PDA

View Full Version : Make lightsabers valuable tools, things of pride!


Maxstate
06-06-2006, 05:39 PM
They feel so.. so.. underrated right now. Make people choose, I mean, you cant have it all. OJP isn't a total conversion, but having gun vs saber battles, force vs gubattlesn, force vs saber battles where everyone has their own specialization would make it much more fun.

I believe the styles have their share of power changes, maybe with some added feat tweaks the idea of having trained in a style and having become proficient at it will actually be satisfying!

As I was saying I think that Hocks explained how all the styles have different dp damage rates. Small differences but worthwhile. I was thinking of adding even more "starwars" to it and giving the current styles particular "edges".
You know the drill. Not in the sense that it would make one style BETTER than the other, but simply to spark customization and specialization.
Ill take for example Tavions style which could be identified with Dooku's Makashi, what IF, and I say WHAT IF, you were to give it an edge over saber wielders somehow? Not as much to make it overpowered and not in the sense of more dp damage, but just make it have a small bonus when dueling a saber wielder. Examples could be:
-Only style with desperation DP gain 008 style, when its red and you.. hmm.. ATTACK PARRY correctly you can get a small amount of your dp back.
-No extra dp penalties when you get back whacked.

Those arent too farfetched and I figure they wouldnt take THAT much time to code in right Ace?
If we ever get to adding the dual style with 1 saber, I could go ahead and say it would be a version of Ataru. Now if you were to somehow (discussed later on) specialise in it, you could get to use force speed at half cost! (thinking of the BF2 Force Sprint Speed thing)

Now for some q&A:

-Why make people choose? Why not just keep it this way?
A: Because this doesnt feel right, it doest feel right that every jedi has access to every style. It doesnt feel right to know you can beat your enemy with every style, using the same strategy.

-So how are you suggesting people choose their specialization?
I've had 2 theories, you could add 7 more buttons on the force selection screen with one for each style and a description of the added bonuses.
Each would cost a number of points, and you would have to allocate points from force powers to select a maximum of 3 styles to call your own .( I would gladly give up Push, pull and grip to get saber more saber styles). Saber attack and saber defense would govern the amount of styles you could take.
1 def and 1 attack = 1 style etc. etc.

The other theory was to select them for free at the profile screen somewhere and keep all the current styles but add the effects to them. I Dont like this one because it goes against my wishes of customization.

-There are 7 forms, we only have 5 styles, double u tee-eff?
A:
Yellow = NIman/Shii-cho
Tavion = Makashi
Blue = soresu
One handed dual style = ataru
Red = Djem-So
One handed staff style = Shien
Desann = Juyo/Vaapad

Please consider this, or at least a version of this :)

ensiform
06-06-2006, 06:18 PM
no thx guns ftw :twogun:

UDM
06-06-2006, 10:06 PM
I always thought it should be in this order

Blue - Soresu
Yellow - Shien / Niman / Shii-Cho (lol makes yellow the ultimate dumping ground)
Red - Djem-So (Aggressive variation of Shien)
Purple - Vaapad / Ataru (closest I can match for Ataru is purple)
Aqua - Makashi
Dual sabers - Niman / Jar-Kai
Staff - Juyo

I based the stuff above on this (http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/star_wars_kotor_ii_duel.txt) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat). I've watched 2 of the 3 prequels before, but I don't have a deep impression of them, so I've kind of forgotten what some of the styles like Makashi actually look like

Actually, I couldn't find a suitable slot for Makashi in any of the colours. Aqua is the closest I could find to match the form's description on wikipedia. Otherwise, most of my experiences with aqua in-game (strong defence, more or less a weak attack) just doesn't seem to match Makashi

JRHockney*
06-07-2006, 04:24 AM
I've never been opposed to making styles different, although, in the past I've suggested more individual customization or each style that can be created by the player.

Basically, there would be another saber menu, where you could chose the maybe three out of seven styles you wanted and then you could add different characteristics from another menu to each style such as: more attack, more defense, more speed, more range, quicker slow bounce, higher heavy bounce probability, smaller desperation parry, stronger kick, another style, certain special moves, etc. You would get a certain number of points to put towards the styles you choose or maybe each style individually. Some characteristics would cost more than others and some styles couldnt get certain characteristics.

While I think this should be the ultimate goal for OJP saber customization, this will take a while to implement and I'd be fine with any other ideas for customization that would be fairly easy to code until then. Maxstates ideras seem fairly easy.

