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Phaedra36
02-09-2006, 02:44 AM
Alright guys, time for a whole new spin. Instead of voicing what we want and expect, lets tell the people what we don't want! Here's my list on what I hope is not in K3.
1) A whole new cast of characters.. Um what would be the point in a role playing game if loose ends were never tied from the I and II? Also, K3 should be epic and what is more epic than fighting alongside your favorite characters from I and II that happened to save the galaxy already?
2) All of the planets that were on K1. Dantooine, I think it is time we moved up to bigger and better horizons.. such as Corsucant! Korriban because we are going to the Outer Rim where True Sith live. Going to Korriban would just seem redundant since I already have to be surrounded by tons of Sith! As for Manaan and Kashyyk, they just did not seem to make that much of an impact on me for me to really like them.
3) Less Dialouge options. I felt like I hardly got to know any of my characters with the limited selection! In fact, we need more.
4) Canderous. For goodness sake, let the man start up his Mandalorian clan. Good as a cameo, bad as a party member in my opinion.
5) Wookies. Their voice always seems like they are crying, it is depressing really. Also, they always have this sad story to tell about being slavers >.>
6) Bastila lecturing me if she happens to be a party member. Or Carth and his whining as well. I like them both, but they can have such awesome personalities if they just expanded their roles more. :)
7) Atton thinking he is no good. He needs to just tell the F Exile he loves her, and friggin be more Han Soloish. He was -thisclose- to being the best male character, don't screw it up for K3 please!^^

Diego Varen
02-09-2006, 03:11 AM
1) A whole new cast of characters.. Um what would be the point in a role playing game if loose ends were never tied from the I and II? Also, K3 should be epic and what is more epic than fighting alongside your favorite characters from I and II that happened to save the galaxy already?

I half agree/disagree with this. Several of the characters from KOTOR and TSL should return. However several new characters wouldn't hurt would it?


2) All of the planets that were on K1. Dantooine, I think it is time we moved up to bigger and better horizons.. such as Corsucant! Korriban because we are going to the Outer Rim where True Sith live. Going to Korriban would just seem redundant since I already have to be surrounded by tons of Sith! As for Manaan and Kashyyk, they just did not seem to make that much of an impact on me for me to really like them.

Agreed. Courscant should replace Dantooine, Korriban should return if it had new tombs to go to, Kashyyyk could return if we wanted to see Zaalbar becoming the next Chieftain and Mannan would only be good if the Selkath weren't so sad to you.


3) Less Dialouge options. I felt like I hardly got to know any of my characters with the limited selection! In fact, we need more.

I not sure. It could be great to have more Dialouge options, but it might make the game a bit complex.


4) Canderous. For goodness sake, let the man start up his Mandalorian clan. Good as a cameo, bad as a party member in my opinion.

Well maybe he could be a temporary Party Member. Maybe he could die in a worthy battle or something.


5) Wookies. Their voice always seems like they are crying, it is depressing really. Also, they always have this sad story to tell about being slavers.

It's Wookiees. Disagree. Wookiees are a part of Star Wars and they need to be in it. They shouldn't be a Party Member and yeah for a change stop talking about them being Slavers.


6) Bastila lecturing me if she happens to be a party member. Or Carth and his whining as well. I like them both, but they can have such awesome personalities if they just expanded their roles more.

Maybe Bastila and Carth could grow up a bit now it's like five years later. And like you said, they have a lot of potential.


7) Atton thinking he is no good. He needs to just tell the F Exile he loves her, and friggin be more Han Soloish. He was -thisclose- to being the best male character, don't screw it up for K3 please!^^

Agreed. Maybe Atton can forget about his shady past and look to the future. I mean he is the next Han Solo after all. If he got together with Carth, think of the conversations they'd have or Atton trying to chat up Bastila. That would be great.

The_Mandalore
02-09-2006, 08:29 AM
4) Canderous. For goodness sake, let the man start up his Mandalorian clan. Good as a cameo, bad as a party member in my opinion.
Agreed. Although I won't be mad if they put him as a party member, seeing him with a full-fledged Mandalorian battle brigade at his back would be a much nicer sight. :twogun:

Cygnus Q'ol
02-09-2006, 09:37 AM
1). Another weak ending. I was slightly dissappointed at the anti-climactic ending to TSL. Talk about a wound in the force, that was a wound to the series.

2). The same old planets. The refreshing thing about this whole series is the exploration and interaction in new enviroments. If we *have* to go back to Korriban, Dantooine or Tatooine, then at least make it severely different than the previous game(s).

3). Stagnant clothing. Robes and armour were upgraded from KotOR to TSL, but they need to go that one step further. I'd like to see a bit more options for in game armour and weapons modifications. I hope they fix the Jal-Shay and Zeison-Sha armoured robes as well. They were just too ugly to wear.

JediMaster12
02-09-2006, 12:14 PM
3). Stagnant clothing. Robes and armour were upgraded from KotOR to TSL, but they need to go that one step further. I'd like to see a bit more options for in game armour and weapons modifications. I hope they fix the Jal-Shay and Zeison-Sha armoured robes as well. They were just too ugly to wear.

You hit that one on mark. The clothing could look a bit more varied on the like the ordinary citizens, they kind of look pasted on and the faces looked like manikins. The Jal-Shay armour could use a new look too.

Point Man
02-09-2006, 01:04 PM
A whole new cast of characters
I would like the droids to return as party members. The others could come back as non-party members, except Canderous. I would like to see him return as a party member, so he could lead the Mandalorian clans in a suicide mission that would aid the pc in his battle against The True Sith. Let him go out in a blaze of glory, and let Kreia's prediction be damned!

Dantooine.
Agreed. Move on to Coruscant and the real Jedi Temple.

Korriban.
I think there is still a lot of potential left for Korriban. After all, it is where the original fallen Jedi went. However, there needs to be more than just the decrepit Sith Academy and an extra tomb. There could be a lot to learn about the Sith still buried there.

My list of things to avoid:
1) Kreia in any form. If she hates The Force so much, why would she use it to come back as a Force Ghost?

2) Scenarios where the game automatically takes you somewhere. I know in KOTOR, you had to go to the Unknown Planet and then to the Star Forge, but at least you directed the ship there. I hated when TSL whisked me away to Malachor V without my input. I also hated when the game automatically moved into the Nar Shaddaa warehouse mission with T3-M4. Let me figure out where I need to go. That's part of the fun of the game.

3) Another weak ending.
'Nuff said.

4) Bald Jedi Masters with handlebar mustaches.

Diego Varen
02-09-2006, 01:55 PM
Things I don't want in KOTORIII:

1. Pre-Made heads - Most games now allow you to make your own heads (So why can't KOTOR?). Most of the heads from TSL weren't very good. One looked like Sam of Lord Of The Rings and one head had a good potrait, which looked nothing like he did in 3D. It is time to make your own heads and customise their facial features.

2. No Side Quests - In KOTOR, Side Quests were great in KOTOR. There wasn't enough in TSL. Your Party Members should be intresting and have an intresting background.

3. An Unfinished Game - If Obsidian had finished TSL, they could have made it better than KOTOR. It would also make more sense. There is a clip on TSL called The Death Of The Ebon Hawk. It is all battered and then when it rescues you at the end, it is all new and clean. If Obsidian make the next game, here's some advice. It doesn't matter whether a game is released for Christmas, but if it released later. Take your time. You can spend a year on it if you want.

Phaedra36
02-09-2006, 02:29 PM
@The_Mandalore That would be a nice sight, I would like to see Canderous in all his glory with a huge Mandalorian clan at his end. Perhaps when Kreia said it would die out, maybe it could die out honorably. You know like all of the Mandalorians die out during the war, and they finally get the honor and glory they deserve against some of the biggest badasses in the Outer Rim.
@Pottsie Let me rephrase :) I don't want all the characters in there from I and II, but the ones that people really enjoyed. In my opinion, Carth,Bastila, Atton, Visas, and the droids should be available party members. If you really want to break it down, it could be dependant on Revan or the Exile's gender. I want some new people, with awesome personalities.
Anyway.. to continue the list of things I don't want.
1) The turret game. At least if it is going to be in there, make it more interesting. Make me get points or experience or if I achieve a high enough score, get a piece of awesome armor.
2) Pre-made heads. Please don't! I get tired of seeing the same faces, but with make-up on ><. Let me at least pick their eye color or hair color >.>
3) A story where I don't know who I am. I want to start out as some regular person or some slave even. I want to know all my background, and it not be that great if I play a third person. I'm not asking for much, I at least want to know who my character is instead of finding out again and again. Like someone said on the Obsidian forums, it would be cool to start off as some Gizka scum to some mean slave guy.
4) A normal cast of characters. I want to have to go save the world with a Dark Jedi or Sith Lord that decided to join my party for the greater good even if I am all the way light. I want to see some controversy, and people coming together to fight the Real Sith out there. I also would not mind seeing a couple of different races in there again, like they did in the first Kotor.

Vaelastraz
02-09-2006, 02:37 PM
1.) Force Ghosts:
I dont know why but i dont want them.

2.) Wounds in the force, Sith'ari/Chose one:
Please nothing related to that. One of the things i hated in the Kotor II story line were that Exile creates "wound" or "leaks" in the force. IMO noone should be able to actually harm the force or even destroy it. You could as well give a Sith lord the ability "Force KIll": Instantly kills someone, and there is nothing u can do about it :rolleyes:

3.) Recylcing:
Except the droids i want new characters, i want new planets as well! Please please let us explore new interesting planets!

