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tarafudge
09-17-2005, 04:00 AM
I've been particularly interested in the OJP project since it began, but never needed to look anywhere else but what I've had.

The problem is that Slider is becoming more and more of a "goody goody two shoes'" person and that just won't work for proper administration of a server. With the release of JA+ 2.3, he has forced active project users to his "belief" of a practical world where non-abusiveness is everything by fixing vulnerabilties and adding JA+ Client side mod which has custom moves that players are quickly adapting too.

I run a large server which runs 24 players, and because of the limitations of the newest version of JA+ 2.3, clients are braver because they know the incompetance of Slider's mis guided good intentions has givin' them the ability to bleed through the holes that kept them from abusing our services (that we provide for them...) and hack/crack them because they think they can do it and not be harshly punished for their actions.

My philosophy is that if user's believed they were being abused by the administrators, then they could relocate themselves to a more professional server which doesn't. This means that admins would learn to be less abusive, because there wouldn't be anyone that would come to their specific server.

HOD (http://www.hodclan.net/) is growing everyday. New ideas and concepts are coming to mind, and I believe OJP is what we should focus on because it offers adaptability in ways that no other modification allows. As a Open Source user, I've always found these types of things of better overall quality because having your code revised by hundreds of other developers I would imagine, does just that (Quality Control).

Quality of Service is important to us and the regular visitors of members. It's important that we keep our servers clean of mis-usage in a way that negatively effects other player gameplay experiences.

Please inform me of ways that I could contribute to the project.

PS: I believe that this modification framework should be listed under the terms of the GPLv2 liscense.

razorace
09-17-2005, 07:23 PM
JKA mods can't be listed before GPLv2 thanks to the EULA for the game. Yeah, we already looked into that. :( Plus, it means we can't use SourceForge without lying thru our teeth. We've been using freepository for over a year now (probably even two years) and it's been working fine...even if it's not as user-friendly as SourceForge.

As for contributions, it's really a matter of what you can do. If you're skilled with coding, we can use you on the coding side. And if you don't really have any particular modding skills you can always help with the documentation.

However, I should note that our viewpoint on admining "tools" is probably not going to be in line with your line of thinking. We've always felt that abusable admin tools are trouble. We beleive that the player abusive behavior should be handled by simply not allowing the behavior in the first place instead of punishing players after the fact.

tarafudge
09-24-2005, 03:14 AM
Well then what about laming?

razorace
09-24-2005, 04:49 AM
Define laming. You mean like chat killing?

Cid88
09-24-2005, 07:12 AM
There is no laming. Laming is just a state of mind.

Thats how we have it in MB, and I think OJP should stay similar to it, less kiddy admins seem to appear that way.

tarafudge
09-24-2005, 11:23 AM
Chat killing, saber down killing in non-FFA games.

razorace
09-25-2005, 12:54 AM
I'm sure there's something we could design that would help with a lot of those issues.

Probably just protecting people who are chatting or have saber down under certain conditions. However, it would have to be a cvared ability and would have to be well designed.

For example, you simply couldn't be invincible while carrying the flag/siege objects or while in the duel gametype. Plus, you shouldn't be able to pick up items or regen force while doing so.

shukrallah
09-27-2005, 07:31 PM
There is no such thing as laming. Besides, ummm... in what non-FFA gamemode would you need your saber down? Crap, you don't need, nor should you want, to put your saber down in FFA mode.

tarafudge
09-28-2005, 07:42 PM
Whether you like it or not, Laming IS definitely in existance. Maybe on your server you perform simple tasks and just play FFA (on JKA FFA is lame).

Much of the HOD existance is based on the common knowledge that JKA will never be anything but a Star Wars enthusiast chat/skill based game.

If you want a true FFA, go play UT2004 or the like... :blast5:

razorace
09-28-2005, 08:05 PM
Well, like I stated earlier, I'm open to the idea of limiting the mechanics of "laming", in this case I assume we're talking about chat killing. So, what sort of mechanism would you suggest?

shukrallah
09-28-2005, 09:55 PM
The only way to eliminate that it to make you invincible while you have the chat box up. But then theres other problems, what if I am about to do a finishing move on a player and he throws up a chatbox to prevent his death? Its stupid. Plus, like everyone else, you shouldn't mind dying, even with your chat box up.

