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Master Kavar
02-08-2006, 11:29 PM
Ever since I heard the first rumors of Kotor III floating around the gaming community, heck ever since I finished TSL, I've been thinking and imagining how great the game could turn out, especially on the next generation consoles. (Personally I hope it will be X-Box 360, since I won't have the cash for PS3).

Then I started thinking, if I could have my say as to what would go into the next game, what new options would I like to see? I decided to start my own thread rather than hijack somebody elses, but I'd love to hear feedback.

PC Character Creation Engine: I absolutely loved how in Star Wars Galaxies that I was able to edit literally everything about my character; from height and weight, skin color and hair style, even small facial features. I don't care if I'm playing as Revan, the Exile, or a new PC, I just don't want to choose from a collection of pre-made character models like the first two games.

Unique NPC's: Since I'm already on the subject of the character creation engine, this should be applied to the entire game. Major NPC's could have their appearance created from the same engine, and random minor NPC's (like civilians) could be randomnly generated on the spot, so we're not constantly seeing the same generic characters being repeated at nausiem.

Custom Lightsabers: A Jedi / Sith's lightsaber is unique, the most personal possesion they have. Therefore it doesn't make sense that they should all look exactly the same. Just like the talented people behind the USM for TSL did, every major lightsaber weilding NPC in the game should have a lightsaber completly unique to them.

Custom PC Lightsaber: Just as, if not more important than my point above, the PC should get a huge amount of options when we build our lightsaber. Not just the color of crystal, but what parts we want to use. What kind of finish and details will it include. The sheer amount of custom lightsaber mods that exist should prove how much players would appreciate that level of customization. Better yet, make your character go through the process of assembling your lightsaber from scratch, using peices you have to either find or craft yourself.

Lightsaber Blade Animations: And to finally wrap up my lightsaber ideas, let's see that blade animated! When I first played kotor and found enhancing crystals, the descriptions claimed that it would change the look of my blade, but I was sorrowly dissapointed that it didn't happen. I could imagine dozens of great ways my energy blade could be animated to match those descriptions, and it would go a long way in making each lightsaber more unique, again like I said above.

Show Everything on your PC: I liked that the first two games would show what armor and headgear you were wearing, but I would like to see it taken to the next level. If I have a wrist mounted energy shield, I want to see it. If I have a lightsaber or blaster pistol in reserve, I want to see it hanging from my belt. If I'm throwing a grenade I want to see my character actually pull it from his pack. Gloves, implants, belts, layers of robes, let's see it all!

Dark Side and Light Side Transitions: Sometimes I feel like DS players get to enjoy their role playing a little more, because they get to see a literal manifestation of their choices appear on their character. Us Light Siders should get the same treatment, making our PC more healthy and luminious looking as we grow stronger in the Light Side.

More Clothes, More Options: Yes I admit it, I love dressing up my characters :P. I don't want a single outfit that covers my entire character; I want to choose the underwear, boots, pants, robes/armor/clothes, and finally cloaks. I want to choose whether my Jedi Robes will use a cloak, I want to choose whether the hood will be up or down. The more choices I have with my character's appearance, the closer I feel to playing him.

More Mini Games: Even the most devout follower of the light, or decrepit disciple of the dark needs a little break sometimes. I want more swoop racing, pazaak tournaments, dueling arenas, just fun little distractions. Let them integrate themselves into the story, and get the NPC's involved too! Impress that special lady on your team by taking first place in the big swoop championships, etc.

Customize EVERYTHING!: After you're done playing all those mini games, you may find a couple thousand credits burning a hole in your pocket. If you're not hurting for equipment, why not spend that on improving your image a bit? Give the Ebon Hawk the remodling and repairs its desperatly needed for the last decade. Give it a new coat of paint, decals, replace the Hyper Drive and Navi computer. Upgrade your T3's programming, trick out your Swoop Bike, or maybe comission a unique set of personal armor and weaponry.

