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View Full Version : The immortality of heroes??


Naja
11-06-2005, 07:19 PM
On the Petroglyph fan forums, one of the Petro techs who is cool enough to chat with us implied that heroes are going to be respawnable after they are killed...much like Battle for Middle Earth, or Warcraft, or any other hero-based RTS.

What are you thoughts on the matter?

Personally, I think that it's a crap decision that is based on supplicating to an already spoon-fed gamer demographic, and that Petroglyph - if at this stage is still open to persuasion - should strongly reconsider this aspect.

I mean, it's one thing if heroes can be resurrected in a game like Battle for Middle Earth or Warcraft, both of which have that fantasy world theme to them. But with Star Wars, it would come off as very cheesy and contrived...as if the decision was made simply because -other- RTS's do it.

GhOsT-Jedi
11-06-2005, 07:20 PM
I agree but I heard differently, anyways. I think heros should be like every other unit if it dies then they are done.

Samurai DD
11-06-2005, 07:46 PM
Should stay dead. They died, they stay dead. Maybe they can resurrect, but not on the same battle.

Jeff
11-06-2005, 07:59 PM
I think that ultimately they should be respawnable. You say it's unrealistic now, and it is, but you'll hate it when they're gone for good in the game. I know I would. I think that if they did not make them re-spawnable, players would be reluctant to use them at all.

Juggernaut1985
11-06-2005, 08:05 PM
Thats the point of the game though, you don't conquer with your heroes, you use your forces to conquer. Heroes should just help the process along, not BE the process.

Naja
11-06-2005, 09:30 PM
Maybe respawnable for multiplayer games. But certainly not for the campaign. It would ruin the feeling of a galaxy-wide struggle if the deaths of your greatest fighters could just be shrugged off.

Thrawn
11-07-2005, 12:28 AM
I believe there should be different classes of "hero". For instance, main charaters that appear in the movies, a la Vader, Luke, and the like should be respawnable, but not in the same battle. This just goes along with the nature of heroes in that they can be defeated, but somehow manage to pull through to fight another day. Minor EU characters are by nature more expendible and if they are killed are gone for good.

Naja
11-07-2005, 02:40 AM
But what about Obi-Wan? Palpatine? Bail Organa (died when the Death Star blew up Alderaan)? Darth Vader?

Episodes 2 and 5 were the only ones in which a major character did not die. Die. As in, expire. No more.

None of the movies would have had weight if those characters suddenly "came back." How could a game be any different?

Darth Alec
11-07-2005, 03:05 AM
But we are talking about a game. It would be really sad if Vader died in the third battle, becuse then you wouldn't have him the next 2-5 hours.

Naja
11-07-2005, 04:15 AM
I respectfully would have to disagree. If the player is faced with the possibility of his heroes dying, he will be more careful managing them; you wouldn't have to worry about losing Vader in a matter of hours if you were careful with him. ;p

FroZticles
11-07-2005, 08:00 AM
Well when heroes die on the battlefield I don't see it as them dying but just incapitated and then they are revived at the command center or whatever.

Gameplay>Realism

A game is just that a game it has no plot it has to strictly follow to keep the story going because it has to bend the rules to make the game playable and fair. It would be too frustrating ohhh I just spent 5000 credits on my Obi-Wan. Look my enemy just focused fired him with his entire army there goes the credits in a matter of 30 seconds.

Logain
11-07-2005, 08:56 AM
they could just make it an option, you could choose either respawn or total kill,

Dagobahn Eagle
11-07-2005, 09:55 AM
This is Star Wars, not South Park, and Darth Vader isn't Kenny. To put it that way.

Gameplay>Realism.
A game is just that, a game.
I hate those two stupid cliché tags.
1. Do you have a monopoly on determining what is good game-play? Don't think so. Good game-play to me is mortal heroes, good game-play to you is immortal heroes. Saying "I don't want this, because I, unlike you, want good game-play" just makes zero sense.
2. Is game-play always the opposite of realism? In this case, I feel it's Game-play=Realism. I hate people who go "realism sucks period". They totally miss the point - many realistic features make the game better, less complicated, and more fun.

It has to bend the rules to make the game playable and fair.
And how is it unfair to make heroes mortal? It's the same for all sides, right?

It would be too frustrating ohhh I just spent 5000 credits on my Obi-Wan. Look my enemy just focused fired him with his entire army there goes the credits in a matter of 30 seconds.
Yes, that'd be frustrating. And then you'd realize that maybe you should take better care of your heroes.

