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View Full Version : Mana Usage Values Needed: Testers Please!


Kurgan
09-27-2005, 02:01 PM
See the following page:

http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/light.shtml

I realize that I'd forgotten to fill in the mana usage values for basejka's LightSide Force powers in the following areas:

Force Team Heal Level 1, Level 2, Level 3.

Force Mind Trick Level 1, Level 2.

Force Absorb Level 2.

All I need for people to do is fire up basejka (Jedi Academy 1.01 with default cvars, ie: no mods that Force stuff or increased force mana regen) and write down how much mana you use up with a press of the key to use the power. I'll put the numbers up on my page as soon as possible and credit you on the thanks page/lightside page. ;)

I just have been too busy to play the game and test this stuff, though I could do so on the weekend it would be much faster if some folks who know could help.

Thanks very much in advance! I had forgotten these still weren't done... let's get that Light Side page complete! So if you see any other errors or omissions, I'd be most grateful for your feedback...

ZeroX2
09-27-2005, 02:11 PM
I'm sure that level three Team Heal costs 20 force points, but I'll test all them in a bit.

Kurgan
09-27-2005, 02:41 PM
The question with Team Heal is also how it behaves when you have multiple persons being healed. Does it subtract 20 mana (or whatever) to heal EACH person or does it use up 20 healing say, all three?

This is highly difficult to test (unless you have some people willing to help) which is another reason I never got it done...

Thanks much! Anybody willing to help him out?

ZeroX2
09-27-2005, 02:58 PM
Team Heal 3 - 15 Force Points
Team Heal 2 - 33 Force Points
Team Heal 1 - 50 Force Points
Mind Trick 2 - 20 Force Points
Mind Trick 1 - 20 Force Points
Absorb 2 - 16 Force Points

I'll test out Team Heal with multiple people in a bit, then. That's with one. I'm sure it'll be the same though.

Edit: Team Heal uses the same amount of force, even with multiple people being healed.

Kurgan
09-27-2005, 08:59 PM
Team Heal 3 - 15 Force Points
Team Heal 2 - 33 Force Points
Team Heal 1 - 50 Force Points
Mind Trick 2 - 20 Force Points
Mind Trick 1 - 20 Force Points
Absorb 2 - 16 Force Points

I'll test out Team Heal with multiple people in a bit, then. That's with one. I'm sure it'll be the same though.

Edit: Team Heal uses the same amount of force, even with multiple people being healed.

Awesome! I updated the pages (please note your name on the thanks page (http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/thanks.shtml)!).

Great, now if you see anything else amiss, please let me know, and continue testing that Saber Offense thing...

ZeroX2
09-28-2005, 12:29 PM
Awesome! I updated the pages (please note your name on the thanks page (http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/thanks.shtml)!).

Great, now if you see anything else amiss, please let me know, and continue testing that Saber Offense thing...
No problem. ^^ If it's not too much trouble, could you change the name to Fusion? I only registered this name because that was taken. Or something - I forget. ^^

And I'll definately try and test the Saber Offense thing some more.

Edit: Oh, and while we're at it - there are two dead links in the Other Guides section of the site (the Siege for Dummies and SaberStaff Strategies ones). Those should probably be fixed or something. I'm sure you posted your own version of RpTheHotrod's site somewhere on the boards here (I downloaded it) - perhaps you could just host that on your site or something?

acdcfanbill
09-29-2005, 04:13 AM
for MP anyway, your force heal is incorrect.
lvl1: 65 force = 5hp
lvl2: 60 force = 10hp
lvl3: 50 force = 25hp

Kurgan
09-29-2005, 10:19 AM
Thanks. I thought I based the values straight from JA's own internal "rules" section (and that didn't change via the patch) but I could have mistyped. I'll look into it later!

acdcfanbill
09-29-2005, 05:45 PM
perhaps thats what they say i didnt look, i just saw them and remimbered that heal lvl1 gave 5 hp, so i quick went in game and checked them all :)

Kurgan
09-29-2005, 08:36 PM
Now I'm thinking I just copied the values from Jedi Outcast, since I don't think the values changed in the 1.01 patch... I'd be curious to double check but I don't have time right now.

ZeroX2
10-01-2005, 11:16 AM
Some other things I've noticed.

http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/holocron.shtml

About half way through that page it again says twice that Mind Trick level 3 hides you from everybody on the map.

http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/jedivsmerc.shtml

The title of that page is "Outcast Strategy", though it is still under the JKA folder. The page itself seems to be taken right from the JO area, mentioning the JO patch and things.

Kurgan
10-01-2005, 04:05 PM
You're right ZeroX2/Fusion! I originally planned to write those pages for JA, but thought I'd save some time by copy and pasting them directly from Outcast Strategy.

This was after having played the modes in OJP enough to feel they warranted their own page. I made some quick edits, removing references to the Bryar/Stun Baton and Bacta pickups and fixed the Mind Trick inaccuracies. Let me know if you find any other problems, thanks!

