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BastilaShanWeb
06-28-2006, 05:06 PM
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Exile

Yes Jedi Exile has been comnfirmed of being female. Not male, what a shame I much prefer Jedi Exile male. But too che.

Lantzen
06-28-2006, 05:37 PM
Revan is LS male, Exile is LS Female, see where this going:naughty:

BastilaShanWeb
06-28-2006, 05:44 PM
That means Mical is canon, dammit, and Brianna is non-existent.

Lantzen
06-28-2006, 05:47 PM
Brianna still exist, she is with Atris, if she survived

BastilaShanWeb
06-28-2006, 05:50 PM
Yeah I know that but she has hardly a role.

Arátoeldar
06-28-2006, 05:52 PM
Until I see it on StarWars.com then I don't believe it.

mimic666
06-28-2006, 05:56 PM
Wasn't there a discussion about how Wikipedia is untrustworthy? I really don't care if Exile is he or she you'll have romance either way and you can kill people either way. You can have an adventure either way. It's RPG either way.

igyman
06-28-2006, 06:02 PM
Yup, as we've already determined, wikipedia isn't a reliable source of information. Until it's posted in the official SW database it's still a presumption.

Arátoeldar
06-28-2006, 06:24 PM
Yup, as we've already determined, wikipedia isn't a reliable source of information. Until it's posted in the official SW database it's still a presumption.

Not so much wikipedia as the Star Wars, Star Trek. or anything else that has fan based speculation or wookiepedia.

PoiuyWired
06-28-2006, 06:47 PM
Well, I heard Exile is leaning towards Female as well, but it is not canon yet, unlike the LSM Revan.

Plus, even if LSF Exile is canon, it does not mean no change is done to the story, there is still a chance where both Brianna and Mical boarding the ship. Well if its true that Exile is LSF then I just found my most hated Star Wars character :3

Whatever it is, the default love interest seems to be Visas for Male and Atton for Female though.

Oh, if someone ahve the "New Droids Guide" as mentioned in the wiki post, please scan the small text section of Exile being Female, if it is found. Since its about Droids, I would suggest looking at the "H" section, or maybe the "T" section.

Thanks in advance.

Hallucination
06-29-2006, 12:41 AM
Yes Jedi Exile has been comnfirmed of being female.
Well, that is the one I prefer (a little bit of a contrast to the LSM Revan), but I'd rather not have a canon Exile.

mjpb3
06-29-2006, 02:23 AM
While a small part of me wants to squeal with delight because Exile has been "canonized", there is another larger part that sees this as absurd and wants to laugh uncontrollably at the idiosy of stating that an RPG game character, whom you can CHOOSE to be either male or female, has been "canonized" as "officially" female. Huh? WTF?

It's like Revan all over again... :rolleyes: :lol:

Who really gives a rip one way or the other? These are game characters people. My goodness, if Revan or Exile are SUPPOSED to be one way or the other, then why even give me a choice to start with? Sheesh...

You can CHOOSE to play male or female. Personally, I play female Revan and female Exile (who by the way romances Disciple, NOT Atton), and that's my personal choice and always will be, but I think it is unfair to "set" a gender that leaves some gamers scratching their heads and thinking, "B-but I choose a male Exile! WTF? Why even give me a choice then!?"

Same goes for Revan. I chose a female Revan, always choose a female Revan, and always will choose a female Revan. Who is going to stop me? Some article that says Revan is "canonically" male? Yeah, right... :lol:

RedHawke
06-29-2006, 02:41 AM
^^^^
Don't worry mjpb3, it isn't cannon yet!

It is typical wiki heresay... based off of some forum posts if you look closely.

And I do believe that many people take the whole Revan Light Side Male thing way too far, that is a 'cannon' guide so that other EU writers can have some consistancy, not anything else.

Like you, my Revan will always be a female. Same with my Jaden Korr, Jaden will always be a scantily clad female twilek with a purple double-bladed saber. ;)

*Considers taking the JK:JA CD off of my CD Mobile of Horrible Games to play Jaden once again... then decides against it.*

mjpb3
06-29-2006, 02:52 AM
Oh, I don't believe anything I read on Wiki as far as I can throw my computer, but it is still irksome that they, and many other sites, shove it down gamers throats (male AND female collectively) that Revan is a LSM. What about us folks who play female Revan, or even play a darkside Revan? What of us?

Same goes for Exile. What of the folks who play darkside male Exile. Or darkside female Exile, lightside male Exile, etc...

It's just ridiculous no matter how you look at it. I thought when I bought the game(s) that I had a choice. That's what the package said anyway. So now my choices (and other gamers who play differently than said "canon") don't mean anything? Phffft!

Like you, my Revan will always be a female.Bless you RedHawke ;)

Darkkender
06-29-2006, 03:18 AM
I have a hard time agreeing that the Main character shouldn't be canonized. While I enjoy playing both games as both male and female ls and ds. The thought of a "canon" defined character is also nice for people in the writing community who might be trying to write stories based off of the main Kotor PC character. Even placing references in books without a gender reference is really difficult. Of course anything Wikipedia = Worldwide Independant Keepers of Ignorant Pieces of Encyclopedic Dribble In Agregate form. Or simply put by many 98% fandom rubish when it comes to a fan based topic.

Jackel
06-29-2006, 03:52 AM
Like you, my Revan will always be a female.
My Revan will always be a heavy set hermaphrodite crossdresser :smash:

Same with my Jaden Korr, Jaden will always be a scantily clad female twilek with a purple double-bladed saber. ;)
Yes but what colour? Thats very important! If you choose purple and someone else choose blue it might mean yours isn't cannon :P

My Jaden was a pale blue twilek weilding twin sabers and a large plasma sword (mod sword of course) with a customised outfit designed by me.

RedHawke
06-29-2006, 05:57 AM
The thought of a "canon" defined character is also nice for people in the writing community who might be trying to write stories based off of the main Kotor PC character.
That is the only purpose of the so called "canon" Light Side Male Revan statement, it isn't what some fanboys make it out to be. ;)

My Revan will always be a heavy set hermaphrodite crossdresser :smash:
*RedHawke gets out a ten-foot pole...* :xp:

BastilaShanWeb
06-29-2006, 07:35 AM
Oh its by canonized now, I just got my chroonloy of droids today and it said Exile is Female and its an official star wars book. Damnit!

mimic666
06-29-2006, 08:19 AM
You have a digicam or at least a Webcam so can post some pics?

BastilaShanWeb
06-29-2006, 08:46 AM
Yeah I do. Let me get on it.

Prime
06-29-2006, 11:54 AM
Wasn't there a discussion about how Wikipedia is untrustworthy? It can be, which is why it is always important to try and determine the source of the claims you find here.

In this case, it is presumably in the (as yet unreleased I believe) New Essentail Guid to Droids. We will have to wait until that comes out to know for sure.

PoiuyWired
06-29-2006, 03:18 PM
Well, this time I say wiki did a great job. It provieds with us the "quote" o check for the validity of the post.

Jackel
06-29-2006, 07:50 PM
My Revan will always be a heavy set hermaphrodite crossdresser :smash:

*RedHawke gets out a ten-foot pole...* :xp:
Nah my Revan was generally that short haired white guy with the scar. The one OE redid in a like blonde colour and used for all the promotional material. That or the asian female with the ribbon in her hair.

Alkonium
06-29-2006, 07:55 PM
Alright then. Now, in my opinion, there are three ways to handle the Canonical Exile being female. One: take it like a man (accept it and move on), or two: take it like a n00b (rant about it every chance you get), or three: take it like a man the other way(punch yourself in the crotch until you can't remember a thing). I strongly recommend the first option, as people are much more likely to listen to reason. And hey, at least the Exile is still LS, right?

Revan435
06-29-2006, 08:13 PM
Yes Jedi Exile has been comnfirmed of being female.

just to make all the female fans feel better about revan being a male canonically.<---------dont know how to spell

lol peace to all the females. im not a sexist.

Point Man
06-29-2006, 11:27 PM
Well, now I have to play a female Exile so I can learn the "real" story.

zadi
06-29-2006, 11:27 PM
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Exile

Cite: On June 27, 2006, with the release of the The New Essential Guide to Droids, the Exile's gender was canonically established as female.

Anyone bought the book to confirm that?

Jackel
06-30-2006, 12:25 AM
Oh its by canonized now, I just got my chroonloy of droids today and it said Exile is Female and its an official star wars book. Damnit!
Just quoting this so people stop asking if anyone has the book and actually take time to read the thread. BSW says they have the book and it confirms that the "Exile" is female.

PoiuyWired
07-01-2006, 02:36 PM
Alright then. Now, in my opinion, there are three ways to handle the Canonical Exile being female. One: take it like a man (accept it and move on), or two: take it like a n00b (rant about it every chance you get), or three: take it like a man the other way(punch yourself in the crotch until you can't remember a thing). I strongly recommend the first option, as people are much more likely to listen to reason. And hey, at least the Exile is still LS, right?

Well, actually LS Female Exile is not bad either, just that the story will be more "bleak"

The plus side would be a "sisterhood" for Mira.

The downside would be the loss(practically, unless canon story is slightly modified from gameplay) of wonderful character like Brianna/Handmaiden.

The worst worst worst part would me air-time for that ronto buttock licker jediphile stalker leaving his disgusting slime on the Ebon Hawk. They should just tie him up with a rope and dangle him behind the thrusters all the way.