4.) The True Sith arrive as a totally superior race and only YOU!!!!111 can stop them. As it happens, you of course are an extremely powerful jedi/sith. Why you didnt interfere in the mandalorian and the jedi civil war or any other war then? Well... you prefered to be left alone..but now you will act!! :rolleyes:



and maybe: 5.) A soldier shouting: For the republic! XD

igyman
02-09-2006, 02:52 PM
Things I don't want in KoTOR 3:

A new main character - who needs a third one.

Jedi Robes TSL look - although the TSL robes looked nice, the story is NOT happening in Yoda's, Obi-Wan's and Luke Skywalker's time, it's happening 4000 - 5000 years before, so Jedi robes should look more like the ones from KoTOR 1, it really improves the atmosphere in the game and makes you feel like you are really in that age (I mean, do you really think the Jedi wore the same type of robes for over 4000 years?).

Ebon Hawk - unless you were playing as Revan again (what I strongly support), the excuse for a third character getting the Hawk would really ruin the game.

A Wookie party member - We've had them in the first two parts, although in TSL you could choose between Hanharr and Mira (LS/DS alignment), a Wookie in your party for the third time is too much, the devs should be more original.

Planets from the first two parts - except for maybe Korriban, Manaan and/or the Rakatan planet.

The old characters not making any kind of appearance - some of the old characters (especially HK-47) should even join your party for the third time, but not more than three of them, the rest of your party should be composed of completely new characters. As for those who don't get to be in your party, you should at least meet them on the planets you're visiting and complete quests for them.

Bugs that can ruin the storyline - TSL had quite a few of them (for example there was an option in your conversation with the Jedi Masters at the rebuilt Jedi Enclave which would instantly end the conversation and kill the masters, making you to have go talk to Kreia to finish the enclave scene).

Well, that's all for now.

Vladimir-Vlada
02-09-2006, 03:08 PM
I don't want:

1. A new PC-There is no room for a new one. The only protagonists now are Revan and the Exile.
2. No apperances of old party members-They are essential also.
3. Small areas-Really, please.
4. Heads like in TSL-I just didn't like them, that's all.
5. Influence system whose end goal is to make your party members become Jedi-I didn't like it because the characters didn't end up very well.

That's it for now.

igyman
02-09-2006, 03:28 PM
Yeah, I forgot about the TSL heads and the turn-almost-every-party-member-into-a-Jedi thing didn't turn out to be that great in the end.

Darth InSidious
02-09-2006, 04:51 PM
I DONT want:

A New PC,

A new ship,

A new line-up of characters,

A completely new story with nothing to do with the old one.

Anything else can go hang.

Vibro
02-09-2006, 04:56 PM
I don't want:

A new PC - Rather Revan or The Exile
The Ebon Hawk - Out dated now, time for a new ship I think
Crappy Alien speak - They have about two sentences regardless of what they say. It is so repetitive, this really needs sorting
So much armour - There's far too much pointless armour for me.

FiEND_138
02-09-2006, 06:07 PM
Things I don't want....

A changed combat system. IE; molesting it into an FPS real time hack 'n slash.

Playing as Revan or the Exile. New PC all the way.

A team made up of nothing but returning characters. The droids & maybe Candalore are fine, but no one else.

Former party members who could have died earlier in the series returning. They should atleast have a dialog option to say who survived & who didn't (I'm mostly talking about Bastila's optional beheading in K1).

*Edit*

Force ghosts. The same as a poster above, I don't know why it's just something I really don't want to see.

A new ship. I really like the Hawk. Should they replace it, hopefully you don't get stuck with some huge cruiser where you spend 10 minutes trying to track down a party member just to learn backstory.

Back alley thug - give me all of your credits or die - representation of the Sith. I'd rather be more cunning, manipulative. Atleast this was improved some in tSL compared to K1.

A single time in the turret mini game. That kind of pissed me off with tSL that you only get one shot at it, (well 2 if you count Peargus but I usually let them all on board to farm XP anyway) though that may be the shooter part of me talking. ;) Hopefully they bring back the random encounters, leave them optional but atleast bring them back.

@ Hawke.... Just doin my job. :D

CountVerilucus
02-09-2006, 08:21 PM
I want cooler looking armor. It would have benefited some in my party and myself to wear armor. But the armor you can get is so bad looking, they look like tights. Thats why I never had anybody wear armor, and i still did good in the game.

I dont care how much she whines, but I want Bastilla.

RedHawke
02-09-2006, 09:54 PM
Things I don't want....

A changed combat system. IE; molesting it into an FPS real time hack 'n slash.

Playing as Revan or the Exile. New PC all the way.

A team made up of nothing but returning characters. The droids & maybe Candalore are fine, but no one else.

Former party members who could have died earlier in the series returning. They should atleast have a dialog option to say who survived & who didn't (I'm mostly talking about Bastila's optional beheading in K1).
Quoted for emphasis! ;) (Also to save my fingers from extra wear and tear) :xp:

Phaedra36
02-09-2006, 11:00 PM
I don't want ...
1)Playing as just Revan or the Exile. A new pc to spark things up with a few new characters and a lot of the returning characters would be ideal for me.
2)Plotholes. I want every nook and cranny of this storyline finished by the end of K3. I don't care how many people want Bastila and not Carth, etc. The people that have made a strong impact in the storyline should deserve their fair ending, not just tossed aside.
3) Always having to walk around on foot. Let us have landspeeders :)
4) Quests that are mainly composed of killing. I liked doing side-quests that had different stuff to do, such as the murder trial in k1.
5) Always starting out as a Jedi. Let the people that love to be evil start out as Sith or an apprentice to the Sith^^. I would also like the option of actually being trained at a Sith Academy instead of the usual Jedi Academy.

innerfears
02-10-2006, 12:28 AM
The only thing I can think of is the combat system... if I wanted it in real-time I'd play Jedi Outcast/Academy.

Buzz1978
02-10-2006, 03:20 AM
For me it's all about if...then

1) If they really bring back the Ebon Hawk, then I want a *really* good excuse, in TSL a good excuse would have been sufficient... How did it happen, that it was the Exile's ship all of a sudden?

2) I have no problem with most of the old party members (except Disciple, Goto, Hanharr) if they are interesting! I.e. Visas is pretty cool, but you can speak with her a single time, then she told you pretty much everything she had to tell at all. That's boring. The party members are meant to be persons, so there has to be a lot of stuff to know about them. And I want them to make comments all the time like in Kotor1 - the more the better. Nothing is worse than NPCs that act like mindless zombies, no matter how you call them. And the dialogues in TSL were too serious.
If there is a Wookie in the party, then make him like Wookies should be: Hugging you, whenever you do something he likes. Or make it a female Wookie for a change.

3) For the planets it's almost the same thing. In Kotor1 Korriban was great, in TSL it was just ugly. Every planet's got to have a lot of story and I wouldn't mind if there were "real" quests which can't be solved on a single planet. There should be some new planets (Corruscant!) anyhow.

4) The faces... In Kotor1 I used exactly one female and one male head, in TSL one male and two female heads. I wouldn't mind if Kotor3 was a bit more like Kotor meets Sims2 with "customizable" heads and different parts of clothing. A RPG goes over hours and hours and I don't want the PC and party members to wear the same clothes all the time. Personally I think it would be great fun to have a noble Princess Amidala-type aboard, with different clothes and hairstyle everytime you meet her.

5) Revan and the Exile. I don't want to meet them. MacLeodCorp makes a very good point in the "KOTOR 3 Storyline"-Thread: If they are converted to NPCs, they stop being *your* Revan or Exile and become something else. Either they are mentioned but not met or you actually play as them (both). I don't want the "true sith"-story to be continued anyhow.

Things, I don't want without if/then:

5) real time combat
6) the psychotic sith-type. I want them to be real smart next time.
7) NPCs split up into desperate/good and threatening/evil
8) straight forward story - I want a major change which leads to a major change of tactics
9) stupid NPC behaviour: I give you what you want, if you give me...
10) Kotor3 being the last of the series...

Darth Sun_Tzu
02-10-2006, 03:58 AM
^ I think that the True Sith can't be avoided. They push it so much in TSL that they have to have it or the story won't follow on properly.

Buzz1978
02-10-2006, 08:15 AM
^ I think that the True Sith can't be avoided. They push it so much in TSL that they have to have it or the story won't follow on properly.

If Kotor3 is about the true sith - and I pretty much count on it even though I don't like the idea - there will be a whole lot of problems to make the story believable. In my eyes Kotor1 had a consistent and closed story and TSL reopened it in a clumsy and unnecessary way and left to many barriers for a proper sequel.

What place are the unknown regions supposed to be? Revan and the Exile have to leave all party members behind, so it seems to be a pretty dangerous place for the "spirit" and somehow Revan didn't need the Ebon Hawk there. The unknown regions are like a rollercoaster with a big sign: "Extraordinary Jedi or Sith only, no civilized places beyond this point, companions need to be left outside or expect your mind to be ripped out of your stupid skull!"

