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View Full Version : SWBF II = Messed Up! ("realism" debate)


PR-0927
09-29-2005, 08:03 PM
Yes, it's outrageous what they have done, first let me start off with quoting myself from a different thread:

TK-8252 is always right. They ****ed up SWBF II so badly with incorrect names of vehicles, weapons, soldiers, etc. They even have Trade Federation Battle Droid Commanders as the...ENGINEERS! They screwed it all up. The TIE Bombers don't even shoot green TIE lasers, they shoot some wimpy red laser. And, the TIE Fighter has missiles...

The Galactic Empire also has a Theta-class T-2e Shuttle, when the Galactic Republic from RotS should have it...

- Majin Revan


Well, what else is wrong, well the "Heavy Trooper" for the Galactic Republic is actually Commander Bacara...might as well have a billion Yodas running around as a Jedi unit, huh? You see, there is only one Commander Bacara, like only one Luke, and one Yoda.

Also, the CIS has Trade Federation Battle Droid Commanders (yellow markings) as the engineer unit. WTF. Like really. In SWBF, the sniper class droid had red markings. Guess what? It was right (red is security, security would probably snipe). In SWBF II however, the red-marked droids are all of a sudden the anti-armor droids (which should be plain).

Now, what else...the Imperial Death Star Gunner is somehow the engineer class for the Galactic Empire...what gives? Those guys never got off their asses, they just sat in seats and pulled levers and pushed buttons.

Also, the anti-armor class for the Galactic Empire on every map is an Imperial Anti-Armor Sandtrooper...wait a minute...the word "sand" is in there for a reason. The soldier should be plain.

Now, moving back to vehicles...the BTL-S3 Y-wing Starfighter has this odd machine-gun like laser as the gunner's weapon. The developers had it right for SWBF, why not SWBF II...? Also, this weird weapon exists on many vehicles, not just this one, and these vehicles are completely different. They aren't even supposed to have these weapons!

Also, the capital ships all shoot green, red, and blue, yet everyone knows that the Imperial captial ships shot only green lasers, and the Rebel capital ships shot only red lasers...again, what gives? Are they trying to create their own version of Star Wars? If so, thumbs down to them.

Also, the names of everything are very very vague. The Theta-class T-2e Shuttle is named the "Landing Craft" or something very incorrect (plus, this is a Republic ship...).

Now, some people might think that this isn't a big deal. It is. Star Wars is always better when it is technical and more correct. It makes it like you are in the game, not just playing it (like real life, like the real-world military).

The new features of this game rock, but it'd be perfect if they had everything down correct. I'm sure TK-8252 agrees with me on this.

But, that is why there are mappers like me, who correct everything for their maps. I look forward to mapping for SWBF II and fixing up everything!

BTW- Some people might have just gotten information on new stuff from this.

;)

Thanks!

- Majin Revan

TK-8252
09-29-2005, 08:33 PM
I'm actually not sure about what they've done to the Battle Droids.

It seems to me that they remain mostly unchanged from SWBF, just with a MangaGuard added on. Some screenshots have shown a yellow-marked Battle Droid armed with an E-5, but I think that was just an early prototype for a Commander Droid, then they switched to the MagnaGuard (which screwed it up). It appears to me that the Assault Droid and Pilot Droid still have their skins swapped.

But yeah, I'm sure there'll be the usuals coming in saying "stop crying over little details" and yada yada, but oh well...

Hope to see you clean up this mess with your modding skills, Majin! ;)

McCusto
09-29-2005, 08:49 PM
Who said Battlefront II had to follow exactly like the movies? And who is to say that a trooper looked like Bacara? And how would you know the Imperial Gunners never did anything? They were like in the movie for 1 minute. Maybe you, as should TK-8252 and ET Warrior, acutally try the game before you decide it sucks.

ParanoidAndroid
09-29-2005, 09:29 PM
I agree with most of your points Majin. Although I'm not expecting the game to be 100% true to the movies, some of the things they are getting messed up could be fixed so easily. Anyway I'm glad to know that there will be people who will try to fix any mistakes the creators may make in the details.

Commander Obi-Wan
09-29-2005, 09:36 PM
Who said Battlefront II had to follow exactly like the movies? And who is to say that a trooper looked like Bacara? And how would you know the Imperial Gunners never did anything? They were like in the movie for 1 minute. Maybe you, as should TK-8252 and ET Warrior, acutally try the game before you decide it sucks.

I agree with you.

^Invader
09-29-2005, 10:07 PM
Also remember it is beta, so they are still probably trying to iron things out a bit :)

ET Warrior
09-29-2005, 10:31 PM
Who said Battlefront II had to follow exactly like the movies? If you're going to make a game based off of a movie license...it's typically expected that you remain at least somewhat faithful to your source material. And a little effort is usually appreciated. IF they couldn't be arsed to get names of things, and skins of things correct, then what kind of effort did they put into the actual game itself?

Redtech
09-30-2005, 04:41 AM
Erm. correct me if I'm wrong. But rocket launchers? When have they ever been in the films? As for TIE's what's the kill ratio for Ties to X wings? I'd so hate to pilot those hexagonal pieces of scrap.

Heck, they had a black rebel in BF1. I believe that token character role goes to Lando I'm afraid. Also, rebel shuttles? Don't see any in the films (unless we're counting those big transports).

Also, snipers, nah. Recon Stormies have bikes and poor piloting skills, that's all. Also, blasters are pretty much insta-kill no matter the calibre of weapon, unless you're a hero. I don't see rebel tanks or the Clone Tank for that matter. The AAT was a Trade Fed tank, not a CIS one. Also, take out the command ships and you kill all droids that they're responsible for, practically. Also, Ewoks should be insta-kills or extremely damaging to Storm trooper and YOU DO NOT get blown into the air when an AT-ST shoots at you.

Thermal detonators are not used as grenades. No gun has a used scope (besides sandpeople rifles), Wookies did not join the alliance. The Republic didn't invade Naboo, the Gungans can't throw those emp-balls easily, the Naboo royal Guard have poor weaponry, the Sandpeople are not ones for fighting a war, they're secretive nomads.

Rhen Var is EU. AT-AT's are unkillable except by tow-rope. Every AT-AT shot is an instakill to anything.

In the clone wars, regardless of armour thickness, you get shot, you die, vehicle or not. Combat occurs at near melee ranges only and they're ALL troopers, no specialists and few command officers in token "safe" locations.

Sorry, I know the list is not exhaustive.

Just to sum up. I believe the classes should be for BFront2: Soldier (restricted to ground levels), Pilot (Restricted to space levels). I think that about covers it and that the levels should be Endor, Hoth, and the Ep 2/3 planets. Because in the films, that's where the Rebel Armies and Imperial Armies fought on the ground, while the Clone wars were far more active. The space levels are Coruscant, Yarvin, Endor.

I think we can agree that if the game was like that, it'd be much truer to the films.

Jan Gaarni
09-30-2005, 05:07 AM
We can also agree that that's the poorest attempt against having it more like Star Wars (note, it's Star Wars, not the films that are being discussed here ;) ) ever presented here. :D

Was a good chuckle though. ;) :p

I give it a 9 for trying. :thumbsup:

Dagobahn Eagle
09-30-2005, 05:27 AM
Who said Battlefront II had to follow exactly like the movies?
Hmmm, let's see. Maybe whoever decided it should be based off of the Star Wars universe?

Part of making a product based on a universe is researching that universe. Star Wars game designers have a long and proud tradition of making very inaccurate games (the X-Wing series were not too accurate, and the Rogue Squadron series were a disaster accuracy-wise).

If you're not going to research what you are basing your game or movie or comic book or whatever on, then you probably shouldn't be basing your product off of that universe in the first place. Make up your own universe and feel free to put in whatever you want.

Well, what else is wrong, well the "Heavy Trooper" for the Galactic Republic is actually Commander Bacara...might as well have a billion Yodas running around as a Jedi unit, huh?
Here I disagree. Who says it's not just that the heavy troopers have the same weapon and armour as the commander (although it sounds very far-fetched).