Crap, people chat kill me all the time, I don't care. I chat kill them, they don't care. Obviously you've never been in an all out FFA with guns and lotsa explosions... man, it feels good to drop some det packs on a bunch of jedi dueling it out and watch em' fly.

Look, Razor, if you give them an inch, they will try to take a mile. Kick/Ban is sufficient. Next thing you know they will be suggesting slap, and slay. Im not trying to tell you how to run your mod however, do what you wish. :) Its just a known fact that this honor community has hindered JKA, crap, if it wasn't for that, your mod could have been downloaded several thousand times, but instead, half the players left because they got kicked/banned/slapped/and slayne while playing JKA.

razorace
09-28-2005, 10:05 PM
I agree that abusive commands have been a bane to the community. However, I'm trying to be open to alternatives.

In this case, the protection would obviously have some sort of delay to prevent people from using it like a shield.

tarafudge
09-29-2005, 06:40 PM
Honor has been a major part of the Jedi Series even since the beginings.

Quit Hijacking my thread!

And people do care about laming, because we've heard numerous testimonies from people who visit our public servers. A delay for chat killing is almost for granted, maybe you can make a setting that when a persons saber goes down, or chatbox comes up, theres a 5 second delay, then they're protected. And that this will not apply for melee.

HOD is not mainly a JKA game, infact, we play CSS more than anything. It is a fact that in CSS there is no laming, why? In CSS the goal of the game is to defeat the other players for skill. JKA is not a competive game at all, its an enthusiast game.

razorace
09-29-2005, 06:53 PM
Why not for melee?

tarafudge
09-29-2005, 08:00 PM
Because you can still attack people in melee.

shukrallah
09-29-2005, 09:30 PM
Hence, the reason for making you invincible against it....


HOD is not mainly a JKA game, infact, we play CSS more than anything. It is a fact that in CSS there is no laming, why? In CSS the goal of the game is to defeat the other players for skill. JKA is not a competive game at all, its an enthusiast game.


The only reason JKA isn't competitive is because you honorz guys made it that way. Come to a no rules FFA server and watch the competition meter explode.

In the long run all CS is, is a fancy TFFA. JKA requires a bit of skill to play as well, more skill than any other random FPS, including CS.

Honor has been a major part of the Jedi Series even since the beginings.

In reality, "Honor" is tearing up the battlefeild without being a coward, living for the thrill of the saber cutting the opponents flesh, and walking away victorious. Your Honor system is exactly the opposite.

In addition to the delay, why not make the invulnerability cut off after a while, say one minute. Theres nothing you can type that would take a full minute, this would prevent further abuse of the chatbox (EX: Players just sitting around with chatboxs up for no reason)

razorace
09-29-2005, 10:04 PM
Well, I don't think players would be able to move around during said invinciblity, otherwise players could go saber down just to get away from an attacker or to pick up items.

tarafudge
10-04-2005, 06:23 PM
An idle system is already in place then, just make it more immediate when saber goes down.

Honor was brought into the game due to "Jedi" examples, you notice on all the servers with guns, there is a common game between the players, as there is no way to really have no weapons out.

I'd understand in like a TFFA game or CTF game, but a majority of the FFA servers use a "unprovocative attack" rule, JKA being the chat/interaction game that it is. So why not improve both sides of the game?

razorace
10-04-2005, 07:23 PM
What you appear to be suggesting doesn't prevent people from abusing saber down to run away and pick up power-ups. Really, this seems to be more of an issue with the lack of an RPG gametype than an issue with the rest of the gametypes.

shukrallah
10-04-2005, 07:41 PM
What you appear to be suggesting doesn't prevent people from abusing saber down to run away and pick up power-ups. Really, this seems to be more of an issue with the lack of an RPG gametype than an issue with the rest of the gametypes.


Exactly, like I said, give em and inch, and they take a mile. If you add one Honor command for them, next thing you know they will want a slap command, then a slay command, and a empower command...

Honor was brought into the game due to "Jedi" examples, you notice on all the servers with guns, there is a common game between the players, as there is no way to really have no weapons out.

