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jedi_exile
04-24-2006, 01:01 AM
hi im new to the forums and have to say i love it.

IS it just me or does KOTOR2 actually suck? i mean the new people and items were cool and that you were a jedi outcast but the ending was totaly lame and the entire game seemed way to quick, i had to play it 3 times befor i fully got the story. I felt that the games was rushed maybe? but these are just my thoughts. what about you? :lsduel:

Diego Varen
04-24-2006, 01:35 AM
hi im new to the forums and have to say i love it.

IS it just me or does KOTOR2 actually suck? i mean the new people and items were cool and that you were a jedi outcast but the ending was totaly lame and the entire game seemed way to quick, i had to play it 3 times befor i fully got the story. I felt that the games was rushed maybe? but these are just my thoughts. what about you? :lsduel:

Well the Game has a lot of Cut Content. And welcome to the Forums.

BobaFettFan
04-24-2006, 02:26 AM
Yes, it totally sucked. III had better be better.

FiEND_138
04-24-2006, 03:19 AM
No, it's you, the other guy, & some other people.
I prefer tSL over Knights 1 by far....

TSR
04-24-2006, 04:48 AM
i just bought this game on saturday, played it all that day and sunday, and am now at malachor V (is that obsessive?) and i still have no idea what the hell is going on... Im LS, still have an empty party member slot and am stupidly powerful... so atm i prefer KOTOR... i;ve sorta warmed towards those characters...

nas77
04-24-2006, 01:43 PM
The story in TSL is a bit more complicated than KOTOR - you're not spoon-fed the plot as you were in the first game. Obviously the cuts don't help TSL, and there are gaping holes all over the place, but the story is pretty much there.

JediMaster12
04-24-2006, 06:29 PM
If you want to find out what you have been missing in the form of cut content, check out Team Gizka's forum. They are the ones who are restoring the cut content and a different team is restoring a planet that was cut entirely.
Still at first I wondered what was the story behind TSL but after playing it some more, I got to see that the story was there but was hidden with the double talk etc. The best source in the game is Kreia.

The Doctor
04-24-2006, 07:26 PM
The game does not suck. It was simply held to too high a standard by fans. It's a perfectly good game in and of itself.

The missing content can be restored (for the most part). In my opinion, Obsidian left the cut content in the game files so that experienced modders could restore it. If it was an accident, then hey: stupidity and laziness must pay off sometimes.

JediMaster12
04-24-2006, 08:17 PM
Nah. They probably had an idea that the reviews wouldn't be great so they left that in there and now TG is restoring it. Who knew? The Force is a hard thing to predict. Always in motion the future is. :D

90SK
04-24-2006, 08:26 PM
IS it just me or does KOTOR2 actually suck? i mean the new people and items were cool and that you were a jedi outcast but the ending was totaly lame and the entire game seemed way to quick, i had to play it 3 times befor i fully got the story. I felt that the games was rushed maybe? but these are just my thoughts. what about you? :lsduel:

What a refreshingly new perspective. :¨:

No, KotOR II did not suck. Like FiEND, I enjoyed it more than KotOR I for various reasons. Sure, there's cut content. But frankly, without it the game still shines. It's just a very different Star Wars experience. Some people can't handle that.

firehead2591
04-24-2006, 08:33 PM
i liked it because it added more content that the first one didn't have and i guess some people got "confused" because i guess the first one was easier for people to understand...some people do really sit and think about what is going on and then they just let the game happen like its going to spoon-feed you every little detail.....sorry but i had to vent

Emperor Devon
04-24-2006, 09:46 PM
IS it just me or does KOTOR2 actually suck? entire game seemed way to quick, i had to play it 3 times befor i fully got the story. I felt that the games was rushed maybe? but these are just my thoughts. what about you? :lsduel:

Why is it that people consider a game with a story more complex than the previous one's and a large amount of cut content automatic crap? I've seen this rant dozens of times over.

the ending was totaly lame

How was the ending totally lame? For Light Side players, you destroy the main base of the Sith, and go off to the Unknown Regions. For Dark Side players, you defeat your enemy and go off to the Unknown Regions. For both alignments, that is the best way to end the story and ensure that there can be another game. What would have been better?

entire game seemed way to quick

Both games are about as long as each other.

i had to play it 3 times befor i fully got the story.

