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MxBxZ
11-12-2005, 12:46 PM
By cheaters I mean slider and the other mod makers who keep adding insane cheats into the game like grapplehooks and jetpacks, and who tweak the game settings for infinite force and lightside advantages.

Kurgan
11-12-2005, 01:10 PM
They're not really cheaters, they're just mod makers. ;)

And yes, tons of people have bashed, argued, debated, flamed, and offered constructive criticism to slider, master hex, chosen one and everyone else that I know of who's made an admin mod like that with abusable stuff (other than the guy who made dc mod, I don't know if his is even popular enough that people care).

slider has actually improved his mod significantly in the last two versions, so now I'd say it's no longer abusive. I may not agree with his choices stylistically or gameplay wise, but overall it's not the abusable mod it used to be. And the grapple hooks and jetpacks apparently aren't part of the normal gameplay either, but I could be wrong about that.

Also the "infinite force" of which you speak is actually just g_forceregentime. People set it to 0, so your force recharges completely in 5 seconds. This is because a large number of players are extremely lazy, HATING to wait for their force to recharge (they've never heard of "resource management" and "strategy"). You don't need a mod to do this.. and I'd guess that a majority of noob admins do this. I don't know of slider's mod's default config uses below 200 anymore, but it certainly doesn't use 0 anymore (again thanks to people complaining to him).

The forceregentime 0 thing DOES screw up the force balance, it encourages spamming, and makes instant use powers (like lightning, drain, heal, push, pull) much more powerful. People generally HATE spamming and whine about it all the time, and yet they don't realize that their desire for infinite force mana is what creates the problem in the first place! ;)

So yeah, blame the admins now, as really only older versions of JA+ still have the abusive problems.

We could get slider in here to answer your questions personally, but I'm satisfied this is how it is.. from what I know from talking to him and others.

StaffSaberist
11-12-2005, 01:29 PM
JA+ actually makes the game more balanced. The Jetpacks aren't really all that powerful (I have run out of fuel over a cliffside more than once) and Grapple Hooks make you a sitting duck, if you are not careful. :)

ZeroX2
11-12-2005, 01:45 PM
The base game is fine as it is. It doesn't need grapple hooks and the like. At the moment, however, I find myself using Xmod. The abusive commands are silly, but at least I don't have to use them - and Xmod allows you to disable/enable any modification it includes. I just use it for bug fixes and a few minor changes.

El Sitherino
11-12-2005, 05:39 PM
OJP is better for the bug fixes, just to let you know.

Anyway, peolple have pretty much chewed the hell out of the makers of admin mods.

TK-8252
11-12-2005, 06:17 PM
JA+ actually makes the game more balanced. The Jetpacks aren't really all that powerful (I have run out of fuel over a cliffside more than once) and Grapple Hooks make you a sitting duck, if you are not careful. :)

...You've got to be kidding me. Jetpacks and grapple hooks are always used to cheat death. Someone throws you off a ledge? Grapple right back up! Need to run away from that person kicking your ass? Just jetpack away!

Not to mention that any skill required to navigate the map is not used anymore, because instead of planning careful leaps, all you have to do is jetpack and grapple around.

StaffSaberist
11-12-2005, 06:43 PM
I just get blasted in midair when I do that. The Flechette, AKA Jedi-Killer, is a powerful weapon when you are dangling/flyung in midair. I cannot count the times I've been Bowcasted, spiked, or riddled by even Bots when I try that. So I don't try it.

TK-8252
11-12-2005, 06:45 PM
Wait, there's GUNS in JA? Hey, you learn something new everyday...

MxBxZ
11-12-2005, 06:49 PM
StaffSaber, your opinions on this are wrong and you are a newbie

Kurgan
11-12-2005, 07:26 PM
No need to flame. :tsk:

But seriously, JA+ is MORE balanced? Than basejka? I find that hard to believe. After all, he added all those single player moves, which were never intended for online play in the first place (the NPC's don't care if you beat up on them after all), and a jetpack is a serious advantage over a person without one (now if everyone has one fine but bear in mind all but one of the maps were not built with them in mind! if it takes you to heights greater than force jump 3.. forget it).

One can enjoy a mod like that fine, but saying it's more balanced than basejka is highly questionable.

Now you might say, well a jetpack with limited fuel is like force jump with limited mana. Okay, except that you can use it to hover and go much higher than Force Jump 3. If EVERYONE gets one for the whole map, then everyone is still on the same level playing field, so no big deal there. A grapple hook on the other hand.. what limits are there on its use? It seems like you could use that forever...

With those two abilities, what good is using Force Jump anymore?

And each to his own, but those drastically change the gameplay. If a person wants to preserve the dynamic of the original game, they'd want to do without those. But if everyone has both grapple hooks and jetpacks, then the game wouldn't be "More balanced" (assuming it was unbalanced to begin with) because everyone is still on the same level as before (ie: it wouldn't make up for any previous inequalities).

Anyway, JA+ has the "fighting dimension" which is the default. That's where you do everything like basejka. And the admin can send people to the "Honor Dimension" where they play the new JA+ way (with all that stuff). A "punishment" for people who break the honor rules is to send them back to the "normal" dimension.

This is how it's done now, instead of as it was in the past, which was to "punish" people for real or imagined infractions of the "honor rules" (whatever those might be).

Kurgan
11-12-2005, 07:32 PM
The base game is fine as it is. It doesn't need grapple hooks and the like. At the moment, however, I find myself using Xmod. The abusive commands are silly, but at least I don't have to use them - and Xmod allows you to disable/enable any modification it includes. I just use it for bug fixes and a few minor changes.

Agreed with Sith:

OJP > Xmod2

Although Xmod2 surely appeals to some of the disgruntled JK2 purists so they can have their flip kicks and old special move mechanics and damage values and mana-less special moves back. Other than the abusive commands, my only gripe with Xmod2 is the adjustable gun damage values (RedSlushie has the same). While this sounds like a good idea on the surface (wow! fully customizable weapons!), this has the potential for chaos. When one learns how to play a game, one learns how the weapons and stuff work with the overall dynamic. When the weapons are changed in a mod (say like Lugormod or Moviebattles 2, whatever) then you learn a new set of weapons, etc.

But if your mod really could have random weapon values, you have no idea what you're getting into when you join, and you have no way to master things unless you play a lot on the same server (and assuming the admin of that server doesn't just change things again on a whim). Plus they could easily unbalance the game by making pistols uber over all other weapons or something like that. In a gametype like Siege, this would be absolutely horrible and screw the whole thing up. So there's the thing. If you have a mod like that, you have to choose NOT to use certain features in order for it not to suck. Better to just not have those features, because so many admins can't be trusted (unfortunately).

Still, Xmod2 is only used by a few servers, and those people may be truly dedicated (the "noobs" just go for JA+, and that's no longer a criticism of JA+, it's just the truth... because "everyone knows about JA+" so it's always the first one that people choose) and may not "abuse" it. Ditto for Red Slushie. It's just the potential for abuse is high, and that annoys me. If the features aren't helpful, there's no need to have them... anyway, there's my rant for the day. ;)

StaffSaberist
11-12-2005, 08:05 PM
All right, all right! I meant to say more fun. OK? You OK with that? More fun? I like it, OK? We all alright? Thanks Kurgan. I hate flame wars. I could think of a few things to say... forget it. Sorry I made you upset, MxBxZ.

Wait, there's GUNS in JA? Hey, you learn something new everyday...

:lol:

Much as I love the Saber Staff, when you need to take out saberists at long range, how can you compare with the Flechette? Maybe the Stouker or the Heavy Repeater, but the Repeater and Stouker use ammo real fast. And the Jedi-Killer has the ability to throw grenades, which totally beats the others. Even hardcore saberists use guns. There is no other way. When you round a corner and see a huge firefight, do you charge into the middle with a saber? Of course not!

MxBxZ, I am not an expert, true, but let's face it. Jetpacks are too sluggish for my taste (easier to jump) and the Grapple Hook? Please. Riding those is a good invitation to get capped.

Kurgan
11-12-2005, 09:11 PM
All right, all right! I meant to say more fun. OK? You OK with that? More fun? I like it, OK? We all alright? Thanks Kurgan. I hate flame wars. I could think of a few things to say... forget it. Sorry I made you upset, MxBxZ.


Hey, that's all you need to say. ;) I hope I wasn't flaming anybody...

Much as I love the Saber Staff, when you need to take out saberists at long range, how can you compare with the Flechette? Maybe the Stouker or the Heavy Repeater, but the Repeater and Stouker use ammo real fast.


Don't forget the Merr Sonn, though it's more effective at medium range, I agree.

And the Jedi-Killer has the ability to throw grenades, which totally beats the others.

Yeah but they are SO easy to dodge (unless you're a crack shot at medium-close range). You can waste all your ammo and not have a single grenade hit them if they don't want to be hit.

Even hardcore saberists use guns. There is no other way. When you round a corner and see a huge firefight, do you charge into the middle with a saber? Of course not!

Roger that. Hardcore saberists, as opposed to "honorz" saberists, who refuse to use any other weapon, even when it would help them (and often start whining when their saber fails them in those situations!).

MxBxZ, I am not an expert, true, but let's face it. Jetpacks are too sluggish for my taste (easier to jump) and the Grapple Hook? Please. Riding those is a good invitation to get capped.

I think his main concern is that these features allow you to escape falling deaths, and so make the use of Grip and Push necessarily less powerful and advantageous. They also let you save mana by using them to navigate, rather than by use of Jump. They'd making sniping much easier because you could get to those locations much faster.

I know it's a different game, but in Battlefront 2 the flag carrier is unable to use Force Jump or Jetpacks while holding. ;)

ZeroX2
11-12-2005, 09:15 PM
OJP > Xmod2
I love the bug fixes in OJP. While I like the bots in some ways, the way they use katas annoys me a lot. And there are many other forced 'features' that I dislike. As for Xmod, everything is customisable. All I'm using it for are bug fixes, detailed MotD, and one small change (which doesn't really alter gameplay). The thing I like about it is that I can disable other 'features'.

It's just the potential for abuse is high, and that annoys me. If the features aren't helpful, there's no need to have them... anyway, there's my rant for the day. ;)
Agreed. I despise all these abusive commands.

how can you compare with the Flechette? Maybe the Stouker or the Heavy Repeater, but the Repeater and Stouker use ammo real fast. And the Jedi-Killer has the ability to throw grenades, which totally beats the others.
The Flechette, eh? My gun of choice is the Imperial Heavy Repeater. It also has the ability to throw grenades (more or less) - I personally prefer how they explode-on-impact to the Flechette's explode-after-time (if you miss your target). Also, the Repeater can be used at a longer range, while the Flechette is pretty much a close-range weapon. If you're up close, why not use the Saber?

Even hardcore saberists use guns. There is no other way.
Indeed!

When you round a corner and see a huge firefight, do you charge into the middle with a saber? Of course not!
I have seen far too many people do that. They then complain when I gun them down - "dont u want 2 hav fun?? y use big gunz?"

All right, all right! I meant to say more fun. OK? You OK with that? More fun? I like it, OK? We all alright?
I'm sure the changes of JA+ could be fun every now and then, but I find it incredibly annoying how 99% (more or less) of servers use this mod. It's almost impossible to find a good basejka server now - to play the game as it was actually supposed to be played. When I finally do find a basejka server with human players, they end up leaving because I beat them. Very annoying.

Kurgan
11-12-2005, 09:33 PM
I love the bug fixes in OJP. While I like the bots in some ways, the way they use katas annoys me a lot. And there are many other forced 'features' that I dislike. As for Xmod, everything is customisable. All I'm using it for are bug fixes, detailed MotD, and one small change (which doesn't really alter gameplay). The thing I like about it is that I can disable other 'features'.

Yeah, but you gotta admit, kata spam accurately emulates a lot of the styles of some real players we've both met. ;) J/K Anyway, Lath and I have both suggested that Razor improve their move repetoire when he has the time...

Just out of curiosity, which "forced" features are you talking about that you don't like?

Yeah, I like many of the features of Xmod2, it's just that the whole ability to customize EVERYTHING means that you never know what kind of game you're getting when you join. There's such a thing as too much customization. If I shoot somebody and then realize that my gun has been nerfed, then I have to change my entire playing style. And most admins can't be trusted to balance the things well that they suddenly start changing. It would have been more work but what Hex probably should have done is have several "templates" of preset levels of weapons and moves and then let people pick from them, rather than make them all freely adjustable. He could have releasd the source and then people could have modified it in the source to their liking, but it would have stopped every joe admin from deciding to make his favorite gun or move uber and ruin everything else.

The Flechette, eh? My gun of choice is the Imperial Heavy Repeater.

