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View Full Version : 32 hours WASTED GRRRRRRRRR


Mosier
06-26-2006, 08:23 PM
I just realized a MAJOR design flaw in KotoR2 that completely ruined my game after wasting 32 hours on it! See, the first game determined your light/dark side fate largely by your actions: do evil things, your character becomes evil and follows the evil storyline. But thanks to a stupid mistake on Onderron, I got stuck in the evil storyline with a 100% Light Master character.

Basically what happened was that when I was walking around with Visas, I accidentally set off a power coupling that killed somebody. I didn't even know who he was when I did it. Only HOURS later did I realize that by killing him, I was FORCED BY THE GAME to support the general in the civil war! I HAD NO CHOICE despite the fact that EVERY SINGLE THING I had done on that planet was designed by me to support the queen. Unfortunately I had already saved after killing that guy, not realizing the magnitude of what I had done. It wasn't until I had left the planet and played through the ENTIRE Nar Shadaa level that I realized I was being forced down the Sith storyline with a Light Side Jedi Master after 32 hours of playing. I was FORCED to kill the Jedi Master against my wishes. The game has completely ignored EVERYTHING I have done with my character and the fact that he can not possibly be more Light aligned yet all I have a choice of saying is KILL THIS, and REVENGE that! And since this character is supposed to be a level 25 Jedi Master with nothing but light side powers, I am now supposed to play it like he were evil. This game is completely ruined.

Now to make it worse, if I want the CORRECT game path, I have to REPLAY 32 HOURS the exact same way to get back to where I am supposed to be, AND the replay value as a Sith is ruined too because the payoff of being a different character along the Sith path has been ruined just as if you went into ESB already knowing Vader was Luke's father. The whole fun of playing as the other side is to see how things are different, but now I have to go through 30 hours already knowing where the story is going to end up. I could not possibly be more furious that the fate of the ENTIRE game revolves around me killing ONE nobody with a COMPANION of the actual character I have invested SO much time in.

But whatever I do, the fact remains that my current character is now stuck in a dead end .

:firemad: :firemad: :firemad: :firemad:


*EDIT* READ AT THE BOTTOM FOR MY NEW POST

tbl1
06-26-2006, 08:41 PM
Didn't you save in different slots?

Achilles
06-26-2006, 08:54 PM
^^^^
*Laughs*

I think the exact words are "Save often and in different slots" :D

RedHawke
06-26-2006, 09:25 PM
^^^^
Yup, it is amazing the amount of people that ignore that little loading screen tidbit.

"Save often and in different slots" is good advice for just about any RPG. ;)

milo
06-26-2006, 10:39 PM
Haha, that really sucks dude. Should've saved your game. The same thing happened to me, but I save a lot, so I didn't have to redo hardly anything. Hope you learned your lesson. :xp:

Point Man
06-26-2006, 11:01 PM
I find it hard to believe setting off a power coupling would force you to support Vaklu instead of Talia. Are you sure you did not inadvertently choose the wrong dialog option when talking to the two Onderon natives who ask you what you think of the situation?

Oh, and WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

Arátoeldar
06-26-2006, 11:04 PM
^^^^
*Laughs*

I think the exact words are "Save often and in different slots" :D

Especially your first time through. In Kotor 1 I Just save at major plot points but In Kotor 2 I save a lot more frequently.

Jae Onasi
06-26-2006, 11:11 PM
Well, Mosier, just play it through dark side this time and finish it out for the dark side story, and start a new game for the LS version. If you can do mods, KSE will let you turn your character into something delightfully evil for the duration of that game.
Welcome, too!

RellikRats
06-27-2006, 12:47 AM
...just as if you went into ESB already knowing Vader was Luke's father.

Vader is Luke's FATHER? shock1

Oh, well, thanks a LOT!!!!!!!

:nut:

mimic666
06-27-2006, 01:17 AM
Vader is Luke's FATHER? shock1

Oh, well, thanks a LOT!!!!!!!

:nut:
BWAHAHAHAHAHA BWAHAHAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA *coughs* HA HA HA HA ugh HA HA HA HA okay I'm finished... HA HA HA BWAHAHA HA HA... HA... It seems you've seen both Trilogy's Original first... HAHAHAHAHAHA

lukeiamyourdad
06-27-2006, 02:01 AM
Wait...how can you accidently set off those power coupling? You need those DS quests killing those generals for that no? Don't you need to be a Dark Sider to be able to do those?

