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MaximumMayhem
09-25-2005, 08:14 AM
After trying to hold onto hope that LucasArts would learn from their mistakes, its all gone down the drain after reading info on these boards about the one huge cluster f*ck Battlefront II is before it's even been released.

* Total lack of knowledge by the developers when it came to characters, ships and placement of the above. The whole clone trooper skin debacle id expect to come across in a mod devised by a proud 8 year old who yet doesnt have detail specific memory. What a blatant slap in the face to not only hardcore Star Wars fans but to those who know more than just what happened in the films. I consider myself a fan of the events and characters that transpired during the Clone Wars and it sickens me to the stomache to see what they have done.

* The engine. Why in the blue hell use the same engine? I dont want to hear "it costs more money and takes more time", because if that were the case, why not release all the 'additional features' we see here under an expansion whilst working on something a little less dated? Was the original so flawed to sh*t that they jumped ship? Probably. Lets screw it up alll over again! There were multitudes of BASIC improvements that were needed before it was time to move house. A quick fix may work for console kids and those who throw money at any Star Wars branded experience (which LA seem to realise), but each to their own.

* I dont have so much blame to lay on Pandemic as i do on those that wield the whip. LucasArts seem more keen to generate money than to create a quality TRUE TO LICENSE experience. What we end up with seems to resemble a cheaper imitation version of the real thing. Dont worry LA: You'll feel it soon enough. Bite a hand so many times, and it will no longer feed you.

Not to tread on the toes of anyone who is still hopeful for this title as hope is a great thing, but i see a quick fix abomination released only for sheer financial gain that will bomb just as well as the first.

I agree with TK's every post.

If anyone has any queries regarding the rather brief points ive spilt out, then by all means, ill flesh them out in more detail for you should you desire, but i must cut this visit short as im about to play a game that you all should bother with - Battlefield 2.

Adios
- Steve

Rebel_Trooper
09-25-2005, 09:55 AM
I was thinking of making a thread like this, as a complaint to everything the devs have done wrong, like make up the Jet Trooper, giving the Rebels transport being a Republic Gunship, putting the hangars on the side of an SD, letting the DT appearing on battles such as Hoth, all EPIII clones being 501st (blue stripe) and so on. I just decided it was a bad idea though.

To sum it all up:
YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT!

Redtech
09-25-2005, 11:29 AM
Damn, you people need girlfriends, F-A-S-T! (I know it's an alien thing, but you can get used to people of the opposite sex).

I'm going to repeat this until someone starts getting fed up. SWBF2 is a game!

Not a sim
Or a realistic game
Or even a detailed game

It's an arcade, play for 2 hours, drop, pick up again, drop game. You'd need a team the size of Team Kojima if you wanted to make everything bang on accurate and up to detail, but with the detail of a Tom Clancy shooter.

You ain't doing that in less than 2 years!

Rebel_Trooper
09-25-2005, 01:17 PM
What an intelligently written, moving opinion.

Damn, you people need girlfriends, F-A-S-T! (I know it's an alien thing, but you can get used to people of the opposite sex).


It puts the point across without having to degenerate into insulting people with the opposite view! And you can actually have girlfriends while wanting a perfect game! It's called wanting a perfect game! ;)

I'm going to repeat this until someone starts getting fed up. SWBF2 is a game!


And it's a boring and lame one at that.


Not a sim
Or a realistic game
Or even a detailed game


Well, you're right there. It's not. What a shame, it would be so much more if it was a bit more realistic.

It's an arcade, play for 2 hours, drop, pick up again, drop game.

Wow, you managed to keep playing for 2 whole HOURS!? You sure do endure a lot of crap!

You'd need a team the size of Team Kojima if you wanted to make everything bang on accurate and up to detail, but with the detail of a Tom Clancy shooter.

Here you are right. I'm not asking for precisely accurate levels of recoil when you fire the E-11, just a bit more realism would be nice.

A good game is much like a good book. It pulls you in. You are intrested.
A bad game is like a bad book. It's a steaming pile of s1-1@!

You ain't doing that in less than 2 years!

No. I would rather wait 2 years for a rare near perfect game than a year for some shoddy piece of crap that tires me after 5 minutes of playing.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Time to move on.

MaximumMayhem
09-25-2005, 01:29 PM
Enough of the Kojima crap. You may also think that girlfriends are the result of acheiving the highest form of existence, but they are far from it. What people do in their private lives aside is their own business, im talking about getting your money's worth and having a quality title based on a film license. Is that so hard to ask for?

As far as genre goes, i never read that this is an "arcade" game. Its an First Person Shooter and thus has BIG shoes to fill, especially seeing as this isnt some hokey little title, but something based off one of the most successful franchises in existence. Im not being some Star Wars picky fanboy, but its obvious that Pandemic havent done their research. Either that or theyve been severely restricted by other parties (gee.. guess who!). This is where the problem lies. It may mean diddly squat to you as this is a foreign mental opinion, but im letting it be known that i wont be insulted by LucasArts any longer.

If they release a product that is up to standard, then ill pay for it. Till the point that they stop disrespecting the consumer by churning out rehashed garbage, they wont have my support. Bottom line.

Please dont tell me that Battlefront achieved what it set out to do. You and I both know it failed miserably. Everyone deserves a second chance, but Pandemic's is getting quickly dashed in my eyes. Lets not talk Star Wars, lets talk any kind of representation that is meant to be true to an entertainment source; be it a film adaptation, a novel etc.. if it doesnt stay true, then it becomes somewhat of a travesty in the eyes of those who vastly enjoy its source.

Yeah, SWBF 2 is a game. The films are fictional films too.. whats your point?

The difference is that the subsequent films all got it right because they came from Lucas. Easy... the games though didnt come from Lucas and arent correct. Im not talking about the mere characters, promised space battles with idle capital ships that sucks out strategy (which now seem no different to land maps anyway.. as you still fly to land somewhere..), but the game play itself. Its whats at heart that counts and the heart of Battlefront behind its licensed facade gets boring fast. 'Pick up, put down' or not, boring games dont hang around long.

Now instead of improving their mistakes, theyre just doing it all again with a new flash in the pan.

Bang accurate and up to detail? Well Rainbow Six isnt exactly below detail. Battlefield, Call of Duty games, etc.. all seem to have the right detail. What, are you saying that a building from Mos Eisley has more complex rendered walls than a building in Iraq? Rubbish. You have a point though in stating that it would take a considerable amount of time to pull off. True.

Thats why sequels usually come out a few years later, instead of not even a whole year later. But thats okay because LA just pumps them out without a care in the world. You'll care though because you're forking out your hard earned money for an inferior product. A game may be a game, but all things should be taken seriously. You think that Valve treated Half Life as a joke even though its nothing but a game? Gaming is still an industry and ethics are always involved on some level. Otherwise you get trash..

swphreak
09-25-2005, 02:26 PM
Rwar *whipcrack*

Remember to keep it civil everyone.

As for the topic, I think SWBF2 would be a waste of my 50 bucks.

Commander Obi-Wan
09-25-2005, 02:29 PM
And it's a boring and lame one at that.

You are entitled to your own opinion...other people like the game.....for example...me!

McCusto
09-25-2005, 02:30 PM
And it's a boring and lame one at that.



And you would know this. . .how?

HordaK
09-25-2005, 03:09 PM
maybe he phoned Santa Clause, u know, Santa Clause knows everything

TK-8252
09-25-2005, 03:53 PM
maybe he phoned Santa Clause, u know, Santa Clause knows everything

And he gets to play all the games early.

Lucky bastard.


But seriously, the way we know it won't live up to our standards is by simply watching the videos of it. It plays exactly the same as SWBF, which didn't live up to our standards either. Which is like a slap in the face.

yellowblood
09-25-2005, 06:24 PM
I personly don't care if they will use Unreal 1 engine or put Anakin Skywalker against Darth Vedar in the same map. I am a proud fanboy who will love this game as long as it says STARWARS Battlefront.

They aren't selling a game, they are selling an idea. A briliant one.

HordaK
09-26-2005, 04:43 AM
well, i undestand some points against SWBF2 and some not.....I dont understand why ppl dont like the game cause of the incorrectness of the units, ships, etc. It's just a game not a EP1 - EP6 Simulation. If u really want UBER Correctness why dont u cry about the respawn? I never saw any stormtrooper respawning in the movies....If u want to cry about incorrectness cry about the whole game, cause its not a simulation....

but ok i said i understand some points....

the only 2 things i really really hated about SWBF 1 were the A! of the useless Bots, if u have a 9 on 9 with 1 Human and 8 Bots each.....its not a 9 on 9 its just a 1 on 1, cause the bots in SWBF are even more useless than a destroyed Gonk....