And how would you know the Imperial Gunners never did anything?
Re-read his post, please.
He meant that they didn't do any "engineer things", they sat in seats and fired weapons, monitored monitors, and did "techie things".

But it's at least better than having pilots be engineer/medic hybrid:p (dangit, Wedge, get out of that X-Wing and get back here! We need medical support!). Engineer, OK. Medic? Nah.

The capital ships all shoot green, red, and blue, yet everyone knows that the Imperial captial ships shot only green lasers, and the Rebel capital ships shot only red lasers...again, what gives?
Not to mention those weird yellow thingies fired by the Alliance's "dish turrets" (forgot their name:p) on Hoth.

But yeah, I'm sure there'll be the usuals coming in saying "stop crying over little details" and yada yada
Let's hear it for Nostradamus (just look at the post directly below his:D)!
There should be a cheat code that unlocked fan boy 'bots so that I could massacre them all.

Critisism is vital to any title and whoever goes "WTF St0p teh wh1ning teh game r teh 1337:mad:!!!11111" are sabotaging the improvement of the title. The beta testers' job is to critisise the game so that when the gold version comes around, the problems are gone. What part of that is so hard for you fan boys to understand anyway?

Thermal detonators are not used as grenades.
Actually, I believe they might be. Although it's never done in the movies, admittedly:p, they certainly look light enough. Using them large-scale in battle, though, sounds far-fetched to me.

No gun has a used scope (besides sandpeople rifles)
Actually, a lot of guns in Star Wars have scopes. I remember how Galactic Conquest had scopes for all these weapons, even... Pistols ("I shalt pwn u n00bz with my sniper pistol of doom!!1111"). Those were the days:)...

The Sandpeople are not ones for fighting a war, they're secretive nomads.
Exactly.

To which I add: No one would be dumb enough to run around in the streets of Mos Eisley during a full-fledged battle, not even Jawas! And Jabba wouldn't just sit there and watch while a gun fight erupted between rebels and imperials in his throne chamber! Get them the Heck out of there!

AT-AT's are unkillable except by tow-rope.
Not that Rogue Squadron-induced idea again! That's akin to saying that the only way - period - to stop a Tiger tank is to put some dynamite in a sock, dip it in tar, and plaster it onto the tracks - just because that's how it was done in Saving Private Ryan!

Geez, then the only way to destroy Jabba's barge is to fire at it with its own gun, and the only way to kill a rebel Jedi Knight is to chop off his hand - he's totally impervious to flames, gas, grenades, crushing walkers and anything else.

I hope you see the fallacy in your generalizing logic here.

AT-AT walkers should be impervious to lasers and blasters (like tanks should), but proton torpedoes (which are anti-capital ship weapons) and other heavy munitions should easily wipe them out.

I'm sick of playing Rogue Squadron and seeing that snow speeder turn up whenever the AT-AT does. "Ditch your heavy bombers that can penetrate a star destroyer's hull, we need the primitive armed tugs and their über tow cables!!111". Sigh.

Also, Ewoks should be insta-kills or extremely damaging to Storm trooper
Yeah, 'cause it's not like rocks and arrows bounced off of their armour in the movie and the imperials were slaughtering the Ewoks (except from some log/rope kills). But sure, gameplay>Realism - a game where stormies take several high-energy blaster kills to wipe out, but get killed when an arrow snaps in two upon hitting their armour plating would be fun(TM) indeed. Especially for the imperials. Especially if the rebels can trade their useless blasters for the 1337 rocks and bows of teh pwnage:rolleyes:.

The levels should be Endor, Hoth, and the Ep 2/3 planets. Because in the films, that's where the Rebel Armies and Imperial Armies fought on the ground, while the Clone wars were far more active. The space levels are Coruscant, Yarvin, Endor.

Or maybe something new and innovative, seeing that those maps are found in almost every single game?

I'm not saying that you should not include those maps, but what's so wrong with EU, creativity, and fresh ideas?

Redtech
09-30-2005, 06:21 AM
We can also agree that that's the poorest attempt against having it more like Star Wars (note, it's Star Wars, not the films that are being discussed here ;) ) ever presented here. :D Was a good chuckle though. ;) :p I give it a 9 for trying. :thumbsup: So, can you tell me, how that is wrong, considering that it would make SWBF as true to the films as you can get? I think TK'd throw a fit if you couldn't at least counter-argue. That would make it so true to the films that it would be pretty much bang-on, and I fail to see how you could disagree. Hold on, got more to mention:


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Deagle, long post again.

Reffering to thermal detonators:

Actually, I believe they might be. Although it's never done in the movies, admittedly, they certainly look light enough. Using them large-scale in battle, though, sounds far-fetched to me.
The argument is to make the game more like the films, thermals weren't used in the film, so in the apparently "perfect" SWBF, they wouldn't be.


Actually, a lot of guns in Star Wars have scopes. I remember how Galactic Conquest had scopes for all these weapons, even... Pistols ("I shalt pwn u n00bz with my sniper pistol of doom!!1111"). Those were the days...
Games are EU. :P


To which I add: No one would be dumb enough to run around in the streets of Mos Eisley during a full-fledged battle, not even Jawas! And Jabba wouldn't just sit there and watch while a gun fight erupted between rebels and imperials in his throne chamber! Get them the Heck out of there!

Yeah, although I doubt they'd have "urban riot" mode. I mean, too many people would complain it's unrealistic to have a battle in a city with tons of civvies in it (the point being they should have evacuated.) Also, urban combat= non-canon.


Not that Rogue Squadron-induced idea again! That's akin to saying that the only way - period - to stop a Tiger tank is to put some dynamite in a sock, dip it in tar, and plaster it onto the tracks - just because that's how it was done in Saving Private Ryan! Geez, then the only way to destroy Jabba's barge is to fire at it with its own gun, and the only way to kill a rebel Jedi Knight is to chop off his hand - he's totally impervious to flames, gas, grenades, crushing walkers and anything else. I hope you see the fallacy in your generalizing logic here. AT-AT walkers should be impervious to lasers and blasters (like tanks should), but proton torpedoes (which are anti-capital ship weapons) and other heavy munitions should easily wipe them out. I'm sick of playing Rogue Squadron and seeing that snow speeder turn up whenever the AT-AT does. "Ditch your heavy bombers that can penetrate a star destroyer's hull, we need the primitive armed tugs and their über tow cables!!111". Sigh.

Just commenting on the films. In those, well, you know the results, no need to argue the point.


Also, Ewoks should be insta-kills or extremely damaging to Storm trooper. Yeah, 'cause it's not like rocks and arrows bounced off of their armour in the movie and the imperials were slaughtering the Ewoks (except from some log/rope kills). But sure, gameplay>Realism - a game where stormies take several high-energy blaster kills to wipe out, but get killed when an arrow snaps in two upon hitting their armour plating would be fun(TM) indeed. Especially for the imperials. Especially if the rebels can trade their useless blasters for the 1337 rocks and bows of teh pwnage.
Well, the films had the happening. Sorry, but the rebels ultimately win. So maybe in a "realistic" BFront, the rebels do have the major advantage of Endor. Think of it as playing "invasion mode" in Unreal Tournament 2004, where it was almost unwinnable due to the swars of enemies. I guess that's what it's like being a Trooper.


Or maybe something new and innovative, seeing that those maps are found in almost every single game?

I'm not saying that you should not include those maps, but what's so wrong with EU, creativity, and fresh ideas?


And the best way to convince someone to agree with you is to say the exact opposite of what you really meant. :)

I'm going to highlight a good point you made, if you don't mind. What's so wrong with EU, creativity, and fresh ideas? And I think we have an understanding of the minds behing Pandemic and the reasoning that they decideded to diversify Star Wars so much. Now, looking at my previous post, you'd be hard pressed to say that as far as "Movie realism" goes, that'd make Battlefront 2 spot on. But as has already been mentioned at least twice, you don't want the games to be bang on like the films, you want diversity. Deagle, you quoted mainly events that are EU to the films, and so aren't based on the films at all, but are INSPIRED by the films.