Char Ell
07-03-2006, 10:35 PM
Just to back up BastilaShanWeb's statement, I stopped by my local bookstore and read the entries for GOTO, T3, and HK droids in The New Essential Guide to Droids. All three referred to the Exile as a female. Surprisingly enough, someone posted the quotes from NEGD on the wiki article's discussion tab. It's good to see this type of improvement in the citing of sources from wiki contributors. Three NEGD quotes (emphasis mine):
"Five standard years later, T3-M4 reappeared aboard the abandoned freighter Ebon Hawk, where he fell into the company of the heroine known only as the Jedi Exile."
"HK-47 teamed up with the heroine known as the Jedi Exile to battle a trio of Sith Lords."
"G0-T0 soon became mixed up with an exiled Jedi Knight and her mission to destroy the Sith Lords."
I'm not really interested in that era, and I've never played the games. But that looks pretty much like a deliberate editorial decision to me. So we'll have to see how this plays out in any future KotOR series storylines. I also took notice of the NEGD's GOTO and HK articles specifically mentioning the HK droid factory on Telos even though that part of TSL got cut.
Well, now I have to play a female Exile so I can learn the "real" story. Yeah, me too. I've never played KotOR or TSL as a female. I'm not sure how it's going to work for me.

EDIT:
And I do believe that many people take the whole Revan Light Side Male thing way too far, that is a 'cannon' guide so that other EU writers can have some consistancy, not anything else.So how do you reconcile the Chronicles' continual references to Revan using masculine descriptors (he, him) on LEC's TSL website?

RedHawke
07-04-2006, 03:47 AM
So how do you reconcile the Chronicles' continual references to Revan using masculine descriptors (he, him) on LEC's TSL website?
How does this question contradict what I stated? If anything it backs up my statement.

For the record: In considering what should be "canon" for KotOR and TSL the game itself is the highest source, then the later writings, a gender for a game character is specified as a guideline for other EU writers, nothing more.

Char Ell
07-04-2006, 11:29 AM
^^^
I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying so if I may restate what I believe your point is...
- KotOR and TSL are the highest sources of canon for the games, meaning since the games allow one to choose the PC's gender there is no "canon" gender for either Revan or the Exile.
- Official sources like the Chronicles posted on the official TSL website and The New Essential Guide to Droids are at a lower canon level than the game and so should not be considered to supersede the game when they state Revan is a male and the Exile a female.

If the above two statements accurately reflect what you're saying and are in line with LEC's approach for this issue then I have a problem with how LEC and LL are handling the whole gender question surrounding these two EU characters. I've noted that while there is no entry for Revan on the Star Wars website's databank, references to Revan in Malak's and Bastila's databank entries maintain gender neutrality. I don't understand then why the TSL Chronicles couldn't continue using gender neutral terms for Revan. I also don't understand why three articles in the NEGD go out of their way to make the Exile a female instead of maintaining gender neutrality. ...a gender for a game character is specified as a guideline for other EU writers, nothing more.There are no EU writers writing stories about Revan or the Exile that I'm aware of so why set a guideline when one isn't needed? Furthermore, maintaining gender neutrality would allow the flexibility to make a decision on gender further down the road or not make a decision at all and leave the gender question open indefinitely. Of course I think leaving the "canon" gender for Revan and the Exile as undetermined limits the two characters ability to be used in books or comics.

I fully respect yours and mjpb3's (and anybody else's) decision to play your Revan or your Exile using whatever gender you choose. However when official SW sources no longer support gender neutral versions then I just take that as the powers-that-be making a decision as to which gender they want to actually go with for the SW history books.

Sabretooth
07-04-2006, 11:59 AM
*Reads thread in much amusement*

It's a bloody Wiki, People!

Prime
07-04-2006, 12:25 PM
*Reads thread in much amusement*

It's a bloody Wiki, People!What's your point?

Lantzen
07-04-2006, 12:46 PM
Revan is LSM by cannon, and you can still set him as darkside and female. So RedHawke have right about the game is the best source, IMO.

RedHawke
07-05-2006, 02:47 AM
^^^
I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying so if I may restate what I believe your point is...
- KotOR and TSL are the highest sources of canon for the games, meaning since the games allow one to choose the PC's gender there is no "canon" gender for either Revan or the Exile.
- Official sources like the Chronicles posted on the official TSL website and The New Essential Guide to Droids are at a lower canon level than the game and so should not be considered to supersede the game when they state Revan is a male and the Exile a female.
You would be correct... the same would apply for the Jaden Korr character of Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy.

If the above two statements accurately reflect what you're saying and are in line with LEC's approach for this issue then I have a problem with how LEC and LL are handling the whole gender question surrounding these two EU characters.
Well, they have to have a specified guideline to work with, that I have no issue with as EU writers will need this sooner or later. So the guideline is LSM Revan, and LSF Exile. The guideline doesn't supersede the game.

The reason I am pointing this out is that players like mjpb3 and myself do not like people improperly using the word 'canon' when stating that Revan has to be what LEC states it is, quite the contrary. If LEC was so concerned with this issue they would have fixed the main characters (Revan's) gender for us in the game (Not unheard of in RPG's either), and TSL would have had a female Exile and Revan fixed as lightside male no matter what.

A guideline is a neccissary evil in this sometimes silly Star Wars EU business, but the word 'canon' is misused when it comes to games like this, especially when other people state it as "Well Revan is canonically a Male Lightsider" absolute schlock, the game says otherwise, and it would have been different if this were a true 'canon' issue.

That's all I am saying, and enough from me on this. ;)

Sabretooth
07-05-2006, 10:52 AM
What's your point?

That you should not trust a wiki wholeheartedly, regardless of what it says.

Char Ell
07-05-2006, 10:58 AM
OK, RedHawke. It's good to know I finally grasped what you were saying. :)

I still think this is a nonsensical way for LucasArts/Lucas Licensing to handle this situation. Unless they're going to use Revan or the Exile in a book, comic series, or some other publication where establishing a gender would pretty much be required, then IMO there is no need to establish a guideline. I mean, having The New Essential Guide To Droids as the source that establishes the guideline for The Exile's gender? Puh-lease! :roleyess:

I guess I'm just becoming better acquainted with the inconsistencies of the EU. :giveup: :snear:

Prime
07-05-2006, 11:45 AM
So the guideline is LSM Revan, and LSF Exile. The guideline doesn't supersede the game.Actually, any books or other media that discuss aspects of the game's story are just as much canon as the game itself. They are all c-canon.

That you should not trust a wiki wholeheartedly, regardless of what it says. Very true, but you will note that the information from the wiki in this case was backed up by an official source.

PoiuyWired
07-05-2006, 03:27 PM
Well, As said the Wiki thing is just a pointer. We are getting the "canonized Female Exile" from an OFFICIAL SOURCE as quoted by the wiki. And the validity of such OFFICIAL SOURCE is true, and existance of valid information is confirmed by at least some other posters.

So, the Female Exile is canonized Female not by a little Wiki but by an official book.


Actually, any books or other media that discuss aspects of the game's story are just as much canon as the game itself. They are all c-canon.


Well unless they are INFINITES. No Vader's force power does not come from his gloves, and no Skippy the Droid is not a Jedi, and no JarJar's daddy is not a seamen, and no Darkside does not give you Candies.

HerbieZ
07-05-2006, 06:08 PM
To be honest i don't think there shoudl be any canonical Revan or Exile or and bearing in mind, i know Kotor is Canon but i was never aware of Kotor 2 being classed as canon.

Shem
07-05-2006, 07:29 PM
I don't care one way or another what is canon for both games. Revan is male, Revan is female, blah, blah, blah. That shouldn't stop you from playing the game the way you want to. Just because the Exile is now canon as a female doesn't mean you have to choose a female each time you play it, or feel guilty about choosing a male character. That is why you have a choice. We play the game the way we want to. That is why we play with mods because we play the game the way we want to with the modifications we want to happen.

If it were up to me, I really like Revan being a light sider at the end of the game. It's a really great story if he/she is redeemed and atones for past mistakes. Fixing the galaxy after making a mess out of it great story writing. Dealing with the fact that Revan lost his/her memory and had to deal with the truth of finding out who he/she is and still make the right choice at the end to save the galaxy. The Good Vs Evil at the end, going against an old friend and former apprentice to stop it all makes the story deep.

As for TSL, I love the story better if the Exile (he or she) is a dark sider. Revenge on the Jedi Masters (especially Vrook) is my favorite way of playing. Especially since they screwed you over and still try to screw you over if you are a light sider. Especially Vrook who doesn't really care what the truth is as long as your character goes down (stripping the Force away). Now, some of the Jedi didn't like what happened, but they made their choice to go along with it. It was Atris and Vrook who wanted your character gone. I say there is no way you would want to be a Jedi because of it. In fact, you want them destroyed, but at the same time you save the galaxy from ultimate destruction because Nihilus is going to do that if he's not stopped. Plus the idea of being manipulated by Kreia and wanting her dead at the end is great for the dark side story.

Nema_Suneimi
07-05-2006, 10:40 PM
As for TSL, I love the story better if the Exile (he or she) is a dark sider. Revenge on the Jedi Masters (especially Vrook) is my favorite way of playing. Especially since they screwed you over and still try to screw you over if you are a light sider. Especially Vrook who doesn't really care what the truth is as long as your character goes down (stripping the Force away). Now, some of the Jedi didn't like what happened, but they made their choice to go along with it. It was Atris and Vrook who wanted your character gone. I say there is no way you would want to be a Jedi because of it. In fact, you want them destroyed, but at the same time you save the galaxy from ultimate destruction because Nihilus is going to do that if he's not stopped. Plus the idea of being manipulated by Kreia and wanting her dead at the end is great for the dark side story.