It depends on the situation of course, but I used those two guns much more heavily in JK2 than in JA. In JA you've got the concussion rifle (which, sadly is rare among the maps) and the Merr Sonn, which, thanks to more plentiful ammo, is much more useful a weapon.


It also has the ability to throw grenades (more or less) - I personally prefer how they explode-on-impact to the Flechette's explode-after-time (if you miss your target).

I think you mean to say "splash damage" and I agree. Again, it depends on the situation. The secondary repeater is a lot easier to Force Push back in the attacker's face, but it has a greater chance of hitting something.

Also, the Repeater can be used at a longer range, while the Flechette is pretty much a close-range weapon. If you're up close, why not use the Saber?

Both guns are somewhat crappy over long ranges, because of their decreased accuracy (though the Flechette is probably slightly more accurate over long range, its rate of fire is so much slower... though certainly its grenades can be lobbed over a huge distance with the proper angle).

Why not use the saber? Well, you may not have the time to switch to the saber and use it at the last second, or you may not even have one! (or you might suck with the saber and prefer not to use it over guns, or have sucky defense, etc).

Not using guns and still doing fine is possible, but it's really hard. You have to be #$@% good in order to do rely soley on the saber (and force) vs. people who use everything, unless these people utterly suck. In CTF this is actually quite possible, as a flag carrier, since you're mostly just running around anyway. In Siege this may be your only choice, depending on your class. In FFA with everything on however, it's foolish just to use the saber, because you won't get kills as fast as somebody who can use everything, and you'll fall behind and end up losing (assuming victory is your goal of course!).


I have seen far too many people do that. They then complain when I gun them down - "dont u want 2 hav fun?? y use big gunz?"


Yeah, unfortunately, they've been bitten by the "Jedi never use anything but the saber" brainbug. I mean on the one hand they often say "well sabers make this game unique, I bought this game so I could be a Jedi, blah blah blah" you've heard that argument right? Well, in a way it is mostly true, but on the other hand its perfectly clear that Raven designed this game for more than just saber hacking, so if you play that way you're not actually playing the way it was intended... so one shouldn't whine about it if others don't and spoil their "fun." Such people can (and should) join/host a sabers only server and then they need not worry. ;)

I sometimes feel sorry for these guys and oblige them a saber challenge, after which they usually leave.

I'm sure the changes of JA+ could be fun every now and then, but I find it incredibly annoying how 99% (more or less) of servers use this mod.

Everybody keeps quoting this number, but it's wrong! According to ASE, only 51% of servers use it. The percentage has ranged over the past year anywhere from as high as 60% to as low as 45%. But it's never been 99%!

And people have tried in the past to argue that if you only include "active servers without bots" that JA+ has the 99% figure. But they forget that JA+ has its share of empty or bot ladden servers.

It's almost impossible to find a good basejka server now - to play the game as it was actually supposed to be played.

No it's not. All you have to do is look for a post by "Kurgan" ("Lathain Valtiel"!) look in his sig, and copy the IP down. ;)

Okay, technically it's OJP, not basejka, but the GAMEPLAY (which matters) is basejka and there's no abusive commands or "honorz" there. Meatgrinder is pure non-stop carnage as it was always intended!

When I finally do find a basejka server with human players, they end up leaving because I beat them. Very annoying.

If you find Antilles, OnlyOneCannoli or Lathain Valtiel (or me, on good days, j/k) on our server, you definately won't have them leaving just for being beaten (if you CAN beat them that is, lol!). Vote kicking is disabled, and we have plenty of regulars who can dish it out as well as they take it.

StaffSaberist
11-12-2005, 09:45 PM
I'd be willing to join a server like that. I suppose the secret's out, I'm not very 133t at the game at all. The best way to get good is to play those who are better than you. And not on a server where you are called "pathetic". You may have heard of my recent Team FFA game (to test out if my repaired JA game worked). Right after a fellow Blue Teamer sabered me, I respawned near a Red Team Red stancer. He tried that move where you jump in the air, and land a single chop which hits the ground. I simply Forward-Rolled out of the way, and he calls me pathetic! Ha! That move was pathetic.

Anyway, I sabered him good, and quit. I don't play with those who say phrases like that. But I am far from good. I'd love a chance to get better, and have that person understand that I cannot be expected to be 133t. That would be nice. But I have not had good luck lately. :(

ZeroX2
11-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Anyway, Lath and I have both suggested that Razor improve their move repetoire when he has the time...
I have, too. It would certainly be a great improvement.

Just out of curiosity, which "forced" features are you talking about that you don't like?
I have said this before - things such as TrueView and RGB sabers, which, while you don't have to use them yourself, you have to be in a server where other people can use them. This means that you have to see the RGB sabers - and the TrueView is a potentially gameplay-altering 'feature'. Which I'm uncomfortable with.

Yeah, I like many of the features of Xmod2, it's just that the whole ability to customize EVERYTHING means that you never know what kind of game you're getting when you join. There's such a thing as too much customization.
Indeed. Chances are, I myself wouldn't actually join another Xmod server. But it will have to do for now. I can at least give the player some idea of what they're getting via the server name.

I think you mean to say "splash damage" and I agree. Again, it depends on the situation. The secondary repeater is a lot easier to Force Push back in the attacker's face, but it has a greater chance of hitting something.
Yes. I called it a grenade as I was referring to StaffSaberist's statement that the Flechette's grenade "totally beats the others". Also, a lot of players never manage to Push the orb back. And with the greater chance of hitting, it's great for knocking people off bridges and the like. I personally feel that it's far superior to the Flechette's secondary fire in most situations.

Yeah, unfortunately, they've been bitten by the "Jedi never use anything but the saber" brainbug. I mean on the one hand they often say "well sabers make this game unique, I bought this game so I could be a Jedi, blah blah blah" you've heard that argument right? Well, in a way it is mostly true, but on the other hand its perfectly clear that Raven designed this game for more than just saber hacking, so if you play that way you're not actually playing the way it was intended... so one shouldn't whine about it if others don't and spoil their "fun." Such people can (and should) join/host a sabers only server and then they need not worry. ;)
Indeed.

Everybody keeps quoting this number, but it's wrong! According to ASE, only 51% of servers use it. The percentage has ranged over the past year anywhere from as high as 60% to as low as 45%. But it's never been 99%!
When I said "more or less", I meant that it was a rough estimate (that reminds me, I need to get ASE). As in, the majority of servers use it. If you go and take a look at a random server, chances are, it's JA+.

No it's not. All you have to do is look for a post by "Kurgan" ("Lathain Valtiel"!) look in his sig, and copy the IP down. ;)
OJP isn't basejka. And I meant finding more than one server, as you're supposed to be able to.

Okay, technically it's OJP, not basejka, but the GAMEPLAY (which matters) is basejka and there's no abusive commands or "honorz" there. Meatgrinder is pure non-stop carnage as it was always intended!
Yes, Meatgrinder is a good server. My problem with it is that it doesn't host one dedicated game type (variety is nice, but I'd prefer seperate servers for each gametype). I usually like to play CtF, but when I go to check Meatgrinder, it tends to be hosting Holocron FFA, or Siege. When I wish to play a Siege game, it tends to be hosting TFFA. ;)

If you find Antilles, OnlyOneCannoli or Lathain Valtiel (or me, on good days, j/k) on our server
What name do you play under?

you definately won't have them leaving just for being beaten (if you CAN beat them that is, lol!).
That's great. But I can certainly take on the better players of the game. It would be a nice change to be killed for once.

Vote kicking is disabled, and we have plenty of regulars who can dish it out as well as they take it.
That reminds me about something else that really annoys me on Meatgrinder. The automatic team balancer. But I believe I've brought this up before, so I won't go in to more detail about it.

Lathain Valtiel
11-12-2005, 10:14 PM
I really don't see the problem with the RGB sabers...

"Oh no, they have a pink saber! My game is ruined!" is basically the only way I can see somebody having a problem with it, especially since it doesn't work in team games. It makes no logical sense.

Kurgan
11-12-2005, 10:17 PM
Yeah. I thought perhaps they are movie purists (since these other colors do show up in the EU, except for black)... but even then it doesn't make sense, because the default game sabers are not all from the movies (we never see orange or yellow). So they're JA saber color purists... very strange indeed!

Lathain Valtiel
11-12-2005, 10:19 PM
Pfft, there are great colors not in the movies. Have you ever seen a teal saber? Then again, I may be biased, since strangely only the most wise saberists I've ever seen think of teal (Hail, Blind Moradin! Your skills in Promod will not be forgotten!).

My own personal color saber is in the Lucasfiles ATST Pilot screen, and I dare say it looks nice.

Kurgan
11-12-2005, 10:31 PM
I have said this before - things such as TrueView and RGB sabers, which, while you don't have to use them yourself, you have to be in a server where other people can use them. This means that you have to see the RGB sabers - and the TrueView is a potentially gameplay-altering 'feature'. Which I'm uncomfortable with.

I'm not sure about this, but I thought that you could use TrueView even if you were not on an OJP server, as long as you were running OJP Basic on your end. After all, nobody can tell that you're using first person view but you. And you could use RGB sabers on a non-OJP server, and nobody else would see them but you, at least in theory. Why is TrueView "game altering"? It's merely visual. The camera just zooms in on your blade instead of being pulled back.

In fact, in basejka you can use the cg_fov cvar to change your view already. Change it to a certain low number and it looks pretty darn close to TrueView. The only thing that changes is the "eye position" (vertical, as opposed to straight zooming in like fov, IIRC). So whether you knew it or not, people could already do this before TrueView, it was just more annoying to do it manually.

Indeed. Chances are, I myself wouldn't actually join another Xmod server. But it will have to do for now. I can at least give the player some idea of what they're getting via the server name.

Well the same is true of OJP, and even moreso, since it doesn't let you alter the damage values of the guns. Of course there's only 2 OJP servers, and only 3 Xmod2 servers, with the same number of total players among them.


Yes. I called it a grenade as I was referring to StaffSaberist's statement that the Flechette's grenade "totally beats the others". Also, a lot of players never manage to Push the orb back. And with the greater chance of hitting, it's great for knocking people off bridges and the like. I personally feel that it's far superior to the Flechette's secondary fire in most situations.

I dunno, I see more people pushing the secondary Repeater back than pushing the secondary flechette back. I figure it has something to do with the ease of doing so (and doing so repeatedly). They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I admit that I too favor using a certain set of weapons and powers, but I'll never say that a certain one is "useless" or that one can reasonably rely on just one, unless you're facing noobs. ;)

I just know that when facing decent players, they seem expert at dodging my secondary flechette, but often fall victim to my secondary repeater. Go figure. It could be I just suck with the secondary Flech anymore. ;)



When I said "more or less", I meant that it was a rough estimate (that reminds me, I need to get ASE). As in, the majority of servers use it. If you go and take a look at a random server, chances are, it's JA+.


Get Qtracker. Well, get them both. ;)

51% is a majority, but a very slim one. Not even close to 99%! True it depends on where you live. Maybe in your area, 99% of the servers you can join without major lag ARE JA+. But I'm speaking as a whole, of all the known servers.

OJP isn't basejka. And I meant finding more than one server, as you're supposed to be able to.

Right. basejka is 1.01 with no mods. However, name one instance (other than the new game modes JM, CTY and Holocron!) of changed gameplay in OJP Basic. OJP has 2 servers. ;)

Yes if you want more than one server your choices are more limited, but you still don't have to play just JA+.

Apart from JA+ (the biggest mod), the next biggest number of servers I believe are still basejka.


Yes, Meatgrinder is a good server. My problem with it is that it doesn't host one dedicated game type (variety is nice, but I'd prefer seperate servers for each gametype).

Well that's a problem I guess. We don't have the resources to host 6-10 servers. Who does? But name a gametype we don't cover (other than the two dueling gametypes). In fact, we make an extra effort to cover the gametypes that most other servers ignore. So I figure we offer a little something unique, even while we preserve the core gameplay.

I usually like to play CtF, but when I go to check Meatgrinder, it tends to be hosting Holocron FFA, or Siege. When I wish to play a Siege game, it tends to be hosting TFFA. ;)

Ask me in private and I'll send you a list of the current map cycle. You'll always know when to come in for CTF! Due to feedback we've actually limited our CTF much more than before. It used to have a much higher capture limit and longer time limit, but some people got bored I guess. We had to dumb it down for the noobies, mostly. ;) People got so intimidated by the hardcore CTFers that would dominate.


What name do you play under?


Kurgan, unless I'm lurking, and then you never know!


That's great. But I can certainly take on the better players of the game. It would be a nice change to be killed for once.


Oh believe me, you'll get killed on Meatgrinder, a lot! Unless you play at some weird hours the rest of us don't.