1) If it consists of a pretty normal bunch of planets, then TSL was lying.
2) If you start as a weakling and become a powerful Jedi/Sith during the game, like it's supposed to be in a StarWars RPG, then TSL was lying.
3) If you have a party, TSL was lying.
4) If you play as either Revan or the Exile, they would have to be weak to make it a RPG - see 2)
and so on...

A Kotor3 about the true sith that properly addresses the story of TSL is impossible at any rate, so I think it would be best to leave the matter be...

Ztalker
02-10-2006, 08:47 AM
@ Buzz: I agree with you on most of the points :)
Of course some cool party members need to return. Maybe fighting alongside Bastilla and Handmaiden?

You are also right about the planets. Since K3 is about the True Sith and the (almost) certain fall of the Republic, the PC should visit Coruscant and other Republic cities.

I agree with the Candarous-thing too. He should start his own clan, and give him the honor of being the coolest cameo of all time in K3. (Or something like that :p )

What i personally don't like to see:
-Frickin small 'side' levels like Paragus and so: Make a cool intro like in the movies
-Gaining a lightsaber at the end of a (too long) quest: Let us enter the action from the start!
-An arrogant teacher: Bastilla and Kreia just didn't feel right in my opinion: Maybe a more Jolee-like person, that just guides you instead of lecturing to death.
-Dantooine: With the possibilities of the X-Box 360, they can do a whole lot better: Coruscant, as suggested, could be cool.
-G0-t0: Everyne who likes to use a droid will take HK, everyone who likes to have a technician along will take a Bao-Dur. Useless!
-No customise options: I think custom robes/sabers are a must.

Good thread by the way :)

Sith_Reven
02-10-2006, 01:14 PM
Well,- I don't want all new party members, there should be a mix.
-I don't really want a lot of the same planets again, but Korriban is neccesary.
-I don't want a short game, if it comes out for the 360, I would suggest concentrating on length rather than graphics.
-This seems to be a hot topic around here, but I DON'T, under any circumstances want the new PC to be new. It has to be Revan or Exile.
-Lastly I don't want irrelevant party members like GO-TO and PLEASE no more wookies.

Jaraen
02-10-2006, 01:25 PM
I don't want to be forced to buy a PC inside a small Box with a heat problem and a noise so loud like a starting Jetengine !

Vaelastraz
02-10-2006, 01:30 PM
So many people dont want a new PC...i can understand this.
However, since Kotor II introduced a new PC, u cannot be the same one again.. you are just far too strong..
So for all those people who want Revan or the Exile, can you tell me how that should work?

Vladimir-Vlada
02-10-2006, 01:33 PM
So for all those people who want Revan or the Exile, can you tell me how that should work?
There are several threads that concern this question. There is one on the first page.

Diego Varen
02-10-2006, 01:43 PM
After thinking a bit more, here's what I don't want in KOTORIII:

1. Bad intro - KOTORIII should start off with a bang like KOTOR. After being on a Ship like the Endar Spire, then you should travel to Courscant to learn the ways of the Jedi.

2. Every Party Member From KOTOR/TSL - Every Party Member should get a cameo, however not as Party Members. Only the Droids, Carth, Bastila, Atton, Handmaiden (Or Disciple depending on Exile's gender), Visas and Bao-Dur.

3. Party Members Living - I think several main characters should die. It should also have a main impact on the game. Like Kreia says the Mandalorians will die an honourable death. So maybe Canderous could die and his death could lead to the demise of the Mandalorians.

4. Uncontinued Sidequests From KOTOR - I would like to find out what happened to everyone's Sidequest afterwards. Maybe Sunry returned to the Republic after being freed and become part of the next Jedi Council, maybe Carth could be spending time with his Son, Dustil and Bastila could be also be spending time with her Mother watching the Holocrons of her Father.

5. Boss Battles Should Be Better - Boss Battles should be better. Espicially at the end of both of the previous games. Malak and Traya both die after talking. There should be a more impressive death like throwing the main enemy out of a window or stabbing them causing them to die.

6. Easy Enemies - The enemies should be harder. For example the Sith should be brutal. They go easy on you.

7. People Not Aware Of You - People should be aware of you. Like for example, if you were on the Dark Side, people should hide their head behind their hands or if you have won a battle for the Republic, they cheer for you at the end.

8. A Bad Ending - KOTORIII should end better than the first two. I think both Parties from KOTOR and TSL should celebrate together, maybe the Force Ghosts of all the dead Jedi Masters also celebrating with you. Maybe every Species at the end should be burning Sith Corpses or something like that. It should be like the ROTJ ending.

Buzz1978
02-11-2006, 07:46 AM
What i personally don't like to see:
-Frickin small 'side' levels like Paragus

Small size wouldn't be a problem for me, if there's actually something happening. In my eyes the boring thing about Peragus was that it was pretty much uninhabitated.

-Gaining a lightsaber at the end of a (too long) quest: Let us enter the action from the start!

I would prefer to start as a Non-Jedi. Matter of taste...

-An arrogant teacher: Bastilla and Kreia just didn't feel right in my opinion: Maybe a more Jolee-like person, that just guides you instead of lecturing to death.

Kreia is a matter of taste: I didn't like her character but she fit into the storyline. As for Bastila: She wasn't so much of a teacher, so she did alright. But I agree that it would be cool to have a "proper" master for a change.

Darth Macca
02-11-2006, 10:13 AM
Is K3 definatly being put into production? I heard rumours that if it's made, we will find out the fate of Darth Revan...

Vladimir-Vlada
02-11-2006, 10:30 AM
Welcome to the Forums. Truthfully, we don't know if it is being put into production, but there is a topic called More Kotor III Rumour News! (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=150539&page=1) which was closed... And I didn't know about it...

Anyway about the second part of your question: It is really more about Obisidan's choice which fans to support. Currently there are two options:

1. Have a new PC who will find out the fate of Revan and the Exile.
2. Revan or the Exile as a PC.

It is a complicated matter, so bear in mind, nothing is confirmed. I hope you enjoy it here.

igyman
02-11-2006, 01:06 PM
It is really more about Obisidan's choice which fans to support.

It's actually Lucas Arts' choice to who will they even give the project this time, as I said somewhere already - Obsidian won't necessarily be the developer of the third part.

Phaedra36
02-11-2006, 01:23 PM
For me it's all about if...then

1) If they really bring back the Ebon Hawk, then I want a *really* good excuse, in TSL a good excuse would have been sufficient... How did it happen, that it was the Exile's ship all of a sudden?

2) I have no problem with most of the old party members (except Disciple, Goto, Hanharr) if they are interesting! I.e. Visas is pretty cool, but you can speak with her a single time, then she told you pretty much everything she had to tell at all. That's boring. The party members are meant to be persons, so there has to be a lot of stuff to know about them. And I want them to make comments all the time like in Kotor1 - the more the better. Nothing is worse than NPCs that act like mindless zombies, no matter how you call them. And the dialogues in TSL were too serious.
If there is a Wookie in the party, then make him like Wookies should be: Hugging you, whenever you do something he likes. Or make it a female Wookie for a change.

3) For the planets it's almost the same thing. In Kotor1 Korriban was great, in TSL it was just ugly. Every planet's got to have a lot of story and I wouldn't mind if there were "real" quests which can't be solved on a single planet. There should be some new planets (Corruscant!) anyhow.

4) The faces... In Kotor1 I used exactly one female and one male head, in TSL one male and two female heads. I wouldn't mind if Kotor3 was a bit more like Kotor meets Sims2 with "customizable" heads and different parts of clothing. A RPG goes over hours and hours and I don't want the PC and party members to wear the same clothes all the time. Personally I think it would be great fun to have a noble Princess Amidala-type aboard, with different clothes and hairstyle everytime you meet her.

5) Revan and the Exile. I don't want to meet them. MacLeodCorp makes a very good point in the "KOTOR 3 Storyline"-Thread: If they are converted to NPCs, they stop being *your* Revan or Exile and become something else. Either they are mentioned but not met or you actually play as them (both). I don't want the "true sith"-story to be continued anyhow.

Things, I don't want without if/then:

5) real time combat
6) the psychotic sith-type. I want them to be real smart next time.
7) NPCs split up into desperate/good and threatening/evil
8) straight forward story - I want a major change which leads to a major change of tactics
9) stupid NPC behaviour: I give you what you want, if you give me...
10) Kotor3 being the last of the series...

Why not the Ebon Hawk? I mean the Millenium Falcon was in 4-6, wasn't it? Maybe we could get a more sleek one, instead of a transport carrier thingy :)
Yeah I like stories to develop over time, which TSL did a poor job at. So far, I have gotten almost max influence w/ Bao-Dur, max with Visas, Atton, and Handmaiden. Some you just had to talk to once, others were very nonchalant and let out little tidbits (like they are supposed to) and then it seems Atton just blurted out his whole life story and never had anything else to say... I would like more dialouge options, preferably as many as K1 had. But I would want them to have more character like TSL had.
Korriban was ugly because it was blown up lol. But, I am 98% sure since the 1st and 2nd one were hinting about the True Sith, they will definitely go there. Perhaps you can find some new teachings, perhaps evil characters can take the time and train as a Sith? Not sure :) But yes, Corsucant, Corellia, Alderaan, Sleyheron...yes please!
I agree with you about the faces definitely, I want to have a more unique character >.> I guess I am kind of getting to see why Revan and the Exile would not be "yours" anymore, but how would you deal with the plotholes? I want to finish the love storylines, I want it to be epic. >.>

Buzz1978
02-11-2006, 01:32 PM
Anyway about the second part of your question: It is really more about Obisidan's choice which fans to support.