As an example, how does anyone know that Lucas didn't want thermals to be nuclear, or not? Who cares? We now have a Star Wars universe of dedicated writers and artists of many types who have written and described in a way that we expect them to be.

In a game like Battlefront, we expect there to be classes, right? But were are they coming from? The EU, of course. The whole game is an exercise in EU. Stormies never fought as soldiers. CloneTroopers never had specialists in the films, but we DEMAND and EXPECT in a class based game that there would be specialists and that StormTroopers are backed up by other military specialists.

We DEMAND and EXPECT the games not just to be of the films ultimately.

Fair enough, little details like mis-naming and mis-skinning are stuff to note, but at the end of the day, there were only 3 classes in the Star Wars films,(pilot, soldier, cannon fodder) so trying to justify 5+ in a game like this is immensly difficult and it's to Pandemic's credit that they attempted it.

Dagobahn Eagle
09-30-2005, 06:36 AM
Well, the films had that happening.
No, it has arrows and rocks bounce off of the storm troopers. Some of them fall over, but none of them are shown dying.

Sorry, but the rebels ultimately win.
Because Chewbacca hijacked an AT-ST and conned the Imperials into opening the shield generator bunker's blast doors. That's got nothing to do with the going of the Ewok-against-Imperials battle.

Games are EU.
Yeah, well, they were like that in the movies, too, weren't they? I didn't mean to use GC as a source.

Redtech
09-30-2005, 07:28 AM
Stop being picky, please. If they've fallen over after being attacked, they're dead till proven otherwise (it's a movie tradition. I mean in War of the Worlds some people might just have been injured and floating down a river with a load of corpses). If Chewie was fighting for the rebels then his actions were the actions of the rebellion, therefore Rebels=win. Battlefront is currently using Jedi-Knight inspired Dark Troopers though, interesting.

Jan Gaarni
09-30-2005, 07:51 AM
So, can you tell me, how that is wrong, considering that it would make SWBF as true to the films as you can get? I think TK'd throw a fit if you couldn't at least counter-argue. That would make it so true to the films that it would be pretty much bang-on, and I fail to see how you could disagree. Hold on, got more to mention:
Are you kidding me?!?

I'm not gonna waste time trying to counter-argue that drivel you presented.

Come on! :D

I got better things to do. :p

Redtech
09-30-2005, 07:53 AM
Well, I win then. :P

I really should play more games and less online-ing. Anyway, you should have read the glowing yellow text near the bottom.

Jan Gaarni
09-30-2005, 07:58 AM
Sure, if it makes you feel better, I'll let you win that one. :)

I'm not really sure what ignited that post of yours though, nor am I sure what you hoped to accomplish with it. ;)

Redtech
09-30-2005, 09:40 AM
It doesn't make me feel better. But heck, if people can waste energy trying to change a game that wont (versus people who would get it no matter what) then I can waste time double guessing everyone.

Anyway, you can guess I'm not a conventional thinker, by any means!

ET Warrior
09-30-2005, 12:18 PM
there is of course one main fallacy in all of your arguments, in that you're arguing for making a game that isn't fun, but strictly adhering to the rules of the movies, which is not at all something that's being argued for.

Yes, make the game fun, make it a video game. If all star wars video games were realistic, Jedi Knight would be easy as cake, since any attack with a lightsaber would instantly kill anything.

We're not saying "Recreate the movie exactly as is you fools" What we're saying is "Stop just making crap up if you're TRYING to recreate the star wars atmosphere" MOST of what they're implementing has already BEEN created in some form or another.

But whatever, you think what you think.

PR-0927
09-30-2005, 04:05 PM
No, you all, the game should be made from real EU and the movies. Of course there are black Rebels, not just Lando! Thermal Detonators are used as grenades too (Class-Es are).

The "small" things are major. I mean, c'mon, Imperial AT-TT Commanders as Imperial Officers (on non-AT-AT maps)...I really hope that they iron this outof the Beta!

TK-8252, with your help, I'll make SWBF II what it should be, once the tools are released.

- Majin Revan

McCusto
09-30-2005, 04:43 PM
Ok, if you guys this game is anything but Star Wars, take a look at at JWG.. . . .err. . .SWG. I don't care if this game isn't exactly like the movies. Who said it had to be?

ParanoidAndroid
09-30-2005, 05:27 PM
I don't think anyone expects the game to be absolutley 100% true to the movies, but that doesn't mean that they can just go make the imperial officers uniform that of a snowtrooper or somthing as equally innaccurate. I think everyone expects a certain degree of similarity to the movies, some parts of SWBF do this well, others not so much.

clonearcman
09-30-2005, 05:51 PM
Well thing were wrong from pretty much from the start, but i didn't thing this much! I would say that i could careless about the terms as long as i get to play but that is just to far. The team that made the stuff acts like they just started watching the movies and then guessing names and looks for different soldiers. My reply is OMG :headbump !

Jan Gaarni
09-30-2005, 08:01 PM
Majin, if you take a better look at General Veers' battle gear (source: ESB, Hoth assault), you'll find a remarkable similarity to the battle gear the officers in SWBFII is wearing.

PR-0927
10-02-2005, 06:47 PM
Basically, here is the statement to summarize my feelings on every and any SW game:

Use your imagination for Star Wars until it contradicts the laws, rules, or other items set for Star Wars in the movies, books, shows, and games.


So, make up stuff until it is incorrect. Then, make it correct. I have no problem with a Rebel LAAT/i (kinda like my ILAAT/i in my maps). It was never shown, and no books, movies, games, or shows said that it couldn't exist. They just need to name it right and make it fun to use.

;)

- Majin Revan

zerted
10-02-2005, 07:55 PM
The developers made the game with requirements set down by the company. The developers are not the people who wrote the books, the story line, or the movies. They can do whatever they want with the game.

TK-8252
10-02-2005, 07:57 PM
They can do whatever they want with the game.

But should they?

What do they gain by not staying true to Star Wars? I mean, it's a Star Wars game, so common sense tells me that a game based on Star Wars should be, well, true to Star Wars.

Micahc
10-02-2005, 11:52 PM
This game is hardly realistic; and its hard to make it as realistic as possible without changing a few things (adding heavey weapons units for example) but the problem here is that the devs aren't even trying. It's as if they figured it would be to hard to add in a remotly realistic element. If there is anything realistic that isn't the blantantly obvious (AT-AT's are big) but even then it isn't up to what it should be, heck AT-AT's should be bigger! There are many things that bug me (Battle droids being healed by bacta), but to put it bluntly this game is a far cry from realistic and from what I've seen ton's of fans are going to be dissapointed

Redtech
10-03-2005, 07:38 AM
Majin Revan. Guess you=win today. It tends to be my feelings on BFront as well. After all, while the films never showed an Imprial Bazzookaman, I'm pretty convinced with the style of the one they have.

-------------------------
Also, Micahc, if the AT-AT was any bigger, it'd be too big to manage. It already has trouble fitting in Hoth, let alone Rhen Var. Okay, you could say, make the maps bigger, but would you want a map so big it takes minutes to cross? BFront can't currently display so many bots that a map that big wouldn't look empty. It'd be like Geonosis. Boring as hell (if you're CIS).

Kurgan
10-03-2005, 08:23 AM
I think this sort of thing happens because, like Star Trek, when you want to make a big "war game" you realize that from the movies, they just don't give you all the "units" you'd normally expect to find in a military simulation.

Now granted, you could say they're forcing 20th/21st century Earth standards of what warfare is onto this fictional sci fi galaxy, but still.

With that in mind, it isn't surprising that so many games just make up loads of stuff to fill in these percieved "gaps."

Now I think the point being made here by others is that they should have used the EU materials that have often tried to fill in those gaps already as the "ready-made solutions." In that case I can only say the developers just chose to use their own imaginations instead, or (gasp) perhaps they just didn't think to hire a few experts on the EU to advise them.