And seeing that heroes in this game will be over-powered monsters, that shouldn't be a problem.

You say it's unrealistic now (...)
Oh yes.
Not just unrealistic, but also silly. Not to mention that it detracts from immersion and makes the game focus more on heroes, which I feel is a bad thing (Battle for Middle Earth is a prime example on how too much focus on heroes can - in my opinion - detract from the enjoyment of a game).

Just wanted to expand on that one a little.

but you'll hate it when they're gone for good in the game.
Yup. So I take care of them.
And I'll love it when I kill the enemy hero. Think of it that way.

In Dominions II and Rome: Total War, my heroes are dead when they die. If I have a Jotun Hygja with an experience of 4, a special bonus, and increased spell levels, I'll be sure as Heck to take good care of her. She'll get a well-sized, strong body-guard, be careful not to waste her by sending her into suicide battles, and so on. If she dies, tough luck. Part of the game, like losing an important province.

Replenishable heroes is, in my opinion, one of the elements of the popular "take away the challenge from games"-trend. Another example is how some people feel that villagers shouldn't have to carry resources to drop-points (Age of Empires III).

It depends on the type of hero, really. Unique characters should not be replenishable. However, "sub-heroes", like Imperial Officers, et cetera, should of course be replaceable. You lose your officer, recruit a new one (although he won't have the experience of your old one).

They could just make it an option, you could choose either respawn or total kill
[Raises hand]
Why do people say "just add it an option" when it's obviously near-impossible for developers to do that [sarcasm ends]

Yes, I'm all for realism and difficulty options. Have you played Silent Hunter III? For single-player missions, there are probably 20 different realism options, from external view and infinite torpedoes, to realistic sinking time, assistance in aiming from your weapon officer, and infinite oxygen. Increasing realism is rewarded by the game as you get more renown (which is used for upgrades, advanced torpedoes, and new crew members) when realism is high. So once you're past the practice stage, you'll be sure to turn realism up as it gives you a huge renown bonus (at 0% realism you get 200-something renown for a completed patrol, while at 100% realism you get 700 renown).

For multi-player games, there are only four settings for realism - easy, medium, hard, and realistic.

It works really, really well and something similar should be implemented in EaW.

Nevets1112
11-07-2005, 10:53 AM
Well when heroes die on the battlefield I don't see it as them dying but just incapitated and then they are revived at the command center or whatever.

Gameplay>Realism


In this case gameplay could be ruined by nonrealism.

-=Nuke=-
11-07-2005, 12:33 PM
It could be like this:

- Hero spawned 1st time
- got like 1000 hp
- if HP reaches zero hero leaves battlefield again, not dead, not injured. Maybe just needed somewhere else. like "Darth Vader left the battlefield"

GhOsT-Jedi
11-07-2005, 01:06 PM
If, the hero can die then like some said would make you realise that this is a rtS game notice the S. If you want a arcade game where heros dont die go play battlefront. Us huge star wars fans have been waiting for a game like this for a long time and if the heros spawn then wheres the stratigic move in that? All you have to do is have your hero charge the enemy lines and think your save now if you have it where they can die then you would be more responsible and more mature to think, wait a minute he can die. Better move him to back of the lines for moral perpose.

Logain
11-07-2005, 01:24 PM
[Raises hand]
Why do people say "just add it an option" when it's obviously near-impossible for developers to do that [sarcasm ends]

Yes, I'm all for realism and difficulty options. Have you played Silent Hunter III? For single-player missions, there are probably 20 different realism options, from external view and infinite torpedoes, to realistic sinking time, assistance in aiming from your weapon officer, and infinite oxygen. Increasing realism is rewarded by the game as you get more renown (which is used for upgrades, advanced torpedoes, and new crew members) when realism is high. So once you're past the practice stage, you'll be sure to turn realism up as it gives you a huge renown bonus (at 0% realism you get 200-something renown for a completed patrol, while at 100% realism you get 700 renown).

For multi-player games, there are only four settings for realism - easy, medium, hard, and realistic.

It works really, really well and something similar should be implemented in EaW.

its actually quite simple, they code the game to have the heros respawning, they then code in a switch, respawn = off or respawn = on,

personally i'm gonna use heros as little as often, and if they get KO'd once, they then get to enjoy a nice backwater planet that wont be in battle any time soon

nightmarenny
11-07-2005, 03:06 PM
But we are talking about a game. It would be really sad if Vader died in the third battle, becuse then you wouldn't have him the next 2-5 hours.
Their are like ten heros each side. Big deal.

