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Zoom Rabbit
01-26-2001, 10:14 AM
Just heard on CNN that my favorite subcontinent, India, was struck with a 7.9 richter-scale earthquake. That's eighty times as powerful as the one in Loma Prieta (California) and centered in one of the poorest, most densely-populated areas of the world. Right now the death toll is in the hundreds, but the crisis is pretty much still going on, and the reckoning won't be known for days. These first twenty-four hours are the most critical for rescuing people trapped in the collapsed rubble; at this very moment, some hurt and terrified people are praying desperately with everything they have.

I would request that the rest of us take a moment to join our prayers with theirs.

The quake was centered in Gujarat. That's not far from Punjab. Those forumites familiar with me will recognize that I have a number of friends (all named Singh http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif ) from Punjab. At this moment I am fearful for the relatives of people I know.

Thank you. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/smile.gif Funny sig to brighten this dark post:

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http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/3129/awingtrs.gif
'Don't shoot--Your sister's in the cockpit with me!'

(Customized taunt #227)

[This message has been edited by Zoom Rabbit (edited January 26, 2001).]

KNIGHT_FEDAYKIN
01-26-2001, 10:16 AM
thats not good to hear http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif

Admiral
01-26-2001, 01:12 PM
I hope the families the best.

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."
(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

garyah99
01-26-2001, 01:57 PM
I'm already adding MY prayers. I'm listening to the news now, At least 500 people have been killed and they say that could easily rise to over 1000. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif

Thrawn
01-26-2001, 02:15 PM
I heard that they had felt tremors, but i hadn't heard about this.
My thoughts and prayers are with all of them.

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"Noobies Suck"
ThRaWn90,RAL_Thrawn,SOB_Thrawn
Rogue 6

Gold leader
01-26-2001, 02:21 PM
Mine too.

At least 500 killed is new for me too.

Nute Gunray
01-26-2001, 05:27 PM
The death toll is already up to around 2000.

Something doesn't seem right Zoom...Loma Prieta was a 7.1 The 1906 one in San Francisco was 8.3 and "ten times as powerful" as Loma Prieta (I have all the newspaper articles from back then and I always dig them out when I hear about a big quake) Neither of those estimates seems right to me...I wonder what the magnitude multipler thing IS...

[This message has been edited by Nute Gunray (edited January 26, 2001).]

Cmdr. Cracken
01-26-2001, 05:57 PM
The ricter scale works on a multiplyer of ten, so a EQ on the ricter scale of 2 is TEN TIMES MORE POWERFUl than a EQ that registered on the richter scale of 1.
so, a 8.3 is ABOUT Ten times more powerful than a 7.1. ABOUT, you have to take into accnt the .2 difference, so it's actually about 10.2 times more powerful.

I'm the genius, i know, you can all stop bowing to me now. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Thor
01-26-2001, 07:06 PM
I also have Indian friends whose families were there....
I hope for the best for everybody there

Zoom Rabbit
01-27-2001, 08:15 AM
Phones are out...no news.

Looking pretty grim over there. And what's up with all these other quakes around the world? http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/eek.gif

Message to India: please accept outside help! Really. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif

Cmdr. Cracken
01-27-2001, 03:03 PM
Again, i must explain.................. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif
There are 2 types of waves accociated with EQ's, P-Waves, and S-Waves. P waves are the fastest, and are like taking a slinky, streaching it out, and pushing it forward quickly. S-Waves are what everyone feels though. there like taking said slinky and moving it side ways, like water waves. now, These waves can travel through the earth, but only P-waves can go through the the core. so, All those smaller EQ's around the world we're the result of the really big one in India, because the waves we're really, really strong.

Darth Sceltor
01-27-2001, 04:05 PM
I remember one time about 10 years ago we had an earthquake here, as in by my house (I live close to the New Madrid Fault). It wasn't very strong, but it did shake the house up and make me fall off the couch. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Admiral
01-27-2001, 07:09 PM
This talk just made me remember a sad time for me. I was around 6 years old maybe younger, I'm not sure. Well I was living on an Airforce base, and the night before there was a nice big rain storm. The next day me, my brother and a friend go outside in the back of some houses. The base was doing some kind of constuction and there were some ditches around. There in a ditch filled with water. we found a manican or at least what we thought was a manican (we were young). Well it turns out that we were wrong and it was a the brother of a family we knew, how had drowned in the ditch trying to get a ball. From what my parents have told me it was tramatic for me and my brother obviously, finding a dead person. Can't remember anything after that really.

