fotopic.net/p14014643.html) Keep in mind that was a joke and was made in 10 minutes, so it could be done much better. ;)

@mattcrowston, you wouldn't need a new utc, there is a scripting function that will allow you to change a characters appearance, but to do so during a fight is a little beyond my skill, but I'm betting one of our scripting masters could figure out a way to do that.

REDJOHNNYMIKE
09-17-2005, 02:28 AM
Ha, zez, I was picturing somekind of zabrak mohawk:D
that doesn't look to bad:)
that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, why can't he use czerka rogaine between main plot twists?:D

@MC, do you mean Shapeshifting, *whisper* are you possibly working on a scene from ROTS ;) zaaaaap

But that would be cool, I guess to achieve a morphing effect you'd have to have like 90 faces and load them really fast though

" I have a couple interesting things floating around inside my head."

Gaaaasp, someone else feels the same pain?:D

mattcrowston
09-17-2005, 02:29 AM
@mattcrowston, you wouldn't need a new utc, there is a scripting function that will allow you to change a characters appearance, but to do so during a fight is a little beyond my skill, but I'm betting one of our scripting masters could figure out a way to do that.

Thanks for the oh so fast reply T7. No new utc sounds awesome. And I don't require the transition to happen in battle. Rather before the battle starts, then followed by being beaten to almost dead. And when dialog restarts a script would fire showing the "deathscene" face. This doesn't sound too crazy does it?

Matt

T7nowhere
09-17-2005, 02:33 AM
This doesn't sound too crazy does it?

Matt

Nope not at all, you just have to create the right trigger for the scripts, I know you can set delays in the scripts in seconds, not sure if hundreds of seconds would work. But you could make the transition scripts fire though a dialog easily.

Ha, zez, I was picturing somekind of zabrak mohawk:D
that doesn't look to bad:)
that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about, why can't he use czerka rogaine between main plot twists?:D

You would still need to make the new appearance and trigger the transition, but if thats what your aiming for it can be done.

REDJOHNNYMIKE
09-17-2005, 02:38 AM
Is the flexible hair an editable model?
so you could make hair longer, but still move?

I definitely want to see Mira with her hair down:D
don't know if I can remove the headband though?

mattcrowston
09-17-2005, 02:41 AM
@MC, do you mean Shapeshifting, *whisper* are you possibly working on a scene from ROTS ;) zaaaaap

But that would be cool, I guess to achieve a morphing effect you'd have to have like 90 faces and load them really fast though

Sorry redjohnnymike, I can safely say that I am not working on anything that isn't my very own. But about the "morphing," I am not gonna go insane. Like I said about 5 texture transitions. Just something that is visual. I am not dreaming about winning any academy awards. I just had an idea and was wondering if the game was capable of realizing it. Your idea reminds me a lot of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. Where you are almost limitless in changing your appearance. If you are able to accomplish anything short of that, it would be a cool mod to check out. Good luck.

Matt

mattcrowston
09-17-2005, 02:46 AM
Nope not at all, you just have to create the right trigger for the scripts, I know you can set delays in the scripts in seconds, not sure if hundreds of seconds would work. But you could make the transition scripts fire though a dialog easily.

Thank you so much T7. I'm gonna do it. :) I figured it would just involve a couple script triggers timed with delays.


Matt

T7nowhere
09-17-2005, 02:49 AM
Is the flexible hair an editable model?
so you could make hair longer, but still move?

I definitely want to see Mira with her hair down:D
don't know if I can remove the headband though?

yes, the hair flex meshes can be edited like any other mesh longer hair would be easy do. I have lenthend the hair on a few head models, there is a limit there though, if you make it to long it will clip through the character. While that wouldn't effect performance it would be annoying to see.

REDJOHNNYMIKE
09-17-2005, 02:51 AM
It's just a feature of a huge mod, and you would probably only have 3-5 variations, considering the full game doesn't have any it would make a huge shift in variety, but if you get it to work, pleeeeeeeez share a little experience with the rest of us:D

T7nowhere
09-17-2005, 02:59 AM
Thank you so much T7. I'm gonna do it. :) I figured it would just involve a couple script triggers timed with delays.


Matt

The function you want to change a npc's appearance is this one.
// 850
// ChangeObjectAppearance
// oObjectToChange = Object to change appearance of
// nAppearance = appearance to change to (from appearance.2da)
void ChangeObjectAppearance( object oObjectToChange, int nAppearance );

mattcrowston
09-17-2005, 03:33 AM
The function you want to change a npc's appearance is this one.
// 850
// ChangeObjectAppearance
// oObjectToChange = Object to change appearance of
// nAppearance = appearance to change to (from appearance.2da)
void ChangeObjectAppearance( object oObjectToChange, int nAppearance );

Thanks T7. I appreciate the help.


Matt