Maxstate
06-07-2006, 04:38 AM
I always thought it should be in this order

Blue - Soresu
Yellow - Shien / Niman / Shii-Cho (lol makes yellow the ultimate dumping ground)
Red - Djem-So (Aggressive variation of Shien)
Purple - Vaapad / Ataru (closest I can match for Ataru is purple)
Aqua - Makashi
Dual sabers - Niman / Jar-Kai
Staff - Juyo

I based the stuff above on this (http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/star_wars_kotor_ii_duel.txt) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat). I've watched 2 of the 3 prequels before, but I don't have a deep impression of them, so I've kind of forgotten what some of the styles like Makashi actually look like

Actually, I couldn't find a suitable slot for Makashi in any of the colours. Aqua is the closest I could find to match the form's description on wikipedia. Otherwise, most of my experiences with aqua in-game (strong defence, more or less a weak attack) just doesn't seem to match Makashi

Shien incorporates holding your saber in your backhand, a la one handed staff style. Vaapad is Mace Windu's personal style, it doesnt seem realistic to be using someone's own variation on a style. And Maul was the only person ever trained in using staff Juyo, and he got beaten by an Ataru Padawan ;)
Speaking of Ataru, I hope everyone understood WHAT I meant with the one handed dual style? Start a solo game, get dual sabers, now throw one away and voila. Only problem is that its in the left hand.

And Hocks, havent regretted any of your ideas thus far, lets try these simple ones first and then we'll move on to yours! (IF IF IF :p)

Darth Cariss
06-07-2006, 05:04 AM
Interesting ideas. I do think it would be good to make the Saber styles more different from eachother. Each one should have advantages and disadvantages.

I also think saberists should never be able to use Guns (except maybe a blaster pistol like in FM3). However I do think Gunners should be seperate from Jedi.

What can I say? I'm a Movie Battles fan. I don't want Guns to be a secondary weapon to the Lightsabers. I want guns to an alternative to the Lightsaber.

Maxstate
06-07-2006, 05:10 AM
Interesting ideas. I do think it would be good to make the Saber styles more different from eachother. Each one should have advantages and disadvantages.

I also think saberists should never be able to use Guns (except maybe a blaster pistol like in FM3). However I do think Gunners should be seperate from Jedi.

What can I say? I'm a Movie Battles fan. I don't want Guns to be a secondary weapon to the Lightsabers. I want guns to an alternative to the Lightsaber.

I agree completely, I actually had a big bit about guns but removed it as to let the OJP community see how they like this idea first. Im all in for guns becoming a main weapon, I also think that in a couple of versions we should start thinking of classes. Not in the way MB has them (unless thats what you guys want), but I was thinking of borrowing the siege layout and changing it a bit and still (like in MB) leaving room for customization. Jedi, lightsabers, force powers, its taken too much for granted.

Darth Cariss
06-07-2006, 05:23 AM
I'm all for customization, but at the same time I love balance.

I think MB2's Point System is genious, and would be awesome in OJP. I know it's the "Open Jedi Project" and all, but Blasters are a huge part of Star Wars just as much as Lightsabers are. I'd love to see Guns get more attention (like in MB2).

UDM
06-07-2006, 10:58 AM
Thing is, guns will always be less superior to lightsabers. That's why Vader didn't get owned by Han

MB2's system is good though. Even a soldier can beat a jedi given the right stats (2 lives, some tactics)

Maxstate
06-07-2006, 02:20 PM
Thing is, guns will always be less superior to lightsabers. That's why Vader didn't get owned by Han

MB2's system is good though. Even a soldier can beat a jedi given the right stats (2 lives, some tactics)

MB is too gunner-oriented, as you said, they will always be inferior to lightsabers. I never liked how MBII portrayed Jedi and Sith, sure they cant kill off an army but I've never seen them run from groups of simple blaster wielding foes. And dont you give me that EP1 and EP3 droideka bull****, they couldve easily taken them if it werent for the fact that getting pinned down by a droideka is strategically dangerous and very time consuming. It takes time to get close enough to a deka or to penetrate its shield with its own blasterfire, wasting that time could've given the droids an advantage; they couldve called for backup.

At this point gunner-fanboys would mention Jango and Boba, guys, Obi could also've just pulled Jango's guns from him remember?

Sorry for the rant, lets get back ontopic.

And dont get me wrong, Im all in for gunners and balance, but not in MB's sense.