Jan Gaarni
11-07-2005, 03:18 PM
If you lost a character in Rebellion, he/she stayed dead.

I see nothing wrong with this, as you are bound to be more carefull what you do with them and where you bring them.

Jeff
11-07-2005, 03:52 PM
I see nothing wrong with this, as you are bound to be more carefull what you do with them and where you bring them.THe problem I would have would be being too careful with them. And I can't be the only one like that. Yes, I know that mortal heroes would be more realistic, but I think that it makes the game more enjoyable if you don't have to overprotect your heroes.

I know you must be careful with them, but I think a big enough consequence for a hero dying is waiting for them to re-spawn wherever you get your heroes. I know in Warcraft III if you lost a hero in a large battle that turned the tide tremendously, and if you had a hero on your side that also would make a big difference in the battle. But maybe EaW won't focus on the heroes as much, I don't know.

Darth Alec
11-07-2005, 03:58 PM
Still, it's not very fun to use heroes for morale.
You will want Vader in front, mowing down rebels. And what will happen when all the n00bs join and say, "Why cant I use Vader, he only gets PWNeD". Do you want that? Didnt think so.

Thrawn
11-07-2005, 04:31 PM
It's been a while since I've played Rebellion/Supremacy, but I never saw Vader or the Emperor killed off. Ever.

We have to keep in mind the game allows you to change Star Wars history. Presumably, for the Alliance, this means Obi-wan doesn't have to die if you're playing as that side. If you're playing for the Empire, then chances are you'll have the opportunity or even objective of bumping him off with Vader during your invasion of Tattooine.

vader815
11-07-2005, 06:31 PM
it would be best to have it as an option if heros can be respawned so that one can choose how real they want the game

Jeff
11-07-2005, 06:35 PM
We have to keep in mind the game allows you to change Star Wars history. Presumably, for the Alliance, this means Obi-wan doesn't have to die if you're playing as that side. If you're playing for the Empire, then chances are you'll have the opportunity or even objective of bumping him off with Vader during your invasion of Tattooine.Yeah, you got me there. That is a very good point, and it might sway my opinon. I guess I never thought about that.

StealthWar42
11-07-2005, 06:44 PM
I know you must be careful with them, but I think a big enough consequence for a hero dying is waiting for them to re-spawn wherever you get your heroes. I know in Warcraft III if you lost a hero in a large battle that turned the tide tremendously, and if you had a hero on your side that also would make a big difference in the battle. But maybe EaW won't focus on the heroes as much, I don't know.

If the game is going for a strategic war effect, the game likely won't center around one or two juggernaughts capable of "turning the tide." When I play games like Warkcraft III, I personally find that I rely too much on my heroes and end up throwing them at the enemy without much thought or preparation behind it and they still whipe out half the enemy army. If they were expendable, I probably would have thought about how I used the heroes as opposed to just sending them in head-on and seeing how much destruction they can cause.

And I don't know about anybody else, but I don't want a game where one unit like Luke could charge a squad of AT-AT's and remain unscathed. I would find it frustrating if I directed all my firepower to one hero and still didn't destroy it. If they're going to be that powerful and that hard to kill, they better not be respawnable.

Jeff
11-07-2005, 06:50 PM
And I don't know about anybody else, but I don't want a game where one unit like Luke could charge a squad of AT-AT's and remain unscathed. I would find it frustrating if I directed all my firepower to one hero and still didn't destroy it. If they're going to be that powerful and that hard to kill, they better not be respawnable.Well, I think this is a little extreme. I wasn't trying to say that they would be invincible, I just meant that they would be re-spawnable. But see my previous post, I'm not sure whether I like them to be respawnable anymore...

FroZticles
11-07-2005, 07:28 PM
Gameplay>Realism for those of you who are a bit slow on the intake.

BattleDamage
11-07-2005, 07:55 PM
I, being both a huge RTS AND Star Wars fan, think heroes should be excluded altogether from the game. It would take away from the strategic element in the game. I mean, i think you should be able to use commnder to help improve your forces morale or firpower or defensive capabilities, but i dont believe luke or vader should be able to walk onto the battleifeld and simply blow away entire squads of infantry and vehicles into oblivion. That would just be wrong and stupid.
I also dont think respawned heroes should come into play. This game is supposed to let you make your own star Wars storyline, and respawnable heroes would imply that there was already a preset storlyline for you to follow because vader and luke dont die in the movies.

