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Flying Beastie
03-25-2001, 10:06 PM
I was doing research a coupla weeks ago for a story I'm doing, and I noticed something cool.

Irish mythology talks about a race of people called the Tuatha dé Danann ("Children of Danu"). According to the Irish legend, the Danann were a race of god-like beings who arrived from the north (i.e., Scotland) in the year 350 BC (approximately). The Danann conquered the Fomorians (the people living in Ireland), and set themselves up as Ireland's new rulers. After a century or so, a group invaded from the south (mainland Europe) calling themselves Milesians ("Sons of Mil"). The Milesians handed the Danann defeat after defeat (much like the Yuuzhan Vong did to the Republic), eventually forcing them underground.

Over centuries, the Milesians developped into the Irish Gaels, and the surviving Danann were transformed into the Sidhe (pronounced "shee"), or the Fair Folk/Faerie/Fay/whatever you want to call them. The Danann were the gods of Celtic mythology; Dagda, Nuadu, Puck, and so forth.

Here's where it gets interesting.

I mentioned that the Danann arrived from the north --Scotland. When they arrived, they burned their boats (after coming ashore, of course http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif ). The legends give this a sense similar to Picard's First Contact speech: "The line must be drawn here!" They were running from something.

This got me thinking; they came from the direction of Scotland. What's in Scotland?

The Scottish version of the Danann legend explains: the Danann didn't come from Scotland, they just passed through it from further north.

Which brings us to Denmark. The danish word for "Denmark" is "Danemarke" which means "Land of Danu." Sound familiar?

Danish legends also talk of a race of gods. They came from the east and left to the south.

When you look to the east of Denmark (ignoring current national boundaries), you can find ancient local accounts that also mention a god-race. These accounts lead to another place, and another . . .

It becomes possible (with only a little extrapolation) to trace the course of the "Danann" in a sort of questionmark pattern.

It leads right back to the middle east. Not just anywhere in the middle east.

Babylon.

According to the original legend (not the version in the Bible), the Babylonians built their tower to contact the gods, plural. History identifies the Babel Tower as a zyggurat to Marduk (fans of Infernal Machine already know this). According to real history, the Tower was presumeably destroyed in any one of a hundred wars that swept through the area.

History can't tell us exactly when the Babel Tower fell, but it does give a range: 364-305 BC.

The dates match up.

The babylonians tried to contact their gods, the Anunnakhu ("Princely Ones/Offspring"). Some time afterwards, the Tower was destroyed, and a group of "god-like beings" fled north before hitting ice and turning around to head south, where they made a stand in Ireland.

If I didn't know better, I'd say the Babylonians succeeded. Which leaves one question.

The Danann were powerful enough to be called gods, they ruled all whom they encountered in their travel.

What the Hell were they running from? http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/eek.gif

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"Do fish-people eat fish, or would that be like humans eating monkeys?"
"Humans do eat monkeys. In fact humans eat other humans. . . Y'know, as a species, we are really quite unpleasant."

Rogue 9
03-25-2001, 10:45 PM
The Americans http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Nute Gunray
03-25-2001, 11:14 PM
i'm scared

K_Kinnison
03-25-2001, 11:59 PM
That is fricking kewl Beastie!

But you have to understand, We would be concidered Gods to the types of Society that was around during 300 BC. Heck, i would be a magician if i puled out my bIC lighter and created fire, used a megaphone, used mace or a tazer to defend my self, or took a Poleroid of them.

Be interesting to see how they decribed these "Gods" and compare it to what we know now.

Rogue 9
03-26-2001, 03:35 AM
They were actually bored Time travlers from the future who didn't like scottish people. You see in the alternative time line Scotland found America first Colonized it and retained our loyalty making them the most powerful nation it the world, then a covert group known as kulturny started a project code named Operation: Recall, because of this project the scotts military was wealened at an early point making them easy prey for the british and quashing their dominion before it ever started, a side effect of this waas the coloinization of the Americas by the U.K. instead, the Soon to be Unitied States revolted and we now have the timeline you see to day http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

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"The truest measure of a society is how it treats it's Elderly, It's Pets and It's Prisoners."