Right... thats the point... its so you always have a weapon to kill the other players. Dueling was meant to contain an uninterrupted battle between you and someone else. Other than that, the game was meant for utter and complete chaos to be striken throughout the maps... Your supposed to run around with a e-11 and shoot the crap out of your clan mates, and then whipe out a saber and cut the next guys head off (chat box or not)

Everyone has an equal oppertunity the way it is.

Wudan
10-06-2005, 01:03 PM
If it's your server, you are free to do as you please, so, yes, you win ANY argument about lame/laming/honor hands down, fantastic. Great.

Everything you have suggested is plausible - it wouldn't be hard to come up with a 'invincible if saber down, or chatbox up' solution. Great. I'll bet it could be done, server side, so it'd be cvar controlled, so it'd be completely in the hands of the server admin. However, it'd be neat if the server browser could show if this cvar is enabled or not, so those of us who think such 'anti-laming-measures' are (pardon!) LAME can avoid these servers.

You and I disagree, but there's no reason this can't be done in OJP.

Kurgan
10-07-2005, 01:31 AM
Honestly, the BEST "anti-laming" system that I've ever seen was in Xmod2 (though it still has problems and I would not suggest adopting it into OJP, more on that later).

This is how it worked (from memory):

The cvar was set, then if a person stands perfectly still (they can mouse aim and chat, but no force power usage, no weapon readied (ie: they have to have saber off or melee, and no movement) for X seconds (usually 10 or more) they become "unlamable."

Now IIRC the way he had it, once the person was "unlameable" they were invincible to saber throw, force powers, and saber attacks (and melee strikes, including kicks) but NOT to guns or explosions. This meant that it could only be used in say, a Saber Only gametype, if the person wanted to stand around and have a chat with somebody without fear of being killed. In a guns server, Hex didn't care if you got gunned down for chatting, because you'd be stupid.

Now, if you started to walk/run, turned on a force power or turned on your saber or whipped out a gun, you became normal again. If you wanted to become "unlameable" you'd have to stand still with your weapon away and start over.

The only thing wrong with his system that I can think of off hand was that you could theoretically grab a capturable item (Siege item or Flag) and then make yourself unlameable and hold up the entire game until you were kicked! But of course if you were not protected from guns/explosions, somebody could still probably find a way to kill you, unless it was say, Sabers Only CTF (which people DO play, so that's still a problem).

Because of the lack of protection against guns, even if the Jedi Master in JM became "unlameable" he could still be killed. In a Duel it would be rather stupid for somebody to become unlameable.

Really the only place it would be of any use would be in a sabers only FFA or Sabers Only TFFA/CTF (as long as you made it so that the holder of the flag can never get the protection, period).

The "consequences" for attacking the "unlameable" person with a saber was that your lightsaber fell to the ground (as if you dropped it) upon your first strike against them (and the target takes no damage, anyway). And a message appears on your screen telling you not to try to lame somebody, etc.

There was also (IIRC) a feature in which if you tried to "lame" an unlameable person X number of times you were kicked or banned. This could be set by the admin.


NOW, that all said, I still have problems with said system. Like was said above, give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Once you start down the honorz path, forever will it dominate your destiny... CONSUME YOU IT WILL!

Considering the damage the "honorz" motivated admin mods have done to the community, and considering OJP is one of the few useful non-abusive mods out there, I think this would be a REALLY BAD MOVE.

I have a few suggestions for those people who are mad about "being lamed:"


1) If you want to Chat, do so when you're dead, or while you're in spectator mode. Nobody can kill you there.

2) Suck it up and move on. If you are there just to chat, why should you care if somebody got one point off of you? Don't chat in the middle of a duel or in an area where there are people fighting or out in the open where you can be sniped. And if you get killed while you're off taking a leak, well it's your own fault. This is a game, and everybody isn't here to wait for you and when you're ready to play. Come ready to play or don't play at all... ;P

Actually, my real advice for Razor is the following:

Add a Cvar option that lets you make it so that you do NOT LOSE YOUR SCORE when going into spectator mode. Say, if your score is above Zero, it is not reset, or you only lose 1 point, and it won't go below zero, if you get switched to spectator. This would lessen whining about getting team switched AND have the side effect that "honorz" people who want to chat and worry about being killed or losing their precious score can spectate and still keep their points.