Is it really Obsidian's choice (assuming that they are actually making it - probably using the NWN2-engine)? How far is Lucas involved concerning the story of SW-games?

Vladimir-Vlada
02-11-2006, 01:37 PM
How far is Lucas involved concerning the story of SW-games?
As much as the number of fingers a horse has.

90SK
02-11-2006, 01:41 PM
It's actually Lucas Arts' choice to who will they even give the project this time, as I said somewhere already - Obsidian won't necessarily be the developer of the third part.

No, Obsidian is making it. It would be an idiotic decision to switch developers...again. Especially since OE has expressed interest in doing a third one. Switching would involve a whole lot of extra time and dilly-dallying that Lucasarts doesn't want.

igyman
02-11-2006, 01:47 PM
How do you know that? There wasn't any kind of official announcement from Lucas Arts, or Obsidian. Don't trust the rumors and speculations unsupported by facts.

90SK
02-11-2006, 01:56 PM
I'm afraid I'm unable to provide a link. It has been stated that Obsidian is willing to make KotOR III if asked by Lucasarts. It was somewhere on the OE boards, I think. But regardless, why wouldn't they be? It's illogical that they would be unprepared to make a sequel, having the material from the previous game on hand. I mean, KotOR is their gig now. The probability of Lucasarts asking them to do a sequel is much higher than Lucasarts switching developers for absolutely no reason (unless OE refuses to do it, ala Bioware).

igyman
02-11-2006, 02:07 PM
And when you mentioned Bioware's refusal - I have yet to see a link to an article/announcement/whatever where it says that Bioware refused to make the sequel. That is even more illogical (since the first part was such a success) than Lucas Arts switching developers again (especially since Obsidian's TSL didn't have nearly as much success as the first part - I'm refering to the cut content, the bugs that ruin the storyline, the storyline not adapted to completely exclude the cut content, the villains without a background story, etc.).

90SK
02-11-2006, 02:50 PM
And when you mentioned Bioware's refusal - I have yet to see a link to an article/announcement/whatever where it says that Bioware refused to make the sequel. That is even more illogical (since the first part was such a success) than Lucas Arts switching developers again

Well, you know, here's the thing: they still did it. I don't have a link. No, it isn't "rumors and speculation". I thought it was common knowledge that Bioware turned down KotOR II because they wanted to do more original titles. If you want to poke around google, be my guest.

You have to be rational. Switching a developer isn't a fun thing that companies do when they get bored. It's problematic. OE had to adapt to the engine and how it worked, and still it didn't quite come out the way they wanted. Lucasarts isn't going to tolerate that every time they make a game sequel. It’s like every time you eat a slice of pizza, you throw the rest out and then bake a new one for the next slice. Is that common practice? Of course not.

(especially since Obsidian's TSL didn't have nearly as much success as the first part - I'm refering to the cut content, the bugs that ruin the storyline, the storyline not adapted to completely exclude the cut content, the villains without a background story, etc.).

Those are pessimistic generalizations that have been addressed so many times I often dream about arguing against them.

Buzz1978
02-11-2006, 02:51 PM
As much as the number of fingers a horse has.

So LucasArts/Lucasfilms don't give a damn about whatever developers make of their universe as long as they get a cut? I find that hard to believe. Or let me rephrase: How many finger does this specific horse possess?

90SK
02-11-2006, 02:54 PM
Vlad was referring to Lucas, not Lucasarts.

Buzz1978
02-11-2006, 03:51 PM
Why not the Ebon Hawk? I mean the Millenium Falcon was in 4-6, wasn't it?

Yes, but it's Han Solo's ship at all and he's piloting it in 4&5 and in 6 his friends are using it (he only used it to get off Tatooine IIRC). In K1 the Ebon Hawk belonged to Revan. In K2 there's a big *?* how Kreia and her companions/crew/whatever get ahold of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not strictly against getting the Ebon Hawk again, but if it happens it should be without *?*. Let's say I'm the sort of guy, wo doesn't care about major plotholes as long as they look like they are supposed to be, but who is annoyed everytime in a movie when people leave a cab without paying or even closing the door...

Maybe we could get a more sleek one, instead of a transport carrier thingy :)

Ok, I would go for that. But being a Jedi you're always low on funds, so you would either have to steal it (like the Ebon Hawk, hmm...) or you're just a passenger ... and we come back to the idea of the princess who is always busy changing her clothes and hairstyle... :)

and then it seems Atton just blurted out his whole life story and never had anything else to say...

I always disliked that...

I would like more dialouge options, preferably as many as K1 had. But I would want them to have more character like TSL had.

I agree on the dialogue options but I'd prefer even more... More character in TSL? I would call it at least even.

Korriban was ugly because it was blown up lol. But, I am 98% sure since the 1st and 2nd one were hinting about the True Sith, they will definitely go there.

Why? Korriban is evil and it's the place the first fallen Jedi went to, but it's got nothing to do with the true sith.

I guess I am kind of getting to see why Revan and the Exile would not be "yours" anymore, but how would you deal with the plotholes?

see above ;) Seriously, I tried to make up a plot in the "What would be the beggining of your version of the KOTOR 3 story?"-thread which (in my eyes) takes up pretty much all of the major loose ends.

On the other hand, when TSL was published it was meant to be finished and there were no plans (only the possibility) for a sequel let alone a story for it. So I wouldn't bet on all the loose ends (or what we call loose ends) being taken care of...

I want to finish the love storylines, I want it to be epic. >.>

I admit I really enjoyed the lovestories in K1, even the one with Carth while playing as female (being male in RL and all), so I'd like to see K1-like lovestories in K3. But what is there to finish? I'd go for the epic-thing though...

igyman
02-11-2006, 03:58 PM
Well, you know, here's the thing: they still did it. I don't have a link. No, it isn't "rumors and speculation". I thought it was common knowledge that Bioware turned down KotOR II because they wanted to do more original titles. If you want to poke around google, be my guest.

Why such an angry answer? All I'm saying is that this is the first time I've heard of this common knowledge and I would simply like to know where it came from. Was that announcement made by Lucas Arts, or by Bioware (If it was anyone other than them, then that information is false)?

90SK
02-11-2006, 04:17 PM
Why such an angry answer? All I'm saying is that this is the first time I've heard of this common knowledge and I would simply like to know where it came from. Was that announcement made by Lucas Arts, or by Bioware (If it was anyone other than them, then that information is false)?

Gah, the Obsidian topic just sets me off. Sorry if I was snappish.

I myself heard it from all around. Mostly from review sites, and such. I expect that it did originate from Bioware, though. It seems to check out: They went on to make Jade Empire, and that goes into their theme of more original titles. But like I said, I don't have a link. I did search around on Google, but I think any results would be buried by now. This news would be about two years old by now.

Sorry I can't be more decisive. If anyone else has more material information, I'd appreciate if he/she would post.

Phaedra36
02-11-2006, 04:19 PM
@Buzz1978 Since I am a forum noob and don't know how to paste parts of your conversation and then write my response like you did mine, I will just do it like this.
Hm, I guess you are right on the characters having more "character" on TSL. Let me rephrase though, I think that all the characters on TSL had better potential on having better personalities if they would have just expanded the dialouge way more. Atton, Bao-Dur, and Visas would have rocked if they could just have made more dialouge and more personality to them.
Onto the next thing, well perhaps in Korriban they could find some teachings from the True Sith?
Another thing, Revan and the Exile now that I think about it could be yours because you could just make them as you make your own char. in char. customization. I mean sure..it would spoil it a little, but you would already have been expecting them anyway? Or they could just wear the robes like Mandalore wore his suit the whole time, but I like the former better :)
Buzz, the love storyline has not been completed. I will do Atton, Carth, and Bastila on why their stories should be continued for examples. For Atton: Does he ever realize that he is not a fool and tries to pursue the Exile? Does he ever tell her he loves her? Carth and Bastila: They are both waiting for their love, and they deserve to be re-united. I felt bad for them when they were talking about waiting for Revan, I just wanted to say, "Wait for k3! You will be able to then, hopefully!"

igyman
02-11-2006, 04:52 PM
@Skye:
Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.

Buzz1978
02-11-2006, 05:19 PM
@Buzz1978 Since I am a forum noob and don't know how to paste parts of your conversation and then write my response like you did mine, I will just do it like this.

I don't know if there's a better way but I just hit "quote/reply" and copy&paste the quote-tags.

Onto the next thing, well perhaps in Korriban they could find some teachings from the True Sith?

I still think Korriban has no connection to the true sith since it refers to the first fallen Jedi. I have no problem with an appearance of Korriban though as long as they make it good.

Another thing, Revan and the Exile now that I think about it could be yours because you could just make them as you make your own char. in char. customization.

The look is the least of the problems IMHO. What you can't customize is the character that everyone has in mind if he/she thinks of Revan or the Exile. If they become NPCs the personal image you have of them will definitely collide with the image which is made by the developers.

Buzz, the love storyline has not been completed.

What you actually want to see is a happy end. ;)

For Atton: Does he ever realize that he is not a fool and tries to pursue the Exile? Does he ever tell her he loves her?

I don't think he sees himself as a fool and going after the Exile? Now that would be foolish.

