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*bAsTiLaJeEdAi*
08-12-2006, 11:39 PM
Darth Vader!woooooooo

How did Sidious come up with Vaders name? Did he just think-ooooo Vader that sounds cool and intimidating. and has anyone else noticed that if you put "in" in front of vader its Invader which is basically what he is?

Sorry its just that this has been bugging me for ages, and I was looking forward to finding out in ROTS but all he says is "you will be known Darth Vader". any thoughts? :vadar:

Jeff
08-12-2006, 11:48 PM
Well I don't know the official reason for how Palpatine came up with it (if there is one) but I know in, I believe, Dutch, Vader means father. So that's how they got the name.

Great Scott!
08-13-2006, 12:13 AM
The name probably means something, and Palpatine had about 23 years to think it up, so he probably chose well.

*bAsTiLaJeEdAi*
08-13-2006, 12:23 AM
Well I don't know the official reason for how Palpatine came up with it (if there is one) but I know in, I believe, Dutch, Vader means father. So that's how they got the name.

Whoa thats quite interesting. hehe Darth Father. or Darth Dad!

Jeff
08-13-2006, 08:11 AM
Well they got the name Darth because it sounded like dark. I remember George saying something about how in reality vader's name means 'Dark Father.'

Pho3nix
08-13-2006, 08:22 AM
Yeah I think that's right, Vader does mean father.

Great Scott!
08-13-2006, 01:20 PM
In German, father is "Vater," which is really close too (as has been pointed out before), but the Dutch name is the official reason.

coupes.
08-13-2006, 02:54 PM
All true, GL said so in a interview with Rolling Stone in 2005 I beleive.

Darth_Terros
08-16-2006, 11:24 AM
Darth is a made up name just like Jedi or Sith.

And here is wookieepedia has to say on the subject

It is also worth noting that vader is the Dutch word for father (as well as an Old English variant for "father" cf. OED), and it may be tempting to read the character name Darth Vader as Dark Father, a word-play that may well be the root of the Sith title. However, judging by the origin of the other Sith names, Vader may also possibly be a derivative of the word invader. Furthermore, it is also worth noting that in the original scripts for A New Hope, the name Darth Vader was given to a normal Imperial general.

grrrrrrrrrr7
08-16-2006, 12:45 PM
That's what I've heard for a long time. I thought everybody knew that.:p

i didnt

PoiuyWired
08-16-2006, 03:13 PM
So, Darth Vader could be translated as "Black Daddy" ??

DarthMuffin
08-16-2006, 04:09 PM
The wookiepedia bit is quite interesting.

But I believe that the OP wanted to know how *Sidious*, not Lucas, found the name. It's been a while since I read the book, but there's something about "Sith spirits" whispering the name to Sidious. Or something similar.

MachineCult
08-16-2006, 04:12 PM
So, Darth Vader could be translated as "Black Daddy" ??
Only by someone like you.

St. Jimmy
08-17-2006, 05:35 AM
O_o Wow. I never knew that stuff I just assumed GL used that name 'cause it sounded cool.

Negative Sun
08-17-2006, 04:32 PM
But I agree, the way Palpatine presents it in the movie is kinda stupid...In fact that entire scene is rediculous, Anakin is such a damn wimp...It kinda ruins the image I used to have of Vader

Samurai DD
08-18-2006, 01:23 PM
The wookiepedia bit is quite interesting.

But I believe that the OP wanted to know how *Sidious*, not Lucas, found the name. It's been a while since I read the book, but there's something about "Sith spirits" whispering the name to Sidious. Or something similar.

Yep, in fact, if you pay attention in the movie, Sidious doesn't just say "You'llbeDarthVader." He kind of says "You'll be Darth... Va... Der." In the space between syllables you can hear a really creepy sound, probably the Sith spirits telling him the name.

Great Scott!
08-18-2006, 11:11 PM
But I agree, the way Palpatine presents it in the movie is kinda stupid...In fact that entire scene is rediculous, Anakin is such a damn wimp...It kinda ruins the image I used to have of VaderAre you ****ing kidding me? That was one of my favorite scenes in the whole saga! :snear: People sure are critical when watching the prequel trilogy, if it's not 100% perfect, they seem to get all mad at it...

obXI
08-19-2006, 01:43 AM
Yep, in fact, if you pay attention in the movie, Sidious doesn't just say "You'llbeDarthVader." He kind of says "You'll be Darth... Va... Der." In the space between syllables you can hear a really creepy sound, probably the Sith spirits telling him the name.