This would NOT, obviously count towards team scores, only individual points.

Sound good? This is the best solution. Far better than the "anti lamer" Xmod2 method, or the countless "punishment" and "chat god mode" features of the abusive admin mods out there. ;P

And if people simply cannot live without their "punishment" commands, let them use one of the other countless abusive mods out there. OJP does not need to copy those abusive mods in order to "fit in" or "be cool."

tarafudge
10-08-2005, 02:52 AM
Perhaps instead of freezing or slaping a player, Kurgan gave me a great idea. Since slapping or freezing is somewhat immoral, and slaps can be avoided, why not make a command to manually make someone drop a saber for that moment and display a warning (and they'll read it because their not hacking/slashing away).

And It'd be really cool to introduce admin ranks, but not for abusive commands. Certain admin ranks can have access to certain server cvars, messaging techniques, and bans and kicks.

If we can't punish someone for being in the server, would it be possible to make a name based ban? I know people who get banned constantly and they are still able to come on. And sometimes when its really bad, when we ban the subnet, they manage to get in another way (such as through a backup dialup conn. or friends computer). This way we can make those really abusive players NOT mad, but go away :).

Also, it should have a mechanism to not allow it to be dropped in duels, when its already dropped and when a player is idle (because then that person isn't really doing anything).

yangyan
10-08-2005, 08:02 AM
how about a command to completely blind the player by coloring their screen black, and printing big red letters in the middle of the screen

shukrallah
10-08-2005, 10:29 AM
//(BHVD)
camera ( /*@CAMERA_COMMANDS*/ FADE, < 0.000 0.000 0.000 >, 0.000, < 0.000 0.000 0.000 >, 1.000, 2000 );
print ( "^1NO LAMING" );

ICARUS Script... lol... (Fades to black, then puts red "NO LAMING on the screen.)

Anyways, I think that would be a bad idea. I hope you were joking.


Actually, Kurgan, another idea is to make them invincible after 10 seconds in ONLY FFA SABER Servers. That way no other gametypes would be affected. The other commands should be scrapped. Just let the player stand there and slash at them, it won't matter... none of this drop your saber stuff is needed.

Kurgan
10-08-2005, 01:14 PM
Perhaps instead of freezing or slaping a player, Kurgan gave me a great idea. Since slapping or freezing is somewhat immoral, and slaps can be avoided, why not make a command to manually make someone drop a saber for that moment and display a warning (and they'll read it because their not hacking/slashing away).

lukeskywalker is right about the dropping saber. It smacks too much of "punishment."

People keep saying that "lamers" IGNORE all text on their screen always so you have to "get their attention" by "punishing" them. So they demand more and more "intrusive" methods of "getting someone's attention" until we have electric shocks running through their mouse pads or something. :P

The old standby "putting big colored text in the center of their screen for several seconds" I think is plain enough.

It is true that in OJP right now, when a person is team switched (automatically) a big set of white text appears in the middle of their screen (for only about 1 second though, I think it should be a bit longer) and at the top of the screen (for only a split second as normal white text) telling them what happened, and yet 90% of people still yell "wtf?" when it happens or say "what's going on?" or "why was I switched?" and they usually try to switch back 2-4 more times before they finally give up. Afterwards about 1/3rd of the people disconnect, often after flaming ME or the server for it! ;P

So those people are obviously ignoring the text, so maybe people do ignore the text in general. But they don't ignore chat... which is odd. So I don't know. But I don't think there's any way to force people to read it, short of punishing them, and that is simply not acceptable a reason.

And It'd be really cool to introduce admin ranks, but not for abusive commands. Certain admin ranks can have access to certain server cvars, messaging techniques, and bans and kicks.

"Sub admins" are a very popular thing, but also problematic. What ends up happening is that they become a "reward system." The admin takes the people who likes (his pals) and makes them all sub admins. Then there is a rivalry who who gets to be a sub admin, then a full admin, etc. People get mad if they are not "promoted" and they fight over it, etc. People try hard to become a "sub admin" by sucking up.