On the other hand, one could say that not every Star Wars fan is so "nerdy" that they know every detail of the EU and would insist on those details being used in the game instead of something completely made up. Perhaps they thought "well since we're going beyond the movies anyway, most fans won't know the difference." Some fans here may find that insulting, I imagine, but that's another theory. We've been arguing that they didn't even get the movie stuff right, so there you go... perhaps they're casual fans, appealing to other casual fans?

Vagabond
10-03-2005, 01:33 PM
I agree with Kurgan - when there are gaps that cannot be filled by existing EU material, then new material should be created for game balancing issues.

However, I do agree with Majin Revan that certain details were bungled, such as Imperial capital ships shooting green, and Rebel capital ships shooting red. There is no reason for those inconsistencies other than lack of quality control.

I can summarize my feelings on this issue by stating that wherever possible, the game should be made to match the movies. When a deviation is needed, new material should be created that matches as closely as possible to what one might expect from the movies.

Lord Vader 89
10-08-2005, 12:21 PM
All right this game is good and all but some of the stuff just ignores the movies completely.

1. First off, why the hell does the Imperial Officer look like that? I was anxious to play as those officers we see in the movies but instead I just get a suped up AT-ST pilot. And what the hell is up with that stupid sonic pistol?

2. Grievous' Manga Guards. I know I don't have to say anything more for the people who have played the beta, but where the hell is his staff?

3. When did the Clones and Droids fight on the Tantive IV, and when did the Galactic Civil War take place on Utapau? And when were Boba Fett and Han on Utapau, and when did Grievous and Yoda fight on the Tantive IV.

4. The starfighters are done wrong. The TIE Fighter and TIE Interceptors do not have torpedoes. I'm not sure about the TIE Interceptor but I am positive that the TIE Fighter doesn't have torpedoes. The TIE Bomber is done very well though surprisingly.

5. The turrets, cannons, and guns of the ships are supposed to be controlled from the bridge. The Bridge that we see in the movies. Instead the control room is right next to the hanger. WTF? This applies to both the Rebel and Imperial Capitol ships. Where did the bridges we saw for the Star Destroyer in the movies and the Mon Calamari Bridge where Ackbar talks from in ROTJ go?

6. Since when did Star Destroyers have side hangers?

7. The half sphere on the bottom of the Star Destroyer does not control life support. It's the reactor.

8. Star Destroyers have 4 E-Web Lasers on each side, not 2.

9. Turrets are not supposed to make that type of sound. They sound like a
friggin chain gun. WTF is up with that?

10. The Sentinel Class Shuttle. Now is it just me or did they mess this ship up horriblely? First off, it's supposed to be bigger than that. Second off the front side does not look like that at all. In fact the whole ship is supposed to look different. It looks more like the Theta-Class Shuttle than the Sentinel Class Shuttle.

11. Why the **** do the Rebels have a Clone Gunship?

12. Even more continuity errors. There are eras on maps where a battle from that era never took place, and heroes that do not belong on certain maps. Palpatine was never in the first Death Star. Mace Windu is supposed to be dead by the time Anakin invades the Jedi Temple, yet he's the hero for the Jedi side. The Clone Wars never took place in the Death Star. Hell the Death Star wasn't even near completion. Luke had a blue lightsaber on Hoth, not a green one. And when did anybody, the CIS, Clones, Rebels, or Imperials, fight on Dagobah? There are way more continuity errors than this in the full product. This is just based of the beta and some screenshots from the full version. It pisses me off when they ignore the movies like this.

13: Lasers. Lasers. Lasers. They messed it up again. Not only is the speed slow like in the first one, the colors are still messed up.

14. What happened to the Star Destroyer's Underside Hanger? You can't even go in there it's blocked off.

Now I'm not saying that they should just stay to the movies and only the movies. They should use the EU too to fill in some gaps. In fact I'm glad they used the EU to do things like give the Imperials a frigate, the Victory Class Frigate. And it doesn't contradict with anything. But they shouldn't do something that contradicts the EU or the movies and create something out of thin air, like Mace being at the Jedi Temple when he was dead by that time in the movie. The game should make you feel as if you are really in the Star Wars Universe, and this game, fun as it may be, fails at that. They should use stuff from the movies and the EU so that we feel that we are in the actual universe. I do hope they at least fix half of these problems up, or that some of them are mistakes like the imperials having the Theta-Class Shuttle.

Darth Andrew
10-08-2005, 12:40 PM
3. When did the Clones and Droids fight on the Tantive IV, and when did the Galactic Civil War take place on Utapau? And when were Boba Fett and Han on Utapau, and when did Grievous and Yoda fight on the Tantive IV.If the sides were limited to certain maps, the game would become more boring like as in Battlefront I. Sometimes, I just wanted to drive an AT-AT on Geonosis. Variety (even if it ruins continuity) is the spice of life.4. The starfighters are done wrong. The TIE Fighter and TIE Interceptors do not have torpedoes. I'm not sure about the TIE Interceptor but I am positive that the TIE Fighter doesn't have torpedoes.On this I agree with you. Couldn't the developers give the Interceptor more powerful lasers instead of missiles to balance it out?
7. The half sphere on the bottom of the Star Destroyer does not control life support. It controls shields along with the two spheres on top of the bridge.Actually, the sphere is where the reactor of the Star Destroyer is. ;)It pisses me off when they ignore the movies like this.If everything was based off the movies, there would be no snipers, heavy weapons, etc. Since when have the Rebels ever had dedicated combat tanks? We never saw those in the movies, and yet they are in to balance the game out and make gameplay more interesting. If the game was based solely on the movies and nothing else, combat would become boring and repetitive.

Jan Gaarni
10-08-2005, 12:57 PM
1. I refer you to General Veers (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/veers3.jpg).

3. That is not the point though. The point is to have fun.

4. The TIE fighters (in general) have been known to be able to be mounted an external rocketlauncher rack below the cockpit.

5. Where did you read that?

6. True

7. Er, no, it's not life support, but no, it's not shielding either. You'll find the main reactor behind that dish.

8. Star Destroyers have no E-Web lasers, period.

9. Yes, there are no chainguns on the star destroyers.

11. Devs got lazy, or it's just a placeholder for the Beta. Who knows.

12. SWBF2 is not supposed to be 100% accurate to Star Wars event-wise, but to be fun and challenging.

MachineCult
10-08-2005, 01:19 PM
This game isn't meant to be totally accurate to the movies, if it was then the game wouldn't be very interesting. It's a Battlefield-like game BASED ON star wars. Republic commando is an FPS based on star wars, thats hardly accurate either but like Battlefront, it isn't meant to be.

McCusto
10-08-2005, 03:29 PM
I agree with you, the turrets are messed up. Since when did the Y-Wing have a Chaingun turret? And I thought the Star Destroyer had green lasers, not orange. And I thought the TIE Bomber had green lasers, too. Not orange. Everything else to me is fine. All they need to fix are the lasers and turrets.


EDIT: Along with since when did the Star Destroyer had side hangers, since when did the Republic Star Destroyers have side hangers?

Jan Gaarni
10-08-2005, 04:07 PM
Victory class frigate?!?

What, isn't a Victory Class Star Destroyer not enough?

They need to introduce yet another type of ship that sounds almost like the VSD?

And shouldn't it be time soon to stop creating more and more ships? It just makes it harder and harder to justify the inclusions of them. :rolleyes:

Anyway, here's what I had to say earlier:
1. I refer you to General Veers (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/veers3.jpg).
3. That is not the point though. The point is to have fun.
4. The TIE fighters (in general) have been known to be able to be mounted an external rocketlauncher rack below the cockpit.
5. Where did you read that?
6. True
7. Correct ... this time. :D
8. Star Destroyers have no E-Web lasers, period.
9. Yes, there are no chainguns on the star destroyers.
11. Devs got lazy, or it's just a placeholder for the Beta. Who knows.
12. SWBF2 is not supposed to be 100% accurate to Star Wars event-wise, but to be fun and challenging.
13. Agreed.
14. Perhaps they think of us as stupid and that we can't possibly manouver into such a large area successfully and land. :D

Atkins
10-08-2005, 05:29 PM
I havnt got time to read all the post above (Nearly finished downloading the Beta) so sorry if i posted something that someone has already posted.