Naja
11-07-2005, 09:30 PM
*prays that this aspect will at LEAST be moddable*

StealthWar42
11-07-2005, 10:17 PM
Agreed, Naja and BattleDamage.

Heroism has no place on the battlefield! ;) (just kidding not looking to get flamed)

Jeff
11-07-2005, 11:18 PM
I, being both a huge RTS AND Star Wars fan, think heroes should be excluded altogether from the game. It would take away from the strategic element in the game.
BattleDamage, I have to disagree. Heroes is one of the elements of the game, and without them it would make it a different game. Almost all RTS games have heroes in them.

but i dont believe luke or vader should be able to walk onto the battleifeld and simply blow away entire squads of infantry and vehicles into oblivion.This won't happen, they won't be this powerful.

Nevets1112
11-08-2005, 12:03 AM
"Gameplay>Realism for those of you who are a bit slow on the intake."

Thats a cliche not an argument.

and don't you think heros being immortal could hurt gameplay? It could distract from using your regular military units and you could become to dependent on heros. You should be catious hving to use heros, not being able to say "Hey I can use my hero here, I am just going to get him back anyway"

Dagobahn Eagle
11-08-2005, 06:53 AM
its actually quite simple, they code the game to have the heros respawning, they then code in a switch, respawn = off or respawn = on
I was being sarcastic:p.

The problem I would have would be being too careful with them.
Not at all. Have you played games where heroes are mortal, such as WarCraft III, Dominions II, and so on?

what will happen when all the n00bs join and say, "Why cant I use Vader, he only gets PWNeD". Do you want that? Didnt think so.
Overhear them. That's what the Galactic Conquest developer team did when they repeatedly were spammed by whiners wanting Jedi, parachutes, jet packs, and so on. Whiners have ruined enough games as it is, so just ignore them until they start discussing the topic with intelligence and rational arguments.

Gameplay>Realism for those of you who are a bit slow on the intake.
Already addressed. Read the whole thread before replying.

I, being both a huge RTS AND Star Wars fan, think heroes should be excluded altogether from the game.
[Hugs BattleDamage]

*prays that this aspect will at LEAST be moddable*
Joins in.

Logain
11-08-2005, 07:18 AM
doh, didnt realise there was a /sarcasm in there :P

Jmaster3265
11-08-2005, 08:50 AM
This is what i think, they should be re-spawnable but once they die in a mission or etc. They should stay dead, until what ever re-spawns them.

DarthMaulUK
11-08-2005, 09:28 AM
In Rebellion, heroes could not be killed. They could be captured. Remember, Rebellion didnt actually have any ground battles, and heroes were used for the benefit of combat by assigning them a rank of Admiral, General, commander etc to give your fleets and ground assault troops a bonus in attacks.

DMUK

Givike
11-08-2005, 11:38 AM
Dagobahn Eagle = #1 lol

He has a point guys and when heroes die they DIE! But maybe you'll be able to bionicly recreate a body like they did for darth father. (If they're on time) This offcourse would be incredibly difficult to do and would only work if you actually succeed in taking the planet you're fighting on. (or defending)

I don't know anything about battle for middle earth but I know in world of warcraft people usually attack the hero with everything they got! Even though they don't bring that much leverage! If they do the same thing here it'll probably be the same since most gamers out there use influences from other games to there advantage. I know I do from Age of empires II!

I would rather suggest that Luke in an X-wing would get a bonus or something in destroying a death star. maybe like +15% accuracy attacking a death star. Etc...

Simple upgrades!

PS
In rome total war if you play with an army long enough that doesn't have a general. After a while it's possible to adopt the captain of that army as a general! (It's not something you decide) but it would be cool to have some decorated 'soldiers' who give bonus to their squadron or whatever.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
IF (which I do not like) they are respawnable, do NOT make them incredibly strong. EaW has implemented a battlecam for a reason! To see the battle from a cinematic point of view and not to see you're darth vader squash humans for hours at a time.



/Gary :)

Jeff
11-08-2005, 11:40 AM
Not at all. Have you played games where heroes are mortal, such as WarCraft III, Dominions II, and so on?Yeah, I played Warcraft all the time, and the heroes are respawnable at the proper building. I think if EaW used a system similar to that it would be effective.