With the old system of just "one admin, he's got full control" this kind of thing doesn't happen, because people don't see all these sub admins running around (usually of lesser quality than the admin him/herself because they were handed out like candy or to their casual player friends with different ideas) and think they "have a chance."

I know using IRC isn't the best example, but there they constantly threaten to ban people who "beg for ops." This is precisely because so many people beg for ops, and they do this because "giving out ops" is so easy and effortless.

So NO, let's NOT do levels of admins. That's just asking for a big long popularity contest drama and too many cooks spoiling the broth.

If you have somebody you utterly trust, and make them your second admin, that's fine. But this way you better trust them, period. And it won't seem like you're just giving it out to make yourself popular with the noobs. ;)

If we can't punish someone for being in the server, would it be possible to make a name based ban?

A name based ban would be even less useful than an IP based ban. The same person could change their name and come right back.

Or are you talking about certain names offending you? You could ban the use of the name "Padawan" I suppose. But banning based on names seems kinda silly. Ban their IP range and they can never come back unless they login through a proxy (in which case you can ban their proxy range) or get a new ISP.

I know people who get banned constantly and they are still able to come on. And sometimes when its really bad, when we ban the subnet, they manage to get in another way (such as through a backup dialup conn. or friends computer).

Theoretically it's impossible to stop a person from coming back, period. They can ALWAYS find another computer in the world. They can always sign up for another ISP. The point is that through minimal effort, the admin makes VASTY HARDER for the troll to come back. They have to do all the work. Sure, somebody with two ISP's might feel more apt to cause trouble because he has a "backup" but after his two "tries" are up, he's history. Eventually it becomes just too much effort for him to keep coming back, when it's so much simpler to just hop onto another server and start he process over. It's not worth his while anymore. That's why it works.

Besides, if you ban his name, he can just use another name! There are an infinite number of names he can use, right? All he'll do is ban all the popular or types of names that people can use, ruining it for them. How would you like it if somebody banned all the names of popular Star Wars/Anime/Comic Book/and Sci Fi movie characters? That's the bulk of the names people use in JA right there (the rest being mostly personal names or clan tags that are unpronouncable in real life).

While you paint this is an "ultimate solution" I don't see it working any better than what we currently have.


Also, it should have a mechanism to not allow it to be dropped in duels, when its already dropped and when a player is idle (because then that person isn't really doing anything).

But how do you differentiate from a player who is simply idle vs. a player who is idling for the purpose of protection? A guy getting up to take a leak, who lagged out, is talking on the phone or going to get a beverage/food, clean his room, go to class, whatever and left his character going... he returns to find his character dead, but the chatter or person changing their settings gets to be protected? Maybe you're thinking if they type something at least every 2 seconds or something they are protected?

It's still pretty arbitrary. I don't see why we have to bend over to protect chatters, honestly. And saber off does not entitle a person to any sort of protection either. I mean really. The real way to stop this kind of thing would be to disable chat (except in Spectator mode). People could only use voice communication or binds to talk. But nobody wants that either. Sometimes you just "have" to say something. But nobody is obligated to stop their game just because you're talking...


So really all this stuff, is just leading back down the well beaten path of the other abusive admin mods... with their sub admins, their chat protection, their anti-laming rules, their abusive commands.... all of which give people the sense of entitlement that the game revolves around them and only them, and anyone who just plays to have fun or compete is somehow a "lamer" and must be punished, while the "honorable" and the "chatterbox" get all the perks. Sorry to sound rhetorical and polemic there, but I just don't see any good coming of this. I used some examples to show why the "punishment" model isn't even the best solution that already exists, but perhaps "no solution" really is better than any of these.

Kurgan
10-08-2005, 01:20 PM
Actually, Kurgan, another idea is to make them invincible after 10 seconds in ONLY FFA SABER Servers. That way no other gametypes would be affected. The other commands should be scrapped. Just let the player stand there and slash at them, it won't matter... none of this drop your saber stuff is needed.

You're right, this would be the best solution. And of course as soon as you moved, turned on your saber, used a force power or other action, your invincibility shuts off. Though I'm still iffy on it, period. What does Razor think?

tarafudge
10-08-2005, 04:21 PM
Hey man just because your not going to use admin levels doesn't mean others won't.