Yeah he did pause there, almost like he had other names racing through his head.

"darth vapid...no nono...vapor...NO...vegas. Ah Wait! Vader!"

From the moment Sidious exposed himself as a Sithlord to Anakin to the moment Anakin became Darth Vader was the BEST direction Lucas had done throughout the prequels. My god I thought it would never happen, some damn good drama...*appalauds*

MachineCult
08-19-2006, 07:24 AM
I thought it was some sort of ancient Sith language and he was just thinking of something appropriate for Anakin.

grrrrrrrrrr7
08-19-2006, 09:15 AM
Here's what DARTH VADER really means:

..................It is also worth noting that vader is the Dutch word for father (as well as an Old English variant for "father" cf. OED), and it may be tempting to read the character name Darth Vader as Dark Father, a word-play that may well be the root of the Sith title. However, judging by the origin of the other Sith names, Vader may also possibly be a derivative of the word invader. Furthermore, it is also worth noting that in the original scripts for A New Hope, the name Darth Vader was given to a normal Imperial general.............

End of dissucussion.

Darth_Terros
08-19-2006, 09:19 AM
Here's what DARTH VADER really means:

..................It is also worth noting that vader is the Dutch word for father (as well as an Old English variant for "father" cf. OED), and it may be tempting to read the character name Darth Vader as Dark Father, a word-play that may well be the root of the Sith title. However, judging by the origin of the other Sith names, Vader may also possibly be a derivative of the word invader. Furthermore, it is also worth noting that in the original scripts for A New Hope, the name Darth Vader was given to a normal Imperial general.............

End of dissucussion.

Thanks for sharing something that was already posted ....

PoiuyWired
08-19-2006, 01:26 PM
Well, we still did not solve why IN UNIVERSE he is called Vader.

I don't suppose Sidious called Ani Vader cause "Hmmm... Vader means father, cause you make me think about my daddy"

One suggestion would be Vader as in "invader" like Sidious as in "insidious" but obviously you don't add in- in frount of all Darth- sith names.

Think about inbane, inkrayt, inmalek or inbinks. They all sound stupid.

Samurai DD
08-19-2006, 03:16 PM
But the solution for the "in universe" reason is what Darth54 and me already posted! Sith spirits chose the name, and told Sidious through the Force.

DarthMuffin
08-19-2006, 04:46 PM
Well, people like to discuss stuff over and over again even if the topic question is already answered :p

JediLandon
09-21-2006, 07:30 PM
The name probably means something, and Palpatine had about 23 years to think it up, so he probably chose well.



ya he probably had some time to think of that name beside all the sith names start with darth all that he had to come up with was vader

Darth Badguy
01-28-2007, 09:45 AM
I don't tink it has anything to do with Dutch. I would like it if he was really called after a Dutch word (I'm Dutch :D ) but it doesn't make any sense... why would George Lucas read the dictionary of one of the smallest countrys in the world with a Prime-Minister of which George Bush can't even remember his name (Jan Peter Balkenende)? It's more like (In)vader, attacker, leader of the invasion...

Gug Eyewalker
01-28-2007, 09:36 PM
About the scene where his is named Darth Vader, everything leading up to that was great, BUT, Anakin was way too submissive, he was just "What have I done?" "I pledge myself to your teachings" and that was it!

There shoulda been a fight between the two or something, Sidious shoulda had a round against Anakin to break his will....
Forget about al lthe Padme nonsense! No idiot would jsut bow down to a sworn and untrusted enemy to save your girlfriend from a scanty vision.

darth kav
02-01-2007, 01:37 PM
he was "submissive" because he know no that he could not go back to the light side because he has killed a jedi master and if he did he would be exiled from the council.hope this anwsers your question.

any why back to the subject i agree with Samurai DD and darth 54 said.

Titanius Anglesmith
02-01-2007, 02:12 PM
Actually, he could come back to the light since he did in episode IV.