So the story is inferior because it makes you think harder?

tbl1
04-24-2006, 09:56 PM
The endings in TSL weren't as satisfying as KOTOR I. When you were told about the futures of your characters for LS and DS, they should of been 'more' different (that sounded a bit clumsy). There should also have been differences if they became Jedi or not. In KOTOR I, you saved the republic or you got to take over the galaxy. Also the Bastilla redemption part was also pretty good. TSL had a better story on the way though. The LS and DS endings for each planet were alot more diverse.

jedi_exile
04-24-2006, 11:19 PM
im not saying i hated the game its just that i expected it to be so muck like the first i guess, the problem i had with the ending is that on the xbox version after u beat kreia all u see is the ship coming to pick you up. i havent played the pc version so it might be different i dont know, but the xbox version leaves you with questions, like how did the ship suddenly get unstuck from the gapping crack it fell?and what happened to the other characters? is this sort of stuff answerd on the pc version?

90SK
04-24-2006, 11:24 PM
No, those are things left to the player to infer. There are logical explanations that can be conjured up, but there aren't any official answers.

jedi_exile
04-24-2006, 11:28 PM
i see, it just feels cut off

CountVerilucus
04-25-2006, 12:44 AM
i dont like Kreia but i like to listen to her teachings of the force, they are interesting. Handmaidens teachings of Enchani concepts of battle also seemed cool.

playloud
04-25-2006, 02:40 AM
I have mixed feelings regarding TSL.

Things I like better about TSL

1. I like the Exileís story more than Revanís. Unfortunately, they did not develop it anywhere near as much as they should have.

2. Influence (great idea, but not developed enough)

3. Your personal lightsaber crystal, that changes as you do.

4. More options to customize your weapons/armor.

5. Breaking down and crafting items. (which makes the above even better)

6. I liked having the ability to make one character a Jedi, but all of them? I much rather have just made the Handmaiden OR Atton a Jedi. Making everybody a Jedi really cheapens it. I want a reason to have non-Jedi in the party.

7. Scalable (sp?) UI. When I play at high resolution, I don't like my icons being tiny.

8. Jedi Robes that actually look like Jedi Robes. This is an immersion thing.

9. Pazaak that is FAIR! (I don't go first every time).

10. Prestige classes. They were well done for the most part.


Things that I did not like about TSL:

1. There was not a lot you learned about the Exile as you went through the game. I enjoyed the parts I did learn VERY much. From the Jedi Council flashback, to what Kreia said. However, when you questioned these Masters about their decision (which takes a while to get to one), every Master you spoke with pretty much told you the same thing (which is logical, but not very good for a story).

2. The NPC party members. This game did NOT development them anywhere NEAR as well as in KoTOR I. In the first game, a party members story developed throughout the game. In TSL, there were a few dialog options, the ability to turn them into a Jedi, and that was it. Very poorly done (IMHO) in comparison to the first game. The influence system gave the developers many more options and opportunities for each character. It's a shame it wasn't used well.

3. The combat was WAY too easy. Granted, I prefer to play as a Soldier/Guardian/Weapon Master (it's just the way I like to play), but I don't like being able to kill bosses in one to two hits. I don't know if playing the other classes make it harder or not, but there was not much challenge (even on HARD). It is disappointing when you fight a Sith Lord who can kill a whole planet with the Force, but he goes down rather quickly when he fights you.

4. A Sith Lord who can kill a planet with the Force. Who wrote this? Kevin J. Anderson (who IMHO ruined a lot of the EU SW novels with the "every bad guy is infinitely more powerful than the last" disease? How are they supposed to create a bigger and badder Sith for the next game?

5. The ending. While I don't mind how the game ended for the Exile (it begs for a sequel), I don't like how the rest of the NPC party members ended. It is really a joke.

6. Plot Holes/Logic errors. When you save that city (on Dantooine? been a while since I played TSL), you unleash hell with your saber an powers, and then explain to the Master that you got your powers back (as if he didn't notice already). Cut scenes between the droids that seem to make no difference in the game what so ever (I forget the details. Like I said, been a while). I want to know more about what those cut scenes meant. If they didn't have time to finish the story, they should have taken those parts out.

