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Sith lord 826
03-27-2006, 09:34 PM
I wonder who is anakin's father anyone know?

Point Man
03-27-2006, 10:48 PM
Click #94 (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=149190&page=3)

MachineCult
03-28-2006, 05:28 AM
OK the mods need to get down here right now this guy has posted five threads.

Anakin has no father!!!

Darth Macca
03-28-2006, 09:36 AM
Anakin didn't have a father, he was created out of midi-chlorins by either Plagueis or Sidious.

Personally I believe it was Plagueis, Sidious says he has the power to create life.

Prime
03-28-2006, 11:40 AM
Anakin didn't have a father, he was created out of midi-chlorins by either Plagueis or Sidious.Or neither.

Darth Macca
03-28-2006, 12:20 PM
Or neither.

Anakin was born of midi-Chlorian and human. In Episode 3, Palpatine talks about Darth Plagueis who was so powerful and wise he could control the midi-chlorians to create life...I'll leave the rest for your imagination...

Darth_Terros
03-28-2006, 12:45 PM
Anakin didn't have a father, he was created out of midi-chlorins by either Plagueis or Sidious.

Personally I believe it was Plagueis, Sidious says he has the power to create life.

Its never actually been stated anywhere thats what happened only implied.

Point Man
03-28-2006, 09:17 PM
Its never actually been stated anywhere thats what happened only implied.
Refer to post #2.

TK-8252
03-28-2006, 09:58 PM
Anakin was born of midi-Chlorian and human. In Episode 3, Palpatine talks about Darth Plagueis who was so powerful and wise he could control the midi-chlorians to create life...I'll leave the rest for your imagination...

Sidious was BS'ing you. Ha, and you fell for him.

Samnmax221
03-28-2006, 10:06 PM
OK the mods need to get down here right now this guy has posted five threads.

Come swiftly off of thy cloud and smite thy blundering foe, and bring some fondue.
(Ride of the Valkyries plays loudly in the background)

MachineCult
03-29-2006, 08:09 AM
Refer to post #2.
Yeah what about it? Terros is still correct.

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 02:08 PM
Sidious was BS'ing you. Ha, and you fell for him.

What facts do you have to prove this? Yes he "MAY" have been lying, he "MAY" not ... my opinion is that he was telling the truth. Hence the reason why I believe Anakin was created by midi-chlorians by Plagueis.

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 04:01 PM
What facts do you have to prove this? Yes he "MAY" have been lying, he "MAY" not ... my opinion is that he was telling the truth. Hence the reason why I believe Anakin was created by midi-chlorians by Plagueis.

Here's a better question: when is Sidious not lying?

And your opinion is wrong. The fact is, Anakin was not created by anyone. We've already discussed this in another thread; Anakin is the Chosen One as George Lucas has said, meaning that the Force itself created him, not an individual.

This is all explained in Episode I.

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 04:21 PM
Here's a better question: when is Sidious not lying?

And your opinion is wrong. The fact is, Anakin was not created by anyone. We've already discussed this in another thread; Anakin is the Chosen One as George Lucas has said, meaning that the Force itself created him, not an individual.

This is all explained in Episode I.

No, in Episode I Shmni tells Qui-Gon that there is no father. That doesn't really tell us anything, so no it doesn't tell us everything. As for the Chosen One; really, don't talk this bull**** to me ... Yeah, I think Anakin was created by Darth Plageus. The legend revolving around him seems to support it. Also, Anakin could easily have been conceieved by the Dark Side and he would still be the chosen one. The Dark Side of the force is still the force.

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 04:33 PM
No, in Episode I Shmni tells Qui-Gon that there is no father.

That's not what I was referring to. I think it's clear you have forgotten a very significant part of the story discussed in Episode I.

As for the Chosen One; really, don't talk this bull**** to me ...

But he was the Chosen One... I don't get how it could be BS?? George Lucas said it himself... and the movies proved it.

Yeah, I think Anakin was created by Darth Plageus.

Well, think what you want, but you are wrong. I'm sorry to say so and I'm not trying to be offensive. It is not my opinion that you're wrong; it is a fact that Anakin was not created by anyone.

The legend revolving around him seems to support it.

No, that's not true at all. The movies prove that yes, Anakin was the Chosen One just as the prophecy said. George Lucas has said it.

Also, Anakin could easily have been conceieved by the Dark Side and he would still be the chosen one. The Dark Side of the force is still the force.

...That's not what the prophecy says. You need to watch Episode I again before continuing to argue.


I really don't understand why people are so quick to accept whatever Sidious says, and then twist it to fit something that was implied by the devil, the biggest liar in the galaxy, Sidious.

No wonder Anakin played right into Sidious's hands... you all have too!

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 05:07 PM
I have watched Episode I and my opinion stays the same. You keep on coming up with these measily facts about Lucas which don't change my perspective of the story. George Lucas is a total mystery at times, you never know what he'll come out with next! Your opinion is no better than mine, you can't accept my opinion because it is different to yours. I left a post saying, "I'll leave it for your imagination" and you reply with, "Sidious was BS'ing you. Ha, and you fell for him.", which isn't the politist to say the least and makes me feel your looking for a public debate. I stand by my opinion but yet you quote me on everything I say and then you turn around and tell me your not meaning to be offensive. Do you even understand yourself? If you believe you are right, why continue to argue? I have a different view than you...does that give you the right to quote my every post? I don't think it does. A forum is a place of opinion, that's the problem at times. People just cannot accept other people's perspectives. I have no problem that you believe Anakin was craved by the force itself - you may well be right like I said in an earlier post. Just accept what I have to say, and move along...we are never going to agree with each other because we both have different views. I just fail to understand the human mind at times...I really do.