The other point was the "U have taken a command-post" shi* every 2 seconds..i would liked SWBF1 much better if it has the Movie Battles 2 Game Mode...an objective based Team Deathmatch, without any respawn (except if the soldiers got reinforcements) MB2 is 1000 times better than SWBF 1 and its just a MOD for JA not a Full Game....but i know they got rid of the "only Command Post" Capturing so the one reason for me to not buy SWBF2 is not anymore...

the only point that should stop me from buying BF2 are the Bots, dunno if they are really that kinda better than in BF1, so i would be happy if some Beta Gamers like Custo could tell me something about the new AI in SWBF2

Redtech
09-26-2005, 05:52 AM
What an intelligently written, moving opinion.
I aim to please.


It puts the point across without having to degenerate into insulting people with the opposite view! And you can actually have girlfriends while wanting a perfect game! It's called wanting a perfect game! ;)

And you're expecting a Star Wars game to be that? Well, Petroglyph may deliver with their RTS, because they've been making these kind of games for over ten years (http://www.planetcnc.com/news/index.asp?month=8&day=29&year=2005) (that is a link).

And it's a boring and lame one at that.

You=win. I'm taking the POV of playing it with a friend of mine, I'll get back to that.


Well, you're right there. It's not. What a shame, it would be so much more if it was a bit more realistic.

I hate the term "realistic" because Star Wars is so inconsistant. Check out how much damage Solo's pistol does when escaping with the Falcon in Ep4. Would you want every pistol to cause that much damage? Screw the E11.


Wow, you managed to keep playing for 2 whole HOURS!? You sure do endure a lot of crap! Ever played Galactic conquest 2-player co-op on Playstation with a friend, on hard? It's a laugh on Hoth when he bails out at 50 ft from a snowspeeder I'm flying, to kill anyone trying to spawn outside the AT-AT's while I'm roping it. Although, yeah, that is a bit odd with the fall-damage.


Here you are right. I'm not asking for precisely accurate levels of recoil when you fire the E-11, just a bit more realism would be nice.

I want blood and brutal melee moves like Republic Commando. Now that was closer to a war than Battlefront was. Can't believe in Ep 3 Lucas put in the intro "WAR!!!" Nah, you don't say, that's only the title of the series!


A good game is much like a good book. It pulls you in. You are intrested.
A bad game is like a bad book. It's a steaming pile of s1-1@!
Buy Beyond Good and Evil, that is a brilliant game, although system specs are pretty high, but it's so touching at the ending. The music can bring tears to the eyes.


No. I would rather wait 2 years for a rare near perfect game than a year for some shoddy piece of crap that tires me after 5 minutes of playing.
Fair enough, but you can't do it in 2 years, that's what I'm saying. Now if BF1 never existed and they started it then and finished it now, it'd probably be of a different standard, wouldn't you agree. It's very difficult to create something completely new in such a short space of time. Not without doing an "Epic" and making sure you get loads of downloadables as you go alon (thinking of UT2003-UT2004).


You have your opinion, I have mine. Time to move on. Believe it or not, we're on the same team, just I don't like shouiting about games much. No, really.

Okay, Rebel Trooper, enough with quoting you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Enough of the Kojima crap. You may also think that girlfriends are the result of acheiving the highest form of existence, but they are far from it. What people do in their private lives aside is their own business, im talking about getting your money's worth and having a quality title based on a film license. Is that so hard to ask for?
2 things, you shouldn't cry so loud about a game, I mean, in a war where millions of people die over fuel resources, or the lack of them, where terrorism is judged by the colour of the victim's skin and where a blind eye is turned to the rape of natural resources, it seems a bit "off" to start moaning about a game so violently. The thing is, get some balance, go out, do something useful. You hate the game, do not play it. It's why I wouldn't play Splinter Cell 1.

Second point, Team Kojima have a knack for putting A LOT of effort into Metal Gear games. Did you know that MGS2 and 3 use the same engine? Play them both and it isn't obvious. But check out the attention to detail in the animations, the scenary, the movements, even little things like water, rain, animals and guard behvaiour nuances. Now I'm not saying that MGS games are perfect, but you can see that they bother to put in far too much attention to detail sometimes, something that isn't really done in most FPS although run-and gun games by ID and Epic have the advantage of lots of experience and support for original and innovative (and creative) moddlers and map designers by third parties as well as in-house.


As far as genre goes, i never read that this is an "arcade" game. Its an First Person Shooter and thus has BIG shoes to fill, especially seeing as this isnt some hokey little title, but something based off one of the most successful franchises in existence. Im not being some Star Wars picky fanboy, but its obvious that Pandemic havent done their research. Either that or theyve been severely restricted by other parties (gee.. guess who!). This is where the problem lies. It may mean diddly squat to you as this is a foreign mental opinion, but im letting it be known that i wont be insulted by LucasArts any longer. I know for a fact that the games that have diverted away from Lucasarts control probably work better. X-Wing Vs Tie Fighter has EU ships and most people would argue it's one of the best space shooters around to date and still being sold to this day. Also Knights of the Old Republic stands by its own merits and does better because of it. Because Battlefront is closer linked to the films then certain "pressures" are implied. Also, consider that the average fan can not really tell clone armour apart, I don't see it as a big deal, especially when it's uncertain what armour patterns were worn on planets like Bespin or Kamino for that matter, would they be wearning the new uniforms or what?


If they release a product that is up to standard, then ill pay for it. Till the point that they stop disrespecting the consumer by churning out rehashed garbage, they wont have my support. Bottom line. Why tell me? It's obvious, I'm very picky about my games as a "poor" student, so I need to get stuff that comes from trusted sources and developers who I know deliver consistantly.


Please dont tell me that Battlefront achieved what it set out to do. You and I both know it failed miserably. Everyone deserves a second chance, but Pandemic's is getting quickly dashed in my eyes. Lets not talk Star Wars, lets talk any kind of representation that is meant to be true to an entertainment source; be it a film adaptation, a novel etc.. if it doesnt stay true, then it becomes somewhat of a travesty in the eyes of those who vastly enjoy its source. You're arguing agains someone not interested in the argument. We're on the same side, I just hate people getting wound up so heavily and personally over something, that as you said, you will not buy. There are MANY games that are pure garbage compared to their source, heck Constantine comes across as a crap film AND game compared to the comics. Star Wars is unique in that the crap/decent ratio is surprisingly high just by the number of games produced (unless you liked Super Bombad racing).


Yeah, SWBF 2 is a game. The films are fictional films too.. whats your point?

So sayeth Yoda, "Everything". It's a game, as in a CONSOLE game, that's why when I play it on PC it sucks so bad. No really, I can wipe bots on a Playstation 2 thanks to auto-aim and optomisation for the PS2 controller, but on PC where although you are near enough 100% accurate with a mouse +/-10%, the projectiles are so slow it really lags that you can't hit jack without leading your target as if you're launching "mini-rockets" with the beserk mode in UT2003/4. Heck, you can't rocket jump without turning friendly fire off. ;) It's hard to create consistant realism when the source itself is full of inconsistances. I take the movies as being Canon but details to be mucked around in slightly, because their physics is not going to work with ours. That's why Pandemic wont license the Havok engine (for example), because that simulates Earth Physics, but an AT-AT wouldn't be able to walk, (too heavy) hover vehicles would have trouble with momentum (no friction, NO BRAKES!) and you'd spend more effort modding it to take into account what is unreal, than what it is, although Bungie did a good job with Halo 2, despite it's inaccuracies with physics, so maybe that would have been something to see.

The difference is that the subsequent ilms all got it right because they came from Lucas. Easy... the games though didnt come from Lucas and arent correct. Im not talking about the mere characters, promised space battles with idle capital ships that sucks out strategy (which now seem no different to land maps anyway.. as you still fly to land somewhere..), but the game play itself. Its whats at heart that counts and the heart of Battlefront behind its licensed facade gets boring fast. 'Pick up, put down' or not, boring games dont hang around long. You shouldn't really cuss a game that isn't out yet. Check the reviews when it's out and make your final decision. Anyway, you're oversimplifying BF2 and overgloryifying Lucas. I am not a fanboy and IMHO, Lucas "lost-it" when script writing Ep1-3. Heck, Republic Commando convinces me that Ep2/3 should have been that gritty and murky and that war is unpleasant, not "Yippee Kay Yay I just killed 100!" Oh well, it is a kids film with rediculous amounts of violence, but I'll let that pass or I'll begin quoting Maddox. For space maps, ever considered that if you let people land on your cap ship, you'll loose, so as a fighter, you can kill transports, or disable the guns by shooting them off, or just dogfight for hours. One of the controversies was whether the space maps would be too Rogue Squadron-ish.