If he loved Padme enough, then he would've done anything to save her - even betray his allies and become the Sith Lord's apprentice.

And btw, Darth Badguy, try not to resurrect old threads. :)

Ctrl Alt Del
02-02-2007, 05:13 PM
I've heard about a babylonian word (think its babilonian, or sumerian, or somewhere else on the old Middle-East) that, renslated, sounds exactly like Darth Vader.

The actual meaning of that word is: "The rule of the Sword". An entire era where the wars, the warfare, was woth more than actual people.

darth kav
02-02-2007, 05:55 PM
thats kool :O

JawaJoey
02-26-2007, 03:56 AM
There are plenty of explanations for the etymology of Vader and most character's names, but the question, I think, is how did Palpatine come up with it.

We don't know, but I would guess that he just chose it. Obviously not from the Dutch origin. Just something cool and intimidating, reminiscent of evil. He probably thought of it before hand.

How do you name a child? You just come up with a good name. This was the same, except instead of a baby, he was a Sith. :p

LordSerion
08-09-2007, 11:41 AM
This is an ancient Sith tradition. When an Apprentice reaches the required status, the Master gives him his new name. He enters into a brief, but deep meditation, connects to the Force and then spells it. The Dark Side itself suggests the name.

PoiuyWired
08-09-2007, 01:17 PM
Now how did the Sith Spirits come up with the name? I guess they are probably getting it from one of those "baby names" website from goggle.

There are plenty of explanations for the etymology of Vader and most character's names, but the question, I think, is how did Palpatine come up with it.

How do you name a child? You just come up with a good name. This was the same, except instead of a baby, he was a Sith. :p

Well, there is no "Book of Baby Sith Names" found on Amazon.com. So it must be hard naming your lil' Sith.

Well, actually rather than coming up with a nice sounding name, it does help to check on words with similar meaning, ESPECIALLY words that sound similar in the language. You ton'w want your kid to be made fun of fore the rest of his life. Cause you know, it is REQUIRED for everyone to make fun of a stupid name.

Sabretooth
08-12-2007, 01:17 PM
I think the thread is about how Palpatine made up the name "Vader" and not how Lucas made up the name "Vader"! It was probably the name of some ancient Sith or meant something in the ancient Sith language, methinks. The way he says it, "Darth... Vader." indicates that he was looking for something in his memory, a name he had in his mind.

PoiuyWired
08-12-2007, 01:26 PM
Well, consider Anakin lucky... If Palpy have bad hearing then he may be stuck with some random stupid names...

Darth... Beta!!!

Obss Damell
08-15-2007, 10:28 AM
Well I don't know the official reason for how Palpatine came up with it (if there is one) but I know in, I believe, Dutch, Vader means father. So that's how they got the name.


thats true. my guess is because he has no father. although some belive darth plaguies ''created'' him by manipulating midi-chlorians.....damn paradox....Plagueies makes Anikin, Sidious kills Plagueies, Anikin becomes Sidious' apprentice...damn

BigMike322
09-29-2007, 11:54 AM
Too bad they canceled the Plagues novel, although I am looking forward to the rule of 2. Anyways I think the whole Vade/Father concept was to coincide with "Luke, I am your father."

Rev7
09-29-2007, 03:47 PM
But the solution for the "in universe" reason is what Darth54 and me already posted! Sith spirits chose the name, and told Sidious through the Force.
Exactly... don't you remember that Sidious had a really deep voice when he told Ani that his new name was Vader... Sidious got this from the dark side of the force, he DIDN'T think of the name, the dark side of the force did.

Marius Fett
12-02-2007, 05:24 PM
This is like asking how America became America...

Or how Britain became Britain...

Just sounds cool!

:D

hatae55
01-05-2008, 09:44 AM
This is like asking how America became America...

Or how Britain became Britain...

Just sounds cool!

:D

Britain is named for the tribes(Britons)at the time of the Romans

America was named for the explorer who originaly thought America was not Asia (Amerigo Vespucci). A map maker who believed Amerigo was so impressed, he wrote the name on his map.