It's been a while since I played hehe

Mosier
06-27-2006, 02:51 AM
^^^^
*Laughs*

I think the exact words are "Save often and in different slots" :D

Actually I had four save slots going, it's just that I didn't realize the repercussions until I had already rotated through and saved over my last one before this incident. It was only later in the bar meeting the Jedi when that Colonel showed up and I had no choice but to support the general in the dialogue trees (at least that I could find). I immediately tried to reload an older one, but none of them went back that far. I think even vaping that guy wouldn't have been the end of me had I not randomly bumped into that woman in the courtyard that wanted me to get rid of the three officers. In every conversation before and after that I spoke up for the queen.

Funny, the whole reason I registered here was so I could vent to people that would understand. My wife didn't seem to understand why I was so mad I wanted to punch my screen. She could hardly appreciate the full gravity of what had happened to me and just kind of looked at me funny... :ball:

Thanks for the sympathy. :)

Mosier
06-27-2006, 03:04 AM
Well, Mosier, just play it through dark side this time and finish it out for the dark side story, and start a new game for the LS version. If you can do mods, KSE will let you turn your character into something delightfully evil for the duration of that game.
Welcome, too!

That is my only option with this character. It's just that it will be no fun replaying the whole game the same way, just retracing my steps for 30 hours. If I do that, the character will be essentially the same one I've already played. And if I redo it to be evil, then the STORY will be the same one I've already played.

And the way I accidentally did it was by clicking on the wrong thing in the security console. Just a slip of the finger. When the effect appeared to be a dark side point I figured "big deal." I'm already full on LS so this won't affect my character any. Boy was I wrong...

lukeiamyourdad
06-27-2006, 03:05 AM
Well, that makes no sense really. You need to be a Dark Sider to trigger the woman in the courtyard quests to get rid of the captains. It happens to be DS only.
It certainly is a bug. A weird one, an unheard one and I doubt that was meant to happen. 100% sure it isn't a game flaw.

Besides, you spoke up for the Queen but killed her loyal captains. Your actions speak for themselves :D

PoiuyWired
06-27-2006, 03:24 AM
Well even if you trigger the quests, you can choose NOT to side with them also.

HerbieZ
06-27-2006, 05:49 AM
To be honest i think this is the way the game is meant to be played. Just put it down to fate and imagine this is real life, you have to go forward and not back. Maybe your character can repent towards the end and be on the light path after all. Now that's a good story. It's all down to fate my friend.

Lantzen
06-27-2006, 08:07 AM
lol, you know that when Tobin contact you at the Cantina, you can refuse to join him? You should maybe look throgh the dialoug choises a little more

Jae Onasi
06-27-2006, 09:06 AM
That is my only option with this character. It's just that it will be no fun replaying the whole game the same way, just retracing my steps for 30 hours. If I do that, the character will be essentially the same one I've already played. And if I redo it to be evil, then the STORY will be the same one I've already played.
.

It won't be _exactly_ the same--try playing the other gender, a different class, different party members, different planet order, etc. It's never the same game twice, even when you do play it same class and gender. :)

igyman
06-27-2006, 09:16 AM
Regardless of any mistake Mosier made when it comes to saving, the fact is that TSL has quite a few unpleasant bugs that can really ruin the game experience, unlike KoTOR 1, which was practically bug-free.

Lantzen
06-27-2006, 10:04 AM
But this isn't a bug, he could back out from the deal at the cantina

And BTW, the game ain't ruined, i have played it throgh 10-14 times

Lord Foley
06-27-2006, 11:06 AM
This might just be me, but when I play Light Side, I don't go around killing random people with computers.

Just a thought.

Well, that makes no sense really. You need to be a Dark Sider to trigger the woman in the courtyard quests to get rid of the captains. It happens to be DS only.
It certainly is a bug. A weird one, an unheard one and I doubt that was meant to happen. 100% sure it isn't a game flaw.

No, I'm positive that the woman offers you the quest no matter what side you're on- I just got offered it today, and I'm a Jedi Master with Light Side Mastery.

