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View Full Version : Creating a no light saber consular...


wanderon
01-21-2006, 09:17 AM
After finishing the game with a goody two shoes Gaurdian/WM and currently playing a DS Sentinel/Assasin I am toying with the idea of a consular who uses blasters and force powers only and shuns the light saber (pouting perhaps becuase hers was taken away) and perhaps shuns all melee action.

I am looking for suggestions for strategys to use on attributtes, skill focus, feats, and powers as well as weapon strategy (dual pistols, single pistol, rifle or some combination perhaps).

I am also looking for advice on alignment - I don't think I want to play DS with this one but I'd like to hear some pros and cons about LS vs Grey (nuetral) specifically if grey is even going to be an option for this sort of character considering that he/she would probably be relying heavily on force powers for combat.

Pros and cons of gender are also welcome so far I have played one of each...;)

I would especially like to hear from folks who have actually played a similar build in regards to how effective/ineffective they turned out and will award extra credits for verbosity and only assess a small penalty for bloviating...:D

Lantzen
01-21-2006, 09:51 AM
Go with dual blaster, rapid shot, then spedd. Thats what im using on my blaster counselor.

Hallucination
01-21-2006, 12:31 PM
A very important feat you want is Precise Shot, it really helps against Dark Jedi.
Edit: Don't forget Force Deflection, its a passive power that lets you deflect blaster bolts.

DarthDeceptus
01-21-2006, 10:17 PM
Well, I think you got two choices ahead. You can learn rapid shot (all 3 levels) and use double blasters, or you can use blaster rifle (or maybe something heavier) using either precise shot or power blast - both ways are somewhat the same considering benefits and loses, but since counselors have a higher dex, you should probably invest it in rapid shot and use dual blasters. Of blasters, I personaly reccomend mandalorian heavy. I used him also when I was playing counselor/sith lord combination, and he was performing very good.

:sithk:

Jae Onasi
01-22-2006, 12:17 AM
I don't know that I'd pick a neutral alignment here, because you'll miss out on some of the prestige-class powers that are only available if you are very LS/DS, and you'll need the extra Force help there.

wanderon
01-22-2006, 01:46 PM
Ok good comments so far - thanks!

Now about the dual pistols vs rifles I have not seen any really powerful rifles that can also be upgraded so far (altho there may indeed be some) so I think perhaps d/w pistols is probably the best overall strategy as far as damage per round and versatility goes since you could have as many as four blasters upgraded specifically for certain situations (I'm thinking one set of two for max damage against sentients and one set for droids primarily) but I am a little concerned about how many feats are needed to really excel this way.

As I see it you would want in addition to your starting feats:

1 WF blaster
3 TWF feats
5 precise shot feats
3 rapid shot feats
3 power blast feats
3 sniper shot feats

Thats a LOT of feats for a consular isn't it??

One advantage to the blaster rifle option would be that you could forget the 3 TWF feats.

Another thought it brings to mind would be a mixed class design - I wonder if a Guardian/Jedi Master would be workable for this if you set it up well attributte wise? This would be an easy RP option - the warrior comes out of hiding with a new perspective etc etc and the extra feats would be quite useful. I may have to look into that but first I want to play a consular...

Getting back to consular building what about stats?? I already expect to go with min str and at least fairly good dex but I am unsure about the wis/cha ratio and also unsure about how far I can nerf int/con. The DS consular I played up to about level 14 when she got her butt kicked on Dantooine ended with (10/14/12/14/17/14) and no amount of cheese could get her past the final confrontation there...:(

I would like to have decent skills but I don't want to have to waste precious feats on the skill based ones either which I did with that DS build. I suppose I may have to decide which skills I cannot do without and use my followers to back up the others. It is so difficult for a control freak to do that tho...:D

I am very interested in hearing what folks think about wis vs cha for consulars - I have heard different theories on that, I suspect one answer to that dilemma would be deciding which of the two is easier to raise with items.

Con is another dilemma - the extra vps and the abiltiy to use better implants can be very useful for a non melee character I think.

Then there is the whole point buy dilemma of whether its really worth it to raise an attributte above 14 and spend 2 points for 1 or if its better to spread them out more and depend on the additional points at level ups to raise them higher.

In any event some specific suggestions for consular stats along with an explaination of why you think it works would be most useful...;)

Edit:

Well I built a new consular to try out and she did relatively well getting off Peragus. She will be a LS and focus on dual weilding blasters once she has all the TWF feats and probably keep a heavy carbine or something similar ready in her other weapon slot.

I went with the following stats: (8/15/14/12/14/14) and added her first additional point to dex.