Complex LS/DS Options: Far too often your character is confronted with extremly simplistic problems, with predictable out comes. Do I save the man to gain LS points, or do I kill him for DS? I think the best problems are the ones that aren't black and white. Perfect example was the Sunry case on Manaan; did you knowingly defend a guilty man for murder, breaking the Jedi Code? Or did you do the honest thing and turn him in, knowing that the backlash from kolto restrictions would literally kill millions of Republic Soldiers? We need more problems like this, with consequences that we will actually see later on, maybe even to come back and haunt us.

Build your Reputation: As your character tackles more difficult and dangerous missions, word should get around. Will you be welcomed in the next city or shunned? Will people praise you or purposefully cross a busy street to get away from you? Will people gasp in shock of your burning yellow eyes and grey mottled skin? Will they panic and flee from your dark presense even as you strike them down with all of your hatred, laughing maniacally? Your actions may attract new allies, or dangerous enemies, from both sides.

More Romance Options: I know not everyone is interested in pursuing these options and that's perfectly fine. But love, relationships are at the core of any great story, especially one like Star Wars. And by options I don't simply mean more characters to romance, but that your choices in game will effect how your allies will deal with you, and you to them. Will being a strong force of good cause you to alienate your darker allies or redeem them? TSL was off to a good start on this idea, but didn't follow through.

Cameos a' plenty: I want to see the crew from both games get their 5 minutes of fame in the game, if not join your crew. I don't want to finish this game and keep wondering what happened to my missing allies.

It's a pretty big list, and that's probably not all of it either, but I think most people would agree with me that this is a good list of improvements. Please over look any spelling or grammatical errors, I'm extremly tired right now. @_@

Hallucination
02-09-2006, 12:02 AM
Please over look any spelling or grammatical errors, I'm extremly tired right now. @_@
That was at me, wasn't it?

I like most of your ideas, mainly because the 1)Don't change the combat system 2)Aren't main storyline ideas. I would love more romance plots, especially since they were missing in K2. And I like many of your ideas about the visuals, but I'll only take them if the story is done first. And I have another idea: add different animations for different forms.

The_Mandalore
02-09-2006, 12:23 AM
PC Character Creation Engine: I absolutely loved how in Star Wars Galaxies that I was able to edit literally everything about my character; from height and weight, skin color and hair style, even small facial features. I don't care if I'm playing as Revan, the Exile, or a new PC, I just don't want to choose from a collection of pre-made character models like the first two games.
Agreed. In KOTOR II I felt especially limited to my character's face. At least basic customizable options like skin color and hair stlye are a must.

Unique NPC's: Since I'm already on the subject of the character creation engine, this should be applied to the entire game. Major NPC's could have their appearance created from the same engine, and random minor NPC's (like civilians) could be randomnly generated on the spot, so we're not constantly seeing the same generic characters being repeated at nausiem.
Disagree. Randomly generating civilians will suck up RAM like a vacuum. I rather see the same people over and over than get some KOTOR I Dantooine lag.

Custom Lightsabers: A Jedi / Sith's lightsaber is unique, the most personal possesion they have. Therefore it doesn't make sense that they should all look exactly the same. Just like the talented people behind the USM for TSL did, every major lightsaber weilding NPC in the game should have a lightsaber completly unique to them.
Agreed.

Custom PC Lightsaber: Just as, if not more important than my point above, the PC should get a huge amount of options when we build our lightsaber. Not just the color of crystal, but what parts we want to use. What kind of finish and details will it include. The sheer amount of custom lightsaber mods that exist should prove how much players would appreciate that level of customization. Better yet, make your character go through the process of assembling your lightsaber from scratch, using peices you have to either find or craft yourself.
Strongly agreed. Maybe making a mini-game out of it?

Lightsaber Blade Animations: And to finally wrap up my lightsaber ideas, let's see that blade animated! When I first played kotor and found enhancing crystals, the descriptions claimed that it would change the look of my blade, but I was sorrowly dissapointed that it didn't happen. I could imagine dozens of great ways my energy blade could be animated to match those descriptions, and it would go a long way in making each lightsaber more unique, again like I said above.
Agreed.

