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DarthMaulUK
05-09-2006, 08:33 AM
So the announcement has been made and Empire at War gains its first, from I hope many, expansions.

Alot of debate has focused on the negative sides of the game going 'sideways' and leaving out some of the traditional characters from the galaxy.

However, as most of you know, some of the best games have come from new content and direction. Knights of the Old Republic was set 4000 years before all this started and was brilliant - Dark Forces brought us new characters and Shadows of The Empire did the same.

I'm dead excited at the news and cant wait for it. Whats your thoughts?

And remember - NO flaming and keep it ON topic and constructive - a reminder as this is a very heated discussion topic

DMUK

popcorn2008
05-09-2006, 08:50 AM
I really do like the idea! Witht the article yesterday it just didnt give the expansion justice. But it is apparent that the expansion will continue where EaW left off and go straight down the road to RoTJ era.

It is apparent there are going to be more advanced features added, slowing production anyone? And this is really going to add flavor to the game.

With the addition of new units and obviously new maps it is going to be excellent.

darthcarth
05-09-2006, 08:59 AM
Well its not what i expected but i do like it, it will give a new twist to the game.

Jeff
05-09-2006, 09:44 AM
I like the way they're going with it. Having all the heroes he know and love would be nice, but I'm all about doing things differently like they have done with this expansion. And since this is something completely new, it has tons of potential to go in any direction.

Destroyder121
05-09-2006, 09:55 AM
Not exactly what i expected, but i like the idea Petroglyph is having so far.
The whole Pirate faction could be very interesting..

Doran
05-09-2006, 11:34 AM
The technical side of the expansion sounds great, but I don't think they'll be able to pull off the storyline properly. I'm not opposed to the idea of a new big-time villan being introduced, nor the possibility that he might be able to sieze an Eclipse-Class SSD. But I doubt Petroglyph's ability to tell a story of depth required to explain all of this stuff using the EaW engine. I could be wrong, but so far it sounds like a sure-fired continuity mess that will have to be sorted out later.

Lord hobo
05-09-2006, 11:37 AM
this is an intreting way to go, i hope it improves on the areas that EAW was weak on

Igor_Cavkov
05-09-2006, 12:33 PM
YES! great petro! just the way i want it!.. just that pirates taking over Eclipse-Class SSD sound allitle off.. but offcourse we dont know exactly as for now,..

zac naloen
05-09-2006, 01:28 PM
I could be wrong, but so far it sounds like a sure-fired continuity mess that will have to be sorted out later.



EAW is technically so low on the canon scale as to be practically non-continuity. So this isn't really much of an issue.


I like the way this is going, it sounds like it could be fun.

Also, it'll add more pirate units to the game which is always good.

popcorn2008
05-09-2006, 01:34 PM
EAW is technically so low on the canon scale as to be practically non-continuity. So this isn't really much of an issue.
Says who?

In fact, the newer ships of EaW have actually become part of the Star Wars universe now. Continuity is a big deal in any Star Wars game.

Don't worry Petro has some of the best working for them ;) Im sure they can do it justice with their engine.

Marsman2020
05-09-2006, 03:40 PM
They are still upgrading the Imps and Rebs, so you can still play as them. They were just telling us a small part of the whole expansion (the pirate part) to get us going. I love the idea for multiplayer! Hiring out the pirates and betting you can deal with them later if they get stronger...

zac naloen
05-09-2006, 04:30 PM
Says who?

In fact, the newer ships of EaW have actually become part of the Star Wars universe now. Continuity is a big deal in any Star Wars game.

Don't worry Petro has some of the best working for them ;) Im sure they can do it justice with their engine.


so says the canon policy for Star Wars as far as Lucas Film/Lucas Arts have specified.

All Games with the Star Wars label are right down the bottom of the pile as far as Canon goes. If something from a game is used in higher up Canon then thats cool, but anything that happens in the game that is contradicted by a novel from the star wars EU or the Films is superceded by that higher source.

popcorn2008
05-09-2006, 05:28 PM
I wouldnt go so far as to say the video games are not part of continuity though. If what you were saying is the case then developers could go all out creating wacky Star Wars spin-offs because it doesnt matter. But they still must conform with Star Wars history.