7. BUGS! TSL had far too many annoying bugs for my taste. Everything from "Why am I looking at Mira, when she is standing behind me (Nar Shadaa), to little glitches when the cut scenes come in, to that cheat node thing (if you patched the game). KoTOR I was POLISHED (at least the patched version, which is all I have played).

JediMaster12
04-25-2006, 02:47 AM
Well I disagree about one character development. The one that was the best developed was Kreia. It took me two playthroughs to get it through my head that she had a alot to offer especially about the path the Jedi were taking. In a twisted sort of way she is like Jolee Bindo. Out of all the NPCs she was the most in depth and most developed which is evident in her part in the story.

playloud
04-25-2006, 02:53 AM
That is true. She was developed. The rest were not however. Not like they should have been anyway.

TSR
04-25-2006, 05:14 AM
agree with Jedimaster there^^^
i've only managed to open up the "who sent you" etc etc convo's with visas, nothing special

Prime
04-25-2006, 11:39 AM
Yes, it totally sucked. III had better be better.Or else what?

Jae Onasi
04-25-2006, 01:43 PM
Or else what?

Or else you'll be editing a ton of posts. :)

Atris2
04-25-2006, 03:53 PM
i believe kotor 1 was way better than kotor 2. it was very long and it told the story complete . kotor 2 was short and the ending is kinda confusing. i hope kotor 3 is better and more understanding on things. so it does suck!!!!!!!!!

Beast-Thrasher
04-25-2006, 04:16 PM
To me I find Kotor 2 a bit longer and if its not it just feels longer. I liked K2 a bit more because it was a more darker story than the average Star Warsy stuff. The characters were good in both games and I was a little disapointed with the ending but I liked the part where you ask Traya about the fate of your friends very nice touch, I liked the DS ending more but the LS ending leaves you, well me inparticular with an emptiness...which is part of the theme in TSL. Both are good games and whether or not the third one ever gets created I'm sure it will be done well.

Achilles
04-26-2006, 05:37 PM
kotor 2 was short LOL! What?!
If you don't count Dxun, Onderon, and Dantooine twice each (two visits), TSL has just as many "planets" as KotOR. If you do count them twice (as I do), then TSL has 3 more than KotOR. Help me understand how TSL is short.

and the ending is kinda confusing.Yep. Pretty widely accepted that the devs had no interest in spoon-feeding the story to us. If you want the whole story, plan on playing a few times and investing some time into drawing your own conclusions. Personally, I found it refreshing (although it did not make me enjoy the original game any less).

i hope kotor 3 is better and more understanding on things.I'm sure K3 will be better, but I certainly hope that it is not because they choose to sacrifice quality storytelling in the interest of making things more easily digestable for those that didn't like TSL.

so it does suck!!!!!!!!!Only 9 exclamation points?

Jae Onasi
04-26-2006, 06:11 PM
Only 9 exclamation points?

Atris2 was going for the subtle effect there. Double digits would have been over the top. ;) :)

Reclaimer
04-26-2006, 06:23 PM
hi im new to the forums and have to say i love it.

IS it just me or does KOTOR2 actually suck? i mean the new people and items were cool and that you were a jedi outcast but the ending was totaly lame and the entire game seemed way to quick, i had to play it 3 times befor i fully got the story. I felt that the games was rushed maybe? but these are just my thoughts. what about you? :lsduel:

Yes, it's only you. KOTOR 2 was great.

Henz
04-26-2006, 06:40 PM
For my answer, look at my thread titled something along the lines of "KOTORII is GAY" lol.

It's not that bad, but the ending especially suffered from being rushed.

Atris2
04-26-2006, 07:19 PM
look achilles, i can put the amount of exclamation points i want O.K.

second off all, that is how I feel about kotor 2 I FELT LIKE PUTTING THAT OPINION ON THIS THREAD. BECAUSE THATS WHY IT'S CALLED 'IS IT ONLY ME

i really don't want an arrugement occuring, cuz thats your opinion and i haven't said nothing about your opinion towards the game.