Carth and Bastila: They are both waiting for their love, and they deserve to be re-united.

They might deserve it but concerning the story so far I find it most unlikely to happen. The unknown regions are a really bad place at all.

Darca Lar
02-11-2006, 05:42 PM
id like to see an almost fresh new start with more mod's and a well thought out storyline. And there's no rush in it either, take your time on it and release it at the right time, not like what happened to the matrix trilogy...

Phaedra36
02-11-2006, 06:03 PM
I still think Korriban has no connection to the true sith since it refers to the first fallen Jedi. I have no problem with an appearance of Korriban though as long as they make it good.

Ok fine,lets have a whole slew of new planets. I get kinda tired of re-visiting the same ones anyway.


The look is the least of the problems IMHO. What you can't customize is the character that everyone has in mind if he/she thinks of Revan or the Exile. If they become NPCs the personal image you have of them will definitely collide with the image which is made by the developers.

True, but many people want them at least major parts of the storyline but not party members. So, it is still going to collide anyway unless they are just mentioned. But then it is going to be sucky when you come and Revan and the Exile have already mysteriously left. They just can't be dead or have moved on without your 3rd character. I guess the only way to really solve it is to not play as a 3rd character and have like 2 different versions one with the Exile and one with Revan?

What you actually want to see is a happy end. ;)

That's what Star Wars movies are all about though. Even though a few people had to die, there was a happy ending at the end. >.>

I don't think he sees himself as a fool and going after the Exile? Now that would be foolish.

Kreia says at the end if you are a girl pc,"Well, did he ever love me?" "I think you know the answer to this Exile, I know as well as he knows that he is a fool and could never offer you anything." So, why wouldn't he want to keep the love going between the F exile and him?

They might deserve it but concerning the story so far I find it most unlikely to happen. The unknown regions are a really bad place at all.

Why not? People do crazy things for love. I would want to help out the person I loved instead of twiddling my thumbs, waiting for them to come home. Carth/Bastila could get pissed at how long Revan is taking and decide to take the matters into their own hands and find out what has happened to him/her. That's the only logical explanation in my mind.

Btw.. thanks Buzz! I am not a forum n00b anymore hehe.

Buzz1978
02-11-2006, 08:02 PM
True, but many people want them at least major parts of the storyline but not party members. So, it is still going to collide anyway unless they are just mentioned. But then it is going to be sucky when you come and Revan and the Exile have already mysteriously left. They just can't be dead or have moved on without your 3rd character.

True, that's why I suggested to play them in the cutscenes.

I guess the only way to really solve it is to not play as a 3rd character and have like 2 different versions one with the Exile and one with Revan?

The game could consist of two different storylines that are related to each other and switch whenever the PC accomplishes a major step in the story (like finding a star map in K1). But the problem remains how to reset them to level1, without making it look ridiculous.

That's what Star Wars movies are all about though. Even though a few people had to die, there was a happy ending at the end. >.>

Hmm, I would hardly consider the endings of Ep.2&3&5 as happy. But don't get me wrong, I like happy endings, I just wouldn't bet on K3 having a happy end that satisfies your ideal...

Kreia says at the end if you are a girl pc,"Well, did he ever love me?" "I think you know the answer to this Exile, I know as well as he knows that he is a fool and could never offer you anything." So, why wouldn't he want to keep the love going between the F exile and him?

I got the english version of K2 just some 2 weeks ago and didn't play with a female PC yet but I really don't remember to meet the "as well as he knows he is a fool" line in the german version... I always knew localized games and movies suck...
Nevertheless if you want to play this the hard way, I counter with Kreia saying: "...I sense it has one last journey for you. You must go where Revan did..." For me the "last" is quite a setback concerning the chances to get your type of happy end. ;)
No seriously, Atton seeing himself as a fool? Just doesn't work for me, no matter what Kreia says.

Why not? People do crazy things for love. I would want to help out the person I loved instead of twiddling my thumbs, waiting for them to come home. Carth/Bastila could get pissed at how long Revan is taking and decide to take the matters into their own hands and find out what has happened to him/her.

Revan and the Exile are more powerful than every single of their party members. I believe none of them would have been helpful or they would have gone with Revan/Exile from the start, on the contrary they would have endangered them.

Phaedra36
02-11-2006, 10:50 PM
The game could consist of two different storylines that are related to each other and switch whenever the PC accomplishes a major step in the story (like finding a star map in K1). But the problem remains how to reset them to level1, without making it look ridiculous.

Well there are really 3 options.
1) You can start off as their appropriate levels but that would not work because not only could the Exile be level 50 and Revan be only level 20, but then you would get to level 100+ and would seem very silly.
2) Play as a 3rd pc and catch up to Revan, but still have the problem of the Exile's levels, voice acting, etc.
3) Or sending them back to level 1 each, but then again.. People are going to be mad if anything happens to Revan or the Exile to send them back because they hold them both (especially Revan) on a pedestal. So if they get sent to level 1, then you know people are going to whining. I guess they could both keep their memories but lose all force powers again >.>.

Hmm, I would hardly consider the endings of Ep.2&3&5 as happy. But don't get me wrong, I like happy endings, I just wouldn't bet on K3 having a happy end that satisfies your ideal...

Well I was kinda hoping Kotor 3 would be like #6 where it was all happy go lucky at the end. I guess it just really boils down on to who makes it you know? If Obsidian makes it, I can already expect a doomed ending. But then again, if there was a doomed ending there would have to be room for #4 because people just wouldn't be feel satisfied if everyone died, and the True Sith prevailed. People would be chanting, "Kotor 4! Kotor 4!" LoL. Perhaps LS ending would be happy go lucky, DS ending would be a doomed ending. I honestly doubt Obsidian would want to do 4-6 anyway unless they made mega-bucks.

I got the english version of K2 just some 2 weeks ago and didn't play with a female PC yet but I really don't remember to meet the "as well as he knows he is a fool" line in the german version... I always knew localized games and movies suck...
Nevertheless if you want to play this the hard way, I counter with Kreia saying: "...I sense it has one last journey for you. You must go where Revan did..." For me the "last" is quite a setback concerning the chances to get your type of happy end. ;)
No seriously, Atton seeing himself as a fool? Just doesn't work for me, no matter what Kreia says.

Sorry, I love debating. Okay that could go both ways. Either the Exile dies at the end, OR the last journey for him/her is the True Sith and then he/she settles down and never goes out and saves the world.
As for Atton being a fool, I could see it. I dunno, play as a girl and give me your opinion again hehe.

Revan and the Exile are more powerful than every single of their party members. I believe none of them would have been helpful or they would have gone with Revan/Exile from the start, on the contrary they would have endangered them.

Well for one Revan and I am betting the Exile would make their party members leave them, so they could not have helped them from the start. Yes, they would probably endanger them but Kreia does say Revan will need all the help he/she can get, ya know? They were both leaders, and should naturally have people to go under them. Plus if I was Carth or especially Bastila, I would grow tired and impatient and set out to find what really happened. Besides, people would want this game to be epic since I presume it would be the last of the Revan saga. How more epic can it be if people from I and II that have already saved the galaxy come for one last battle? How about the ending of the Mandalorians when Canderous dies in his last, honorable battle?

Keep criticizing me Buzz, I like it^^

Point Man
02-11-2006, 10:55 PM
In K1 the Ebon Hawk belonged to Revan. In K2 there's a big *?* how Kreia and her companions/crew/whatever get ahold of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not strictly against getting the Ebon Hawk again, but if it happens it should be without *?*.
They have to go with the Ebon Hawk again because they introduced the topic of the navicomputer being locked in TSL. Unlocking the navicomputer will be the means for you to track down where Revan went in the Unknown Regions.

RobQel-Droma
02-11-2006, 11:02 PM
I didn't read the whole thread, but I noticed a few things:

- No returning part members. Phaedra, I don't quite understand the logic of this. Since this another game, we need to have new faces and a new story. Starting over with the same people would just seem like an expansion pack. Just like they did in TSL, we need fresh personalities and characters. Otherwise, this role-playing experience gets old. Fast.

- All of the planets that were in K1. I don't quite see the point. Why visit planets that have no real importance in a new storyline? And if they did have importance in the story, there are still problems:

1) With the exception of Korriban and Dantooine, which are just a part of KOTOR, the other planets are old. Just like party members, we need new planets so the game isn't boring, and we aren't playing K1 all over again.
2) Along with that, if they have all the planets in, it means less new planets to explore, and more of the same old stuff to see. No fun in that, is there? :)
3) And if they do compensate for #2 by adding a ton of new planets also, the story will drag out most likely, and many times in the plot there will be no reason (or a lame one) why we are doing what we are doing and visiting the planets we are visiting.

That is all for now, here is my list.

1) An unfinished story. I like TSL, and the story is still good (they didn't really leave huge plot holes except for the end), but for K3, I'd rather if they had time to complete really cool planets rather than cut them.
2) A new ship. The Ebon Hawk is the Falcon, it is a part of the saga now.
3) New droids other than HK-47 and T3-M3. Just like the ship, they have taken the roles of C-3P0 and R2-D2.
4) No new party members - already explained.
5) All the planets from the first two games - also already explained.