Now instead of improving their mistakes, theyre just doing it all again with a new flash in the pan.

Find the thread which has the gamespy chatlog of the developers with some fans, it's quite interesting to see the claims they're making for the stuff they're adding. I'll leave it to your own judgement what you think of it.


Bang accurate and up to detail? Well Rainbow Six isnt exactly below detail. Battlefield, Call of Duty games, etc.. all seem to have the right detail. What, are you saying that a building from Mos Eisley has more complex rendered walls than a building in Iraq? Rubbish. You have a point though in stating that it would take a considerable amount of time to pull off. True. I kinda like the Rainbow six, but I hate that the M16 seems to work for everything. The new one has a more diverse range of weapons suited for either long-shooting or bang in your face, rather than a "jack-of-all-trades" that the M16 was. Well, a building in Iraq was built by an Iraqi man so it's using "Real-world materials rendering"(TM) but yeah, linking back to my Kojima comment, if you've ever played the newer MGS (and not fallen asleep during cutscenes) then there's a lot of detail even in environment. Battlefield 2 has a rubbish single player though that makes BF1's look like an Halo-killer in comparison though.


Thats why sequels usually come out a few years later, instead of not even a whole year later. But thats okay because LA just pumps them out without a care in the world. You'll care though because you're forking out your hard earned money for an inferior product. A game may be a game, but all things should be taken seriously. You think that Valve treated Half Life as a joke even though its nothing but a game? Gaming is still an industry and ethics are always involved on some level. Otherwise you get trash..
Yeah, Valve rule though. Pandemic IMHO did better with Mercaneries, I haven't played it properly, but you get things like hijackable vehicles, OTT destroyable scenary and even little things like seeing your weapons visibly holstered. It kicks BF1's corpse around the floor. Anyway, ultimately, I'll be hard pushed to buy BF2, mainly because the PS2 ain't mine! But I would have to be "stunned to submission" to get it for my Laptop, heck would it even run? But I have a feeling that PC users may be dissapointed and that console users will get a better benefit (except online).

zerted
09-26-2005, 07:20 AM
Ahhhhhhhhhhh. My head hurts, such long posts... ;)


...No. I would rather wait 2 years for a rare near perfect game than a year for some shoddy piece of crap that tires me after 5 minutes of playing.

You have your opinion, I have mine...
If you think it only takes 2 years to develop a "<i>rare near perfect game</i>", you have obviously never programmed before.

TK-8252
09-26-2005, 08:54 AM
Until HordaK and Redtech drop the childish insults, their posts do not dignify a response.

Pho3nix
09-26-2005, 09:12 AM
MaximumMayhem: I salute you.
Almost like you read my mind, I was thinking about making a thread about the same complaints.

HordaK
09-26-2005, 09:47 AM
childish? the only childish things here are ur arguments that this game sucks only cause the Clones have the wrong color etc (and i dont only mean ur comments TK) anyway i said i understand SOME points, but the above mentioned reasons are just dumb, dont try to tell me that Battlefield 2 is the pure realism compared to the real WW, if thats not childish i dunno what is

btw with ur useless comment u responded to our "childish insults" so wheres the point of ur post anyway?

Redtech
09-26-2005, 10:29 AM
Until HordaK and Redtech drop the childish insults, their posts do not dignify a response.
Wait, you've been whinging non-stop about how much SWBF2 sucks on and on and when I do make a sensible (but long post), instead of reading it and making a point you sit back and moan again?

Damn, wish the Darkside was real.

Anyway:

2 things, you shouldn't cry so loud about a game, I mean, in a war where millions of people die over fuel resources, or the lack of them, where terrorism is judged by the colour of the victim's skin and where a blind eye is turned to the rape of natural resources, it seems a bit "off" to start moaning about a game so violently. The thing is, get some balance, go out, do something useful. You hate the game, do not play it. It's why I wouldn't play Splinter Cell 1. Bonus points on finding where I am quoting myself from. I do agree that is a grave insult and if any of the repected elders like Kurgan wish to "bust my lip" on cusses that strong, then it is their right to do so.

ET Warrior
09-26-2005, 11:22 AM
2 things, you shouldn't cry so loud about a game, I mean, in a war where millions of people die over fuel resources, or the lack of them, where terrorism is judged by the colour of the victim's skin and where a blind eye is turned to the rape of natural resources, it seems a bit "off" to start moaning about a game so violently.Well that's a thoroughly silly thing to say. Simply because my life could be worse, doesn't mean I'm supposed to see a video game released and say "oh, well, it may be crap, but at least I'm not in a war-zone right now" We can say that for a lot of things. I shouldn't be upset when the Broncos lose, or if I do poorly on a midterm, or screw up at work, because hey. It could be worse.

But it does matter to some people. We choose what is important in our lives, and to some people video games are important. I am one of those people. I label video games as important because they are one of my main sources of entertainment outside of sports and movies. I also really like star wars, so a star wars video game SHOULD be something really awesome.

Now when something that is so much garbage as Battlefront gets released, well I think fans have a right to get mad, and be skeptical about a sequel. If you make a bad game, and release it's sequel in less than a year, you don't care about the fans, and you don't care about releasing a quality product. You care about the money that you're bringing in from the suckers who see Star Wars on a box and assume it must be great.

Battlefront 2 should've taken 3 years minimum to develop. and then it may actually have been worth buying.

MaximumMayhem
09-26-2005, 11:26 AM
2 things, you shouldn't cry so loud about a game, I mean, in a war where millions of people die over fuel resources, or the lack of them, where terrorism is judged by the colour of the victim's skin and where a blind eye is turned to the rape of natural resources, it seems a bit "off" to start moaning about a game so violently. The thing is, get some balance, go out, do something useful. You hate the game, do not play it. It's why I wouldn't play Splinter Cell 1.


Oh how incredibly righteous of you. Just because I dont have the absolute power to halt all global wars, racism and destruction of the habitable Earth; doesnt mean i am ranked high enough to start discussing what is now in comparison, a non existant problem when compared to 'real' wordly issues. If that were the case, why even bother creating forums over such trivial things as mere games? Wouldnt any kind of non positive post immediately cease to be productive?

Well ill tell you something, if it wasnt for people like you (your being appalled by certain negative aspects of the world) and me, who voice their concern about everyday things that dont sit well however large or small they may appear (eg. be it the issue of pathetically narrowminded 'racial superiority', to the lacking service at your local shopping centre, to how the mechanic screwed you over because you dont know squat about your car); we'd be living the lives of happy, ignorantly blissful capitalist - 'hand your money over ' saps. If something doesnt smell right, by hell kick up a stink about it. Because in most cases, it keeps the bastards honest.

Someone in this thread stated that they will buy Battlefront because it has the STAR WARS title on it. Doesnt that sadden you? This sort of thing is at the forefront of my argument here. LucasArts have obviously grown a tad complacent towards the consumer and arent willing to focus behind a product 100%, because all they are interested in is revenue. On a much smaller scale, its no different to PG & E screwing over local townspeople and their very health, to make bucks. Like I said, its on an incredibly smaller scale, but appalling nonetheless. So while this may seem like crying over something irrelevant to complain about here; i beg to differ.


This message board is comprised of members that enjoy LucasArts games in general; the major percentage being those that enjoy Star Wars; and, ill take a wild assumption here in guessing they also enjoy Star Wars themed games too. So dont you (as someone who in some way, has the same sort of inclination to Star Wars as many others here do) feel somewhat insulted that a company is expecting you to pay money for something that is sub par? All the while, seeing other similarly themed titles which undoubtably prove it can be better granted technology in this current age? I mean, dont tell me its hard for a company who creates games (all they solely do for a business) to; on the amazing monetary budgets they have, create something more than a mediocre teambased FPS? We all know Lucas is one financially well endowed mammal and im sure that LucasArts themselves dont just get the $$ scraps, so it seems that this lack of quality is becoming a worry.

You go on to state the strenghts of different game developing houses. Whats stopping LucasArts from creating an engine as fantastic as Unreal or Source? Money restrictions? Hiring the top minds in the business? Microsoft seems to have stepped into the gaming market at a far later date than LucasArts and they are taking this business seriously with no problems. Hell, they acquired Rare and Bungie; whats stopping LucasArts from following suit in scooping up industry greats? You say ID and Epic have the experience. Its the people behind the name that add to this regard, not vice versa. Everyone has their price and it seems that LA isnt willing to pay for it, which is inpart; thanks to individuals that state they'll buy said product merely because it has 'Star Wars' on it. They (LA and othersuch A-holes concerned) need to know its about time to change this shallow tactic because it wont be putting the food on the table for much longer.