[This message has been edited by Rogue 9 (edited March 25, 2001).]

Nute Gunray
03-26-2001, 03:59 AM
i once saw something about the Tower of Babel being constructed of a local stone, which has high quartz content. Placing such a vast amount of it in a certain way would basically create a giant "crystal radio." I found that very intriguing.

Jabba The Hunt
03-26-2001, 04:53 AM
i cant be borthered to read all this - and im just about to leave for school so i really havent got the time

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ill get round to putting something here tommrow
jabbathehunt@hotmail.com

Zoom Rabbit
03-26-2001, 10:09 AM
So the Babylonians were trying to contact the Offspring?

Rock on, dudes! http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Innror
03-26-2001, 11:38 AM
Just a little correction, Denmark is actually called Danmark in danish http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/smile.gif

milkshake
03-26-2001, 07:32 PM
So the offspring decided to play a little prank on the middle-east/European civilisions.

The original pranksters http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

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Self proclaimed Forum 90's Dude
milkshake@milkshake.co.uk

Children in front seats cause accidents, accidents in front seats cause children

Psycho Tycho
03-26-2001, 08:22 PM
I guess that's pretty fly for a white guy. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Admiral
03-26-2001, 08:24 PM
this is cool.

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"Dulce bellum inexpertis."
(Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb

Jem
03-26-2001, 09:55 PM
Damn! me and my race have been uncovered!! We must pack our bags and leave again.

Now you know why I travel so much, it's tough but cool being a god...
http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif
<font size=1>

[This message has been edited by Jem (edited March 26, 2001).]

Poor Bastard
03-26-2001, 11:13 PM
"SOMETIMES I FALL DOWN WHILE EATING CAKE." - Danann Person

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"Face down on the floor, both of you right now! The first person who comes out this *BEEP*ing door gets a, gets a LEAD SALAD!"

Flying Beastie
03-27-2001, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Jem:
it's tough but cool being a god... .

This reminds me of that song in Road to El Dorado. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif

*wanders off singing*
It's tough to be a god.
Tread where mortals never trod. . .

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"Do fish-people eat fish, or would that be like humans eating monkeys?"
"Humans do eat monkeys. In fact humans eat other humans. . . Y'know, as a species, we are really quite unpleasant."

Andromeda
03-27-2001, 03:01 PM
I love mythological stuffs http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/smile.gif norse, greek, roman, egyptian, babylonian, whatever, it's fascinating. i dunno, i'm a sucker for ancient things...and no, that does not mean anna nicole smith is my mentor http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif

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If you live to be a hundred, i hope i live to be a hundred minus one so i never have to live without you!
SkirtPower@hotmail.com

Official Forum Chick

Flying Beastie
03-30-2001, 01:45 PM
Minor correction: the Danann didn't take Ireland from the Fomorians, they took it from the Firbolg. The Fomorians were a group of pirates who tried to take over from the Danann, and were defeated at the Second Battle of Mag Tuired. I got mixed up, sorry.

I was in a hurry when I passed through here earlier, but I can respond now.

Originally posted by K_Kinnison:
Be interesting to see how they decribed these "Gods" and compare it to what we know now.

I don't have the original sources with me (they're in the library's reference section and I can't take them out), but I have a page of notes, and the Danann turned up (not literally http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif ) in an Irish course I took last semester.

The Irish legend describes four artifacts that the Danann brought with them from "four mighty cities to the north:"

The Stone of Destiny, called the Lia Fáil came from "Failias," and would resound or vibrate when touched by one of royal blood. The only analogy I can think of is some sort of genetic scanner, able to identify someone by their lineage. According to one legend, this is the stone (imported to Britain) that Merlin put Excaliber into before Arthur ("Artus") claimed it. A boulder identified as the Lia Fáil is currently underneath the throne (in a compartment) at (IIRC) Westminster Abbey.