Achilles
06-27-2006, 01:13 PM
@LIAYD - Hmmm...it's been a while for me to. IIRC, you have to have sided with Vaklu with the aliens and spoken with Vaklu representative (can't remember her name) in order to make that available. Could be wrong though. If so, I have even less sympathy for OP.

@Mosier - The particular gentleman that you vaporized is critical path for the LS option so killing him put you automatically on the DS path. Luckily there are at least 2 or three other failsafes in place to prevent you from "accidentally" killing him. You acknowledge having encountered one of them, but what you fail to mention is that you also sided with Vaklu with the debating aliens as well (the "random woman" dialog isn't available if you do not).

Clearly the results of your actions are not what you were anticipating and clearly that is upsetting (it would chap my backside too). I think everyone makes a stupid mistake in their gameplay career and the only thing that competes with the frustration of having it happen is the hilarity in seeing it happen to someone else.

It seems to me that your wife has some perspective. Maybe you should listen to her.

@igyman - I'm sorry, which version of KotOR were you referring to? The initial release or KotOR after 3 game patches? Before you answer, please remember that the game still has bugs (albeit minor ones) even after 3 patches.

@Lord Foley - Post #21: LMAO!!!. Post #22: If I recall correctly, if you side for the Queen with the alien debaters, that NPC won't talk to you. You'll get dialog baloon that reads "This woman appears to be waiting for someone" or something like that. If you side with Vaklu, then she will actually have dialog. At least that's how it's designed to work and has worked for me everytime I've played. *shrugs*

Prime
06-27-2006, 01:53 PM
the fact is that TSL has quite a few unpleasant bugs that can really ruin the game experience, unlike KoTOR 1, which was practically bug-free.Except of course the bugs that made KOTOR virtually unplayable on many machines.

Jae Onasi
06-27-2006, 02:05 PM
Funny, the whole reason I registered here was so I could vent to people that would understand. My wife didn't seem to understand why I was so mad I wanted to punch my screen. She could hardly appreciate the full gravity of what had happened to me and just kind of looked at me funny... :ball:

Thanks for the sympathy. :)

You'd probably get more sympathy if
a. None of us had done something equally spectacularly awful to our own games and
b. We weren't such a bunch of smart-alecks.

At least your wife just looked at you funny. If JimboFett66 (my hubby) had done that, I probably would have laughed at the poor guy. :dev7:

@Prime--too true--after all the changes I've made on my laptop, Kotor will still hang when loading from time to time, but I've never had that problem with TSL once.

EnderWiggin
06-27-2006, 02:25 PM
Except of course the bugs that made KOTOR virtually unplayable on many machines.


:rofl:

_EW_

Mosier
06-27-2006, 03:10 PM
@Mosier - The particular gentleman that you vaporized is critical path for the LS option so killing him put you automatically on the DS path. Luckily there are at least 2 or three other failsafes in place to prevent you from "accidentally" killing him. You acknowledge having encountered one of them, but what you fail to mention is that you also sided with Vaklu with the debating aliens as well (the "random woman" dialog isn't available if you do not).


Not True. In that conversation I specifically sided with the queen. As far as blowing up the power coupling, at the time I was in solo mode with Visas and since she was a Sith herself, I kind of figured it was appropriate for her character. Since the quest was to get rid of ALL 3 of the captains, not just one I figured that witout completing the quest it wouldn't "count". Besides, even in KOTOR 1 I don't think your fate is sealed until the end when you specifically have to choose between Bastilla and your companions so I figured that down the line I would have that same choice, but I could never find it. Anyway, what's done is done....

Achilles
06-27-2006, 03:56 PM
I have a dialog file that would tend to say that you are wrong, but in an infinite universe anything is possible. I'm sure you encountered a bug that completely countered that global check. That would explain how you sided for the Queen yet got put on the Vaklu path.

Arátoeldar
06-27-2006, 05:14 PM
You'd probably get more sympathy if
a. None of us had done something equally spectacularly awful to our own games and
b. We weren't such a bunch of smart-alecks.

At least your wife just looked at you funny. If JimboFett66 (my hubby) had done that, I probably would have laughed at the poor guy. :dev7:

@Prime--too true--after all the changes I've made on my laptop, Kotor will still hang when loading from time to time, but I've never had that problem with TSL once.