That reminds me about something else that really annoys me on Meatgrinder. The automatic team balancer. But I believe I've brought this up before, so I won't go in to more detail about it.

Yeah, we've all asked Razor about that. He's working on it. I can actually turn it off. But I figure I get more whines with it off then with it on, so I choose the lesser of two evils. ;)

Lathain Valtiel
11-12-2005, 10:41 PM
Actually, we do have Power Duel on occassionally... But only when what's currently happening becomes damn boring.

Interestyingly enough, we usually get a number of people who come on at PowerDuel, and stick around for, say, Siege.

StaffSaberist
11-12-2005, 10:57 PM
Wow, I started a weapons debate! Cool! :cool: But yeah, when you see a large weapons conflict, best thing to do is back off to a side-path and gun your way to the top of the food chain. :D

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 02:13 AM
Honestly the biggest problem with the auto switcher is that it wipes out your score. If it didn't do that (say if it just subtracted one or zero points), people would be a lot less likely to complain. I've told Razor this, but I guess he's got too much else to do.
;)

What really needs to be done is it needs to be fixed, but that could be a nice way to ease the transition until it's completed. I know some other mods have added the feature (what happens to your score when you're switched).

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 08:38 AM
I would like a mod that fixes a couple of things:

1) In Duel maps, my name will jump 7 spots on the waiting list, then get stuck there until I would normally move. It's kinda odd, and I'll get banned off a game for it one of these days.

2) I'd like to have the Bots play a little more like humans online do. I mean, they never use Grip! Imperial Officer barely uses a lightsaber, he just throws thermal detonators, even when I'm hacking away with the Saber Staff. So we both blow up. The JA version of the suicide bomber... :D

Not really a bug fix, but I always thought Det Packs were weak, since you have to keep them out to detonate, making you a frag target. I'd like those Dets to be Proximity Mines, instead. That would also make players think twice before laying multiple ones down next to each other...

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 09:39 AM
So they're JA saber color purists... very strange indeed!
Strange, but true. Would it really be so difficult to add a cvar to disable RGB sabers, though? And what about the 'pimp' saber - does that really have to be there?

Why is TrueView "game altering"? It's merely visual. The camera just zooms in on your blade instead of being pulled back.
It alters the view. I know I'm being really picky about this, but if it alters the view, it's possible (however unlikely), that the player will get a better picture of what's going on, therefore giving him/her an advantage. I don't like that. I just like simple basejka abilities.

In fact, in basejka you can use the cg_fov cvar to change your view already.
Indeed. I always have it set to 97. Most people don't know of that cvar, though.

Get Qtracker. Well, get them both. ;)
Is QTracker better? Or just different?

Oh believe me, you'll get killed on Meatgrinder, a lot! Unless you play at some weird hours the rest of us don't.
Good. I've noticed that most of the time, when I check the player list on Meatgrinder, there are only 0-3 humans, though. That reminds me - another thing I dislike about Meatgrinder is the random ping for bots setting. It just annoys me. >_>

Honestly the biggest problem with the auto switcher is that it wipes out your score. If it didn't do that (say if it just subtracted one or zero points), people would be a lot less likely to complain. I've told Razor this, but I guess he's got too much else to do.
;)

What really needs to be done is it needs to be fixed, but that could be a nice way to ease the transition until it's completed. I know some other mods have added the feature (what happens to your score when you're switched).
Xmod adds that feature. It's not the score that annoys me, though. I don't care what my score is in a CTF game - it's working as a team that counts. I dislike how the team balancer seems to unbalance the teams a lot. For example, we might have an equal number of bots and humans, and an equal score. Suddenly I'll get switched from the team I've been playing with, lose the flag, and suddenly spawn on the other team. Very, very annoying. I then switch back, as I like to play with the team I've been playing with the whole game. I get switched again.

I would like a mod that fixes a couple of things:

1) In Duel maps, my name will jump 7 spots on the waiting list, then get stuck there until I would normally move. It's kinda odd, and I'll get banned off a game for it one of these days.
I don't know what the problem is there. Strange.

2) I'd like to have the Bots play a little more like humans online do. I mean, they never use Grip! Imperial Officer barely uses a lightsaber, he just throws thermal detonators, even when I'm hacking away with the Saber Staff. So we both blow up. The JA version of the suicide bomber... :D
I don't think I've seen any mod that allows bots to use Grip. Even the TAB bots in OJP don't - in fact, they don't seem to use any force powers. As for the Thermal Detonators - that's just set by the bot's personality file. Take a look at the weapon weights. Modify it in another pk3 if you want to change it.

Not really a bug fix, but I always thought Det Packs were weak, since you have to keep them out to detonate, making you a frag target. I'd like those Dets to be Proximity Mines, instead. That would also make players think twice before laying multiple ones down next to each other...
Detonation Packs are incredible weapons! If you want proximity mines, just use the Trip Mines secondary fire. Detonation Packs are for laying traps in advance, which is good for protecting the flag.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 10:11 AM
Hm. Never thought of that last one. Dets aren't so good for FFA, but if you have a team base to protect, yeah, that'd work.

Trip mine secondary. Whoops, forgot about it. I don't take the time to use mines that much. Either I saber or I gun. :rifle1: :lsduel: FFA is a bit hectic for that, and you can't do it at all in Duels.

I'm not sure how to modify a personality file - I'm still learning to map. But I'll look for it. If I could get a Bot to use Grip, that'd be great. I mean, how many times have I played FFA, only to be choked to death by the enemy? A harsh reminder to invest in Absorb, even at the expense of Protect...

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 10:45 AM
A harsh reminder to invest in Absorb, even at the expense of Protect...
I don't actually find Protect that useful. If you're fighting a dark-sider, Protect is just asking for trouble. Force Drain can suck away all your force, leaving you vulnerable, and ending your Protect. But it is great for surviving falls, traps, and for mine-jumping.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 11:13 AM
Or, if you see a group of enemies fighting, and you decide you will win that fight. Quickly turn on Protect, charge in, use the Staff a little, and you are 3+ kills higher. :)

MxBxZ
11-13-2005, 01:13 PM
No need to flame.

Kurgan I think we both know the drill at this point. I make a couple brilliant posts, then insult a moderator and get banned. Around six months later I get bored and make a proxy and repeat.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 01:17 PM
There is a such thing as an IP block, ya know...

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Strange, but true. Would it really be so difficult to add a cvar to disable RGB sabers, though? And what about the 'pimp' saber - does that really have to be there?

There are rumors you can do the pimp saber with scripting, even without the mod. So it may be a "basejka problem."


It alters the view. I know I'm being really picky about this, but if it alters the view, it's possible (however unlikely), that the player will get a better picture of what's going on, therefore giving him/her an advantage. I don't like that. I just like simple basejka abilities.


That's silly, it sounds like paranoia! I mean, you'd have to stop people from using cg_fov too, which is in basejka. I can bind a key to "zoom in" already. I don't need any mods for that. So why is this wrong?

The only reason that Raven didn't put a first person saber into JA (LIKE THEY DID INTO JK2, both mp AND sp) is because they didn't want to take the extra time to mod in every single combination of arm textures they'd need to make it "look right" with the custom Jedi. However, they never considered (apparently) the possibility of doing it like TrueView, which is just to zoom in to the "eye position" of each model. They were planning to do it the way they did it in JK2, which was to have the internal saber model be two floating forearms with an invisible body, holding the saber. Check out JK2 sometime. Why is it okay to have first person saber there, but not in JA? The only difference is that you can see the rest of your body now (so you actually have less viewspace!).

Indeed. I always have it set to 97. Most people don't know of that cvar, though.

Ah, so you're "cheating" already. So it's hypocritical for you to condemn the use of TrueView. ;)


Is QTracker better? Or just different?


Different. It's completely free, so no nag screens to register it (you can register if you want, out of the goodness of your heart by sending Ron some money, but the program doesn't bug you and it's not limited in any way). It doesn't show a number total for servers or players (ASE's "stats"). But it does have mapshots for most games (and you can make your own for ones that are missing or download them when they're completed). It has support for a lot more games (ASE only seems to cover really popular recent ones) including many classics that didn't have dedicated server support (but if you're following a specific IP or LAN game you can see it or launch it from QT). Oh that's another thing, I'm not sure you can launch servers with ASE, but you definately can with QT (and it'll appear on the QT uplink "master server").

As far as the number of servers they both grab about the same. QT also has support for "shoutcast" so you can listen to your mp3 radio with it (though he needs to update his list, mostly techno/trance/jazz last time I checked, though there's other stuff in there too).

Good. I've noticed that most of the time, when I check the player list on Meatgrinder, there are only 0-3 humans, though. That reminds me - another thing I dislike about Meatgrinder is the random ping for bots setting. It just annoys me. >_>

You must check at bad times. I usually see at least six people in there, and many times I've checked and had like 10 or 12 people playing CTF or Holocron. Random ping bots were purposely put into this mod to annoy you. I hope they continue to do so... ;)


Xmod adds that feature. It's not the score that annoys me, though. I don't care what my score is in a CTF game - it's working as a team that counts. I dislike how the team balancer seems to unbalance the teams a lot. For example, we might have an equal number of bots and humans, and an equal score. Suddenly I'll get switched from the team I've been playing with, lose the flag, and suddenly spawn on the other team.

How does it unbalance the teams? There is actually a cvar in there so that it will sometimes give a team that's behind an extra person. Personally I don't like to do that, but setting 4 doesn't leave you much choice (I think Razor should fix this). Without setting 4, it won't balance the teams with bots and humans. Meaning you could have all the humans but one on one team and then the other guy is forced to use bots for his teammates.

It's designed now to switch bots before it switches humans, and to switch the new people before veterans and the low scorers before the high scorers. And it should never switch you when you have the flag. If it's STILL doing that, let me know and we'll bug razor some more!

The score thing I mentioned because that's what most people moan about. Usually you get people who just ignore the text message and continually try to switch back for like 5 minutes before complaining though.


Very, very annoying. I then switch back, as I like to play with the team I've been playing with the whole game. I get switched again.


Well what did you expect? That you could beat the switcher by switching? Everybody tries that, because few people want to leave the winning team... well except the noobs we're doing a favor because they don't know how (and often can't be bothered to learn) to switch teams.

Without the team switcher we had people going "teams! teams!" constantly, and people going "omg you only won 'cause you had two more people, nice teams #$@#$" and of course you had people joining the winning team always, or a group of clan guys always banding together no matter what, etc. it just wasn't fun. What's the point of a team game if one team is always way larger than the other or one guy is alone with a team of bots vs. a bunch of others? I WISH I could rely on people to have balanced teams and switch when they needed to, but 6 months of hosting a team based server taught me that most people just don't get it. It's like voting on the server. A fantastic idea, but its too often abused.


I don't think I've seen any mod that allows bots to use Grip. Even the TAB bots in OJP don't - in fact, they don't seem to use any force powers. As for the Thermal Detonators - that's just set by the bot's personality file. Take a look at the weapon weights. Modify it in another pk3 if you want to change it.

Honestly the TAB bots currently use LESS force than the basejka bots. That's something razor needs to work on if they're going to be any challenge at all. They use Katas, they occasionally use saber throw (by accident), they use the push/pull "block" (which is automatic if they have it anyway), speed, and of course Jump. Nothing else. I distinctly remember the basejka bots used lightning. I can't recall if they used push/pull or if I'm just remembering the AI from SP. In any case, they are better in many ways their their basejka counterparts, but in other ways worse. The biggest advantage of them right now is that they can play Siege and win without help (well except for Hoth).


Detonation Packs are incredible weapons! If you want proximity mines, just use the Trip Mines secondary fire. Detonation Packs are for laying traps in advance, which is good for protecting the flag.

Exactly.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 01:31 PM
Kurgan, the Bots in baseJAMP use Lightning and Drain. LS characters (Like Alora, surprisingly) use Protect, Absorb, Mind Trick, etc. No Bots I know of use Grip, Pull or Push (Though they will use Push if I Grip them)

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 01:44 PM
Okay thanks. I haven't played with generic bots in so long I've forgotten some of that stuff. And the TAB bots DO still use push to counter grip, forgot to mention that.

Obviously we'd want to the bots to at least be able to use the powers they could use before. Razor says it's "tricky" to get them to use force at all. I told him that instant use powers would seem to be the easiest to start with, powers like Team Heal/Energize (that should be automatic on team maps), and heal. Lightning would be a priority too I would think. ;)

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 01:51 PM
There are rumors you can do the pimp saber with scripting, even without the mod. So it may be a "basejka problem."
I'm pretty sure you can't do that with basejka, as you cannot repeatedly 'spam' the console command.