MachineCult
03-29-2006, 05:12 PM
No, in Episode I Shmni tells Qui-Gon that there is no father. That doesn't really tell us anything, so no it doesn't tell us everything. As for the Chosen One; really, don't talk this bull**** to me ... Yeah, I think Anakin was created by Darth Plageus. The legend revolving around him seems to support it. Also, Anakin could easily have been conceieved by the Dark Side and he would still be the chosen one. The Dark Side of the force is still the force.
I completely agree with TK on this, you have really got it wrong.
Why would he have been concieved by the dark side? He was the chosen one and he was created to destroy the Sith thus eradicating the dark side, what you're saying goes against everything said about Anakin and the prophecy.

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 05:14 PM
I completely agree with TK on this, you have really got it wrong.
Why would he have been concieved by the dark side? He was the chosen one and he was created to destroy the Sith thus eradicating the dark side, what you're saying goes against everything said about Anakin and the prophecy.

"A prophecy that was misread, could've been..." - Master Yoda

MachineCult
03-29-2006, 05:17 PM
Don't just post a quote explain why you think it is relevant and how it proves your point.

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 05:22 PM
Don't just post a quote explain why you think it is relevant and how it proves your point.

Well you are distinctively saying that the prophecy proves Anakin was created by the force. Yoda says in ROTS that the prophecy could've been misread and that Anakin was destined to dark side. If he is destined to the dark side then he was obviously created by some sort of dark taint. Plageuis can accordingly influence midi-chlorians to create life - which leaves me with the impression that it isn't zion impossible for Darth Plageuis to create him. The force did create him - but which side? The dark or the light...Personally, I believe the dark side of the force created him. Hence, Darth Plagueis created Anakin Skywalker. My View.

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 05:23 PM
"A prophecy that was misread, could've been..." - Master Yoda

Did he say that it WAS misread, or that it COULD have been misread?

He said it COULD have, which it wasn't. If you saw the ending of RotJ, which I'm hoping you did, you'll see that the prophecy was not misread. It was proven right.

Yoda says in ROTS that the prophecy could've been misread and that Anakin was destined to dark side.

He never said he was destined to the dark side. Never.

If he is destined to the dark side then he was obviously created by some sort of dark taint.

I see no logic in this sentence. He was influenced by the dark side, not CREATED by it. He destroys the Sith, after all.

Plageuis can accordingly influence midi-chlorians to create life

You need proof in order to make such a claim.

The force did create him - but which side? The dark or the light...

Neither side created him. The will of the living Force did.

Personally, I believe the dark side of the force created him. Hence, Darth Plagueis created Anakin Skywalker. My View.

Well, I hate to say it, but you're wrong.

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 05:28 PM
Did he say that it WAS misread, or that it COULD have been misread?

He said it COULD have, which it wasn't. If you saw the ending of RotJ, which I'm hoping you did, you'll see that the prophecy was not misread. It was proven right.

The Jedi thought Anakin was going to bring balance to force by defeating the Sith, which was total nonsense. He infact was destined to the dark side - even Sidious knew that. That's why he was so sure of turning Anakin, because he was indeed created by a Dark Lord of the Sith. Palpatine tells Anakin the story of Plageuis to leave the audience with a new view on things. Lucas knows it will cause controversy, that's why he includes it. Everything in Star Wars is done for a reason...

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 05:30 PM
The Jedi thought Anakin was going to bring balance to force by defeating the Sith, which was total nonsense.

Except for the fact that he brought balance to the Force by defeating the Sith.

Alkonium
03-29-2006, 05:35 PM
Except for the fact that he brought balance to the Force by defeating the Sith.
But, he defeated the Sith when there were no Jedi either, which means that he did bring balance, whether you believe that balance means the light and dark sides are in equilibrium, or that the Light Side reigns supreme. The latter doesn't really sound like balance, but more bantha fodder that the arrogant Old Jedi Order came up with.

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 05:38 PM
Except for the fact that he brought balance to the Force by defeating the Sith.

Yes I know that, but the Jedi still misread the prophecy. They believed he was going to defeat the Sith whilst on the light side, which was total nonsense. But why would the force itself create a boy with so much anger and hatred? What went wrong whilst he was being created? If the force was trying to create a boy with no anger, no hatred or jelousy then that really cocked up. Plageuis must have influenced the midi-chlorians to create anger, hatred and jelousy. Yes the prophecy was meant to be, but at a cost.

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 05:43 PM
They believed he was going to defeat the Sith whilst on the light side, which was total nonsense.

You seem to be the one who has misread the prophecy. Because no where does the prophecy say that the Chosen One will be a Jedi and never did any Jedi say that that's what it says. All it says is that the Force will create him, and that he will destroy the Sith. This is what the Jedi believed. And it happened.

Plageuis must have influenced the midi-chlorians to create anger, hatred and jelousy. Yes the prophecy was meant to be, but at a cost.

No, those are things created by human nature.

Rogue Nine
03-29-2006, 05:54 PM
Until George Lucas says otherwise, the issue of who Anakin's father was remains unknown, so you're free to believe anything you want, be it that Darth Plagueis created him through the Dark Side or that the living Force created him or that Shmi Skywalker just ate a really bad Tatooine burrito and conceived him. For all you know, Lucas could pull something out of his ass and say that all those theories are incorrect. Please do not try to force your opinion on others here because no one knows what the definitive answer is. This goes for all of you. Keep it civil. I'd hate to have to put some of you on time-outs.