We've had alot of experience with admins, and we choose only the responsible who will not distribute/abuse it.

ADMIN LEVELS = YES

razorace
10-08-2005, 05:50 PM
about admin levels, I'm not fundimentially against them. I just feel that there has to be a good arguement for why we need them and what they should do. Care to elaberate on what you want?

shukrallah
10-08-2005, 09:58 PM
Really you don't need admin levels with OJP- there aren't any commands to use except ban/kick. Its not like you need a sub admin to slap anyone or something.

I can't stand honor admins. They WALK (literally) around and patrol servers looking for "trouble" like they are cops or something. If you challenge them to a duel they WALK away. If you talk to them they WALK away. If you kill them they spam admin commands on you, like sleep then proceed to "kick" you around, as a display of skill... and justice... and honor... or something stupid... makes no sence what-so-ever. [/rant]

Though I'm still iffy on it, period.

Well, truthfully things shouldn't drop to this level (its stupid)

Like I said earlier, they will see ojp adding minor honor enhancments, invade this board and ask for sleep, slay, and only God knowns what else.

razorace
10-09-2005, 12:09 AM
Well, I can possibly see it for if you want people to have kick/ban abilities but not be able to change server settings. Anyway, I don't really see it as much of an issue because I'm not going to be implimenting an admin system anytime soon. This would only be in the case that someone actually submitted something like that to OJP.

Kurgan
10-09-2005, 03:43 AM
Uh oh...!

Seriously, this will just lead to endless "subadmin promotion" begging, and crap.

This was your red flag:


The problem is that Slider is becoming more and more of a "goody goody two shoes'" person and that just won't work for proper administration of a server.

So it's a "problem" that Slider is making his mod less abusive because of his attack of conscience about the crappiness that formerly was at the heart of his mod! And this is a PROBLEM?? Augghh, he just doesn't get it at all. The abusiveness is the problem! We don't need to emulate that! It would taint everything about OJP... period. These guys who want their "admin capabilities" can use any of the dozen other mods that have them, they don't need to twist OJP into a copy-cat of the crap mods from the "bad old days!"

You've got to lay down the law on this one Razor, they won't give up until they've got it all "back" (their abuse commands from JA+)! Must stamp it out, stamp it out! :smash:

NooooOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!
http://strategy.jediknight.net/swb251lt.jpg

shukrallah
10-09-2005, 02:02 PM
^I agree 100%

tarafudge
10-09-2005, 06:54 PM
I'm talking about limited abilties to change rcon settings, restart maps, etc...

It's not bad, its not going to end your short little lives, its just a feature that you can choose to use.

It's not my fault that you can't handle administrative access with some maturity, thats all it takes to ward off beggars.

This is in no way abusable in any way... and its the only way to keep the server in order without giving out rcon which is a security risk. And don't give me that stuff about not giving access out because I don't have time to monitor the server 24/7, but different users in shifts can.

Kurgan
10-09-2005, 08:09 PM
It's not that "we" can't handle it (me? luke? razor?) but rather the masses have shown they are unable to handle it. Why repeat those mistakes?

That's all I really have to say about that. On our server we have three people that run it. Lath, Cannoli and myself. We each have full administrative access. I trust these guys enough that they can run the show when I'm not there, and we all do it for Razor in the end, since it's his server, his mod. ;)

razorace
10-09-2005, 09:38 PM
This is in no way abusable in any way... and its the only way to keep the server in order without giving out rcon which is a security risk. And don't give me that stuff about not giving access out because I don't have time to monitor the server 24/7, but different users in shifts can.

Other than having someone screw up your server settings, what's the security risk in giving out rcon?

tarafudge
10-09-2005, 09:39 PM
Well if they can't handle it, its not really OJP's or my problem.

Really its their loss..

If someone with rcon access incidently got agitated, a person could potentially lock everyone out, change the rcon password, use the server for their own purposes (possibly to degrade itself), to harass the players... and to ultimately abuse them, isn't that what were all "trying" to avoid?

If RCON were accidently displayed in the server, no doubt everyone would abuse it before it could be changed.

Shall I go on?

shukrallah
10-09-2005, 09:52 PM
Really its their loss..