Wow, I'm convinced. =)

I had a hard time playing through as a dark-sider, could only creep a bit south of neutral, but it really does make sense for the Exile to wreak havoc on the last of the Order -- they're not really Jedi anymore, anyway. The only thing that bothers me is that you bring the rest of your party down with you -- and I just can't tolerate Atton's face getting ugly.

edit: Although I guess I can do all LS in general and just bring the hate on the Jedi masters.

Shem
07-06-2006, 12:17 AM
Wow, I'm convinced. =)The thing is, after playing it many times, I like the idea that my PC is torn between the light and the dark after his/her personal experiences, but when my PC sees the holo recording of the his/her trial, I start to lose it and want REVENGE! Then I want REVENGE on Kreia for playing me the whole time! "I'm here to kill you Kreia." I love it.

The only thing that bothers me is that you bring the rest of your party down with you -- and I just can't tolerate Atton's face getting ugly.I don't like the decay look anymore. I changed that now. Especially after seeing Revenge of the Sith.

I change it now that Atton has just Sith eyes instead.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8640/trap83ue.jpg

The thing is, only Atton shows any Dark Side Transitions in my version of the game now. Only because Bao-Dur, Mical (Disciple), Brianna (Handmaiden), and Mira freak out when you do dark side deeds, so they never truly fully embrace the dark side, no matter what the alignment says. So now they don't show transitions anymore in my version, just Atton. I would do it for Visas, but we don't see her eyes. ;)

As for my PC, same thing, just a Sith eye change also.
http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/3420/temp825bo.jpg

I also have Darth Sion have Sith eyes (or "eye" in his case).
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9831/sithlord65oc.jpg

Nema_Suneimi
07-06-2006, 01:06 AM
That looks a whole lot better, and even attractive, as far as Sith go. I checked out some mods online with Sith eyes but most include the facial scarring or the eyes are too neon yellow. Any chance I can snag your files for Atton or give me some tips on recoloring the eyes (so I can also make up some for my PC heads)? I'm assuming with the others you don't want to have altered faces you just paste over the changed face files with the usual ones?

RedHawke
07-06-2006, 02:14 AM
Actually, any books or other media that discuss aspects of the game's story are just as much canon as the game itself. They are all c-canon.
That's why I call the EU "silly" because the word 'canon' shouldn't really be used in regards to the EU at all. I don't know what EU rules they have now, but my admittedly old-fashioned (mid nineties) understanding is the only 'canon' for Star Wars is the Movies, the Movie Scripts, and the Radio Plays... all else is 'apocrypha'.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, but this is my understanding.

TheExileReturns
07-06-2006, 02:26 AM
When I play a dark side Exile, the focus of my rage and hatred is entirely the Jedi Council. I will still help the Republic throughout the game, even on Onderon during the Civil War, but will then turn on Kavar for his betrayal of me. Pathalogically, the Exile would never do anything to harm the Republic, after all that's why he left the order to go to war in the first place, to preserve the Republic. If he were to turn against it now it would make all of his previous sacrifice in vain. I would get my revenge on the Jedi council and then save Telos from the Sith menace of Nihilus.

Shem
07-06-2006, 03:17 AM
That looks a whole lot better, and even attractive, as far as Sith go. I checked out some mods online with Sith eyes but most include the facial scarring or the eyes are too neon yellow. Any chance I can snag your files for Atton or give me some tips on recoloring the eyes (so I can also make up some for my PC heads)? I'm assuming with the others you don't want to have altered faces you just paste over the changed face files with the usual ones?You know, Flashblade has done a much better job than I have. At least he's done a lot more work.

http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/10999.html

Try this one.

Also, if your interested in Sion having Sith eyes, I did make a mod that does that over a year ago.

http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/13543.html

Emperor Devon
07-06-2006, 06:31 AM
Bleah! Whether this is official or not, LA can't tell anyone how to play their games. Canon or no, my Exile will always be DSF, and my Revan will always be DSM.

Shem
07-06-2006, 06:37 AM
Bleah! Whether this is official or not, LA can't tell anyone how to play their games. Canon or no, my Exile will always be DSF, and my Revan will always be DSM.Of course. They're not telling you how to play the game. That is the misunderstanding people are having with this whole thing.

Nema_Suneimi
07-06-2006, 11:12 AM
You know, Flashblade has done a much better job than I have. At least he's done a lot more work.

http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/10999.html

Try this one.


Ah, thanks for pointing that one out. I was doing "sith head" and "sith eyes" in my searches so Flashblade didn't come up. Looking forward to a DS female play-through!

Jediphile
07-06-2006, 02:07 PM
Personally I think it's a shame, because I thought the male Exile plot was stronger. It had the Brianna/Atris "betrayal" which is now lost, and Mical was actually more interesting to me as Carth's secret agent.

Instead the official story now gets stuck with Mical, we have to accept Sion's love-sick nonsense for the female Exile as true (totally undermining his image as an unforgiving,hard-nosed Sith lord), and Brianna apparently just gets to die along with all her sisters, her potential totally spoiled - she's so uninteresting that the female Exile doesn't even get a chance to meet her upon her return to Telos... :(

Arátoeldar
07-06-2006, 11:36 PM
That's why I call the EU "silly" because the word 'canon' shouldn't really be used in regards to the EU at all. I don't know what EU rules they have now, but my admittedly old-fashioned (mid nineties) understanding is the only 'canon' for Star Wars is the Movies, the Movie Scripts, and the Radio Plays... all else is 'apocrypha'.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, but this is my understanding.

Ok I can understand that the EU is not canon. However shouldn't the Clone Wars Cartoon series be considered canon? :confused:

mimic666
07-06-2006, 11:43 PM
To me no but maybe Arátoeldar everything Star Wars always starts off in space "Clone Wars" doesn't, but also the end of Vol 2 ends off when Episode III Starts so I guess so.

Char Ell
07-06-2006, 11:49 PM
Instead the official story now gets stuck with Mical, we have to accept Sion's love-sick nonsense for the female Exile as true (totally undermining his image as an unforgiving,hard-nosed Sith lord), and Brianna apparently just gets to die along with all her sisters, her potential totally spoiled - she's so uninteresting that the female Exile doesn't even get a chance to meet her upon her return to Telos... to which I quote
Of course. They're not telling you how to play the game. That is the misunderstanding people are having with this whole thing.I think this statement pretty much sums it up.
Whether this is official or not, LA can't tell anyone how to play their games. Canon or no, my Exile will always be DSF, and my Revan will always be DSM.I expected nothing less from 2005's Most Evil Ahtonaut (and probably 2006's too) :D

mjpb3
07-07-2006, 12:07 AM
Of course. They're not telling you how to play the game. That is the misunderstanding people are having with this whole thing.
No, they may not be telling me how to play my game(s), but it does feel as if someone is hinting to me that the way I play is the WRONG way.

Char Ell
07-07-2006, 01:37 AM
^^^
I hear what you're saying, mjpb3, but TSL didn't make the choice of Revan's gender or alignment for you. The choice was still yours to make. As long as future KotOR games allow us to make the choice on this stuff then I'm not going to worry about what the SW history books say because all things considered, there is very little said about Revan and the Exile in SW chronicles in comparison to PT and OT characters. It's not like there are books and movies about Revan and the Exile along with the video games. It's the video games themselves that get the most attention, not NEGD or the TSL Chronicles. But like I said, as long as the KotOR games allow the player to make the choice where Revan and the Exile are concerned then why should we sweat the small stuff, right?

But if the next KotOR doesn't allow the player to choose (assuming Revan and/or the Exile are involved in the story)... I would be truly disappointed if that were the case.

Jae Onasi
07-07-2006, 01:48 AM
Statement on the new 6 degrees of Star Wars Canon

We, at WookieWikiWarrickWicketpedia, wish to clear up the confusion of ‘Canon’ in Star Wars by instituting a new classification system on how to rank the different Star Wars and Star Wars EU materials. This will replace the Canon-a, b, and c system, which was becoming just too confusing, resulting in many emails from forum administrators and moderators who were ‘having to deal with too damn many threads on arguments over Canon’.

1st degree Canon shall be The Movies. Radio adaptations, so long as they include voices from the Original Actors (and Actresses) shall also be 1st degree Canon. The Screenplays are also 1st degree Canon, but only if George Lucas put a ‘GL’ on every page. The official soundtracks are 1st degree Canon, because John Williams has included the use of both the bassoon and the triangle in his music, and quite possibly the krummhorn. Anything spoken by George Lucas is first degree Canon, including those more mundane statements like ‘I want to order a pizza’ and ‘I have to find the nearest restroom.’

2nd degree Canon shall include those radio adaptations that deviate from the script slightly but still maintain the ‘True Spirit’ of the movies. Those radio adaptations that include the voices of Harrison Ford or Liam Neeson shall automatically be changed to 1st degree Canon, because their voices are really sexy. Those adaptations that include excess amounts of Jar-Jar Binks or Ewok cuteness shall automatically be reduced to 6th degree Canon or less.

3rd degree Canon shall include any books that George Lucas decides shall be 3rd degree, which is pretty much everything else not in the 1st and 2nd degrees. It’s his world—if he wants to say a book is 1st degree or 6th degree, we shall bow to his greater wisdom. The exception are the Vong books, which shall be reduced to 6th degree or the 9th circle of Dante’s Inferno, whichever comes last. All Star Wars games are 3rd degree Canon. The Knights of the Old Republic games, because they are Really Righteous, are 2nd degree Canon. We hereby declare all permutations of Revan and Exile to be Canon, because trying to pick just one is really p!$$ing off the fans. The Star Wars Lego games would be 4th degree Canon because of the ‘cutesy factor’, except for the fact that my son really likes the games, so they stay at 3rd degree.