Darth Macca
03-29-2006, 05:57 PM
You seem to be the one who has misread the prophecy. Because no where does the prophecy say that the Chosen One will be a Jedi and never did any Jedi say that that's what it says. All it says is that the Force will create him, and that he will destroy the Sith.

No, those are things created by human nature.

I've misread the prophecy? If the Jedi didn't think Anakin was going to defeat the Sith whilst been on the light side, why would they let him to be trained? Hatred, jelousy & anger are all characteristics of a Sith...not a Jedi. Can't you see he was destined for the dark side? The force created him, Plageuis minipulated the force. He was the Dark lord of the Sith - his power was amazing. Anakin's fate had been written before he was even born because of Plageuis. He knew Anakin would bring balance to the force but at the same time cause huge amound of pain and anger. This is just what Plageuis wanted. It all makes sense, Plageuis minipulates midi-chlorians, Anakin was suspiciously created by midi-chlorians. In my view, it all makes sense!

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 06:15 PM
If the Jedi didn't think Anakin was going to defeat the Sith whilst been on the light side, why would they let him to be trained?

They DIDN'T want him trained! Remember Yoda and Mace Windu turning down the request for him to be trained? The only reason he was trained was because it was Qui-Gon's dying wish.

Hatred, jelousy & anger are all characteristics of a Sith...not a Jedi.

This is irrelivant. The Chosen One was not destined to be a Jedi or a Sith, but his destiny was to destroy the Sith. That's IT.

Can't you see he was destined for the dark side?

He chose to join Sidious if you saw Episode III. It was not his destiny. His only destiny was to destroy the Sith.

Plageuis minipulated the force.

Again, you need some proof. You can't just make up something like that. You need some actual evidence, not just assumptions.

He was the Dark lord of the Sith - his power was amazing.

Again irrelivant.

Anakin's fate had been written before he was even born because of Plageuis.

Anakin's fate was written before he was even born, and his fate was to destroy the Sith. Not because of Plagueis; I'd find it hard to believe that Plagueis created someone for the sole purpose of destroying his own.

He knew Anakin would bring balance to the force but at the same time cause huge amound of pain and anger. This is just what Plageuis wanted.

No... Plagueis wanted the Sith to dominate. WHY would Plagueis create something for the sole purpose of DESTROYING the Sith??

Plageuis minipulates midi-chlorians

Again, no proof at all.

lordzack
03-29-2006, 07:07 PM
George Lucas created Anakin Skywalker. As for how he was created in universe, we don't know. George Lucas hasn't said anything about yet. And perhaps he hasn't even decided. It doesn't really matter because it's all fiction.

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 07:15 PM
George Lucas created Anakin Skywalker. As for how he was created in universe, we don't know. George Lucas hasn't said anything about yet. And perhaps he hasn't even decided. It doesn't really matter because it's all fiction.

It seems to me he's made up his mind, because he's come out and said that Anakin was indeed the Chosen One.

boinga1
03-29-2006, 08:27 PM
I feel the need to point out that, if Sidious/Plageus created Anakin, it makes no sense for him to have been born a million light-years away on a dusty little planet, completely unknown to either of them. Surely, if they had created such a life-form, they could at least make it be born on Coruscant, or make its existence known to them. But there seems to be no evidence that anyone was aware of Anakin before Qui-gon, and there is no logical reason why the Sith would have created him on such a distant planet.

Point Man
03-29-2006, 10:35 PM
I feel the need to point out that, if Sidious/Plageus created Anakin, it makes no sense for him to have been born a million light-years away on a dusty little planet, completely unknown to either of them. Surely, if they had created such a life-form, they could at least make it be born on Coruscant, or make its existence known to them. But there seems to be no evidence that anyone was aware of Anakin before Qui-gon, and there is no logical reason why the Sith would have created him on such a distant planet.
I have wondered about this myself. I can come up with two reasons. First, since Tatooine is a backwater planet, it would be outside the notice of the Jedi Order. If a child was born of the Force on Coruscant, the Masters of the Jedi Council would probably notice the "disturbance in the Force." Second, Star Wars strongly implies Anakin came from Tatooine, so Lucas had to place him there.

As to the ongoing debate about whether Plagueis/Sidious manipulated the midi-chlorians to create Anakin, I have to ask those who believe otherwise this question: if a book published by Del Rey and run through Lucas Licensing says Plagueis/Sidious did it, why do you choose not to believe it?

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 10:38 PM
if a book published by Del Rey and run through Lucas Licensing says Plagueis/Sidious did it, why do you choose not to believe it?

Movies > EU

Point Man
03-29-2006, 10:52 PM
Anakin is the Chosen One as George Lucas has said, meaning that the Force itself created him, not an individual.
And why can't it be that the prophecy about the coming of the Chosen One came to fruition because a Sith Lord manipulated the midi-chlorians to create a child born of the Force? The irony in that is a great demonstration of how the dark side leads to its own destruction.

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 10:55 PM
And why can't it be that the prophecy about the coming of the Chosen One came to fruition because a Sith Lord manipulated the midi-chlorians to create a child born of the Force? The irony in that is a great demonstration of how the dark side leads to its own destruction.

Because that's not what the prophecy says?

