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Siri Tachi
04-15-2006, 10:32 AM
Have you noticed that these days, there are a lot of people that go into Academy multiplayer and just Kill everything that moves!
:atat: I just want to go and have some fun and do a little dueling. And then you get these guys that just run around killing everyone, interupting other poples duels and being really nasty! You ever come across them? And how do we stop them? :sithm:

acdcfanbill
04-15-2006, 11:50 AM
I just want to go and have some fun and do a little dueling.

try something called a Duel server, they are spefically setup so that only two ppl can play at a time, its a Duel.

Perhaps other people just want to have a little fun going around and killing everything that moves (its called FFA, or free for all).

Kurgan
04-15-2006, 01:51 PM
Have you noticed that these days, there are a lot of people that go into Academy multiplayer and just Kill everything that moves!
:atat: I just want to go and have some fun and do a little dueling. And then you get these guys that just run around killing everyone, interupting other poples duels and being really nasty! You ever come across them? And how do we stop them? :sithm:

But that's how you're supposed to play the game! Oh well. To acdcfanbill you listen... ;)

dtriniman
04-16-2006, 07:00 AM
You can't stop them really. These ppl have come from a UT and Q3 mentality. Although some ppl like Kurgan believe this mentality should be brought across to the JK games, I think by now the honor system has been in place to prevent lamers. And for those that won't listent to reason there is JA+. It comes with duel isolation so when you duel you only see the person you're dueling and it also comes with chat protection so if your chatbox is up you can't get hurt. It's as good as you'll get.

[USA]-bLaSt
04-16-2006, 01:43 PM
The "honor system" doesn't prevent ANYTHING... and "lamer" is only defined by each 12-year old, basement dwelling, loser JA+ admin with a god complex. But they should know about lame better than I.

Here's the real deal...

The "honor system" as you call it was originally created on duel servers to insure the one on one fight be a true test of one individual skill against that of another. Both players signal they are ready to begin (the bow - wow, that's why we do that) and both players join the fight evenly matched. Somewhere along the line it became perverted into a some kind of f**king religion or something which ultimately has NO POINT WHATSOEVER unless you are role-playing or some horse poop.

PS - The REAL definition of lamer according to the honor system - "Someone who is better than me."

Jamps
04-16-2006, 03:22 PM
Wow, somebody complaining that people are playing the game the way it was meant to be played, thats a new one....

But from your point of view, let me just say not to worry about it. There are so many JA+ servers that I doubt the 'honor system' will ever collapse. Just find another server.

But personally I LOVE a real FFA.

Tinny
04-16-2006, 07:28 PM
You have to find the right server. You might just wanna try frag fest servers though, a good match can be really fun :)

dtriniman
04-16-2006, 08:13 PM
I'm all for ffa. I play regular FPS games myself. But the fact that some people play their game different is no reason to knock it. When I'm playing Quake or UT I'm playing Quake or UT. This is JO/JA and it's different whether I like it or not. I just adapt. And yes there are idiots who think lamers are all sorts of things but a LOT of people have the common sense to know what it is.

Kurgan
04-16-2006, 09:32 PM
I guess the real problem with the honor system is that these folks want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be able to walk through the middle of a FFA battle zone and just stride up to somebody and challenge them to a lightsaber fight.

I suppose it's like those cool (but logically ridiculous) scenes in nearly all sword fighting movies where the good guy and the villian will seek each other out on the battle field, and only rarely do they show other people interfere in the fight. It's like they are seeking "a personal challenge" and really don't care about the actual outcome of the war or staying alive. ;)

While that's cool and all, it really bites when for the sake of this fantasy re-enactment people have to force everyone else in the game to stop playing and wait for them. The saber challenge feature was put in specifically by Raven I think to both simulate this "dueling fantasy" as well as to give people a quick alternate time out from the regular flow of battle that is present in all FPS games, and once in awhile it's a kind of macho thing too, like "oh yeah? Well I bet you can't duel me!" 'cause people can alway try to rack up points not by fighting the "best" player but just to kill the "scrubs" and see who can do that faster.

The Duel gametype was created for the tournament ladder style thing focused soley on dueling. Where the waters became muddied is that the sore losermanship of some admins (who hate to lose and want to punish those who beat them) combined with the "role play" idea (not so much actual role playing but a desire to mostly chat with people and use emotes to "communicate" as if one were sitting around in IRC shooting the breeze to waste time), which for some reason has people that get deeply offended if you attack them (even though they aren't playing competatively so shouldn't care about their score, plus getting killed has no affect on their ability to chat with people, even if they forego spectator mode). These folks felt that being attacked when they didn't want to be meant these guys who attacked them, whom they like to call "lamers" should be punished. Finally, you had the people who just were so uptight about their battles all being chosen carefully and only according to careful rules to prevent what they consider "unfair" advantages (though usually this is just stuff they have yet to master or counter themselves) like certain moves or force powers, etc. This anal retentativeness about setting up the perfect challenge means they get extremely upset if their controls are not setup perfectly, if they say something and the person or themselves are not "ready" or they get a tiny burst of lag etc. The trouble is, these types often use these things seemingly as excuses. It's like "oh you really didn't beat me, it was lag" or "you had 5% more health than me so it wasn't fair" or "I wasn't quite ready" or "I forgot to set my binding before we fought."