The Heavy Trooper, is similar to commander Bacraa but not the same, if you notice Commander Bacraa has lil blue and red on his armour, where as the heavy trooper dont.

All the big mods for Battlefront II should get together and make one big mod called, "The Movies Mod" basically you lot just fix everything the way it is in the movies, and get laods of downloads.

Lord Vader 89
10-09-2005, 11:58 PM
^ I agree, and theyir first fix should be making the hanger of the Star Destroyer on the bottom. (hint hint)

nightmarenny
10-10-2005, 12:21 AM
I havnt got time to read all the post above (Nearly finished downloading the Beta) so sorry if i posted something that someone has already posted.

The Heavy Trooper, is similar to commander Bacraa but not the same, if you notice Commander Bacraa has lil blue and red on his armour, where as the heavy trooper dont.

All the big mods for Battlefront II should get together and make one big mod called, "The Movies Mod" basically you lot just fix everything the way it is in the movies, and get laods of downloads.
They should have used episode three's rocket trooper. Those guys were cool. I liked their launchers.

To the guy bitching about continuity. I don't like you. Why the hell do you want to prevent me from taking a ride on an AT-AT on Genosis? Or use Boba to take han on Utapua?

Also on your Rebel gunship complaint the rebels are known for grabbing what ever the could for their army. They were desprete and just cause you didn't see one being used doesn't mean they wern't(I bet a few smart generals still used them on the impirial front as well.

Kurgan
10-11-2005, 12:27 AM
One area I'm very glad they didn't go for movie accuracy was in terms of the Battle Droid voices. They used the "lower pitched" deeper voices reminiscent of those in TPM and AOTC, rather than the high pitched, chipmunk-esque voices of ROTS. That part of the movie really annoyed me in places. Wasn't this the big serious PG-13 flick that was supposed to be all edgy and dark? Weren't the battle droids already big enough laughingstocks without taking them down even further?

In any case, this type of inaccuracey is perfectly fine by me. You hear that devs? Don't make the Battle Droid voices like in ROTS, they are great how they are now, thanks again!

Redtech
10-11-2005, 06:24 AM
I so agree. They're called SUPER battle droids. I think Maddox has made a point on why Epsiode 3 shouldn't really be described as a PG anyway. But yeah, the CIS at least have that robotic meaness in the games.

ParanoidAndroid
10-11-2005, 05:31 PM
Yeah, even if battledroids could never be described as "terrifiying" they shouldn't have to sound like cartoon characters on helium.

Blackrider27
10-11-2005, 06:30 PM
well im also mad that they didn't put tameara morrisons clone trooper voice they sound stupid

CidCaldensfey
10-11-2005, 10:43 PM
I think not having everything to be exactly to detail with the movies is okay if it's not possible or extremely hard to do. It's okay though if there are some differences, to me. The creation of new classes to 'fill in the gaps' is required but this should be done in a manner where it'd make sense... Randomly creating weapons and the like which were not actually possible doesn't seem like a good idea...

So I am sort of satisfied with the current classes and all, however, I think more work needs to be done as far as making things a bit accurate as to what they are 'historically' to the Star Wars universe, not making them based off of the movies.

clonearcman
10-11-2005, 10:50 PM
I like what the "super" battle droids are supposed to be designated: The B2. It atleast sounds better than super battle droids.

When I watched ROTS I burst out laughing because of the droids voices. It was kinda funny in the movies but its stupid in a video game.

nightmarenny
10-11-2005, 11:46 PM
I think not having everything to be exactly to detail with the movies is okay if it's not possible or extremely hard to do. It's okay though if there are some differences, to me. The creation of new classes to 'fill in the gaps' is required but this should be done in a manner where it'd make sense... Randomly creating weapons and the like which were not actually possible doesn't seem like a good idea...

So I am sort of satisfied with the current classes and all, however, I think more work needs to be done as far as making things a bit accurate as to what they are 'historically' to the Star Wars universe, not making them based off of the movies.
Are you talking about the lightning gun? That is just rediculus. Just because its sci-fi doesn't mean that crap makes sense.

zerted
10-12-2005, 02:17 AM
Are you talking about the lightning gun? That is just rediculus. Just because its sci-fi doesn't mean that crap makes sense.
:blubeam:
Here is one of <b>many</b> companies which are making laser based plasma weapons:
http://www.ionatron.com/default.aspx?id=7


'Lightning guns' are real and do exist. They are not science fiction.

CidCaldensfey
10-12-2005, 02:25 AM
Theres also some other things being made like a gauss rifle which really does fire projectiles by using magnets. Sort of like some of the new generation rollercoasters coming out.

I think theres even an Ion Cannon which was made to shoot down nuclear warheads, but I've only seen it once. So it might be fake.

As for the lightning gun, I do think that is kind of ridiculous. I don't really know how, ah, useful a gun with short-ranged capabilities would be in a firefight as those presented in the Star Wars universe. The only possible application is for a heavy unit, which is armored, to force the enemy to engage in relative close combat so that the ranged forces, on the same side as those having to be sent in for close-combat, would be able to advance while the enemy concentrates on those up close.

Though I agree, an lightning gun in Star Wars is kind of ridiculous. It's powered by the Dark Side! ;P

Maybe if the jetpack commandos had flamethrowers. That would be a little more practical.
__________________________

Also Zerted, that is a very interesting find. How did you come across this? I know that the United States was working, and showed off mind you, this laser beam weapon last year. It was this giant red dish turret which was mounted on a structure and actually could shoot down artillery shells.

Redtech
10-12-2005, 07:38 AM
Wait a mo, imagine you're in a jetpack at least 200 metres up, or some other cool height. Now, flamethrowers have a notoriously short range, of say, 10 metres at best without using liquid fuel (which is affected by gravity). Now, try burning something at distance.

So why would flamethowers AND a Jetpack be cool? It's a melee weapon to a long range class!

Anyway, I've said it a lot of times, but I don't like "Realism" in games. Real life sucks. That's why we play games. If Star Wars was realistic, then Bush'd be the emperor and the CIS would all have Muslim accents and the Maganguards would be wearing turbans. (I know Hindus wear Turbans, not Muslims, but heck, how many "haters" can tell the difference?)

On a serious note, realism generally sucks because you can go overboard and have weapons shot out of hands, injuries that cripple, the effects of stamina and hormones as well as pain, fear...At the end of the day, I don't want to be controlling a clone trooper who randomly spasses out because I haven't "watered" him recently and spontaneously gets angry seeing teamates killed, gets shot in the foot and so collapses in agony for the rest of the game.

If I wanted to play as someone who was as fragile as I was, I'd go play "real war".

Take Doom3. Haven't played it, but despite "realistic lighting" why does eveyone I know complain that it's only because there is near no light at all? Seems their realism hampered their game design.
---------------------

I prefer the term "convincing". If I'm convinced that "hey that's sensible" then that's all that matters. The author of irregularwebcomic.net has a penchant for disproving Star Wars physics, but in the films, it's convincing that a planet with no arable land could exist (Coruscant) or that a planet could be destroyed by an object smaller than it (Death Star), but NOT realistic.

It's like the weapons, they're not 'realistic' even to Star Wars, but I'm convinced that in their context, they have a place. Even units and classes are designed so that you can think 'well if I had a tie fighter, I want to be able to bomb the shiznit out of rebels as well'.

CidCaldensfey
10-12-2005, 11:13 AM
Wait a mo, imagine you're in a jetpack at least 200 metres up, or some other cool height. Now, flamethrowers have a notoriously short range, of say, 10 metres at best without using liquid fuel (which is affected by gravity). Now, try burning something at distance.

So why would flamethowers AND a Jetpack be cool? It's a melee weapon to a long range class!


Thats the point. It would force close-combat fighting to a class which already has an advantage--the jetpack.

Giving them a weapon with greater range would ruin the whole purpose of a jetpack if you could just stand from someplace far away and shoot. The whole purpose of the jet pack is to offer more mobility, but whats the use if the mobility isn't required due to the weapons being offered to that class?