Point Man
03-29-2006, 10:57 PM
Because that's not what the prophecy says?
Then enlighten me because I must not remember the prophecy correctly. I sure don't remember anything in it that would preclude that course of events.

TK-8252
03-29-2006, 10:59 PM
Then enlighten me because I must not remember the prophecy correctly. I sure don't remember anything in it that would preclude that course of events.

Read my posts. I've explained what the prophecy says numerous times in this thread.

Point Man
03-29-2006, 11:09 PM
Read my posts. I've explained what the prophecy says numerous times in this thread.
Sorry, but all of your posts simply push your opinion. Just because you say it is fact does not make it so. If you want to tell somebody their opinion is wrong, you need to have hard evidence. All you have presented so far is your opinion, which to me carries less weight than the published account I have quoted.

TK-8252
03-30-2006, 07:53 AM
Sorry, but all of your posts simply push your opinion. Just because you say it is fact does not make it so. If you want to tell somebody their opinion is wrong, you need to have hard evidence. All you have presented so far is your opinion, which to me carries less weight than the published account I have quoted.

Well, not my opinion, but the opinion of George Lucas, yes...

Darth Macca
03-30-2006, 10:01 AM
Well, not my opinion, but the opinion of George Lucas, yes...

TK, you have questioned throughout if I have any proof of my opinion, I don't have proof and you will be very lucky to find someone who has. I honestly do think Plageuis created Anakin - but you struggle to accept my opinion. So I will ask you ... unless you have solid proof that Anakin was not created by Plageuis I will think otherwise.

TK-8252
03-30-2006, 04:29 PM
I honestly do think Plageuis created Anakin - but you struggle to accept my opinion.

Because your opinion conflicts with everything that was shown in the movies.

So I will ask you ... unless you have solid proof that Anakin was not created by Plageuis I will think otherwise.

The fact that Anakin was the Chosen One just as the prophecy said is as solid proof as anyone would need.

The opinion of the Sith creating Anakin has no basis, no evidence. It's something that was suggested by the most evil liar, the devil of the galaxy. And yet you want to believe it. Sigh.

Darth Macca
03-30-2006, 04:42 PM
Because your opinion conflicts with everything that was shown in the movies.



The fact that Anakin was the Chosen One just as the prophecy said is as solid proof as anyone would need.

The opinion of the Sith creating Anakin has no basis, no evidence. It's something that was suggested by the most evil liar, the devil of the galaxy. And yet you want to believe it. Sigh.

You keep on dwelling on the prophecy and the Chosen One, but that doesn't mean to say he couldn't have been created by Plageuis. You tell me Anakin was created by the force - there are two sides to the force; Light & Dark. Never has anyone (not even Lucas) come out and said that the Dark side of the force didn't create Anakin.

I know my opinion of the Sith creating Anakin has no basis or no evidence (as I have already stated) ... but in my eyes it makes a lot of sense. It's a point of view that has been speculated for a long time, I don't see any reason why it cannot be true. Show me some facts that show that Plageuis didn't create Anakin, then I'll start to believe that Palpatine was lying.

TK-8252
03-30-2006, 05:21 PM
You keep on dwelling on the prophecy and the Chosen One, but that doesn't mean to say he couldn't have been created by Plageuis.

The prophecy doesn't say that someone will come and create the Chosen One using the Force... it says that the Force itself will create the Chosen One.

You tell me Anakin was created by the force - there are two sides to the force; Light & Dark. Never has anyone (not even Lucas) come out and said that the Dark side of the force didn't create Anakin.

This seems to be irrelivant. The Force itself created Anakin, not the light or dark side. The Force isn't some spiritual being like a god that has an angel sitting on one shoulder and a devil sitting on the other. It's a single entity that has its own will. The will of the individual, however, determines if they're going to follow the path of the light side, or fall to the dark side.

Show me some facts that show that Plageuis didn't create Anakin,

Hey, the burden of proof is on you. It's just like how the burden of proof would be on me if I said that the sun was made of cheese. I can't just say hey, I think the sun is made of cheese and it's my opinion and it makes sense, it is yellow after all. The burden of proof would be on me to offer some evidence that the sun is made of cheese. And it being yellow isn't enough.

then I'll start to believe that Palpatine was lying.

So would you say that Sidious is a reliable source? That he's not a liar? I can't recall a single time he actually told the truth. He's never told the truth on ANYTHING, so why would you think he's telling the truth in this one case? He was making **** up so that Anakin would go with him. If you think he actually cared about revealing the truth, then you need to go watch the movies again.

Remember how he told Anakin that he had the power to cheat death? That was in the same scene where he told Anakin that Plagueis could create life using the Force.

Oh yeah, then a scene later he told Anakin that he didn't have the power and that they'd have to work together to get it. WHY do you want to think that he's telling the truth? Had it not been for Sidious BS'ing Anakin, we wouldn't even be discussing this.

Point Man
03-30-2006, 10:21 PM
Well, not my opinion, but the opinion of George Lucas, yes...
So where is the quote from George Lucas? If you say you are presenting the opinion of somebody, you need to present a quote to back it up. Otherwise, just admit that what you are presenting is your opinion.