JRHockney*
06-07-2006, 05:52 PM
Yeah, Jedi and sith will probably always be tougher than individual gunners, because its just not movie realistic otherwise. It should take a small army to take out a jedi which is why I look forward to whenever Razor might be able to start working on creating NPC soldiers that follow their commander for a soldier class and only use little guns (blaster, E-11 etc.). I'm sure that razor could do a much better job of it than FM3 did. Maybe make them able to follow orders and make alt fire the deflaut when they use E-11.

There could probably a few classes that are more equal to jedi by virtue of big weapons (sort of like a hero or bounty hunter class) or being able to fly (like mando). But any other gunner class will most likely be punching bags for a jedi or sith.

I just had an idea: Maybe gunners could earn a different number of points than a jedi. Maybe in FFA, lowest level gunners earn 3 points for killing a jedi, and the next level up earns 2 points while jedis can only earn one point and maybe two for killing each other. At least then the score system would be more balanced.

razorace
06-08-2006, 01:28 PM
I just had an idea: Maybe gunners could earn a different number of points than a jedi. Maybe in FFA, lowest level gunners earn 3 points for killing a jedi, and the next level up earns 2 points while jedis can only earn one point and maybe two for killing each other. At least then the score system would be more balanced.
Agreed. I think a score bias is the best way to deal with the inherent inbalance in fair of the jedi.

Maxstate
06-08-2006, 01:39 PM
Oh and about the order thing, base already has Npcattack, npcfollow and npcdefend I believe, they just dont work lol.

UDM
06-08-2006, 02:42 PM
Take your time to do it razor. I know what a bitch coding is. We can wait

Uhh...right folks? ;)

Maxstate
06-08-2006, 02:46 PM
Damn straight beeotch!

Maxstate
06-29-2006, 09:32 AM
PICS PICS PICS:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/upclosebehindsaber.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0146.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0155.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0116.jpg

Compatible with RGB :D
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0118.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0128.jpg

Ill get more ASAP but its hard finding time as it is ;).
Dont forget to zoom the pics.

tristamus
06-29-2006, 12:39 PM
Ya guys definitly need to read up on this stuff for the lightsaber poses and whatnot, its the best, most well known source...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat

razorace
06-29-2006, 02:50 PM
I don't beleive in the whole "seven forms" thing. I feel that it's a post-movies recon used to poorly explain onscreen action. It's pretty obvious that every jedi has a unique style, trying to bottleneck them into seven specific forms is silly.

Maxstate
06-29-2006, 03:49 PM
I don't beleive in the whole "seven forms" thing. I feel that it's a post-movies recon used to poorly explain onscreen action. It's pretty obvious that every jedi has a unique style, trying to bottleneck them into seven specific forms is silly.

If thats how you see it, Im cool with that. But the most universally used theory is that a jedi chooses a "form" and creates his own "style" for it. Just like Kyle took Soresu, Djem So and Niman and worked out his own set of very simple techniques for it.

But you do still like the "adding bonuses to styles" thing right? :)

razorace
06-29-2006, 08:20 PM
I'd be open to that if/when we get to the point of doing a class/skills system.

tristamus
06-29-2006, 09:38 PM
I can see how that may be difficult. Adding a whole new class system would definitly be taxing, and take alot of time to develop. Although, DO think of the incredible outcome that could be had in the scenario you make the classes!

UDM
06-30-2006, 09:23 AM
I think I'll use this thread to comment on your new saber anims

Like I've told you on MSN: awesome work there! Everything's beautiful

Still, hope my minor nitpick can be fixed or something. It was so good that well...I feel bad if I don't nitpick :D

Maxstate
06-30-2006, 09:25 AM
I think I'll use this thread to comment on your new saber anims

Like I've told you on MSN: awesome work there! Everything's beautiful

Still, hope my minor nitpick can be fixed or something. It was so good that well...I feel bad if I don't nitpick :D
ASAP!

JRHockney*
06-30-2006, 10:07 PM
I just had an idea: Maybe gunners could earn a different number of points than a jedi. Maybe in FFA, lowest level gunners earn 3 points for killing a jedi, and the next level up earns 2 points while jedis can only earn one point and maybe two for killing each other. At least then the score system would be more balanced.

Agreed. I think a score bias is the best way to deal with the inherent inbalance in fair of the jedi.

I just remembered this as a comment and I think this should be added into the next version as well. Since we dont have classes, maybe we should consider the blaster, E-11, disruptor, and crossbow as lower level weapons (3 points a kill) and the rest as upperlevel (2 points).

But I must say I still think the regular blasters are waaayy too useless against jedi when compared to explosives. I'm mean come on, gunners have enough trouble being COMPLETELY vulnerable to forcepower as it is.