I would still be most interested in hearing some arguments about whether she should focus on wis or cha (or both) as she continues and would still be interested in seeing some other suggestions for starting stats for a build like this as I have not necessarily commited myself to playing this build through yet and may fool with another build or two before going any further with her. (She is just off Peragus on her way to Telos and is level 7 now about 1700 away from level 8 and her next attributte point).

I am less than excited about her skills - I did go ahead and blow a feat on computer skills making it a class skill and I'm not really sure which skills to focus on for her - I always find it annoying when I can't recover all those mines on Peragus altho they usually don't do anything but sit in inventory anyway...;)

wanderon, please do not Double Post, if you have the last post in a thread and wish to add something please use the 'edit this' post feature, and add your new additions to your previous post, thanks. I combined your posts this time. Good luck with your Gunslinger Jedi! ;) -RH

Ummmm....OK *snip* Please use the PM function if you have questions about what I said, thanks. -RH

Back on topic:

I have built another pistol packing Jedi - Wyatt Earp - M consular with the following stats: (8/16/12/12/14/14) I once again burned his first feat to make computers class skills and I expect to put his first attributte in con (which with his arm band will give him 14) - I am still undecided about where to put the emphasis between wis/cha and still hoping for some input on this before I get too far along...

I also fooled with a guardian build (anticipating a guardian/Jedi Master build) she's Annie Oakley and starts with (8/15/12/14/14/14)...;)

Jeremia Skywalk
01-23-2006, 01:02 PM
So these are my suggestions- blaster only no force char (easy to figure, isn't it)-
str-8 dex-18 con-14 int-14 all rest leave to 8, and put remaining points in constitution
blasters&force- str-8 dex-16 con-12 wis-16 cha- all that remains, as for blasters- dual, watchman blasters with rapid shot, ultimately upgraded, absolutely needed feats are ern that feat ern with damage increase and making lower foes blaster deflection, at max lvl, force powers - blaster deflecting one. (sorry i haven't played tsl a long time, so i dont remember precise names of feats/forces

wanderon
01-23-2006, 01:56 PM
So these are my suggestions- blaster only no force char (easy to figure, isn't it)-
str-8 dex-18 con-14 int-14 all rest leave to 8, and put remaining points in constitution
blasters&force- str-8 dex-16 con-12 wis-16 cha- all that remains, as for blasters- dual, watchman blasters with rapid shot, ultimately upgraded, absolutely needed feats are ern that feat ern with damage increase and making lower foes blaster deflection, at max lvl, force powers - blaster deflecting one. (sorry i haven't played tsl a long time, so i dont remember precise names of feats/forces

Hmmm...

Blaster only no force character would be a real challenge I don't think my masochistic side is quite that strong...:D

Blaster and force (which is what I'm aiming for) I'm not sure I can play with real low int character - I'm finding the 12 int character annoying due to lack of skills altho thats probably due more to my play style than anything else - maybe I'll build one as you suggest and see how it plays...

The feat you are speaking of is precise shot I believe...;)

DarthDeceptus
01-24-2006, 12:03 AM
Hmmm...

Blaster only no force character would be a real challenge I don't think my masochistic side is quite that strong...:D

Blaster and force (which is what I'm aiming for) I'm not sure I can play with real low int character - I'm finding the 12 int character annoying due to lack of skills altho thats probably due more to my play style than anything else - maybe I'll build one as you suggest and see how it plays...

The feat you are speaking of is precise shot I believe...;)

For the real blaster-consular, you should also use armors, but they restrict usage of your force powers, especialy those heaviest. But then, you could use robes - they don't restrict use of force powers, but then your defense bonus is lower and you're clearly not a real blasterman... :coffee:

Will you use robes or normal armor on your char, wanderon?

Jeremia Skywalk
01-24-2006, 09:01 AM
Well thats the point of makeng fully blaster char- u can get max defence bonuss, and you can put way more points in dexterity, it is not as hard as it seems, of course having that scout feat would help, but it still isn't as hard as it seems. Try doing it in kotor 1(what i am doing now)- thats the real challange.

wanderon
01-24-2006, 09:21 AM
For the real blaster-consular, you should also use armors, but they restrict usage of your force powers, especialy those heaviest. But then, you could use robes - they don't restrict use of force powers, but then your defense bonus is lower and you're clearly not a real blasterman... :coffee:

Will you use robes or normal armor on your char, wanderon?