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."
(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

Coffeebean_uk
01-28-2001, 06:10 PM
My thoughts and prayers are with them.
Well not my prayers im not a religous man

Zoom Rabbit
01-28-2001, 10:51 PM
Wally the space dolphin doesn't believe in Coffeebean, either. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif Nevertheless...

Thoughts work. In that big subconscious mixing pool where we all go to dream at night, positive wishes get passed on to the people that really need them. The survivors could use that positive mental energy right now to hold themselves up as they face the challenges of continuing to survive in the rubble; disease hasn't yet set in, but the infrastructure is compromised badly enough that living conditions could get that bad. If you and I can lend our strength to those earthquake victims as a species sharing a common destiny...well, who cares how it happens?

http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Nute Gunray
01-28-2001, 10:59 PM
what if it wasn't an earthquake? what if it was a pakistani nuclear strike? Pakistan and India are both calling "earthquake" so they don't look like evil countries for actually getting involved in a nuclear war... http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/redface.gif

maybe i should go back to sleep http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif

Zoom Rabbit
01-29-2001, 08:46 AM
Some good news. All of my Punjabi friends' family are alive and well. Apparently, the damage wasn't that bad in their area. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/smile.gif

However, the death toll is now estimated to be around twenty thousand. Everyone should read that last sentence again and think about it quietly for a moment.

http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif

Nute Gunray
01-29-2001, 02:00 PM
i read that 12 hours ago. i'm ahead of the curve here. i get to be noisy while everyone else is quiet.

SadShadow
01-29-2001, 06:09 PM
the body count its now about 15000 http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif
very tragic...
Rest in Peace...
May the Force be with you...
(i forgot a 0 http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif i wish it only 1500
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"Im becoming less human..."

SadShadow
The Lone Shadow Wing

[This message has been edited by SadShadow (edited January 30, 2001).]

JR2000Z
01-29-2001, 07:38 PM
There in a happier place now.

garyah99
01-30-2001, 01:01 AM
Just heard on the news that the death toll could rise to over 100,000 (that's right, 5 0's). And I could give you my thoughts on the reasons for so many earthquakes recently, but I don't want to start a controversy.

[This message has been edited by garyah99 (edited January 29, 2001).]

Zoom Rabbit
01-30-2001, 06:10 AM
A multi-spatial singularity, traveling at high velocity, at a right angle to the solar system's ecliptic, has disturbed the Earth's tectonics?

My thoughts exactly!

Gold leader
01-30-2001, 08:02 AM
You believe in multi-spatial singularities? Pfwah!

Zoom Rabbit
01-30-2001, 09:07 AM
If singularities aren't multispatial--occupying more than their immediate area of space--then into what do they remove matter from this universe?

Can't have a wormhole through nothing, jack! http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/tongue.gif

Gold leader
01-30-2001, 10:07 AM
Easy question Zoom. Singularities don't remove matter from the universe. They compress it. Only a bit better than winzip. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/smile.gif
Wormholes are just creations by SF writers. They've never been discovered and it's unlikely that they ever will be.
Ask Wally if you don't believe me. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Zoom Rabbit
01-30-2001, 10:30 AM
Okay...time to get technical. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif

To put this in visual terms that every lay scientist here can follow--I will cite the Einsteinian demonstration of space/time and gravitation relativity that uses a simple sheet of rubber and a ball. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Stretch the rubber sheet tightly. This two-dimensional plane represents three-dimensional space for our model. Now...toss the ball onto the sheet. The dimple the ball causes by stretching the sheet represents gravity; it is mass distorting the fabric of space/time. A normal object causes a minor dimple, which stays with it no matter where on the sheet it rolls--just like gravity.

Say we make that ball really, really heavy...like our supermassive singularity. It now pulls the sheet down with it, into a long tube. This is where we get to the crux of my biscuit; it is a minor point, so pay attention.

Into what dimension is our rubber sheet being pulled? Remember, the sheet represents all of three-dimensional space. So what is this space into which normal space is distorted by a singularity? Something more than space...other than space.

Making a singularity multispatial in nature. See what I'm getting at? Probably not. Nevermind.

It's late. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif Good night.

SadShadow
01-30-2001, 01:28 PM
God Bless you http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif
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"Im becoming less human..."

SadShadow
The Lone Shadow Wing

[This message has been edited by SadShadow (edited January 30, 2001).]

Gold leader
01-30-2001, 02:23 PM
Not technical enough, I'm afraid.