But it does have mapshots for most games (and you can make your own for ones that are missing or download them when they're completed). It has support for a lot more games (ASE only seems to cover really popular recent ones) including many classics that didn't have dedicated server support (but if you're following a specific IP or LAN game you can see it or launch it from QT). Oh that's another thing, I'm not sure you can launch servers with ASE, but you definately can with QT (and it'll appear on the QT uplink "master server").
I think I'll just get QTracker then.

You must check at bad times. I usually see at least six people in there, and many times I've checked and had like 10 or 12 people playing CTF or Holocron. Random ping bots were purposely put into this mod to annoy you. I hope they continue to do so... ;)
I check fairly often, and it always has around the same number of people. And what's the point in annoying players? >_> All random ping bots do is confuse beginner players (sometimes they have conversations with them!), and make it seem like there are more players on the server. I'd actually like to be able to instantly see who the bots are and what teams they're on. It is a pointless feature.

If it's STILL doing that, let me know and we'll bug razor some more!
It certainly was doing that last time I was there.

Well what did you expect? That you could beat the switcher by switching?
I will not be beaten! >_>

I would simply like it to be less strict.

I distinctly remember the basejka bots used lightning. I can't recall if they used push/pull or if I'm just remembering the AI from SP.
They did.

Kurgan, the Bots in baseJAMP use Lightning and Drain. LS characters (Like Alora, surprisingly) use Protect, Absorb, Mind Trick, etc. No Bots I know of use Grip, Pull or Push (Though they will use Push if I Grip them)
They can use Push/Pull when not Gripped, definately. My 'perfect' bot does it so often that it's annoying. I believe basejka bots can use every force power, except Grip and perhaps Dark Rage.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 02:10 PM
baseJAMP bots use Rage, just only for a few seconds.

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 02:28 PM
I'm pretty sure you can't do that with basejka, as you cannot repeatedly 'spam' the console command.


Could be. So you can do it, but in a much more limited fashion. Maybe. ;)

It's sort of like having black names. Does that annoy you as well? It's something available in the game, and simply expanded upon by many mods. And yet it doesn't affect gameplay, so what's the big deal?


I check fairly often, and it always has around the same number of people. And what's the point in annoying players? >_> All random ping bots do is confuse beginner players (sometimes they have conversations with them!), and make it seem like there are more players on the server. I'd actually like to be able to instantly see who the bots are and what teams they're on. It is a pointless feature.

Well whatever. Sometimes we have tons of people, sometimes we have very few. It's just your luck I guess. And some gametypes are more popular than others. JM used to be really popular for us, then it fell in popularity and Holocron rose up. CTF used to be unpopular but it's gotten much more popular. Siege remains pretty much the #1 gametype for us in terms of attracting people. I think perhaps once people see how much fun something can be, they come back for more. That's why we've put in TFFA to try to encourage people to play that sadly neglected gametype. About the only gametype that hasn't seemed to have caught on is CTY. You've never seen the kind of whining and piss/moaning as when that gametype is going the first time somebody grabs the flag. ;) Oh well. Then again we haven't really tried to force feed it to them much in the past (usually just one slipped into the CTF cycle).


It certainly was doing that last time I was there.

The mod was last updated in October IIRC. Were you there since then?


I will not be beaten! >_>

I would simply like it to be less strict.


Everybody thinks that. ;) Then they try swearing at it.

How would you make it less strict? It's already on a 30 second delay, and a person is switched for their low time/score. There's not much else to it. As for being switched why carrying something, that should never happen, so that's something that Razor needs to fix. Other than preventing bugs (like the same person being switched back and forth from one team to the other) and removing the "score nuking" I can't see it really changing much. Though I would personally like to have it switch based on balance (and NOT on score) and on human/bots. Switching based on one team being ahead is a bit annoying for me (but some people think it's "more sporting" oh well).

For me I don't care if one team is owning, so long as the teams have an equal number of human players (as much as possible anyway).


They did.


They can use Push/Pull when not Gripped, definately. My 'perfect' bot does it so often that it's annoying. I believe basejka bots can use every force power, except Grip and perhaps Dark Rage.

Okay. Yeah, that's a shame. I want the bots to be able to do everything a human can do (that's the point right?) and be smart. ;)

I had some kick a$$ bots back in the day too, and I used them on meatgrinder all the time. TAB bots are still an improvement because they can do things that basejka bots can't do, even with decent routing and bot AI files. They can complete objectives, use classes and do katas. ;)

Their ability to recieve orders, use vehicles and use voice chat are obviously still very preliminary, but it's a start!

But I think you're right, in FFA you're probably better off having tweaked basejka bots (re-routed, custom bot AI files). At least for now...

Come to think of it, OJP Basic does have the ability to use multiple bot types on the same server (ie: you can use basejka bots). I don't know the exact command though...

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 03:47 PM
The mod was last updated in October IIRC. Were you there since then?
I believe so.

Though I would personally like to have it switch based on balance (and NOT on score) and on human/bots. Switching based on one team being ahead is a bit annoying for me (but some people think it's "more sporting" oh well).

For me I don't care if one team is owning, so long as the teams have an equal number of human players (as much as possible anyway).
Agreed.

Another thing that I really dislike on Meatgrinder is the g_debugmelee 1 setting. With that setting, you can't do wall-jumps properly. And I use those a lot.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 03:52 PM
Whoa, a lot happened in the last hour! Looks like MxBxZ got banned, and I didn't have to start a flame war for callling me a n00b. Three cheers for the Jedi Way!

I don't like g_debugmelee either. It does kinda mess up some anims, and it got me killed once. I was trying to grab the walls to get down without killing myself, and it wouldn't grab right. I got thrown down and lost the 4 HP I had left. (I was trying a daring escape after a Heavy Stancer got a good hit on me.) I turned of debugmelee, and poof! Good escape back. :)

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 04:16 PM
Yeah, g_debugmelee 1 adds kicks (and possibly grapples - I can't remember) to the Melee weapon. But it also changes the 'Force Wall Jump' to a Spiderman-like wall grip - so you can stick there for as long as you wish, but then you cannot Force Jump from that position (only fall down). Honestly, how often can you hide on a wall, completely vulnerable, without somebody seeing you and killing you? Also, it takes away the advantage of the kick from the Saber Staff. I really hate that setting.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 04:20 PM
The effects for it look cool, but they don't really add that much to the game. =/

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 05:00 PM
I got QTracker! It seems pretty good, so thanks Kurgan. Though I did have to fix the included JA filters and copy/modify the JO ones to allow me to view the 'hidden' game types.

Edit: Hmm, I can't find Meatgrinder with it. >_> And the 'filter folders' don't seem to pick up any servers, yet the filters work when I enable/disable them via the Servers>Filters>Game... menu.

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 06:34 PM
You can always put the IP in manually. Sometimes we don't show up on the main server list. I don't know why...

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 06:36 PM
So... all QTracker does is locate games? doesn't the Join Game menu do that?

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 06:44 PM
Yes, Debugmelee adds kicks, grapples and lets Jedi hang on a wall forever if they wish.

You guys complaining about g_debugmelee don't have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun). Honestly it does NOT "screw up" wall jumps, that's your imagination. You just have to let go immediately rather than holding the button down, if you want to do them like you did before. Does it throw your timing off? Oh boo hoo, all you have to do is let go of the button. ;)

You still launch yourself off (if you have enough mana left). So I don't see how this is a problem for anyone.

And don't whine that it "takes away the advantage of the kick from staff."

Let's face it, the only other folks who will have kick besides you staff users are people with MELEE (ie: no saber). Are they really a serious threat to you because they can also kick? Gimme a break!

This is just low level nitpicking. If I didn't know better I'd think you were just looking for excuses not to show up at our server. ;)

Clearly there's no pleasing you. You want debugmelee gone, you want the team balancer gone, you want only one game type. Gee, how boring! The way I see it there's plenty of other servers that can cater to your needs if you don't like our's. I'm not offended by criticism, I just don't see the logic in these, no offense!

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 06:49 PM
So... all QTracker does is locate games? doesn't the Join Game menu do that?

I'm sure you can come up with a good answer if you think for abit about it.

From the Qtracker website (http://www.qtracker.com):

Qtracker

Game server browser that will help you play games on the Internet or at the local LAN party. Supports nearly all the most popular FPS games, such as: America's Army, Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 2, F.E.A.R., Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Quake 3 and 4, and Unreal Tournament 2004. Over 90 games are supported!

Primary features:

- Find your friends and/or clanmates using PlayerWatch.
- Color-coded player "fun names" using the in-game fonts.
- Mapshots show a small image of the level being played.
- Server list generation in HTML or PHP, including URL-based server launching.
- FAST querying.
- Skinnable PlayerWatch window, and customizable menus and toolbars.
- Server-side filters.

And tons more.

Yes, QT does far more than just locate games. Check the website and/or documentation for details. It's a very useful program. The Q3 built in server browser is pretty limited, after all... once you step outside it, you'll see a whole world of flexibility open up for you.

Anyway, you have nothing to lose by trying it, and you don't have to if you don't want to. ;)

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 06:55 PM
You can always put the IP in manually. Sometimes we don't show up on the main server list. I don't know why...
I tried that. It didn't work.

You guys complaining about g_debugmelee don't have a leg to stand on (pardon the pun). Honestly it does NOT "screw up" wall jumps, that's your imagination. You just have to let go immediately rather than holding the button down, if you want to do them like you did before. Does it throw your timing off? Oh boo hoo, all you have to do is let go of the button. ;)
Oh? I've tried this several times. How exactly do you pull of the Force Jump from it? With g_debugmelee 1, you have to release the jump button to come off the wall. Releasing the jump button at any time completely ends the jump, meaning you cannot Force Jump yourself through the air. You simply fall.

You want debugmelee gone, you want the team balancer gone
I don't want the balancer gone. I just want it to work well if it's going to be used. It clearly has many bugs that need to be ironed out.

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 07:00 PM
I tried that. It didn't work.


It has to, unless you've blocked us with your firewall. There's something wrong on your end if it doesn't, and I don't know what, I'm afraid.


Oh? I've tried this several times. How exactly do you pull of the Force Jump from it?

Show me a video of it. It seems to work for me, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. I don't recall "falling" off of any walls.


I don't want the balancer gone. I just want it to work well if it's going to be used. It clearly has many bugs that need to be ironed out.

So do we. This server is for testing the beta mod, after all. ;)

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 07:03 PM
d/ling now. It does appear to be better, I'll try it... :)

EDIT - I found one FFA game with a Ping of 250. Not so good. =/

EDIT II - Never mind... :D

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 07:13 PM
Show me a video of it. It seems to work for me, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. I don't recall "falling" off of any walls.
How about screenshots?

Normal wall jump:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/fusionxx/shot0071.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/fusionxx/shot0072.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/fusionxx/shot0073.jpg

Debug wall jump:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/fusionxx/shot0075.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/fusionxx/shot0076.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/fusionxx/shot0077.jpg

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 07:16 PM
Those are a little dark...

ZeroX2
11-13-2005, 07:19 PM
You must have a low brightness setting on your monitor. ;)

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 07:27 PM
Yep, some airhead set it to 22.

BTW, Kurgan, I've been trying to get QTracker to work. When I click Connect, I get an error message saying it cannot find the file specified. Why not?

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 07:48 PM
Yep, some airhead set it to 22.

BTW, Kurgan, I've been trying to get QTracker to work. When I click Connect, I get an error message saying it cannot find the file specified. Why not?

I don't know. Ask the author (Ron Mercer). Qtracker works fine for me.

If you want, I can give you his ICQ contact (I'm sure he won't mind).

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 07:52 PM
Um... okay. I did find another forum after I posted, so I'll take the ICQ and see if I get answers from there. Then, if it doesn't work out on the forums, I'll ask (nicely) what the problem is. :)

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 08:00 PM
Yeah, I forgot there was a Qtracker forum. ;)

I'm sorry it's not working for you, but I honestly don't know the answer. I mean, assuming you installed the right file.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 08:06 PM
There's a wrong file? What could I be missing? I got the Full Install, after all.

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 09:06 PM
Perhaps it's due to your screwy install of JA...?

It may be looking for a registry entry that you don't have if you just copied all the files from your CD.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 09:14 PM
That may be the problem. I guess that makes me (in)famous. Ah, at least I have an idea of what to do when I get a new computer...

*adds QTracker to a long list of downloads/installs/upgrades*

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 09:20 PM
What I don't understand is.. why you couldn't remove JA completely from your computer and then reinstall it with the patch.

I mean your discs were legit, and you were using a registry scanner to clean up any traces of the program that would make your computer think it was still installed.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 09:25 PM
My computer is more outrageous than I am. And I am known for pretty outrageous statements:

Are you nuttier than a fruitcake?

