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vader815
12-04-2005, 02:05 PM
Can i just say that there were a few illogical parts to KOTOR.
One was that when you first start the game you are a Republic officer so you and Carth should have a republic uniform. Next when you use the Sith uniform to sneak into the Undercity of Taris it didn't make sense that the guard didn't ask why Carth, if in your party, wasn't wearing his uniform. After that the dark Jedi robes, why when you were the robes you don't look like the same as when the game wears it. Next is the doors, why don't the doors close behind and why aren't the control panels beside the doors so you can open and close the door at will. Next are the space docks, why is it that on most planets in the game the NCP's (don't know if i said that right), talk as if there are more docks but you don't see any signs of them. Then you have Manaan, if you were to use the back entrance to get into the base and you went to the front of the base the game would still act as if you went threw the front. Next i will talk about the Ebon Hawk, from the inside you see no indication of how you get into the gun turret and why aren't the cannons on the side of the ship ever used. Next is how you die, why is it no matter how you're or the NCP is killed they fall on their knees then the ground if you killed by a frag grenade you should be blasted to the ground, if you're killed by the a force wave then you should fall on the ground get back up and then fall on your knees and die, it makes no sense. These are only a few of the illogical things i can think of.

BattleDog
12-04-2005, 03:32 PM
Next time if you're going to do this make a list.

1. You're a Commando, not a run of the mill soldier, or your a hired scout or hired hand with a smuggling past. Carth, well yes I suppose he could have been wearing a uniform at the start but it could be because:

A: He just got up.

B: He's just an advisor, he doesn't need a uniform.

C: He's a star pilot and thats what pilots wear when not in their fighters.

2. The Sith uniforms, well it is a little odd but Carth, or you, could be a scout and since the other Sith sees you as a Sith he doesn't feel the need to question you because he's lax a about his job. Gaddon says as much.

3. Yes that is a little odd but it doesn't give me grey hairs.

4. The doors don't close so that you can see where you've been, in point of fact some of them do close, such as the Cantinas on Taris. Adding in control panels so that you can open and close doors is a waste of time and effort, not to mention its easier just to click the door.

5. Just because you don't see the docks doesn't mean they aren't there. You can't see any of the back of the Jedi Enclave and on Kashyyk its specifically stated there are other docks elsewhere. On Tatooine you only see a small part of the town. The same with Manaan.

6. I can't remember about Manaan.

7. The way to the turret is via that ladder just back from the common area, the guns on the side are never needed, they're for making attacks on the big ships and if they aren't fixed foward they aren't fully rotational or auto-tracking. Using them on Sith fighters would require Carth to get on the fighter's tail and he's keeping the Hawk steady so that you can nail them in the turret.

8. Its the engine, live with it.

TheGreenGoblin
12-04-2005, 03:34 PM
Next i will talk about the Ebon Hawk, from the inside you see no indication of how you get into the gun turret and why aren't the cannons on the side of the ship ever used.

There's a ladder near the center of the ship that looks about right for the gun turrets. As for the forward cannons, the Hawk is fleeing in those engagments, meaning their typically not in the right firing position to be of much use.

vader815
12-04-2005, 04:40 PM
However in TSL when you use the prologue the ladder lead outside not to the turret. How do you explain that.

TheGreenGoblin
12-04-2005, 05:41 PM
A plothole in TSL, not KoTOR.

Emperor Devon
12-04-2005, 06:43 PM
However in TSL when you use the prologue the ladder lead outside not to the turret. How do you explain that.

Maybe there's more than one level the ladder reaches. :rolleyes:

I don't see why you're bothering to whine about the stuff you don't like in KOTOR. If you don't like it, then go make your own game.

90SK
12-04-2005, 09:52 PM
Maybe there's more than one level the ladder reaches. :rolleyes:

Precisely. Remember the Millennium Falcon? ANH: Turret. ESB: way on top.

A lot of the "plot holes" in TSL only need a little imagination to bypass. Just because it isn't in the game doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

StaffSaberist
12-05-2005, 12:17 AM
And as for the Dark Jedi Robes thing, I think somebody made a mod that fixes it. I'm not sure about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. :)

RobQel-Droma
12-05-2005, 01:35 AM
The dark Jedi robes look like that because the dark Jedi have a set appearence, and so when you equip the robes on the dark Jedi they will have their own special look. Kind of like the clothing, it looks different on you than it does equipped on someone else. (correct me if I'm wrong anyone)

There is a way to the turrets, from that ladder in the middle of the ship. Open your eyes up, man.

The Sith uniform: the guy for one might be a total idiot as most Sith, and secondly, remember that Sith woman in the cantina? She was wearing regular clothes, yet she was still a Sith. The guard could have assumed that he just hadn't put on his uniform, and why would he need to if you had your uniform on?

The doors stay open, probably so you can find your way back, secondly, they don't stay open all the time, and thirdly, why waste a ton of effort putting panels and stuff like that when more than half the people won't use it? What is the need for that kind of thing, there is nothing "illogical" about it.