Can we maybe do something similar to MB2 where the faster you move, the more DP damage you get from blasters? I mean, It should still take many shots to kill a jedi even when hes running in OJP, but a gunner would be lucky to hit a running jedi enough times to do significant damage especailly if the jedi is zig zaging at all. he's what I suggest for this:

1. if the jedi is standing still, he blocks and loses force at the rate he does now against a blaster. Only a small army has any chance at to stop a standing jedi.

2. for Jedi Walking, maybe 1 and 1/2 to double DP damage for hits.

3. for jedi running, maybe double or triple damage.

4. shots from behind double whatever hit level its at

I mean come on, this is movie realistic. The jedis in the movies didnt seem nearly as good at deflection while moving.

Tokakeke
06-30-2006, 11:18 PM
Using stances to represent forms of lightsaber combat is a bad idea, simply because nobody in the movies used these stances. They used some moves of each, however. I always felt purple and cyan were extremely close to Windu and Palpatine's styles.

What I'd like to see is a force menu that let you buy moves from each stance. For example, I could buy the DFA or overhead flip (red and yellow, jump + attack + forward), but not both. Other moves would be the same. You could choose a very unpredictable Vaapad style with different looking swings by using a strong forward attack (as with the red) but one handed side swings (like cyan/blue)

That would be sweet.

UDM
06-30-2006, 11:34 PM
Then again, I hardly use DFAs in OJP. To me, they're only there for show, but the pros might disagree ;)

Tokakeke
07-02-2006, 01:21 AM
It was just an example :p

All moves would be buyable. Even just the basic ones. I realize this might cause issues with the idle animations, but if needed the chosen stance could transition to the idle animation for the move's stance, then go into the move..

Knowing nothing about animation, dunno, really.

JRHockney*
07-02-2006, 01:32 AM
It was just an example :p

All moves would be buyable. Even just the basic ones. I realize this might cause issues with the idle animations, but if needed the chosen stance could transition to the idle animation for the move's stance, then go into the move..

Knowing nothing about animation, dunno, really.

I'd love to see buyable moves. I've suggested this in the past, but we are still a long ways from doing that.

Maxstate
07-06-2006, 06:36 AM
*Takes a deep breath*

Using stances to represent forms of lightsaber combat is a bad idea, simply because nobody in the movies used these stances.

Yes, they did. Every jedi has a different fighting style based upon the 7 forms. Every jedi is trained in Shii Cho first, which is like the simplest of simple combination of moves and the simplest mentality one can learn. Later on a jedi chooses a style that best resembles his inner-self, or the style that his mentor learned before him. For example, in Ep1 Obi-wan got taught the agressive, acrobatic form Ataru from Qui-Gon. You could see him sweeping, flipping and using the force to empower and speedup his attacks a lot.
Later on he switched to his variant of Soresu due to personal issues, and you could tell the difference. If you dont believe me, look at the Obi-Grievous fight again.


They used some moves of each, however. I always felt purple and cyan were extremely close to Windu and Palpatine's styles.

I dont think you've ever tried any sports involving sword combat eh?
Look at the simple way someone like Kit Fisto fights, then compare it to the late Obi held back defensive style. A personal style is based on a form, no jedi style is the same ofcourse and a jedi can cross styles and forms to suit his personal fighting style but the fact remains that the 7 forms were used.


What I'd like to see is a force menu that let you buy moves from each stance. For example, I could buy the DFA or overhead flip (red and yellow, jump + attack + forward), but not both. Other moves would be the same. You could choose a very unpredictable Vaapad style with different looking swings by using a strong forward attack (as with the red) but one handed side swings (like cyan/blue)
Get 'a codin' then. I dont want to attack you personally but it seems like you just drop by here and express ideas without knowing the full extent of progress here in the community. We already have new animations that are almost exactly true to the nature of the seven forms, and there is also a style that is exactly like the one you described. But, the most important thing you need to know -something I told the MB community as well- is that its about the mentality; the mindset, the way of thinking and not the animation set.

Sure, the slashes you make, the moves you execute are important but if you dont have it here *points to head and heart*, you wont be able to do **** here *points to saber/mouse*
;)

That would be sweet.
I agree, but its unneccessary. I can customize animations for you when I get back if you want, but you can try the ones we have now first.

Vruki Salet
07-06-2006, 12:23 PM
So maxstate are your new anims exclusively for the use of ojp enhanced?