The Spear of Lug (or "Spear of Light"), called the Gae Bolga, came from "Goirias." Based on the descriptions, it sounds like some sort of hand-held artillery weapon. The only accounting I can give is a long-barelled rifle, firing explosive ammo. The book notes the similarities to Zeus' lightning, so it's possible these might've been a fairly common weapon. The mental image that comes to mind are the Blast-Lances in Stargate. The Gae Bolga eventually fell into the hands of Cuchullain, the ancient Irish super-hero. Current whereabouts unknown.

The Cauldron of Dagda, called . . . the Cauldron of Dagda (*shrugs*), was a cauldron of food that would never become empty. The only analogy I can think of is one of Star Trek's replicators. The Cauldron came from "Findias," but its current whereabouts is unknown.

I don't have any notes on Nuadu's Sword, except that it was very sharp and strong, like Excaliber. Nuadu (the Danann's leader) brought it from "Muirias," and probably lost it somewhere in Ireland.

In addition to these treasures, individual Danann also had specialized gear.

Dagda (in addition to his Cauldron), carried a magic harp, upon which he could play songs to work magic (like Link's Ocarina in Ocarina of Time). Most famous was the Song of Sleep, that would make any who heard it fall into a deep slumber.

Mannanan (sp?) had a cloak that would turn him invisible, as well as a chariot that could travel over water. The chariot might've been a hovercraft, but I can't account for the "cloaking device."

Nuadu, the ruler of the Danann, had his hand cut off in battle (after arriving in Ireland), and had another Danann (who's name escapes me) craft him a prosthetic out of gold (or bronze, or brass, depending on the legend and the translation). After this, Nuadu was known as Nuadu of the Golden Hand.

I'd be willing to accept that the Danann, if they did come from Babylon, might've brought technology close to or equal to ours, but I still can't reconcile the Lia Fáil, Dagda's Cauldron and harp, Mannanan's cloak, or Nuadu's prosthesis with technology the Babylonians would've had access to. (Remember as well that Nuadu's golden hand was made in Ireland, not brought with them.)

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"Do fish-people eat fish, or would that be like humans eating monkeys?"
"Humans do eat monkeys. In fact humans eat other humans. . . Y'know, as a species, we are really quite unpleasant."

K_Kinnison
04-02-2001, 02:12 AM
You know i have been thinking.. and the Danan might actaully be Romans. If it WAS around 300 BC, what would a stong age culture think of People walking around in Bronze armor. YOu would think they were Gods. with that shiney skin. And Romans were not primitive. There are reports of Cleopatra able to wear CONTACTS to change the color of her eyes. The Fake hand did not have to be able to move about. Just somthing that was crafted well enuf to look like the real shape, and at the time only a presious metal like Gold or Silver could be worked so well.

Redwing
04-02-2001, 05:05 AM
There once was a show called Gargoyles that starred Cuchullain in one episode, reborn as a simple Irish boy... I liked their version of the Spear of Light. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.

Flying Beastie
04-04-2001, 02:10 PM
Aye, Gargoyles was the best show ever on the air, animated or not. 'Course, I might be biased; my main dream-date is Demona.

I didn't really like the Cuchullain ep; whoever animated it clearly has no idea on how to throw a spear. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif

Check out http://www.gargoyles-fans.org for some awesome fanfiction.

Apparently this is based on Greg Weisman's original plan for the show, and includes things like Demona's redemption, Broadway & Angela's deepening relationship, and Goliath's vision from "Future Tense" coming to pass.

There are 4 spin-offs: The Gargoyles Saga (mainstream continuation), Dark Ages (teenaged Goliath & Demona), Pendragon (following the revived King Arthur [Cuchullain is here, too]), and TimeDancer (the ultimate Brooklyn story-arc).

EDIT: Suddenly realized I was off-topic. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/rolleyes.gif

Kinnison, it might've been Romans, but the Danann came from the north, Romans would've come from the south. And I doubt they'd have passed through Scotland either way. Besides, I think this is long before the romans would've shown up.

I also can't think of any roman explanations for some of the artifacts, although I'll accept your idea of Nuadu's hand.

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"Do fish-people eat fish, or would that be like humans eating monkeys?"
"Humans do eat monkeys. In fact humans eat other humans. . . Y'know, as a species, we are really quite unpleasant."