You answered your question (into what dimension the sheet is being pulled) yourself. Namely, it is the same dimension as the dimple, a third dimension of the sheet. This third (our fourth) dimension, also known as time, is stretched under the influence of the singularity. But it's stretched to an infinte length. In other words, the behaviour of the sheet is asymptotic. That means that the rubber sheet never touches that alleged "other space".

But let's imagine that it could be possible that normal space contacts "other space". Would the singularity then pop through the sheet into the "other space"? Does that free the rubber sheet of the singularity, causing the sheet to spring back? Would it cause a sinusoidal motion of the sheet and what consequences would that have?

Interesting questions that scream for an answer. I think I'm gonna call Stephan Hawking. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif



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Yo, Echelon! Bomb, Osama Bin Laden, nuclear, terrorism, assassination, Saddam, C4, murder, marxism, biological warfare.
SPY ON ME.

Zoom Rabbit
01-30-2001, 09:23 PM
Yeah, get the doc in here!

...And maybe a pizza. Hold the mushrooms.

Admiral
01-30-2001, 10:11 PM
I heard over 100,000 could be dead know.

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."
(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

Zoom Rabbit
01-31-2001, 09:05 AM
*Levity vanishes*

Yeah, I heard that, too! I was looking through some of the still shots at CNN.com, and the buildings are just shattered! Like they were made of clay or something...

I realize that the building standards in Gujarat may be less safe for earthquakes than here on the west coast of the United States, but the damage was still largely due to what a huge freaking earthquake it was! http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/eek.gif

I'm glad that India is taking foreign aid at least. In a world as interconnected as ours, no nation should have to bear a disaster like this alone.

http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif

garyah99
01-31-2001, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit:
A multi-spatial singularity, traveling at high velocity, at a right angle to the solar system's ecliptic, has disturbed the Earth's tectonics?

My thoughts exactly! Actually I was thinking more in terms of Bible prophecy. Try reading Matthew 24. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/smile.gif

Cmdr. Cracken
01-31-2001, 09:57 PM
Can you type the prophecy in, because some of us don't have a copy of the Bible.

garyah99
02-01-2001, 01:14 AM
My Pleasure....Matthew 24 vs 4 - 8.."Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming,"I am the Christ", and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains."

There is much more to Jesus end times prophecies, but I don't think you want all 35 verses of Matthew 24. If you want more info, check out Ezekiel, Daniel, Jeremiah, Thessalonians, and of course Revelation. Approximately 25% of the Bible is prophecy.

Zoom Rabbit
02-01-2001, 08:02 AM
So that extra dimension we warp our singularity into is time? *(Abruptly returns to the physics.)* I suppose that makes sense...it explains the time dilation associated with mass, and verifies the multispatiality (via time, quantum etc.) associated with everything!

Why, then, do we always hear reference to space/time, which are supposed to be coexistant? Wouldn't this model suggest that they are separate? http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/confused.gif

Hey, where's that professor we sent out for--and the pizza? I ain't payin' if it's cold!

Gold leader
02-02-2001, 10:24 AM
The doc is getting the pizza, but his wheelchair can only do 8 mi/h so I expect him to be back by 5 a.m. tomorrow. So you'd better start warming up the microwave.

Time isn't separate from space. It's just one of the coordinate axis of space/time. There's a x, y, z and time axis. Together they form space/time.

Zoom Rabbit
02-03-2001, 08:28 AM
This unit has not downloaded that math. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif I'm afraid I must stick with simple, spatial understanding. So far I can grok the three dimensions, then expand it in the 'time' direction, giving a fourth...but it still seems to me that there must be a fifth, in order for quantum multispatiality to occur.

See what I'm getting at? My rough layman's understanding of what happens at the subatomic level has particles existing in potential, which of course implies that many realities are possible for the particle...which means that time is not a simple past-to-future affair, but a more complex phenomenon where potential realities must be accounted for. All of this needs 'room' in which to happen, which means a fifth dimension.

See? The phenomena associated with a singularity (or to a lesser degree, any massive object) distorts space/time in a direction which affects what we perceive as time. These distortions, nevertheless, must have 'room' into which they distort. This same 'extra-space/time' dimension would be the direction in which quantum level multispatial potentiality operates.

Of course, I am just a cook. I learned most of my science reading magazines and watching the Discovery Channel. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif You want fries with that?

Keyan Farlander
02-03-2001, 08:36 AM
Yes, please.

Deac
02-04-2001, 06:02 PM
My prayers go out too. Geologists and scientists say that if the earth were not very active( no volcanoes or earthquakes) no life could have evolved. But that does not make it better.