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Pada-kid
11-06-2005, 06:30 PM
Ok Listen Up Some Could Agree And Soem Disagree

You know the whole story anakin was supposed to be the chosen one but he turned into the dark side.

Then Theres Luke The Next Person To Be The Chosen One.

But In The Last Bit Of Return Of The Jedi

ITS NOT LUKE THAT KILLS Darth Sidious Its Anakin(Vader)

I Think The First Prophecy Is True And Anakin Was The Chosen one And Luke just Helped Him To See the Light Of IT.

MachineCult
11-06-2005, 06:33 PM
You're correct, Anakin is, Luke isn't.

Darth_Terros
11-06-2005, 06:39 PM
Yep lucas has said anakin is the chosen one

El Sitherino
11-06-2005, 10:43 PM
Thank you Captain Obvious, you've done a great service by telling us information we already knew.

The Doctor
11-06-2005, 11:54 PM
How can anyone think that Luke is the Chosen One? It is never even suggested that he might possibly be the Chosen One.

JawaJoey
11-07-2005, 02:08 AM
How can anyone think that Luke is the Chosen One? It is never even suggested that he might possibly be the Chosen One.

It's quite easy to think that Luke is the Chosen One. To say that he isn't because it's never explicitly mentoned that he might be is foolish. The only people who knew of the prophecy were Jedi, and how many Jedi were alive when Luke was around? I don't think Obi-Wan and Yoda have much faith in that particular prophecy at that point.

Luke, though not concieved by the force, was the son of someone who was. And Luke's heritage and force history definitely had a profound effect on the outcome of him as a person and Jedi. Anakin fell to the dark side, and put the force as off balance as one possibly can. Luke resisted the Dark Side, through every trial and temptation. It was Luke's actions that balanced the Force. People will argue that it was Vader that killed the emperor, but he did so because of Luke. More importantly, one can argue that Vader was the person that was imbalancing the force (Palpatine was the pupeteer behind the Dark Side's rise, but Vader was the elephant that tipped the scale, if you get my meaning). It was Luke that restored Vader to light, which could be taken as the balancing of the force. Vader did the last action, but Luke was the source, and the doer of the preceding, just as important action, that led to the balance of the force.

And just in case anyone was convinced by my argument, I'd like to apologize, because GL himself has stated that Anakin is indeed the one and only Chosen One, so any discussion is mostly pointless.

The Doctor
11-07-2005, 04:37 PM
^ The prophecy referred to one who was conceived of the midioclorians. That makes it clear that Luke could not have been the Chosen One. Anakin did bring balance to the Force. Luke was only a factor that led to the balancing of the Force. Nowhere in the orophecy did it say how long it would take the Chosen One to bring balance, or that he would not face the Dark Side first. It is not esay to think that Luke is the Chosen One if you know anything about the prophecy.

Alkonium
11-07-2005, 07:11 PM
Anakin didn't bring balance to the Force. He caused it to have an extreme lean to the Light Side. Perhaps both Luke and Anakin are the Chosen Two.

El Sitherino
11-07-2005, 07:24 PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong, all wrong.

Anakin did bring balance to the force, go watch RoTJ again. Notice him throw Palpatine off the catwalk into the generator, observe him fight the conflict within him winning out over Vader moments before.

Alkonium
11-07-2005, 07:26 PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong, all wrong.

Anakin did bring balance to the force, go watch RoTJ again. Notice him throw Palpatine off the catwalk into the generator, observe him fight the conflict within him winning out over Vader moments before.Yes, but balance means an equal amount of Light and Dark, not favouring the Light.

El Sitherino
11-07-2005, 07:27 PM
Wrong.

Alkonium
11-07-2005, 07:29 PM
Wrong.I'm no Grey Jedi, but the Light and Dark Sides must be in equilibrium for there to be true balance.

El Sitherino
11-07-2005, 07:34 PM
No, you're taking the literal sense of balance. The balance they mean is one of harmony. The sith are a cancer on the living force, destroying them allows the living force to once again thrive and exercise it's will.