I know for a fact that the games that have diverted away from Lucasarts control probably work better. X-Wing Vs Tie Fighter has EU ships and most people would argue it's one of the best space shooters around to date and still being sold to this day. Also Knights of the Old Republic stands by its own merits and does better because of it. Because Battlefront is closer linked to the films then certain "pressures" are implied. Also, consider that the average fan can not really tell clone armour apart, I don't see it as a big deal, especially when it's uncertain what armour patterns were worn on planets like Bespin or Kamino for that matter, would they be wearning the new uniforms or what?

As far as control goes; there's 'control' and then there's 'blatant disregard for a license that puts off people who expect to see what they pay for'. Ie. Thought behind placement. It may sound extreme that some people are complaining about Luke Skywalker's lightsaber being green in Hoth; but Star Wars has become more of a familiar institution. Lightsaber colour sound farfetched? Maybe, but my 6 year old nephew can tell you that "pilot Luke" has a blue lightsaber and "jedi Luke" has a green one. Gaming and fiction is an illusion. Star Wars is a memorable illusion. Screw with it and people just wont buy it. You're right, Battlefront is much more closer linked to the films in that its meant to play them out; it seems that not enough pressure is being applied to make it a homage to them. Average fans may not be able to tell clone armour apart as the prequels have grown far more complex when it comes to visuals. Why not cater to ALL audiences by keeping basic elements of the game such as armour colour etc.. as they were in the films. Its a simply case of copycat. Doesnt sound that difficult does it? Then you'd be doing a larger % of people justice and bottom line is you make more money aswell as fulfill people's expectations. Smiles all around.


Why tell me? It's obvious, I'm very picky about my games as a "poor" student, so I need to get stuff that comes from trusted sources and developers who I know deliver consistantly.

Because if you're on the "same team" as you've stated, let alone picky due to your budget then why not intervene and have your say about the issue at hand here? Its either that, or let the 'Vote #1 Star Wars Branders' screw your gaming options to the ground by giving dishonest companies the room to drop the quality bar. Evil unchecked spreads, however small.


You're arguing agains someone not interested in the argument. We're on the same side, I just hate people getting wound up so heavily and personally over something, that as you said, you will not buy. There are MANY games that are pure garbage compared to their source, heck Constantine comes across as a crap film AND game compared to the comics. Star Wars is unique in that the crap/decent ratio is surprisingly high just by the number of games produced (unless you liked Super Bombad racing).

You must be, seeing as you posted a lengthy reply. Dont get me wrong, this isnt something I lose sleep over. As you say, its a game and games arent really meant to be taken on a serious level. Ive just had enough of game companies losing their respect for quality and working horizontally instead of working to a higher standard, raising the benchmark. Battlefront 2; for a sequel, hasnt provided any answers to the problems we've seen in the first; only more features with the same dated engine. You release patches to make up for your mistakes and not the same game with a GB or so of extras in it in repacked form. As a student, you'd understand this more than anyone. The bottom line is, LA has the resources to ensure that the 'crap/decent' ratio of games should be 1 in 10 atleast. They arent pushing the bar up, just forward.


It's a game, as in a CONSOLE game, that's why when I play it on PC it sucks so bad.

Then it has no business being on PC until it's done properly. Otherwise, why port something that "sucks so bad"? Its still being done though. Do you know the answer yet? Hence my post's purpsose is to alert the shi.. ahh unsavoury types that i wont stand for it, and that its about time they woke up or they'll be left behind in their pile of beta titles to keep them company while game houses that exist to make quality titles thrive. You want to talk about film? Why do you think Stealth bombed in the US when it was released? Ill tell you why, its because the public is fed up with all the action packed, brainless Bruckheimer sh*t released today. LA hasnt reached that rejection pinnacle yet, but theyre climbing the mountain well.


No really, I can wipe bots on a Playstation 2 thanks to auto-aim and optomisation for the PS2 controller, but on PC where although you are near enough 100% accurate with a mouse +/-10%, the projectiles are so slow it really lags that you can't hit jack without leading your target as if you're launching "mini-rockets" with the beserk mode in UT2003/4. Heck, you can't rocket jump without turning friendly fire off. ;) It's hard to create consistant realism when the source itself is full of inconsistances.

Refer to last para. Exactly. So where or who does the problem begin with? Looks like you answered your own statement.

I take the movies as being Canon but details to be mucked around in slightly, because their physics is not going to work with ours. That's why Pandemic wont license the Havok engine (for example), because that simulates Earth Physics, but an AT-AT wouldn't be able to walk, (too heavy) hover vehicles would have trouble with momentum (no friction, NO BRAKES!) and you'd spend more effort modding it to take into account what is unreal, than what it is, although Bungie did a good job with Halo 2, despite it's inaccuracies with physics, so maybe that would have been something to see.

News flash: 90% of video games are based on pure fantasy. Somehow engines used thus far have been lenient when it comes to tackling the lack of reality issue. I dont see that as an excuse for a lack of a decent engine affecting gameplay physics. If that response were to come from the mouth of an LA PR, they'd need to go back to wording school. I admire your trying to come up with valid points, but they do nothing to cover for LA's lack of gaming engine quality.


You shouldn't really cuss a game that isn't out yet. Check the reviews when it's out and make your final decision.

No I shouldnt, but to merit that, ive read or seen very little to make me hold SWBF 2 in any sort of higher esteem. Perhaps you can prove me wrong in showing proof that Pandemic are really trying to dispel the screw ups that brought the original down. No, i dont count a server browser, buddy list and clan recognition as evidence. We ask for uncapped FPS and stable netcode and they give us a sprint button and space 'battles' - the story of Pandemic's life...

Anyway, you're oversimplifying BF2 and overgloryifying Lucas.

Quite the contrary as thats basically how simple BF2 appears to be, and theres little present glory when it come to re-enacting a basic Lucas vision in a game. If people who are mere fans of Star Wars are complaining, then obviously important parts of the SW theme have been lost.

I am not a fanboy and IMHO, Lucas "lost-it" when script writing Ep1-3. Heck, Republic Commando convinces me that Ep2/3 should have been that gritty and murky and that war is unpleasant, not "Yippee Kay Yay I just killed 100!" Oh well, it is a kids film with rediculous amounts of violence, but I'll let that pass or I'll begin quoting Maddox.

'Fanboy' is such a convoluted generalisation. I have much distaste for the ill conceived word. Republic Commando, despite its few misgivings, was designed to show another side to Star Wars. It strayed to a central theme not shown in the films and did that well, hence you didnt see that aspect in the movies; which depict seemingly invincible heroes you recognise and care about, who's lives are glossed over in action and romance and adventure. Instead we saw the other side of the spectrum, of unsing disposable heroes who saw less glory but equally as much action, all for what we knew was a doomed cause yet we; as the player fought for it as the clones did. A true tragic irony, but ill stop right there or ill start quoting myself.

For space maps, ever considered that if you let people land on your cap ship, you'll loose, so as a fighter, you can kill transports, or disable the guns by shooting them off, or just dogfight for hours. One of the controversies was whether the space maps would be too Rogue Squadron-ish.

..And here i thought there would finally be some decent battle strategy and instead we're cut short to something that resembles distant CPs you can fly to, oh and guess what kids; now there's more space to have aerial fights in, just like the movies! Thats all the immovable / planned flight path capital ships space scenario tells me thus far. To answer your question, ever considered that if you let people land on your Bespin platforms CP, you'll also lose? So as a fighter, you can kill other ships in a limited dogfight airspace, or disable the guns by shooting them off the platforms? Oh.. or just dogfight aimlessly for hours while players who capture CPs are actually helping your side win battles rather than pilots? The controversy i see here is nothing new apart from larger dogfight space which is hardly worth shelling out for seeing as dogfights are about as integral to a CP game as bananas are for termites.


Find the thread which has the gamespy chatlog of the developers with some fans, it's quite interesting to see the claims they're making for the stuff they're adding. I'll leave it to your own judgement what you think of it.

Claims are just that and can be incrdibly biased. I remember Joe Johnston once claiming that the new logo for Jurassic Park /// was chosen merely "because it looked cool". Oh yeah! Such claims always resound the same in everyone's mind. Talk is cheap Red, and like i said.. there's little there to merit confidence in this expan.. sequel.


Battlefield 2 has a rubbish single player though

Thats funny, wasnt Battlefront meant to be designed primarily as a multiplayer title? Last time i checked, this was 80% of Battlefield2's core emphasis, Battlefront's seem to be 50/50 and now with Battlefront 2, more like 60/40.. with this 501st Legion crap. What does this tell you about the supposed effort put towards multiplayer which is meant to be the game's selling point? Especially seeing as its obvious MP was a lacklustre experience ( to put nicely) in the original Battlefront.