JRHockney*
07-06-2006, 03:05 PM
So maxstate are your new anims exclusively for the use of ojp enhanced?

I think they are because the anims include tavion and desann styles (unless OJP basic has those too). I suppose he could make them work for basic too, but he has several things he's still working on at the moment. Ask him again when he gets back. I'd also recommend moviestances_2.0 at jk2files as a great replacement.

Maxstate
07-07-2006, 09:51 AM
I think they are because the anims include tavion and desann styles (unless OJP basic has those too). I suppose he could make them work for basic too, but he has several things he's still working on at the moment. Ask him again when he gets back. I'd also recommend moviestances_2.0 at jk2files as a great replacement.

Well since Razor opposes 3rd party content I was thinking of just making some sort of community add-on pack or something. The anims work with base, I guess the red, blue, staff and dual ones will work as well but they dont have a lot of slash changes. First and foremost (Ill post it here not to forget) I need to :
-Fix a red slash for UDM
-Get back those deflect anims
-Somehow get back the work I did for my latest anim.cfg, which I lost after my reformat :smash:

razorace
07-07-2006, 03:03 PM
Opposes 3rd party content?

Tokakeke
07-12-2006, 03:09 AM
Yes, they did. Every jedi has a different fighting style based upon the 7 forms. Every jedi is trained in Shii Cho first, which is like the simplest of simple combination of moves and the simplest mentality one can learn. Later on a jedi chooses a style that best resembles his inner-self, or the style that his mentor learned before him. For example, in Ep1 Obi-wan got taught the agressive, acrobatic form Ataru from Qui-Gon. You could see him sweeping, flipping and using the force to empower and speedup his attacks a lot.
Later on he switched to his variant of Soresu due to personal issues, and you could tell the difference. If you dont believe me, look at the Obi-Grievous fight again.I dont think you've ever tried any sports involving sword combat eh? Look at the simple way someone like Kit Fisto fights, then compare it to the late Obi held back defensive style. A personal style is based on a form, no jedi style is the same ofcourse and a jedi can cross styles and forms to suit his personal fighting style but the fact remains that the 7 forms were used.


What the hell? Did you even read my post? I said that the Jedi don't use "blue, yellow, red" stances, not that they don't use forms as you described.



Get 'a codin' then. I dont want to attack you personally but it seems like you just drop by here and express ideas without knowing the full extent of progress here in the community. We already have new animations that are almost exactly true to the nature of the seven forms, and there is also a style that is exactly like the one you described.



Well, I'm sorry for making suggestions. God forbid I actually express ideas and opinions on this forum without having the level of C coding experience to actually implement them! Tell ya what. We should just take it one step further, and you guys can ban anyone who makes a suggestion, on sight, unless they successfully implement it.At the time, there was no threads saying "there are forms animated that are close to these styles", and even if they were, you have the nerve to attack me because I haven't been here for a while? Then pretend to be cordial while you blatantly tell me to GTFO? That's bull****.


But, the most important thing you need to know -something I told the MB community as well- is that its about the mentality; the mindset, the way of thinking and not the animation set. Sure, the slashes you make, the moves you execute are important but if you dont have it here *points to head and heart*, you wont be able to do **** here *points to saber/mouse*
;)



Um, what does this have to do with animations/lightsaber styles?


My overriding point is that nobody in the movies used exclusively one stance, or even anything close to them - therefore it's silly to try to compare them to forms. Instead, they used a mix of moves from each as well as a large amount of moves not represented in JKA. This is why I suggested a buyable move scenario where a player could buy moves from each stance in order to create their own unique style, rather than simply assigning forms to stances and keeping the red, yellow, blue "this does more damage than this and also it's slower lawls" intact. I'm sorry if this pisses you off or something. -_-

JRHockney*
07-12-2006, 04:42 AM
Alright guys, I'm sensing an old MB2 rivalry or something along those lines. I would prefer if all rivalries and such were put aside while on these forums so lets kill this thing before it becomes a vindictive argument. Or just discuss it without any vain remarks if possible.

Max, Toka is plenty welcome to post ideas whether their good ideas, out of the loop, or we now the answer already. Heck, we let noobs do it all the time, so if anyone misses progress we've made, it doesnt disqualify them from posting.

Toka, try not to take it personally. Max has been making anim replacement mods for us for awhile so he's alittle more critical about animation ideas than most of us. You might remember Maxstate as TK Paddy from the MB2 forums so maybe that makes more sense with his comments or something.