Well now what would be the point of playing a consular if you didn't plan on using the force?? :D

If I just wanted to play a blaster weilding warrior I would go with a gaurdian/weapon master I think but my first run through was with a gaurdian/wm and even he traded in his heavy armor for those that did not restrict force powers about halfway through the game and at the end he was wearing Ossus Keeper Robes, Jal Shey Mentor Belt, Circlet of Saresh, Gamorrean Power Guantlets, and a strength package implant for a defense of 40 unbuffed. (Gaurdian 15/wm 11)

Oddly enough switching to the best heaviest armor available to him (Verpine Zal Alloy mesh) does not increase his defense so perhaps 40 is the max and even naked (with his light sabers equipped) he has a defense of 32 while naked unarmed its 26 so there is pretty much no apparent benefit to armor by games end especially considering the stat bonuses of some of the robes at that point.

In any event this particular blaster using consular will likely use those Zeison Sha or Jal Shey armors as soon as she can get her hot little hands on them (Usually on Telos) and will no doubt switch to robes as soon as she finds one better than those armors overall.

wanderon
01-28-2006, 09:33 AM
New no light saber character concept...

Well I fooled around with the 2-3 blaster/force no light saber concepts I listed here and expect to eventually play through a LS campaign with one of them but having put my current "normal" DS campaign on hold becuase it was turning out to be just too easy I decided to look at an even more restrictive concept and here are the results:

Meet Ali Ooops - DS Male Consular (Sith Lord). When he was asked to surrender his light saber to the Jedi Consul he did so and vowed to never depend on any weapon other than his own body and whatever force flowed through it again....

So here's the concept:

1) No weapons of any kind other than a plasma torch he occasionally uses on doors and containers. Hand to hand or force powers only for combat.

2)Dark side - self centered power hungry mercenary out for hire to the highest bidder with occasional lapses of soft heartedness for his allies or even the occasional stranger. (Chaotic Evil) He also seems to be particularly drawn to droids as companions but it remains to be seen how far he wil take this...;)

3)Robes or light armor that does not restrict foce powers only.(no restrictions on implants head gear guantlets etc.)

4)No light side powers except heal series.

5)Typical "Wanderon" play style - minimum reloads (only when forced or due to game crashes) no cheats/hacks - minimum cheese...;)

Starting stats: 16/12/14/8/14/12 Stat plan would be to boost str to 18 then focus on wis.

Starting skills - I put all 4 start skill points into treat injury figuring that with no weapons he might need that...:lol: This is the most annoying aspect of this character for me. It took me until level 10 to get a single point in every other skill. I suspect from this point on I will put everything (1 per level) in persuade unless someone points out some other skill that I cannot boost enough to get by with items.

Feat plan- dueling followed by flurry, power attack, critical strike (also took feat to make computer a class skill)

Powers - focus on damage - force scream, lightning, slow series, drain life, also defensive powers, deflection, resistance etc.

Ali Ooops just left Atris (level 11) and other than missing out on some quests/exp due to his lack of skills he has performed better than I expected up to this point. Only two reloads thus far - one with the droid tank when we tried to slap it around instead of zapping it with powers and one with the AK-50s in the snow when we were a little to self assured and didn't bother to sheild up right away. Otherwise almost every battle has actually gone quicker than it did using weapons or at least it seems that way. Early on Peragus almost every droid fell to a single attack for instance and the Exchange battle at Citadel Station was a cake walk.

The major combat problem thus far is a lack of good robes - I usually find Zeison armor on Peragus or Telos but thus far only have Matukai Apprentice robes (def 18) which makes it tough when you are trying to slap the enemy around. Other than those two reloads tho the H2H has worked amazingly well - he currently has +17 to hit with 12-24 damage with Gamorean gauntlets (+18 and 8-20 dmg without).

The lack of skills is extremely annoying to me tho as I am a control freak that usually wants my characters to be great at everything and this yo-yo isn't good at much of anything skill wise...:lol:

All my other campaigns went directly to Dantooine but since I have ne need of light sabers and crystals I think we will begin at Nar Shadaa.

Comments and suggestions most welcome!!!

**Wanders on singing Ali oop oop - oop - oop oop, Ali oop oop - oop - oop oop...:D**

Vaelastraz
01-28-2006, 12:45 PM
When using blasters and force only for PC my advice is:

-Master Speed [2 blaster attacks more]
-All other defense/attributes/whatever -increase forces

-imbolizing forces [my favourite is Force wave]

-2 super-upgraded blasters (if playing darkside, 2 freedon nadds blasters, at least i got them and couldnt use them..)