Yeah, Valve rule though. Pandemic IMHO did better with Mercaneries, I haven't played it properly, but you get things like hijackable vehicles, OTT destroyable scenary and even little things like seeing your weapons visibly holstered. It kicks BF1's corpse around the floor.

If you clearly know that Pandemic can and have done better, then you see where im coming from.


Anyway, ultimately, I'll be hard pushed to buy BF2, mainly because the PS2 ain't mine! But I would have to be "stunned to submission" to get it for my Laptop, heck would it even run? But I have a feeling that PC users may be dissapointed and that console users will get a better benefit (except online).

Yeah, you're almost right... although I wish you werent and things were different. I personally dont see the fad in console FPS titles (as where's the fun or challenge in having auto aim play half the title for you?), but failiure to make a decent PC version is only a secondary concern compared to the immense lack of quality put into this costly, over glorified expansion; regardless of platform.

When i heard it was also headed for the PSP i didnt know whether to laugh or vomit. If there were ever a pamphlet handed out to prospective gaming studios, one section would read: "Multiplatform Gaming: The only way to whore half completed software to money throwing franchise loyal consumers!"

Redtech
09-26-2005, 12:31 PM
Can I just tick the "agreed" boxes, and we can both quit the long posts? Especially since I'm not in disagreement. (Although perhaps I spend too much time in my computer labs..there goes my eyesight).

If you must know, for interest, politically, I'm an apathist. I have a right to moan, but whether I believe there will be change is another thing altoghether, on "a great many things". I just find it easier to ignore the "If Lucasarts made it, I'll buy it LOL!" comments. You're a strong and convincing writer, so you get my attention. :)

I will apologise however for any mean comments I made against you (take your pick). You've made a brilliant point that you're an excellant debater, in that case, you've earned my respect and the hat comes of to you, sir.

You have got me thinking though, that it is interesting that Lucasarts rarely hire any development teams of large stature (Bioware and Petroglyph are exceptions) nor give their other development houses the resources that they really need to create games that boot people in the shins and make them scream "OMFG! BEST GAME EVER+15!"

I will tell you that I am "on the fence" about Battlefront 2. I wont completely dash it until it's been through "my grubby paws" a few times. I do share your frustrations in that my close friend has the copy we play and I do get annoyed when he starts going about how great it is, or the Hoth level, while I'm twirling around with UT2004 at home. (Those vehicles are the shiznit, and you actually need skill to even drive a damned tank!)

It's disturbing when you think of how relatively small experienced development teams Valve, Epic etc can create strong games and strong brands while the Lucasarts chain can't remember the MTT is not in BF1! (Check the manual). Heck, WTF isn't it in EITHER game? It'd rule.

I will say that I don't like the way people moan about realism so strongly, due to the source of the game, (the films are realistic?) but yeah, little things like the time it takes bullets to fly, weapon accuracy, or unit animations (and yes, even physics) could be sorted out a little bit better, heck attention to detail is what we really want ultimately isn't it? We want little things in our games now that make us think "hey, y'know what, these guys actually care." I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to have skins appropriate to each level for the clones, (although I don't have a problem with their models, as weird as some of them look). But for a game like Battlefront, as it is, that ain't happening.

I mean personally, I'd want to play as the Royal Naboo or have customised armour (like Halo2/Republic commando) or the rebels having cammo uniforms for the majority of levels as appropriate, or Galactic civil war fights on Kamino and Clone war battles on Hoth (for pure comedy sake) and NO JEDI! ;) I am so playing as Grievous only.

I think that because it is on console, I DO expect a decent S/P mode. I think Valve had the right idea in having games available for download, especially if they're only multiplay, which, in all fairness I wouldn't have objected to BFront being, then download+play online is sensible and logical. Of course Lucasarts haven't even bothered to update their site for Battlefront yet, so I doubt they'd care for the server-work required.

But this is what it's all about, cash-cows. While other developers have to struggle to get masterpieces like Sacrifice or Battlefield going, as long as it's got the Lucasarts logo, it's an insta-win.

MaximumMayhem
09-26-2005, 01:07 PM
Im afraid things are worse than they look.

'Battlefront II Beta Forum (http://www.forumplanet.com/3dactionplanet/swbf2beta/)'

Just have a read of some of the many disgruntled posts. The severity of this game's imminent downfall now looks far worse than many initially thought..

I wont even get into the so called developer chat which featured such gems as: "The singleplayer campaign is pretty awesome too. Yoda smackin' down droids on Kashyyyk is teh cool" .. and I always thought that sort of talk was reduced to total idiots or immature children who dont know any better.

TK-8252
09-26-2005, 05:41 PM
childish? the only childish things here are ur arguments that this game sucks only cause the Clones have the wrong color etc

In addition to all the other stuff, like basic gameplay and physics, yeah. How childish of me to expect a decent game for $50. All games from now on will be crap, and anyone who critisizes them will be deemed childish. Gotcha. :thumbsup:

btw with ur useless comment u responded to our "childish insults" so wheres the point of ur post anyway?

That maybe you should realize that resorting to insults only looks foolish? I don't know. Just pointing it out.

Wait, you've been whinging non-stop about how much SWBF2 sucks on and on and when I do make a sensible (but long post), instead of reading it and making a point you sit back and moan again?

Oh I read it. But I'm not gonna feed your fire. If you throw around subtle little insults (like you just did again), no way am I going to acknowledge it. So please, use the internet for good, not evil.

zerted
09-26-2005, 10:30 PM
What is good? What is evil? Is the acknowledgement of a failure to acknowledge, the acknowledgement of the said failed acknowledge or the acknowledgement of the failure to acknowledge?

TK-8252
09-26-2005, 10:31 PM
What is good? What is evil? Is the acknowledgement of a failure to acknowledge, the acknowledgement of the said failed acknowledge or the acknowledgement of the failure to acknowledge?

Word.

zerted
09-26-2005, 11:13 PM
Ha ha ha.

HordaK
09-27-2005, 04:15 AM
In addition to all the other stuff, like basic gameplay and physics, yeah. How childish of me to expect a decent game for $50. All games from now on will be crap, and anyone who critisizes them will be deemed childish. Gotcha. :thumbsup:

well TK u havent read my post, have u? i said i understand some points, that includes the gameplay, physics etc, but i cant understand the crying "This game sucks my Heavy Trooper is blue not green" NO and really mean NO game is perfect that is based on films or whatever...give just 1 Film+Game which are TOTALLY equal in case of Details (and with Details i dont mean the texture realism, i mean weapons, characters,etc. but i think u know it already) if u really can give me one proofed example i will immediatly stop saying that crying about missing or wrong details is childish.

Redtech
09-27-2005, 04:57 AM
Oh I read it. But I'm not gonna feed your fire. If you throw around subtle little insults (like you just did again), no way am I going to acknowledge it. So please, use the internet for good, not evil.
Look, in the name of something real evil, just STOP. You don't get it. I haven't insulted anyone since my first post on this thread and it wasn't even you. And the person it was I apologised to.

Also, what's wrong with using the net for evil? It's all relative, one man's hobby is another man's worst nightmare and all that. I have many stories to tell on such things, heck, I go to a forum which could be defined as "not good".

ET Warrior
09-27-2005, 09:07 AM
NO and really mean NO game is perfect that is based on films or whatever...There's a big difference between perfect correlation, and appearing to not care at all. I believe the problem most people have is that it seems like they aren't even TRYING to match the movies.

TK-8252
09-27-2005, 05:46 PM
You know, I find it strange how you refer to our critisism of something that needs to be improved as "crying." I hope you know that your misuse of the word "crying" to describe the critisism directed towards your beloved Battlefront makes you look foolish (not saying you're a fool, but that your misuse of the word in a subtle attempt to insult is foolish). You know that critisism is actually a GOOD thing? Because it allows for things to be IMPROVED.

well TK u havent read my post, have u?

Yes I have.

but i cant understand the crying "This game sucks my Heavy Trooper is blue not green"

I never recall saying that the Heavy Trooper needs to be green.

if u really can give me one proofed example i will immediatly stop saying that crying about missing or wrong details is childish.

Crying about such things would be childish, yes. But critisizing the blantant errors and failed attempts that the developers have made is not crying, not whining, not moaning, and not childish.

Look, in the name of something real evil, just STOP. You don't get it. I haven't insulted anyone since my first post on this thread and it wasn't even you. And the person it was I apologised to.

Oh great, now I'm evil. I feel like Sean Hannity when that black fundamentalist called him the devil. Oh well.

And here, I'll quote where you decided it would be fun to throw those subtle insults in, excluding the girlfriend part (you must be so proud of that):

Wait, you've been whinging non-stop about how much SWBF2 sucks on and on and when I do make a sensible (but long post), instead of reading it and making a point you sit back and moan again?