ZeroX2
10-04-2005, 02:22 PM
Force Pull 2 uses 20 force (like Force Push), not 19. There's another mistake. ^^

Kurgan
10-04-2005, 05:09 PM
Are you sure??? Double check that.. I swore I got it right (but if I'm wrong, I'll change it, just want to be sure)!

ZeroX2
10-04-2005, 07:16 PM
Yeah, it's definately 20.

Edit: Just tested Push and Pull level one - they also use 20 force points, not 19. >_>

Kurgan
10-05-2005, 04:44 PM
Fixed! I assume the value for 20 is the same for all three levels of Push/Pull then?

I just now realized that I don't have anything listed for Force Jump Level 1! (Yoda says: "How embarrassing!") The range of values I put down for the other levels were the lowest possible "Force" jump you could do vs. the max height mana usage. Can you test that last one for me? I'm pretty sure that should finish up the last of the JA mana usage values (I hope!).

Btw, do you have Jedi Outcast by any chance? There's a few numbers I should probably verify there as well (namely Level 1-3 Drain in the 1.03 or later patches)... if you've got the time/desire! ;)

ZeroX2
10-05-2005, 05:20 PM
Fixed! I assume the value for 20 is the same for all three levels of Push/Pull then?
Right.

I just now realized that I don't have anything listed for Force Jump Level 1!
Yeah, I was going to say. >_>

Can you test that last one for me?
Just tested it. Force Jump level one uses 22-38 force points, it seems.

Btw, do you have Jedi Outcast by any chance? There's a few numbers I should probably verify there as well (namely Level 1-3 Drain in the 1.03 or later patches)... if you've got the time/desire! ;)
Of course I have Jedi Outcast! I suppose I could test some other things if you like, then.

Edit: I also saw this on the site.
It was the case in Jedi Outcast that Mana Recharge rates were greatly affected by the Force Masterly Level of the server. Further testing is needed before it can be judged the same in JKA.
I did a quick test in JA and didn't notice any difference.

Edit: I also noticed this on the site - on the Force page (http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/force.shtml) the links at the top work fine for accessing the Light/Dark pages. The links at the bottom of the page, however, do not. The URLs lack the /jka/ part.

Kurgan
10-05-2005, 06:42 PM
Just tested it. Force Jump level one uses 22-38 force points, it seems.


Check!

Of course I have Jedi Outcast! I suppose I could test some other things if you like, then.

Awesome! Man you've been a big help in such a short time! ;)

I really need the Force Drain values (for 1.03 or later patch), and then it's complete, unless you see anything that looks wrong!


I did a quick test in JA and didn't notice any difference.


Removed it then. Check.

Edit: I also noticed this on the site - on the Force page (http://strategy.jediknight.net/jka/force.shtml) the links at the top work fine for accessing the Light/Dark pages. The links at the bottom of the page, however, do not. The URLs lack the /jka/ part.

Worst of all, they were still pointing back to JediKnightii.net (the site used to be hosted on JK2.net after all). Wow! :D Fixed!

ZeroX2
10-08-2005, 12:28 PM
Whoa, it's been a while since I've played Jedi Outcast. >_>

Apparently Drain level one uses up half a segment (out of the fourteen segments). Drain level two uses half a segment (minimum), and ten and a half (maximum). Drain level three uses half a segment (minimum), and eleven (maximum).

Kurgan
10-08-2005, 01:37 PM
Drain Level 1 is a one shot deal (vs the others), so that makes sense.

I'm glad you remembered to put in the min/max values (for one tap vs. holding it down until the power stops) since I forgot to specify that. ;)

The half segments thing gets annoying, and I'm plugging in those values now!

But now the other question, and this will take a partner to do....

How much mana does each level of power drain from THE ENEMY and how much health does each restore to the user?

The values you gave me (I assume) were just the amount of mana it uses up from the user.

Before the patch, each level healed you the same number of health points that it drained in mana points from the enemy. (10/10, 15/15, 20/20).

Edit: Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I factored in "half segments" when I did the JK2 pages at all. If they came out "even" then they're okay, but if there were any other half segment using up powers those will need to be corrected (doh!). ;P So there's more work to be done if you're interested, after getting Drain!

ZeroX2
10-08-2005, 02:10 PM
Hmm, I can have a look at the other powers and check if they're correct, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to test Drain. It's difficult to find somebody to help. >_>

Kurgan
10-08-2005, 02:23 PM
I know what you mean...

Tell them they'll get their name up on Outcast Strategy (JediKnight.net's official strategy page) in gratitude if they help you!

Also, I was thinking that Drain was "nerfed" in the JK2 patches, just as Heal was nerfed (ie: used up more mana for less benefit). But according to the numbers I got from you, it actually uses up slightly LESS mana this time! So I'm thinking if it was nerfed at all, it must either drain less mana or give you back less health for usage...