Quoted for the emphasis

igyman
06-28-2006, 08:20 AM
@igyman - I'm sorry, which version of KotOR were you referring to? The initial release or KotOR after 3 game patches? Before you answer, please remember that the game still has bugs (albeit minor ones) even after 3 patches.


Except of course the bugs that made KOTOR virtually unplayable on many machines.

Yes, the game (v1.0) had some performance problems, but the first patch that solved them was out very quickly, so who cares? As for the other two patches, they mostly added/removed/fixed some keyboard control options, the most important of those fixes was enabling the arrow keys to be used as movement keys. My point - the bugs that could ruin the game experience were fixed in the first patch.

RedHawke
06-28-2006, 10:07 PM
Yes, the game (v1.0) had some performance problems, but the first patch that solved them was out very quickly, so who cares?
Uh? We do when you state things that are simply untrue and distorted from what actually happened.

As for the other two patches, they mostly added/removed/fixed some keyboard control options, the most important of those fixes was enabling the arrow keys to be used as movement keys. My point - the bugs that could ruin the game experience were fixed in the first patch.
Incorrect... the first and second patch fixed major issues, it wasn't magically fixed with one patch like you are saying. :disaprove

Here is the patch history if you don't believe me.

Star Wars(R): Knights of the Old Republic(TM) v1.03

Here are the changes in this update:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
- Fixed a bug where the Walk key was not bindable.

SWConfig
=-=-=-=-
- Added in detection for Soft Shadows support for ATI based on the supported driver version


LucasArts Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic page:
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/swkotor/

BioWare Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic page:
http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic/

BioWare Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic forums:
http://swforums.bioware.com/index.html?viewcat=11



Star Wars(R): Knights of the Old Republic(TM) 1.02:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- Added the ability to map the Arrow keys for main game movement.
- Added a Walk option button; by default it is the B key. While holding down the Walk button, your character will walk.
- Added support for 1280x1024 resolution.
- Added the ability to see all available party members character, ability, and equip screens while on the Ebon Hawk or in the apartment.
- Added the ability to hide the game GUI when taking screenshots. Use the following settings in your swkotor.ini in the "Game Options" section:
EnableScreenShot=1
GUIsInScreenShot=0
- The container GUI screen will no longer close everytime you click Give Item.
- Holding Shift when clicking Give Item or double-clicking the item to give will transfer the entire stack, without shift it moves the items one at a time.
- Added in some extra error checking and logging for loading and saving save games. If there is any problem, a file called "fileerror.log" is created.
- Made a fix to the Force Point Regeneration item property so it actually regenerates Force points.
- Fixed an issue where in some rare cases, the player would be killed while on the Leviathan.
- Fixed an issue with Dantooine Pazaak occasionally breaking Suvam Tan on Yavin.
- The Sand Person disguise will no longer be reset when entering Anchorhead and the Dockingbay.
- Dead party members will no longer show up later in the game. What with them being dead and all.
- Fixed the Hidden Bek Door (Security Station) to no longer display the 'Impossible' message.
- Fixed a visual issue with Power Blast and using Dual Blasters where the off-hand blaster wasn't firing.
- Fixed a problem which would cause dialogue to skip through without playing any VO.
- Fixed a problem where you would get stuck at a black screen after a game load or an area transition.
- Fixed a problem where the screensaver could activate during the playback of a movie.
- Put in a symptomatic fix for your character's attributes being reset to all 8's.
- Put in a symptomatic fix for party members getting stuck and not fighting.
- Put in a symptomatic fix for losing force points when going through area transitions with Force Valor active.
- Removed the +2 bonus to the offhand attack when wielding a balanced weapon in the offhand or when wielding a double bladed weapon.
- Removed the ability to bind controls to the "Alt" key. The "Alt" key was never inteded to be a usable key in the first place.
- Fixed a rare crash bug when leaving the Ebon Hawk or the Apartments with party members.
- Made some stability improvements.

SWConfig
=-=-=-=-
- Added a check for the minimum graphics card driver version for ATI and NVIDIA based video cards as stated in the Troubleshooting Guide. If you scan your hardware and do not meet the minimum requirements for the game, you will be prompted to launch your web browser to download the latest drivers.
- Fixed a minor bug in RAM detection where it was sometimes off by 1 or 2 MB.