When you get to college, you will learn about a literary device called inference. Simply put, inference is the presentation of just enough facts to allow the reader to come to the truth on his own. This is what Lucas is using here. He doesn't want to insult our intelligence by spoon-feeding us every little detail. I, for one, prefer when an author allows me to exercise my thinking. Plus, we wouldn't get to engage in this friendly exchange of ideas. :lsduel:

TK-8252
03-30-2006, 10:54 PM
So where is the quote from George Lucas? If you say you are presenting the opinion of somebody, you need to present a quote to back it up. Otherwise, just admit that what you are presenting is your opinion.

He has said so in numerous interviews. If you have the RotS DVD (as any good Star Wars fan should), you can watch one of the interviews where he talks about how Anakin is the Chosen One and all.

Rogue Nine
03-30-2006, 10:59 PM
La. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader#Possible_interpretations_of_the_Jedi_p rophecy)

Stop bickering, plz. I hate it when people get all pretentious and huffy. Makes me wanna put them on time-outs.

Point Man
03-30-2006, 11:10 PM
He has said so in numerous interviews. If you have the RotS DVD (as any good Star Wars fan should), you can watch one of the interviews where he talks about how Anakin is the Chosen One and all.
First, don't try to tell me how to be a good Star Wars fan. I could not begin to count the number of times I saw the OT movies before you were even born.

Second, I agree with you that Anakin is the Chosen one. However, that does not mean he was not the result of Plagueis/Sidious manipulating the midi-chlorians to create a child born of the Force. Yes, the Force created Anakin: the Force as the midi-chlorians in Shmi Skywalker being manipulated by Plagueis/ Sidious.

TK-8252
03-30-2006, 11:14 PM
First, don't try to tell me how to be a good Star Wars fan. I could not begin to count the number of times I saw the OT movies before you were even born.

...That was a joke, man.

However, that does not mean he was not the result of Plagueis/Sidious manipulating the midi-chlorians to create a child born of the Force. Yes, the Force created Anakin: the Force as the midi-chlorians in Shmi Skywalker being manipulated by Plagueis/ Sidious.

The prophecy implies that the Chosen One comes when the Force wills it, not when an individual does. Again, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that anyone manipulated midichlorians to create Anakin. Where are you getting the information that Plagueis or Sidious created Anakin?

Samnmax221
03-30-2006, 11:19 PM
The prophecy implies that the Chosen One comes when the Force wills it, not when an individual does. Again, there is not a shred of evidence to suggest that anyone manipulated midichlorians to create Anakin. Where are you getting the information that Plagueis or Sidious created Anakin?
He has a "reliable" informant in his butt. This informant is so reliable you could say he's anal retentive in his work

Point Man
03-30-2006, 11:25 PM
Where are you getting the information that Plagueis or Sidious created Anakin?

Go to post #94 in this thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=149190&page=3&pp=40)

TK-8252
03-30-2006, 11:34 PM
Go to post #94 in this thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=149190&page=3&pp=40)

Again, as I've said, the movies as well as George Lucas triumph the EU when there is conflict.

Point Man
03-31-2006, 10:14 PM
Again, as I've said, the movies as well as George Lucas triumph the EU when there is conflict.
Well, as I've said, show me where the movies and/or George Lucas say anything to trump the idea of Plagueis/Sidious causing the midi-chlorians to create Anakin. Give me a direct quote, and I will believe it. Until you can do that, everything you say is just your opinion, and, frankly, I will believe the published source over the opinion of a high school kid.

TK-8252
03-31-2006, 10:47 PM
Well, as I've said, show me where the movies and/or George Lucas say anything to trump the idea of Plagueis/Sidious causing the midi-chlorians to create Anakin.

Anakin is the Chosen One... meaning the Force created him... having anyone else create him goes against everything in the movies. You are basing your opinion on a lie made up by the biggest liar in the galaxy.

I would like this question answered specifically: why do you want to believe Sidious? Why do you want to believe what the devil of the galaxy is telling? You know, Anakin wanted to believe what Sidious was telling. And you see where that got him right??

Give me a direct quote, and I will believe it.

Click the link Niner posted.

and, frankly, I will believe the published source over the opinion of a high school kid.

How do you know I'm in high school? You checked out my profile? You know, I checked out your profile too, and I didn't see your birthday displayed.

I must point out that taking cheap-shots doesn't help this discussion. I've never used a personal attack such as that against anyone in a debate, so for the sake of keeping this thread civil, I'd discourage using such a tactic to discredit me...

Point Man
03-31-2006, 11:44 PM
Anakin is the Chosen One... meaning the Force created him...
I do not dispute that Anakin was the Chosen One. I do not dispute that the Force created him. I simply believe the Force was aided by Plagueis and/or Sidious. If you want to believe the Force was responsible for Anakin's creation, why is it so hard to believe the Force was acting through the Sith? In the book of Exodus, God worked through Pharoah's evil deeds to accomplish His plan of bringing the Hebrews out of Egypt. In doing what he thought would preserve his empire, Pharoah actually caused his own destruction.

I would like this question answered specifically: why do you want to believe Sidious? Why do you want to believe what the devil of the galaxy is telling? You know, Anakin wanted to believe what Sidious was telling. And you see where that got him right??
I do not think Sidious was lying in this instance. Even the most evil person will tell the truth when it suits his purposes. In this case the truth (as I see it) suited his purposes better than a lie would.

The biggest reason I choose to believe Anakin was created by the Force as guided by the Sith is that I appreciate the irony of the situation. They thought Anakin would become the strongest Sith ever, only to have him bring about their destruction. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you have to admit it would bring a sweet irony to the Prophecy.

Click the link Niner posted.
Nothing of note there.