Space docks. Another waste of time. Maybe the reason you can't see them is because they aren't in one big lump, maybe? :xp: And maybe it would have been a waste of time and space to try and fit in other docks, especially when they would have had absolutely no connection whatsoever to anything you had to do.

I don't understand what you mean about Manaan. If you are talking about Lt. Gran and the deck officer, there isn't anything there. She doesn't say anything about you coming in the front; wondering how you got and what you are doing there doesn't mean that she is implying you got in through the front door.

As for the side turrets, those are used for shooting in front of the Hawk, like if you were chasing enemy fighters. The only fighters in the game are chasing you from the back, and they never get into position for the cannons to blast them; they have hardly any range of motion.

As for the dying thing, I'll say this: its a RPG, not an FPS. That is just the way the game works, I guess.

Well, I don't really see any problems there, vader815. :rolleyes:

TheGreenGoblin
12-05-2005, 08:50 AM
Space docks. Another waste of time. Maybe the reason you can't see them is because they aren't in one big lump, maybe? :xp And maybe it would have been a waste of time and space to try and fit in other docks, especially when they would have had absolutely no connection whatsoever to anything you had to do.


That plus we actually do see other docking bays on Manaan so it's not like the Devs just forgot about them.

The only place I would have liked to see other docked ships would have been Korriban, could have been interesting.

BattleDog
12-05-2005, 10:26 PM
Precisely. Remember the Millennium Falcon? ANH: Turret. ESB: way on top.

A lot of the "plot holes" in TSL only need a little imagination to bypass. Just because it isn't in the game doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Thats a different ladder in a totally different part of the ship, TSL is full of holes and screwups, even if they finished it would still be that way.

StaffSaberist
12-05-2005, 10:56 PM
Let me ask you this: Does it affect your gameplay?

RobQel-Droma
12-05-2005, 11:31 PM
Let me answer you: NO, no, no, and did I say no. It doesn't do anything whatsoever. No unfinished quests or modules because of the space docks, no wierd movies because of the ladder you mentioned, nothing because the dark Jedi robes don't make you look like the dark Jedi do. Nothing at all.

Shem
12-06-2005, 03:28 AM
Can i just say that there were a few illogical parts to KOTOR.
One was that when you first start the game you are a Republic officer so you and Carth should have a republic uniform. Next when you use the Sith uniform to sneak into the Undercity of Taris it didn't make sense that the guard didn't ask why Carth, if in your party, wasn't wearing his uniform.

For the most part you are reading way too much into it. But I'll go over these parts. The Republic uniforms. I've changed it so my PC and Carth wear that as their default clothing. I do try to keep it realistic when you are on Taris that you both wear armor to cover up the fact you both are Republic soldiers.

As for the Sith uniform. I've make it at times where I duplicate it so both Carth and my PC are wearing them.

Soogz
12-06-2005, 08:16 AM
Yeah I mean obviously it is going to have illlogical parts. If you don't like them fix them. I will take your Carth example. Use cheat codes to get two if it is realy making you mad.

90SK
12-06-2005, 11:26 AM
Thats a different ladder in a totally different part of the ship, TSL is full of holes and screwups, even if they finished it would still be that way.

Yes yes, I'm aware. No need to start a debate. I said "a lot", not "all".

I didn't know that about the Falcon; I haven't seen the ESB in a while. You get the picture, though. We never see the actual ladder and where it goes. It's perfectly logical that it would have a port for the turret, and also lead to a maintenance hatch.

BattleDog
12-06-2005, 12:24 PM
Specifically the ladder on the Falcon leads up and down to the two turrets, which are enclosed bubbles. The thing in ESB is a lift, which is situated either directly above the boarding ramp or in the same place on the opposite side of the ship.

AS to the plot holes, well I'don't play TSL anymore, Just KOTOR.

The Doctor
12-06-2005, 06:26 PM
My advice on trying to justify everything that happens in a game is simple: don't even try. These things had to be "illogical" for the game to progress.

StaffSaberist
12-06-2005, 06:32 PM
Let me answer you: NO, no, no, and did I say no.

Thanks. :)

My advice on trying to justify everything that happens in a game is simple: don't even try. These things had to be "illogical" for the game to progress.

Exactly. If you let it get to you that much, you may need to stop a minute and think about how you don't work for BioWare (or do you?) and you don't need to worry about it. Heck, I just get so absorbed in the plot I just don't care. I played KotOR, and never made the connection between the ladder and the turrets. But I didn't really care all that much. I guess I need a higher awareness level. :D

BattleDog
12-07-2005, 01:40 PM
*Awareness check failed*

[You step in the Bantha Poodoo and land on your backside]

I don't let little things like those in KOTOR bother me. I don't like TSL's holes though.

PoiuyWired
12-07-2005, 02:18 PM
Well, some things are done for simplicity's sake, as a game.

Its like, no one ever questioned why there is no washroom in any apartments and things, and clothings never need to be cleaned. SOmetimes simple logical things would cause a big fuss if implemented. That would be an annoyance to both the dev and the players.