Show Everything on your PC: I liked that the first two games would show what armor and headgear you were wearing, but I would like to see it taken to the next level. If I have a wrist mounted energy shield, I want to see it. If I have a lightsaber or blaster pistol in reserve, I want to see it hanging from my belt. If I'm throwing a grenade I want to see my character actually pull it from his pack. Gloves, implants, belts, layers of robes, let's see it all!
Agreed. Including NPCs.

Dark Side and Light Side Transitions: Sometimes I feel like DS players get to enjoy their role playing a little more, because they get to see a literal manifestation of their choices appear on their character. Us Light Siders should get the same treatment, making our PC more healthy and luminious looking as we grow stronger in the Light Side.
I'm dark side so I'm pretty biased. :sithk:

More Clothes, More Options: Yes I admit it, I love dressing up my characters :P. I don't want a single outfit that covers my entire character; I want to choose the underwear, boots, pants, robes/armor/clothes, and finally cloaks. I want to choose whether my Jedi Robes will use a cloak, I want to choose whether the hood will be up or down. The more choices I have with my character's appearance, the closer I feel to playing him.
Agreed. But, I don't want 40 kinds of obsolete armor like in KOTOR I and TSL. Make each armor have its own avantages and disadvantages! Like in KOTOR I, after I gave Canderous Calo Nord's armor, I never changed Canderous' armor again.

More Mini Games: Even the most devout follower of the light, or decrepit disciple of the dark needs a little break sometimes. I want more swoop racing, pazaak tournaments, dueling arenas, just fun little distractions. Let them integrate themselves into the story, and get the NPC's involved too! Impress that special lady on your team by taking first place in the big swoop championships, etc.
Dueling=Love it. Wished there was more.
Pazaak= I hate Pazaak. Never even bothered to learn how to play it properly.
Swoop= Agreed. They should put a track on almost every planet.

Customize EVERYTHING!: After you're done playing all those mini games, you may find a couple thousand credits burning a hole in your pocket. If you're not hurting for equipment, why not spend that on improving your image a bit? Give the Ebon Hawk the remodling and repairs its desperatly needed for the last decade. Give it a new coat of paint, decals, replace the Hyper Drive and Navi computer. Upgrade your T3's programming, trick out your Swoop Bike, or maybe comission a unique set of personal armor and weaponry.
Agreed. After a while you just have nothing to do with your 40,000+ credits!

Complex LS/DS Options: Far too often your character is confronted with extremly simplistic problems, with predictable out comes. Do I save the man to gain LS points, or do I kill him for DS? I think the best problems are the ones that aren't black and white. Perfect example was the Sunry case on Manaan; did you knowingly defend a guilty man for murder, breaking the Jedi Code? Or did you do the honest thing and turn him in, knowing that the backlash from kolto restrictions would literally kill millions of Republic Soldiers? We need more problems like this, with consequences that we will actually see later on, maybe even to come back and haunt us.
Agreed. But make it so that you atually care about the person's fate. I couldnt care less about that adultering Sunry! :smash:

Build your Reputation: As your character tackles more difficult and dangerous missions, word should get around. Will you be welcomed in the next city or shunned? Will people praise you or purposefully cross a busy street to get away from you? Will people gasp in shock of your burning yellow eyes and grey mottled skin? Will they panic and flee from your dark presense even as you strike them down with all of your hatred, laughing maniacally? Your actions may attract new allies, or dangerous enemies, from both sides.
Agreed.

More Romance Options: I know not everyone is interested in pursuing these options and that's perfectly fine. But love, relationships are at the core of any great story, especially one like Star Wars. And by options I don't simply mean more characters to romance, but that your choices in game will effect how your allies will deal with you, and you to them. Will being a strong force of good cause you to alienate your darker allies or redeem them? TSL was off to a good start on this idea, but didn't follow through.
I guess it would not hurt if LA threw in more romance but frankly I don't care. I never pursue the romances anyway. The storyline (Kotor I) is so enthralling I could care less if my character is kissing Bastila!