Here's the actual Cannon policy:
Now the top level of Canon is George Lucas and the films. AkA G-Level Cannon.
Expanded Universe as a whole falls under C-Level Cannon.

So all EU is on the same playing field. Also, Newer>Older (for G-Cannon) in continuity for the most part. That is why the Special Editions of Star Wars supercede the original releases.

So technically a novel writer cant go out and write a novel saying Kyle Katarn never visited the Valley of the Jedi, because C-Cannon says otherwise. (Jedi Knight Video games) But if Lucas had for example included Kyle in Episode III (For example) and made that statement, than yes that could supercede C-Cannon.

wedge2211
05-09-2006, 07:03 PM
That is why the Special Editions of Star Wars supercede the original releases.
*cries*

Commander Obi-Wan
05-09-2006, 09:36 PM
Nope. I ain't liking this idea. Though my opinion may be biased, 'cause I hate EU. But, I'll still look into it.

EDIT: Actually I am interested now....strange.

Nakatomi2010
05-09-2006, 11:02 PM
I understand where this is going and honestly I'm having visions of Yuri's Revenge where we had 2 sides ultimatly fighting a third...

The biggest reason Star Wars games are so low on the cannon level is because of how no one really wants to experience the same sort of thing over again, because of the nature of EaW they can go into older games and dredge up stuff and incorporate it because it does exist and it allows them to give it a fresh perspective in new light. Like the TIE Phantoms, they were introduced in Rebel Assault 2, they're fighters that can cloak, must de-cloak to fire though and if I remember correctly can hyperspace on their own too....

So my view is this, chances are the continuity will be from a Rebel "victory" since they destroyed the Death Star (And in the history of EVERY game with a sequal the good guys won before, necause the bad guy winning meant total annhilation). So we'll have both sides start fighting each other and a mission or two in things will happen where this pirate faction begins to show itself, then the Rebel or Imperial enemy takes a back burner for a couple moments while the new threat asserts itself, then as you win some more the two threats combine ala Dune RTS, or Generals Zero Hour games where for the last few fights are against the combined forces of both factions...


Should be interesting... I want my 'It's a Trap' slot, where the Imperials can hide a SINGLE fleet around one planet in the entire galaxy, where even recon doesn't see it, can't be a MASSIVE fleet as it'd be hard to hide, but enough to put up an unexpected fight and give the attacker a bloody nose.... Limit it by pop cap size, so the 'It's a Trap' slot would have a limit of say 20-35 pop cap points... Not enough to win the fight, but enough the make the enemy think about retreating or commiting with a secondary fleet on standby....

The Death Star
05-10-2006, 10:53 AM
The pirate part to me does not really appeal to me. I do hope you can still Play as the Empire and Rebels.
Why?
Empire: SUPER. STAR. DESTROYER. EXECUTOR. (so the pirates can get the Eclipse, I will always prefer The Executor) Hopefully The Death Star 2. God destroying Capital ships would be ace!

DarkLeeLee
05-10-2006, 10:11 PM
no i dont like where there going, story line in the first one was rather rushed and i cant really see the next one being any better

aggie_john
05-12-2006, 05:54 PM
I was surprised they didnt go purely post ep IV or Clone wars but this is really kinda intresting. Why not shake it up alittle. I dont want to play as these pirates but I will really enjoy crushing them with my SSD's and DS II. Wonder if you will be able to build both the DS and the DS II at the same time in Galactic Conquest mode?

Darth Anarch
05-12-2006, 06:38 PM
In all fairness the expansion doesn't just "go sideways". The incorporation of the B-wing, the SSD and not to mention the second Death Star certainly demonstrates that the timeline is moving steadily forward. So we probably don't get to replay the Battle of Endor (although who knows?) but I can live with that. When I blew up the first Death Star in the Rebel campaign it didn't happen anywhere near Yavin and that was fine. :thmbup1:

Admiral Raven
05-13-2006, 07:36 AM
I love the idea of the pirates. It was totaly unexpected which I like and some of their new ships look really cool. Also the eclipse/executor... nuff said.