How do you know I'm in high school? You checked out my profile? You know, I checked out your profile too, and I didn't see your birthday displayed.
And you won't. I deliberately avoid putting any personally identifiable information on the web because I am in the Army and because I have children to protect. I would recommend you not put your complete birthday in your profile, either.

I must point out that taking cheap-shots doesn't help this discussion. I've never used a personal attack such as that against anyone in a debate, so for the sake of keeping this thread civil, I'd discourage using such a tactic to discredit me...
Point taken. I apologize.

TK-8252
04-01-2006, 12:01 AM
I simply believe the Force was aided by Plagueis and/or Sidious.

So if Plagueis never decided to learn about how to influence midichlorians, the prophecy never would have come true? The Chosen One never would have come and the Force would never be brought to balance?

I do not think Sidious was lying in this instance. Even the most evil person will tell the truth when it suits his purposes. In this case the truth (as I see it) suited his purposes better than a lie would.

But he was lying about the ability to save life, which he said he had in the very same discussion he had when he said Plagueis could influence midichlorians. Sidious was making whatever up that he could to get Anakin on his side. Why is it that the ONLY thing that he EVER says that's not a lie is the single sentence he spoke that can be used to justify the reasoning for Anakin to be a demon spawn?

I, for one, wouldn't trust the devil on anything he says.

The biggest reason I choose to believe Anakin was created by the Force as guided by the Sith is that I appreciate the irony of the situation. They thought Anakin would become the strongest Sith ever, only to have him bring about their destruction. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you have to admit it would bring a sweet irony to the Prophecy.

I admit that sounds good and I would have rather had that actually been the prophecy, that the Sith would bring about their own destruction. But that's simply not what the prophecy of the Chosen One says.

Nothing of note there.

It's just the quotes of George Lucas, but since you don't dispute Anakin's status as the Chosen One (as many of the people who argue for Plagueis or Sidious to be Anakin's father do), then never mind.

And you won't. I deliberately avoid putting any personally identifiable information on the web because I am in the Army and because I have children to protect. I would recommend you not put your complete birthday in your profile, either.

Well, you're putting out your IP address by visiting this site, and that's the most personally-identifiable information you could put besides your name and address. :p

Point Man
04-01-2006, 01:35 AM
So if Plagueis never decided to learn about how to influence midichlorians, the prophecy never would have come true? The Chosen One never would have come and the Force would never be brought to balance?
Though Plagueis made the choice of his own free will, the Force knew in advance what his choice would be. That is how all prophecy is made. It's just like the prophecies regarding the birth of Jesus. If Ceasar Augustus had not called for the census, Jesus would not have been born in Bethlehem. God, being omniscient, knew this would happen, and so he lead Micah to make his prophecy about Jesus being born there.
But he was lying about the ability to save life, which he said he had in the very same discussion he had when he said Plagueis could influence midichlorians. Sidious was making whatever up that he could to get Anakin on his side. Why is it that the ONLY thing that he EVER says that's not a lie is the single sentence he spoke that can be used to justify the reasoning for Anakin to be a demon spawn? I, for one, wouldn't trust the devil on anything he says.
I am not so sure he was lying about being able to prevent death. He may have been lying when he recanted. There are two possibilities:

1) Sidious did not know how to manipulate midi-chlorians at all. He just lied to Anakin to rope him in. Once he had converted him, he told the truth.

2) Sidious did know how to manipulate midi-chlorians. He used this truth to rope Anakin in. Once he had him converted, he lied.

He had to be lying at some point and telling the truth at some point. I think it is much more in keeping with his character to use the truth to get Anakin into his fold, then pull the rug out from under him. If he was unable to manipulate the midi-chlorians, what reason would he have to reveal the truth after Anakin's coversion? However, there is plenty of reason to lie to him after his conversion. Sidious would not want Anakin pursuing his quest of keeping Padme alive. He wanted Anakin's undivided allegiance. As long as Padme was alive, he would never have that.



I admit that sounds good and I would have rather had that actually been the prophecy, that the Sith would bring about their own destruction. But that's simply not what the prophecy of the Chosen One says.
The prophecy does not say one way or the other. I think we should both admit that you and I will always have different views on this. You choose to interpret the prophecy literally; I choose to make my own inferences. Neither of us can prove our view or disprove the other.

TK-8252
04-01-2006, 11:50 AM
He had to be lying at some point and telling the truth at some point.

Well, he didn't have to be telling the truth at any time. It all could have been a lie as I'm saying.


The prophecy does not say one way or the other. I think we should both admit that you and I will always have different views on this. You choose to interpret the prophecy literally; I choose to make my own inferences. Neither of us can prove our view or disprove the other.

That's something we can agree on.

I must say you have articulated the argument for the Sith creation of Anakin better than anyone I've read.

Point Man
04-01-2006, 04:08 PM
Well, he didn't have to be telling the truth at any time. It all could have been a lie as I'm saying.
He said one thing, then said the opposite. One of those times he had to be telling the truth. Unless you want to say he only hinted he might be able to help Anakin save Padme, which I could accept, as well.
I must say you have articulated the argument for the Sith creation of Anakin better than anyone I've read.
Thank you. Hey, I have to put all those years in school to work somehow.