Anyways, maybe I shouldnt have said anything, but its late and I'm not think clearly. :p Go about your business.

Vruki Salet
07-12-2006, 01:03 PM
I think they are because the anims include tavion and desann styles (unless OJP basic has those too).

Sorry what I meant to ask is, can anybody use his anims like for their own mod, or does he want them only to be used by razor ace & ojp as his exclusive content.


BTW I haven't seen any of them yet. Where can I find them?

JRHockney*
07-12-2006, 01:14 PM
Sorry what I meant to ask is, can anybody use his anims like for their own mod, or does he want them only to be used by razor ace & ojp as his exclusive content.

Hmm, I don't think so. He mostly just used the animations from the threatrics mod for FM3 with a few interesting substitutes. They are probably fair game to anyone who wants to use them. You can still get his permission if you want, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Vruki Salet
07-12-2006, 01:37 PM
What's the theatrics mod for forcemod? I'll look it up but if you can give me a quick link that's great.

____________


I just looked for it a & the pcgamemds.com site is broken atm. Does anyone have a copy of this theatrics mod he can give me?

UDM
07-12-2006, 01:45 PM
I didn't know theatrics was for FM3

In any case, it can be found on pcgamemods. I'd give you the link, but pcgamemods seems to be down atm...

You can check out other saber anims mods, and stick the necessary files into ojp_animations.pk3. Just remember to back it up. There's a good one, I think it's called chaos force, it's got some interesting animations. Most don't work with purple and aqua though

razorace
07-12-2006, 03:50 PM
I don't recommend people changing the internal stuff inside .pk3s. It can cause massive problems if you're trying to play or run pure servers. The best way to do it is to make a new .pk3 with a name that is in lower alphabetically order than the .pk3 you're trying to replace.

For example, OJP_enhanceddlls_0.0.9c.pk3's files would be overridden by OJP_enhanceddlls_0.0.9g.pk3's files.

RendarQueloon
07-13-2006, 08:27 PM
Maybe put in simple bonuses for purchasing each saber type. But make the cost worth the bonus

Yellow = Shii-cho (No cost, No Bonus)
Tavion = Makashi (Greater Chance at causing mishaps (mostly the disarm mishap)
Blue = soresu (less DP loss for successful parries, less force drain for deflecting)
One handed dual style = ataru (More DP damage if attack hits while in air)
Red = Djem-So (Greater DP dmg for all hits that are not successfully blocked)
One handed staff style = Niman (Consular form... so.. maybe faster force regen)
Desann = Juyo/Vaapad (some type of bonus given to fake attacks, maybe more DP dmg to fake attacks that are not successfully parried)

Just a few thoughts

JRHockney*
07-13-2006, 10:32 PM
Maybe put in simple bonuses for purchasing each saber type. But make the cost worth the bonus

Yellow = Shii-cho (No cost, No Bonus)
Tavion = Makashi (Greater Chance at causing mishaps (mostly the disarm mishap)
Blue = soresu (less DP loss for successful parries, less force drain for deflecting)
One handed dual style = ataru (More DP damage if attack hits while in air)
Red = Djem-So (Greater DP dmg for all hits that are not successfully blocked)
One handed staff style = Niman (Consular form... so.. maybe faster force regen)
Desann = Juyo/Vaapad (some type of bonus given to fake attacks, maybe more DP dmg to fake attacks that are not successfully parried)

Just a few thoughts

Who are you and how do you know our system so well!!! LOL

These arent bad ideas and I wouldnt be opposed to such a setup; however, razors never been a big fan of seven forms ideas or giving certain styles magical abilities. These are fairly subtle though. We'll have to see what he says.

RendarQueloon
07-14-2006, 03:59 AM
Ive been playing OJP Enhanced for awhile and visit the forums often, just never felt the need to post untill now.

Does anyone have a link to the saber animations Maxstate made? I would love to see those.

UDM
07-14-2006, 04:04 AM
Yeah personally, I'm also against the whole idea of giving bonuses and such. Right now, the styles have their advantages and disadvantages, and I think they will suffice. For example, blue reduces dp loss when blocking. Red takes in more DP, but deals more too

But anyway, to relate styles, I agree for the most part, but...