NL_Sudentor
03-04-2008, 05:28 PM
Well I don't know the official reason for how Palpatine came up with it (if there is one) but I know in, I believe, Dutch, Vader means father. So that's how they got the name.


That is absolutly correct.
I'm dutch, but it certainly doesnt have to do anything with his name.
Not one dutchy worked on the starwars series so it would be weird if it has anything to do with that. (unfortunatly)

But I think that the emperor just thought a moment and then quickly concluded that he wants him to be named as vader.
So he doesn't really takes a while to think about it.
But i must admit i dit relate his name with the dutch word vader. I was 8 years old but it maked sense for me back then that they had it the whole time about darth vader, that actually was the father of luke.

Is vader a word with a certain meaning in english???

So, Darth Vader could be translated as "Black Daddy" ??


Hehe yes indeed

I don't tink it has anything to do with Dutch. I would like it if he was really called after a Dutch word (I'm Dutch :D ) but it doesn't make any sense... why would George Lucas read the dictionary of one of the smallest countrys in the world with a Prime-Minister of which George Bush can't even remember his name (Jan Peter Balkenende)? It's more like (In)vader, attacker, leader of the invasion...


I was thinking of my earlier post, Lucas is a backname in dutch!!!
Maybe his ancesters where dutch, maybe he related the fact that darth vader was the father of luke (don't forget that the movies need to be correct against the original trilogy)
Maybe it thought 'vader' sounded good in English

Kurgan
03-05-2008, 07:32 PM
It comes from Gary Vader, a jock who may have picked on the young Lucas in high school.

Don't believe me?

http://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com (in the pdf book, page 468)

The "Dark Father" thing is just a coincidence, as the character was not turned into anyone's daddy until he began Empire Strikes Back. Originally it was just the name of various characters, not a "Sith Title" (as it became when he was writing Episode I, nearly 20 years later).


In-universe, how did Palpatine come up with the name? Your guess is as good as mine! I don't believe there is an official explanation...

adamqd
03-06-2008, 07:24 AM
Good find on the Gary Vader Kurgan!

Agreed, people think that every detail, character, name etc has been fleshed out since 77'. Hell, Darth Vader (David Prowse) didn't know he was Luke's father till opening night lol!

My guess is that in-universe he was named Vader by Palpatine in reference to a Sith word or name, although it could be a play on 'Invader'.

*Don*
03-08-2008, 12:16 AM
I believe that the "dark father" theory is the correct reason.

Rev7
03-08-2008, 01:18 AM
It comes from Gary Vader, a jock who may have picked on the young Lucas in high school.

Don't believe me?

http://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com (in the pdf book, page 468)

The "Dark Father" thing is just a coincidence, as the character was not turned into anyone's daddy until he began Empire Strikes Back. Originally it was just the name of various characters, not a "Sith Title" (as it became when he was writing Episode I, nearly 20 years later).


In-universe, how did Palpatine come up with the name? Your guess is as good as mine! I don't believe there is an official explanation...
Wow... I never knew that...

DeadYorick
03-08-2008, 04:38 AM
Wow... I never knew that...

Why am I not surprised? George Lucas the person who started a series that jeeks everywhere can devote their life to, based the main antagonist off someone who bullied him.

Doc Valentine
03-13-2008, 01:15 PM
It's very interesting to see where people get their ideas for certain aspects of their stories. It also kind of gives you that creative power. It would make sense for Lucas to write his main villain after someone who bullied him. After all, many writers create their worlds based mildly off events that have happened in their own lives.

PoiuyWired
03-14-2008, 01:23 AM
Well, put it this way, as least its not his mean ex girlfriend or something. And thank the force that the old bully have a decent name and not something like Bubba Thomson. Cause Darth Tom is not really a cool name for some arch villian.

eugenesheremet
03-22-2008, 09:32 AM
Guys, all of you are wrong. Darth Vader comes from Darr Veter, the name of the hero from Andromeda: A Space-Age Tale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda:_A_Space-Age_Tale).
And it is not because of assonance of the names, but because Andromeda is one of the greatest sci-fi novels in history, that influenced greatly on many succeeding authors.