Lynk Former
11-07-2005, 08:34 PM
The destruction of the Sith doesn't necessarily mean that all evil has been destroyed.

Kurgan
11-07-2005, 09:59 PM
No, but for the purposes of Lucas's story, the "Dark Side" element that was throwing things off is removed. Heck, if two Sith are more powerful than 10,000 Jedi, something's amiss! ;)

Anyway, I agree, unless Lucas has contradicted himself on the new DVD (I don't yet own it) then that's the story.

Still, I think without Luke, Anakin probably would never have come out of it. He'd either have continued to serve his master, or maybe tried to overthrow him one day (and failed? or they both die, as it turned out).

Kain
11-07-2005, 11:17 PM
Wanna get really technical? In RotS, at the end there are 2 Sith, the Master and the Apprentice, and 2 Jedi, a Master(Yoda) and the apprentice(as Obi-Wan was no where NEAR Yoda's level). Thats pretty balanced to me...

Darth Alec
11-08-2005, 06:57 AM
Balance means equall. The force was seriously in the light, then Vader came, executed the jedi order, put everthing in the dark, and then later ended darkness. Luke was a new type of force user (not jedi, they are users of light) that uses both good and evil, so the force was in balance.

Prime
11-08-2005, 11:10 AM
But there isn't really a "light side" per se (I don't think there are any g-canon references to the "light side of the force"). There is just the Force, and the dark side. I think the point is that the Force is in balance on its own. The Sith and the dark side unbalance that. Thus killing the sith removes the dark side and returns the Force to its natural balanced state.

TK-8252
11-08-2005, 11:42 AM
No, you're taking the literal sense of balance. The balance they mean is one of harmony. The sith are a cancer on the living force, destroying them allows the living force to once again thrive and exercise it's will.

Quoted for truth.

Balance = no Sith.

That's it...

Kurgan
11-08-2005, 12:12 PM
What about Dark Jedi? *throws EU monkey wrench into the theory*

;)

El Sitherino
11-08-2005, 12:14 PM
Dark Jedi are plot devices created by unimaginative writers who like to try and recreate the whole "Taxi Driver" anti-hero thing.

Kurgan
11-08-2005, 12:53 PM
Well post-prequels, but before that they were just a stand-in for the Sith. I thought I heard that Lucas specifically forbade them to feature Sith characters in the EU at some point, so this was just a loop hole. ;)

Prime
11-08-2005, 01:18 PM
Well post-prequels, but before that they were just a stand-in for the Sith. I thought I heard that Lucas specifically forbade them to feature Sith characters in the EU at some point, so this was just a loop hole. ;)It may have been earlier, but IIRC Lucas made tge Sith off limits for the NJO.

He should have gone one step further and made the NJO off limits. :D

JawaJoey
11-08-2005, 08:10 PM
^ The prophecy referred to one who was conceived of the midioclorians. That makes it clear that Luke could not have been the Chosen One. Anakin did bring balance to the Force. Luke was only a factor that led to the balancing of the Force. Nowhere in the orophecy did it say how long it would take the Chosen One to bring balance, or that he would not face the Dark Side first. It is not esay to think that Luke is the Chosen One if you know anything about the prophecy.


What we know about the prophecy:
There will be a Chosen One who will bring balance to the force.
Said chosen one will be concieved by Midichlorians.

Also, the prophecy "misread, may have been."

Anakin was the one concieved by midichlorians, and was extremely strong in the force. Who knows the true happenings of Luke's conception? Was it human genetics, pure and simple? Or did the high concentration of midichlorians in Anakin do a lot more? It's not necessarily an obvious train of thought to follow, but certainly plausible enough to beleive if you take the other evidence to suggest that Luke is the Chosen One.
Whether or not the prophecy suggested anything about how or when the chosen one will bring balance to the force really doesn't change anything, or answer any argument that anyone has brought up.
I stated previously the arguments for why one can consider Luke to have actually balanced the Force.