So yeah, like I said above. Critisizing the blantant errors and failed attempts that the developers have made is not crying, not whining, not moaning, and not childish.


It seems to me that for some reason the "majority" here (people who post about how good the game is) feel it's acceptable to kick around the "minority" (people who openly critisize the game). That kind of thing bores me really fast.

zerted
09-27-2005, 07:36 PM
...NO and really mean NO game is perfect that is based on films or whatever...give just 1 Film+Game which are TOTALLY equal in case of Details (and with Details i dont mean the texture realism, i mean weapons, characters,etc. but i think u know it already)...

Since you said the phrase, "<i>[game] that is based on films or whatever...</i>", I can provide an example of such a game.

Chess. I've seen movies about it and I have played a few computer games about it. In the movies and games, both the characters and the weapons were exactly the same. They all had the same properties and physics. The colors/texture were slightly off, but you said that doesn't count.

In fact, just about all games where there is a set of rules (such as card games and board games) fall into this catergory. The reason SWBF and the movies are off, is because of who made them. Lucas though up a few movies and the company though up a computer game. Each wants to be creative and no where is there a set of rules to follow. Thus, each develop their own products slightly different, because they each have different ideas, which are not governed by an exact set of rules.

HordaK
09-28-2005, 03:16 AM
okay TK, then i remove the word "crying" with "complaining", happy?

Well TK i think ur an intelligent person, referring to ur posts, so u should figure out that the "Omg this game sucks cause my heavy trooper is BLUE not GREEN" was just an example, i didnt wanna read all ur posts to find a point like this so i just took one that may match to many complaints like "The Commander is a Galactic Marine" or "The Droid commander should only have yellow marks..." and i never said ur the only one whos complaining about such things

btw i never posted the "...in the name of something real evil" thing but my name is above this quote, so how did that happen....

u said in any post u like realism in games, dunno if it was in this thread...well dont tell me the BF2 Stunts are realistic, u cant blow a tank miles away with 3 Detpacks on its back, some BF2 stunts may be realistic, but that definitly not, so ur loved Battlefield is even not the most realistic game, but that may not make the game worse i know the battlefield series is great, but there are even unrealistics

and im not a lover of Battlefront, i like Movie Battles 2 much more, cause its just 1000 Times better, and its only a free MOD and not an expensive "Full Game" i dislike the Battlefront engine and the physics aswell but i really dont care if t he commander is a Marine, the Heavy Trooper Bacaraa or whoever or if the Rebels Capital ship is part of the Republics Space Vehicles....its just a game if i want pure realism i walk right out my door and enjoy the nature


now to u zerted...

i never knew that Chess was invited in a movie and was just then "produced" u should atleast try to understand my "Phrases" right.... i mean Games like Any Star Wars game, Aliens, Aliens Vs. Predator or any Wargames that are based on a special moment in one WW...u know? i mean games which source was a Movie or a real Situation in the Past, and i dont put Card Games and Chess in that category..so i want a proofed example of a (Computer)game which IDEA was born in a movie and was completiy and 100% the SAME like this mentioned Movie

Redtech
09-28-2005, 04:49 AM
TK, I love playing with words, ever watched Monty Python? Way better than The Simpsons hands down. Or Red Dwarf, they are the masters of unique swearing.

As always you seem to find a passion in using anything that anyone says to prove that I have personally insulted you. These are called "observations". Convince me, like Maxmayhem that you know what you're on about and I'll be generally nicer. Oh and don't argue that you know the reg number of the Clone trooper on the left in frame 1138 of Ep3 or something like that, I mean, from a game-designing point of view. Granted, we're not game designers, but you seem to act like the Counterstrike team are making BF2 (in that they have a rep for "realistic weapons"). Pandemic do console arcady games, it's their reason-to-be at the mo. It's why I view BF1/2 as a console game, rather than a PC one.

Also, you misstake my viewpoint on BF2. I said I was "On the fence" on it. But I realise that it is not going to be half the game that UT2k7 is trying to be, so complaining about things that were inevitably going to happen doesn't seem a point to me. You could argue that creating a 200 point list of the flaws of BF1 is a worthy cause, but I can't be bothered, I'm busy in the final year of a genetics degree. I should waste more effort on "bastardising life as we know it" (litearlly, "Mum's the word.") ;)

Anyway, we can all conclude that SWBF2 is not going to be a realistic or accurate interpretation of Star Wars in general. Why? Probably too many to count. But it's too late to make these issues have any impact on the final game. They'd be better used so that SWB3 is a heck of a lot better on next-generation consoles that are actually physically capable of doing these sort of games justice.

Unless I really need to start a thread on "BF1 Dark Trooper sucks versus rebel pilot" as if it matters now.

Oh yeah, Zerted, the Alien vs Predator films/games are a good example of attention to detail, you get a pretty convincing array of abilities. Heck, running around as an alien on ceilings and feasting on the brains of innocents is amazing. Or being able to plasmacaster someone while invisible as a Predator is quite cool.

TK-8252
09-28-2005, 05:42 PM
btw i never posted the "...in the name of something real evil" thing but my name is above this quote, so how did that happen....

Shoot, my bad... I'll edit it.

u said in any post u like realism in games, dunno if it was in this thread...well dont tell me the BF2 Stunts are realistic, u cant blow a tank miles away with 3 Detpacks on its back, some BF2 stunts may be realistic, but that definitly not, so ur loved Battlefield is even not the most realistic game, but that may not make the game worse i know the battlefield series is great, but there are even unrealistics

I'm unsure of what you mean by "BF2 Stunts." If you C4 a tank it just blows up, not get thrown across the place.


Also, I hope that I didn't step on any toes too bad in this thread. If anyone feels that my attitude is too aggressive I apologize.

zerted
09-28-2005, 09:57 PM
To Hordak: I understood your post, mine was partly an attempt at a joke (most of my posts are). Chess popped into my mind when I read "<i>is based on films <b>or whatever...</b></i>. I was more making fun of the many different ways an english phrase can be interpreted then trying to disprove your statement.

HordaK
09-29-2005, 03:14 AM
Hmm ur a great Battlefield Fan TK, right? and i think BF2 is not ur first BF, so u dont know about the BF stunts which are in every BF game? here some examples

1. You put some TNT on the ground, someone else driving a Jeep straight at that TNT and u blow it in the moment the Jeep is on it, boom, the jeeps fly high through the air (If ur timing is really good)

2. You are in an Aircraft flying over an Airbase, jumping out ur Plane without using the parachute right above an empty plane on the ground, and now before u hit the ground, or the plane in that case, press "Enter" in the right moment to enter the plane without taking any damage

3. i read it somewhere on a Website with some screens of it, 3 x C4 on the back of a Tank, boom the tank flies like a bird in the sky

4. Not a stunt in that kinda meaning, Planes for more than one person, for example the Japanese Plane in BF1942, u go in alone and if someone is on ur tail u switch the seat to the rear gunners position and blow the enemy away (leaving the plane flying alone) then switching back to the pilots seat and fly urself again, if u havent hit the ground yet ^^

that are just some examples of the stunts in the battlefield series, im sure if u are such a big fan u heard of the stunts, if not, then u did that now : )

Redtech
09-29-2005, 04:08 AM
Well, Halo 2 at least has enter/exit animations for all vehicles! Although they do explain the "jump out and jack a vehicle in mid/air thing.

TK-8252
09-29-2005, 08:59 AM
that are just some examples of the stunts in the battlefield series, im sure if u are such a big fan u heard of the stunts, if not, then u did that now : )

I never played other games in the BF series... I got hooked on BF2 from the free multiplayer demo. But it seems to me that such "stunts" would be impossible in BF2...

HordaK
09-29-2005, 03:29 PM
Trust me TK, they will work in BF2 aswell, i started BF with BF1942 and from that day i never heard of a BF game without any Stunts...

A Battlefield game without stunts is like Lucas Arts without George (no not the heaven on earth), just unimaginable

zerted
09-29-2005, 07:27 PM
...2. You are in an Aircraft flying over an Airbase, jumping out ur Plane without using the parachute right above an empty plane on the ground, and now before u hit the ground, or the plane in that case, press "Enter" in the right moment to enter the plane without taking any damage
Man, thats the type of seat coshinning I want on my chairs...

boinga1
09-29-2005, 07:43 PM
Technically, I don't think George has much to do with the day-to-day running of Lucasarts... he's more Lucasfilms. Of course, the fact remains that there would be no "Lucas"arts with George, so that's rather moot.
What are we taking about in this thread again? I thought it was SWBF2 hate, now it's BF2 stunts... :confused:

zerted
09-29-2005, 07:45 PM
Any SWBF2 stunts? Anyone...?