Besides, haven't you seen the movie 'The Running Man' :P?

Redtech
10-12-2005, 11:58 AM
Yeah, I'm beginning to see your point as a direct counter to the Jetpack's effectiveness anyway. Maybe if they replaced the Jetpack trooper with the Blaze Trooper. That'd be a lot better actually. Because it'd have the heavy armour but slow walking speed, so you'd need to fly mainly to get around, but have a flame thrower.

SORTED.

CidCaldensfey
10-12-2005, 12:15 PM
I just think that an directed-energy weapon is a little impractical. It's possible, yes, but it just seems impractical to already existing weaponary.

But then again, this is just nitpicking.

clonearcman
10-12-2005, 03:07 PM
About how these weapons are realistic. They are real but most of them are not totally perfected or they are so expensive that most companies don't use them. That or else they are hidden and i've never seen em

Redtech
10-12-2005, 03:49 PM
WTMFFF???!

Do you live in the same universe as we do? None of those Star Wars weapons are real.

Give me an M60 over a Stormtrooper POS any day.

CidCaldensfey
10-12-2005, 03:52 PM
About how these weapons are realistic. They are real but most of them are not totally perfected or they are so expensive that most companies don't use them. That or else they are hidden and i've never seen em

Right. Thats sort of what I'm trying to get at. The technology is there but already existing technology is better than what is being proposed. So using something which is new, but not as efficient, is just another form of downgrading one's self.

But as far as I'm concerned, about the topic of the electric gun, it's very much possible and perhaps in the Star Wars Universe it's better than a flamethrower. But theres just some other issues with it (IE: Not as visible as a flamethrower, could be mistaken for force lightning, haven't ever seen a lightning gun in any of the films or games.)

The closest I've seen as far as 'lightning guns' in Star Wars was that one time where R2-D2 shot a bolt out of it's little, uh, stickthingy..


That sounded wrong ;_;

MachineCult
10-12-2005, 05:52 PM
WTMFFF???!

Do you live in the same universe as we do? None of those Star Wars weapons are real.

Give me an M60 over a Stormtrooper POS any day.

Someone should make a vietnam war era weapon mod...

CidCaldensfey
10-12-2005, 06:07 PM
Someone should make a vietnam war era weapon mod...

As long as the LAW and M60 aren't available for the same class.

nightmarenny
10-12-2005, 06:55 PM
:blubeam:
Here is one of <b>many</b> companies which are making laser based plasma weapons:
http://www.ionatron.com/default.aspx?id=7


'Lightning guns' are real and do exist. They are not science fiction.
Eh they are still stupid.

Theres also some other things being made like a gauss rifle which really does fire projectiles by using magnets. Sort of like some of the new generation rollercoasters coming out.

I think theres even an Ion Cannon which was made to shoot down nuclear warheads, but I've only seen it once. So it might be fake.

As for the lightning gun, I do think that is kind of ridiculous. I don't really know how, ah, useful a gun with short-ranged capabilities would be in a firefight as those presented in the Star Wars universe. The only possible application is for a heavy unit, which is armored, to force the enemy to engage in relative close combat so that the ranged forces, on the same side as those having to be sent in for close-combat, would be able to advance while the enemy concentrates on those up close.

Though I agree, an lightning gun in Star Wars is kind of ridiculous. It's powered by the Dark Side! ;P

Maybe if the jetpack commandos had flamethrowers. That would be a little more practical.
__________________________

Also Zerted, that is a very interesting find. How did you come across this? I know that the United States was working, and showed off mind you, this laser beam weapon last year. It was this giant red dish turret which was mounted on a structure and actually could shoot down artillery shells.
Guess rifles as well as railguns are very interesting. I'm not sure but I have seen a weapon which would track a nuke or other long range weapons and use a photon laser to cause it to explode which might be what you are talking about.

I was not talking about the Jet troopers emp gun. That I can deal with. I mean the pilots "lightning gun.

zerted
10-12-2005, 08:29 PM
Current 'Lightening guns' exist, but are not hand held or moblie. Until then, you will not hear much about them. The Jet Trooper's emp gun is also possible to be made with current day techonology:

1) You need some type of rocket lanucher.
2) It fires missles that have a EMP generator in its head (instead of explosives).
3) Using some type of radar/GPS/IR/Heat sensors, right before it impacts its target, the EMP generator goes on, thus causing an EMP to be created. Any non-shielded electronics will be fired.

The reason such a weapon does not exist: It would be much cheaper to just shield all electronics from EMP, then it would to design such a weapon, only to have the enemy shield all its electronics when word gets out the weapon is being developed.

Current laser weapons are laser mounted on planes to burn missiles' guidence systems so they crash without reaching their target, or heating up the missile's fuel till it explodes before reaching its target. There are ground based laser weapons to blind other enemies, but such weapons are banned by the Genova Convention.

CidCaldensfey
10-12-2005, 09:12 PM
Either way though, the lightning gun doesn't seem like a practical weapon, but rather just a 'wow its cool'.

I suppose thats a good enough reason to have it...I don't know. It just seems kind of silly to be running around, jetpacking all over the place..only to shoot tendrils of electricity at people.

zerted
10-12-2005, 10:16 PM
Yea, I'm not saying that the weapons in SWBF2 are good/bad/make sense for the game, I'm just saying that some of them do exist (to a degree) and that others are possible (but not probable) to make.

Kurgan
10-13-2005, 01:01 AM
Sort of like the hand-held chainguns in so many other FPS games?

I think what people are trying to say here is that some of these weapons don't "feel like they belong in Star Wars" for whatever reasons... whether you agree or not, in any case.

CidCaldensfey
10-13-2005, 01:36 AM
Yeah, that makes sense. Theres always room for change though.

As far as Star Wars goes though, I really don't know if at any point in the series there really is a gun like that. The only electro-weapon I remember is R2D2s little stun rod thing, as I said earlier.

The electrogun wouldn't really bother me if it just were a little bit visable. In a fire fight, with everything being so fast, it's just hard to see it.

Redtech
10-13-2005, 05:25 AM
Yeah, I can agree on that. But then again, don't use pilot much in SWBF1 except for piloting!

TK-8252
10-13-2005, 08:00 AM
As far as Star Wars goes though, I really don't know if at any point in the series there really is a gun like that. The only electro-weapon I remember is R2D2s little stun rod thing, as I said earlier.

That was actually an arc welder (in Star Wars they're not like real-life arc welders). I don't think it would be very effective running around with an arc welder shocking people. :p

zerted
10-13-2005, 05:37 PM
Some people run around with nail guns...

Kurgan
10-13-2005, 07:31 PM
Only if they are battery powered...

Speaking of which, that reminds me of that time this guy at work was firing his nail gun at people. What a nut.

CidCaldensfey
10-13-2005, 09:11 PM
Only if they are battery powered...

Speaking of which, that reminds me of that time this guy at work was firing his nail gun at people. What a nut.

Story time!

Can you tell us what happened? The full story, if possible. I don't think talking about here though would be right. Maybe in a new thread.



As for the current realism debate, yeah. I didn't know what weapon R2D2 had but thanks for clarifying with me what it was.

nightmarenny
10-13-2005, 10:59 PM
Well considering screen shots of the unit select show that they now have some sort of shot gun everything should be ok. Assuming ofcourse that the Dark trooper Lightning gun doesn't suck.

clonearcman
10-14-2005, 11:48 AM
Isn't it kind of funny. In the Star Wars Universe, technology is obviously more advanced. You would think that if we (being more primitive) could shield electronics from EMP charges; you would think that the Confederate Systems would simply put the protective devices on the droids to make the clones' EMP grenades and launchers useless.

Darth Alec
10-14-2005, 12:36 PM
How would the movies end up then? Huh? Still the Viceroy is to cheap to do that, so they lost the war.

clonearcman
10-14-2005, 02:03 PM
The movies wouldn't change at all. You don't see any EMPs. And believe me. The Viceroy would do it even tho hes a pathetic cowering little weakling. Hes not THAT stupid.