Cameos a' plenty: I want to see the crew from both games get their 5 minutes of fame in the game, if not join your crew. I don't want to finish this game and keep wondering what happened to my missing allies.
Agreed. I hated TSL's unfinished ending. We never knew what happened to.... anyone!

All in all, good ideas. LucasArts should pay heed.

Master Kavar
02-09-2006, 02:04 AM
That was at me, wasn't it?

No it wasn't aimed at anybody in particular...To be honest I don't post all that often in The Unknown Regions board and I don't even know you yet. ^_^;

I like most of your ideas, mainly because the 1)Don't change the combat system 2)Aren't main storyline ideas. I would love more romance plots, especially since they were missing in K2. And I like many of your ideas about the visuals, but I'll only take them if the story is done first. And I have another idea: add different animations for different forms.

Thanks for your feedback. I don't feel that any dramatic changes need to be made to the battle system, the D20 D&D turn based system works just fine for me. I do actually have storyline ideas, but I didn't want to bog down some good suggestions that might actually be recognized with my personal plots that would never be used due to legal issues and such.

About your other point, I don't think (atleast I hope) that as gamers we'll have to accept mediocre graphics in exchange for a good story, or vice versa. We're moving into the next generation of gaming consoles after all, we should expect both.

Disagree. Randomly generating civilians will suck up RAM like a vacuum. I rather see the same people over and over than get some KOTOR I Dantooine lag.

While I agree that it wouldn't be worth slowing the game down to a crawl, I think the X-Box 360 could handle it just fine. It's a powerful little machine.

I guess it would not hurt if LA threw in more romance but frankly I don't care. I never pursue the romances anyway. The storyline (Kotor I) is so enthralling I could care less if my character is kissing Bastila!

Heh I figured someone would say that, and like I said that's fine. I know not everybody opts to follow the romance, and it wouldn't be a great RPG if it forced you to. But I know I speak for many people when I say it would be really missed if the third game messed this up.

JediMaster12
02-09-2006, 02:11 AM
Yes your ideas are good or as Darth InSidious would say nice little "doohickeys." These would be nice extras because I've said before that a completed storyline takes the shotgun seat on this ride. Next in line would be the visuals, just as long as it stays within the game engine parameters.

Phaedra36
02-09-2006, 02:21 AM
@Master Kavar I definitely agree with the more romance options. First of all, the love stories of Revan and his/her love interest and the Exile's love interest need to be completed. Love can branch out into many elements such as...
Mercy, Betrayal, Revenge, Lust, Sorrow, Anger, Happiness. Also love triangles can develop and would enforce one of the above options.It does not have to be a soap opera, I am just saying that especially if Obsidian is making the third one..these would be the perfect elements for a darker storyline. Besides, they are going to Sith infested planets on the Outer Rim.
Also Kavar, what do you think of expanding the alignments like particularily evil? I know being chaotic evil is good for laughs sometimes (ex. HK-47), but for once I would like to play an evil character that was cunning and charismatic and was not like, "Kill them all!!" When I think of trying to explain my point better, I think of the typical vampire and the persona that seems to float about them.

Master Kavar
02-09-2006, 03:30 AM
...Also Kavar, what do you think of expanding the alignments like particularily evil? I know being chaotic evil is good for laughs sometimes (ex. HK-47), but for once I would like to play an evil character that was cunning and charismatic and was not like, "Kill them all!!" ...

Absolutely, I expect, nay, demand that the game offer a wide variety of responses varying from wise and light side as Yoda, to sinister and cunning as Darth Sidious. To be fair though TSL did a pretty good job in that respect, but left much room for improvement.

JediMaster12
02-09-2006, 03:44 AM
To be honest, the one I consider really evil though she bugged me was Kreia. Her dialogue was awesome for the tone of a Sith for they operate often through manipulation, at least the successful ones like Palpatine. HK was funny because he was a droid and being as such could not understand the full dynamics of human emotion.