Prime
04-03-2006, 02:50 PM
Of those that believe Plageuis created Anakin, can you guys answer the following for me:
If Plageuis did create Anakin through whatever means, why he would do so with a slave woman in a remote world outside the boundries of the Republic?
Why didn't he create him in a situation he had much more control over, like in his lair or something?
Why wasn't such a valuable mother and son protected from interference (i.e. A Jedi Master walking right up to him and taking him under his protection and delivering him to the Jedi Order)?
Why would he allow him to be a pod racer? Sure he is talented, but why put him into such a dangerous situation where he could be easily killed?
Why would a Sith Lord create a being that he must have known would be the Chosen One and destined to destroy his kind? Isn't kind of indirect suicide?
It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Darth_Terros
04-03-2006, 03:03 PM
Of those that believe Plageuis created Anakin, can you guys answer the following for me:
If Plageuis did create Anakin through whatever means, why he would do so with a slave woman in a remote world outside the boundries of the Republic?
Why didn't he create him in a situation he had much more control over, like in his lair or something?
Why wasn't such a valuable mother and son protected from interference (i.e. A Jedi Master walking right up to him and taking him under his protection and delivering him to the Jedi Order)?
Why would he allow him to be a pod racer? Sure he is talented, but why put him into such a dangerous situation where he could be easily killed?
Why would a Sith Lord create a being that he must have known would be the Chosen One and destined to destroy his kind? Isn't kind of indirect suicide?
It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Plagieus and Sidious most likely did some sort of Sith magik hoping it would bring the Chosen One to life but they'd had to wait for him to actually show himself?

Im sure this sort of thing has been used it lots of fantasy plots?

TK-8252
04-03-2006, 04:14 PM
Plagieus and Sidious most likely did some sort of Sith magik hoping it would bring the Chosen One to life but they'd had to wait for him to actually show himself show himself?

I'm sorry but I can't understand what you said.

From what I can understand, you're saying that they intended to create the Chosen One. Why would they intend to create someone who is destined to destroy the Sith?

Darth_Terros
04-03-2006, 04:23 PM
I'm sorry but I can't understand what you said.

From what I can understand, you're saying that they intended to create the Chosen One. Why would they intend to create someone who is destined to destroy the Sith?

The Sith have their own version of the chosen one.

The Sith'ari

Anyway i just used to chosen one as a term for someone created through the force and is strong in its use.

TK-8252
04-03-2006, 04:30 PM
The Sith have their own version of the chosen one.

The Sith'ari

Anyway i just used to chosen one as a term for someone created through the force and is strong in its use.

Yes, I know that. But the prophecy of the Sith'ari just says that he would come. Not that the Sith would create him. But that he would just come.

Darth_Terros
04-03-2006, 04:35 PM
Yes, I know that. But the prophecy of the Sith'ari just says that he would come. Not that the Sith would create him. But that he would just come.

So the prohecy of the jedi chosen one never said he would be created by sith?

obviously plagiues and sidious wanted to force the prophecies into happning sooner by trying to use sith magik to bring it about.

Seriously its not that hard to grasp what i ment its really really basic stuff.

TK-8252
04-03-2006, 04:40 PM
So the prohecy of the jedi chosen one never said he would be created by sith?

It doesn't say that. It says what the Sith'ari prophecy says... that he would just come. It's basically like the story of Jesus... but replace God with the Force and Jesus with Anakin. I mean, there weren't some people down on Earth using magic to create the messiah.

obviously plagiues and sidious wanted to force the prophecies into happning sooner by trying to use sith magik to bring it about.

...Well, it's possible that's what they intended, but you can't force a prophecy. It just happens... otherwise it's not a prophecy.

Darth_Terros
04-03-2006, 04:52 PM
Your really not getting this are you? lol

Like i said it really is incredibly simple

Basically MAYBE Sidious and his master had heard about the Prophecy of the Sith'ari now with the knowledge of the darkside they had, so they decided to see if they could make this prophecy come true by thier own unnatural knowledge,

So after they did what ever they did somewhere in the galaxy they managed to create this being born of the Darkside of force the only they dont really know where so had to wait for him to show himself.

Sadly the Jedi found this kid first and took him to be their own version of the Chosen one.

Its only very loosely like the story of jesus as in the story of jesus there wasnt two powers waiting for their chosen one to show up and of course there wasnt people on earth using magic to bring him alive because MAGIC ISNT REAL.

TK-8252
04-03-2006, 05:16 PM
Your really not getting this are you? lol

I get what you're saying (after deciphering your broken english), but the point of a prophecy is that it comes true due to the divine, not the actions of people. If something happens due to what people do (Sidious/Plagueis creating Anakin), it's not a prophecy anymore... it's only a prediction.

Darth_Terros
04-03-2006, 05:33 PM
Broken english?

Oh forget it i have nothing else to say on the matter of Anakin being the chosen one
http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/1344/brickwall148lp.jpg

TK-8252
04-03-2006, 05:59 PM
Broken english?

I apologize if english isn't your first language, but it's difficult to read english that lacks grammar and punctuation. No offense intended, it's just hard for me to understand.

MachineCult
04-03-2006, 06:27 PM
English is his first language and his writing is perfectly understandable.

TK-8252
04-03-2006, 06:37 PM
English is his first language and his writing is perfectly understandable.

Well, this part confused me the most...

"So after they did what ever they did somewhere in the galaxy they managed to create this being born of the Darkside of force the only they dont really know where so had to wait for him to show himself."

Darth_Terros
04-04-2006, 02:13 AM
"So after they did what ever they did somewhere in the galaxy they managed to create this being born of the Darkside of the force the only problem they dont really know where so had to wait for him to show himself."

ok my fault i missed out a couple of words lol

it was late and i was tired still didnt take much brain power to fill in the gaps.