Yellow - Shii-Cho
Aqua (tavion) - Makashi
Blue - Soresu
One-handed dual saber - Niman (which according to Wikipedia, is the style which causes the user to get 0wned by his enemy. Also, Niman is the stepping stone to Jar-Kai, which is dual saber form)
Red - Djem-so
Purple - Ataru. According to Wikipedia, Ataru needs open spaces to fight, uses wide slashes etc...that all fits Purple more than it does for the other stances. Besides, Purple is almost a mix of all the stances
Staff - Juyo/Vaapad. Wikipedia says it all
Two sabers - Jar'Kai (not in the 7 forms)

Wiki link here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat

I've bolded the parts that I feel are more suitable. So there you have it! I guess no more arguments to it :D

razorace
07-14-2006, 06:48 PM
These arent bad ideas and I wouldnt be opposed to such a setup; however, razors never been a big fan of seven forms ideas or giving certain styles magical abilities. These are fairly subtle though. We'll have to see what he says.
Right, I'm definitely not a fan of the seven forms theory.

As for the ideas, I think the powers need to be related to the practical effects of the style. Realistically, your ability to regenerate the Force probably isn't going to be affected by which style you're using at the moment. That being said, there are some things that could be practical, like maybe purple does more DP damage, but also results in more mishap increases because the style is more agressive than normal.

RendarQueloon
07-14-2006, 06:57 PM
Well the theory behind the more force regen for Niman stance is that its the consular stance. Its the stance that diplomats and more force orientated jedi learned because it was quick and simple and allowed them to focus more on their connection to the force, as oppossed to saber fighting.

In the Star Wars D20 RPG book the exact bonus for those using Niman Stance is +2 diplomacy, +1 on all force rolls.

So I thought it was fitting

UDM
07-14-2006, 08:07 PM
I don't know, but if you ask me, holding a staff in front of me is going to make my enemy **** his pants than sit down and talk

I think for fictional purposes, it's fun to discuss about this anyway :p. After all, OJP is closer to movie forms than any other mods. Anyway, reason why I suggested having Niman as the one handed dual style is because...well you lost your saber, and you're wielding with your left hand. That makes you weaker, since technically all the characters in game are right handed. Then, this means that you're more in the mood for diplomacy. You're less aggressive too. And besides, it is the stepping stone to Jar'Kai after all. In terms of diplomacy and all that other stuff, I think the other stances don't seem as fitting. Staff especially ;)

By the way Razor, is it possible to change stances when using dual sabers, but instead of getting blue stance, we get the one saber dual stance? I think it's more fitting, and it looks cooler too. Not that I roleplay, but it would be sweet and nastier than having gay blue all the time

Vruki Salet
07-14-2006, 08:37 PM
<rant>
Niman can't be the foundation of dual saber use. I don't care what wiki/wookiepedia or the star wars RPG or whoever says. Niman was only supposed to be developed in the 1000 years of peace in the Republic since the Ruusan Reformation, when Jedi became less martial and more diplomatic, political and police-like. Yet duals were routinely used way before then like in KOTOR days. Niman is a modern jedi (fictionally speaking o'course :p, prequel-era) style for modern jedi needs. Duals were around in the olden days and learned by jedi who were at war. Yet more commonly it seems.

I think it makes much more sense that most or all the forms could have duals variants, just like a staff could be used to accomplish the techniques and intentions of each form in its own way.
</rant>

UDM
07-14-2006, 11:00 PM
Still, Niman isn't as useful as the other stances in multiplayer because it's a diplomat's stance. Therefore, the best call would still have to go to dual one handed stance :)

Vruki Salet
07-15-2006, 12:35 AM
No the best call is to skip it. ;) It's not a form for people who want to battle it out with lightsabers - it's a stance for people who would rather play backgammon, the sims or "galactic republic tycoon" or some such.

Greiver
07-15-2006, 03:25 AM
it would be nice if the was more of a difference in the animations for the different styles so it would be easyer to tell what style your enemy is using

UDM
07-15-2006, 05:23 AM
Maxstate has created some new animations for the stances, most notably Aqua. I really like his aqua anims because they really reflect Makashi the way it should be (assuming you subscribe to the whole 7 forms idea). Anyhow, the only stances where you can't really tell the different apart, as they are right now, are Red and Yellow. If Yellow is to be a beginner's stance, then I think it should have the "spinning" move removed ie. when you press A/D attack -> followed by AS/AD attack

However, if anything, I don't think it's really necessary :P, just a thought

RendarQueloon
07-15-2006, 12:14 PM
Does anyone have a download link to maxstates animations?

UDM
07-15-2006, 01:50 PM
Yeah I do, but I'm not sure if he's ok with it, what with it being a 3rd party mod and all. I'll have to see what he says when he's online

Vruki Salet
07-15-2006, 03:42 PM
I'd like it too if I may.