4th degree Canon includes any comic books. Graphic novels remain at 3rd degree because ‘graphic novel’ sounds more cool than ‘comic book.’ The exception is the Knights of the Old Republic comic book series, which is destined to become a Graphic Novel when bound together, and because they’ve drawn Zayne Carrick really cute. It’s at least 3rd degree, and we might even make that series 2nd degree if sales continue to be good.

5th degree Canon includes all fan-fiction, unless they are “Really Good,” which, by our definition, is anything with over 1,000 views on LucasForums or over 15 thumbs-ups on kotorfanmedia. If they’re “Really Good”, then they can, at the option of the administrators, moderators, machievelli, or the author, move to 4th degree. The exception is if the spam-per-view ratio approaches 1:82, in which case the fanfic shall be declared ‘spammy’ and the fic drops to 6th degree. Action figures are 5th degree Canon, unless they involve Yoda, Han Solo, or Luke Skywalker. These are 1st degree Canon because I like them and because Frank Oz rules.

6th degree Canon includes any speculative posts on any forums. It also includes any non-speculative posts, comments, jokes, pictures, and other written, visual, or aural media. Anything else not already specified shall be 6th degree Canon, unless the author finds something she really likes, in which case the Degree of Canon may be altered accordingly. Forum posts that are written by administrators or moderators shall be whatever Degree of Canon they desire, because the author feels the need to suck up, unless George Lucas declares otherwise, because his 1st degree is more equal than everyone else’s 1st degree.

We hope this clears up any confusion about Canon. If you have any further questions, please send an email to our help center at ‘we won’t answer it anyway.idiocy'. We will do our best to make sure that the answer to your questions are answered with as much obfuscation as possible, preferably by someone who does not even speak your language.

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit:
Caveat: This is not directed at anyone in particular, but at the idea that there not only is 'canon' but now 'levels of canon.' In my personal view of the world, there is only 'Lucas' and 'Everyone Else' if we have to make that distinction in the first place. I'm particularly amused at the idea that we're even using the word 'canon' to describe all this, as if this carries the same importance as holy scriptures of the major religions....
I say, just enjoy the games the way you want. :)

RedHawke
07-07-2006, 02:11 AM
^^^^
*Spits water all over keyboard!* :lol:

Shem
07-07-2006, 03:34 AM
No, they may not be telling me how to play my game(s), but it does feel as if someone is hinting to me that the way I play is the WRONG way.Then I think you're taking it too seriously then.

mjpb3
07-07-2006, 04:12 AM
Then I think you're taking it too seriously then.
Perhaps. Or perhaps I am one of many who don't like being told that no matter what I did/do in my game(s) I am playing it wrong.

Hmmm, yeah I can see how that is such a light subject to just let go.

I won't write what I am really thinking, so I'll just let this drop.

Shem
07-07-2006, 04:37 AM
Perhaps. Or perhaps I am one of many who don't like being told that no matter what I did/do in my game(s) I am playing it wrong.

Hmmm, yeah I can see how that is such a light subject to just let go.

I won't write what I am really thinking, so I'll just let this drop.The biggest reason why I believe you shouldn’t take it seriously is because of comics and stories written about the KOTOR games. I do recall reading about the characters of K1 on the official site...

(to list a few)
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/carthonasi/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/bastilashan/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/canderousordo/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/missionvao/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/zaalbar/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/calonord/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthbandon/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthmalak/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/admiralkarath/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/davikkang/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/juhani/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/joleebindo/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/t3m4/index.html
http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/hk47/index.html


...and noticing how vague the talk about Revan. I do know why of course because they didn't want to imply anything like gender, race, and what path Revan chose just in case it offended anyone (just like it is doing), but I do admit I was a little frustrated with the storylines at times and wished there was a bio of Revan and more to the KOTOR story.

In order to do that, you had to make a Canon Revan. And I believe the intention wasn’t to make people feel like they were playing it the wrong way, far from it. If that was the case, writing a Canon Revan would have been done a long time ago. I believe it was delayed because they didn’t want to offend anyone.

Just remember it’s all make believe anyway, and the games are made so you can enjoy it and it is also designed so you can make your own mods to continue the enjoyment. The comics are done for reader enjoyment of KOTOR and in order to do that and make them good, a Canon Revan had to be made.

RedHawke
07-07-2006, 05:33 AM
In order to do that, you had to make a Canon Revan. And I believe the intention wasn’t to make people feel like they were playing it the wrong way, far from it. If that was the case, writing a Canon Revan would have been done a long time ago. I believe it was delayed because they didn’t want to offend anyone.

The comics are done for reader enjoyment of KOTOR and in order to do that and make them good, a Canon Revan had to be made.
The issue with this Shem is the usage of the word 'canon'… A guideline for Revan for fellow EU writers I know is a necessary evil, but when you use the word 'canon' this implies exactly what mjpb3 and others take offence with. The usage of 'canon' means that others will take this as the only way the game should be played, and will correct or harass those who dare to use "her" in reference to Revan.

Hence, this is why I call the EU silly, especially when this kind of silly thing rears its ugly head. All of the EU is technically 'apocrypha' anyway. ;)

*Looks at Prime staring ominously in this direction... Put that hatchet down!* :hatchrun:

:D

Shem
07-07-2006, 06:14 AM
The issue with this Shem is the usage of the word 'canon'… A guideline for Revan for fellow EU writers I know is a necessary evil, but when you use the word 'canon' this implies exactly what mjpb3 and others take offence with. The usage of 'canon' means that others will take this as the only way the game should be played, and will correct or harass those who dare to use "her" in reference to Revan.I understand your point. And I hope I haven't sound insensitive to people's feelings on the matter when I say not to take it seriously.

I do see the problem with people thinking they have to correct you what Revan was (Force Alignment, race, gender, etc), and it's too bad that someone would actually throw that into someone's face. That's another reason why we shouldn't take this personally and remind them nicely (it may be hard at times if the person was rude about it) that Revan is a choice in the KOTOR game and if that wasn't the case, those choices wouldn't be there to begin with. It wouldn't be a role playing game if it didn't do that.

I testify strongly that nobody should ever feel guilty about how they choose their Revan or Exile in either KOTOR games because these games are for our enjoyment. Revan and the Exile are who you make them to be and don't let someone else tell you otherwise. :D

Jae Onasi
07-07-2006, 10:09 AM
The authors of EU stuff could solve the problem by saying "in my novel, I've chosen to make Revan DSF. YMMV." Or whatever they've chosen.
Seriously, why have a 'canon' character, anyway?
I could maybe see LA wanting to say "We like it when 'The Good Guys Win,' so we're going to prefer LS characters. However, the determination of gender is up to each author in those situations where there is a choice because of the game."
As long as the author keeps it consistent within a specific book/series, I'm happy. I think specifying a gender/alignment actually limits the creativity outside of the game. There are plenty of amazing fics out there written for a DSF Revan or DSM Exile. There are plenty of continuity breaks between series (and even in the movies themselves), so I don't think changing gender/alignment would be earth-shattering. Different, yes, life-altering, no.

mjpb3
07-07-2006, 11:35 AM
I do see the problem with people thinking they have to correct you what Revan was (Force Alignment, race, gender, etc), and it's too bad that someone would actually throw that into someone's face.
That is exactly one of the reasons why I do take offense to a "canonization" of either Revan, Exile or any other customizable PC...

On MANY sites I won't name when I refer to my Revan as female (with her, she etc...) I get jumped all over and told, "Revan is canonically male, blah blah blah". But now that the Exile is "canonically" female I still get jumped on for referring to Exile as female and told, "Well, the Exile can be whomever you want, blah blah blah". So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?

Jediphile
07-07-2006, 12:51 PM
That is exactly one of the reasons why I do take offense to a "canonization" of either Revan, Exile or any other customizable PC...

On MANY sites I won't name when I refer to my Revan as female (with her, she etc...) I get jumped all over and told, "Revan is canonically male, blah blah blah". But now that the Exile is "canonically" female I still get jumped on for referring to Exile as female and told, "Well, the Exile can be whomever you want, blah blah blah". So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?

Whatever you want. I've always played and referred to Revan as male, but several people have referred to Revan as female, and I'm not about to tell them they can't. They have every right to do so, because I'm not about to stop referring to both Revan and Exile as male either.

Nema_Suneimi
07-07-2006, 01:21 PM
I always start out my posts with "my female Revan" or "my female Exile" and then go from there.

I was kind of upset with the canonical male Revan because I love the Carth romance so much, but now I just imagine that if I were in the SW universe (I have a characterization built up and everything), it means Carth would be all available for *me*. I wonder if I can mod myself into the games...

jaredhimself31
07-07-2006, 03:43 PM
I checked in my copy of the NEW ESSENTIAL STAR WARS CHRONOLOGY and they only refer to the Exile once as a Jedi who was cast out of the order. and thats it they never actually state the Exile's gender. And the only characters that are recognized in that certain passage are Mandalore, T3 and HL-47. none of the other characters(ie Briana or Mical are recognized as official cannon at least not in the CHRONOLOGY)

But if you go by what is on the Cover and such its usuall a LSM Exile with a Blue blade.
But thats exactly the problem with Cannon related topics unless its related to the two trilogy's alot of it's based on people's opinions on what is and what isn't cannon. So its bound to create some interesting debates as it usually does

Please use the "edit this" function to the lower right instead of double-posting. ~ ChAiNz.2da

Shem
07-07-2006, 07:32 PM
That is exactly one of the reasons why I do take offense to a "canonization" of either Revan, Exile or any other customizable PC...