Buzz1978
02-12-2006, 07:03 AM
Well there are really 3 options.
1) You can start off as their appropriate levels but that would not work because not only could the Exile be level 50 and Revan be only level 20, but then you would get to level 100+ and would seem very silly.
It would have worked if they would have made an AddOn to address the story of TSL. Now it's too late for that though.

2) Play as a 3rd pc and catch up to Revan, but still have the problem of the Exile's levels, voice acting, etc.
or vice versa

3) Or sending them back to level 1 each, but then again.. People are going to be mad if anything happens to Revan or the Exile to send them back because they hold them both (especially Revan) on a pedestal. So if they get sent to level 1, then you know people are going to whining. I guess they could both keep their memories but lose all force powers again >.>.
One could say that the unknown regions are such a badass place, that being a powerful Jedi is just the lower limit to keep alive there. In TSL Kreia said about Tulak Hord he was one of the last (in the known regions?) great lightsaberfighters and by comparison "we" would be like children playing with toys. It could be done without the amnesia/cut off the force stuff but it would look a bit clumsy at any rate.

Well I was kinda hoping Kotor 3 would be like #6 where it was all happy go lucky at the end. I guess it just really boils down on to who makes it you know? If Obsidian makes it, I can already expect a doomed ending.
Who else if not Obsidian? Pretty much everything else out there is realtime now, would you want *that* for K3?

Sorry, I love debating. Okay that could go both ways. Either the Exile dies at the end, OR the last journey for him/her is the True Sith and then he/she settles down and never goes out and saves the world.
Doesn't work. The exile just isn't the type to go out milking the chicken while the rest of the world burst into flames.

As for Atton being a fool, I could see it. I dunno, play as a girl and give me your opinion again hehe.
I played as a girl the first time I played TSL and a couple of times afterwards. Don't know why, but women are always my first choice... ;) But for K1 and K2 the male PCs get the better end, because they get Bastila and the Handmaiden. What woman could go for Disciple anyway? He looks like an idiot and talks like a nerd...
Ok, I could compromise Atton seeing himself as a fool, as long it is complimentary.

Well for one Revan and I am betting the Exile would make their party members leave them, so they could not have helped them from the start. Yes, they would probably endanger them but Kreia does say Revan will need all the help he/she can get, ya know?
In my eyes she meant only the Exile by that or anyone who is equally powerful. Revan wanted his old party members to get the republic prepared for the attack of the true sith and not follow him/her as soon as they're fed up with waiting. That's why he locked the navcomputer of the Ebon Hawk, so nobody would be able to follow him and since he is the only one who at least knows something about what has to be expected, it would be foolish for his old party members to follow him.

They were both leaders, and should naturally have people to go under them.
I disagree. Only because they are leaders doesn't mean they *have* to have followers - the motives of the Exiles' party members to follow him were all a bit insane if you ask me. Plus the whole true-sith-in-the-unknown-regions-leave-your-party-behin-thing sounds like a one-(wo)man-show for me.

Plus if I was Carth or especially Bastila, I would grow tired and impatient and set out to find what really happened.
There are the things you want to do and the things you realize in need to be done.

Edit: Just heard Ani DiFrancos "Swan Dive" and somehow it fits perfectly:
'cuz i don't care if they eat me alive
i've got better things to do than survive
i've got a memory of your warm skin in my hand
and i've got a vision of blue sky and dry land

How more epic can it be if people from I and II that have already saved the galaxy come for one last battle? How about the ending of the Mandalorians when Canderous dies in his last, honorable battle?
The battle should take place in the known regions IMO. And BTW taking the battle to the true sith instead of responding to their attack is the sith type of thinking.

Keep criticizing me Buzz, I like it^^
Are you sure, we're ready for such a relationship?

Phaedra36
02-12-2006, 01:11 PM
One could say that the unknown regions are such a badass place, that being a powerful Jedi is just the lower limit to keep alive there. In TSL Kreia said about Tulak Hord he was one of the last (in the known regions?) great lightsaberfighters and by comparison "we" would be like children playing with toys. It could be done without the amnesia/cut off the force stuff but it would look a bit clumsy at any rate.

I think no idea will be perfect for #3 because of the predicament they have set themselves into. But, I think this is a good idea.

Who else if not Obsidian? Pretty much everything else out there is realtime now, would you want *that* for K3?

God no, I would suck lol. Also Buzz, if there is a doomed ending people are going to be wanting #4 like I said in a previous thread. So there either has to be a happy ending and a doomed one, or Obsidian should prepare for #4.

Doesn't work. The exile just isn't the type to go out milking the chicken while the rest of the world burst into flames.

Okay, you got me. Goodbye Exile *sniff*. I hope Revan still lives though lol!

I played as a girl the first time I played TSL and a couple of times afterwards. Don't know why, but women are always my first choice... ;) But for K1 and K2 the male PCs get the better end, because they get Bastila and the Handmaiden. What woman could go for Disciple anyway? He looks like an idiot and talks like a nerd...
Ok, I could compromise Atton seeing himself as a fool, as long it is complimentary.

Don't worry, I like Atton. In fact, he is one of my favorite Kotor characters and I hope he is in the 3rd one with a lot more dialouge lines lol. As for Disciple, I was like.."Oh..my..god. He's so ugly!" Also, I was like.."Noooo!" when Kreia told me that the Disciple loved my character. I didn't even speak to him >.>. He should have felt like a fool, not Atton.

I disagree. Only because they are leaders doesn't mean they *have* to have followers - the motives of the Exiles' party members to follow him were all a bit insane if you ask me. Plus the whole true-sith-in-the-unknown-regions-leave-your-party-behin-thing sounds like a one-(wo)man-show for me.

Okay, it DOES sound like it but I am sure Obsidian would follow the last two formats which includes 10 different playable characters. So either way it won't be a one-(wo)man show because you would have other people to party with you. So I still would like to have some Kotor I and II characters, not just a whole new cast again o.0. P.S. You almost got me on that one!

There are the things you want to do and the things you realize in need to be done.

Edit: Just heard Ani DiFrancos "Swan Dive" and somehow it fits perfectly:
'cuz i don't care if they eat me alive
i've got better things to do than survive
i've got a memory of your warm skin in my hand
and i've got a vision of blue sky and dry land

As long as there is closure between every main member whether it is Carth, Bastila, Atton, etc. I don't mind. It can be good or bad, but I want to see their stories with the Exile or Revan come to an end you know? All I want is good role-play.

The battle should take place in the known regions IMO. And BTW taking the battle to the true sith instead of responding to their attack is the sith type of thinking.

Are you calling me a Sith? :sithk: Well I already am a girl..LOL.

Are you sure,we're ready for such a relationship?

Rofl.

Buzz1978
02-13-2006, 03:07 PM
Also Buzz, if there is a doomed ending people are going to be wanting #4 like I said in a previous thread. So there either has to be a happy ending and a doomed one, or Obsidian should prepare for #4.
The actual question is if they bring an end to the Revan/Exile story (I'm not even sure that K3 will be the Revan/Exile sequel most people here expect it to be). A doomed ending like "your opponents prevail and you get a smackbottom" wouldn't work anyway, because to some degree you *have* to win.
And BTW if K3 gets good, people are going to want K4 anyway.

Okay, it DOES sound like it but I am sure Obsidian would follow the last two formats which includes 10 different playable characters.
Of course they will. I just think it makes little sense to let the main plot take place in the unknown regions with party and all because it would raise the question why Revan and the Exile had to go there alone.

P.S. You almost got me on that one!
I promise to try harder next time ... or at least I would if I knew what it was I almost got you with...

It can be good or bad, but I want to see their stories with the Exile or Revan come to an end you know?
Since most people seem to want that, chances are good.

Are you calling me a Sith?
No, I don't believe in extremes. Crazy or misdirected at most... ;)
Seriously, I really don't want to see the PC or "allied" NPCs start the war, it would just be evil.

Phaedra36
02-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Of course they will. I just think it makes little sense to let the main plot take place in the unknown regions with party and all because it would raise the question why Revan and the Exile had to go there alone.

Did Kreia just say loved one or did she also say allies? I cannot remember. I am also sure she used, "Revan will need all the Jedi and Sith" in a plural sense as wel.


I promise to try harder next time ... or at least I would if I knew what it was I almost got you with...

Hm, I just meant I couldn't come up with a comeback or bring up another point to argue with. I had to sit there for a few minutes trying to think of another point lol.


No, I don't believe in extremes. Crazy or misdirected at most... ;)
Seriously, I really don't want to see the PC or "allied" NPCs start the war, it would just be evil.

Haha very funny :-p. Anyway, no I really don't want it to happen like that.. I might have said it wrong xD. What I -know- is going to happen is as soon as whoever your main character is, the plan is going to start rolling into action almost immediately like any other game. While Revan was there for some odd 4 years, he/she did not discover as much as we would in those 24 hrs of gameplay. But the npc's and the pc aren't going to start the war, they are going to lay low for about...10 min before some like True Sith busts in the door and is like, "Imma kill you all!" or you get shot down or something hehe.

RobQel-Droma
02-14-2006, 12:07 AM
One could say that the unknown regions are such a badass place, that being a powerful Jedi is just the lower limit to keep alive there. In TSL Kreia said about Tulak Hord he was one of the last (in the known regions?) great lightsaberfighters and by comparison "we" would be like children playing with toys. It could be done without the amnesia/cut off the force stuff but it would look a bit clumsy at any rate.