The Source
05-13-2006, 08:06 AM
I made a pledge not to write in this forums; however, I thought I would answer this one question. I think it was important to add other elements that were not Empire and Republic to the game. What deeply conscerns me is that this expansion pack has a lot of items, which the modders wanted to create for the game. I know that Petro visits these forums, so I am guessing that the reason why they did not release modding tools (Map Editor, Etc...), and why they keep delaying it, is so they can keep coming to this site and make a profit off of everyone's ideas. Otherwords, they are taking inventory of what everyone is commenting on, and then they are going to sell to you on what you as a modder want to do. Some changes are very logical.

Lets look at what is going to be in the 'Expansion' Pack, which modders were pushing to add themsevles:
1. Death Star that can fire on the fleet.
(I saw this mentioned a few hundred times in these forums.

2. Tie Interscepter & Vader's Star Destroyer
(I know this is logical to add, but it was definately mentioned by a modder.)

This is only a few, but one cannot help but wonder what their intent is, and I think they need to justify their intentions. If you happen to notice that other Lucas Arts games are not getting this treatment.

They are going to sell to us the modders what we want to design for this game, and put a illogical price on the whole deal as well. When will it stop?!

There is no doubt in my mind that they are coming to these forums, so they can make a profit from what they see here. I have seen this before, and I can see it in Petroglyphs actions. What are the chances that they are using these forums as a marketing tool, so they can get more money from the average modder/game player.

All I am asking everyone to do is to think about the possibility...

Prediction:
The price of the Expansion Pack will be about $30-$40, which is the average price for a whole game. They will not sell the Expansion pack for the normal $20. It is all about money, money, money...

Darth Anarch
05-13-2006, 08:43 AM
I made a pledge not to write in this forums; however, I thought I would answer this one question. I think it was important to add other elements that were not Empire and Republic to the game. What deeply conscerns me is that this expansion pack has a lot of items, which the modders wanted to create for the game. I know that Petro visits these forums, so I am guessing that the reason why they did not release modding tools (Map Editor, Etc...), and why they keep delaying it, is so they can keep coming to this site and make a profit off of everyone's ideas. Otherwords, they are taking inventory of what everyone is commenting on, and then they are going to sell to you on what you as a modder want to do. Some changes are very logical.

Lets look at what is going to be in the 'Expansion' Pack, which modders were pushing to add themsevles:
1. Death Star that can fire on the fleet.
(I saw this mentioned a few hundred times in these forums.

2. Tie Interscepter & Vader's Star Destroyer
(I know this is logical to add, but it was definately mentioned by a modder.)

This is only a few, but one cannot help but wonder what their intent is, and I think they need to justify their intentions. If you happen to notice that other Lucas Arts games are not getting this treatment.

They are going to sell to us the modders what we want to design for this game, and put a illogical price on the whole deal as well. When will it stop?!

There is no doubt in my mind that they are coming to these forums, so they can make a profit from what they see here. I have seen this before, and I can see it in Petroglyphs actions. What are the chances that they are using these forums as a marketing tool, so they can get more money from the average modder/game player.

All I am asking everyone to do is to think about the possibility...

Prediction:
The price of the Expansion Pack will be about $30-$40, which is the average price for a whole game. They will not sell the Expansion pack for the normal $20. It is all about money, money, money...
Wow! :Open2: I'm speechless. The developers pay attention to fan feedback and incorporate elements that people are asking for, and you accuse them of stealing people's ideas? That's the most ridiculous claim I've heard in a long time. Just because someone, somewhere, mentions that "hey, TIE Interceptors would be cool" they somehow have a copyright on that idea and the developers should be banned from implementing TIE Interceptors in an expansion? It boggles the mind.

Personally I'm glad the map editor was delayed. Yes, I've been plenty frustrated about the delay, but when I saw Darth_Torpid's post...
Actually, these maps will be done using a relatively new funtion of the map editor that we just never had the time to exploit. In fact, the map editor you guys will eventually get to download will have this feature. You'll see...
...that new features would be included it occurred to me that perhaps it was a good thing. Can you imagine the whining we would be listening to later if the editor had come out without this feature and it had subsequently been revealed? There would be hordes of people screaming bloody murder about how LEC/Petro had "cheated" them out of that feature.

And when you say that "other Lucas Arts games are not getting this treatment"; the fact that EaW is getting more/better support is a bad thing now? Since when?

And of course it's about money. You'd hardly expect people to work 40+ hour weeks to create this game for free, would you?

