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Tokakeke
02-25-2006, 01:21 AM
1. Bots run all the way around the Red Crystal room in korriban even if shields are down before jumping across and grabbing the crystal
2. Damages seem higher, affecting gameplay
3. Give bots higher forceteam priority than humans - I was forceteamed because the teams were 3 to 1 - cant it forceteam a bot instead!??!

razorace
02-25-2006, 07:35 AM
1. It's the nature of the way the map scripting works and how the TABBots use it. The shield protecting the red crystal doesn't directly connect to the scripting that completes the objective. As such, when the bots scan the map to figure out what they need to do to win, they don't see the shield as being something they need to deactivate before they can take the crystal. I suppose I could hack it so that they would do so in this special case, but I haven't heard too many complaints about the way the currently work.

2. In Basic or Enhanced? In Enhanced, the saber damage is higher to accommidate the lethal nature of the sabers.

3. The system already does. I'm not sure why this bug appears to occur in some situations. I've been hammering bugs out of the team balancer for sometime now.

Tokakeke
02-25-2006, 12:55 PM
You have to realize, though, that increasing saber damage affects siege gameplay for objectives like the Control Room on Hoth, doors on Korriban, etc.

razorace
02-25-2006, 04:42 PM
Yes, I know. I kind of like it that way. Sure, it means that the jedi can hack thru objectives quickly, but it's not like both sides don't have jedi players. We might have to balance it by making the blasters do more damage as well.

Kurgan
02-26-2006, 06:10 PM
Actually no it doesn't. Saber damage (to enemies) is a seperate cvar to damage to "walls" (which I assume includes damage to consoles and other inanimate destroyable objects). So upping g_saberdamagescale to 999, would not make busting down the Korriban doors any easier...

Enhanced doesn't really work for Siege anyway, because it takes to long to kill people with a saber (so you just use guns/bombs).

Lathain Valtiel
02-26-2006, 06:11 PM
Why not set damage to walls at 0.1 to fi this then?

Kurgan
02-26-2006, 06:13 PM
Did Razor combine the damage cvars somehow? Last time I checked the wall and enemy damage cvars were different and did not affect one another...

razorace
02-26-2006, 06:30 PM
The wall damage cvar doesn't do anything anymore. I can fix that if it's a problem.
Also, I am working on balancing the explosives/guns vs the jedi players. It will be figured out. :)

Kurgan
02-26-2006, 07:21 PM
You mean in Basic too?? That's really, really bad!

Yes, definately bring it back, it's a serious problem! We don't need universal saber damage... we need to be able to differentiate between damage to walls/objectives and damage to players with sabers. So recourse to the old commands seems intuitive enough to bring them back.

Making the objectives easier to smash through really opens a huge can of worms anyway, so I won't touch that one with a ten foot poll, but if propose to somehow balance that (imagine Korriban) be my guest. But I think the default values that Raven had in mind are really what I'd stick to on a Basic server...

Lathain Valtiel
02-26-2006, 07:36 PM
Oh, by the way Razor...

FIX THE HOTH INVISIBILITY GLITCH!

Kurgan
02-26-2006, 08:29 PM
Did some testing... I see that saberdamagescale also affects saberthrow.


Can't we just have a seperate cvar for each value? If I wanted lethal sabers, I'd inadvertantly make them able to chew through walls rapid fire. That's clearly a problem.

One for saberdamagescale, one for saberwalldamagescale, one for saber throw. After all, realistically a lightsaber would react to different materials differently, rather than being a universal magical cutting instrument.

Though I would have it such that you could use JK2 style damage or JA style random damage like normal. Making it a scale could just lead to abuse (for throw).

Being able to eat through walls faster as Jedi just doesn't seem very balanced. Upping gun damage won't do anything to counteract that either. But at least let the users set these different values, rather than combine them all into one and make it goofy.

Also nice to see somebody told Lath about the invisibility 'sploit on Hoth. Wow, who'd a thunk it?

And dang it if that "walking in place while firing animation bug" is still present on the AT-ST. Doh!

-Edit: Ya beat me too it Lath! Also, I updated my Trillian, everybody happy now? ;)

razorace
02-26-2006, 10:03 PM
Why have a seperate damage cvar for saber throw?

Talk to Phunk about the walking while firing animation bug. That's something that he broke with this expanded vehicles code.