Darth_Extas
11-08-2005, 12:12 PM
In my opinion heros staying dead would bring the better sense back into the game. As well all the RTS games I have played, have the heros being mortal. If they respawn though, I think if the game were to have a set time like after 10 battles or something. I support the mortality though because this game will have a sense of time, as said you can alter the events of ANH as well as after ROTS. Soon enough if a campaign is long enough that you can get to the Battle of Endor. If I can remember there are as well still some CIS forces out there that could be on planets as a nuetral force against both the Rebels and Imperials.

PoM
11-08-2005, 01:02 PM
If they stayed dead would be much more of this "You change the story" stuff, so I...
I vote for them staying dead.

Jan Gaarni
11-08-2005, 02:01 PM
In Rebellion, heroes could not be killed. They could be captured. Remember, Rebellion didnt actually have any ground battles, and heroes were used for the benefit of combat by assigning them a rank of Admiral, General, commander etc to give your fleets and ground assault troops a bonus in attacks.

DMUK
That's odd, cause I've lost plenty, aswell as killed plenty. :confused:

Logain
11-08-2005, 02:09 PM
isnt there actually an assasinate mission for your covert ops guys in rebellion?

Thrawn
11-08-2005, 02:42 PM
Yes, but I think usually it resulted only in the character being wounded and out of commission for a few turns.

Darth_Extas
11-08-2005, 02:42 PM
That is yet to be decided I think, That is another idea of wounding them. Although that only happended...(I'll have to finish this post later)

Darth Alec
11-08-2005, 02:44 PM
Maybe there could be a system of bying them back, as if they had been held ransom. That would also give a nice sorta mini campian to get Vader back after he had hes butt handed to him by Luke.

Nevets1112
11-08-2005, 03:52 PM
In rebellion most heros could be killed, once dead they were done for, couldn't use them again.

The really important characters like Luke and Leia could not died and would just be injured and be out for awhile.

Admiral Sith
11-08-2005, 07:38 PM
You can apparently change the XML to make them unspawnable if you wish

StealthWar42
11-08-2005, 08:17 PM
How do you know that already?

gamefreak
11-08-2005, 11:21 PM
Hope thats true it would nice to turn it on and off

Jan Gaarni
11-09-2005, 01:57 AM
All you have to do is change the spawn rate value to 9999999.

Naja
11-09-2005, 04:11 AM
It's still not clear when you would order a hero to respawn. Would it be on the Galactic Map? Or in the midst of a battle?

It wouldn't make much sense to have it on the Galaxy Map. Where would your hero be respawning? How? Furthermore, it would make modding the time sort of a drag to replicate "real" death, as eventually - even with 9,999,999 to the respawn rate - the sucker would come back.

And if it's in a battle (which would be the most reasonable), that adds a bit more complexity to it.

Would the "recharge rate" carry from battle to battle (so if Vader gets killed and his respawn had only gone up to 50% by the end of the last battle, would the next battle start at 50% for his respawn capability?), or would you have to start from the beginning of the recharge rate every time a mission starts and your hero didn't get to 100% before the last mission ended?

Givike
11-09-2005, 08:23 AM
If they are respawnable they should be like this:

If dead, long respawntime since they have to rehabilitate (like Luke did on hoth system) and they should lose all their skills. Therefor people will take more care of them instead of just sending it off alone.

Maybe the respawning should be a reasearch or something?

Jeff
11-09-2005, 01:26 PM
If they are respawnable they should be like this:

If dead, long respawntime since they have to rehabilitate (like Luke did on hoth system) and they should lose all their skills. Therefor people will take more care of them instead of just sending it off alone.

Maybe the respawning should be a reasearch or something?

I think that these are good ideas. Definitely have a long respawn time, that is a must if heroes are to respawn, and lose their skills is another good idea. This will allow people to use their heroes without having to worry about losing them forever, but they will still have to be careful in what they send them on and not just send them into battle without any support.

Jan Gaarni
11-09-2005, 02:07 PM
If you lose them in the midst of battle, he's out till the battle ends.

Keep in mind, when battle is going on, the galaxy stands almost still.

So yes, heroes will respawn on the galaxy map, as that is when time moves forward.

Thrawn
11-09-2005, 03:12 PM
I think that's the best system really. Although I do like the idea of them losing their experience if killed.