-Precise Shot a must
-Headshot or whatever that critical strike feat is called
-That feat which improves Blaster in melee combat

Attributes:
-8 STR [you dont need STR]
-high wis
-high dex
-moderate constitution, intelligence, char

and use the KSE do gain Hks special feat for criticals... i think that would own on that character

Hallucination
01-28-2006, 01:24 PM
Wanderon, I'm sorry to tell you but you wasted a feat. The duelling feat only works for melee or ranged weapons, and doesn't do anything for hand to hand.

wanderon
01-28-2006, 03:27 PM
When using blasters and force only for PC my advice is:

-Master Speed [2 blaster attacks more]
-All other defense/attributes/whatever -increase forces

-imbolizing forces [my favourite is Force wave]

-2 super-upgraded blasters (if playing darkside, 2 freedon nadds blasters, at least i got them and couldnt use them..)

-Precise Shot a must
-Headshot or whatever that critical strike feat is called
-That feat which improves Blaster in melee combat

Attributes:
-8 STR [you dont need STR]
-high wis
-high dex
-moderate constitution, intelligence, char

and use the KSE do gain Hks special feat for criticals... i think that would own on that character

My LS blaster totin Consular gal does indeed conform pretty much to the attributtes you suggest. At level 8 on Citadel Station (just after getting her gear back) she has 8/16/14/12/15/14. Shes working on two weapon fighting first then will probably go to precise shot and close combat feats. Thats really going to be the biggest drawback for her as a consular that she will be slow gaining all these feats.

I think I will probably try to finish my DS hand to hand game first and then I may look at the possibilty of mixing classes for the blaster/force campaign. Maybe try a guardian/Jedi Master or Sentinel/Jedi Master to boost the feats/blaster stuff early and then focus on force with the prestige class.

**********

Meanwhile Ali Ooops my H2H maniac has just defeated the Red Eclispse gang and bent them to his will. I am looking forward to finding out where that leads (no non hidden spoilers on that please). Taking out Saquesh took a little while as he was very hard to hit and saved against most force powers.

I took the plague power becuase it was a "no saves" thing but it doesn't appear to be that useful so I am wondering if it really does what it says - seems like draining 12 points from all attributtes over 12 seconds while slowing someone would make them pretty useless but it certainly didn't seem to do much to Saquesh. Do the effects just go away after the 12 seconds is up??

I took Kreia (for extra exp points ;)) and T3 out on Nar Shadaa with me as I consider how far to take my characters droid fetish...by the time we are done here I will be able to have an all droid walking around party if I can handle it...:D

No reloads since the HK battle I finally got some Zeison Sha armor and current H2H stats with items is +21 - 9-21 dmg. Surprisingly enough T3 is turning into a pretty decent fighter as well - Kreia went down in the Red Eclipse Battle but I managed to Keep T-3 going - he just got his 3rd TWF feat so he's using two blasters now as well... :tommys:

wanderon
01-28-2006, 03:38 PM
Wanderon, I'm sorry to tell you but you wasted a feat. The duelling feat only works for melee or ranged weapons, and doesn't do anything for hand to hand.


Really?? Is this a bug? The feat description clearly states that this is supposed to apply when using unarmed combat as well...

It appears the +3 to defense is working becuase if I equip 2 weapons my defense drops by 3...

And my to hit bonus does not change when I equip a single melee weapon rather than my hand to hand attack - if the bonus did not apply to H2H then equiping a weapon would gain +3 to hit.

I think perhaps you are mistaken about this...

Hallucination
01-28-2006, 03:42 PM
Sorry, never mind. I thought it was the same as K1's, but it isn't. :)

wanderon
01-29-2006, 05:38 PM
Update on Ali Ooops progress:

Finished Nar Shadaa with only a single reload from party death (used a few getting over bugs with Twin Suns and Atton) - the one from party death was from Atton and Kreia on Gotos ship and did not have Ali Ooops in party at the time.

Made Atton a Jedi and built a lightsaber for him but he has not used it yet.

Have moved on to Dantooine where I gained a few more DS points at the expense of the salvagers and finally managed to get my prestige class (Sith Lord). I am attempting to do Dantooine with AK-47 and Goto for companions. I trained AK 47 in demolitionsand Goto can handle the computer and security work but I am finding them a pain to keep healthy and of no help if I fall which led to my last reload when we got too ambitious with the Laigreks and I died and the two droids couldn't finish them off before dying. I will have to be much more cautious if I want to play with droids for back-up.