Kurgan
02-27-2006, 12:26 AM
Why have a seperate cvar for saber throw? Because it's a force power. It wasn't tied to the saberdamagescale previously, I don't see why it has to be added here. If somebody wants saber STRIKES to be really powerful, but not saber throw the power, then they can't do that, because it's all tied together now. Since it's such an easy move to spam (remember Pull+Throw?), upping the damage of that move is just asking for abuse. That would seem to be the easiest solution. If people don't like the damage it does now, give the option of changing it to the fixed value of Jedi Outcast, like Xmod2 did.

If people want sabers that can cut through walls fast AND do ultra damage to players AND do extra damage on throws, they could still do that if they were seperate cvars. Making them all one cvar just cuts down on options, and forces people to play a certain way that may not be desirable. But making saber throw a fixed value, rather than one you can just edit to anything, might cut down on abuse.

Is Phunk (?RenegadeofPhunk?) even still around? If I have his contact info I'll contact him about it.

razorace
02-27-2006, 03:25 AM
I can understand the issues with the wall damage and will correct it when I have time. However, I don't think I'm going to add a seperate saber throw cvar for three reasons.
1. People don't read the manuals anyway so they won't know about it.
2. It goes against the "sabers are lethal" concept that I'm working with on Enhanced.
3. Cvar overload is bad.

Kurgan
02-27-2006, 11:42 AM
I can understand the issues with the wall damage and will correct it when I have time. However, I don't think I'm going to add a seperate saber throw cvar for three reasons.
1. People don't read the manuals anyway so they won't know about it.
2. It goes against the "sabers are lethal" concept that I'm working with on Enhanced.
3. Cvar overload is bad.

Okay, cool, but...

1) That's really not a reason to change it, just because some people don't read the manual!
2) I'm talking about Basic, which is seperate from enhanced and doesn't mess with the basic gameplay. Making saber throw more powerful I think counts as messing with gameplay, especially by encouraging pull+throw.
3) Yes, but does one more cvar make a difference? If so, just get rid of the ability to change the Saberthrow damage, leave it basejka like it was before.

razorace
02-27-2006, 04:32 PM
Uh, this thread was about issues involving Enhanced and siege mode as far as I know. I have no intention of changin the saber/saber throw damages in Basic.

Secondly, you can't use pull/throw in Enhanced like you do in Basic. If a player uses another force power while in a throw, he loses his concentration on the saber and the saber will fall to the ground.

Kurgan
02-28-2006, 01:14 PM
Uh, this thread was about issues involving Enhanced and siege mode as far as I know. I have no intention of changin the saber/saber throw damages in Basic.

Secondly, you can't use pull/throw in Enhanced like you do in Basic. If a player uses another force power while in a throw, he loses his concentration on the saber and the saber will fall to the ground.

Okay, Razor, well unless I'm confused, I was able to change the Saberthrow damage in Basic the last time I was on the server, because it was tied to saberdamagescale. Is that the part you have no intention of changing? Because that's the only part I have any problem with, Enhanced is cool because it's meant to change the gameplay and saber system, so no argument from me with what you do in Enhanced.

Did you intend for Basic to make saber throw damage and wall saber damage affected by g_saberdamagescale? And if so, did you realize how that affects balance in basic (especially siege) gameplay? That might help clear up my confusion. Thanks!

razorace
02-28-2006, 01:20 PM
I've never messed with those cvars in Basic. That's gotta be basejka behavior.

And, no, I can see your ICQ messages, but you apprenently can't see mine. PM me your MSN address or something so we can continue to communicate. :)

Kurgan
02-28-2006, 06:22 PM
Well if that's the case, then no problem. I'll do some testing on my own tonight to see what is up on my end in regards JA.

As far as ICQ I'm mystified. Is this a problem that can only be solved by installing the new ICQ (rather than Trillian)? I don't have MSN, but you can try contacting me on my other accounts... (Edit: DONE).

razorace
02-28-2006, 06:27 PM
It's apprenently something to do with the ICQ protocall being updated and trillian screwing up when they tried to update to it. It happens. *shrug*

Anyway, I've added you on AIM and YAHOO, you should be able to hear me thru those now. (IE, take down your addresses!)

Maxstate
05-04-2006, 06:19 AM
I cant even start siege, crashes right away.

razorace
05-04-2006, 12:08 PM
Delete/reduce the number/size of the .cfg files you have.