Achilles
04-26-2006, 08:10 PM
look achilles, i can put the amount of exclamation points i want O.K.Yes, it's quite apparent that you can.

second off all, that is how I feel about kotor 2 I FELT LIKE PUTTING THAT OPINION ON THIS THREAD. BECAUSE THATS WHY IT'S CALLED 'IS IT ONLY MEYou're right: it is your opinion and you're entitled to it. Because you posted it in a message board, that means that I'm entitled to respond to it (which I did).

i really don't want an arrugement occuring, cuz thats your opinion and i haven't said nothing about your opinion towards the game.Neither do I. In fact, I'm a little bewildered as to why you felt this comment was necessary considering that my message had no personal attacks (i.e. "your opinion is stupid", "you're dumb for thinking that", etc).

Jae Onasi
04-27-2006, 12:29 AM
^ Probably didn't help that I teased a bit, too--sorry if I offended.

@Atris2--some of us have a really dry sense of humor, and it's harder to translate that in written form since we can't see the facial cues. We're not trying to be mean.

@JM12--comparing my favorite amusingly exasperating oldster to the manipulative witch that is Kreia is just wicked and evil. :D

shinyjedi
04-27-2006, 01:52 AM
The first couple of times I played through I didn't speak to Kreia at the end, and I was left totally unsatisfied with the end. (for an even worse ending, play Redneck Rampage 2) Later, I quizzed her thoroughly before telling her to rest and was much more satisfied. It's kind of disconcerting, I think, because it's so atypical of the genre. I expected a clean ending and I had to work for it instead. While I still mourn the lack of a complete product, I can say that I've replayed TSL more often and with more enjoyment than Kotor 1. Even with all the cut content, the game seems fuller, somehow.

Atris2
04-27-2006, 03:35 PM
ok, so i was offended a little, so whatever.

Jasper_Kazai
04-27-2006, 03:44 PM
In KotOR II, I only played Peragus. I don't own it myself, I was playing it on Xbox at a friend's house (and he had borrowed it from one of his friends). I watched my friend play a bit... Although it was confusing for me, since he was like in the middle of the game. (Also, at the time, I still hadn't beaten KotOR I yet.) I watched him fight Master Kavar or something... I think. It was last summer, so almost a year ago. I just remember him fighting a Jedi of some sort and then talking to a queen. Later, on another day (I go to this guy's house a LOT over the summer), I watched him wandering around a cave (I believe he was close to finishing the game). I also think I remember him fighting Sion... Or, at least, about to fight Sion. And that's it.
From what I played, it was ok. I can't really judge it, though. It was the first planet, and I hate Taris, so I'm assuming that since it was the first planet, it wasn't as good as the rest of the game.

Beast-Thrasher
04-27-2006, 07:06 PM
and I hate Taris,

Really? Taris is so fun, for me anyway. In comparison with the first planet of KII Taris beats Peragus hands down but there two different games, two different storylines but I just liked Taris over Peragus. Anyway sorry that that's off topic but KII still rocks my socks oooh yaaa.

Briggs
04-28-2006, 07:58 AM
the best developed was Kreia.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think the Handmaiden is the BEST DEVELOPED. She gives good old Bastilla a run for her money if you get what I'm saying.

Jae Onasi
04-28-2006, 11:06 AM
I'm going to have to disagree. I think the Handmaiden is the BEST DEVELOPED. She gives good old Bastilla a run for her money if you get what I'm saying.

:) Some of you people need to turn off the game and get out a little more often. ;)

JediMaster12
04-28-2006, 12:31 PM
@JM12--comparing my favorite amusingly exasperating oldster to the manipulative witch that is Kreia is just wicked and evil. :D
All I'm saying is that they both have the right idea in terms of seeing things in neither light nor dark. Frankly both extremes annoy me so. Jolee does have lightside leanings and Kreia has her darker ones so they are opposite in a way.

I maintain that Kreia was one of the better developed characters in the game because the whole objective behind her was to make the PC understand that not everything is the way we are taught to believe. She is that kind of character that says, "you may be right but what about this?"
The handmaiden was useful in terms of combat and not necessarily dialogue. Personally she did kick serious butt but her dialogue wsa an iffy. At least it was better than Visas creepy "My life for yours."

Darth Manus
04-28-2006, 01:06 PM
The game was awfully rushed... And I wonder what would happen if someone locked Jolee and Kreia in the same room. Now that would be hilarious.

TSR
04-28-2006, 01:20 PM
:) Some of you people need to turn off the game and get out a little more often. ;)

lol, last time i said that on another forum about some wierdo jac*ing off over a character, i got de-repped and banned for a month!
still, i have to agree :xp:

Briggs
04-28-2006, 09:59 PM
:) Some of you people need to turn off the game and get out a little more often. ;)

lol. If I got out any more I could be homeless.