Doc Valentine
03-25-2008, 12:59 AM
Guys, all of you are wrong. Darth Vader comes from Darr Veter, the name of the hero from Andromeda: A Space-Age Tale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda:_A_Space-Age_Tale).
And it is not because of assonance of the names, but because Andromeda is one of the greatest sci-fi novels in history, that influenced greatly on many succeeding authors.

Do you have any cited resources that support that theory though?

Anakin4ever
03-30-2008, 10:29 AM
He didn't make it upp i had a long time to choos.

>General Havok<
03-31-2008, 11:18 PM
Who cares where it came from. Its a sweet name. :monkey4:

Rabish Bini
04-04-2008, 07:08 AM
Guys, all of you are wrong. Darth Vader comes from Darr Veter, the name of the hero from Andromeda: A Space-Age Tale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda:_A_Space-Age_Tale).
And it is not because of assonance of the names, but because Andromeda is one of the greatest sci-fi novels in history, that influenced greatly on many succeeding authors.

So, sign up to post once on something which you probably don't have any resources on.

And I reckon George Lucas just thought it sounded cool.

no_name
05-28-2010, 07:54 AM
has anyone else come across the fact that 'vader' also means 'brother' in Africaans? perhaps it's that Sidious wanted Anakin to trust him as his brother, although he is obviously his master.
Probably another coincedence, along with the Dutch meaning, but it sounds cool and is LOADED with talking points!

Kurgan
05-29-2010, 06:41 PM
Those are all fun and interesting, but let's face it, Lucas probably had no idea of that and it's just a lucky coincidence.

In the early scripts the Vader character was simply a "grim looking general" in the early scripts. He wasn't a Sith Lord nor did he have the Force and he wasn't the father of the good guy protagonist. It was instead Prince Valorum who had the dark side.

Again it was the name of a high school jock that was the original inspiration.

Considering all the explanations that it came from "Dark Father" and so forth come out after Star Wars became popular, I think those aren't the real reason. Trust me, I'd want it to be true so I could say how visionary Lucas was. But it's not, just like the "Hebrew prophecy on Vader's chestplate" rumor isn't true nor is the "Sun of the Sons in ROTJ SE" rumor.

It's interesting to note that one of the first things that Lucas came up with when creating Star Wars was to generate random names... first names, last names, titles, etc. He mixed them around and matched them for how he thought they sounded. You can see going through the early scripts that he will put a name on a character and then later put it on a totally different character. We only think the name is meaningful now because we've associated it with the black mask, cape and breathing for so long (incidentally, the idea of putting Vader into a breathing mask wasn't even Lucas' idea, it was something artist Ralph McQuarrie came up with after Lucas gave him the task of making some paintings to sell the idea to the studios based on his early script). Since the scene has the Vader character and his goons going through a pocket of vacuum to get to the Rebel ship, he put them all in space helmets. You may remember this painting:

http://www.df.lth.se/~ola/Starwars/StarWars/images/starwars2.jpg (click, BIG!)

Notice the hero has a breath mask as well, and Vader has a gun! In the early concepts everybody had a saber. So a lot of concepts changed over the years and it wasn't all due to some grand story that Vader had in the back of his mind, he had a lot of inspirations and lucky things enter the story as it developed.

Let's not forget this one either:
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ralph-mcquarrie-stormtrooper-concept-art-star-wars-fr.jpg (click, big!)

The original Star Wars was less inspired by mythology than by popular entertainment Lucas loved in his younger days, which was mostly westerns, re-runs of adventure serials, pulp sci fi and space operas, comics, samurai and WWII pictures. The whole "mythology influence" thing came later, and you could say it had an influence on Empire Strikes Back, but the idea that it underpins all of the series is mostly hype.

I mean, every kid knows who "King Arthur" is (and the same was true back in the '70s), even if they've never read the actual legends.

This is a cool site... much of the character of Vader is based on his visual development and Kaminski does it again with a nice thorough article on the subject, with great pictures:

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/visualdevelopmentofdarthvader.html

purifier
06-01-2010, 02:04 PM
This is a cool site... much of the character of Vader is based on his visual development and Kaminski does it again with a nice thorough article on the subject, with great pictures:

http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/visualdevelopmentofdarthvader.html

This is great info Kurgan, thanks for offering the link to those of us who didn't know. I really appreciate this one myself, I learned something knew from this link. :thmbup1:

I always suspected Doctor Doom had some influence on the development of Sith Lords like Vader, now I know. And at times, from reading the "The Fantastic Four" comics and seeing the movies, I would swear Doctor Doom was really a Sith Lord. Yep, it all makes sense.