On MANY sites I won't name when I refer to my Revan as female (with her, she etc...) I get jumped all over and told, "Revan is canonically male, blah blah blah". But now that the Exile is "canonically" female I still get jumped on for referring to Exile as female and told, "Well, the Exile can be whomever you want, blah blah blah". So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?I always try to make sure if I refer to Revan's gender, I refer to Revan is he/she. That way I'm keeping the door open to what Revan can be. You can never go wrong if you refer to Revan as he/she, or his/her.

Like...

Darth Revan and his/her apprentice, Darth Malak. It works great and nobody can throw that in your face. :D

Char Ell
07-07-2006, 10:31 PM
The authors of EU stuff could solve the problem by saying "in my novel, I've chosen to make Revan DSF. YMMV." Or whatever they've chosen.If there were multiple publications that had Revan and/or the Exile with varying genders and alignments then people would be confused. I think we will always have an element who clamors for a set gender/alignment for these characters and won't be satisfied until they have one.
I think specifying a gender/alignment actually limits the creativity outside of the game. There are plenty of amazing fics out there written for a DSF Revan or DSM Exile.While I agree this limits creativity I don't think limits such as this are bad per se, just natural. What if LA/LL were to support a "parallel universe" approach for this particular segment of SW history? In this scenario Revan could be DSF, DSM, LSF or LSM. Writers would be advised to pick one and stick with it but should also have set guidelines about when the parallel story lines come back together. That may be workable for one character but when you throw in a second from the same time period into the mix (Exile) then you have to consider all the permutations this would create. For every Revan you would need to have four Exiles. Talk about a management nightmare. I don't think many people would go for such a concept. People just want the one history record to refer to. And besides the EU has enough continuity issues as it is.
There are plenty of continuity breaks between series (and even in the movies themselves), so I don't think changing gender/alignment would be earth-shattering. Different, yes, life-altering, no.Let us not forget the power of the retcon! :D
So you tell me, what is the correct way to refer to Revan and/or Exile when it seems no one can make up their minds about canon --- besides always having to be "politically correct" and write s/he?I think you already know that most people already have their Revan and Exile's gender locked in. I try to avoid the whole gender question by using their respective names instead of a gender descriptor like he, she, or he/she. This practice can be challenging and weird sounding at times but it's what I like to do. For example: Revan ignited Revan's lightsaber and issued a challenge to Darth Malak, Revan's former apprentice.

Point Man
07-09-2006, 12:22 AM
I've never had any problem thinking of Revan or the Exile in any of the possible permutations. It's just a role-playing game where I get to play the character in any way I want, and I play it in all the different ways. I couldn't imagine wanting to play it only one way. That's the great thing about RPG's. You can live the experience different ways.

The Source
07-09-2006, 12:09 PM
After reading that Wikipedia outline above, I had to burn my computer screne. Who the hell is smoking what over there. I think we should make a Star Wars: Fan-Fiction with Jesus in it, and make sure it gets over 1,000 hits. Jesus will become canon. Lol...

What happened to the days when 'canon' was just from the movies, movie-books, and radio adaptations?

I agree with Onasi's last statements, and here it is:
In my personal view of the world, there is only 'Lucas' and 'Everyone Else' if we have to make that distinction in the first place.
Canon = George Lucas
Extra Entertainment = EU = Everyone Else

Jae Onasi
07-09-2006, 01:02 PM
I didn't need to smoke anything to come up with the WookieWikiWarrickWicketpedia entry. All I needed was a lot of insomnia, excess amounts of caffeine, some sugar, and a little too much time on my hands. :D
Jesus can be whatever degree(s) of Canon that He desires. :)

The Source
07-09-2006, 04:43 PM
Lol... Go Jesus!

Wow. You must have not slept for days. :)

Thaeos
07-09-2006, 10:48 PM
I have to say that the Jedi Exile will always be DS for me, and I believe that is the best option in terms of story. However while I usually play Revan as a DSM it doesn't matter to me as much if the 'official' version is LS, as both are gratifying experiences and have excellent stories, even if I prefer killing all those damn Rakata, just because I can ...

Zerimar Nyliram
07-12-2006, 12:55 PM
Personally, I don't like this because: 1. The love quests. Brianna is so much cooler than Mical. 2. The bond between Kreia and the exile. It just seems more natural if he is a male, given the way she talks to him.

Lucas Film obviously made this decision to throw some variaty back into the games. Of the three customizable characters--Reven, the exile and Jaden Korr--they needed to make at least one female, because they had all been male up till now. Personally, I think it should've been Jaden, because the female voice actor is so much better than her losy male counterpart. (And she was played by Jennifer Hale--Bastila--for crying out loud!)

Jae Onasi
07-12-2006, 02:42 PM
Lol... Go Jesus!

Wow. You must have not slept for days. :)

Me+insomnia+caffeine=unique outcomes

I'm going to give 'canon' the appropriate attention it deserves, which means turning on the computer, sitting back in my chair and propping up my feet, making sure I have coffee and/or diet Pepsi along with something decadent like a slice of Giordano's stuffed crust sausage pizza (the hamburger version is also fabulous for the non-pork folks) and/or some homemade brownies, and popping in my CD to play whatever version of Exile/Revan happens to be in the latest savegame.
And if someone tries to tell me that a certain version of Exile or Revan is _the_ only way to play because of 'canon' and that I'm wrong to do it any other way, I'll tell them, very politely and respectfully of course, to p*ss off. :)

Zerimar Nyliram
07-12-2006, 02:47 PM
Yeah, I kind of like it better with their genders and Force affiliation being a mystery, rather than one version being canonical and all the others being apocryphal. That was kind of the point of these games: we don't know the true identities of these characters or the outcome of their lives.

Damn you, Leland Chin!

Char Ell
07-12-2006, 11:23 PM
I've never had any problem thinking of Revan or the Exile in any of the possible permutations. It's just a role-playing game where I get to play the character in any way I want, and I play it in all the different ways. I couldn't imagine wanting to play it only one way. That's the great thing about RPG's. You can live the experience different ways. I couldn't agree more.

The point I wanted to make though is that while this approach works for the game itself the concept becomes much more challenging and/or confusing when trying to use it in novels, comic books, etc. Hence my belief that it would be better for LucasCo. to avoid extensive use of Revan and the Exile in reading publications, or specifically use that locks the characters into a gender and/or alignment. However this doesn't seem to be what LucasCo. is doing. :indif:

PoiuyWired
07-13-2006, 09:29 PM
Well, I think it has more to do with the non-PC characters really. Even if you assume Revan/Exile does not do any romance and does not kill any of them unless necessary, there is womewhat a ndde to conclude their general fate. Obviously we can always count on the "no body" theory to let characters survive, or some freak luck (Boba Style) But some kind of fuideline for the era is needed. I don think Male/Female matters in this case(since even with Revan it seems the non Romance way is chosen), but DS/LS difference does matter.

Obvious things that would interfere with the history include how republic - starforge battle ends up, and such, and in this aspact Exile makes less of a difference (And I am not going to do any Mical scumbag complain here).

Now, for the fun part. Would kotor3 PC be the spawnling of Revan and Exile??

Point Man
07-14-2006, 01:13 AM
...it would be better for LucasCo. to avoid extensive use of Revan and the Exile in reading publications:indif:
I agree. I want The Kotor characters to stay in the games. However, I can see that with the voracious appetites for new material that StarWarsPhreaks (TM) have, it is a gold mine waiting to be harvested. Money will dictate that the books get written.

Swinneh
07-27-2006, 02:35 PM
i always saw the exile as male, seeing as in all the promo advertisements and in the manual its the skinhead guy, just mad sense, but now female exile.. hmmm, i dunno, not being sexist but male jedi usually are better storywise.

I suppose it would be refreshing that theres a female jedi tho, but the fact that the whole jedi order from kotor2 to the films was built by the exile, she/he's a huge charecter.

Ive always wonderd which class fits the storyline the best, im pretty sure the storyline is bias towards a light side jedi, but im never sure if the exile was a weapon master or jedi master. It would make sense to be a jedi master because of her strong force bonds, that would indicate a high ifinity with the feeling side of the force rather than dueling, being able to feed of others force powers just seems the kind of thing a jedi master would do. Also rebuilding the order would seem best assigned to a jedi master. Also she/he was a general away from the battlefield, in a ship above the planets with bao dur as far as we known, so again, not big on the action.

Then again, the game seems to lean towards the lightsaber style of fighting, especially as when you become a 'jedi master' in the games turning point, you get force enlightenment, which grants you the 3 main lightsaber duling powers.

throughout star wars tho ive found that the jedi use lightsabers, and the sith rely more on force powers, maybe its just me.

What does everyone else think? Im not asking which you prefer, but which you think fits the story more :D

p.s sorry for long rant, i know its an rpg and its up to the player what goes, i just like to picture how the whole story went down :)

Jediphile
07-27-2006, 04:22 PM
I actually agree that we need more female jedi protagonists. I just don't think the Exile should be one, because the male Exile's story is simply stronger IMHO. I mean, which is the better story - Mical's story of leaving the order and dealing with his feelings for the female Exile or Brianna's "betrayal" of her duties to Atris, as they both struggle for the Exile's heart? I definitely liked Brianna's story best, and with a female Exile, it just doesn't exist.

