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{TheChosenOne}
08-14-2006, 02:01 AM
I was wondering numerous things about OJP and started to talk with JR and UDM about these idea.

First Idea
My first idea about OJP was to have mandatory models such as MB2 has shown.

By mandatory models I mean models that already come with the game.

Example:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l209/mergalthorpe/shot0002.jpg

As UDM put it, MB2 stole their models more or less. Stolen or not this is a very valuable thing to have, models already in the game so you can distinguish the different models. That way you won't see a constant flow of Kyle in the game. It would give a certain look to the mod if there was a difference in models(Since its probably not likely that out of all the JKA models you have dl'd it to see what it is).

If need be if this idea is given a thumbs up I would go to each individual Modeler and ask premission to use their models. I mean I know I wouldn't mind seeing these models ingame :king1:
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Omeewans_Jedi_Skin_Pack_V1;59791

Again I would ask Omeewan personally for use of these models in the example above for use in this mod until you can get modelers of your own to make suitable models. Hell I'd take up modeling on the side just to help with this mod with mandatory models so I don't have to fight Kyles all the time :)

Second Idea
As same with models, same with lightsaber effects. I'm not sure if OJP has any special saber effects since mine are still left over from base but if not I can't see why this would hurt :)

Examples:
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Episode_2_Blades;21951


Stuff like that makes the core of the blade thicker and more prominant. This is just an example and again if given the thumbs up I would personally ask these guys/gals for their premission.

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Better_Saber_Clash_Effect;58270

This would give the saber clash effect so it looks more movie like instead of balls of fire coming off you whenever you're hit :blast5:

Third Idea
Once again, as such with the saber effects and models, maps. This would again bring OJP away from the base feel of those crappily made base maps.

Maps such as Kamino would brush off the base jka roots and bring OJP a face of its own. Again if given the thumbs up I would ask premission to use this until you can make maps suitable for OJP. Yet again if need be I'd take up mapping if you are in need of it.
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Kamino;29228

Thats all my ideas for OJP atm but thanks for checking out my ideas. Oh and thanks for the breath of fresh air from MB2.

Lathain Valtiel
08-14-2006, 02:39 AM
I must say no to mandatory models. It drastically inflates the filesize of the mod, and unlike Movie Battles or various Siege maps which require those models to distinguish between classes, they serve no purpose here.

OJP has no business deciding what are the best effects for users to use. The only thing it should even consider doing on this front is creating functions to allow users to choose their own saber blades from a menu or from .sab files.

Really, there is 'no' point in including any of what you've listed in the installation package. At very best there should only be a list of stuff the OJP people recommend.

Vruki Salet
08-14-2006, 02:47 AM
Lathain I'm putting those MBII sabers in with a client cvar to toggle whether to use them or base sabers, and cvars to let you set your own core thickness and glow thickness for the mb2 sabers - just on the topic of effects choice.

It's all ready to go.

{TheChosenOne}
08-14-2006, 02:52 AM
I must say no to mandatory models. It drastically inflates the filesize of the mod, and unlike Movie Battles or various Siege maps which require those models to distinguish between classes, they serve no purpose here.
While the average wook may serve no purpose here I think a choice of 30 jedi that are mandatory that everyone can see would be really help give this mod a "face". It would make it stand away from the base feel.

Also while the implementation of these items might make the mod file size bigger it would definitly be worth it imo. I mean people download the "big" file size of MB2 and its pretty successful. :smash:

OJP has no business deciding what are the best effects for users to use.
No but any effect is better than the crappy base effects. I bet everyone here has downloaded different effects because the original effects were...."lacking".

Really, there is 'no' point in including any of what you've listed in the installation package.
No there is "no point" to adding what I listed as it isn't needed but it would definitly give this mod individuality. Idk about you but I hate base and the feel to base. If this was implemented I would strongly think this mod would be far from that "base" feel.