Star Wars(R): Knights of the Old Republic(TM) 1.01:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- Added two new "swkotor.ini" sound options,
[Sound Options]
Environment Effects Nonstreaming=1
Environment Effects Streaming=1
The Environment Effects Streaming=0 option was added to fix a problem with sound pauses while playing the game with an Intel i845 or i850 chipset motherboard and a 100 MHz Front Side Bus.
- removed the awareness penalty when running
- Made a fix to the "Disable Vertex Buffer Objects" option in "swkotor.ini".
[Graphics Options]
Disable Vertex Buffer Objects=1
If you are having some odd, random graphics issues you may be able to resolve them by adding an entry to your "swkotor.ini" file:
- Made a fix to the Enable Hardware Mouse option when it is disabled. This fixes a crash with certain ATI Radeon 9600 video cards.
- Made a fix to a display issue with Small Fonts.
- Made a fix to a gamma issue after movies finish playing.
- Removed the display of Force Points on portrait tooltips for non-Jedi characters.
- Fixed bug where some objects in the game would give a sticky mouse indicator like they had an inventory when they did not.
- Fixed an issue where if you changed appearance while Force Speed was active your movement rate would return to normal.
- Fixed an issue with droid animation when the item they were using ran out or their target died.
- The turret mini-game should no longer have the blur visual effect if you enter it with that visual effect turned on.
- The Security option no longer displays for doors which a key is required.
- Fixed a rare bug where the game could get stuck if an autopause was triggered at the exact same time as an area transition.
- Fixed a rare crash that could happen when a Dark Jedi dies at the exact same time as he deflected a blaster bolt.
- Fixed a rare crash on startup under Windows 98.
- Fixed a few memory leaks.
Sorry igyman, but I personally know a few who couldn't play the game until 1.2 as it fixed the cutstart issues they were having.

So we know the KotOR Patch history differently than you seem to. But one patch was not enough.

Jae Onasi
06-28-2006, 10:49 PM
Oh yeah, my favorite fix:

- Dead party members will no longer show up later in the game. What with them being dead and all.

:D

HerbieZ
06-30-2006, 04:10 PM
LOL i loved that one.

Mosier
07-27-2006, 01:22 AM
I played through again as a light side character, taking particular care to get on Talia's side on Onderon. I have to say I was shocked that those jerk Jedi tried to kill me anyway! I don't feel bad for "having" to murder them in my first play through. BUT

The most important thing is that with my LS master who sided with the General on Onderon I was STILL able to complete the LS story line. I thought I had been doomed because everyone on Onderon and the Jedi Council kept referring to me as a Sith and I had evil dialogue choices during those two scenes. HOWEVER, after I killed the Council and Kreia zapped me, I was still given the Force Enlightenment power instead of the Sith one. Further, with Atris and Malachor I behaved as a LS (fighting against my percieved fate) and lo and behold I was actually given the LS ending (but with Vaklu at Telos Station). The end was so underwhelming it didn't seem to matter which side I was on, but I was very pleased that I wasn't trapped in the Sith storyline with a LS character because of one mistake in the middle of the game. Though I did kill the Council, they DID attack me on sight so it was really self defense, right? :)

Maverick5770
07-27-2006, 01:56 AM
:lips1: Sure it was self defense Mr. Sithy :sithk:. Look Here :sign2: It clearly states that if you fight back when attacked by the Jedi Masters, you are a Sith :mauls:. lol, Just Kidding, glad you finally managed to achieve LS and pefect Neutrality. Now you've given me something to try, getting the same thng you have.

Black Jesus
07-27-2006, 07:55 AM
I personally have about 3-5 save slots. It's a good idea.

But yeah, sometimes "big" decisions impact your character and the "little" ones don't at all (can be nullified as the OP states).

Prime
07-27-2006, 10:01 AM
Black Jesus, black text is annoyingly hard to read.

Mace MacLeod
08-01-2006, 07:37 PM
Just to spam my drunken remarks to get closer to the fabled 1000 posts so I can choose my own title:

So what exactly was in the Hidden Bek area that was *impossible* to get into? I never did update my copy of KotOR (which somehow worked just fine thank you), so what was in there, anyway?

Maverick5770
08-02-2006, 01:19 AM
It's not imposssible to get into, you just have to be DS It will take you to were Gadon THeks room is so you can kill him, if we're talking about the same "impossible" area