Kurgan
10-08-2005, 03:03 PM
Perhaps a post on the Jedi Outcast forum(s) would help?

Kurgan
10-16-2005, 07:25 PM
Any luck on this? Or anyone else willing to help us?

ZeroX2
10-16-2005, 07:55 PM
I've been trying to find somebody to help, but no luck. >_<

Kurgan
10-16-2005, 07:57 PM
Bummer. I wonder if there are any JK2 clans that would be willing to help?

All those "honorz" servers have so many rules preventing combat, that perhaps it might actually be easy to test it there, assuming their mods haven't screwed up the mana values for that power... (the regen might make it harder to test).

ZeroX2
10-21-2005, 06:51 PM
Nope, nobody seems to want to help. Sorry. =/

But I noticed something else on the site - under Force Jump, you mention how to perform the 'Superman' jumps. It's minor, but I think you should mention that a Saber Staff user can perform a kick at any time during those jumps, whereas in a normal jump, they cannot kick during the flip part of it.

Kurgan
10-22-2005, 03:31 AM
But can you even "flip" in a normal (non-force) jump?

I believe that move is literally referred to as a "force flip" in the game literature.

Or are you referring to the "advanced jump" animations (where you lean to the side while jumping?).

Though not strategically valuable, it is possible to do a more "dramatic" type of jump, performed by moving forward or sideways, hitting jump just as you release the directional movement key (letting the momentum carry you). Thus you get a different animation for each of the jumps. Once performed, you can also tap the movement key for a little bit of extra distance.

>?

I can't remember, but I thought a kick could be performed anytime and it would simply break you out of the flip animation to do it.

ZeroX2
10-22-2005, 10:13 AM
In a non-force jump and the 'dramatic' animation force jumps, you can kick at any time and it'll simply break you out of the jump animation to do it.

In a standard force jump, you cannot kick during the the flipping/spinning part of it. You can only kick at the very start of those jumps, and towards the end.

Edit:
continue testing that Saber Offense thing...
I've been playing around a lot with Saber Offense level one and three (it's difficult to tell whether it's making a difference), and now I'm certain it affects all saber types. I tested a staff with level one saber offense and level three saber defense against various single saber users with level three saber offense/defense, and the majority of my attacks were easily knocked aside and blocked. I then tried level three saber offense, and it certainly made a difference. The in-game description even says something along the lines of "helps break through parries".

Kurgan
10-22-2005, 03:53 PM
In a non-force jump and the 'dramatic' animation force jumps, you can kick at any time and it'll simply break you out of the jump animation to do it.

In a standard force jump, you cannot kick during the the flipping/spinning part of it. You can only kick at the very start of those jumps, and towards the end.

Edit:

I've been playing around a lot with Saber Offense level one and three (it's difficult to tell whether it's making a difference), and now I'm certain it affects all saber types. I tested a staff with level one saber offense and level three saber defense against various single saber users with level three saber offense/defense, and the majority of my attacks were easily knocked aside and blocked. I then tried level three saber offense, and it certainly made a difference. The in-game description even says something along the lines of "helps break through parries".

I know what Defense does, rather I'm wondering what Offense does for the Staff/Duals.

I KNOW it helps you break saber locks.

It won't do any good to use it against somebody with lower defense, because everything goes through more easily (blasters have no "defense/offense" setting for example, they go through a lot more often on people with lower defense).

Keep testing, and if you find something, let me know, but I'm really only interested in the effects of Offense on Staff/Duals beyond what I already know. No offense.... ;)

So if you have:

Player1 Offense/Defense 3/3 vs.
Player 2 (staff/duals) with Offense/Defense 3/3...

compared with

Player1 Offense/Defense 3/3 vs.
Player2 (staff/duals) with Offense Level 1 or 2, and 3 defense....


How will the fight go differently (if at all)?


PS: As to the staff kick thing I'll check that out myself when I have time. Interesting, if you're right!

ZeroX2
10-22-2005, 04:01 PM
What?

Saber Offense does the following:
1. Adds stances to the Single Saber.
2. Increases the user's ability to break saber locks.
3. Increases the user's ability to break through enemy parries.

So the difference between your 'situation a' and 'situation b' is that in b, player 2 will find that his attacks are blocked more often (as he has less Offense to break through those blocks).

Kurgan
10-22-2005, 07:11 PM
What?


Yes.

Saber Offense does the following:
3. Increases the user's ability to break through enemy parries.

So the difference between your 'situation a' and 'situation b' is that in b, player 2 will find that his attacks are blocked more often (as he has less Offense to break through those blocks).

Okay then, may I quote you on the page (as Fusion)? ;)

ZeroX2
10-22-2005, 07:23 PM
Sure. >_>

Kurgan
10-22-2005, 07:50 PM
Okay, I'll update that later...