[This message has been edited by Flying Beastie (edited April 04, 2001).]

Redwing
04-08-2001, 02:08 AM
Cool! Another Gargoyles fan! I love that series. The Saga had it's flaws, but it wasn't bad at all. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif
Timedancer was really good (wait I never finished reading it! I'll have to go there again...)

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.

Rogue 9
04-08-2001, 05:26 AM
Andromeda is of course the best show running on T.V., everything else is just boring in comparison, where else can someone obsessed with computers find a women he could get along with.

Flying Beastie
04-11-2001, 03:03 PM
What I love about TGS is that they can get away with dealing with things that the TV show had to avoid.

Fave moments:

-Lex going postal on "Madox" with a quarryhammer.

-The revelation of the power behind the Quarrymen.

-Lex commlinking Brooklyn and hearing the rustling of clothing before Brooklyn responds "Lex, this had better be important," with female giggles sounding in the background. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

-Demona saving Elisa from the elfshot.

-Goliath giving Angela and Broadway their own chamber so he and Elisa could have the library to themselves. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif

-Elisa's new catchphrase: "Don't hurt my car."

In Pendragon:

-Leo's "light snack" that includes a beer mug of tea, a huge loaf of bread, a leg of lamb, an entire tray of biscuits, scones, a salad, and a cake.

-Griff being pursued by the Scottish females and fleeing for his (bachelor-)life.

-Kyrstie's welcoming flying tackle when Griff returns to visit.

I haven't even finished the last season of Pendragon yet, and the latest TGS season is already complete!

I need more spare time. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/frown.gif

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"Do fish-people eat fish, or would that be like humans eating monkeys?"
"Humans do eat monkeys. In fact humans eat other humans. . . Y'know, as a species, we are really quite unpleasant."

Redwing
04-12-2001, 04:46 AM
I thought the thing with Demona saving Elisa from the elfshot was pretty cool. But Brooklyn having luck with women? I don't think so. (It breaks tradition! http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif ) Madoc was really cool, but they made Oberon seem too much like a hero. And the magic quarryhammers was a very nicely ironic touch.

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.

Flying Beastie
04-12-2001, 05:50 PM
Oberon is a puppet who's manipulated around by Titania; she's the competent one. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif

"On Avalon, Oberon's word is law."
"Does that mean he's always right?"
"Not while he's married!"

I kinda like the idea of Oberon being the Faerie Court's equivalent to Tim Taylor. http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/wink.gif

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"Do fish-people eat fish, or would that be like humans eating monkeys?"
"Humans do eat monkeys. In fact humans eat other humans. . . Y'know, as a species, we are really quite unpleasant."

Redwing
04-13-2001, 08:53 AM
I liked him especially in I'll Met by Moonlight (did I get the ep name right?) when he soundly defeated all the gargoyles at a newborn's magical power level. But I thought his "little" temper tantrum over Manhattan fell flat because they made him far too weak.

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.

Redwing
04-13-2001, 09:02 AM
Muhahahahahaha, top ten/whatever lists... http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif
http://pucksplace.art-chicks.com/aerie/lists.htm

Here's my favorite: The Top Ten Star Wars Trilogy References in
"Gargoyles"

10. Oberon's use of grab-the-laser-gun-from-David Xanatos-across-the- room trick.
-vs-
Vader's use of grab-the-blaster-from-Han-Solo-from-across-the-room trick

9. Oberon: "But my pet and I have pressing business within."
XE Guard: "You have business inside."
Oberon: "And you have other matters to attend to."
Guard: "I have other things to do."
-vs-
Obi-wan: "These aren't the droids you're looking for."
Storm trooper: "These aren't the droids we're looking for."
Obi-wan: "He can go about his business."
Storm trooper: "You can go about your business."

8. Leia's Hologram: "You fought with my father in the Clone Wars."
-vs-
Brooklyn: "Yeah, but...Thailog was killed in the Clone Wars."
(Does Puck watch Star Wars? http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif )

7. Angela: "Elisa...is Demona my mother?"
Elisa: "Yes. She is."
-vs-
Luke: "Master Yoda, I have to know...is Vader my father?"
Yoda: "Your father he is."

