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View Full Version : Feedback on beta build 9 "D"...


Kyle Kelasheski
06-25-2006, 01:45 AM
After dinner on Friday, I found 30 min. to try out the latest build for the first time, and let me state that even for an offline match, it was VERY challenging and rewarding.

I was actually able to beat a bot by the seventh duel! lol In the release before this one, it was practically impossible for me to do so, and even though I may have delivered 3-4 downward stabs on my knocked down opponent.

All this being said, late Friday night I played for 20 min., and I discovered a major exploit I found in the "D" build. I'm just going to type it out right now before I get too tired and fall asleep at the keyboard...



I was in the blue stance for the entire duration of this easily repeatable exploit. All I did was constantly hold the primary attack button down, and keep the front of my avatar facing the enemy bot. Without exception, I dropped him in exactly this manner five times in a row.

Since I barely have time to breathe anymore, it's difficult for me to hop online and see how this offline exploit works online against human players, but I thought that I'd better mention it in any case.



Prior to my stumbling on this exploit, my assessment of the bot duels was extremely high. It's very tricky to parry well, and it takes a LOT of discipline to do it right, which is why I thoroughly enjoyed it.


Before I sign off, I'd like to list a couple of suggestions here. I'd consider making kick-downs more difficult to do, but that's only IF the downward stabs were replaced with a "sweeping of the floor" move with the lightsaber, or, at the very least, an overhead SWING at the knocked down opponent's body. The downward stab makes little sense to me, especially when one considers that the target is flat on his back, incapable of evading the attack. Perhaps there could be a progression of kicked down positions, such as the first time an opponent gets kicked down, he/she is capable of preventing a total kick down by propping an arm onto the floor, while the other hand is free to parry/block the player's follow up attack until the kicked down opponent is able to push his/her body back up with the arm that's in contact with the floor. Unless the recovered enemy is able to regenerate a sufficient pool of stamina, the next time he/she is kicked down that person WILL go ALL the way down, without being able to mount a defense. The attacker will then be able to use the floor sweeping saber attack to end the duel there.

Is there any way to truncate the fancy saber slashes that automatically occur after a saberlock has been broken? Currently, these automatic saber slashes tend to result in a lightsaber that passes harmlessly through each avatar's body, which is a bit strange to see and comprehend.

Oh man, it's SO late for me right now. Time for bed. Good night all!

Yours,

Kyle
June 25, 2006

:)

UDM
06-25-2006, 09:20 AM
I like the idea of being able to parry while on the floor. Have you seen the Ryan vs dorkman Star Wars dueling trailer on Youtube? In one scene, they start to fight each other while prone on the floor, very cool indeed

Anyway with regards to the exploit, I suspect that's because of "lightning strikes". From personal experience, it's possible to lose 4 bars of DP almost immediately due to lightning strikes. This occurs when you're too close to the opponent (I would call it more of a game limitation than a bug). I guess this is what happens:

1) Opponent hits you
2) You block, and the block actually registers as a saber hit
3) Therefore opponent blocks also, and this registers as another saber hit
4) And then it begins the whole cycle over again. This is why sometimes when the bots get too close, we lose our ability to attack where we want to

I don't know nuts about coding, so this is just my conjecture, but it seems to be the case to me so far. The only solution I know of to lightning strikes is to keep a good distance of about .8m away from the enemy, but there seems to be no way to actually force this ingame yet. It's all voluntary so far

By the way, I noticed you mod for OFP too. Good on you bud! OFP = best tactical game ever :king1:

-edit-

I went to play t3_rift, and there was this Reborn Twin who used blue and stood there swinging up and down. Like you said, I went forward and hit him with red, and I just...died. It was very fast, took about a second. I think this is due to lightning strikes

Kyle Kelasheski
06-25-2006, 01:33 PM
I like the idea of being able to parry while on the floor. Have you seen the Ryan vs dorkman Star Wars dueling trailer on Youtube? In one scene, they start to fight each other while prone on the floor, very cool indeed

I have yet to see the footage you've mentioned, but I'm happy that you enjoy my proposal in regards to being able to temporarily defend one's self from an almost completely kicked down position. :-)




From personal experience, it's possible to lose 4 bars of DP almost immediately due to lightning strikes

I wasn't aware of how hits can be "stacked" against a player in one of these lightning strikes. I guess that's because Real Life's been keeping my attention away from these development forums for too long. I certainly hope that these stacked hits are a feature that aren't hardcoded into JA, because in any game, it is very challenging NOT to use an exploit, or, at the very least, think about it when one's playing it.

So, this exploit doesn't apply to human opponents, but only to bots that one's too physically close to?





