PDA

View Full Version : Influence Mechanics


leviticusd
05-23-2006, 03:51 PM
Hello,

I just got a couple questions that I've been searching for an answer too and can't find. How does the mechanic for deciding the light/dark of the npc jedi work?

The real trick I've noticed is trying to get Bao-dur dark, the Handmaiden light, mira in the party, and my character mostly dark (though I'm not worried about becoming completely dark, just dark enough to eventually unlock the sith prestige classes (which is 75% dark right?)

So, I've been trying to figure out the best way to do it using Achilles' influence charts, and I think I can do Bao-dur if I play citidel station dark, build influence with light side answers on Telos, and if I make sure I stay sort of dark at first on Nar Shadaa, I can do the Rutum triple influence score to get enough to train him.

Would that work? When does the "decision" to be light or dark come? What the PC alignment is when you gain/lose enough influence? Or the PC alignment when you actually do the final training?

Just a little unsure how it works.

Thanks.

Arátoeldar
05-23-2006, 04:08 PM
Welcome to the forums leviticusd.

If you are dark the only way I know to get Mira is to use the Mira/Hanharr choice mod.
http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/12365.html

If you want to get Bao-dur dark then you will have to be light with him.

If you want to get Brianna/Handmaiden light then you will have to be dark with her.

leviticusd
05-23-2006, 04:15 PM
Thanks for the welcome!

Well, I think I can do it without the mod. I found a post that mentions as long as you are neutral/light when you hit the cut scene that you get when entering the docks it will lock in which character you get. I think I can keep my character's alignment nuetral enough to get Mira then delve into the dark later.

I'm just curious what the game mechanic is for making that light/dark choice on the others. I would think that it would depend on my alignment at the time you enter the final "unlock" with them (and if you have full influence or non-influence of course). I was just looking for confirmation on if that's how it works for that part.

Arátoeldar
05-23-2006, 04:24 PM
The more positive influence (above 50) you have with a character the more he/she will be the same alignment. The more negative influence (below 50) you have with a character the more he/she will be the opposite of your alignment. I hope this clears thing up. The exception is of a course Kreia.

leviticusd
05-23-2006, 04:33 PM
Thanks. I understand that, and I gues I'm not being clear. I think I found another post that helps me understand. I don't remember where I just read this, but I won't be able to train anyone unless my character is at least 75% light or dark. Is that correct?

So if this is the case, I can build the necessary influences while maintaining a grey character (for the purpose of gaining Mira), then once I have Mira scout me out on the Nar Shadaa docks, I can start going dark. When I get to 75% dark, I can engage in conversations with Bao-dur who I've built positive influence with (even though they were light side choices) and make him dark, and make the final fight with the Handmaiden, who I have built negative influence with, and make her light.

Anyone see a reason that wouldn't work?

Darth333
05-23-2006, 04:43 PM
Check Achilles influence guide: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=153012

It will probably answer all the questions you have regarding influence :)

It's also available on our website: http://www.starwarsknights.com/influence.php

leviticusd
05-23-2006, 05:30 PM
Yeah, I have the guide pretty much memorized. That's what I am using to try and plan out how to go about doing this. Unfortunately, in both his walkthroughs, he makes Bao-dur light and what I'm trying to do doesn't fit in very nicely with the assumptions he made in making the guide (though it's a very nice guide). I've been using the spreadsheets to plan out my actions to get what I want, but it doesn't explain how the decision to become light and dark relates to the player character's alignments.

I think the course of action I stated above will work, unless I'm missing something important.

Achilles
05-23-2006, 06:58 PM
The script that multiclasses each of your trainable NPCs is called makejedi.ncs. Luckily, the source code is available as well (makejedi.nss). All it does it is give your NPC a Jedi class.

The idea that there is a mechanism for determining Jedi alignment is a little bit of a red herring. As you know, the influence system itself determines an NPCs alignment based on your alignment and your influence with them.

The thing that I think you're looking for is a conditional script that is fired at the beginning of each character's "training" dialog node that checks for their alignment before deciding which dialog tree to show you.

Of course, I'm doing this all from memory and I haven't looked at the scripts or dialogs in months, so some of this info could be wrong, but if memory serves, this should put you on the right track.

As for making BD and Dark Jedi without making any LS choices, it isn't possible. If it were, he would have been DS in my walkthrough. Doesn't mean you can't make him a DS Jedi, just means you can't do it cleanly.

I hope this helps.

leviticusd
05-23-2006, 07:48 PM
Thanks Achilles. That's what I thought would happen. Excellent guide, btw and I hope that you don't take my comment as criticism. Your guide is definately the best and most logical way of doing things, and with the help of your excellent spreadsheet, it allows me to plan out the characters exactly how I want them. I just wanted to make sure I understood how the script works.

Thanks again!

Achilles
05-23-2006, 07:56 PM
I didn't take it as criticism at all. Glad you found it useful :)

mr_raider
05-24-2006, 01:29 PM
It should be theoretically possible to do what you want. I have already hit 75% DS on Telos and flipped back to full LS mastery before leaving Nar Shadaa (wanted a LS Sith Marauder). You can loose a lot of Influence with Bao-Dur with a few well chosen responses in the Atris Academy. Then just kill some people in the docks with him in your party and your good to go.