One thing I also really hate in the female Exile's story is how Sion goes from being a scary, powerful sith lord (in the male story) to being a love-sick little puppy-dog who lusts after the female Exile like a 13-year old boy, completely devastating his dark and sinister image :(

jedi3112
07-27-2006, 05:27 PM
Several things to say about this really.

First, it's a wiki, a completely unreliable source.

Second, there's no such thing as a canon Revan or canon Exile, at least not for Star Wars. They don't appear in the movies and as such are not canon. They are also in absolutely NO way relevant to the movies.

Third, IF you regard KOTOR as a seperate series, the games itself would be canon and everything that can happen in the games is therefore canon as well, leaving us with several Revans and Exiles. As well as several histories.

Zerimar Nyliram
07-27-2006, 05:37 PM
I'm sorry, Jedi3112, but you are wrong.

Firstly, the source is not the Wiki. They just backed it up. The source comes from The New Essential Guide to Droids, wherein HK-47's and T3-M4's articles refer to the Exile as "she," "her" and a "heroine."

Yes, there is such a thing as a canon Revan and a canon Exile. The Holocron Community accepts them on the same level as the rest of the EU. Just like George Lucas accepts the EU as factual, and even praised KOTOR I and II as having really happened.

No, there is only one canonical version of Reven, the Exile and Jaden, which Lucas Film's Holocron Community has chosen. Apparently, they choose one gender, one allignment and one ending as canonical, while the rest are considered apocryphal. (One of the earliest examples of a noncanonical ending is the dark side ending to Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.)


Other than that, someone mentioned that there should be at least one canonical female character based on a customizable game character. For reasons stated above, I believe that it should not have been the Exile. I think it should have been Jaden Korr. The female voice actress was infinitely better than the male voice actor. (She was Jennifer Hale--Bastila Shan--for crying out loud!)

jedi3112
07-27-2006, 07:44 PM
I'm sorry, Jedi3112, but you are wrong.

You will find that it is YOU who are mistaken.


Firstly, the source is not the Wiki. They just backed it up. The source comes from The New Essential Guide to Droids, wherein HK-47's and T3-M4's articles refer to the Exile as "she," "her" and a "heroine."

The source mentioned is wikipedia, and it may or may not have come from other sources, but IO'm not going to backtrack all of those for reliability. Anyway, we're not discussing wikipedia's reliability.


Yes, there is such a thing as a canon Revan and a canon Exile. The Holocron Community accepts them on the same level as the rest of the EU. Just like George Lucas accepts the EU as factual, and even praised KOTOR I and II as having really happened.

That means there is no canon Revan or Exile, no matter what anybody said. If it's not in the movies it's not canon. So unless you can point out a scene where they are relevant, it's not canon.


No, there is only one canonical version of Reven, the Exile and Jaden, which Lucas Film's Holocron Community has chosen. Apparently, they choose one gender, one allignment and one ending as canonical, while the rest are considered apocryphal. (One of the earliest examples of a noncanonical ending is the dark side ending to Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.)

Those communities do not concern me. As said before there's nothing in the movies to even hint at their existance. Even more so, I seem to remember that the devs picked the time, because nothing you would do would matter at the time of the movies. Even if you destroy the Republic, it wouldn't matter, the Sith Empire has time enough to collapse and another Republic can easily be created at such a time (I think Jolee tells you something like this as well).

Zerimar Nyliram
07-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Oh, I see. You're one of those anti-EU Nazis. There's just no convincing you people.

We're not questioning Wikipedia's reliability. I know for a fact that that information comes from The New Essential Guide to Droids, which I have looked at in the mall and have verified that the information is provided therein.

Secondly, yes, the EU is not on the same level of canonicity as the movies, (the movies are G-Canon while the EU is C-Canon) however the EU is endorsed and controlled by Lucas Film and George Lucas himself.

Whether you choose to accept the EU or not is your perogative, but if you are trying to argue that the KOTOR games are any less canon than the written EU then you are wrong, because Lucas Film accepts it on the same level of C-Canon. Now, you can either choose to be a movie purist--which is fine with me--or you may not. If you are not, however, and do accept the EU as authentic, then disgarding KOTOR is completely unfounded and nonsensical.

If you're a movie purist, then what are you doing here? If your accept only the movies as canon, why are you here to argue how noncanonical Reven and the Exile are? If you chose to be a movie purist, then don't dabble in the EU and try to explain certain things away. The big guys at Lucas Film know more about Star Wars chronology than you do.

Char Ell
07-28-2006, 12:20 AM
Ahem...
If you're a movie purist, then what are you doing here? If your accept only the movies as canon, why are you here to argue how noncanonical Reven and the Exile are?Well said, Zerimar Nyliram. I had the same question.
That means there is no canon Revan or Exile, no matter what anybody said. If it's not in the movies it's not canon. So unless you can point out a scene where they are relevant, it's not canon.:eyeraise: Not too sure where your concept of Star Wars canon is coming from but it's definitely not in line with how Lucas Licensing handles the SW universe. The below quote is from the database content administrator for Lucas Licensing's Holocron continuity database.
The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary "S" continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut.
- from http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=152583&start=15
Personally I go with the idea that the games themselves take precedence. Yes, I too read the GOTO, T3, and HK articles in TNEGD where the Exile is referred to using feminine descriptors. Until we get some other C-canon sources that support that though (e.g. future KotOR game, novel, or comic book) I've decided to pretty much ignore TNEGD's articles. I fail to understand why Daniel Wallace found sanction to establish the Exile's gender in a droid guide but used gender-neutral terms in the SW history guide (TNEC) published only a year earlier. Seriously, how lame is that? :disaprove

Jae Onasi
07-28-2006, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by Tasty Taste a.k.a. Leland Chee
The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary "S" continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut.
- from http://forums.starwars.com/thread.j...152583&start=15

I think my 6 degrees of canon was less confusing. :D

RedHawke
07-28-2006, 12:40 AM
Here are the facts though, all the non game writings and the game itself is all C-Level Canon, so it is quite impossible to call Revan 'canonically' Male LS, and The Exile 'canonically' Female LS... as they are the same level of EU canon.

So the argument is moot.

Source: Prime our very own EU aficionado. ;)

Davinq
07-28-2006, 01:08 AM
oh darn, and I was just about to make a point...
Whaddever, here goes:
For the Exile, Female Canon was probably LA's original plan, because (Though it pains me to say it) Brianna's story was pretty hollow compared to Mical's, strengthening my belief.

Char Ell
07-28-2006, 01:35 AM
I think my 6 degrees of canon was less confusing. :DYour version was most definitely more entertaining. ;)

Here are the facts though, all the non game writings and the game itself is all C-Level Canon, so it is quite impossible to call Revan 'canonically' Male LS, and The Exile 'canonically' Female LS... as they are the same level of EU canon. Sounds like we have a canonical conundrum. :D

not like there aren't a lot of these in the EU...
So the argument is moot.:rofl: Whew!
:lol: heh-heh-heh.
Oh, 'scuse me for a sec.
***wipes tears from eyes*** :animelol:
I don't mean to be rude but this statement just nailed my funny bone. :) Anybody remember the SNL skit back in the day where they spoofed Jesse Jackson using the word moot? Good times...

jedi3112
07-28-2006, 08:38 AM
I don't buy that whole degrees crap, it's either canon or it's not. Now in SW, the leading party would be the movies, however when writing about KOTOR, the games and all their possibilities are the leading party. There's nothing wrong with EU though, it's just not canon (unless the claim is supported by te movies, wich would make it appear in the movies as well). Therefore it's neither true nor false and it could have happened but at the same time it could not have happened. As such it remains a mystery, or, if you prefer, a legend.

Jediphile
07-28-2006, 09:41 AM
KotOR *IS* Expanded Universe! And most stuff released is considered canon, including the comic books and novels. Lots of people consider only the movies to be "real" Star Wars, but as far as Lucasarts is concerned, the New Jedi Order novels and the Tales of the Jedi comic books are just as "genuine" as the movies are - that's why you can see Naga Sadow's attack on Coruscant depicted in Palpatine's office in "Revenge of the Sith".

The only things that very clearly are not canon are some of the Star Wars Tales comic books (which has very odd and alternative stories), the Infinities comic books, and the non-canon alternatives in the games.

I prefer the male Exile for various reasons, but according Lucasarts, the Exile is now officially female. I think that's a mistake myself. I agree more with those who think that a female jedi protagonist should have been Jaden Korr - made more sense to me, too.

For the Exile, Female Canon was probably LA's original plan, because (Though it pains me to say it) Brianna's story was pretty hollow compared to Mical's, strengthening my belief.

Mical had a story? I must have missed that, when I played female Exile - all I got was some crummy sob-story about how he felt the need to leave the order after not getting the Exile as the master he loved so much, and which - of course - would never have been a problem in the order... And which made me think of Bruce Willis in "The Kid", when he says, "let's call the WHA-mbulance"...

Brianna's story never seemed hollow to me. Quite the contrary.

EDIT: Actually, I've been thinking of doing a KotOR2 T-shirt after the Exile's gender was defined. It should read: "I played the canonical female Exile in KotOR2, and all I got was a lousy sob-story from the Disciple" :laughing:

Char Ell
07-28-2006, 11:26 AM
I don't buy that whole degrees crap, it's either canon or it's not.Indeed. Your SW canon views brought to mind the following:
Darth Vader: If you're not with me, then you are my enemy.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Only a Sith deals in absolutes. :saberb: I will do what I must.I just couldn't resist. :D

It's readily apparent that you have your own unique interpretation of the SW universe, separate and apart from the information the people at Lucas companies (LucasFilm, Lucas Licensing, LucasArts) have provided for the SW fanbase. In essence you're saying there is only the movies (not even G-canon) and everything else doesn't matter. So if George Lucas was quoted saying, "Darth Plagueis was Anakin Skywalker's father." Then I would expect you to respond, "Sorry Georgie. It wasn't in the movies so it's only in your imagination." :smirk2:

As for the Exile's gender, I'm still in the camp that supports individual interpretation on that one.