My computer is cheap, therefore it is substandard. I have a 2.6 gHz CPU, for example, but my CPU maxes out when I open a folder. If I can do those crazy things, and have a 256 MB Graphics Card act like a 128 MB... it wouldn't surprise me if the Registry was f----- up too. >:-(

And Add/Remove Programs did say there was 5 MB left. I don't see how, I eradicated it in my anger.

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 09:34 PM
If I were you I'd do the following:

1) Get a good spyware remover like LavaSoft Adaware and Spybot (or both, preferably).

Scan your system and remove any crap.

2) Get a good registry clear (like Registry Mechanic.. it's worth it to buy it since you'll use it a lot!) and clean up your registry (after backing it up of course) and fix all problems.

3) Get a decent virus scanner (like McAfee), even if it's just a trial, whatever (long as it's up to date), but scan your entire system and remove any viruses.

4) Get the latest official video card drivers from the manufacturer's website.

5) Get any necessary windows updates from microsoft.

After all that, reboot. When you come back, and the dust has cleared, try to get your game running again.

It may take awhile to go through all five steps, but better now than never. It may just give you the boost you need by clearing up the most common pc problems people have these days (since you said you had plenty of free disk space).

You might even consider running windows scandisk and correcting any errors on your hard drive, but this could take a long long time (and you can't use your PC during it or have stuff running in the background that would screw up the test/fix).

You need not necessarily buy a new computer, just do a system backup and then reformat, and reinstall everything you need on a fresh slate.

PS: Does your PC ever overheat? Perhaps you need to open up your case and get a box fan blowing on the inside to cool the components. I know many systems run hot and that affects performance, especially in gaming.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 09:47 PM
Not only does my box have a fan, but my video card has a fan. I don't need a new computer, want one.

Dare to compare! My current system:

CPU: 2.6 gHz
Vid Card: 256 MB
Memory: 512 MB
15" monitor
I am using my boombox/stereo as speakers (my dad knows how to solder)
Hard Drive: 80 GB

The system I want (for $1000)

CPU: 2.8 gHz
Vid Card: 512 MB - 1 GB
Memory: 2 GB
17" monitor
7.1 Surround Sound, which I am getting for X-mas. (Imagine JA on that...)
Hard Drive: a whopping 200 GB.

I have Norton Internet Security and AntiVirus. I do run those. Surprisingly, all I get is the occasional adware. Surprising, considering the dozens of downloads. And if I haven't updated my nVidia drivers time and again, like once a few months...

JA works OK for now, and I can get servers where I am (though most are honorz JA+) so I'm OK for now. But I still will want to get it fixed. Besides, that gives me time to train myself with Jedi Master bots, the closest I can get to humans without the humiliation that comes with losing half the time. Bots don't make fun of you. ;)

Kurgan
11-13-2005, 10:47 PM
Why only get an incremental improvement though? You could just upgrade for cheap. ;)

Your current comp is better than mine (2.0 ghz, everything else is double what I've got, except I have a 19in monitor and my hdd is 120 gig), so you shouldn't have a problem!

Norton kinda sucks, but their internet security might be good. I just know when I had system works and antivirus it was really bloated and missed stuff. Plus it only lasts a year before you have to buy it again.. ;P

At least if you're going to play with basejka bots, get DDS-Rerouted and DDS-Ibots, which make the bots competant. The basejka bots just flat out suck, jedi master or not. You can find the files on LucasFiles.com ;)

Oh, and these bots will make fun of you.

StaffSaberist
11-13-2005, 11:14 PM
These new bots? So, if they try to do that Red Stance only Jump-to-top-down hack, and I roll out of the way, will they call me pathetic? I'll d/l it, but the first time they swear they're coming off. :)

And I am buying a new one because I got all that stuff on the cheap. Computer, Monitor, Printer, Mouse, Keyboard, Speakers, DVD-Rom and CD RW... all $400. Everything is substandard, and works half the time. :(

EDIT:

A quick JA Death Star FFA with 6 opponents... that was one hell of a session. My finger still hurts from the mouse button... and the phrases were AWESOME!!! My favorite was Rosh: I talk to much and I am annoying. Damn, the modder hated Rosh... :lol: :rofl:

This is still a little on the incredible side, though. 7 minutes and 19-7... tsk.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5310/shot00350gu.jpg

Kurgan
11-14-2005, 12:23 AM
See, it's fun! ;)

Awesomely, I see you're playing the JKII FFA map pack. ;)

That makes one person we can invite to meatgrinder when we're running that!

thehomicidalegg
11-14-2005, 01:42 AM
ive experienced the wall grip/jump problem too.... i could never jump up from pits/ledges on the meatgrinder, but instead of disabling debugmelee, is it possible for the OJP to fix this?

Another thing, the autobalancing script has a bug which can be extremely annoying sometimes.... (i'm not sure how it starts, but) when there is just 1 human player ingame, and the team is somehow split 4-3(where the human is on the team of 3 players) at the time of say a 2nd human player joins, he will be constantly switched between the 2 teams while the bots remain the same. (ideally 1 of the bots on the team of 4 would join the team of 3), this happened to me about 4 or 5 times in the last couple of months

StaffSaberist
11-14-2005, 10:08 AM
See, it's fun!

Yep. I never knew there were so many ways to spell "n00b". Or is it "noob"? Or "newb"? Or maybe "nub"? I've never seen them switch weapons on me before. I was playing Yavin CTF and this guy had the Disruptor across the middle bridge. I dodge left and right, feeling awesome... then the bot rockets me. My corpse flies high into the air with the greatest of ease... the daring dead guy on the rocket trail...

Awesomely, I see you're playing the JKII FFA map pack.

That makes one person we can invite to meatgrinder when we're running that!


Lemme train myself a bit better. I'm none too great just yet, I think my 17-9 score was on Padawan or something. Darn thing got reset... but I'll be happy to play online with Meatgrinder after I get my faster system, so I can play at 1024 X 768! :D

ZeroX2
11-14-2005, 12:53 PM
So Kurgan, what do you have to say about the g_debugmelee 1? I'd certainly like to know how it's possible to do a normal wall jump with that setting.

Kurgan
11-14-2005, 03:23 PM
ive experienced the wall grip/jump problem too.... i could never jump up from pits/ledges on the meatgrinder, but instead of disabling debugmelee, is it possible for the OJP to fix this?

That's a good idea actually. I would willingly part with the infinite wall grab in exchange for the grapples and kicks, which is all I really want.

Say he could split the cvar into levels, like one level is the grab only, two is the grapples+kicks only, three is both and of course 0 is off. That would be pretty neat!

Or if this "wall force jump" thing is as you guys claim, perhaps Razor could just fix that part of it.

On the other hand could one look at this as a balancing feature? Ie: make the wall grab "weaker" in distance, to make up for infinite hang? I dunno, I swore it was the same before you guys pointed it out. ;P


Another thing, the autobalancing script has a bug which can be extremely annoying sometimes.... (i'm not sure how it starts, but) when there is just 1 human player ingame, and the team is somehow split 4-3(where the human is on the team of 3 players) at the time of say a 2nd human player joins, he will be constantly switched between the 2 teams while the bots remain the same. (ideally 1 of the bots on the team of 4 would join the team of 3), this happened to me about 4 or 5 times in the last couple of months

Weird. Well all I can say is I hope Razor can get it fixed, and he knows what you're talking about. Everyone is annoyed with the balancer not being perfect, myself included, but what can you do? He's the only one who can fix it.

Kurgan
11-14-2005, 03:28 PM
So Kurgan, what do you have to say about the g_debugmelee 1? I'd certainly like to know how it's possible to do a normal wall jump with that setting.

When I get a chance I'll just need to do some testing until I'm satisfied that it's really screwed up. And I'll talk to Razorace about it.

ZeroX2
11-14-2005, 03:53 PM
When I get a chance I'll just need to do some testing until I'm satisfied that it's really screwed up. And I'll talk to Razorace about it.
Right, thanks. It really annoys me - as I find myself using that move often, only for it to not work properly and end up killing me. >_>

razorace
11-14-2005, 06:38 PM
But if your mod really could have random weapon values, you have no idea what you're getting into when you join, and you have no way to master things unless you play a lot on the same server (and assuming the admin of that server doesn't just change things again on a whim).
That's exactly why I don't have toggles for every feature in OJP.

I have said this before - things such as TrueView and RGB sabers, which, while you don't have to use them yourself, you have to be in a server where other people can use them. This means that you have to see the RGB sabers - and the TrueView is a potentially gameplay-altering 'feature'. Which I'm uncomfortable with.
I've yet to see a rgbsaber on the meatgrider and it's been online for months. As for TrueView, I'm confused as to how this alters the gameplay. All it does is change your point of view.

Honestly the biggest problem with the auto switcher is that it wipes out your score.
I'm not sure how I want to change that as it could cause the team scores/autobalancer to really flip out. I've retooled how the balancer picks which player to move so it should be much more consistant with moving the bots instead of players. I don't think I've updated the server with that yet thou.

Good. I've noticed that most of the time, when I check the player list on Meatgrinder, there are only 0-3 humans, though. That reminds me - another thing I dislike about Meatgrinder is the random ping for bots setting. It just annoys me. >_>
Yeah, the meatgrinder population does vary a lot. I suspect it's normally the gametype playing that attracts or repels users. I haven't bothered to analyse our game logs about that.

As for the random ping for bots, it appears to make people happier about playing the bots. Many people are strictly anti-bot, no matter how good they are. As such, people will happily play against TABBots if they think they are humans. Strange, but true.

Even the TAB bots in OJP don't - in fact, they don't seem to use any force powers.
TABbots do use force powers. It's just that their force powering abilities are limited to the few powers that I've been able to program into the system.

Unfortunately most of the force powers involve a LOT of situational logic to be able to use properly like a human would. I simply haven't been able to deduce that logic yet, and noone has provided help in that area.

StaffSaberist
11-14-2005, 07:03 PM
Sorry to butt in like this, but is there a mod that makes it so when your weapon is pulled away, you automatically get out the lightsaber? I was using the Flechette, and a DDS iBot pulled it away. It pulled out the saber, and it switched to the Pistol! I was sabered. :(

On a lighter note, QTracker works now. :D

El Sitherino
11-14-2005, 07:55 PM
So Kurgan, what do you have to say about the g_debugmelee 1? I'd certainly like to know how it's possible to do a normal wall jump with that setting.
Do it like you normally do it in a non-OJP game? I've yet to encounter the problem you seem to be having, perhaps you should practice until you learn how to do it.

StaffSaberist
11-14-2005, 10:38 PM
Odd. I loaded up OJP, and turned on debugmelee, and it worked fine. I had my saber out, not my fists, but I had no problem grabbing the wall. I had to work at it to do that Spiderman thing. Which was cool. Good for ambushes...

Uh, curious... are n00b's welcome on Meatgrinder? I can slaughter the iBots, but I haven't had the best of luck vs. other humans. If I start losing, I start flailing the Staff. I don't resort to katas, but I do start just randomly attacking. I don't have "Jedi-calm" yet. ;) And I am sure to lose a lot. Is that alright?

thehomicidalegg
11-15-2005, 01:27 AM
of course, just join and have fun. about the player numbers, i think its mostly packed when the siege maps comes up on rotation and usually, quite alot stay on for a holocron map or two afterwards.

also, i dunno but i'd think the bots mght use force more if they arent always depleted from kata'ing ;). this is a complete waste of time in jedimaster...even having them spammings lighting would be more effective. auto-push-response to some of the weapons would help too. good work on getting the bots picking up ammo though - you never know how many rockets one truly has :D

Lathain Valtiel
11-15-2005, 01:37 AM
I've yet to see a rgbsaber on the meatgrider and it's been online for months. As for TrueView, I'm confused as to how this alters the gameplay. All it does is change your point of view.

Yeah, the meatgrinder population does vary a lot. I suspect it's normally the gametype playing that attracts or repels users. I haven't bothered to analyse our game logs about that.

1: I think only me, Antilles, and like two other guys actively use it. Surprisingly, few people know they're running a mod on Meatgrinder.

2: This is correct. People start leaving when Holocron comes up... Almost nobody likes it when they are reduced to the essentials. Jedi Master isn't popular either, mainly due to the fact that a few people are so good at it as to become dominating.

StaffSaberist
11-15-2005, 08:38 AM
I like to play Jedi Master, but I usually set the Holocron # to either 5 or Unlimited. Unlimited makes you a prime target to anyone with brains. (i.e, not the Bots ;)) I also like a good Jedi Master game, but of course I have yet to play it with other people. Good for touching up gunning skills. :)

Thanks, homicidalegg. I can't join Meatgrinder yet, I'm mapping as I type. But I'll check it out after classes today :)

marvidchano
11-15-2005, 11:40 AM
By cheaters I mean slider and the other mod makers who keep adding insane cheats into the game like grapplehooks and jetpacks, and who tweak the game settings for infinite force and lightside advantages.
huh?! how do u get jetpacks?! can u get it on xbox?