I think the real loss is loss of a good game, because of honorz, and stupid mods, like JA+.

razorace
10-09-2005, 09:53 PM
That seems like a rare situation to have to worry about. You shouldn't be passing out admin powers to people that would abuse them in the first place.

As for getting your server "taken over" that's just when you contact the server host and have them reset everything back to the way it should be.

tarafudge
10-12-2005, 03:38 PM
Could there be an "ampsay" like command implemented on the mod?

It would have 4 options, the string to be said and how many seconds it would be said for and who. (-1 being everyone, or some other alias for everyone).

razorace
10-12-2005, 04:12 PM
I'm sure it's possible to do the directional speaking like that but I don't know if you can determine how long the text stays on the screen from the server side.

shukrallah
10-12-2005, 04:59 PM
Yeah, a lot of people change the text timing on their PCs. Their PC settings over ride yours. In fact, a lot of "Lamers" get tired of hearing you guys yell, so they just set the time on screen to less than a second or something... ;)

tarafudge
10-12-2005, 06:18 PM
JA+ does it with the motd, isn't this the same thing?

razorace
10-12-2005, 06:40 PM
I have no idea. Don't play JA+ much.

shukrallah
10-12-2005, 10:52 PM
No, its not. Thats text printed on the screen. Your talking about Chat. Thats different, I think...

Kurgan
10-13-2005, 02:56 AM
Speaking of text on the screen, those "System messages" (the big text in the center of the screen like say when you get team switched) should have a cvar for it.. I mean by default it only stays on the screen for a way too short a time. I know people will still stupidly claim not to see it, but still. I barely have a chance to read it before it's gone!

tarafudge
10-13-2005, 08:29 AM
In our server what we do is broadcast it 3 or 4 times in a row to get it to stay up there, but theres gotta be a more elegant way.

lukeskywalker1, I'm not talking about the chat messages, I'm talking about the motd. In JA+ when you join a game the MOTD shows with a countdown from 5 seconds...

Kurgan
10-13-2005, 07:29 PM
Yeah. In reality the "motd" (Message of the Day) is the text that shows up on your LOADING screen. The stuff that nobody ever reads EVER, which is why nobody ever knew I was the admin of my own server. ;) (Welcome to KURGAN'S MEATGRINDER!)

In other games they usually have a type of "motd" that actually displays ONSCREEN as you're entering the actual game, and disappears after a few seconds. That's what mods like JA+ do.

The "Big Chat Messages" (for lack of a better term) that appear in the center of your screen in OJP disappear far too quickly. The server needs to be able to set how long they stay onscreen, for EVERYONE (so users can't "mute" them).

Regular chat is no big deal. "Server" chat is usually ignored by people, but not always...

But definately make the "big chat messages" (including the "message of the day" which is in that same big a$$ font) stay onscreen longer than they do.

tarafudge
10-24-2005, 08:28 AM
More Features Requested:

1.) Name based bans and banned name wildcards (for banning those annoying server raids and stopping them in their tracks, and making sure that they don't come back with other names)

2.) Censors that actually sensor the text in question other than not displaying it at all, like on forums. This function would have a text file where you would define the words in question and what to replace it with.

3.) Spree messages that can be customized to display messages on multiple kills.. (possible?)

Kurgan
10-24-2005, 08:46 AM
I do miss the leads and sprees from Q3 (though UT's were better)... it's best when you have a voice calling it out though. Star Wars sound samples perhaps? "Impressive... most impressive" "Let the hate flow through you!" etc.

A customizable swear filter might be nice. ;)

I see banning names as more useless than banning IP's... as there's an infinite number of names a person can use. And if the person is an undesirable type, what does it matter the name he uses?

tarafudge
10-24-2005, 06:05 PM
Well on the first connect, that person's IP would be banned because of his name, such as a clan with bad intentions toward the server and its members. If that person decides to leave than he can contact through other methods... I see this as more comprehensive, I know a person can change his name, and find a new computer to play on, but the purpose is to make it has hard as possible to return.

Kurgan
10-24-2005, 11:17 PM
I honestly don't see the benefit...