Kurgan
10-14-2005, 06:23 PM
This is just more proof that Palpatine is controlling everything. He simply made Dooku promise to keep them from using that technology.

I can just picture the scene now:

Seperatist official: If we simply EMP shielded our forces, our chances of victory would be greatly increased, don't you...

Dooku (waves hands): No, there are too many of them.

Seperatist official: Excuse me?

Dooku (waves hands again): There are too many.

Seperatist official: Why is it that every time I get a good idea or suggest a sensible strategy, you start mumbling about there being too many. Huh???

Dooku (waves hands again): Far too many.

Seperatist official: What, just because you were some kinda Jedi, you think you can convince me by waving your hands around like that?

Dooku (waves hands once more): Sorry, too many.

Seperatist official: That's it, you're fired! Guar---

Dooku: I don't like the way this is going (quickly zaps the guy to death with lightning)

Dooku: Whew, that was close. *bzzzt* (comlink) please send up the next highest ranking official, I have to discuss something with him...

vej-manden
10-15-2005, 11:40 AM
SWBF 2 would still be a crappy game if they made it "realistic".

boinga1
10-15-2005, 04:20 PM
And yet, it still is! ;)

zerted
10-15-2005, 07:13 PM
SWBF 2 would still be a crappy game if they made it "realistic".
Maybe because life isn't a computer game.

TK-8252
10-15-2005, 07:34 PM
Maybe because life isn't a computer game.

Lies, all lies...

zerted
10-15-2005, 07:40 PM
Lies, all lies...
lol. Thats why I said "<i>Maybe</i>"...

vej-manden
10-18-2005, 05:53 AM
Crosshairs also shouldn't be in the game. I didn't see any crosshairs floating in front of the troopers in the movies ;P

MachineCult
10-18-2005, 06:10 AM
Alright, while we're at it, lets get rid of the weapon display, and the Radar, and you know what, there wasn't a ticket count over troopers heads, we can GUESS whether we're winning or losing.

010_sWitch_010
10-18-2005, 06:12 AM
Crosshairs also shouldn't be in the game. I didn't see any crosshairs floating in front of the troopers in the movies ;P

that would look strange, make it hard to play and be quite amusing all at the same time.

Dagobahn Eagle
10-18-2005, 08:07 AM
Alright, while we're at it, lets get rid of the weapon display, and the Radar, and you know what, there wasn't a ticket count over troopers heads, we can GUESS whether we're winning or losing.
Way to not understand sarcasm. Congratulations:D.

SWBF 2 would still be a crappy game if they made it "realistic".

I dislike black-and-white thinking so drop it, OK? Please?
Tonnes of realistic features make a game more fun, just like there are tonnes of unrealistic features that could make it less fun and more complicated. Duh.

And yet, it still is!
Crappy or realistic? If your answer is 'realistic', you're way off. If you mean 'realistic' as in 'accurate', you're even farther off.

Seeing this thread has gone so horribly off-topic, I must digress. See you later.

Redtech
10-18-2005, 08:08 AM
Well, just to drag it on, there shouldn't be a health bar either. And remember, since most troopers are wearing eyepieces, their field of view should be rubbish (E.g Republic commando). And also, don't forget the classic "shoot the gun out of their hands/shoot their leg grenades" scenario.

Oh, and every attack is an insta kill. I doubt many troopers would survive a punch from a SBD.

Come to think of it...I want melee attacks!

zerted
10-18-2005, 11:39 AM
Any shooter game would be crappy if realistic. Go join a war if you want realistic fighting.

MachineCult
10-18-2005, 03:17 PM
Way to not understand sarcasm. Congratulations:D.

lol, i just like laying into people.

TK-8252
10-18-2005, 04:15 PM
Any shooter game would be crappy if realistic. Go join a war if you want realistic fighting.

Not only am I not old enough to join the army, but I really don't want to die, nor do I want to kill people. Considering I've never even held a gun I don't think I'd be very good with one either.

What do you tell all these people who play Grand Theft Auto? "Go join a street gang?" What do you tell all these people who play Madden? "Go join the NFL?"

Pho3nix
10-18-2005, 04:20 PM
Pfft. I'm not even surprised. Lucasarts haven't done any good games since JK-2.

clonearcman
10-18-2005, 08:16 PM
You guys should listen to yourselves. Listen its STAR WARS. Not saying everything in the game is impossible but I guarantee you something in there is NOT POSSIBLE. Let alone stupid in the real world. I mean comon, if youre a guy in the forest in a war the LAST thing you would do is dress up in a huge white suit (clone or storm trooper suits for you nutcases). Also, when you guys say it shouldn't have "health bars and cross hairs"; its like you guys have never played another game. Almost everygame I've played you have a health bar or something that tells you when your're about to die. Come to think of it it HAS been every game I've played. And come on lay off on the "join a real war" spazness. It almost sounds like a political fight. Not the place for it.

zerted
10-19-2005, 02:40 AM
Any shooter game would be crappy if realistic. Go join a war if you want realistic fighting.
I'm saying many games won't be fun if completely realistic. How fun would it be if shots were realistic? You get shot in the leg, you cannot move, but you can still fight a little bit. You get shot in the arm, you drop your weapon and the only thing you can do is walk around, kick other units, and get killed. You get shot anywhere else and you die. There is no need for the health bar.

There is no respawn. If you die, you never come back. You have to reinstall the game to play another round. While some realistic things make a game better, such as being able to shoot through glass and units that carrying heavier weapons move slower, but after a point the more realistic a game gets, the worst it becomes.

Thats what I think. If this was any other thread, I would say lets stop the realism fighting, but since the thread is named ..."realism" debate... bring it on.

I didn't mean to make a political statement, I was thinking a completely realistic game would feel the same as fighting in a war and not many people would like it.

I'm just talking about 1st or 3rd person shooters. I don't consider Grand Theft Auto to be one of them. Everyone, go join a street gang, just make sure it is a friendly, law abiding street gang. Maybe it goes out and picks up the trash on the street. Its motto could be "No one gets hurt when we come to town".

clonearcman
10-19-2005, 05:55 PM
I think this thread has lost its point. arcman out

Windu Chi
10-20-2005, 12:34 PM
I'm saying many games won't be fun if completely realistic. How fun would it be if shots were realistic? You get shot in the leg, you cannot move, but you can still fight a little bit. You get shot in the arm, you drop your weapon and the only thing you can do is walk around, kick other units, and get killed. You get shot anywhere else and you die. There is no need for the health bar.

There is no respawn. If you die, you never come back. You have to reinstall the game to play another round. While some realistic things make a game better, such as being able to shoot through glass and units that carrying heavier weapons move slower, but after a point the more realistic a game gets, the worst it becomes.

Thats what I think. If this was any other thread, I would say lets stop the realism fighting, but since the thread is named ..."realism" debate... bring it on.

I didn't mean to make a political statement, I was thinking a completely realistic game would feel the same as fighting in a war and not many people would like it.

I'm just talking about 1st or 3rd person shooters. I don't consider Grand Theft Auto to be one of them. Everyone, go join a street gang, just make sure it is a friendly, law abiding street gang. Maybe it goes out and picks up the trash on the street. Its motto could be "No one gets hurt when we come to town".
I totaly disaree with you realism is the future of great games if you want to play stupid games that is unrealisted go play kids games.Besiides the Force may be a realisted power, if you study physics some unknown energy that is called Dark Energy it may be the living Force. So when I mean realisted I don't discount that things in Star Wars can happen, because I understand the physics and the infinite possibilities.

MachineCult
10-20-2005, 02:50 PM
You mean realistic within the realisms of the Star Wars Universe.

TK-8252
10-20-2005, 04:06 PM
Besiides the Force may be a realisted power, if you study physics some unknown energy that is called Dark Energy it may be the living Force. So when I mean realisted I don't discount that things in Star Wars can happen, because I understand the physics and the infinite possibilities.