ZeroX2
11-15-2005, 12:40 PM
huh?! how do u get jetpacks?! can u get it on xbox?
I believe one of the Siege maps contains a character with the Jet Pack. Other than that, you must use mods or cheats.

Do it like you normally do it in a non-OJP game?
But it's impossible. You can do a wall-jump with g_debugmelee 1, yes. But you cannot do a force wall-jump with that setting.

Kurgan
11-15-2005, 12:40 PM
Odd. I loaded up OJP, and turned on debugmelee, and it worked fine. I had my saber out, not my fists, but I had no problem grabbing the wall. I had to work at it to do that Spiderman thing. Which was cool. Good for ambushes...


Okay, now I'm confused, what were these folks complaining about if it works?

I'm still going to have to check this out. Too bad I'm going on vacation this weekend for a week.. maybe Friday before I leave.


Uh, curious... are n00b's welcome on Meatgrinder?

Of course they are welcome. I only ask of you two things:

1) Don't start whining if you get beat. Chances are high that you will get beat after all... ;)

2) Don't try to convert us to the ways of "honorz" if that's your type of gameplay.

We're pretty easy going almost to a fault, so come in and have fun. If you don't take losing hard then you should have a good time!

I can slaughter the iBots, but I haven't had the best of luck vs. other humans. If I start losing, I start flailing the Staff. I don't resort to katas, but I do start just randomly attacking. I don't have "Jedi-calm" yet. ;) And I am sure to lose a lot. Is that alright?

You may need to "resort" to certain tactics if you want to win (unless you're of the "honorz" mentality, but each to his own... just don't seriously cite your handicaps as an excuse for your loss, that always sounds like sore loser-ship!). You will learn... ;)

A good way to train is to play against people better than you (and to spectate them sometimes to see how they play) because it sharpens your skills (even if you are utterly demolished, your next battle with a lesser opponent will go better, from the edge you've gained) and teaches you things.

Kurgan
11-15-2005, 12:45 PM
2: This is correct. People start leaving when Holocron comes up... Almost nobody likes it when they are reduced to the essentials. Jedi Master isn't popular either, mainly due to the fact that a few people are so good at it as to become dominating.

That's not entirely correct, at least from what I've seen. It's true that when we started Holocron, some folks, like Cannoli (which surprised me) considered it pathetic and didn't foresee it being popular. But I've checked numerous times when it's been running and found 8, 10, even 12 people playing it. We usually don't pull in those kinds of numbers with Jedi Master, for comparison!

Some days are slower than others and some times of day are slower than others. I guess it all depends on when you come in. But I know at least some people are willing to try this game mode. But then I was checking it from the website tracker. For all I know those folks spent the entire match whining. ;)

But then they all had points, so it couldn't have been that bad! heh


As for the RGB thing, I can understand people not using it. OJP has only two servers, and so a lot of people probably don't realize our mod is a server mod. They may have heard of it, but think it's just for single player or they think of Enhanced (though at least 6 months ago I remember telling people about OJP and they had to have it explained to them what it was exactly). To use RGB you have to have the client portion installed and running on your end. Sure you can see other sabers, but Lath's pretty much right, it's a couple of regulars that are "in the know" that take advantage.

ZeroX2
11-15-2005, 12:46 PM
Of course they are welcome. I only ask of you two things:

1) Don't start whining if you get beat. Chances are high that you will get beat after all... ;)

2) Don't try to convert us to the ways of "honorz" if that's your type of gameplay.

We're pretty easy going almost to a fault, so come in and have fun. If you don't take losing hard then you should have a good time!
Don't forget disabling kill-trackers! >_>

Kurgan
11-15-2005, 12:47 PM
huh?! how do u get jetpacks?! can u get it on xbox?

In the basic game (which is all you get... no mods for the console versions, sorry!) for JK2 there are no jetpacks. In JA you can only use a jetpack on Siege Desert (Tatooine) as the Mercenary Scout (Boba Fett). Jump and then hit use in mid air to activate.(this is all described on my site incidentally).

In JA single player, you can change your model with the playermodel command (in MP, it's \model instead). If you change yourself to Boba Fett, you can use his jetpack (though it's very different than the MP version). I don't know if you can use this cheat in the Xbox version of the game, as I've never played it (does the Xbox even have a keyboard?).

In Jedi Outcast there were a few mods that enabled Jetpacks, such as ProMod. I never used the jetpack in these mods, but I imagine it was similar. The first Jetpack and Grapple hook mods in the series were in the original Jedi Knight. ;)

Of course the Grapple hook was an old mod that first appeared in Quake1.

El Sitherino
11-15-2005, 12:47 PM
But it's impossible. You can do a wall-jump with g_debugmelee 1, yes. But you cannot do a force wall-jump with that setting.
Bull****, I did it 3 times yesterday.

ZeroX2
11-15-2005, 01:00 PM
Bull****, I did it 3 times yesterday.
Video please.

Kurgan
11-15-2005, 01:01 PM
I'm not sure how I want to change that as it could cause the team scores/autobalancer to really flip out. I've retooled how the balancer picks which player to move so it should be much more consistant with moving the bots instead of players. I don't think I've updated the server with that yet thou.


Well in CTF it wouldn't matter because all that counts is captures. But I can see the problem in Team FFA. How do mods like Xmod2 handle it? Apparently they do the "keep your score" option. Even if it let you keep your score minus one, that would be great (if above zero of course!). It should only reset your score if you have negatives. ;)

Perhaps it stores a team score vs. player scores? Or perhaps it could? I know other games handle this, but they're not Q3 engine games...
I mean here's the thing: when you have a certain team score, and let's say you have 50 points. And 49 of those points were score by one person on the team (everybody else got zero except one other guy who got one). And the 49 point guy switches teams, disconnects or goes into spectator. Do all his points leave with him? No, they stay with the team score, and his score turns to zero. You're thinking if he switched teams and kept his score, the other team would suddenly GAIN 49 points? Just make it so that joining a team doesn't add any points.

Anyway, I'd love to see those new changes, but I really think the score thing would help tons.

As for the random ping for bots, it appears to make people happier about playing the bots. Many people are strictly anti-bot, no matter how good they are. As such, people will happily play against TABBots if they think they are humans. Strange, but true.

Agree 100% on this. It really cuts down on whining. I've had people carry on conversations with the bots, and even whine about their skillz. If they suddenly find out they are bots they then say "bots suck" etc and sometimes leave. It's hilarious (because up till that point they were being challenged by the bots and admitting the bots were good!).

Bots are necessary to keep a server live and going, as I've always maintained, so it's a nice way to sneak them in without pissing off the anti-bot types.


TABbots do use force powers. It's just that their force powering abilities are limited to the few powers that I've been able to program into the system.


Thanks for clarifying. We should start getting some more powers in there. ;)


Unfortunately most of the force powers involve a LOT of situational logic to be able to use properly like a human would. I simply haven't been able to deduce that logic yet, and noone has provided help in that area.

Some don't require any logic at all, like Team Heal/Team Energize. As a human, you can bind these powers to your movement keys. So you are running along and if you have enough mana and a teammate comes into range of you, they get the power used on them. Bots could do this the same way. It's sort of like how the Tech bots are constantly throwing ammo, even if there's nobody around to pick it up.

Could any clues on how to use the powers be deduced from the basejka bots? After all, they somehow "know" when to use the powers they use. At least it would be a nice temporary fix until you figure out a "better way."

Perhaps like how when you create a bot file in botmaker, you set a "heirarchy" for what weapons they prefer. You could also set a heirarchy for what powers they prefer. I know that doesn't count all the intricacies of Force use, but it could help. Plus a bot doesn't have every force power, he only has a few (like a human would) according to his bot profile. So he doesn't have to choose from everything (unless he's the Jedi Master, or somebody with some random holocrons).

I just want the bots to at least be as powerful as the old school bots, not just better on some areas, but worse in others. It's great if they can accomplish objectives, but if they suck in combat, how do they get to that point? Anyway, good luck. ;)

ZeroX2
11-15-2005, 01:07 PM
Bots are necessary to keep a server live and going, as I've always maintained, so it's a nice way to sneak them in without pissing off the anti-bot types.
But then it pisses off the anti-random-ping-bot types. ;)

Edit: Okay, you're right - you can still perform a force wal-jump. But with g_debugmelee 1, you only have a fraction of a second in which to press the jump button. Why alter the default/core technique for performing these, just to add a couple of kicks and wall-stick moves that nobody ever uses? It's pointless, and annoying.

Kurgan
11-15-2005, 01:22 PM
Yeah, muting killtrackers goes without saying! Heh

But then it pisses off the anti-random-ping-bot types. ;)

Edit: Okay, you're right - you can still perform a force wal-jump. But with g_debugmelee 1, you only have a fraction of a second in which to press the jump button. Why alter the default/core technique for performing these, just to add a couple of kicks and wall-stick moves that nobody ever uses? It's pointless, and annoying.

Because kicking people and grapple them (especially when you have no saber) is FUN. ;)

And if the Force wall jump takes more skill to use, who am I to argue with that? At least it still works, according to you guys.

Lathain Valtiel
11-15-2005, 01:53 PM
Kurg: The high numbers you usually see for Holocron area side-effect of Siege being on right before it. They get bored and leave in most cases I've seen.

Kurgan
11-15-2005, 02:17 PM
Based on their scores, I imagine they stayed at least for one map change, if not longer. Holocron is just as exciting as FFA, you just don't have preset Force (and are thus limited to 3 force powers... 4 counting Level 1 Jump that you always have).

In any case, my point is that it's not like people see it and immediately go "oh not this lame gametype" and disconnect.

El Sitherino
11-15-2005, 02:34 PM
Edit: Okay, you're right - you can still perform a force wal-jump. But with g_debugmelee 1, you only have a fraction of a second in which to press the jump button. Why alter the default/core technique for performing these, just to add a couple of kicks and wall-stick moves that nobody ever uses?

So you have to actually have skill to use a technique. :)

And to say that nobody ever uses it is both moronic and false. Perhaps instead of having an opinion on something you know nothing about, you should take time to educate yourself.

It's pointless, and annoying.
So is your whining about a move that is also "pointless and annoying".

ZeroX2
11-15-2005, 03:36 PM
I have never seen anybody use it on Meatgrinder. You can't tell somebody that his/her experiences are "both moronic and false".

And if the Force wall jump takes more skill to use, who am I to argue with that? At least it still works, according to you guys.
Why not decrease the damage of the guns? Then they would take more skill to use, too. And turn up g_forceregentime. Then you would need to manage your force use even more carefully. Anyway, it doesn't take more skill. It takes more luck - this really is impossible to perform on the larger maps with a lower FPS.

El Sitherino
11-15-2005, 05:39 PM
I have never seen anybody use it on Meatgrinder. You can't tell somebody that his/her experiences are "both moronic and false".


No, I can't, but I can tell you that your statement is moronic and false. And I did.

Why not decrease the damage of the guns? Then they would take more skill to use, too. And turn up g_forceregentime. Then you would need to manage your force use even more carefully. Anyway, it doesn't take more skill. It takes more luck - this really is impossible to perform on the larger maps with a lower FPS.
Wah.

razorace
11-15-2005, 05:46 PM
Well in CTF it wouldn't matter because all that counts is captures. But I can see the problem in Team FFA. How do mods like Xmod2 handle it? Apparently they do the "keep your score" option. Even if it let you keep your score minus one, that would be great (if above zero of course!). It should only reset your score if you have negatives. ;)

I'd like to try my improved code on the server before we go to preserving scores. :)

Some don't require any logic at all, like Team Heal/Team Energize. As a human, you can bind these powers to your movement keys.

Ah, see I thought you had to aim those powers.

Could any clues on how to use the powers be deduced from the basejka bots? After all, they somehow "know" when to use the powers they use. At least it would be a nice temporary fix until you figure out a "better way."

Unfortunately, the basejka force power code is pretty basic. I've been wary about porting any of it because it's so dependant on the way things work in the basejka bot code.

Perhaps like how when you create a bot file in botmaker, you set a "heirarchy" for what weapons they prefer. You could also set a heirarchy for what powers they prefer. I know that doesn't count all the intricacies of Force use, but it could help. Plus a bot doesn't have every force power, he only has a few (like a human would) according to his bot profile. So he doesn't have to choose from everything (unless he's the Jedi Master, or somebody with some random holocrons).

The botfiles already have weapon preferences and the TABBot code uses that information. This is the reason why some bots seem stubbornly stuck on using blasters and such.