Cygnus Q'ol
02-09-2006, 01:22 PM
To be honest, the one I consider really evil though she bugged me was Kreia. Her dialogue was awesome for the tone of a Sith for they operate often through manipulation, at least the successful ones like Palpatine. HK was funny because he was a droid and being as such could not understand the full dynamics of human emotion.

That's very interesting how Kreia can bug you. Some of your philosophy sounds erily like her. I wonder sometimes JediMaster12, if your feelings on your alignment are clear. :sithk:

Back on topic: Many of the topics that were brought up have been rehashed over and over 'till I'm twilek colored in the face.

...anyway,
Initial customization of the main character's features, lightsaber colors/animation, clothes/weapon options and minigames are all topics that would enhance the overall feeling of the gameplay. I would welcome them.

However, The most important issue, I feel, is the storyline, the connection between the other two stories, interaction between characters and (of course) the ending.
I do agree with the idea of expanding the relationships between the MC and possible love interests throughout the story. That was definately missing.

'Boss battles' have to become more entertaining though. Malak, Scion, Nihilus,
Bandon, and even Kreia were just too easy and a bit anti-climactic.
It was a little disheartening to work hard at getting to their level just to cut them down as easily as a lowly sith minion.

JediMaster12
02-09-2006, 01:46 PM
Maybe it's because I don't like manipulation which is what she did essentially. I just don't like it and I can't see the justification of it except to meet one's own ends. Then again someone could say that persuasion is a form of manipulation.
I do see your point on the boss battles but to tell ya the truth, the very first time I play, it is hard. The second time, it's easy. I don't know, maybe it's just getting used to a game. Still, it would be interesting to have a bad guy tough to beat like Grevious in Ep 3 game.

Vibro
02-09-2006, 01:50 PM
PC Character Creation Engine: I absolutely loved how in Star Wars Galaxies that I was able to edit literally everything about my character; from height and weight, skin color and hair style, even small facial features. I don't care if I'm playing as Revan, the Exile, or a new PC, I just don't want to choose from a collection of pre-made character models like the first two games.

For me this is a must. The lack of options in K2 especially was dire.

Unique NPC's: Since I'm already on the subject of the character creation engine, this should be applied to the entire game. Major NPC's could have their appearance created from the same engine, and random minor NPC's (like civilians) could be randomnly generated on the spot, so we're not constantly seeing the same generic characters being repeated at nausiem.

This would eat up tons of space, I don't think it's really necessary.

Custom Lightsabers: A Jedi / Sith's lightsaber is unique, the most personal possesion they have. Therefore it doesn't make sense that they should all look exactly the same. Just like the talented people behind the USM for TSL did, every major lightsaber weilding NPC in the game should have a lightsaber completly unique to them.

I totally agree.

Dark Side and Light Side Transitions: Sometimes I feel like DS players get to enjoy their role playing a little more, because they get to see a literal manifestation of their choices appear on their character. Us Light Siders should get the same treatment, making our PC more healthy and luminious looking as we grow stronger in the Light Side.

I tend to play DS so this wouldn't affect me all that much.

Complex LS/DS Options: Far too often your character is confronted with extremly simplistic problems, with predictable out comes. Do I save the man to gain LS points, or do I kill him for DS? I think the best problems are the ones that aren't black and white. Perfect example was the Sunry case on Manaan; did you knowingly defend a guilty man for murder, breaking the Jedi Code? Or did you do the honest thing and turn him in, knowing that the backlash from kolto restrictions would literally kill millions of Republic Soldiers? We need more problems like this, with consequences that we will actually see later on, maybe even to come back and haunt us.[/quote

For me, this is one of the most frustrating issues on the games. There is no challenge to get LS or DS points. For us DS players lets have some torturing options :sithk:. Or anything rather than just killing them.

[quote]Build your Reputation: As your character tackles more difficult and dangerous missions, word should get around. Will you be welcomed in the next city or shunned? Will people praise you or purposefully cross a busy street to get away from you? Will people gasp in shock of your burning yellow eyes and grey mottled skin? Will they panic and flee from your dark presense even as you strike them down with all of your hatred, laughing maniacally? Your actions may attract new allies, or dangerous enemies, from both sides.