...I think that's where your argument just lost all credibility. :p

The Force is real? XD

Windu Chi
10-20-2005, 04:37 PM
...I think that's where your argument just lost all credibility. :p

The Force is real? XD So you calling me a religious nut; I just speaking of pure physics pit up a book on Dark Energy. Also if you got a scientific mind you will understand my reasoning.

Remember nothing impossible ! :lsduel:

TK-8252
10-20-2005, 04:40 PM
Unless George Lucas is God, the Force doesn't exist.

Windu Chi
10-20-2005, 04:56 PM
Unless George Lucas is God, the Force doesn't exist.
Then you must not be a true STAR WARS fan.

Micahc
10-20-2005, 05:52 PM
Then you must not be a true STAR WARS fan.

Guess most of the people here arn't "true Star Wars" fans then. And if you don't want a health bar wait for the King Kong game to come out.

Arc-453
10-20-2005, 07:11 PM
*flaming removed* ~ET

nightmarenny
10-20-2005, 07:36 PM
Well, just to drag it on, there shouldn't be a health bar either. And remember, since most troopers are wearing eyepieces, their field of view should be rubbish (E.g Republic commando). And also, don't forget the classic "shoot the gun out of their hands/shoot their leg grenades" scenario.

Oh, and every attack is an insta kill. I doubt many troopers would survive a punch from a SBD.

Come to think of it...I want melee attacks!
Acturaly come year 2020 all american soldiers will have a display that gives basic medical data. By the time we make hand held weapons-grade laser we probably will have a health bar. Also first person veiw is already crap compared to normal human vision.

MachineCult
10-20-2005, 08:33 PM
Then you must not be a true STAR WARS fan.

So you're saying that "true STAR WARS fans" are lunatics? Who believe the force exists.

Windu Chi
10-20-2005, 09:13 PM
So you're saying that "true STAR WARS fans" are lunatics? Who believe the force exists. No I not saying that ! I saying that open up your mind and believe in infinite possibilities.

TK-8252
10-20-2005, 09:24 PM
No I not saying that ! I saying that open up your mind and believe in infinite possibilities.

Okay, so I'll believe that it rains ice cream and dogs are made of whipped cream. Let's made a sundae.

Windu Chi
10-20-2005, 09:43 PM
Okay, so I'll believe that it rains ice cream and dogs are made of whipped cream. Let's made a sundae. You trying to be funny hah hah. I just consider infinite possibilities ! If you don't it's okay!

KTR
10-20-2005, 10:28 PM
can you please define a "true STAR WARS fan"?

Is it one of those people that carry a lightsaber to work, wears star wars underware, painted his/her car to the paint job of the xwing, made a rd-d2 suit for the dog, has a crush over Leia, prays to The Force, try to lift the fridge with the force and gets a hernia, decorated their home like the interior of the death star, reads and studies every thing of star wars, spams emails to George Lucas asking to answer some question (i think the G-man is sick and tired of his deticated fans), reads a book called "dark energy", dresses like a ewok on halloween, trying to build his/her own pod racer, ..... (some one can continue).....

Windu Chi
10-20-2005, 10:39 PM
can you please define a "true STAR WARS fan"?

Is it one of those people that carry a lightsaber to work, wears star wars underware, painted his/her car to the paint job of the xwing, made a rd-d2 suit for the dog, has a crush over Leia, prays to The Force, try to lift the fridge with the force and gets a hernia, decorated their home like the interior of the death star, reads and studies every thing of star wars, spams emails to George Lucas asking to answer some question (i think the G-man is sick and tired of his deticated fans), reads a book called "dark energy", dresses like a ewok on halloween, trying to build his/her own pod racer, ..... (some one can continue)..... Well I don't know about all that but I wish the force was real and I really want to be a Jedi Knight. So I can escape this dull life and time period.

KTR
10-20-2005, 10:44 PM
How old are you? you must be a high schooler, just studing away and being bored most of the time. Well, sooner or later you will have freedom and life wont be dull. People who believe in the force are crazy. its fake, and its made out of someones head (who must be rich now).

Windu Chi
10-20-2005, 11:01 PM
How old are you? you must be a high schooler, just studing away and being bored most of the time. Well, sooner or later you will have freedom and life wont be dull. People who believe in the force are crazy. its fake, and its made out of someones head (who must be rich now). Hi I am 20 years old and i am not crazy. I just dream of a better life and time were space travel is possible and just not for "CRAZY PEOPLE" hopes. What are your dreams to get rich and die or live forever ?

zerted
10-21-2005, 05:30 AM
...Besiides the Force may be a realisted power, if you study physics some unknown energy that is called Dark Energy it may be the living Force. So when I mean realisted I don't discount that things in Star Wars can happen, because I understand the physics and the infinite possibilities.

I don't remember talking about force powers. But lets talk about it. Currently Dark Energy is still completely scientific speculation, gravity (though we don't know how its created) exists, and magnetic fields exist. I think if we develop something like forces powers, it would be from magnetic fields or gravity.

Magnetic fields are already being used like force powers. Some mass transportation systems use magnetic fields to speed up, slow down, and stay on the track. Other current uses of magnetic fields which emulate force powers include 'holding' electrons. Magnetic fields are used to suspend, accerlate, or decelerate electrons. While both of the examples are large scale, some day it may be possible to carry such a system. The only problem using it as a force power, is that magnetic fields do not affect everything.

While gravity is one of the weekest forces (Pick up your mouse. You've just defeated gravity! It take a mass as massize as Earth to create that gravity. ) it affects almost everything (it does bend light) and can be very strong. If some day we learn how gravity is created (we know mass gives off gravitional fields, but we don't know how those fields are created) we could make gravity devices. They would be able to 'move' ojects by changing the gravational forces in the area around the ojects.

I don't really know much about the properities of Dary Energy.

We already have space travel :emodanc:, but I know what you mean :vsd:. I hope I can live to see that day.

VxE!y xeR+ yeZ [ ( (y+1 = |-x-|) /\ (y-1 = |_x_|) ) \/ (y = x) ]

Darth_Terros
10-21-2005, 07:57 AM
So I can escape this dull life and time period.

Suicide?

Ok but seriously your the nuttiest person i've seen on any forum i post on *i've posted on alot*

I dont know where you get your psuedo-science Dark energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy) is like the force

Anywa back on subject

Realism in battle front - although i think it would be cool to have a more realistic game *where even ewoks can take down stormtroopers* it just wouldnt be as fun remember this is a game produced for the mass market not just starwars fans it needs to appeal to everyone

maybe one day we'll get our Storm trooper military simulator but for now we'll have to just do with this

Jurian
10-21-2005, 10:27 AM
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

That's all I got to say on this.

MachineCult
10-21-2005, 11:47 AM
Suicide?

Ok but seriously your the nuttiest person i've seen on any forum i post on *i've posted on alot*



He's the nuttiest person i've ever seen as well.

No way you're 20 windu6, if you are you're retarded or from a non-english speaking country. (Judging from your posts i'd say both.)

KTR
10-21-2005, 12:20 PM
Commerical space travel is comming, but a very long time from now. Spaceship One is the first, but only the rich will able to afford to fly it first. We will all be dead and then some to see a speck of star wars come true. Things like "lightspeed" and such are all bogus right now, no one knows where to start.

20! you are in college, you are free. Man, college is so fun (i am a college student myself) so much freedom, you can skip most of you classes, without trouble, you can enjoy with out hassels (never mind...there is always money, unless you are rich). It so friken funny to see that some one whats to be a jedi and use the force. ***HAHAHAHA*** Only crazy lunatics think like that. Heck, no one can make a lightsaber in the start. No lightsaber = no jedi. LOL!

http://www.thespacereview.com/archive/17a.jpg

Darth_Terros
10-21-2005, 12:40 PM
No lightsaber = no jedi


Ahh but the jedi didnt have them to start with ;)

But yeah for a start we dont have such things as midiclorians so thats your first hurdle to being a jedi

ET Warrior
10-21-2005, 12:59 PM
This thread has gone on long enough, we've gotten so far off, and all we're going to get out of this is a flame fest. Those of you who have been flaming probably know who you are, and if you do it again, more will happen than a simple thread closing.