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Revan Skywalker
10-22-2005, 10:31 AM
Do you think that KOTOR is the best game of all tiime? I do!

The Doctor
10-22-2005, 10:44 AM
Yes, I do, but this thread will most likely be closed.

Venom750
10-22-2005, 07:25 PM
Has this thread been closed are we still here and oh yes KOTOR is one of the best games of all time

zedgar vabin
08-08-2007, 03:08 PM
I totally agree that KOTOR is the best game of all time.The visuals,the story,the characters...and the voice acting!I've played through it so many times and I still miss it when I'm not playing it.

Titanius Anglesmith
08-08-2007, 03:30 PM
Nope, but it's sequel is. ;)

PoiuyWired
08-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Well, people who hates this game would not be frequenting this forum.

Kas'!m
08-09-2007, 06:28 PM
According to X-Play, it is the second best game ever.

spark91
08-09-2007, 09:39 PM
I consider it a work of genius and the best game of all time manily because of it's great story

Allronix
08-10-2007, 02:31 AM
It's certainly on my top 5 - probably position 1 or 2. Right behind it is the fan-done remake of King's Quest 2.

adamqd
08-10-2007, 04:05 AM
Top 5....

1: KOTOR
2:JK:JO
3:TSL
4:BF
5:JK:JA

swfan28
08-10-2007, 06:57 AM
I think the best game of all time is Starcontrol 2. KotOR is definitely in top 5 though and I do think that the story of KotOR is the best story ever implemented in a video game.

MacTavish
08-10-2007, 12:04 PM
According to X-Play, it is the second best game ever.

What is the first?

spark91
08-10-2007, 12:17 PM
What is the first?
the first was resident evil 4

Obi-Wan Baloney
08-11-2007, 09:38 AM
According to X-Play, it is the second best game ever.
Yeah, I watched that episode too. Great that they gave some credit to KOTOR. Oh, and KOTOR is definitely the best game ever. I keep getting new games and after I finish them I keep going back to the KOTOR's. KOTOR 2 is my second favorite game ever.

Ctrl Alt Del
08-12-2007, 07:39 PM
Best game? Hardly. It's one of the bests all right, but there are just too many good games around and Kotor isn't flawlessly.

MacTavish
08-13-2007, 10:38 AM
I think that when TSLRP is done, Kotor 2 will be the best game ever.

Emperor Devon
08-13-2007, 06:12 PM
I know my views are in the minority, but I've always thought TSL was a better game than KotOR Team Gizka or no. The characters simply have a lot more depth to them and it isn't the same cookie-cutter "guy kills the evil overlord, blows up the space station, gets the girl and saves the galaxy" story that KotOR was obviously based off of. While that's not to say KotOR is completely based off that kind of plot or is a bad game (quite the contrary!) it simply isn't of the same caliber as TSL is.

Allronix
08-13-2007, 08:35 PM
Y'see, and I have found K2 mostly unplayable. K1? I've played through it dozens of times.

1) All the damn bugs that crash my computer while playing it. We're talking grinding noise, frozen screen, and total reboot needed. It happens with annoying frequency. If it's not those, then it's dialogue that dead-ends, unsolvable quests, influence scripts that won't fire, and Revan's gender changing 3 times in one conversation. I went from trying to immerse myself to swearing at some crash or another.

2) On K1, I wanted to spend time with the characters. I got caught up in their struggles, and often found myself going "I'm not doing that Dark Side act because...(Carth's got enough trust issues/Juhani looks up to me/Mission's seen enough bad examples/I don't want to give Zaalbar reason to question that lifedebt)."

K2? Yikes. Most of the cast I wanted to run like hell from. They were designed to make you feel uncomfortable, apparently. Kreia was wonderfully wicked and complex. She was the only thing that held that goddamn mess of a plot together. She was designed to be utterly unlikeable, and most of the rest of the cast was equally bad. Atton was so malliable...he may have been showing a blue alignment on my first game, but he flips like a pazaak card. Go-to was useless on top of being unlikable. Visas was just so...broken. Ground to glass already. When my DSM sacrificed her on the Ravager's bridge, it smacked of a mercy killing. Worse was how they snapped and bickered with each other, not over ideology and what they believed in - but just to earn more favor with your character. Even more eye-rolling was that you influenced out, cross-classed them, then...nothing.

The K1 crew were...Kirk's Enterprise, the Yavin Heroes...K2's crew was Blake's 7 with Lightsabers. I didn't want to stay there. Of course, to some, that's part of the charm...