By the way, I noticed you mod for OFP too. Good on you bud! OFP = best tactical game ever :king1:

Thank you for your warm reception in regards to what I've contributed to OFP, but the enormity of thanks definately belongs to Razorace and his cohorts, without whom I wouldn't be able to release sound mods for this exciting endeavor.

Speaking of which, I have created an update to that sound mod which I would like to release soon. I replaced the Healing effect with something that I feel is much more natural sounding, and I'm trying to get a sound loop to work for Rage, but thus far my efforts keep getting hampered by a "clicking" noise that keeps adding itself to the very end of the effect I'm trying to craft. I'm starting to suspect that it's due to the fact that the source file is a .mp3, but I'm not 100% sure on this.



Time for me to enter some grades, and do more lesson writing.

Yours!

Kyle
June 25, 2006

UDM
06-25-2006, 01:39 PM
Operation Flashpoint, not Open Jedi Project, which I noticed in your sig :)

The "exploit" should apply to human opponents too. And based on dueling experience in JA, I fear this may actually be hardcoded. Many times when I duel, my saber will lock with the opponent's (different from saber lock). There will be a large, prolonged clashing sound of sabers, and then a large amount of hp gone (sometimes instant death too). I think this may be linked to lightning strikes

Kyle Kelasheski
06-25-2006, 04:49 PM
UDM,

Ahh, I misread "OFP" :fire11: for "OJP" :lsduel: ! Now that little :blush2: gaff is embarrassing! :)

I'm always happy to discover someone else who's familiar with Operation Flashpoint, as it is very challenging in the tactics department. :clap2: I guess that I shouldn't be surprised that fans of that game would also be enthralled with a mod such as OJP E, as the new dueling system significantly raises the bar in the strategy category from the adventure slash fest that Raven produced. There are a TON of superb mods for Operation Flashpoint, and I'm happy to say that I have contributed to a number of them.

You might be interested in another mod that I've made contributions to, it's a total conversion for the original Unreal Tournament known as Infiltration . You can find it here: http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net/ (http://) Unfortunately the bots aren't too bright, but if one can still find an online game, one will be in for a real nail biting experience. Tactics is the only word to use when playing Infiltration. Even against bots, it has a real steep learning curve, but the sense of accomplishment is immense. Be sure to check their forums, as some very worthwhile mods/mutators have been released since official development evaporated away. The small community that's left is very dedicated to the game, and continue to release superb upgrades that are "must haves."

But back on topic... :smash:

I hope, really hope that the phenomena that's being described here in regards to the stacked up saber damage is something that can be avoided. Is there anyone out there with the coding know how who can respond to this?

Kyle
June 25, 2006

:)

razorace
06-25-2006, 09:14 PM
Hopefully I've fixed the insta-strike with the code that is currently on the code server. Let me know if it's still a problem after the next release.

JRHockney*
06-25-2006, 09:40 PM
Hopefully I've fixed the insta-strike with the code that is currently on the code server. Let me know if it's still a problem after the next release.

Oh yeah thats right. Hopefully this has fixed the overpoweredness of bluestyle. Although the slowbounce anims are still faster, I noticed that its alot easier to do conversions on. Hooray! Blue style is balanced I think!!

razorace
06-26-2006, 12:52 AM
the slow bounce animations shouldn't be any faster, I adjusted the animation speeds to even it with the other styles.

JRHockney*
06-26-2006, 01:48 AM
the slow bounce animations shouldn't be any faster, I adjusted the animation speeds to even it with the other styles.

Sorry I miswrote. I meant the animation for blue slowbounce is shorter than the others. And your right, it does move at the same speed as the others. It just ends quicker.

razorace
06-26-2006, 02:20 PM
How can they be running at the same speed but end quicker?

JRHockney*
06-26-2006, 02:29 PM
How can they be running at the same speed but end quicker?

I think the animation is just shorter. Less frames to go through.

razorace
06-27-2006, 02:19 AM
I can doublecheck, but I beleive I adjusted the blue style bounce animation frame speeds to make them equilient in length to the other styles.

Kyle Kelasheski
06-27-2006, 10:54 PM
I'm happy to hear that this exploit has/is correctable. I hope that the code server is up tomorrow, so I can try out the latest build and see for myself.

:)

JRHockney*
06-28-2006, 12:56 AM
I can doublecheck, but I beleive I adjusted the blue style bounce animation frame speeds to make them equilient in length to the other styles.

No problem. But like I said, its ok if it is since its easier to do conversions on.

Maxstate
06-29-2006, 02:50 AM
All hail massive bug fixing!