JediMaster12
04-29-2006, 02:37 AM
Nah, you would be considered normal and that's a good thing :D

bobogarcia
04-30-2006, 03:14 PM
I liked it, but it wasnt as innovative as K1

jedi_exile
05-05-2006, 12:20 PM
I'm going to have to disagree. I think the Handmaiden is the BEST DEVELOPED. She gives good old Bastilla a run for her money if you get what I'm saying.

I have to disagree with all of you! i think the best development was the apprentice (joins your party if your female) him being your old padawan and what not, that was cool. the only people that should have ben able to become jedi would have to him and the handmaiden. just my oppinion.

JediMaster12
05-05-2006, 12:36 PM
His backstory wasn't even complete! Kreia is the most developed because she was created with ulterior motives contrary to the Sith and Jedi. She was a person and a law unto herself.

TSR
05-05-2006, 01:40 PM
the whole game was practically based around her

Jasper_Kazai
05-05-2006, 02:33 PM
I have to disagree with all of you! i think the best development was the apprentice (joins your party if your female) him being your old padawan and what not, that was cool. the only people that should have ben able to become jedi would have to him and the handmaiden. just my oppinion.He's not talking about story... He's... Never mind.

90SK
05-05-2006, 04:00 PM
I liked it, but it wasnt as innovative as K1

I'd tend to disagree with that. Of course KotOR I was more technically innovative, considering it was new, KotOR II's general plot and characters took a totally new spin on the Star Wars theme, which made the game much more unique and interesting to play through.

playloud
05-05-2006, 05:34 PM
I liked the extra options for customization in K2 (a larger variety of powers/feats, breaking down/crafting items, etc), and I even liked the story of the Exile, and the story of Kreia. However, the rest of the group was under-developed in my opinion. I would have preferred more attention to the other party members, and given them more backstory and depth.

zadi
05-05-2006, 05:47 PM
I liked the extra options for customization in K2 (a larger variety of powers/feats, breaking down/crafting items, etc), and I even liked the story of the Exile, and the story of Kreia. However, the rest of the group was under-developed in my opinion. I would have preferred more attention to the other party members, and given them more backstory and depth.

The first few times I played TSL, I LOVED the game but now.... I find it very lacking in the plot. The plot is horrible in TSL. Even the story of the Exile is incomplete and really lacks compared to the original game.

playloud
05-05-2006, 05:52 PM
The first few times I played TSL, I LOVED the game but now.... I find it very lacking in the plot. The plot is horrible in TSL. Even the story of the Exile is incomplete and really lacks compared to the original game.
I think we should have learned more of the Exile throughout the game. When you would speak with the Jedi Masters, they would all have the same information for you. I would have thought you would learn something "new" from each Master.

I enjoy playing LS more than DS in the KoTOR series, however I think I am going to try TSL as DS for the first time. Perhaps I will get more information this time around.

shinyjedi
05-05-2006, 08:08 PM
I agree that the plot could have used a whole lot more development, and the endgame could have been better, the NPCs could have been considerably improved by having more interaction and exposition and more fully developed backgrounds. The romance arc was completely inadequate.

What all of the above tells me is that I wanted more. More immersion, more gameplay, more character. What THAT tells me is that the game grabbed hold of me and wouldn't let go. If the game had been crap, I could have cared less about omissions. I'd have played it through, enunciated the proper degree of "Meh." and moved on to whatever was next. TSL grabbed me hard and shook me into recognizing it's shortcomings by hammering me with its greatness. So it wasn't as great as we'd have liked it to be? It was great enough to get me to play it over and over when I'd all but given up video games. It was great enough for me to actually start to learn modding when I'd never given a rat's posterior for game additions even when I'd still been playing them. That's good enough for me. (although I still want more of all of the above)

I played TSL before I obtained KOTOR, and played KOTOR because I'd enjoyed TSL so much. I think I can honestly say that, had I gotten hold of KOTOR first, I'd not have gone on to the second game. While it was a very good game, it didn't grab me like TSL did. I'd have run through, said, "that was great," and moved on to something else. TSL left me craving MORE!