As for the force powers, I THINK the bot files also covers which force powers the bot wants. I don't know how that particular system affects which force powers the bots get.

I just want the bots to at least be as powerful as the old school bots, not just better on some areas, but worse in others. It's great if they can accomplish objectives, but if they suck in combat, how do they get to that point? Anyway, good luck. ;)
The bots are already suprior to the basejka bots @ combat they just don't use force powers. In fact, they pretty much dominated the basejka bots and that was in the prototype phase.

ZeroX2
11-15-2005, 06:00 PM
Wah.
Do you have anything better to say than that?

StaffSaberist
11-15-2005, 06:26 PM
1) Don't start whining if you get beat. Chances are high that you will get beat after all...


I rarely even chat mid-game. Sometimes, after I fall to my doom, I may type in "Oops, that was dumb" or something like that. If I see three enemies, and I start a kata to kill them, and two die before I hit them, I apologize, because you shouldn't use it vs. one opponent, IMHO. I have two preset chat buttons:

If I see in FFA an idling opponent, I Force-Push, jump so I am in front of them, and hit a button that says "Hello there!" (ala Ep. III.) I don't attack when they are down on purpose. (Sometimes I accidentally do a finishing move)

If an enemy is doing something appaling (like capturing my flag) and I can do something about it, I have a preset button that says, "Not if anything to say about it, *I* have!" (Usually when I am about to Force-Push or saber-ambush them.) I sometimes get the other players laughing, and that gets them distracted... focus you must have to survive, Padawan... :)

2) Don't try to convert us to the ways of "honorz" if that's your type of gameplay.

I believe you read my arguments on the great single/staff debate, since you had to split it off... thanks, btw. I fight with my system of honor, but that does include using guns when it's necessary. I tend to prefer the saber to the guns, if I have a choice, but I'm not afraid of using the Repeater. Sometimes I try to take a back route, but even then I usually get out a gun to have relative stealth.

I am having trouble finding Meatgrinder, the search doesn't come up... and QTracker can see about 5 games with near-identical IP addresses, but not quite the same. :( I'll keep looking.

razorace
11-15-2005, 07:37 PM
Just add it as a favorite and you should be able to directly connect to it.

StaffSaberist
11-15-2005, 08:20 PM
Ah, yes, found it. And a ping of 84, no less! A great server with great ping?? Impossible, I say!! And yet, here it is. Wow. I have 0 experience with the Siege levels, though. =/ I want the first impression of me to be at least a little better than "total n00b". ;) I probably will be one, but I'll wait till the next gametype. Besides, that gives me ample time to get my @$$ hauling on that map I'm doing. Hasn't been easy, mentally... but I will join, I swear. (Oops, we aren't allowed to swear.) ;)

El Sitherino
11-15-2005, 11:52 PM
Do you have anything better to say than that?
Bring a valid complaint instead of excuses, and I'll stop saying it.

If I can do it, you can do it.
Learn to time things, it makes you a better player.

StaffSaberist
11-16-2005, 12:16 AM
I think what he is saying is what I just noticed. I might be imagining it though. ojp loaded, g_debugmeelee active, FFA with no opponents. I jumped onto a wall, and gripped it and jumped off. But I didn't fly up in the air for a half second, I just went down. Not enough for a valid complaint, but I think that's what ZeroX2 noticed. If so, it doesn't really make all that much difference. If not, please correct me. :)

El Sitherino
11-16-2005, 01:04 AM
No, he's complaining about not being able to get his timing right to do the force wall jump.

ZeroX2
11-16-2005, 07:50 AM
No, he's complaining about not being able to get his timing right to do the force wall jump.
It's not about timing. It's about it being impossible to perform at lower FPS counts. You seem to be under the impression that everybody can afford the latest hardware. We can't.

StaffSaberist
11-16-2005, 08:58 AM
Fair enough, but the game does work with the mod installed and melee debugged. Bad things happen at lower fps on ANY game. Period. Sabers don't hit like they should. Force Pwers like Grip fail to connect. The entire game begins to lag. That happened to me, too: The built-in video card on my computer had 8 MB. And I played on it! I had res at minimum, no good textures, bilinear filtering and no anisitropy. You may want to turn down those settings until you can afford a better card.

ZeroX2
11-16-2005, 11:22 AM
Fair enough, but the game does work with the mod installed and melee debugged.
But the game is supposed to be played with g_debugmelee disabled. That is the default setting, and it is meant to be like that in most cases - the same goes for g_forceregentime, and the like. When I want to be able to climb over walls like Spiderman and perform other feats along those lines, I'll play JA+.

El Sitherino
11-16-2005, 11:48 AM
It's not about timing. It's about it being impossible to perform at lower FPS counts. You seem to be under the impression that everybody can afford the latest hardware. We can't.
I know we can't, that's why we have the ability to lower settings, if you don't want to do that, it's your fault.

But the game is supposed to be played with g_debugmelee disabled.
Not really, otherwise you'd be incapable of doing so in basejka. All the server admin has to do is type in a command and bam, melee mode on.

If it wasn't supposed to be played without it, there would be no play with melee, infact there would be no melee.

ZeroX2
11-16-2005, 12:31 PM
I know we can't, that's why we have the ability to lower settings, if you don't want to do that, it's your fault.
Again, you seem to be under the impression that everybody can afford the latest hardware. I do have my game on the lowest settings. Don't make moronic and false assumptions.

El Sitherino
11-16-2005, 12:53 PM
... I highly doubt you can't buy a video card with at least 8mb of ram, they're about 15 dollars. Mow a lawn, there you go, you can play on low settings with 20 fps.

Kurgan
11-16-2005, 01:40 PM
Not to sound like a flame here, but what kind of FPS counts are we talking about here?

And I agree with Sith.. why can't you lower your display settings to increase your FPS? Still, JA isn't exactly a high end game by hardware standards (except for dynamic glow, which you can easily turn off!). If your FPS counts are throwing off your timing of the wall-jump, I can't imagine what else it's throwing off...

ZeroX2
11-16-2005, 03:14 PM
Not to sound like a flame here, but what kind of FPS counts are we talking about here?
My FPS can be at anything between 1 and 30, depending on the map (as I said). A small map runs fairly well, especially when I'm looking towards a nearby wall.

And I agree with Sith.. why can't you lower your display settings to increase your FPS?
Erm, because they're at the lowest?

If your FPS counts are throwing off your timing of the wall-jump, I can't imagine what else it's throwing off...
Not much, actually. Why? Because you only have a split-second to press jump in order to perform a debug wall-jump. Try doing this with a lower frame rate.

StaffSaberist
11-16-2005, 06:20 PM
My FPS can be at anything between 1 and 30, depending on the map (as I said). A small map runs fairly well, especially when I'm looking towards a nearby wall.

Any map runs well when you are looking at a wall. :) If your fps is bad, I am sorry. I wish there was a mod that reduces your field of vision, so you'd have better fps. My framerate varies even more than yours: On one spot on Tattooins (t1_sour), my fps is 5. On other parts, my fps is anywhere from 50 to 80, 100+ on a custom map that I've barely started sculpting.

Erm, because they're at the lowest?

Again, that hurts. I can't stand to play that low, I feel your pain. But like Sithy said, in a stronger way, why not save up for a better Video Card/Memory chip? I have upgraded my cards to 256 MB video card and 512 MB memory. If my CPU wasn't substandard, I'd be running on 1152 X 864, with 90 FPS through the game. Too bad I can't, till I replace this system. :(

Not much, actually. Why? Because you only have a split-second to press jump in order to perform a debug wall-jump. Try doing this with a lower frame rate.

Some of us can't. ;) And you have enoughtime. I timed myself just for you. To switch from a standard wall-grab to a debugged Spidey... thing... took me a half-second. JA is fast-paced enough that your reflexes are that quick, Padawan. ;)

ZeroX2
11-16-2005, 06:45 PM
my fps is anywhere from 50 to 80, 100+ on a custom map that I've barely started sculpting.
Whoa. >_>

Again, that hurts. I can't stand to play that low, I feel your pain. But like Sithy said, in a stronger way, why not save up for a better Video Card/Memory chip? I have upgraded my cards to 256 MB video card and 512 MB memory. If my CPU wasn't substandard, I'd be running on 1152 X 864, with 90 FPS through the game. Too bad I can't, till I replace this system. :(
I intend to buy a new PC fairly soon. But my point was that g_debugmelee 1 is pointless, annoying, and it was never meant to be enabled in games (it's a debug setting, after all).

I timed myself just for you. To switch from a standard wall-grab to a debugged Spidey... thing... took me a half-second.
You mean you have half a second in which to press the jump button a second time when g_debugmelee 1 is enabled in order to perform a Force Jump from the wall-jump, right? Because that's what I'm talking about. Just checking. ;)

StaffSaberist
11-16-2005, 07:31 PM
Whoa. >_>

^_^

omg, I've been on forums too long.

I intend to buy a new PC fairly soon. But my point was that g_debugmelee 1 is pointless, annoying, and it was never meant to be enabled in games (it's a debug setting, after all).

Whoa, it means that? I thought debugmelee meant that you debug the melee, not play on a melee version! :xp:

You mean you have half a second in which to press the jump button a second time when g_debugmelee 1 is enabled in order to perform a Force Jump from the wall-jump, right? Because that's what I'm talking about. Just checking. ;)

Right. And I'm not kidding, either. It's real smooth and fluid. Just let go as you hit the wall (on yo' new system) and it'll go as normal.

Kurgan
11-16-2005, 07:45 PM
Ouch, now it all makes sense!

This reminds me of how I tried to play Quake3 (on really low settings) with my Pentium 233 MMX (yes a pentium 1), 64 megs of ram and an 8 meg video card (voodoo2). I think 20-25 FPS was the average I got during "good times" heh. :)

I got through a LAN party with it, but man, when I upgraded... what a change!

Where are you vs. the official system requirements? I remember how when JK1 came out it said it required a minimum of a Pentium 90, but people with Pentium 75's played it and even somebody with a 486! (a very patient one)

With a FPS game you need a minimum of constant 30 FPS, but we should be getting 60 for smoothness sake. Anything above that is gravy... but for 3-D games that's pretty standard expectations (when console games action games perform below 60 you start getting complaints).

All I can say now is good luck!

acdcfanbill
11-17-2005, 02:14 AM
what you think are the lowest settings might not actually be.

why dont you run through mjz's config guide (http://www.chopshopservers.com/education/mjz's_config_guide.html) and see if you can boost your performance a bit.

cafa
11-17-2005, 02:26 AM
what you think are the lowest settings might not actually be.

why dont you run through mjz's config guide (http://www.chopshopservers.com/education/mjz's_config_guide.html) and see if you can boost your performance a bit.
i must say that this will be very useflu for me!!! i have a ~472Mhz amd, so its very hard play JA (i used to play on friends...)
today i only play the MP against on bot at the smalest stage that i could find on the net.
[off topic]talking about mp scenarios, if any of you have a very very smal/ very very low scenario that could give me a link to download i apreciate

StaffSaberist
11-17-2005, 08:20 AM
cafa - this map can be played in FFA and duel, I think, and it is small. Just for you. ;)

http://www.force-temple.com/jk3/index.php?go=files&viewfile=showfile&id=692

Have fun.

ZeroX2
11-17-2005, 09:25 AM
what you think are the lowest settings might not actually be.

why dont you run through mjz's config guide (http://www.chopshopservers.com/education/mjz's_config_guide.html) and see if you can boost your performance a bit.
I have configured all the various settings, but thanks anyway.

As for Meatgrinder - never mind. I'm sure there are many interesting players on there, but there are too many problems (the main ones, of course, being the chaotic team balancer, and the debug settings) in my opinion. I'll just look for another server.

Edit: Where are you vs. the official system requirements?
Well, I don't have such a bad computer that I can't meet the minimum requirements. I have an Athlon XP 1.25 GHz (minimum being a Pentium 3 450 MHz), 512 MB of RAM (minimum being 128 MB), and a GeForce FX 5200 card (with the latest drivers). But of course, there's more to it than just what hardware you have. I use Windows XP and perform virus/registry/spyware scans fairly often. I've configured it all so that unnecessary programs do not run on start up, and I disable my anti-virus software whenever I play my games. I get fairly good start-up and shut-down times, few crashes (if any), and the like. Yet games never run at anything over 30 (and they're not capped at that, if that's what you're thinking), unless, of course, they're quite old - No One Lives Forever, for example, runs pretty well at 1024x768, as does Quake III Arena (I think I can actually get around 90 FPS in that!). Anything newer than those, such as Jedi Academy (funny, since it uses a modified Q3 engine), does not run well. *Shrugs*

thehomicidalegg
11-17-2005, 10:49 AM
whoa... im on a laptop with a ****ty radeon 7500 mobility (i bought kotor2 and cant play it >:( ) yet i get ~80 fps

ZeroX2
11-17-2005, 10:55 AM
Impressive.

razorace
11-17-2005, 12:14 PM
Something is horribly wrong if you're getting bad framerates on that system, XeroX2. I used to run JKA in debug mode on a 1.4 ghz with a GForce 3 and it ran fine.