RobQel-Droma
07-28-2006, 12:16 PM
Well, I am not going to go back through the whole thread, but I'll just offer my view. I don't really mind the female canon thing, but I have one problem; Mical vs. Brianna. :xp:

But it doesn't really matter, though, does it? I mean, it's up to your interpretation when you play the game, it's not as if they make you play a female or male because that gender is "canon."

There's nothing wrong with EU though, it's just not canon (unless the claim is supported by te movies, wich would make it appear in the movies as well). Therefore it's neither true nor false and it could have happened but at the same time it could not have happened. As such it remains a mystery, or, if you prefer, a legend.

Forgive me, but.... that is one of the *stupidest* things I have heard yet. Where in all of the galaxy did you get the idea that EU can not equal canon? Since you go on the point of "if it's not supported by movies it didn't happen but it could have.... it remains a mystery blah blah.... (that makes no sense, by the way)" then where can you back up this view? KOTOR is an LA game, Lucas has mentioned it - how can that make this game not canon at all? Do you have some "higher view" than the rest of us, including GL, or what? :xp:

Davinq
07-28-2006, 06:57 PM
You're still making no sense jedi3112. I'll use small words so that you'll understand. If it's published by GL, it's canon.

PoiuyWired
07-28-2006, 07:50 PM
I think kotor2 REALLY needs to be like kotor1 where you get to kill most of your party members if you go DS. Then you get to remove pervert mike's bodyparts bits by bits wif your trusty red saber as he deserves... Also giving that option to kotor2 would also ensure that lowlife excuse of a sub-sentient won't comeback to ANY future game/story of any form ever again.

Henz
07-28-2006, 07:57 PM
Darth Vader: If you're not with me, then you are my enemy.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

hehe How stupidly contradictory.

jedi3112
07-28-2006, 08:32 PM
I think kotor2 REALLY needs to be like kotor1 where you get to kill most of your party members if you go DS. Then you get to remove pervert mike's bodyparts bits by bits wif your trusty red saber as he deserves... Also giving that option to kotor2 would also ensure that lowlife excuse of a sub-sentient won't comeback to ANY future game/story of any form ever again.

You forgot to mention disembowelment. I think you should have been able to slice him open, and hang him by the wrists. Let evrything hang out of his body. BTW, have you seen Hanibal (not the movie about the general from Carthage, but the serial killer), it had a nice scene in it, sort of what I mentioned. Looks suitable for him.

Apart from that, nothing that's published by anybody makes it automatically canon. They can't just go contradict themself, something that George Lucas is quite capable of with all his licencing.

And the only thing to be called canon is what happened in the movies, the rest is ALL EU, so there is no way to tell whether it's true or not. There are simply not enough people who have read everything. and when discussing SW, there is no reason to assume that they have read those sources. There is reason to assume that they have seen the movies. Doing otherwise is pretty much the same as telling that some sort of god created the universe, earth or anything you name, just because some fairy tale states that, while it is clear that the majority of the people have not read that piece of fiction.

On the other hand, some of the EU fundamentalists have the same reasoning skills as a brick wall. To clarify, those are the guys that keep telling that because GL said so it's true, eventhough there's nothing to support GL's claims, or the claims of anybody else for that matter.

Oh, and for the people that just figurted out I am a Sith Lord

Don't you think you might just be a wee bit late?

Apart from that, there are thousands of Sith everywhere, just to name a few there's
Obi-Wan Kenobi ('only a Sith deals in absolutes' is an absolute by itself)
Yoda ('do or do not, there is no try' is an absolute)
and off course
Vader
Palpatine
Maul
Tyrannus
And since we're on an KOTOR forum
Revan
Malak
Sion
Traya
the other guy whose name I forgot
Even here on Earth there's
Revan (well me) J/K
and tons of others, but I would still be typing tomorrow if I were to list them all

Char Ell
07-28-2006, 11:29 PM
hehe How stupidly contradictory Yeah, I see what you mean but I still thought it was one of the best lines in ROTS. :D
Oh, and for the people that just figurted out I am a Sith Lord

Don't you think you might just be a wee bit late? Late for what? I don't care if you consider yourself a Sith Lord. There are lots of people on these forums that like to assume DS personas. More power to ya. But if you ever decide to go with a DS screen name to more accurately represent yourself you can do so in the Need a name change? Post here! thread.

For everybody else - Play your Exile however you want. The choice is yours!

deathdisco
07-29-2006, 02:10 AM
Someone has a problem discerning fact from opinoin. :disaprove
LucasFilm/Lucas Licensing has established canon guidlines for a reason.
Remember the SW:EU is a take what you want and leave what you don't situation... just like a salad bar in a resturant.

Mosier
07-29-2006, 05:14 AM
To clarify, those are the guys that keep telling that because GL said so it's true, eventhough there's nothing to support GL's claims, or the claims of anybody else for that matter.



:eyes8: What in the HECK are you talking about?!?!?!? IT'S HIS UNIVERSE FER CRYING OUT LOUD! If that doesn't make him authoritative what the hell does? Want to know why Darth Vader is Luke's father? BECAUSE GL SAID SO. Maybe I'm missing something, but what you said makes no sense to me.

jedi3112
07-29-2006, 12:25 PM
Want to know why Darth Vader is Luke's father? BECAUSE GL SAID SO.

You obviously haven't even seen the movies. I could point things out, but that would spoil the movies if you were to watch them someday.

Jediphile
07-29-2006, 01:48 PM
You obviously haven't even seen the movies. I could point things out, but that would spoil the movies if you were to watch them someday.

The problem is that you seem to claim that only the movies can be canon. But only a few comics and novels and the alternate non-canon outcomes of the games are outside canon. Everything else is canon, including all the EU. Because if something contradicts GL's vision, it gets rewritten or axed before it's even released. The Tales of the Jedi comic books are canon. The male LS Revan ending of KotOR1 is canon. The Dark Empire comic books are canon. The New Jedi Order novels are canon. Why? Because it was all approved by Lucasarts before it was published.

Davinq
07-29-2006, 01:55 PM
He doesn't take a hit, this guy. :blast5:
As said by one special Mandalorian bounty hunter. jedi, why are you so adamant that the movies and the movies alone are canon, when they are not the only publicly released production by GL?

Zerimar Nyliram
07-29-2006, 04:49 PM
It's approved by Lucas Film, Jediphile. That's a lot more of a big deal.;)
I think kotor2 REALLY needs to be like kotor1 where you get to kill most of your party members if you go DS. Then you get to remove pervert mike's bodyparts bits by bits wif your trusty red saber as he deserves... Also giving that option to kotor2 would also ensure that lowlife excuse of a sub-sentient won't comeback to ANY future game/story of any form ever again.
Um, who was Mike? I'm pretty sure there was no party member named Mike in either KOTOR game.

The poster was referring to Mical/Deciple. I have trimmed the chatty posts in this thread. -RH

RobQel-Droma
07-31-2006, 03:29 PM
And the only thing to be called canon is what happened in the movies, the rest is ALL EU, so there is no way to tell whether it's true or not. There are simply not enough people who have read everything. and when discussing SW, there is no reason to assume that they have read those sources. There is reason to assume that they have seen the movies. Doing otherwise is pretty much the same as telling that some sort of god created the universe, earth or anything you name, just because some fairy tale states that, while it is clear that the majority of the people have not read that piece of fiction.

On the other hand, some of the EU fundamentalists have the same reasoning skills as a brick wall. To clarify, those are the guys that keep telling that because GL said so it's true, eventhough there's nothing to support GL's claims, or the claims of anybody else for that matter.

I could say the same about your reasoning skills too... You don't seem to get it.

GL created/envisioned/produced the whole freakin' universe we are talking about right now. That makes it his universe, right? So anything he wants to include in his universe he can, because he was the original maker. It might be EU, but EU is still canon.

"Nothing to support his claims..." Er... do you have some mistaken idea that Star Wars is real, and George Lucas is just guessing about this history? Because he really doesn't have any proof that 4000 years before the Battle of Yavin some dude named Revan came onto the scene? If so, then why are the movies somehow correct? In fact, why are we even discussing this far-fetched and ridiculous idea?

While I don't think that is your real basis for all this, I just wanted to understand what the "to support his claims" mean. Maybe you better sharpen up your reasoning skills and present something that makes sense.

And secondly, if you have never heard of Hannibal (the guy from Carthage), and if most of the population on earth had never heard of him, then would he be true or not? Most likely people would know about George Bush, Iraq, present events, etc. so that would make them true, right? But what about Hannibal? Is his existence now controversial?

Or, to use another made-up universe: It is much more likely that people will have played Halo 1 and 2, then read novels such as "Halo: Fall of Reach" or "Halo: The Flood".... but with your reasoning ("brick wall" comes to mind), would you state that the events entitled in those books most likely did not take place, or are mere myths?

JoesGuy
08-07-2006, 11:42 AM
Surely you people have learned that "canonical" on Wookieepedia could be anything near Malak being a Twilek dancing girl in disguise......oh wait. Forget what I said. :)

Zerimar Nyliram
08-07-2006, 02:50 PM
Clearly you know that not everything in KOTOR is canonical, correct? (And please, one "N".) For example: It probably isn't canon that Reven played Pazaak against that guy in the furthest corner of the Undercity and won by four points. However, from what we're told in KOTOR II it apparently is canon that the swoop racing sidequest (or at least the Manaan portion) that Reven participated in that and became the champion.