Jeff
11-09-2005, 05:41 PM
If you lose them in the midst of battle, he's out till the battle ends.

Keep in mind, when battle is going on, the galaxy stands almost still.

So yes, heroes will respawn on the galaxy map, as that is when time moves forward.
This is official I assume? It sounds like a pretty good way of doing it. Compromise between the "want respawn people" and the "dead for good" people, and for people like myself who are undecided in how the wanted it to be.

RobQel-Droma
11-09-2005, 05:54 PM
While I think it might be kind of wierd if heroes never died, and you could just bring them back, I think that they should make them respawnable. It wouldn't make sense if some character died that wasn't supposed to die, and they didn't come back. I think there should be some kind of trade-off though, you shouldn't be able to just keep sending them out there immediately to die and then just respawn them back. I voted yes.

Jan Gaarni
11-09-2005, 07:27 PM
This is official I assume? It sounds like a pretty good way of doing it. Compromise between the "want respawn people" and the "dead for good" people, and for people like myself who are undecided in how the wanted it to be.
Well, no, not entirely.

But it would be the best solution. And since time does stand still when you are in combat, I assume you will get the hero back at a later time outside the combat enviroment when time moves forward again.

Naja
11-09-2005, 09:56 PM
If hero respawn happened on the (real-time) Galaxy Map though, it would make moot any attempt to mod them to stay dead - eventually, they would come back.

Jeff
11-09-2005, 10:01 PM
Well, no, not entirely.

But it would be the best solution. And since time does stand still when you are in combat, I assume you will get the hero back at a later time outside the combat enviroment when time moves forward again.
Ahh. I misunderstood you. Still, this would be the best way, I agree. Hopefully LA agrees also ;)

RobQel-Droma
11-10-2005, 12:31 AM
I agree too, it would probably be better to not spawn them back in the battle at all, now that I think about it.

Dagobahn Eagle
11-10-2005, 06:05 AM
He has a point guys and when heroes die they DIE! But maybe you'll be able to bionicly recreate a body like they did for darth father. (If they're on time)
Perhaps. That'd be an interesting feature, too - imagine a 1v2 on a planet's surface:

Rebel Player 1: Oh noez! Here comes Darth Vader:eek:!
Rebel Player 2: Relax, it's just Leia. We got her a suit, too, 'cause an AT-At stepped on her.
Rebel Player 1: Phew:o.

Darth_Extas
11-16-2005, 10:47 PM
This issue accually has recently been solved by the Chat with the developers, they said the heroes will only get injured and leave the battle so that they may fight another day.

Darth Alec
11-17-2005, 10:43 AM
Thats good.

darthfergie
11-17-2005, 12:21 PM
I have a question about heros though. Since they don't die, what happens when the rebels or Imperials have the enemy cornered at their last planet? Are all the enemy heros there? Do you have to face 20 heros in addition to the massive armies of the enemy? or do you think they would only allow 1-2 heros in ground campaigns as generals so that you have to choose the hero with the best traits to suit your ground attack force?

gamefreak
11-17-2005, 02:15 PM
Thats easy when you get the rebs down to one planet with 20 heros and a massive army you just Death star it!
If your playing as the rebels :lol: good luck against Vader

Darth_Extas
11-17-2005, 03:48 PM
Very True.

no doubt that that might work, Hmm but what about the trench run, how can you stop that from happening.

gamefreak
11-17-2005, 07:12 PM
Bring the largest fleet you can with the most fighters and blast the rabels into ablivion!
Then death star the heck out of the place!
Darn it I did it again I hit submit notice an error and then tryed to fix and resend it but it was to late. I still dont know how to delete posts so a mod will have to do it. sorry!

To delete posts, click the edit button and at the top you will see delete post. Check the check box and then just click delete ~ DM

Darth_Extas
11-18-2005, 11:47 AM
Again True.

But this is Large Fleet vs. Final Defence, Who knows what defence they could have on that planet. Such as a Immoble Superlaser or Ion Cannon(Like on Hoth). Besides they could still survive if they run your attack.

gamefreak
11-18-2005, 02:39 PM
No matter what, wether your Empire or Rebel, Death star or not the last battle is going to be good. Im just suggesting how I would attempt to do it.

lukeiamyourdad
11-20-2005, 07:52 PM
I don't think we can apply Rome: Total War's hero system like some people seem to like. We obviously have a very limited number of heroes. In Rome: Total War, heroes were precious, yes, but they were easily replaceable by another one who will eventually grow old enough to lead army.