This will be true of your party members, I assume then? All uber-powerful Jedi Prestiege classes up around 25 levels at the very start? If your PC (you are implying Revan, I guess from your post) is going to have to be like that, so will your party members - otherwise they will get slaughtered, won't they?

Buzz1978
02-14-2006, 11:07 AM
Did Kreia just say loved one or did she also say allies? I cannot remember. I am also sure she used, "Revan will need all the Jedi and Sith" in a plural sense as wel.

It' all about loved ones ("for it would bring doom to them both") and people one truely cares about. And she said warriors, Jedi or Sith who can be sent after him/her and who knew the way.
But actually Revan didn't take anyone with him/her not even the Ebon Hawk: "And he/she left the Ebon Hawk behind because he/she knew he/she would not need it." If it would make sense to send every normal Jedi/Sith after Revan, he/she would have taken them with him/her from the start

Why are you so keen on having the main plot taking place on "the shadowed planets of the sith empire" anyway?

Buzz1978
02-14-2006, 12:01 PM
This will be true of your party members, I assume then? All uber-powerful Jedi Prestiege classes up around 25 levels at the very start?
No, I meant it as an excuse to let Revan or Exile start at Level1 again - the party members would have to be from the unknown regions then so the same rule doesn't apply to them.. I'm the first to admit that the idea isn't flawless but I think there isn't any flawless way to reset Revan/Exile ... to be true they all suck. I'm just trying to think of a way to reintroduce Revan/Exile at all, even if I don't like the idea. What most hardliners here don't seem to recognize is that the story of K3 must "work" on its own whether it adresses the stories of K1 and K2 or not.
That is why I find it *most* unlikely to play as Revan or the Exile again.

If K3 really becomes the sequel most people here want it to be, I would like it best if they made a few glitches on purpose: The "True Sith" aren't the threat Kreia talks about, they're a nearly extinct species and the typical "True Sith" is neither LS nor DS but the threat originates in the remains of their empire and only this actual place where the danger comes from is so damn dangerous that Revan could only go there alone. But the PC is a new one and doesn't meet Revan or the Exile, he just follows their steps...

Phaedra36
02-14-2006, 12:50 PM
It' all about loved ones ("for it would bring doom to them both") and people one truely cares about. And she said warriors, Jedi or Sith who can be sent after him/her and who knew the way.
But actually Revan didn't take anyone with him/her not even the Ebon Hawk: "And he/she left the Ebon Hawk behind because he/she knew he/she would not need it." If it would make sense to send every normal Jedi/Sith after Revan, he/she would have taken them with him/her from the start

Why are you so keen on having the main plot taking place on "the shadowed planets of the sith empire" anyway?

Because that is where Kreia says the true war is at, is in these shadowed places and the True Sith are way better than the regular Sith, and yada yada. Kreia says that it is part of the exile's destiny to journey out into the Outer Rim..So I would just assume naturally that the war would take place there. No one would strike, but they would prepare for the attack and then strike back.
Now Buzz, it is become Revan was Revan and he would have took allies with him/her but probably felt like he/she was so badass that he could take it all. Perhaps Revan failed in his/her efforts over the years and Kreia can sense it or something. Yes to every Jedi/Sith that know the way, so people that have been on Korriban and Malachor probably do know the way. I imagine it won't be a huge amount anyway, for the Ebon Hawk can only hold so many people so..I am rambling now, but do you see my point?

JediMaster12
02-14-2006, 03:10 PM
Yes but I think you may be forgetting that she also said that the true war is not fought on a battlefield but is waged from within and that it carries a terrible price. My way of thinking suggests that the True Sith is to be a dark essence of the ancient Sith Lords and that it may consume individuals who succumb to the dark power. This seems to fit in conjunction and I just remembered something else that Revan knew the power of such places and the power in making them. That may be what Revan was going to fight, those crucible places that could bring a wave of darkness over the Republic which will die anyway.

Buzz1978
02-15-2006, 06:23 AM
Because that is where Kreia says the true war is at, is in these shadowed places
It's all a matter of perspective (as the old ObiWan stated all truths are). It doesn't necessarily mean that it's where the battle takes places just that the war will be decided there. We can't even be sure what Kreia meant (or that she even told the truth - since manipulating is like a habit for her). Not much (if any) of her statements are really straight.

and the True Sith are way better than the regular Sith, and yada yada.
They might just be different... in fact we don't know anything about the nature of this threat.

Kreia says that it is part of the exile's destiny to journey out into the Outer Rim..
The unknown regions are beyond the Outer Rim. In case you didn't knew you visited the Outer Rim frequently while playing K1 and K2. To be precise only Kashyyk, Nar Shaddaa (both Mid Rim) Manaan and Onderon (both Inner Rim) are *not* Outer Rim Worlds...

Now Buzz, it is become Revan was Revan and he would have took allies with him/her but probably felt like he/she was so badass that he could take it all.
I doubt it. Either LS or DS, Revan should be smart enough to know what he/she is cabable of. I still think it's something nobody expect someone so powerful or so special as the Exile can help with. And Kreia stated Revan "did something terrible, he/she wanted to put an end to."

Yes to every Jedi/Sith that know the way, so people that have been on Korriban and Malachor probably do know the way.
I lay more weight on the "who can be sent" thing because it holds some mysterious type of explanation why Revan went alone and why in all that time only the Exile is capable to follow.

I imagine it won't be a huge amount anyway, for the Ebon Hawk can only hold so many people so..
But all these people have to be somehow special above the former passengers?

I am rambling now, but do you see my point?
I'm not sure... But I'm pretty sure we're all intertwining the things we want with the things that would work properly (even if we try not to)...

Joetheeskimo
02-15-2006, 04:31 PM
Everybody has pretty much been repeating themselves - new PC, new/old ship, etc. I also think it's time for a new ship, in fact, that would give the game a compeletely new feel, and I think it would be fun for the developers to have the chance to come up with something new. Maybe at some point in the game you could get the chance to see or board the Ebon Hawk for a short while, but otherwise a new ship would improve the game immensely.

igyman
02-15-2006, 04:48 PM
Yes, it would. Especially if you (which I hope you don't) get a new main character.

Phaedra36
02-15-2006, 09:18 PM
Maybe it should get blown up this time lol while the random Sith or Czerka are shooting it down.

RobQel-Droma
02-16-2006, 12:17 AM
Everybody has pretty much been repeating themselves - new PC, new/old ship, etc. I also think it's time for a new ship, in fact, that would give the game a compeletely new feel, and I think it would be fun for the developers to have the chance to come up with something new.

You know, you are exactly right in a way. How about we get rid of the same old Sith Lords to give the game "a new feel"? Or get rid of party members and be able to recruit anyone, or no one. Wouldn't that be something new? Save the new ship for another game. This is KOTOR, the Ebon Hawk is the Falcon of it. If you want to get rid of it, hope they make a new KOTOR-like game and create a new personal transport. If they were going to change it, they would have done so in TSL, not at the series closer, especially after two games where they had it. Don't get rid of a ship because quote "it would give the game a new feel." It doesn't need one, not in that area.[/RANT]

Yeah, you might be able to see that I am extremely averse to getting rid of or blowing up the Hawk in the series closer of the KOTOR series. ;)

EDIT: Oh yeah, and a few of you are talking about how Kreia tells you that the "real war" is in the "shadows of the True Sith empire." As far as I know, she never says this. She makes a single reference to "True Sith" during the end of the game, where she is talking about the true enemy. And she never uses the word species, or original Sith, or describes what she is talking about as one. It is never really made a big deal of, and she never clarifies that she is really talking about this "Original Sith species" nonsense. True Sith could mean anything, depending on what she was talking about.

Yeah, I'm also adverse to this "True Sith" idea to, and the idea that it is all hyped up in both games and specifically said that we will go face them in K3. :D

Now, after all this, I have another thing I'd like to add.

1) No more feeling like you are cursed to be shot down by everybody wherever you go, whether it be HK-51 units, Onderon fighters, Czerka AD towers...

Phaedra36
02-16-2006, 12:24 AM
I agree 100% with you Rob.

RobQel-Droma
02-16-2006, 12:25 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence. :D I also edited my post, though, you might not agree with what I say later... ;)

igyman
02-16-2006, 01:57 PM
All I'm saying is that no matter how much I like the Hawk, I was extremely disappointed to see it inexplicably return in TSL. I mean, how the heck did Kreia get it? If it gets to be your ship in K3, then there better be a good explanation for its return (except if you get to play as Revan again, then the explanation would be obvious).

Another idea is that no matter who you play as in K3, your main quest is to track down the Ebon Hawk, because that ship probably has the coordinates to the True Sith homeworld. Then when you find it, you use it to get to those True Sith.

Buzz1978
02-16-2006, 04:02 PM
Yeah, you might be able to see that I am extremely averse to getting rid of or blowing up the Hawk in the series closer of the KOTOR series. ;)
How would you react then if K3 doesn't become the series closer you expect it to be?

EDIT: Oh yeah, and a few of you are talking about how Kreia tells you that the "real war" is in the "shadows of the True Sith empire." As far as I know, she never says this.
Actually she says: "You must go where Revan did, into the Unknown Regions, where the Sith, the true Sith, wait in the dark for the great war that comes."
and later: "The Sith is a belief. And it's empire, the true Sith empire, rules elsewhere."
But prior to both statements she says: "No, Revan met no Sith Empire, yet he learned their teachings."