As for the Ebon Hawk thing, I think the elevator thingy do lead to both the cannon and the hatch though.

RobQel-Droma
12-08-2005, 12:38 AM
^You know what, of every single thing in the games or movies that could have bothered me, that did:

Where are the bathrooms!?!?!?!?

lord ignarn
12-12-2005, 09:18 AM
Itīs a recurrent question, but in some of the SW books of Incredible Locations there are bathrooms, like in Luke uncles hovel, the Outlander Club (from ep II). But in the games... Where are also the bedrooms for the jedi in Dantooine Enclave, the dining rooms? Why is the Republic Embassy in Manaan so little (there arenīt doors for hidding more rooms)? I think that they just simplify the places for them being not so big maps.

Also itīs illogical Kashiik (sorry if bad written) being so little, where are all the other wookie cities, why are the settlements so little, and how do they comunicate between cities?

lukeiamyourdad
12-12-2005, 09:16 PM
Where are also the bedrooms for the jedi in Dantooine Enclave, the dining rooms?

True Jedi don't need food ;)

Why is the Republic Embassy in Manaan so little (there arenīt doors for hidding more rooms)? I think that they just simplify the places for them being not so big maps.

Probably to keep the loading times as low as possible. Besides, what would be the point in seeing any of those?

Also itīs illogical Kashiik (sorry if bad written) being so little, where are all the other wookie cities, why are the settlements so little, and how do they comunicate between cities?

There is indeed mention of other cities. You only get to see Zaalbar's part of Kashyyyk though :) That's the point of the story.

BattleDog
12-13-2005, 11:24 AM
As to the other two, well we only see a tiny part of Ahto City, maybe that's just the Republic's Public Office. As to Dantooine, again, you only see the public part of the Enclave. The fact the TSL opened that bit up but still made it look tiny isn't Bioware's fault. What does bother me a bit though is the appartments. I mean how hard would it have been to put a door in the back for a 'fresher. It wouldn't even have to go anywhere it could just be marked "Use Refresher." Actually that sounds like the sort of thing Bioware might have done. You could break into someone else' appartment on Taris and say "I just need to use your refresher."

There could be a count so that if you did it enough Carth suggest you go see Zelka.

The Doctor
12-13-2005, 03:31 PM
You'd be surprised at how hard that could be. It wasn't necessary to the story, so they didn't do it.

BattleDog
12-14-2005, 10:09 AM
Well they could still put the door in.

90SK
12-14-2005, 10:11 AM
I don't think it was very high on their "to do" list.

Venom750
12-14-2005, 12:30 PM
I was bored so i start kotor 1 again because lets face it its sick so its occured to me your ships under attack your engine are blown and theirs alot of noise and your characters asleep i mean what the f%*k okay you wake up but if your going into battle against the sith fleet i would asume you'd be at the station ready for battle

and also

Do u think you character would have remebed the stuff with bastila and the star maps if he didn't bang his head in the escape pod?

Rain128
12-14-2005, 01:03 PM
i belive they had just come out of hyperspace.. as any big ship they have crew rotations thats easy to explain 1 guy cant watch a post 24 hours a day 7 days a week so usaly they are spit into 3 or more rotational shifts.. as Trisk (sp) explains why you may never have met (that and you just got onbord)

as for the noise yeah the battle wakes you up thats why your standing when he runs in, and him not shaking you awake

Also that would be suicide to send one ship into a fleet.. so im guessing they didnt have any intel saying that the planet was under sith control, kinda like when Juhni (sp(yeah i really suck at trying to rember how to spell there names)) tells you when the mandalorians attacked there home world they knocked out intersteller comms first... and all local was then jamed...
so no one knew they were there in the first place..

anyway

as for the rembering thing, i would have ot say yes......

Venom750
12-14-2005, 01:10 PM
At the start of the game with the big rolling speech with the music it say Ender spire was going into battle to above the outer rim world of taris to try and stop the sith domination of the galaxy and i not in the miltary myself i would think theired want all hand awake and at their stations.If you watch the movie at the start you'll see what i mean because i'm guess many people havn't watched in a long time:)

The Doctor
12-14-2005, 07:24 PM
Even if Revan hadn't hit his head in the escape pod, he wouldn't have remembered the Star Maps. His loss of memory was not due to the crash, but to the damage his mind sustained when he was captured by the Jedi Council. The Council wiped his memories and reprogrammed his mind. His memories only began to resurface when he was in proximity to the Star Maps due to the impression he left in the Force when he first found the Star Maps.

Rain128
12-15-2005, 04:12 PM
then we have some inconsistinces in the game, carth points out that they didnt choose that battle it was forced apon them...

and sending one ship into a sith fleet is suiside... and a waste of resources...

there was someone at your post, you have a 3 man rotation you dont have all 3 standing there post at one time ... 1 dose the work and the other 2 stand there with there thumbs up there butt?? ;)