Otherwise the H2H is quite effective - with my current levels and items he's at +24 and 10-25 damage altho defense is still an issue at 26 and I have to keep a close eye on his vps and switch to drain life before he gets too low especially if he's surrounded. But He had no trouble at Jekk Jekk Tar and I only had the wookie go straight to the exit and let him in so he took out the rest of the Ubese there and quite easily. The Jedi on Nar Shadaa didn't even raise a sweat on him... ;)

wanderon
02-04-2006, 07:55 AM
Update on Ali Ooops...(H2H/force powers only consular)

Could not get Ali Ooops past the Vrook battle after assisting the mercs.This is the same thing that happened to my other DS consular altho Ali Ooops was several levels higher after finishing Nar Shadaa before going to Dantooine. (Consular 15/Sith Lord 3)

Once again Vrook was doing massive damage (50-80 per round) anytime my shields were down and he took them down every other round or so. Meanwhile plague has no visible effect on him (other than turning his health bar green for a round or so) and death field gives me only about 14 pts back (saved) while lightning or master force scream has little effect as well (he always saves). The H2H attacks are useless I never lay a glove on him.

I reloaded 2-3 times and then just gave it up for now. Perhaps the only answer is to leave Dantooine for later in the game as I have heard that the Vrook battle is one of the most difficult (altho my DS Sentinel/Assassin had no trouble with him) but of course Ali Ooops gets none of the light saber perks for either offense or defense. It might also be easier for a H2H guardian rather than a consular altho I'm not so sure about that.

Think I'll take a break from Kotor2 and go play something else for a while and maybe I can come back with some fresh ideas...;)

stoffe
02-04-2006, 08:49 AM
I took the plague power becuase it was a "no saves" thing but it doesn't appear to be that useful so I am wondering if it really does what it says - seems like draining 12 points from all attributtes over 12 seconds while slowing someone would make them pretty useless but it certainly didn't seem to do much to Saquesh. Do the effects just go away after the 12 seconds is up??
(snip)
Meanwhile plague has no visible effect on him (other than turning his health bar green for a round or so)


Plague is unfortunately not very useful against "boss" type enemies in TSL, against whom it really should have been useful (like it was in KotOR1). The reason is that in TSL those opponents don't get most of their power from their ability scores (which is what Plague lowers), but from the game's Autobalancer bonuses.

The Autobalancer is a feature in TSL that boosts the the NPCs depending on what level your main character is. It will boost their character level, defense, saves, attack, vitality, force points and damage depending on your character level and which multiplier group they have been set to. "Bosses" have their own multiplier groups, granting greater bonuses than what regular NPCs and creatures get. This is why tough NPCs may deal 80+ damage to you with regular attacks with unmodified lightsabers if your main character is high level.

These autobalancer bonuses are not affected by Plague. So while your Plague may remove a +6 damage bonus from Strength from the boss NPC, the +50 damage bonus the Autobalancer grants them is unaffected.

wanderon
02-04-2006, 10:22 AM
Plague is unfortunately not very useful against "boss" type enemies in TSL, against whom it really should have been useful (like it was in KotOR1). The reason is that in TSL those opponents don't get most of their power from their ability scores (which is what Plague lowers), but from the game's Autobalancer bonuses.

The Autobalancer is a feature in TSL that boosts the the NPCs depending on what level your main character is. It will boost their character level, defense, saves, attack, vitality, force points and damage depending on your character level and which multiplier group they have been set to. "Bosses" have their own multiplier groups, granting greater bonuses than what regular NPCs and creatures get. This is why tough NPCs may deal 80+ damage to you with regular attacks with unmodified lightsabers if your main character is high level.

These autobalancer bonuses are not affected by Plague. So while your Plague may remove a +6 damage bonus from Strength from the boss NPC, the +50 damage bonus the Autobalancer grants them is unaffected.

LOL...when PLAYERs do this sort of thing its called CHEATING...help I've been beaten by cheating devs...:D

Thanks for the info btw I suspected something like this was in play. This also speaks to what I see as a sort of linearity of characters that more or less led me to attempt this sort of character to begin with.

The way I see it the game is really structured in such a way that you have fewer choices for character creation than one might think. The reason for this is the huge number of bonuses that weilding a lightsaber adds to any character and this makes it quite difficult (IMO) to craft a non-light saber character thats going to be effective. In this case I probably took it to extremes by trying to go H2H but the reality seems to be that to make an effective character that utilizes the games focus on light sabers you have two choices - str based or dex (finesse) based and thats really about it.

Of course I suppose one might expect a game in this SW genre to feature light sabers but I think they may have taken it a little farther than necessary...;)

Hallucination
02-04-2006, 11:03 AM
If you have a save before you side with the mercs, I think you can place mines in the room where you fight Vrook.The big bang theory is always good.:D

wanderon
02-04-2006, 11:57 AM
If you have a save before you side with the mercs, I think you can place mines in the room where you fight Vrook.The big bang theory is always good.:D

Well while I suppose thats "in character" for my Sith Lord its really a little too cheesy for my playstyle...:D

Thanks for the suggestion tho...;)