So yes, it actually is easy to beleive that Luke is the Chosen One, even when you know all about the prophecy.

Still doesn't matter though, because the fact is: Anakin is the Chosen One.


I agree that "balancing" the force does not mean equality of light and dark, it means elimination of the bad.
In ROTS, Obi-Wan says "You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them!" Therefore it is pretty safe to assume that the balancing of the force brought about by the chosen one was to entail the elimination of the Sith, and it did not mean to literally balance the Sith with Jedi.

TK-8252
11-08-2005, 08:12 PM
Who knows the true happenings of Luke's conception?

A Jedi and a Senator goin' at it.

Darth Alec
11-09-2005, 12:54 PM
Maybe the jedi have misread the prophecy, and that to make the force in balance, there cannot be to much light or to much darkness.

El Sitherino
11-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Maybe the jedi have misread the prophecy, and that to make the force in balance, there cannot be to much light or to much darkness.
Except Lucas has gone on to say the prophecy was fulfilled and Anakin is indeed the chosen one. The line in RoTS was merely the jedi realizing things aren't exactly going as planned, and perhaps everything else they believe (namely the prophecy) is wrong.

TK-8252
11-09-2005, 04:04 PM
Except Lucas has gone on to say the prophecy was fulfilled and Anakin is indeed the chosen one. The line in RoTS was merely the jedi realizing things aren't exactly going as planned, and perhaps everything else they believe (namely the prophecy) is wrong.

Exactly.

A lot of people have problems understanding what is revealed in RotS because they take everything they hear (like Yoda's speculation and Sidious's lies) as fact, and forgetting what all the other movies reveal.

Lady Vader
11-14-2005, 12:47 PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong, all wrong.

Anakin did bring balance to the force, go watch RoTJ again. Notice him throw Palpatine off the catwalk into the generator, observe him fight the conflict within him winning out over Vader moments before.


I still disagree. Anakin brings balance to the Force by killing the emperor and fulfilling the prophecy BECAUSE of Luke's influence. Were it not for Luke's pleading, Vader would not feel conflict in himself causing him to turn again.

Lynk Former
11-14-2005, 01:16 PM
@ Lady Vader: That doesn't make Luke the chosen one, it just makes him an instrument that helps the chosen one.

TK-8252
11-14-2005, 04:06 PM
Apparently some people have forgotten the "concieved by the midichlorians" part.

Remember, it was Padme and Anakin who birthed Luke. I sort of thought most people would know that by now.

Lady Vader
11-14-2005, 04:13 PM
Apparently some people have forgotten the "concieved by the midichlorians" part.

Remember, it was Padme and Anakin who birthed Luke. I sort of thought most people would know that by now.

Indeed. Most people DO know that. And the point is...?

MachineCult
11-14-2005, 04:13 PM
Make this thread a Poll so we can finally end this discussion.

TK-8252
11-14-2005, 04:16 PM
Indeed. Most people DO know that. And the point is...?

That the Chosen One is concieved by the midiclorians, not by a mother and father. Therefore Luke is clearly not the Chosen One. Pay closer attention to TPM.

Is there any real point to this thread anyway? It's already been confirmed by George Lucas himself that Anakin is indeed the Chosen One.

MachineCult
11-14-2005, 04:22 PM
By the same logic as saying Luke is the chosen one, you can say that Obi-Wan or Yoda were chosen one because they helped him become a Jedi so that he could confront Vader and help him fulfill the Prophecy.

Anakin is the chosen one.

Lady Vader, why do you think that he isn't?

Lady Vader
11-14-2005, 04:36 PM
By the same logic as saying Luke is the chosen one, you can say that Obi-Wan or Yoda were chosen one because they helped him become a Jedi so that he could confront Vader and help him fulfill the Prophecy.

Anakin is the chosen one.