Brilliant idea :).

More Romance Options: I know not everyone is interested in pursuing these options and that's perfectly fine. But love, relationships are at the core of any great story, especially one like Star Wars. And by options I don't simply mean more characters to romance, but that your choices in game will effect how your allies will deal with you, and you to them. Will being a strong force of good cause you to alienate your darker allies or redeem them? TSL was off to a good start on this idea, but didn't follow through.

Although the romance was good in K1 it was never anything that bothered me all that much. Aslong as the storyline is great and complete then I'm not to fussed about romance.

Cygnus Q'ol
02-09-2006, 02:04 PM
Maybe it's because I don't like manipulation which is what she did essentially. I just don't like it and I can't see the justification of it except to meet one's own ends. Then again someone could say that persuasion is a form of manipulation.
I do see your point on the boss battles but to tell ya the truth, the very first time I play, it is hard. The second time, it's easy. I don't know, maybe it's just getting used to a game. Still, it would be interesting to have a bad guy tough to beat like Grevious in Ep 3 game.

Yes, that's more of what I mean. Unlike most, I like surprises.
I would like to be somewhat shocked when I finally meet up with a nemesis.
I need a challenge.

I admit, I did have a problem when I first defeated Kreia though.
That's because I didn't know to just run around the pillar and juice up before confronting the three sabers.
After that, it's all she wrote.

igyman
02-09-2006, 02:29 PM
I agree with all of your ideas except the Unique NPC thing. While I do agree that those NPC's with who you can talk should have unique faces, I don't think all of them should have unique faces (and I couldn't care less if the XBox 360 can handle it, I'm a PC owner), since you don't really look at every passer-by to remember his/her face.

Vaelastraz
02-09-2006, 03:13 PM
About challenging boss fights:

Imo all those boss fights in kotor just cannot be made entertaining or challenging, that it the problem of a D&D based RPG, unless you fight them as a whole group and that enemy is much more powerful than any single person in your group. At least for me a perfect example for this is Jon Irenicus in Baldurs Gate II.
I dont care for challenging opponent if that is just that they got more lifepoints/defense/attack power -> stats. Either fight them with your team with a special strategy or have them have unique powers.

All your ideas, Master Kavar, seem fine to me except:
"
Lightsaber Blade Animations: And to finally wrap up my lightsaber ideas, let's see that blade animated! When I first played kotor and found enhancing crystals, the descriptions claimed that it would change the look of my blade, but I was sorrowly dissapointed that it didn't happen. I could imagine dozens of great ways my energy blade could be animated to match those descriptions, and it would go a long way in making each lightsaber more unique, again like I said above."

Do u really want a "fiery" or "icy" lightsaber? I dont want the appearance of the blade changed. In every movie, every game it is always a blade of pure energy. Keep it like that. To be honest, that Power Attack animation where there is that glow around sabers annoys me already.

JediMaster12
02-09-2006, 04:10 PM
I think maybe Master Kavar was thinking along the lines of a visible change in the power and coloring of the blade when you upgrade with the power crystals. That is not a bad idea and neither is one RQD made about a more visible indication of lightsaber forms.

Point Man
02-09-2006, 04:29 PM
Wow! Those are some great ideas. I can tell you put a lot of thought into it. I hope the devs do, too.

CountVerilucus
02-09-2006, 08:23 PM
I want a better way to earn huge amounts of credits besides swoop racing. the swoop racing in this game got too hard for me, and i got tired of reloading saves.

Phaedra36
02-09-2006, 11:06 PM
I do agree that there should be better boss fights. Perhaps it can be more than just the main character. After all, you did spend all this time leveling up your other characters..

darth_traya
02-10-2006, 12:39 AM
I would like to see the lightsaber forms used better. I would like to see different animations for all the forms and the bonuses having greater effects on combat. Juyo was by far the most powerful (for guardians, obviously) but i would like to see all of them have greater advantages.