And she never uses the word species, or original Sith, or describes what she is talking about as one. It is never really made a big deal of, and she never clarifies that she is really talking about this "Original Sith species" nonsense. True Sith could mean anything, depending on what she was talking about.
I agree, except the n-word-thing. There are lots of possible interpretations and IMO the one about the true Sith somehow being related to the Sith species ist just one of them.

Yeah, I'm also adverse to this "True Sith" idea to, and the idea that it is all hyped up in both games and specifically said that we will go face them in K3.

Me too. (BTW: where is it hyped up in K1?) The "end of the force" thing in TSL was already too much for me and if the devs really want to, they can even "outperform" that. But since there a so much possible interpretations of the TSL "premonitions" I stay optimistic...

If it gets to be your ship in K3, then there better be a good explanation for its return (except if you get to play as Revan again, then the explanation would be obvious).
No, it would be obvious if you played as the Exile again. If you play as Revan and get the Hawk there'd better be a good explanation how he/she gets it. But since we get a new PC anyway, there'd better be a good explanation at any rate.

XI33
04-08-2006, 10:05 AM
1. The Ebon hawk, i would like to see a new deseign of ship and not the same old same old.

2. Starting out as a non-jedi,the idea of a non-jedi finding out along the way hes force sencitive is a way over used plot line and realy doesnt need to be done again.

3.More of the same planets.

4. Holes in the plot.

KyleOfHarpenden
04-08-2006, 01:46 PM
1.The Hawk
Its good but to be fair the Hawk has had its day really unless they change it dramaticley then its kinda dull.
2.Recycled characters.
Ok like 4 would be ok but not all like i would like to see what happened to most of the characters like Carth and Bastila but i didnt really care for hanhar or mission or Visas so some but no all.
3.Dantoine
i mean for gods sake its pritty much exactly the same as before
4.Korriban
no fun without the tombs(TSL).
5.Moaning old women
Kreia was so aragent she was saying that the dark side isnt good then she got mad for u being nice sheesh.
6.Not all force users
not all the characters to use the force like in TSL got really dull and they where always quite weak ikn the force because u had to get alot of influence to talk about it
7.influence
Bad Idea!go back to Kotor1 gain exp so u could go around killing instead of like waiting for ages.
8.Kotor1 robes
i like the TSL robes because they looked better but maybe if they murged the two together so you can have it with or without the like robes and have a hood
9.Wounds in the force
make it better than that all TSL was about is that.
10.Force Ghosts
holocrons are ok but not ghosts.

Adept Havelock
04-08-2006, 03:41 PM
What I don't want:

Mile after Mile of bloody Korriban.
(With apologies to Terry Pratchett)

The Source
04-08-2006, 03:43 PM
A virgin birth. Hehehe...

I can't believe they sold people that idea in Episode I.
I hope they don't try that storyline again.

Darth InSidious
04-08-2006, 05:18 PM
Female companions who talk in loud whispers all the zarking time.

shinyjedi
04-11-2006, 12:56 AM
First of all, concerning the ongoing question of how the PC aquires the Ebon Hawk, and how will the PC of K3 aquire the Ebon Hawk, please look here (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?p=2066210#post2066210) for the long version of my take on the answer .

Now, on to what I don't want to see:
1. a new ship.

2. an entirely new crew. Leave us HK and T3, at least.

3. the same, exact game mechanics. "you have to face overwhelming odds in a battle upon which the fate of the galaxy hinges. You have TEN companions to aid you, which TWO will you choose? :nut:

4.scenerios where the only real solution is the old standby "kill 'em all and let the force sort 'em out!"

5. Dumb murder mysteries which consist largely of waiting for transition screens. (area A: ask question. Answer leads to area B, where you pick up an item that leads you back to area A. Repeat over and over until you want to pitch the game disc out the window of a fast moving tie fighter)

6. incomplete or incompletable side quests.

7. tiny areas

8. closed game universe. NWN has shown you can create a decent single player game and still leave openings for unlimited play. Let's see that in KOTOR!

9. More pointless swoop racing.

10. Amnesia victims

11. Idiot jedi masters who first teach you fighting techniques and answer all your questions, then later forget everything and attack you as though YOU were the problem. Obviously the force isn't proof against alzheimers.

12. Cripplingly limited response paths for LS/DS gain. There are more paths to the light or dark than the intillectual hippie or psychotic.

13. The requirement for petty theft, pilferage, and looting the dead to finance my mission.
13a. Rank and file NPCs completely ignoring said pilferage without comment.

14. static party choices.

15. early cap on NPC conversation. (like Atton, f'rinstance. Yak yak yak until he's a jedi and then nothing! Give me longer dialog paths!

16. The same areas of the same planets all over again. I refuse to believe that there isn't anything on Korriban beyond that stupid valley!

17. Fractured plots, contradictory dialog, single path solutions, or the requirement to take an NPC who completely opposes your goals and provides no other benefit <COUGH!>G0-T0<COUGH!>

18. the need to politely put up with the crap some sanctimoneous goober in a ratty robe thinks he's good enough to shovel at you simply in order to avoid dark side points. Yes, Vrook, I'm talking to YOU! You weasel! :evil5:

just for starters......

kookaburra
04-11-2006, 01:42 AM
I don't want to see a crap ending and a muddled up storyline that doesn't make sense.

†Saint_Killa†
04-11-2006, 03:28 AM
I don't want droid alien voices. Alien voices suck and gets repetitive.

bobogarcia
04-22-2006, 11:10 AM
PLEASE, I dont want T3 or HK. Maybe you run into a destroyed T3. Not another person whiner like Carth. And for please, not a cranky mentor like Kreia

Jeremia Skywalk
04-22-2006, 11:37 AM
NO F*CKING REVAN/EXILE PC!!!! Come on it does not make a bit of sense. You have to start off weak. That is one of main rules of rpg's. Also, that noone knows what Revan/Exile looked like, so it would make no sense to make him look completely different. Not talking bout that everyone knows, that devs are not THAT stupid to make Revan/Exile pc. If another people will say he wants a Revan/Exile pc and will not have a logic explanation, how is that possible i will consider this person to be a complete noob. plus. IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN even if you want it. second would be too good graphics, i mean, darn i cannot afford new comp.

Niwram
04-22-2006, 12:23 PM
In the cut content, most of your party members in TSL died, except (if you're male) Visas or Handmaiden (depending on who you had most influence with) and Gotos remote.

Visas or Handmaiden stays at Malachor V to train the "others" who will come. The Exile goes to the unknown regions with the remote. Nobody else comes with him.
Bastila is also somewhere searching for Revan.
That means no more party members from Kotor 2, and no more of the planets from 1&2.
When kotor 3 starts, you should be in the unknown regions.

But this could be quiet hard to make for whoever's making the game.

First of all, before you start the game, you should be able to choose if you wanna be the Exile or Revan. They will meet each other not too far into the game. You should also be able to choose what kind of voice revan and the Exile should have (and what kind of accent). The PC (Revan or The Exile) doesn't have to have a voice, but the NPC( Revan or The Exile) must have a voice, since he will be talking to your PC.
You must also choose what kind of ending you had in the first 2 games, and what kind of sex the two PCs were.

I don't want K3 in any other way.

Henz
04-23-2006, 03:19 PM
First of all, before you start the game, you should be able to choose if you wanna be the Exile or Revan. They will meet each other not too far into the game. You should also be able to choose what kind of voice revan and the Exile should have (and what kind of accent). The PC (Revan or The Exile) doesn't have to have a voice, but the NPC( Revan or The Exile) must have a voice, since he will be talking to your PC.
You must also choose what kind of ending you had in the first 2 games, and what kind of sex the two PCs were.

I don't want K3 in any other way.

No offense. But God do I hope that game doesn't happen. Waaay too restricting and alienating for the player. What if the player hasn't played the first 2? New PC all the way and I don't even mind if revan, exile, or even the true sith aren't mentioned at all honestly.

shinyjedi
04-23-2006, 04:34 PM
In the cut content, most of your party members in TSL died, except (if you're male) Visas or Handmaiden (depending on who you had most influence with) and Gotos remote.

Visas or Handmaiden stays at Malachor V to train the "others" who will come. The Exile goes to the unknown regions with the remote. Nobody else comes with him.
Bastila is also somewhere searching for Revan.
That means no more party members from Kotor 2, and no more of the planets from 1&2.

So you're demanding that Kotor 3 be based upon Kotor 2 content that didn't even make it into the game? :eyepop

That's like demanding every American citizen who doesn't own a rifle and ammunition be arrested because the original plan for the Bill of Rights was going to mimic a Magna Carta style militia.

tbl1
04-24-2006, 07:23 AM
-NO NEW GAME ENGINE most importantly.
-Majority of the game should not be played in the unknown regions, just the end-game. Keep it in the SW galaxy.
-No extremely long 1st planets before jedihood/lightsabers. i.e. Taris.
-No more characters wanting death.

Prime
04-24-2006, 02:03 PM
-NO NEW GAME ENGINE most importantly.I would say we can guarantee that it will be using a new engine. Overall I'd say the requirements will be significantly higher.

firehead2591
04-24-2006, 07:36 PM
I would say we can guarantee that it will be using a new engine. Overall I'd say the requirements will be significantly higher.
lets hope to god there will be a new engine