Lady Vader, why do you think that he isn't?


Luke was 'strong in the Force', so I think he would have eventually become a Jedi Knight even without Obi-Wan's and Yoda's influence. Luke was referred to as "the last hope".

However, since Lucas already confirmed that Anakin is the One, there is no point in arguing it I suppose.

JediConsularAD
11-14-2005, 05:26 PM
Ok al i can say is that anakin did brinng balance to the force, in rotj all the existing sith are destroyed and the jedi are extint nearly, A balance is struck through luke, if you watch he wears dark clothes like his father and wasnt really properly trained so he is balanced in a way.

this theory could be wrong and mabye luke is going slightly dark and leia will be light, who knows.

The Doctor
11-14-2005, 05:38 PM
^ If anybody mentions that Luke did fall to the Dark Side, I'm going to scream. Stupid EU.

JediConsularAD
11-14-2005, 05:47 PM
i wasnt saying he fell to the dark side i was just saying that he was perhaps slighty less light than other jedi and so could have a balance struck through him, like hes a grey jedi

Lady Vader
11-14-2005, 05:57 PM
^ If anybody mentions that Luke did fall to the Dark Side, I'm going to scream. Stupid EU.

What is it with this hatred of the EU? I have never quite understood that. After the movies have ended, what else is there? I for one, enjoy reading EU books, comics, fan fiction, and whatever else. So what's wrong with that?

JediConsularAD
11-14-2005, 06:09 PM
What is it with this hatred of the EU? I have never quite understood that. After the movies have ended, what else is there? I for one, enjoy reading EU books, comics, fan fiction, and whatever else. So what's wrong with that?

Yeah i gotta agree that the EU is what make star what it is, i mean its 6 amazing films that have a history of its own that i am still learning, the oficial site has a databank full of what seems like unlimited knowledge, incase anyones wondering theres scientests apparently that work on making things from star wars real

El Sitherino
11-14-2005, 06:49 PM
I still disagree. Anakin brings balance to the Force by killing the emperor and fulfilling the prophecy BECAUSE of Luke's influence. Were it not for Luke's pleading, Vader would not feel conflict in himself causing him to turn again.
Luke was only a catalyst, he is not the chosen one.

Indeed. Most people DO know that. And the point is...?
Watch the movies again and stop saying stupid crap.

What is it with this hatred of the EU?

Most of it is stupid and contradicts much of the movies.

I for one, enjoy reading EU books, comics, fan fiction, and whatever else. So what's wrong with that?
Nothing, what's wrong with us having opinions of our own?

Yeah i gotta agree that the EU is what make star what it is
Actually that'd be the movies.

MachineCult
11-14-2005, 06:59 PM
JediConsular, the fact that Luke wears black clothes does not bring balance to the force, the fact that the Sith exist is what unbalances it.
The right amount of light and the right amount of dark also does not bring balance to the force, proven by the fact that in ANH and ESB there are an equal amount of Jedi and Sith in existence.

LadyVader, perhaps you should consider the fact that alot of people don't want the ageing and death of characters from their favourite movies chronicled for them to read, and have stuff like the Yuuzhan Vong and that they conquered Coruscant ruining the ending of ROTJ for us.

The Doctor
11-14-2005, 07:12 PM
What's wrong with the EU? To name a few things:
LUKE FALLS TO THE DARK SIDE! WHAT THE **** IS UP WITH THAT?!?
THEY KILL CHEWIE! THAT IS THE STUPIDIST THING EVER!
THE YUZHAN VONG? GIVE ME A BREAK!
LUKE, A JEDI, GETTING MARRIED! THAT'S FORBIDDEN FOR A JEDI!
THE REST OF THE NEW JEDI ORDER SERIES. I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANY FURTHER.
THEY CLONE THE EMPEROR! COME UP WITH A NEW VILLAIN, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
The only mildly good part of the EU was the Thrawn Trilogy, and even that had it's faults (though very few compared to the rest of the EU).