You see, it's impossible for every single choice to be canon as having really happened, for obvious reasons. The main flow of the story and one of the endings are deffinately canon. Other, minor things are really up to Obsidian and Lucas Film. (I'm sure that Trask telling Reven how to move around and to click on the icons in the upper part of the screen aboard the Endire Spire never happened.;))

HerbieZ
08-07-2006, 04:10 PM
Clearly you know that not everything in KOTOR is canonical, correct? (And please, one "N".) For example: It probably isn't canon that Reven played Pazaak against that guy in the furthest corner of the Undercity and won by four points. However, from what we're told in KOTOR II it apparently is canon that the swoop racing sidequest (or at least the Manaan portion) that Reven participated in that and became the champion.

You see, it's impossible for every single choice to be canon as having really happened, for obvious reasons. The main flow of the story and one of the endings are deffinately canon. Other, minor things are really up to Obsidian and Lucas Film. (I'm sure that Trask telling Reven how to move around and to click on the icons in the upper part of the screen aboard the Endire Spire never happened.;))

It'd be pretty funny in a movie. "Help me Obi-wan.." To respond to this plea press your left mouse button now!

PoiuyWired
08-07-2006, 05:06 PM
Well, Trask's "commands" are obviously gaming guidelines. But I am sure Trask's existance on ES is canon.

As for choices, it is improbable that LA would have a "model answer" for every one of them, hence information on kotor series characters are mostly brief.

I don't think Exile being a terminal Pazzak player who spend days in the bar while the galaxy is being ripped apart would look good in the story?

Also, Easter Eggs don't count, so Atton does not Mentioned about a series called jedi Academy. Although the Echani poem may be real.

So Atton may have actually use the line " Are You An Angel!" XD

Zerimar Nyliram
08-07-2006, 05:56 PM
Well, Trask's "commands" are obviously gaming guidelines. But I am sure Trask's existance on ES is canon.
Well, duh.;)

JoesGuy
08-08-2006, 03:17 AM
Okay first of all, it was at typo. They happen to the best of us.

Secondly, I'm am aware of the issues these kind of rpgs create to the SW enthusiast. When you're going for canon, you really can't rely on anything but the films. Not the comics, not the games and certainly not websites (wikipedia anyone?) And as PoiuyWired said, some aspects of the EU are merely a guide, yet still exsist and influence the narrative of the Star Wars universe.

Besides, I was referring to wikipedia.

Jediphile
08-08-2006, 04:48 AM
When you're going for canon, you really can't rely on anything but the films. Not the comics, not the games and certainly not websites (wikipedia anyone?)

Why not? I mean, yes to the websites, but why can't comics and games (and novels) be considered canon? If it's good enough for GL and LA, why isn't it good enough for us? Because GL accepts the New Jedi Order and the Tales of the Jedi comic books as canon. You even see Naga Sadow's attack on Coruscant pictured in Palpatine's office in Ep. III...

Master Urza
08-08-2006, 06:10 AM
^.^ Go girl power?

Lmfao, well thanks for letting us know what the canon is > . > I have to go beat TSL again I guess ;)

(Some people are taking this way to seriously :D ^>^>^>^>^)

Lightside Revan
08-08-2006, 10:57 AM
I would prefer to have a female Revan and then a male exile. Although I played them always as females. But Revan and the Exile have to be mentioned in the literature, especially now with the comics about KotOR. Maybe it's the best way to formulate them neutral and to refer to them as Revan or the Exile. Or LucasArts makes a decision. I mean to have heard somewhere that Revan was meant to be male :(. Then a female exile would be a good "compensation". Although I prefer to be the other way round :D .

JoesGuy
08-08-2006, 11:48 AM
Some of it certainly can be canonical, indeed. But most of it is mostly fan service, ie Boba Fett is dead.

Prime
08-08-2006, 02:17 PM
I see I am late to the party, bit I will take a stab at all this anyway. Sorry if I repeat stuff others have said...

First, it's a wiki, a completely unreliable source.It's not completely unreliable. There is lots of accurate and useful information there. You just have to be very aware about from what sources parts of the information come from. There is a lot on there that is simple fanwanking.

Second, there's no such thing as a canon Revan or canon Exile, at least not for Star Wars. Revan is conanically male light side and the Exile is conanically female light side.

They don't appear in the movies and as such are not canon. They are also in absolutely NO way relevant to the movies.The first part is false, that last part is true. They are just different levels of canon.

That means there is no canon Revan or Exile, no matter what anybody said. But the powers that be have said...

Those communities do not concern me.But they concern Lucas Licensing, with is of course all that matters. But feel free to plug your ears and stick your head in the sand if it helps.

Here are the facts though, all the non game writings and the game itself is all C-Level Canon, so it is quite impossible to call Revan 'canonically' Male LS, and The Exile 'canonically' Female LS... as they are the same level of EU canon.Having the choice of gender is a game mechanic, and so is not relevant to canon. Canon can be solidified and overruled by Licas Licensing, which they have in this case.

I don't buy that whole degrees crapThat's good, because we aren't selling it.

it's either canon or it's not.In a general sense, yes. But there is of course which level of canon applies to it.

You're still making no sense jedi3112. I'll use small words so that you'll understand. If it's published by GL, it's canon.To nit-pick, if it's published by Lucas Licensing. George Lucas tends to have little to nothing to do with it.

Apart from that, nothing that's published by anybody makes it automatically canon. They can't just go contradict themself, something that George Lucas is quite capable of with all his licencing. That's where the levels come in...

And the only thing to be called canon is what happened in the movies, the rest is ALL EU, so there is no way to tell whether it's true or not. There is a very easy way to tell.

There are simply not enough people who have read everything. and when discussing SW, there is no reason to assume that they have read those sources. There is reason to assume that they have seen the movies. Doing otherwise is pretty much the same as telling that some sort of god created the universe, earth or anything you name, just because some fairy tale states that, while it is clear that the majority of the people have not read that piece of fiction.This makes absolutely no sense.

On the other hand, some of the EU fundamentalists have the same reasoning skills as a brick wall. To clarify, those are the guys that keep telling that because GL said so it's true, eventhough there's nothing to support GL's claims, or the claims of anybody else for that matter.Well, there is the whole "creator" thing.

Obi-Wan Kenobi ('only a Sith deals in absolutes' is an absolute by itself)
Yoda ('do or do not, there is no try' is an absolute) Oh brother.

You obviously haven't even seen the movies. I could point things out, but that would spoil the movies if you were to watch them someday. Now I get it. You are trolling.

Jae Onasi
08-08-2006, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by jedi3112
I don't buy that whole degrees crap

That's good, because we aren't selling it.

Aw, darn, and here I was hoping to make something by putting the 6 degrees up at ebay.
:)

Jedi Master Ray
08-08-2006, 06:18 PM
Honestly, I don't think it matters... fi you want your Exile to be male, or dark side or vice versa...so be it. but that said...I do believe that anything in th EU is Canon! Like someone before said... if it contradicts Lucas's vision, it gets axed or rewritten boefre release.

TKA-001
08-08-2006, 11:28 PM
I think Female Exile is a stupid change because Disciple is a boring POS character. I just can't stand the guy, he talks strange...

RedHawke
08-09-2006, 01:27 AM
Having the choice of gender is a game mechanic, and so is not relevant to canon. Canon can be solidified and overruled by Licas Licensing, which they have in this case.
Prime you told me that it is all C-Level(?) Canon, so the so-called 'Canon' statement from LLC, is of the same level of C-Canon(?) as the game, correct?

JoesGuy
08-09-2006, 02:06 AM
Revan is conanically male light side and the Exile is conanically female light side.

Care to explain why? I'm hearing an awful lot about this "female exile" and wonder why this is so.

I know Revan is male because of references in comics and Canderous accidentally letting the word "him" slip while describing him.

Master Kavar
08-09-2006, 03:42 AM
Care to explain why? I'm hearing an awful lot about this "female exile" and wonder why this is so.

I know Revan is male because of references in comics and Canderous accidentally letting the word "him" slip while describing him.

It's been canonized because the two characters have been mentioned in passing in an official publication. I believe the Exile is mentioned in a new book about Droids (citing that T3 and HK were working for the Exile), and Revan appears in a small comic blurb when Duron Qel-Droma sees a vision of the future and what role Revan would play in it.

I wonder if he knew I was going to pick the robes off his corpse too. XD

Jediphile
08-09-2006, 07:39 AM
It's been canonized because the two characters have been mentioned in passing in an official publication. I believe the Exile is mentioned in a new book about Droids (citing that T3 and HK were working for the Exile),

Yes, IIRC it is in the New Essential Guide to Droids (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_New_Essential_Guide_to_Droids), where the description of G0-T0 refers to the exile as female and a "heroine". Since it is an official publication, it suggests a canonical female gender for the exile. Not sure why they said it in that book, though, as there seems to have been little reason to...

and Revan appears in a small comic blurb when Duron Qel-Droma sees a vision of the future and what role Revan would play in it.

I wonder if he knew I was going to pick the robes off his corpse too. XD

He did, actually. As he dies, Duron experiences a vision and says, "It finally makes sense. There is no chaos... The Qel-Droma robe - Revan will use it..."

Note, though, that Revan's gender is unrevealed, and Shaela Nuur (to whom Duron speaks his dying words) has no idea who he is talking about.