Redtech
09-30-2005, 05:22 AM
Do you think that bug that all anti-grav vehicles can climb slopes horrizonatally is still in. I really hope it is. BEST BUG EVER! No really. It's a laugh to attack Rhen Var Harbour from "above" in a Clone Tank, let me tell you.

HordaK
09-30-2005, 12:14 PM
well that climb up bug is not my problem on Rhen Var, i always have my sniper rifle and sit in a Window and wait until the tanker leaves his tank to capture the command post.... The only SWBF Bug i really hate is the "Look i hide in the Wall i can own u until i run out of ammo, and u can do nothing against it cause u can only shoot trough the wall from 1 side, and thats mine"

zerted
09-30-2005, 11:14 PM
Do you think that bug that all anti-grav vehicles can climb slopes horrizonatally is still in. I really hope it is. BEST BUG EVER!...
I like that bug too. It really adds some hope to any side that has suddenly been overrun. They can drive over the mountain, get a CP, and lanuch a counter-attack from the new flank.


(I was the first one I saw doing it online. Discovered it last year around Oct. Anyone know of it before that? Just wondering...)

Kurgan
10-01-2005, 05:40 PM
Let's not flame here guys (I know it's not all of you, this is directed at the few who are). It's one thing to be upset/ambivalent or voice real concerns about this game (or the previous one). It's quite another to bash other users of this forum. So let's be civil, even while we disagree.

Everybody understand? Good. ;)

Now that the beta is "free" we should be sending all this feedback directly to Pandemic as well, where it can do the most good.

PS: They really better fix those "hide in wall" exploits on the maps before release. I hope this isn't the reason why they're supposedly nixing certain maps (ignore the problem rather than fix it, so the game suffers).

HordaK
10-01-2005, 06:23 PM
Well never thought of it but now.....yes they left out the maps in which that Wallhide Bug was possible, Rhen Var Harbour and Kashyyk Docks.....these the 2 maps i know the bug.. dunno if its possible on other maps aswell

Kurgan
10-01-2005, 06:51 PM
Seems like a really lazy solution to me. Got a bug in the map? Delete the map! Lame.
;P

zerted
10-01-2005, 10:43 PM
They can hire me if they want them fixed. Just extending the wall on most of them would solve the problems. It would be better if they put in the instant kill 'texture' behind every wall. That would stop all wall hacking.

TK-8252
10-01-2005, 11:46 PM
Alright, I tried the beta. Guess what? It's even worse than I thought.

First of all - BUGGY AS HELL. Alright, well it's a beta still, but there were bugs still remaining from the original Battlefront. But after a few minutes of play... my computer just restarts? WTF? How can you play a game that shuts down your computer after you start playing?

Second - any shred of accuracy to the Star Wars universe has been thrown out, period. Pretty much everything is screwed up. You name it, it's wrong. I'm not even going to make a list of the inaccuracies, unless I can just write "Star Wars Battlefront II" and that includes it all. The devs have made NO effort to stay the slightest bit true to the Star Wars universe... it seems like they screwed it up on purpose.

Third - gameplay HAS NOT BEEN IMPROVED. Physics, animations, combat, everything, is just like the original. People running around everywhere shooting and dying... there's no rhyme or reason to anything. There's no teamwork, there's no skill, there's no sense of seriousness at all. It's just an arcade game.

Fourth - is this 1999? Because it sure looks like it judging by the graphics. I mean, the original Half-Life has better graphics than this. This is 2005, almost 2006... and they're still using the graphics used last millenium.

So anyone saying "hay paly teh gaem b4 whingng abot it!!1" can stop saying that, because I just tried it, which I used to get the above conclusions.

zerted
10-02-2005, 02:38 AM
To what bugs are you refering to TK-8252?

TK-8252
10-02-2005, 02:42 AM
To what bugs are you refering to TK-8252?

SWBF2

zerted
10-02-2005, 02:53 AM
Ok, fine. Don't give me a list. Your statement "BUGGY AS HELL" doesn't mean much if you can't provide some examples. You are right about the graphics though, they are below par.

Anyone like the dying animations? You just disapear :blast5:.

TK-8252
10-02-2005, 02:57 AM
Ok, fine. Don't give me a list. Your statement "BUGGY AS HELL" doesn't mean much if you can't provide some examples.

I did provide an example. Restarting after minutes of play.

There's also instances of lock-ups where I couldn't use the keyboard or mouse, yet everything around me was going on as usual.

But I'm not going to make a list. Too long, and too tiring for me to bother with.

zerted
10-02-2005, 03:25 AM
Ok, I was just wondering. Mine crashes to the desktop sometimes (less often than SWBF1 does) but thats the only problem I've seen so far...

TK-8252
10-02-2005, 03:26 AM
Mine crashes to the desktop sometimes

Yup. Mine too.

Commander Obi-Wan
10-02-2005, 04:18 AM
Mine hasn't yet....

MachineCult
10-02-2005, 07:38 AM
Mine just won't run, i double click on the icon and nothing happens, is it my computer?

zerted
10-02-2005, 08:11 AM
Most likely it is your computer. Open the 'Windows Task Manager' before you attempt to play the game. Go to the 'Processes' tab and see if something like BattlefrontIIEngBeta.exe shows up when you try to play. If it doesn't, then the game didn't even attempt to start.

MachineCult
10-02-2005, 08:31 AM
It runs for a second and then stops. I hate my computer, any ideas on what i could do?

Kurgan
10-02-2005, 02:37 PM
Okay, my curiosity finally got the better of me and I tried out the beta last night. Played a few space maps, tried to play Utapau and it crashed to the desktop upon connect (twice) so I gave up. Here were my random impressions (scribbled these down last night so ignore any typos or bad grammar):

337 players, wow more than SWBF1!

There's a loading progress bar, yes! Tool tips between maps! One Flag CTF on the space maps!

Seperate control setups for turrets and Jedi!

HUD sucks. Chat sucks.. somehow hard to type, font too small, appears at top of screen where it cant be seen well (especially on space maps).

They made the weapons HUD larger and put it at the bottom of the screen.. okay that's good, but they nixed the mini map radar and put the chat text UP TOP (so you have to look away from what you're doing to see it, and it's too small anyway. Very annoying. Take a page from Jedi Academy here I say. Everything's right where you need it, easy to see, you don't have to be scanning your eyes all over the entire screen to keep track of stuff.

Rolling is now a seperate function. Good idea I guess, if you ever want to just leap to the side or roll forwards (no back roll apparently). Can't fire while jumping in any case.

Jedi have a MANUAL BLOCK (I haven't been a Jedi yet, but there's a block button). So apparently you're not blocking constantly like the Heroes in SWBF1. Force power is a button. There's a cycle force power thing, so you can have more than one power per character. There's also force jump (independent of regular jump?).

Fighter control still sucks. You continuously move forward until you hold "back."
Dog fighting is next to impossible. The people who die are the ones who fly straight for a long period of time. Haven't mastered the art of "locking on" yet.

No more cockpit view for starfighters? :( Maybe I just forgot to bind the key... I hope that's all it was.

Everything is still very arcadey, but...

Siege Destroyer is far superior in terms of fighter control (even though doing those little rolls looks cool, not sure how much it really helps avoid enemies). Targets are so tiny, move so fast and are usually so far away, that flying has a high learning curve. You've got two types of ships... slow, sluggish and big, and tiny and fast. I guess this was to encourage convoy type tactics, but I don't see anyone coordinating them yet. Once people learn how to fly... but seriously the fighters just don't have a good feel to them. SWBF1 they were just for hovering and firing at the ground, then weaving off and doing it again. Dumping them into space just exposes their flaws in design, unfortunately. I'm sure you could get used to them eventually, but for now I just wish they'd gone with a better system, like JA's.

Lots of lag. Everyone's "connection interrupted" icons were flashing like crazy so they would just turn them off.


Everyone uses Friendly Fire, which of course sucks. It's so pointless a feature in online play with humans.

No mini map on space maps! To see the map you have to click the button to display the large map which obscures your view of things.

Still no way to type once the map ends to say "gg" or whatever. No chatting again until the next map begins.

Graphics look a little nicer (rather plastic and cartoony feeling though). Space maps are nice, lots of room to fly, but the poor fighter control reduces their fun. It's mostly chaos now, have little idea what's going on, no teamwork.

You can take off and fly around inside your hangar, but you can't bail out once you've left the ground and you can't fire until you're out of the hangar. Interesting. I guess it's stop somebody from flying in, then just hovering inside blowing everyone up at their spawn points. Glad they caught that one!

Crashes when I try to play a ground battle map on connect...