Even if this isn't a type of mandatory thing, you could offer an OJP seperate pack for download with the stuff I listed so everyone atleast has the general skin/map/effect outline.

Lathain Valtiel
08-14-2006, 02:52 AM
Vruki: *Shrug* I never ironed out all the bugs, but be my guest.

{TheChosenOne}
08-14-2006, 03:06 AM
Also like MB2 did it, the files could be seperated.(Maps and such)

Also if you think by mandatory models I mean unchanging I think you misunderstood me :)

It can still be changed via replacement packs such as MB2 has shown.

JRHockney*
08-14-2006, 03:32 AM
Eventually, we would probably like to do alot of what your discribing, but we really need a direction first that would help make us decide what models and maps to have. I suppose we could just make or add whatever comes to mind, but right now we are mostly just a gameplay feature mod.

Heres are a few bits for infomation that I didnt give you at the code server that are essential to understanding OJP and its forums:

OJP has two different mods: Enhanced (which you played) and basic (which has many OJP features but the saber combat is the same as Base)

The Basic players here at the forum are:
Lathain
Vruki (although he helps us Enhanced players alot)
Kurgan
Paro
and a fleet of others who dont post much.

The Enhanced players are:
Me
Sushi
UDM
EDIT: Jack Baldy
Maxstate (paddy)
Maxstates buddies who dont post much
Razorace (who mods for both but is mostly an Enhanced player)
And a few others like Tapela, Buffy, Tanquexe, Grevier, and Mog who also dont post much.

UDM
08-14-2006, 04:27 AM
You've forgotten about Jackbaldy

Regarding your post Chosen (I hope your ego doesn't expand too much lol...'Chosen' does sound flattering though)

1) Yeah like Hocks and I were saying, if there was a singleplayer campaign, we may do new models. Also, Razor has hinted that he's interested in an SP campaign, probably one that takes place during the cartoon network Clone Wars period, but no fixed plans yet, so it could be anything. But hey, you're welcome to use any models with OJP. I personally like Vader, though his cape kind of blocks a good portion of the combat

2) Contact Maxstate or Vruki Salet. Both have created saber blades specifically for OJP. Maxstate made the saber tips rounder, and the glow smoother, but this works only for the RGB sabers. Vruki took the saber blades from MB2 and implemented them here. The difference is that they look longer, less stout. Btw, Maxstate has also created some new animations for the different stances to more or less simulate the movies. Contact either him or me if you want them.

After my exams, I plan to create a repository to host third party addons for OJP

3) You're welcome to use any maps with OJP. I actually like to play OJP in the JK2 maps, which you can download off the net. Look at Kurgan's signature

Lathain Valtiel
08-14-2006, 06:37 AM
For the record... I'm the one who came up with how to put in the SFX Sabers into OJP and not annihilate the RGB Sabers in the process (yeesh, I'm not even MENTIONED in any of the cases where this is brought up... ahahahahaha). Vruki compiled it and found out what the hell the SFX author was using to determine his trail lengths. I STILL say the code is hackish and no sane man would use it, but I digress.

On that note... the weapons in question ARE NOT MB2 saber blades. They are actually called SFX Sabers, what happened was that MB2 simply integrated them into their mod, other than that from what I understand they have nothing to do with MB2.

I have no inherent issue with the suggestions, I just REALLY don't want them put into the mod installation packs for previously stated reasons of general pointlessness and the ever-present concept of 'bloat'.

Vruki Salet
08-14-2006, 11:00 AM
Are you the same ChosenOne who made or makes the Jedi Academy server mod(s)?

Vruki Salet
08-14-2006, 11:07 AM
the weapons in question ARE NOT MB2 saber blades

Really? I'll change the references in the code to SFX Sabers instead of MBII SABER TRAILS.

Lathain Valtiel
08-14-2006, 12:46 PM
No, he's not that Chosen One, that guy has posted on the forums under a differently formatted alias.