3) The plot was a frelling mess. What's the point? I have my theories on the "wound in the Force" bit, but still know next to nada about it. What was the point of gathering all the Jedi Masters? In fact, what was the point of doing much of anything? On K1, you were either going to be a redeemed hero or the Dark Lord reborn. On K2? Telos still gets rebuilt, Nar Shadaa is still a pit. Onderon is the only place where you make an actual choice, but you either get a weak queen who can't stand without a pet Jedi or a slimebag who thinks he's going to double-cross the Sith.

Added to the bugs in the game, I felt like it all was an exercise in futility and wondered what the damn point was. I guess, though, that it just means I did not grasp the "wonderous subtlety" and "complexity" of the game.

Master Zionosis
08-13-2007, 09:59 PM
I know my views are in the minority, but I've always thought TSL was a better game than KotOR Team Gizka or no. The characters simply have a lot more depth to them and it isn't the same cookie-cutter "guy kills the evil overlord, blows up the space station, gets the girl and saves the galaxy" story that KotOR was obviously based off of. While that's not to say KotOR is completely based off that kind of plot or is a bad game (quite the contrary!) it simply isn't of the same caliber as TSL is.

I completely agree, I prefer TSL because of it's more expansive storyline, whenever I play KotOR I, it just feels a bit.... bland, even though it is a BIG game anyway.

Emperor Devon
08-13-2007, 11:15 PM
All the damn bugs that crash my computer while playing it. We're talking grinding noise, frozen screen, and total reboot needed.

That's very odd. I've had next to no bugs with TSL for some inexplicable reason. (I guess it's made it easier to immerse myself in the story.)

She was the only thing that held that goddamn mess of a plot together. She was designed to be utterly unlikeable, and most of the rest of the cast was equally bad.

Lies! All lies!! :p

Go-to was useless on top of being unlikable.

It's actually quite easy to make him a useful party member if you pack him full of the overpowered weapons and fill those up with the overpowered upgrades found/make-able throughout the game.

As a character I thought Goto was fascinating - he's a self-aware droid of incredible intelligence that tries to protect the Republic through the most awful of means, trying in some perverse manner to carry out his programming. He's really a lot like Revan, so very Machiavellian and accepting of how the ends justify the means.

Visas was just so...broken. Ground to glass already.

Exactly! She's a totally broken ruin of a girl whose only joy is her own death and only hatred her own life. How freakin' cool is that? :p

3) The plot was a frelling mess. What's the point?

Originally you were forced onto Telos and Peragus without really having much choice in the matter, and trying to connect back to the Force along the way. After Telos for DSers who believed Kreia's lies that the Masters cut her off from the Force it's a quest for revenge. With LSers they want to restore that connection/find out from the Masters what's going on/gather the Masters to fight against the new Sith threat. After they're all dead whether by Kreia or the PC's hands it's another quest for revenge/quest to stop the Sith from killing you for DSers, and attempt to stop Kreia for LSers.

I have my theories on the "wound in the Force" bit, but still know next to nada about it.

?

What was the point of gathering all the Jedi Masters?

Stopping the Sith and getting answers about your past.

In fact, what was the point of doing much of anything?

Stopping the Sith and rebuilding the Jedi, or getting your revenge by killing them all.

Added to the bugs in the game, I felt like it all was an exercise in futility and wondered what the damn point was. I guess, though, that it just means I did not grasp the "wonderous subtlety" and "complexity" of the game.

TSL is a very dark game not intended to be epic or to have party members you're supposed to grow to love. I suppose it's a matter of taste with that established, but I was enraptured by the new aspects of the Force they delved into and Kreia's personality.

Allronix
08-14-2007, 12:57 AM
Well, you gather all these masters against the Sith, on LS, and what happens? They try to kill you and end up dead. DS, they still end up dead. Their "answers" indicated they didn't know what was going on with the Exile, either, and they don't help you against the Sith.

For that matter, splitting the antagonism 4 ways weakened them all. It left the plot disjointed, and I was often getting a headache trying to figure out exactly what was going on or why jumping through this particular hoop was necessary. The bugged up quests definitely hurt, as I found myself unable to trigger major plot points.

For the record, the only way I play TSL anymore is as a Darksider. At least then, the obnoxious characters submitting themselves body and soul to you has a satisfyingly creepy vibe, like a Charles Manson Family in space.

Emperor Devon
08-14-2007, 06:02 AM
Their "answers" indicated they didn't know what was going on with the Exile, either, and they don't help you against the Sith.