In E@W's case, we have set heroes, no Ptotlemeus the Mighty who can die and have his son, Marcus Aurelius replace him in 20 turns. It's not like Leia and Han can start making babies at a very fast rate.
You might run out of heroes, which isn't good, since people will be prefer to take no risks at all then to try a bold move with their hero.

Admiral Sith
11-20-2005, 09:35 PM
If you set the Respawn rate to 99999999999 or whatever, you would have to play one game for a couple of days strait to get them back.

For the few of you who want no respawn, you can just set the timers in XML to 9999999. Poof heroes do not return.

I understand you guys may not like the idea of heroes returning, but in our play sessions we just found it to be more fun.

I believe I added an option in multiplayer to turn heroes off for a truly sterile game-play experience, but I can't remember. I am at home typing this and have not had any coffee.

Jeff
11-20-2005, 09:36 PM
That would be a good way to solve it. That way both sides would be happy.

Thrawn
11-21-2005, 12:12 AM
I like the idea of the heroes just being wounded and fleeing. It seems in keeping with Star Wars lore. Luke is injured, but escapes, Obi-wan escapes or is rescued plenty of times in the prequel era, etc.

shadowsfm
11-21-2005, 02:13 PM
unlike warcraft 3, heros can only be respawned in galactic mode anyway, the way i understand is you cant make more units during combat

popcorn2008
11-21-2005, 06:11 PM
I think that petro should just code in a hero respawn boolean, meaning true/false. Instead of giving the workaround set your timer to 9999999 <- or whatever number they gave. Because if that is the case, then eventually they will respawn. And seeing as we dont know the time scale, and how fast it goes its hard to say how long it would take.

This may seem silly but from a programmers point of view the whole 9999999 thing seems a bit sloppy and an easy work around.

Naja
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
I agree completely, Popcorn. A true/false toggle would be most effective. Just as well, 9999999 settings -are- a bit of a copout, aren't they.

Jeff
11-23-2005, 04:55 PM
I think the 9999999 respawn setting would be just for one game - meaning you would have to be playing for days at a time - and not just an overall setting. That's how I understood it anyways.

Jan Gaarni
11-23-2005, 05:23 PM
:wstupid:

That's the way I understood it too.

In fact, that's what Delphi said.

Dagobahn Eagle
11-24-2005, 06:52 AM
That would be a good way to solve it. That way both sides would be happy.
Not me, for one.
When you've editted your XML like this, you can only play with others with the exact same settings. So I'll have to make a copy of the XML and switch them back and forth using Windows Explorer, depending on what server I join or host.

I call it cumbersome, unless there's a good mod management system with the game.

aggie_john
11-28-2005, 02:45 PM
Well I know it was only a demo but we did see Vader kill Obiwon at E3 right? Perhaps only a hero can kill another hero. I mean that makes sense. I dont want Vader geting killed by the pvt jones of the Rebel army just doesnt feel star wars, yeah vader should be hurt bad and forced to leave the battle.

If nothing else perhaps a way to limit heros from getting out of control is to link them to a specific planet, even Vader. Lose that planet and you lose that hero.

popcorn2008
11-28-2005, 04:59 PM
Well I know it was only a demo but we did see Vader kill Obiwon at E3 right? Perhaps only a hero can kill another hero. I mean that makes sense. I dont want Vader geting killed by the pvt jones of the Rebel army just doesnt feel star wars, yeah vader should be hurt bad and forced to leave the battle.

If nothing else perhaps a way to limit heros from getting out of control is to link them to a specific planet, even Vader. Lose that planet and you lose that hero.
Obi-Wan did kill Vader, but the deal here is there is a time between the moment a hero is killed and then they are respawned. So technically heroes can die, but they can rise again to fight anouther day.

Jmaster3265
11-28-2005, 06:05 PM
Obi-Wan did kill Vader, but the deal here is there is a time between the moment a hero is killed and then they are respawned. So technically heroes can die, but they can rise again to fight anouther day.