The Source
05-13-2006, 09:48 AM
I would be more worried about the one who is the follower than the one who sees wisdom.

Look below the surface and not above it.

wedge2211
05-13-2006, 02:17 PM
I'm sure you are correct, MacLeodCorp, because after all, you just declared yourself "wise." :P

There is no reason why the developers should limit their expansion to items untouched by modders. First of all, the expansion will be professionally produced, and therefore will be of much higher quality than a mod. Second, the developers have access to all the EaW development machinery that modders lack, so their new units--while maybe the same units being implemented in mods--may include new features that mods cannot create (for instance, a superlaser that fires on capital ships or cloaking devices). Third, everyone in both the modding community and at Petroglyph has to work within the Star Wars universe--so of course many of the ideas are going to overlap!

Darth Plagus
05-13-2006, 02:55 PM
I think this expansion is going to be awesome. I've watched the video and...CLOAKED SHIPS!!! I MEAN COME ON thats sweeeeet. The only thing ive seen so far that i dont like about this 'expansion' is yodas berserk ability. I can only begin to imagine a board like jabiim where you can't use the tanks so you end up with a lot of infantry and your pop. cap goes down about 5 points in 10 seconds because of a little green guy. I know that vader can push people and the emporer can electrify them, but neither of them can take out the amount of troops that yoda is going to be able to do. I LOVE THE IDEA OF THE FORCE SIGHT THING THOUGH....that will really help with planning strategy during the game...oh and an invisible luke skywalker....i mean....i'd buy the expansion just for the new cloaking abilities of ships and units..

Honestly i dont see how anyone can be upset about Petro's choice here. They are putting there mark on the star wars universe just as the numerous other game developers have and i must say...And quite honestly (you people at petro can use this if you want) take this game and just make it perfect...i mean spend at least a year on it and add even more stuff from post EP. VI and call it EAW 2!!!!

Oh...and i reallllllllly dont like the idea of a 'lightsaber whip'. its never really worked for me.....but maybe thats just me..........

OH AND THE ECLIPSE, from what i've read, is able to carry pre-fabbed bases(article from wikipedia i think, very in depth...my congrats to whoever wrote it). So are we going to be able to once we take the planet, if we have the eclipse in orbit, can we automatically have our base built? rather than have to build it piece by piece? I THINK THIS WOULD be a great addition to the game....and somethign to keep in mind.

The Source
05-13-2006, 04:45 PM
I am glad they are producing a 'Expansion Pack', but I am more conscerned over how they got their intel. I am still far from wise. I may like to stretch a little, but I am very far from wise.

Of course by the time they release it, the engine will be very, very, very primitive. I have seen something that will knock EAW into next week, and then back around again. It is also a RTS, and it will hit shelves soon.

Darth Anarch
05-13-2006, 07:02 PM
Their "intel"? What do you think they are, the CIA? For the last time: Petroglyph don't need to monitor the forums to get idea; it's not as though the community invented the SSD or the TIE Interceptor.

Engine being primitive? As compared to what? Some unnamed game by some anonymous developer that you claim to have seen that may or may not hit shelves soon? EaW was never meant to break new ground in the graphics department like Half-Life 2 or F.E.A.R. did when they were released. It is a solid engine that looks good enough (quite awesome on a very high-end machine) and propels the gameplay forward like it's meant to do.

Admiral Raven
05-13-2006, 07:53 PM
I think Mac is just suffering from parnoia.

The Source
05-13-2006, 10:00 PM
Instead of going off subject, I sent you a PM with specifics. I didn't want to interfere with the subject at hand. Or - Click on the links in my signature.

Actually, I should not be online when I am under the gun. I have been studying for finals this week, so my brain is fried. Every time I have midterms or finals my persception is blown off course.

lukeiamyourdad
05-14-2006, 07:12 PM
I think Mac is just suffering from parnoia.


Wouldn't be the first time he posts some illogical stuff. He got rammed into by me and Achilles back at the SWK boards when he showed that he had no idea how a business works.

I think all should try to think for themselves and looks for information rather then listen to anything people can claim. Verify the information. Ask yourself what you would do. Don't let yourself be controlled by some demagogue.

starwarsnerd
05-27-2006, 04:31 PM
those who oppose me are doomed to failure.
do not make this mistake.