True, but not visibly so before the meeting at the enclave. Kreia lied to the PC that the Masters stripped her connection to Force, and with how they were on the run from the Sith it looked like they had some knowledge of the new threat. With those misconceptions it would've looked as if there were everything to gain by speaking to them and nothing to lose from it. Those misconceptions did turn out to be just that, but they were never meant to do anything beyond advance Kreia's goals. (Which they did.)

For that matter, splitting the antagonism 4 ways weakened them all. It left the plot disjointed, and I was often getting a headache trying to figure out exactly what was going on or why jumping through this particular hoop was necessary.

At first glance it was split four ways, but all of the antagonists were manipulated into being Kreia's pawns or were removed by her pawns in the end. She is the central antagonist, even if she only gets to order around lots of minions by the game's last planet.

Arcesious
08-14-2007, 08:19 AM
KI vrs K2 huh...?

they'll both good.

K2 was bigger, more expansive. It actually let you become a beinmg of ultimate power.
K1 was limited, but the plotline was better than K2.
K2 had a lesson to it if yu will- for all of us peoplew who are bosessd with starwars- there was a lesson learned of starwars itsefl at the very end of K2.

I myself await K3, and iw ant to be almighty Revan as my main character- and i simply want to mow down entire armies with raw, unlimited power.

Ctrl Alt Del
08-14-2007, 09:02 PM
3) The plot was a frelling mess. What's the point? I have my theories on the "wound in the Force" bit, but still know next to nada about it. What was the point of gathering all the Jedi Masters? In fact, what was the point of doing much of anything? On K1, you were either going to be a redeemed hero or the Dark Lord reborn. On K2? Telos still gets rebuilt, Nar Shadaa is still a pit. Onderon is the only place where you make an actual choice, but you either get a weak queen who can't stand without a pet Jedi or a slimebag who thinks he's going to double-cross the Sith.

Oh yeah. That's some points less for K2. How good is to build a intricate storyline, with many mysteries to discover a solution from, and then, it's all explained by the Force. That's frustrating.

Rev7
11-19-2007, 02:38 AM
They are both great games, but I would have to say that OVERALL KotOR 2 is the better game. Don't get me wrong, KotOR 1 was a wonderful game, but in a sense it had a solution. KotOR 2 kinda left you hanging wanting more. Not to mention that it was a bit more expansive, a tad more customizable (as in the character) , and had some better characters (IMO).

In rating I would give KotOR 1 a 8.5/10 and KotOR 2 a 8.75/10.

Jeff
11-19-2007, 03:21 AM
KotOR is my favorite game of all-time I'd say. I wouldn't put TSL on my top 5 list probably but its up there somewhere. Some things in TSL I liked better than in K1 but overall K1 is my fav.

Ctrl Alt Del
11-19-2007, 05:20 AM
KI vrs K2 huh...?
K2 was bigger, more expansive. It actually let you become a beinmg of ultimate power.


Hmm, what do you mean? K2 is smaller than K1.

Totenkopf
11-19-2007, 06:23 PM
Probably means that K2 seems geographically smaller than K1. Took me much longer to get thru KOTOR than TSL on the first playthrough. Also, at the end of the game, you either become this superpowerful sithlord that will now sweep all before you or a uber jedi that stops that nonsense in it's tracks. TSL is much more ambiguous and ambivalent when you finish. Probably more in keeping with it's somewhat moodier storyline (though anticlimactic nonetheless). I'd say I like KOTOR better, but even w/it's apparent flaws TSL is a pretty good game.

Corinthian
11-19-2007, 10:14 PM
Neither of them even place in my top ten. It's just too cramped in my top 10. Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Arcanum, Bloodlines, StarCraft, Dawn of War, Deus Ex, Quest for Glory, FFVI, FFIV, Tales of Phantasia, Bahamut Lagoon, Chrono Trigger, Lufia, Jade Empire...and that's not even counting sequels.

Q
11-19-2007, 10:52 PM
^^^
Some good games there, Corinthian. :thumbsup:

KotOR would make it into my top ten, however. KotOR 2 would as well if it was complete. It isn't, so it doesn't. ;) It's a great game, but its lack of an ending really pissed me off.

Lance Monance
11-20-2007, 11:39 AM
Considering the amount of time I spent playing it, Kotor belongs to my all-time-favs. So does TSL. But best game of all time? No.

Gargoyle King
11-20-2007, 06:02 PM
It's good for the simple reasoning that it has paved the way for other games of it's generation with it's scale of a story, exciting gameplay and great sound; i'd definately put in a top list of my all time fav. games.