As for SFX Sabers... well, I'll say this much: The directory is named SFX_Sabers for a reason. That and I very much doubt the blades appeared in MB2 before this thread:

http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=128488&highlight=SFX+Sabers

Vruki Salet
08-14-2006, 01:01 PM
The directory could just as well be named SFX_Sabers because the guy who programmed it felt like it. For all I knew, since I never saw that thread before, his name was Samuel Franxis Xavier. There's nothing inherent in "SFX" to tell me that it wasn't originally developed for MBII, so it's not such a stupid thing to not know that it wasn't.

Maxstate
08-14-2006, 01:51 PM
Hi Chosen!

Nice to see you step with one foot into the light, there have been a few before you, my plan seems to be working! :P
If you have any questions about the mod, want to spar or want some lessons:
arminhalilovic@hotmail.com

I can also send you the animation replacements (Tireces' Theatrics that I made to work with OJP) and my custom saber blades (RGB as UDM said, means you can make your own colour "Red Green Blue"). Here are some pics if you're interested:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0140.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0400.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0118.jpg

About your ideas, I agree with the models, not for the sake of distinguishing classes but for the sake of not seeing everyone as "Kyle". To avoid big packs like Lath said we could release them in seperate packs, and if Razor doesn't want them we can always just go ahead and call it a Community Expansion ;)

About the sabers, Raze doesn't want any kind of sabers in the game currently (as far as I know) untill he doesn't get some kind of changer so people can select what they like.

I also agree on the maps.

Paro
08-14-2006, 03:32 PM
I think all non-base maps,models, etc. should be presented as optional addons.

crail227
08-14-2006, 07:23 PM
i want to see a choice between team colors and no team colors

UDM
08-15-2006, 02:48 AM
I think all non-base maps,models, etc. should be presented as optional addons.
There's always jk2files if anyone wants to use them with ojp

Paro
08-15-2006, 04:27 AM
UDM wrote:
There's always jk2files if anyone wants to use them with ojp
That's exactly my point.

{TheChosenOne}
08-16-2006, 06:04 AM
No thanks on the saber effects Maxstate but I appreciate the offer, I have some of my own.

As I see it currently OJP doesn't have a "face". Its bland imo, its just a gameplay enhancement(a good one at that :) ). If the above was implemented it would seperate OJP from the base feel and give it individuality. It would make it more popular imo. Also who wouldn't want to play as Anakin or Obi-Wan and duel on Mustafar? :smash:

As it is I dislike base maps and the base HUD. LucasArts did a terrible job mapping when comparing to the many mappers out there such as Sith J Cull. Their maps blow the base maps out of the water. So instead of fighting on generic landing platform or other various bland duel places we could play on/in Mygeeto, the Death Star, Kamino, etc.

As for the mandatory models. I think most of you misunderstood me. Those type of models can be overwritten for your own personal use. MB2 has something called replacement packs where it replaces the current mandatory models with models of the replacement pack creators choice. So if JRHockney didn't want Darth Maul he could replace it with his Jack Sparrow model.

Maxstate
08-16-2006, 06:12 AM
No thanks on the saber effects Maxstate but I appreciate the offer, I have some of my own.

As I see it currently OJP doesn't have a "face". Its bland imo, its just a gameplay enhancement(a good one at that :) ). If the above was implemented it would seperate OJP from the base feel and give it individuality. It would make it more popular imo. Also who wouldn't want to play as Anakin or Obi-Wan and duel on Mustafar? :smash:

As it is I dislike base maps and the base HUD. LucasArts did a terrible job mapping when comparing to the many mappers out there such as Sith J Cull. Their maps blow the base maps out of the water. So instead of fighting on generic landing platform or other various bland duel places we could play on/in Mygeeto, the Death Star, Kamino, etc.

As for the mandatory models. I think most of you misunderstood me. Those type of models can be overwritten for your own personal use. MB2 has something called replacement packs where it replaces the current mandatory models with models of the replacement pack creators choice. So if JRHockney didn't want Darth Maul he could replace it with his Jack Sparrow model.