Lol! Doctor Doom would make a hellva Sith Lord too, btw. :D

noizer
08-21-2010, 11:28 AM
Well I don't know the official reason for how Palpatine came up with it (if there is one) but I know in, I believe, Dutch, Vader means father. So that's how they got the name.

correct. vader is father in dutch :thmbup1:

dont know if the dutch meaning has something to do with darth Vaders name tho. maybe they chose it because it sounds cool ?

Ztalker
08-22-2010, 11:30 AM
correct. vader is father in dutch :thmbup1:

dont know if the dutch meaning has something to do with darth Vaders name tho. maybe they chose it because it sounds cool ?

Vader is not father in Dutch. You pronounce Vader as 'VY-DR' right? Dutch for father is VAAH-DR. It only works written down.
Anyhow...brilliant site Kurgan...reading everything at the moment.

I still think every 'Sith' name like Vader has something to do with a menacing word. Pleigus - Plague , Sidious- Insidious , Maul (speaks for itself), Tyrannus - Tyrant. Etc etc.

noizer
08-22-2010, 02:22 PM
Vader is not father in Dutch. You pronounce Vader as 'VY-DR' right? Dutch for father is VAAH-DR. It only works written down.
Anyhow...brilliant site Kurgan...reading everything at the moment.

I still think every 'Sith' name like Vader has something to do with a menacing word. Pleigus - Plague , Sidious- Insidious , Maul (speaks for itself), Tyrannus - Tyrant. Etc etc.

yes thats true. it only works written down.

truJedi
08-22-2010, 07:27 PM
Darth VADER ..... INVADER ..palpatine gave him this name because he invaded the jedi
temple, thats what i read somewhere :)

Kurgan
08-22-2010, 08:43 PM
Yep, as cool as all those theories are, it's quite simply Gary Vader, a real human being from Lucas' youth, not "INvader," or Dark Father, etc. Even the "Son of the Suns" and Hebrew words on Vader's chest plate turn out not to be all that on further examination. But we fans like to follow those rabbit trails, don't we? ;)

Those are simply happy coincidences after the fact. I bet if Lucas had used one of the other randomly generated names for the character, we'd likely be sitting here repeating alternate lore about its significance and foretelling of future events in the saga. ;) It's just that "mythical quality" given to the franchise (for better or for worse) and massive popularity that fuels such things.

Ztalker
08-23-2010, 06:29 PM
Yep, as cool as all those theories are, it's quite simply Gary Vader, a real human being from Lucas' youth, not "INvader," or Dark Father, etc. Even the "Son of the Suns" and Hebrew words on Vader's chest plate turn out not to be all that on further examination. But we fans like to follow those rabbit trails, don't we? ;)

Those are simply happy coincidences after the fact. I bet if Lucas had used one of the other randomly generated names for the character, we'd likely be sitting here repeating alternate lore about its significance and foretelling of future events in the saga. ;) It's just that "mythical quality" given to the franchise (for better or for worse) and massive popularity that fuels such things.

You're right...it seems so...strange to see some epic pop-culture being named after an actual person without further meaning.
It's not unheard of though...Harry Potter was named after a colleague of the writer. Very un-epic :)

PatPal
06-24-2013, 02:50 PM
I happen to know that Lucas went to Downey High School and so did my brother and I---- Our last name is Vader and George named his characters after people he knew. Ztalker you are correct, Gary Vader went to high school with him.

john74
01-02-2014, 11:45 AM
I read that it's only a personal interpretation so hence it remains a comment - is that "Darth Vader" was originally just a proper name; first name "Darth", surname "Vader". This seems supported by Ben's "only a master of evil, Darth" answer, although one could argue that Ben may have been addressing him by a title (which - to me - seems odd for a Jedi to do to a Sith). – Jimmy Shelter Dec 18 '12 at 9:06
There are persistent rumors that Vader was from "invader".