6. Brooklyn: "You've got a lot of nerve coming back here."
-vs-
Lando: "You've got a lot of nerve showing your face around here."

5. Demona: "I don't know who's the bigger fool -- him for leading, you for following, or me for not leaving you both!"
-vs-
Obi-Wan: "Who's the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him?"

4. Una: "Oh, Griff, why did you have to be so brave?"
-vs-
C-3P0: "R2, why did you have to be so brave?"

3. Demona: "Demona...I like the sound of that."
-vs-
Han Solo: "Scoundrel. Scoundrel! I think I like the sound of that."

2. Angela: "Father, protect me!"
-vs-
Luke: "Father, please!"

And the #1 Star Wars/Gargoyles Reference:

1. Brooklyn: "Use the force, Lex!" (Need we say more?)

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.

Flying Beastie
04-14-2001, 05:39 PM
I particularly like the All I Need to Know, I Learned From Gagoyles page that I found a few years back. My favourite was:

"Never underestimate the hidden powers of the quiet, efficient guy with the glasses."

<small>You kinda have to see me in person to get why I like it.</small>
http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

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"Do fish-people eat fish, or would that be like humans eating monkeys?"
"Humans do eat monkeys. In fact humans eat other humans. . . Y'know, as a species, we are really quite unpleasant."

Psycho Tycho
04-14-2001, 05:48 PM
Funny... http://www.xwingalliance.com/forums/biggrin.gif

Redwing
04-15-2001, 07:35 AM
Next TT list: Top Forty Lines Unheard on Gargoyles:
#40: Lexington to a computer: "I don't get it."
#39: Broadway: "I'm not hungry."
#38: Xanatos: "What am I supposed to do?"
#37: Demona: "Okay."
#36: Elisa to Matt: "I believe in them, too!"
#35: Elisa to Jason: "Yes!"
#34: Xanatos: "I utterly and completely LOST!"
#33: Owen: "Ha ha ha!"
#32: Hudson: "Let's go out and do something tonight."
#31: Broadway: "Nah, I've already seen it once. Why go out again?"
#30: Brooklyn: "Your turn! Here you go."
#29: Brooklyn: "I'm sorry, I just don't feel that way about you."
#28: Angela: "I know where Avalon sent us this time!"
#27: Demona: "I'm sorry."
#26: Margot: "Well done, Brendan! I'm quite impressed!"
#25: Puck: "But Oberon said not to!"
#24: Goliath: "It's only a life."
#23: Oberon: "I don't really care. Do whatever."
#22: One of Xanatos' Commando soldiers: "I love my job."
#21: Luna to other Sisters: "I don't agree! You're wrong!"
#20: Phoebe to other Sisters: "I'd appreciate being allowed to finish my own sentences once in a while. That wasn't what I was
going to say!"
#19: Selene to other Sisters: "Can't you two get a different haircut or something, at least?"
#18: Luna to other Sisters: "What are we supposed to be doing here, anyway? And why? I forgot."
#17: Cagney: "Hello, Elisa! How was work today?"
#16: Renard: "I lied."
#15: Banshee: "Does anyone know where the cough drops are?"
#14: Goliath: "I know! We can throw a party!"
#13: Angela: "DIE!!!"
#12: Goliath: "How much for the bazooka?"
#11: Demona: "I give up. You win."
#10: Goliath: "Because I'm bigger, that's why!"
#9: Elisa: "I hate gargoyles!"
#8: Chavez: "I'm just going to lie back and relax, okay?"
#7: Elisa: "I'm going to bed."
#6: Goliath: "We defeated them once, but I don't think we can do it again."
#5: Delilah: "Okay everyone, listen up! This is what we're gonna do!"
#4: Nessie: "Oh, shut up and stop babbling, Angela!"
#3: Servarius: "That's so sweet! They're making friends! Oh--let's just let them both go." #2: Claw: "Hi, everyone!"
#1: Goliath: Starts singing "Copa Cabana."

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At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi.
At last we will have revenge.

[This message has been edited by Redwing (edited April 15, 2001).]