To get a face we first need a new hud, splash screens and more things like that. I bring news that Plasma is currently working on a very very beautiful hud for OJP that will tear it away from it's base roots significantly.

I present you... THE BETA HEALTH HUD:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/lefthud.jpg

keshire
08-16-2006, 06:39 AM
As UDM put it, MB2 stole their models more or less.


Thats a very bold statement.

Maxstate
08-16-2006, 06:55 AM
I have to comment on the map thing, Raven or whoever did it were very very good at making nice looking textures. I think if the parallax/specular on this texture : http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0177.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0178.jpg

moved as the player did that they would look very oblivion-esque.

Some more pics:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0179.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0180.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0182.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0184.jpg

And for ****s:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0183.jpg


Update on the Hud:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/Maxstate/shot0010.jpg

Go Plasma!

Emiel Regis
08-16-2006, 07:08 AM
As UDM put it, MB2 stole their models more or less.

You're a fool Chosen and you always will be one. But please don't infect another forum with your pathetic flame threads.

Paro
08-16-2006, 08:38 AM
Emiel Regis wrote:
You're a fool Chosen and you always will be one. But please don't infect another forum with your pathetic flame threads.

Clearly there are some hardcore mb2 fans on this forum but please IGNORE posts/texts that say something against Your 'relic of faith' (mb2). This forum is not about mb2, it's about OJP so keep on topic.

Emiel Regis
08-16-2006, 08:46 AM
Clearly there are some hardcore mb2 fans on this forum but please IGNORE posts/texts that say something against Your 'relic of faith' (mb2). This forum is not about mb2, it's about OJP so keep on topic.

Yes, I know what this forum is about. But as MB developer I feel offended by pathetic lies like the one I quoted. BTW, why do you put MB competing against OJP...? Those two have different goals and shouldn't be compared in any mather.

Not to mention many MB team members were OJP contributors aswell and other way round.

ACiDuS
08-16-2006, 09:50 AM
Mb2 ask permission for the use of models, just as chosen suggests OJP do if this idea were to be adopted. The accusation that we stole them all is pretty offensive.

OJP and MB2 have always been close as mods, in no small part due to the amount of shared team members.

There is no rivalry between the 2 mods, nor should there be. We are aiming for different goals.

I would appreciate it if people would not try to create such a rivalry with lies such as the one posted here, or hateful rants such as the one Maxstate posted in the saber discussion thread.

There's room enough for both mods, and I'm sure Razor wouldn't want you going around causing trouble on his behalf, or ruining the friendly relationship we have both enjoyed for such a long time.

Clearly there are some hardcore mb2 fans on this forum but please IGNORE posts/texts that say something against Your 'relic of faith' (mb2). This forum is not about mb2, it's about OJP so keep on topic.


This is most likely because Maxstate has been actively campaigning upon our own forums lately, directing people here.

Vruki Salet
08-16-2006, 10:19 AM
Everyone please go along with what ACiDuS just said. Mod rivalry is counterproductive and silly, especially silly when the mod creators aren't even enemies themselves.

The population of JKA players must be dwindling as time goes by. Noone's going to have a big enough group left to justify a server if we fracture it up more by fighting between fans different mods or styles of gameplay. And that goes even if you don't like the guys who hang at the other mod's forum, or don't like their server's made-up rules or lack of them or whatever.

Emiel Regis
08-16-2006, 10:32 AM
The other way around mostly, OJP came before MB.

And to Paro: +1.


REALLY? But who was co-lead (as far as I remember) and one of main coders? Renegade was. And who was the animator guy? Keshire. Of course what they did then was for OJP, since MB didnt exist that time.

Paro
08-16-2006, 10:38 AM
Please take Your problems elsewhere, this is not the place/thread/forum for it.