TK-8252
04-04-2006, 08:01 AM
it was late and i was tired still didnt take much brain power to fill in the gaps.

Gotcha. :) I've been there!

Prime
04-04-2006, 10:57 AM
Plagieus and Sidious most likely did some sort of Sith magik hoping it would bring the Chosen One to life but they'd had to wait for him to actually show himself?Why wouldn't they? Would they just forget about the whole thing and move onto something else?

So the prohecy of the jedi chosen one never said he would be created by sith?The prophecy says the Chosen One states that he/she will be created by the Force and concieved by the midiclorians.

obviously plagiues and sidious wanted to force the prophecies into happning sooner by trying to use sith magik to bring it about.But why?

Darth_Terros
04-04-2006, 11:30 AM
Why wouldn't they? Would they just forget about the whole thing and move onto something else?

Didnt say they forgot about it did i? just said they didnt know where this child would turn up look im not saying this is what happened im just using what normally happens in fantasy stories and StarWars is a fantasy story.

The prophecy says the Chosen One states that he/she will be created by the Force and concieved by the midiclorians.

I know what the prophecy is.

But why?

Did you watch episode 3?

With the chosen one on their side it ment they'd be able to finally destroy the Jedi and rule the galaxy as seen in ROTS.

Prime
04-04-2006, 01:16 PM
Didnt say they forgot about it did i? just said they didnt know where this child would turn up look im not saying this is what happened im just using what normally happens in fantasy stories and StarWars is a fantasy story.Is that all you are basis this theory on?

Did you watch episode 3?Yeah. Did you?

With the chosen one on their side it ment they'd be able to finally destroy the Jedi and rule the galaxy as seen in ROTS.I'll say it again. Why would the Sith want to bring about a prophecy that fortells their destruction?

Kurgan
04-04-2006, 02:24 PM
This Sithari thing sounds like some crap some EU fanboy came up with after TPM to try to cast Palpatine as some kind of antichrist figure to even further confuse the theological overtones of the whole anakin/chosen one thing. Am I right?

Let somebody put forth where this supposed "sith prophecy" is really stated, and if you say wiki, I'm going to clonk some noggins together!

Darth_Terros
04-04-2006, 03:00 PM
I'll say it again. Why would the Sith want to bring about a prophecy that fortells their destruction?

Who knows ask lucas he came up with the crap that anakin came from the midiclorians and might've been created by plaigues and sidious i was just trying to make sense of the stupidity of it by putting a theory out there.

Anyway its not the jedi's version of the chosen they where trying to create but the sith version.

And the Sith'ari thing came from the knights of the old republic game.

Yuthura Ban - That is our ideal at any rate. It is said in Sith legend that the Sith'ari, the perfect being will one day lead us but perhaps that is just a legend.

TK-8252
04-04-2006, 04:12 PM
Let somebody put forth where this supposed "sith prophecy" is really stated, and if you say wiki, I'm going to clonk some noggins together!

Click :) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith#The_Sith.27ari)

Darth_Terros
04-04-2006, 04:23 PM
Click :) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith#The_Sith.27ari)

Seems like your noggins heading for a clonking TK lol

Prime
04-04-2006, 08:02 PM
But it was indeed the fanboys who said that prophecy meant Anakin.

Kurgan
04-05-2006, 11:08 AM
And the Sith'ari thing came from the knights of the old republic game.


KOTOR1, okay, thank you. ;)

Click :) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith#The_Sith.27ari)

*Clonks TK-8252* :smash:

Point Man
04-05-2006, 11:02 PM
Of those that believe Plageuis created Anakin, can you guys answer the following for me:
If Plageuis did create Anakin through whatever means, why he would do so with a slave woman in a remote world outside the boundries of the Republic?
Why didn't he create him in a situation he had much more control over, like in his lair or something?
Why wasn't such a valuable mother and son protected from interference (i.e. A Jedi Master walking right up to him and taking him under his protection and delivering him to the Jedi Order)?
Why would he allow him to be a pod racer? Sure he is talented, but why put him into such a dangerous situation where he could be easily killed?
Why would a Sith Lord create a being that he must have known would be the Chosen One and destined to destroy his kind? Isn't kind of indirect suicide?
It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Those are very good questions, and I must confess that I cannot answer any of them with solid evidence, but, rather, with speculation and my opinion (which I hope is based on sound reasoning and logic).

I cannot answer why a slave woman was chosen, except that maybe P/S found her to be strong in the Force. No evidence, just a possibility.

I think they would have chosen Tatooine precisely because it is remote. If they had chosen a "civilized" planet, the Jedi would have sensed the vergence in the Force almost immediately.

As to the questions pertaining to the lack of control over Anakin, perhaps Sidious was counting on the Force to bring Anakin to him. He might have been wanting Anakin to be found by the Jedi, so he could destroy them from within.

I don't believe Sidious thought of Anakin as the Chosen One. Obviously, he would not knowingly create the means of his destruction. He just thought he was making a geat Sith Lord. Numerous biblical prophecies were helped along by enemies of the Jews and early Christians acting in what they thought was their own self-interest.

As I said, there is no evidence to answer any of these questions, but that is the way many things are in the Star Wars universe. That's what makes Star Wars so intriguing and so frustrating at the same time. You can speculate about countless things, engage in interesting discussions, and never come up with a straight answer. But at least you can have fun talking about it. :)