Maxstate
07-15-2006, 05:31 PM
I r teh agree lolzzllol.

Im back (again) lol!

Maxstate
08-17-2006, 05:47 AM
Not to dig up even older threads, I'm going to use this one.

May I present to you all:

Maxstate's sabers and movie trails V1.0.

I can't believe I started working on these before the vacations started!
But finally they're done. Some notes though:
-The tip is fixed altough now it's a mixture of pointy and round.
-The tip is also blurred just a slight tad like the movies.
-I fixed the "blade coming out of the hilt" problem for most of the hilts, though, as keshire has told me this is more of a model problem.
-These are RGB sabers, you can set up your own colour from ingame.

It's why I recommend Revan Dark's Hilts (http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Revan_Dark_Star_Wars_Hilts;46744), these hilts look perfect when combined with my sabers. You can see the blade come out of ALL the hilts which is truly astounding, and shows that Revan had a good eye for these things.

Screenshots you ask? OFCOURSE!

-Blue
Hilt shot: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0316.jpg
Static shots:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0320.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0317.jpg
Action/trail shots:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0319.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0309.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0318.jpg

Red:
Static:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0326.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0331.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0328.jpg
Action:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0332.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0327.jpg

Green:
Static:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0335.jpg
Action:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0334.jpg

Yellaaaawwrrrrr:
Static/action lol:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0341.jpg

Purple:
Static:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0322.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0323.jpg
Action/trail:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0325.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/New%20sabers/shot0324.jpg


:)

Bugs:
The trail might not look as if covering the length of the blade with certain Red attacks, but this is fixed. Noted it just incase someone would ask or see it in the screenies.

Installation:
I haven't made a PK3 yet for it, since I don't know if it'll work. You are free to do so ofcourse. I have stored the sabers into a zip file, you install them by doing the following:

Open up enhancedstuff009E with winrar or winzip, go into the GFX folder and continue to effects and then sabers. Now drag all the RGB files into that folder and say yes to any questions. That's it!
Be sure to backup your enhancedstuff in case you don't like them much :)

In case you want to try out the anims, I've added them in the .rar, they're installed so:

Open up your enhancedanims005 and just follow the humanoid folder untill you reach _humanoid in which you can see an animation.cfg, an animevents.cfg and a gla or Glm, don't remember. Anyway, just drag my animation.cfg into that folder and say yes to overwrites. That's it :)

I hope you enjoy these sabers and trails as much as I do, ofcourse they're nothing compared to the SFX sabers but this is the most I could do without using code.

I want to thank the following people for support and tips:
-UDM
-Hockney
-Vruki Salet
-Lathain Valtiel
-Ripley
-Plasma

I hope I'm not forgetting anyone hehe.

Here's the download link:
http://www.freefileupload.net/file.php?file=files/170806/1155803339/RGB+sabers.rar

I hope you enjoy them.



Edit: some of the static pics are actually action pics like green and red for example, I am sorry about this and didn't notice this when I was pasting the links. The sabers and trails also look much better ingame so don't be fooled by sh1tty jpeg quality!

Edit 2: I also now just noticed that the trails look alot like base trails in the screenies, I don't know why lol. Anyway you guys should really just try them and see them ingame, if you don't like them tell me and tell me why so I can improve next time. Since I made these from scratch I'm very proud of them so try not to hurt my feelings TOO bad :P

EDIT 3:
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/1839486/zzzzzzzzMaxState_s_trails_and_Sabers.pk3.html


Pk3 format, hope it works ;)))))

Heroine
08-17-2006, 06:03 AM
lololololz does luk niec lolol uber naic :ears1:

ohw 3 mawek batar: 4 mietur lung sabirs lol

Greiver
08-17-2006, 06:39 AM
i think a speak english or dont speak is kinda appropriate right about now

nice job Maxstate it looks really perty from the pics ill test it as soon as i get my pc back up and running

razorace
08-17-2006, 01:18 PM
I don't recommend that people alter the contents of the ojp packages. You'll get yourself in a massive amount of trouble. Instead, you should create a .pk3 that overrides the specific contents you want to replace in the OJP pk3s.

Maxstate
08-17-2006, 01:36 PM
I don't recommend that people alter the contents of the ojp packages. You'll get yourself in a massive amount of trouble. Instead, you should create a .pk3 that overrides the specific contents you want to replace in the OJP pk3s.

I did Ace, read my post all the way.

crail227
09-16-2006, 02:49 PM
could u post a new link for the anims? they dont seem to work