UDM
08-16-2006, 11:15 AM
^Wow lol nicely put Paro :)

I'm sorry when I used the word 'stolen' when talking to Chosen, though I had used it more subtly in conversation - 'stolen...or actually borrowed' or something along those lines was what I said. So for the misunderstanding, I apologise

Emiel, I understand the concern. If you're not happy with what one posts about mb2 in another forum, settle it thru PM with any involved parties or razor. 2 wrongs dont make one right, there's little you can achieve by coming in here and trying to justify things yourself

ACiDuS
08-16-2006, 01:06 PM
Emiel, I understand the concern. If you're not happy with what one posts about mb2 in another forum

If the accusation is posted publically, its only reasonable that the correction be equally public. I would rather not leave people with the mistaken impression that mb2 stole all of the content. Permission was asked, and credit given.

Clearly there are some hardcore mb2 fans on this forum but please IGNORE posts/texts that say something against Your 'relic of faith' (mb2). This forum is not about mb2, it's about OJP so keep on topic.

To be fair, it is ojp forum members (in this case Maxstate) that have come to the MB2 forums with the sole intent of directing people here, and promoting OJP in many threads.

{TheChosenOne}
08-16-2006, 01:21 PM
You're a fool Chosen and you always will be one. But please don't infect another forum with your pathetic flame threads.

Looks like someone is infecting my thread with pathetic flames.....Also reread this entire thread, I never flamed anyone or anything once.

Sigh......You MB2 people.....You call me a ****ing parasite and yet you ****ing follow me and post in MY thread. If you hate me so much than don't post in my thread nor notice me. I am trying as best as I can to move AWAY from MB2. Obviously if you had any level of reading comprehension the point of this thread wasn't about "TEH STOLENZ MODELZ" it was an idea about OJP.

I NEVER said your models were stolen for the record.

Jesus, I mentioned one word about MB2 and here comes the calvary and everyone taking it entirely too offensive. The "stolen" part wasn't the topic nor the idea of this thread.

Please for all that is holy, get back on topic......

The HUD looks really good Max.

UDM
08-16-2006, 01:24 PM
If the accusation is posted publically, its only reasonable that the correction be equally public. I would rather not leave people with the mistaken impression that mb2 stole all of the content. Permission was asked, and credit given.

I understand. I think we could settle this amicably by having Chosen edit his posts. Again, I apologise for him quoting that part of our conversation. I agree that the 2 teams...well mb team and ojp community actually, should continue to co-exist in harmony. No doubt that content has been shared by both parties; let's not let this put a strain on the relationship, after all resources in the JKA community are rather limited

{TheChosenOne}
08-16-2006, 01:32 PM
I understand. I think we could settle this amicably by having Chosen edit his posts. Again, I apologise for him quoting that part of our conversation. I agree that the 2 teams...well mb team and ojp community actually, should continue to co-exist in harmony. No doubt that content has been shared by both parties; let's not let this put a strain on the relationship, after all resources in the JKA community are rather limited

I refuse to edit my post regardless. It shouldn't have been taken so harshly, and it shouldn't have gone this far. For that matter it should never have been posted on this forum. If you have a problem with what you or I say then take it to PM's.

that's just one example, it's getting so.. friggin.. old.

Lol, you're talking to THE CHOSEN ONE on the MB2 forums buddy. All I get is **** and hate on that forum. For example just 2 seconds ago some asswipe said he wanted to punch me. It gets to the point of pure frustration to have such an idiotic and childish community. Its like an orphanage where the kids have free run. I am tired of it. The MAIN reason I am looking into OJP so highly is to get away from the MB2 community for the moment.

ACiDuS
08-16-2006, 01:38 PM
I am posting here purely because emiel did max, although I understand his reasons for doing so. It is not a matter for pm when someone publicly states that mb2 are thieves.

Given that you've deleted your posts, I guess the replies should also go. *poof*

I understand. I think we could settle this amicably by having Chosen edit his posts. Again, I apologise for him quoting that part of our conversation. I agree that the 2 teams...well mb team and ojp community actually, should continue to co-exist in harmony.