So I could just use this "feature" to ban anyone with the word "Darth" in their name. The instant they joined they would be IP banned. That's really stupid.

Just status and IP ban the guy. If he's trying to be "stealthy" he won't use a name you're going to recognize anyway, and somebody else might innocently use his name (after all, there's nothing to register a name, anyone can use it, period).

Your system wouldn't be anymore useful than an IP ban, as I see it. He can still use another ISP, proxy, computer, whatever. He can move around forever and you can keep banning him. The thing is, it's always easier for the admin because you just have to type a line. He has to jump through hoops. Banning names just ensures that people with a similar idea for a name are caught in the crossfire.

What's to stop a nasty person from impersonating somebody and getting them banned?

Besides having undue side effects for something that wouldn't be much (if any) more beneficial than the usual IP bans, this smacks of the "banning gun syndrome" of the admin mods, that makes it far too easy to punish people, leading lazy admins to make it difficult for anyone to play on their server, not just the "bad" ones.

Jahandar
02-13-2006, 06:59 PM
Perhaps specialized gametypes would help. I see 2 possible options:

1. Duel-Only Gametype - Basically, all players are invulnerable until they enter a duel.

2. FFA/Duel Hybrid Gametype - Players can choose to be Duel-Only or open to FFA (Perhaps using a modified version of the team system).

For the hybrid gametype, players on the Duel "team" cannot take or inflict damage unless dueling. FFA players can attack other FFA players, but not players in Duel mode. Players can challenge anyone, regardless of their mode. Also, players should be able to switch modes without losing their score (but perhaps with a slight delay, to prevent exploitation).

Not sure about the technical feasability of this, but I thought I'd offer the idea for consideration, at least.

Lathain Valtiel
02-13-2006, 07:24 PM
Gah, no.

There's really only one more gametype we need to see, and it's called Team Holocron FFA.

razorace
02-13-2006, 08:12 PM
I'm not sure why the simple saber challenge isn't sificent enough for this purpose. You're going to have to explain that.

Vruki Salet
02-13-2006, 09:41 PM
You deathmatchers should lay off the insults for people who want to play the game differently than you. If you like UT style deathmatches with JKA then fine. You bought the game, etc. But the same goes for those of us who like to play the "honorz" or "enthusiast" way. They bought the game too and the internet's big enough to let them play it the way they want to.

As it happens I agree with tarafudge's type of play completely and have fun with it though it's been a long time since. That said I don't think Razor should start working on anti-laming additions to OJP. Two reasons for that are: 1) there are plenty of features in OJP that are short of testing already and 2) i like a more "real life" approach where if you have troublemakers in your "society" (server) you police it as part of the game. Gang up on him or have good players available that can kill him first. Treat it like a RPG experience if that's what you want. Defend your turf. Then if the guys who break your rules get rude or abusive you can kick/ban them and that's that.

Hey not to mention, tarafudge, the OJP sourcecode is available. Make a mod from it yourself. Try your hand at inventing a new way to control the lamers and it might be better than what came before. If you don't know how to program you can find someone to help or you can do like me and learn as you go.

PS - the insulting was referring to has dried up on this second page of comments thank God. But can we not bring it up again.

Lathain Valtiel
02-13-2006, 10:11 PM
*Snickers* If I were bored enough to invade an RPG server that tried to gang up on me I'd honestly love to try that and see how many I could destroy before they could kill me.

Vruki Salet
02-14-2006, 03:52 AM
Well there you go again. That was unecessary.

Jahandar
02-14-2006, 12:58 PM
My clan's server currently runs an FFA JA+ server with rules against laming. You don't have to like that, but we do and so do the many people who play on our server. I'm interested in OJP but my clanmates have grown accustomed to the admin features, so it is unlikely.

I understand Razor's position, and that is why I suggested the gametypes. He prefers to avoid having the activity take place in the first place, rather then punishing afterward. I think the hybrid gametype would suit that purpose because the dueler or "enthusiast" player would not have to worry about being attacked outside of duels so long as he is on the "dueling" team. Meanwhile FFA players are free to have their all-out FFA with other players on that team. Both the the Enthusiast's "FFA" and real FFA gameplay can then take place on the same server at the same time, with no punishments by admins needed.