ZeroX2
11-17-2005, 12:29 PM
Something is horribly wrong if you're getting bad framerates on that system
I know. Any suggestions?

XeroX2.
Who? >_>

Kurgan
11-17-2005, 02:53 PM
I'd say it's worth buying some new hardware just to be able to play flawlessly on Meatgrinder but that's me.

There IS one other OJP server out there, so you won't be totally left out in the dark.
;)

razorace
11-17-2005, 09:17 PM
There's another OJP server out there?!

dumbledore
11-17-2005, 10:08 PM
i personally was getting horrible sp framerates (~13 fps O_O) before i modified com_maxfps and sv_fps in jaconfig.cfg (yes, i had to change both...)

StaffSaberist
11-17-2005, 11:15 PM
*Music plays* *zzrrrp*

Hold on. You can configure your FPS? HOLY $#!t!

razorace
11-17-2005, 11:22 PM
com_maxfps - sets the max fps on the client...I think
sv_fps - sets the number of frames per second that the server is run on. The server fps relates to stuff like hit detection, player movement, etc.

cafa
11-17-2005, 11:25 PM
cafa - this map can be played in FFA and duel, I think, and it is small. Just for you. ;)

http://www.force-temple.com/jk3/index.php?go=files&viewfile=showfile&id=692

Have fun.
thanks, ill test it this weekend

ZeroX2
11-18-2005, 09:01 AM
There IS one other OJP server out there, so you won't be totally left out in the dark.
;)
Why would I want to play on an OJP server? You seem to be forgetting the many basejka servers you mentioned earlier!

Lathain Valtiel
11-18-2005, 03:04 PM
I don't know... Probably because there is no concievable gameplay difference from basejka, there are only gametype additions (rather fun gametypes to boot), more killer bots, and extras?

But then, it's not like you have been suspectible to the power of logic and reason.

Kurgan
11-18-2005, 03:39 PM
Why would I want to play on an OJP server? You seem to be forgetting the many basejka servers you mentioned earlier!

Oh that's right, you were one of the guys upset by such features as TrueView and RGB sabers, correct? If so, then yes, you should play on basejka. ;)

In team-games you'll have to rely on the "honor system" for switching teams towards balance, but if you can stomach that, then you should be fine!

Hopefully you can find a server with settings you prefer...


And yeah, last I heard there was another OJP server, though it wasn't up as much as our's.

Kurgan
11-18-2005, 03:46 PM
ZeroX2... do us a favor. Go through your display settings menus in JA and tell us what you have set for EACH option. Not just your res and depth, but everything that's listed please.

Also your in-game sound settings. Any display related cvars you're using as well (like cg_rendertotexturefx, broadsword [ragdoll], r_dynamicglow, etc.).

Do you have the latest stable DirectX version and official stable video card drivers? Any error messages on JA startup (check the console)?

And finally, what is your desktop (windows) color depth and resolution setting at? What is your monitor refresh rate set to?

You can check these in control panel under Display settings (advanced for the Refresh rate in Hz).

ZeroX2
11-19-2005, 03:57 PM
Oh that's right, you were one of the guys upset by such features as TrueView and RGB sabers, correct? If so, then yes, you should play on basejka. ;)
While I haven't done much Q3 engine modding myself, would it really be so hard to add a cvar to control these? You said earlier that the problem with those is that players don't know what they're getting. But you also said that those 'features' don't alter gameplay - this means that it wouldn't really matter to the player if they're getting that or not. Right? So why can't a simple cvar be added to toggle these? Then we're all happy. As for Meatgrinder, I'm still waiting for a good reason as to why g_debugmelee 1 is used.

In team-games you'll have to rely on the "honor system" for switching teams towards balance, but if you can stomach that, then you should be fine!
Basejka has an auto-team-balancer as well.

ZeroX2... do us a favor. Go through your display settings menus in JA and tell us what you have set for EACH option. Not just your res and depth, but everything that's listed please.

Also your in-game sound settings. Any display related cvars you're using as well (like cg_rendertotexturefx, broadsword [ragdoll], r_dynamicglow, etc.).
I don't think that would really help, as I've played around with the settings a lot myself. I've tried a range of different options.

Do you have the latest stable DirectX version and official stable video card drivers? Any error messages on JA startup (check the console)?
Yes, I have the latest DirectX and official drivers, no error messages.

And finally, what is your desktop (windows) color depth and resolution setting at? What is your monitor refresh rate set to?
1024x768, 32 bit, 60 Hz. But lowering these doesn't really make a difference.

razorace
11-19-2005, 04:35 PM
Well, the problems that arise from having toggle cvars for everything is that people won't know what is and isn't available. This is a big problem for servers as you don't want to be able to go onto an OJP server and not know what is being played.

Plus, it's not as easy as you'd think to have server based cvars that control those options. Frankly, you're really the only person who's so purist about the OJP features. If it's that much of a problem for you, it sounds like basejka is more your speed.

ZeroX2
11-19-2005, 04:43 PM
Well, the problems that arise from having toggle cvars for everything
What about a single toggle cvar for all the unnecessary features (leaving bug fixes, TAB bots, etc.)?

StaffSaberist
11-19-2005, 04:44 PM
Well, the problems that arise from having toggle cvars for everything is that people won't know what is and isn't available. This is a big problem for servers as you don't want to be able to go onto an OJP server and not know what is being played.

Plus, it's not as easy as you'd think to have server based cvars that control those options. Frankly, you're really the only person who's so purist about the OJP featuresSadly, I have to agree. The "you don't know what you are getting" referred to Xmod2, I think, with the ability to customize the guns. OJP lets you customize saber COLOR, but not damage, stances, etc. It really makes no difference, except more colors are available.

ZeroX2
11-19-2005, 04:49 PM
Let me quote something from the OJP website itself.

Our design philosophy is to make everything as separated and customizable as possible to allow developers and players to choose what features they wish to use.

Edit: Also, the following.

One is bug fixes and balance fixes, neither which will severely alter game play. They are designed to be the "unofficial patch" for bugs and game play problems. Basic can still be considered vanilla Jedi Academy. The other feature is map enhancements.
Which are the RGB sabers and True View? Bug fixes, or balance fixes? ...Or are they map enhancements?

StaffSaberist
11-19-2005, 05:22 PM
Well, the RGB sabers are fun, since you aren't restricted to the default 6 colors. TrueView is... well, I'd have to see it before I judge it. But I think that's for fun as well.

ZeroX2
11-19-2005, 05:48 PM
Well, the RGB sabers are fun, since you aren't restricted to the default 6 colors.
Well, some of us prefer the standard JA ones. And what about the disco/flashing/ugly 'pimp' saber?

Edit: And I've noticed that some are glitchy. A black saber, for example, doesn't render when over certain textures.

StaffSaberist
11-19-2005, 06:33 PM
If you prefer the standard, that's fine. The presets are still there. And I happen to agree about the pimp saber - It's a funny name, but it does'nt really do much.

Never played black. Never will. :)

ZeroX2
11-19-2005, 06:37 PM
If you prefer the standard, that's fine. The presets are still there. And I happen to agree about the pimp saber - It's a funny name, but it does'nt really do much.

Never played black. Never will. :)
You don't have to use them, but you're forced to see other people using them. I don't want to play with people that run around wielding invisible/black sabers and horrible disco lightsabers. What's the point?

StaffSaberist
11-19-2005, 06:38 PM
It gives you more reason to frag them.

Lathain Valtiel
11-19-2005, 06:56 PM
Where don't the black blades work?

ZeroX2
11-19-2005, 07:18 PM
Maybe I'll take some screenshots later on. But it's not just black blades - white has problems too, if I remember rightly. It could be a problem with one of my graphical settings, but it's a problem standard blades don't have. I think one of the problems occured when the blade was over a transparent surface, if that's any help. I'm not on my JA-PC at the moment, so I can't check.

Lathain Valtiel
11-19-2005, 08:04 PM
Do you at least remember what map? Can't do much without a screen.

StaffSaberist
11-19-2005, 08:48 PM
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot00007ka.jpg

There ya go. Black Blade, Conquest of Byss map. 0 opponents.

Lathain Valtiel
11-19-2005, 08:52 PM
Ahahaha!

Tchouky, you cad!

Well, this is fixed somewhat easily be simply adding a white blade to the core... It probably looks better too.

StaffSaberist
11-19-2005, 09:01 PM
Ahahaha!

Tchouky, you cad!


W...T...F... are you trying to say? That third-to-last word isn't even English. I don't even know if it's Earthling.

Well, this is fixed somewhat easily be simply adding a white blade to the core... It probably looks better too.


Um... we aren't talking about RGB sabers, here...

Lathain Valtiel
11-19-2005, 09:10 PM
Tchouky, the man who made the RGB saber mod.

And yes, adding a white core will fix the total invisibility problem. You see, normally filtering light through something that is black and permeable causes it to cease to be black. This is normal behavior.

So, adding a white core fixes it.

That said, the black saber will no longer be a block of black light (which in fact is not natural and normally cannot exist under most circumstances), however it wll be a white core surrounded by black light. When put up to that map only the black glow will disappear, but the core will be visible. It's a good trade I think.

StaffSaberist
11-19-2005, 09:30 PM
@TK-8252, :lol:

@LV, And how do you do that? Maxing out the RGB just gives you a pale saber, all other combos don't give you white or black.

Answer this n00b question nicely, and I'll stop the flames in the Force thread. ;)

Lathain Valtiel
11-19-2005, 09:34 PM
The black saber is actually a part of the RGB saber mod.

I'm posting a pk3 that addresses this issue soon.

Lathain Valtiel
11-19-2005, 09:46 PM
Fix posted, see the OJP forums.

razorace
11-20-2005, 03:42 AM
Weird. Seems like a shader issue or something. I might check it out when I have time.
Which are the RGB sabers and True View? Bug fixes, or balance fixes? ...Or are they map enhancements?They're improvements over the basejka systems for both. It doesn't affect the gameplay so I don't think it's a problem.

Lathain Valtiel
11-20-2005, 05:09 AM
It's probably not totally a shader issue if simply changing the core from black to white stops the core from being transparentized.

I checked by axing shader portions except BlendFuncGL_SRC_ALPHA GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA, which you really have no choice but to keep because the texture uses transparent pixels.

It's due to the fact that the saber's color is dead black, and the Byss shield tries to shine blue light through saber blade textures. The game, having no other idea what to change the black saber color into, turns it blue. You can tell this is so because you can make out a faint outline of the glow as the shield moves.

In short, you can't fix it.

ZeroX2
11-20-2005, 09:21 AM
so I don't think it's a problem.
But:
Our design philosophy is to make everything as separated and customizable as possible to allow developers and players to choose what features they wish to use.

razorace
11-20-2005, 01:20 PM
The purpose of that section was to imply that you're completely welcome to modders making stripped down versions of the OJP code for their own purposes. In fact, all the currently existing mods use OJP to various degrees.

It doesn't mean that we personally make changes for every single player.

StaffSaberist
11-20-2005, 02:39 PM
It is almost the same as basejka. I tried out TrueView, it's just a slightly different, less useless angle for the first person saber. Almost exactly as in JO.

Heh. I loaded ojp on a single-player game. No RGB saber, but Staff from the start - but buggy cutscenes. Still, I gotta say thanks to OJP's creators. The bug was that camera mode didn't work, so I got to run around and see how Raven scripted the game! Awesomely simple. And funny, kicking myself around. Bwa-hahaha!

razorace
11-20-2005, 05:05 PM
The reason for the issue is because I replaced some of the camera scripts to get them to work in CoOp. Just remove the /scripts directory in your OJP stuff.pk3 and that should fix it. However, you will lose the working cameras in CoOp thou.

StaffSaberist
11-20-2005, 05:58 PM
Nah. I didn't mind. It gave me ideas for my WIP. :D

riceplant
11-22-2005, 03:42 PM
You know, you don't set off cutscenes if you're in noclip mode either.

StaffSaberist
11-22-2005, 06:20 PM
Um... we weren't talking about noclip. The cutscenes played, it just didn't go into camera mode. So, I could walk with the cutscene characters. I'll post a screenshot if you like. :)

riceplant
11-23-2005, 08:10 AM
No need, I get what you mean now. You can also do something like that with the 'cam_disable' command, which does much the same thing.