Huh? Don't you mean Darth did kill Obi-Wan? Not the other way around? According to the E3 demo and what he said Darth killed Ob-Wan....

popcorn2008
11-28-2005, 06:13 PM
Huh? Don't you mean Darth did kill Obi-Wan? Not the other way around? According to the E3 demo and what he said Darth killed Ob-Wan....
Yes, that's what I meant. Mix up in words, I apologize.

aggie_john
11-29-2005, 11:30 AM
Yeah but it should have said, Obiwon has fled the battle field right? I mean when Vader cuts off lukes arm, would you say Vader has killed Luke? No right, now this is flimsy at best I know because it was a E3 demo, but its sometime to think about right. People dont want heros to die like punks. Luke cant be killed by stormies but then again as an empire faction player I want to defeat Rebel heros so as to win the game. The key moments to victory would be say vader killing obiwon, or luke. That would give me that sense of star wars history being changed.

Darth_Extas
11-29-2005, 11:46 AM
Ok I'm fine with that, as well as the Hero vs. Hero Timeline alter/Hero Death system. The reasons are definitly clear that that will be the system(although they may not be). The showing during E3 does show the base of the timeline change system and during E3 the game making companies try to show the game how it will be(trying to avoid any other questions about the game or expecting more I'm not sure). E3 is the event that shows how a game will come out or a image of how it will come out.

lukeiamyourdad
11-29-2005, 06:48 PM
I don't see how some people are pissed at the idea of a hero getting killed by regular troops. If Obi-Wan decides to charge alone against a legion of Stormtroopers with support fire from vehicles, I expect him to die.

popcorn2008
11-29-2005, 09:21 PM
I don't see how some people are pissed at the idea of a hero getting killed by regular troops. If Obi-Wan decides to charge alone against a legion of Stormtroopers with support fire from vehicles, I expect him to die.
I agree with Luke totally. If say Obi-Wan dies by a squad of stormies its one persons fault, yours! You shouldnt have had Obi-Wan go on a suicide mission then. Heroes shouldnt get special privlidges and be invulnerable to regular troops.

Commander Obi-Wan
11-29-2005, 09:42 PM
I don't see how some people are pissed at the idea of a hero getting killed by regular troops. If Obi-Wan decides to charge alone against a legion of Stormtroopers with support fire from vehicles, I expect him to die.

I too agree with lukeiamyourdad. If Obi-Wan decides to run into a legion of Stormtroopers, with support from vehicles. I'd expect him to die. I just doesn't make sense.

Darth_Extas
11-30-2005, 01:17 PM
Once again to note about this that they said that the heroes would be injured and would at one time rejoin the battle. But as said in the transcript when something very close to this was asked, one of developers said that much like luke had battled vader in bespin. The would be Injured by regular troopers and live to fight another day. I think it would only be a Hero vs. Hero way of killing the Sith/Jedi hero characters. In the case if Chewy or Han Solo were to charge into a group of stormys I would agree that he should die because there is nothing he would do to stop him from dieing unlike any Jedi/Sith, due to theri abilities..

aggie_john
12-01-2005, 02:18 AM
I dont know, thats what the movies are all about. How many times did Han run into a pack of stormies and live. I can see the fled the battle part, but at the same time I could see people wanting that finality of a hero's death. I think a good compromise is a clamatic hero on hero battle where the loser stays dead.

Darth_Extas
12-01-2005, 11:50 AM
That is what the system they chose to be for heroes death. I believe because during the Vader vs. Obi-wone... Obiwon fell and perished physically from vader saber so it makes as much sense as any.

gamefreak
12-02-2005, 11:44 AM
yeah something like if the get "killed" by regular troops the leave the battle and if they get killed by heros there dead dead if thats what your saying.

DarkLeeLee
12-03-2005, 11:05 PM
i think hero that can return after they die now that sucks maybe the dont have to be killed maybe caught or missing in action i think it take realism out of it a bit

shadowsfm
12-04-2005, 05:12 AM
the become incapasitated

Fishflesh
12-04-2005, 08:37 AM
sould stay dead in singel player... in multiplayer however i dont realy know it all depence on the game and ballance.

popcorn2008
12-04-2005, 12:08 PM
If they really want to keep up with Star Wars history than Obi-Wan has to die somehow... But it wouldnt be right if Obi-Wan is programmed to die no matter what, but if you kill Vader than he lives.

I bet you that they programmed it that when Obi-Wan and Vader fight, Obi becomes one with the force. Then again they could just make it be let the best man win, which is what im hoping they do. It will be intereasting to see, because if heroes cannot die, than technically you can never repeat star wars history, because Obi-Wan will always live.

Jeff
12-04-2005, 12:13 PM
And to continue that statement, if Vader can't die/Kenobi can't live, then you can't 'Change History Forever.'