Combine all of these factors together and you have a community within a community that was attracted to mods like JA+ that catered to their specific desires. The trouble is a lot of this type of thing was aimed at individual egos rather than a competative or even team based environment. The basic assumption was that if you were going to play this game you were only doing to because you wanted to occasionally duel certain people, and nobody else had a right to take a shot at you, period. So in a sense if you ever lost, it was only because you chose to. The sore losermanship thing entered in often as people ganging up on one person they felt was too good and trying to get them kicked, either through voting or appealing to the admin. When the sore loser was the admin, that was even worse. Rather than merely kicking the person the admins would become abusive and try to make themselves untouchable. Either they could not be killed, or if they were killable, they would "Make an example" of the person who tried to kill them, by taking away their ability to move, or attack, or doing damage to their character without any way for them to avoid it or retaliate. Thus "fear" of retaliation prevented anyone from touching them.

That's mainly why so many of us got fed up with the abuse and setup our own servers. We refused to tolerate that kind of stuff that we felt destroyed the original purpose of the game. There is no good reason why Jedi Knight games specifically should not be played like any other FPS. The fact that so many decided that this style of play should be the ONLY one tolerated, really drove a lot of people away. On the upside it made the "playing it straight" servers a lot more popular and concentrated.

So it's each to his own, but now I hope you see (if you didn't already) why so many of us seemed to whine about "honor" and insist that it not be followed. The game just gets boring if everyone plays it that way, and essentially takes the majority of the modes and options that Raven spent so much time working on and throws them in the garbage, and then calls you a lamer if you try to use them!

The terms of "noob" (or n00b, newb, newbie) and "lamer" are of course so worn out that they've become meaningless random insults. In our circle we sometimes use the terms (along with the ever popular "hax!" which I picked up from Republic Commando) but in obvious tongue-in-cheek fashion for laughs.

Anyway, I've made many long winded rants about this issue, and many consider it beaten to death. We don't have so many flame wars about it anymore thankfully, and this is probably the most polite post about it I've made in a long time. ;)

Happy Easter!

:bigemt
04-19-2006, 05:02 PM
But that's how you're supposed to play the game! Oh well. To acdcfanbill you listen... ;)

http://www.adstgp.com/forum/images/smiles/offtopic.gif

dtriniman
04-20-2006, 10:58 PM
You've made good points Kurgan as you usually do. The problem we all have is if enough do the same thing over and over again it becomes the norm. So we have people who just whine for #$%^ like strolling into the middle of a ffa and getting hit then crying lame.

Laming is attacking someone whose saber is down and/or chatbox is up. That's the rule as I know it. Different servers have it differently. Some JA+ servers don;t consider the laming as laming if they attack you with your chatbox up because of the chat protection. Others consider people who weren't ready as getting lamed.

But the thing is people should have some common sense. I cannot be in a server where a major ffa is going on and try to walk in the middle of it, whether it's to challenge someone or to PM them, and not expect to get hit.People should use good judgement.

:bigemt
04-21-2006, 01:06 AM
You've made good points Kurgan as you usually do. The problem we all have is if enough do the same thing over and over again it becomes the norm. So we have people who just whine for #$%^ like strolling into the middle of a ffa and getting hit then crying lame.

Laming is attacking someone whose saber is down and/or chatbox is up. That's the rule as I know it. Different servers have it differently. Some JA+ servers don;t consider the laming as laming if they attack you with your chatbox up because of the chat protection. Others consider people who weren't ready as getting lamed.

But the thing is people should have some common sense. I cannot be in a server where a major ffa is going on and try to walk in the middle of it, whether it's to challenge someone or to PM them, and not expect to get hit.People should use good judgement.

COUNTER LAMMIN IS LAMMING TOO!!!! IF U GET LAMED AND U LAME BACK U JUST AS BAD AS THE LAMMER! U SOULD TELL ADMIN IF U GET LAMMED SO THEY CAN PUNISH THE LAMMER NOT TAKIN MATTERS IN2 U OWN HANDS

:bigemt
04-21-2006, 01:09 AM
Have you noticed that these days, there are a lot of people that go into Academy multiplayer and just Kill everything that moves!
:atat: I just want to go and have some fun and do a little dueling. And then you get these guys that just run around killing everyone, interupting other poples duels and being really nasty! You ever come across them? And how do we stop them? :sithm:

ui should tell admin so they can punish and BAN
they're is no room in star wars for LAMMERS who wont fallow the rules
http://www.gamesunited.de/ib/html/emoticons/elefant.gif

[USA]-bLaSt
04-21-2006, 01:53 AM
Wow.... :explode:


just.....


.... wow.

dtriniman
04-21-2006, 11:19 PM
bigemt you're retarded.

#1 lots of times the admin are the ones laming (normally or with powers which is called admin abuse) or they don;t deal with lamers.

#2 we r talking about WHAT laming is not how to deal with it. try to read the thread before you reply.

:bigemt
04-22-2006, 12:14 AM
bigemt you're retarded.

#1 lots of times the admin are the ones laming (normally or with powers which is called admin abuse) or they don;t deal with lamers.

#2 we r talking about WHAT laming is not how to deal with it. try to read the thread before you reply.

http://www.gamesunited.de/ib/html/emoticons/schmoll2.gif

Det. Bart Lasiter
04-24-2006, 05:18 PM
bigemt you're retarded.

#1 lots of times the admin are the ones laming (normally or with powers which is called admin abuse) or they don;t deal with lamers.

#2 we r talking about WHAT laming is not how to deal with it. try to read the thread before you reply.
FYI, :bigemt is most likely a troll or spammer.