I sincerely hope that continues to be the case :) None of the problems seem to be related to OJP nor your community, rather 2 disgruntled ex-mb2 players acting on its behalf.(max/chosen)

Maxstate
08-16-2006, 01:57 PM
You know what Acidus?

You win, I give, I'm sick of this bs. PM me or get my MSN from my profile but I just will not allow this to happen here.

Deleting my posts as we speak.

{TheChosenOne}
08-16-2006, 02:00 PM
None of the problems seem to be related to OJP nor your community, rather 2 disgruntled ex-mb2 players acting on its behalf.

Sigh....I am not a disgruntled MB2 player. Nor do I think UDM is, if anything UDM just prefers OJP over MB2 he doesn't hate it. I never said anything that would imply I dislike the mod nor did I hint that I thought your models were "stolen". I was using UDM's words as an example of other mods success with such an idea of mandatory models.


Offtopic:

Pretty cool smiley :stick: , lol.

ACiDuS
08-16-2006, 02:19 PM
Have fun with chosen 1 by the way, just remember not to feed him after dark :D

JRHockney*
08-16-2006, 04:05 PM
WHOA! Did I miss something here? LOL!

Ok, just a few things:

First of all, everyone be more careful of your wording especailly when it pertains to MB2. Remember, we are still Affiliates of theirs, and proud ones at that. Paro, you probably didnt know that, so just keep that in mind.

Secondly, any feature put in MB2 or OJP is not stolen by any means just to make that clear. As mentioned above, permission is always asked before the usage of features.

Thirdly, any more flaming or even borderline flaming and I'm closing this thread. Like I've said before, I'd rather not do that because closing a thread signifies that our forum is becoming less mature (and no that is not a shot against MB2, it just means their community has alot of younger players meaning its more neccessary there... and its alot bigger...(starts sobbing) :p) and it has never been done in the entire time I've posted here. Thanks for deleting some of your posts to those who did it.

Fourthly, good avatar choice Acidus! thats my old avatar! LOL. I almost thought those were my posts for a second there.

{TheChosenOne}
08-16-2006, 04:34 PM
Have fun with chosen 1 by the way, just remember not to feed him after dark :D

Only on weekends :smash:

I'll still play MB2 and check in with the community ACiDuS, to see the news on new builds, possible features, general talk, etc. So don't give me the chop yet. :chop1:

First of all, everyone be more careful of your wording especailly when it pertains to MB2. Remember, we are still Affiliates of theirs, and proud ones at that. Paro, you probably didnt know that, so just keep that in mind.

Secondly, any feature put in MB2 or OJP is not stolen by any means just to make that clear. As mentioned above, permission is always asked before the usage of features.
I already knew this, as did UDM most likely. People probably got rubbed the wrong way and as seen threw a hissy fit over nothing.

The term stole when I quoted UDM was in no way,shape, or form an insult or a degrading statement. I used the quote as a loaded word to get my point across that as much as MB2 can ask for models, OJP can too.

UDM
08-16-2006, 04:44 PM
Take it as a lesson learnt. Subtlety is the key here. Also, if you're going to quote me, please, quote the entire sentence heh

{TheChosenOne}
08-16-2006, 05:17 PM
Take it as a lesson learnt. Subtlety is the key here. Also, if you're going to quote me, please, quote the entire sentence heh

Will do but don't blame me if the battle horn of Rohan is blown for the MB2 calvary members to come chargin' in. :indif:

JRHockney*
08-16-2006, 05:56 PM
Watch it, Chosen. Some of your wording on our passed two posts might easily be taken the wrong way and I've warned about borderline flaming. I will not have the "horn of Rohan" being blown again on this thread after I've already given a warning. The issue under scrutiny is closed and I expect no more retallitory remarks of ANY kind no matter how subtle. Please get this thread back on track of discussing features if it still needs to be discussed.