BTW, I did some testing earlier, and as soon as you get the Visas cut scene, you unlock your prestige class. Then you just have to be slightly below or above neutral to get the desired class.

Achilles
05-24-2006, 02:33 PM
If you lose influence with BD (or any NPC) then his alignment will be opposite yours. If you play LS and switch to DS, he'll multiclass DS and switch to LS and vice versa.

If the objective is to make BD a Dark Jedi while your PC is DS, then it can be done. It just means that you'll have to do some metagaming and make some LS dialog choices to gain influence with him.

Also, requirement for Visas cutscene: alignment of <=25 or >=75.
Requirement for PrC: alignment of <=25 or >=75 and level 15 (or higher).
The two are not related to one another, they just happen to share a prerequisite.

mr_raider
05-24-2006, 02:40 PM
My mistake. I though the OP wanted a LS exile and a DS Bao-Dur.

Are you sure about the PRC alignment requirement? I have been able to get the PRC even though my alignment was pretty close to neutral. I just made it to Visas cut scene, and then came back towards the middle by level 15.

Achilles
05-24-2006, 02:44 PM
If memory serves, the conditional script is tied directly to the dialog node that initates the PrC conversation. I haven't looked at it in some time, but it makes sense that it would look for the PC's current alignment rather than a global that would indicate whether one of those thresholds had been crossed. Doesn't mean it isn't possible though *shrugs*

EDIT: But yes, it's common knowledge that those are the requirements. Whether or not there's a bug that allows you to gain your PrC with 26-74 alignment after getting 25 or 75 is the question at hand.

leviticusd
05-24-2006, 03:30 PM
Interesting points. Honestly, I don't really care if the exile is light or dark (I'll go whichever way is easier, I just want to make sure Bao-dur is dark and Mira is in the group). I'll take a look at what you suggested and see if that is any easier.

One last question. To train one of your NPC characters, do you have to be >75 or <25? or can you train while you are in the 26-74 range?

leviticusd
05-24-2006, 04:48 PM
Another question to go with the last one. A secondary goal is to make Atton dark also. It seems that by building influence on the harbringer and doing some "psychotic" acts with Atton, I should have enough influence to get Atton dark also when I first get to Nar Shaddaa.

I know I need the cut scene with the Twi'leks before I can train him. In Achilles' guide he states that once you leave the refugee camp, the red eclipse will take over the Ebon Hawk. In the Gamebanshee walkthrough, they say it depends also on your noteriety with the exhange. My question is, if I can avoid the noteriety and go right down there and get the scene without doing anything else, can I leave without triggering the Red Eclipse attack? If I can, then I can go back to the Ebon Hawk and have alot of the conversations with Kria, T3, and Visas (If I can get her by then) to get a lot of light side points so I can trigger Mira instead of Hanharr when I go to the docks.

mr_raider
05-24-2006, 05:19 PM
Interesting points. Honestly, I don't really care if the exile is light or dark (I'll go whichever way is easier, I just want to make sure Bao-dur is dark and Mira is in the group). I'll take a look at what you suggested and see if that is any easier.

One last question. To train one of your NPC characters, do you have to be >75 or <25? or can you train while you are in the 26-74 range?

If that is your objective, it's easier to be LS and piss off Bao Dur. This allows you to stay relatively consistently LS with some DS shifts. To accomplish the opposite (DS exile, DS Bao-Dur, + Mira) it becomes very messy. You need to gain influence with B-D (LS shifts), be LS when you hit the docks in NAr Shadaa, then quickly swing towards DS by your final planet and return to Dantooine. You will also have to suck up LS shifts to influence Mira. Even if you do Nar Shadaa first, I don't know if there are enough DS shifts to get you to mastery. I guess it can be done if you hold off on several quests (psychotic killings, etc...) until after Mira joins your party.

To answer your second question, your alignment is irrelevant. To train party members, you need high or low influence with them. I always forget the thresholds for Bao-Dur and Mira, but I believe it's 10/90. Their alignment will be determined automatically by influence and your alignment.

Arátoeldar
05-24-2006, 06:35 PM
To answer your second question, your alignment is irrelevant. To train party members, you need high or low influence with them. I always forget the thresholds for Bao-Dur and Mira, but I believe it's 10/90. Their alignment will be determined automatically by influence and your alignment.

To convert your NPCs to Jedi you must be 15 level

For the first level of training you must be X level.
For the second level of training you must be Y level.
For the third level of training you must be Z level.

To have your NPC Padawan make their own lightsaber the level varies. (I am not sut if the is the USM mod or the game itself)

DarthSaboteur
05-24-2006, 06:56 PM
That's the USM mod, all you need in an un-modded game is 90+ influence and whatever details that're needed, and then you can Jedify them.

mr_raider
05-24-2006, 09:40 PM
Also less than 10 influence will also work. For Handmaiden, you need to be level 18 to initiate the 3rd duel. For Atton, there is a plot specific event that must be triggered Nar Shadaa.

Achilles
05-25-2006, 02:06 AM
And you have to take Mira to Nar Shaddaa to train her. Only Disciple and BD are truely low maintenance.

As for Mira, just hit up Nar Shaddaa first. There are ample opportunities to gain DS mastery throughout the game.