No first person view for turrets?

I felt like I was playing SWBF1 again but with more chaos. The game felt a bit choppier and slower, but that could be because of Multiplayer lag (I didn't even check to see if there was an FPS cap on MP or not, anybody check that) and having accidentally cranked the settings up to 1280x1024 (I normally run SWBF1 at full settings on 1024x768).

Since it's a beta, I should hope most of the game stopping bugs would be corrected upon release (this is where you testers come in, pound that sucker hard!). A lot of 'sploits I tried had thankfully been fixed!

I wasn't able to bomb the inside of hangars, or eject into space for example. I could TK with impunity but that's because nobody knows how to vote and team damage is always on because hosts think it's "more realistic." I got told to "stop TKing" but that was it. ;)

I really wonder about the chat though. I normally type just fine, but in SWBF1 and 2 I type like a little kid. The letters are so messed up sometimes it looks like I'm dyslexic or have fat fingers or something. Maybe it's a combination of the lag/framerate and the fact that I can't see what I'm typing? :P

Rends
10-02-2005, 03:26 PM
Kurgan,
Space fighter controls are nice if you use a joystick!
About turrets if you zoom in you have a firstperson view if i remember right.

TK-8252,
if you donīt come up with a buglist your post arnīt more than flaming or whining (take what you want).

I would like to have rolling L/R on double press A nd D key like it works with fighters.

swphreak
10-02-2005, 03:37 PM
After playing the beta for 5 minutes, I can already tell you I think it sucks. Only difference I see between the two is new maps and you have to earn characters. In fact, I think SWBFI is better.

TK-8252
10-02-2005, 04:08 PM
TK-8252,
if you donīt come up with a buglist your post arnīt more than flaming or whining (take what you want).

Who am I flaming? LucasArts? Pandemic? And whining? I think you mean critisizing, sir.

And I did list a few bugs, and the rest have been posted by Kurgan and others.

Rebel_Trooper
10-02-2005, 04:47 PM
Only difference I see between the two is new maps and you have to earn characters.

I think they had to do that to stop everyone being the overpowered MagnaGuard and Commander!

I actually think SWBF2 is better, but each to thier own.

TK was right though, accuracy and consistency really has fallen like an Atlas 'Mech with 1000 buses attached that is is the middle of the sky.

Still I think it's better, but only just.

Kurgan
10-02-2005, 07:31 PM
Okay, after playing for a bit (on my own server so I'm not totally lagging out) I'm going to say that the infantry combat seems improved over SWBF1. It's not up to JA standards, but it's a lot more fun... what with getting heroes and earning other classes and all that. Granted, it's way off in terms of 'realism' and they've pumped up Infantry at the expense of vehicles (they're a lot slower and easier to destroy now).

Many of the flaws present in SWBF1 are still here. It still has a consoley/arcadey feel which will turn some people off. Likewise the communication's model is horrible (this game seems made for voice communication with a group of friends on your team). The AI seems vastly improved, and giving orders to bots actually works (you can ask them for health for example). A lot of voice samples are still missing (silent commands) and they may or may not be added for the final game, I don't know. There's a lot of place holders... several classes have an exotic weapon but the model is just of a standard pistol or rifle. Given how SWBF1 had placeholders (like the Darktrooper's "cannon") I'm not too hopeful that they'll give them new weapon models.

You still can't type once the battle has been won, and you have to wait for the next map to load before you can quit. The radar thing is a major issue.

A lot of the flaws aren't bugs necessarily, they're just poor design decisions or glaring omissions (when compared to what kinds of things we've come to expect in other PC FPS games).

With regards to the bot difficulty though it looks like they just removed "Easy" and changed Hard's name to "Elite" (and you'll remember they improved Hard in the last patch for SWBF1). There were still a few bots who stood facing walls the entire match and bots that had difficulty tracking their targets (firing even though there was a closed door or wall between them).

Grenades bounce all over the place (more than usual?) and have a high probability of hitting your own teammates (who don't run away from your grenades.. so all the more reason to turn off Friendly Fire!).


Space combat is the real disappointment though, sadly. It just doesn't seem well planned out. :P

As for using a joystick, oh well. I thought about buying a flight stick years ago for XWA but never got around to it. A good one tends to be somewhat expensive for what little I'd use it. Would it be good to have it on standby for when I hop into a vehicle? Perhaps...

Arc-453
10-02-2005, 07:55 PM
WTF R U SMOKING!?!?!? swbf series rocks now if u don't like it go post on a less popular website so the creator can delete it and SHOVE IT UP UR -- hem hem, ok we know u hate swbf and swbf2 but no need 2 publicize that fact. this discussion is for people who like star wars not 4 some fat @ss lazy b*tches who are too lazy to f*ckin get their ass off the swbf case and decide to go spam the goddamned forums so *snip*


Such fowl language. For shame ~ET

TK-8252
10-02-2005, 07:59 PM
What a wonderful way to represent the pro-SWBF opinion.

I applaud you, sir.

Mike Windu
10-02-2005, 08:09 PM
Blahahahahahahahhahahaha.

Keep it up buddy, I'm sure you'll last long in the forums at this rate.

Kurgan
10-02-2005, 08:32 PM
WTF R U SMOKING!?!?!? swbf series rocks now if u don't like it go post on a less popular website so the creator can delete it and SHOVE IT UP UR -- hem hem, ok we know u hate swbf and swbf2 but no need 2 publicize that fact. this discussion is for people who like star wars not 4 some fat @ss lazy b*tches who are too lazy to f*ckin get their ass off the swbf case and decide to go spam the goddamned forums so go shove ur d|ck in ur boyfriend's lesbian mom

If you can't take opposing viewpoints or criticism of something you like, then perhaps you don't belong on these forums...

This is your first and last warning. Refrain from such abusive flames in the future or you'll be banned.

zerted
10-02-2005, 09:18 PM
I agree, I hate the text. Its too small ( my resolution is 1600 by 1200) and the map's lighter backgrounds make it almost impossible to read. When you are typing, if shows up under/on top of other messages and you can't see read anything. The only thing I do like is that the different type of messages are colored.

About the units, I can't say much because I've only been playing as a sniper. (Got to pratice extra hard because it has no crosshair) One thing I can say about the units is the Jedi. I hate it when I don't notice 'the press F2 to not be a Jedi' and the next thing I know, I'm a Jedi. The default should be you <b>don't</b> respond as a Jedi unless you press F1, not the other way around.

Another thing I don't like at the moment, but will have to get used to, is the view while waiting to respawn. Currently in SWBF2 you watch through the eyes of a fellow teammate. I find this confusing. I sometimes I think I have just respawned and attempt to play, even though its just the view from another player. A few times, I have respawned under 1 second and have though I was looking through someone else's unit. Along comes an enemy and destroys the unit. Thinking to myself: "That person sucks. He just stood there and died, didn't even put up a fight (maybe he was typing?)" Only to figure out a second later: "Oh crap, that was me!"

I have found two 'map glitches' but luckly they cannot be exploited. (at least I keep dying when I try)

Jan Gaarni
10-03-2005, 06:26 AM
I am going to give you one more warning, Arc-453.

I've been reviewing your posting habits, and lately you've been bumping year old dead threads (spam).

Don't.

Consider yourself lucky I'm in a good mood (and can't remember the Mod page addy :D ), so I'm going to let you off the hook this time in hopes you'll take this in and make sure you won't do it in the future.

Kurgan
10-06-2005, 11:13 AM
Also, this game BADLY needs an MP console. With the bad typing and being unable to see what you're writing, it's pathetic doing admin commands. Half the time you'll either forget a / or the game will drop out a / and you'll end up broadcasting your admin command to the world. Pretty lame... and completely unnecessary if they'd just give you a console instead of forcing you to use the chat for it!

Heck, even JK1 had a seperate command console, back in 1997! Get with the times, Pandemic!

Also I see you can't lie "prone" anymore. Though of course they may have just left that out of the beta for all we know... I know many people will miss that feature!

Something else I noticed.. if you kick somebody (through the kick console) but type the command twice, they get kicked, and then the next time they join, they're kicked again, automatically! It apparently records how many times you hit the button, so don't do it a dozen times unless you want them to stay kicked for awhile! :P

^Invader
10-06-2005, 01:22 PM
Well i downloaded the beta haven't played it yet, was hoping to put on the 501st helmet since im a member of the actual organzation :) Will I buy BF2 well i bought SWG which is buggy since day one, also again being a member of the 501st , and it being star wars.

So yeah will I buy it sure, thing is everyone has to remember it's beta it's not going to be perfect the second it comes out. Look at countless games that has had patches, yeah i know LEC should know better by now but heck Flanneled one knows what he is doing lol