PDA

View Full Version : We need more feedback for saber hits and parries + limited lives.


Maxstate
09-03-2006, 04:16 PM
All we have now is moving bars which I know many of us don't even pay attention too lately. We need sounds , graphical items or certain animations to play for when you get hit, parry or hit someone yourself.

The "Shhh" sound of a saber cauterizing flesh would maybe form a good indicator in how much you hit someone for example?

As of now, I don't really feel imminent death. I don't really feel like my life ingame is worth anything. Partially that might be because you have inifinite respawns. The other part is that death always comes when you least expect it.

Even when low on DP you can almost always just jump out of the way, run, push, whatever without any reprecussions. But most of us don't do that, because we don't know what kind of state we're in. Most of us don't even pay attention to the bars but wait for whenever they see their character dodge and know that that's their cue to run.
If a class system is going to be implemented and the game is to be round-based like MBII then we need to have more signs of fatigue, more signs of good direct hits, more signs of low hp/dp/fp, more indicators to how or how much I just hit my opponent or my opponent just hit me.

Setting aside hit-feedback I would like to discuss the "Siege" matter further.

FFA is not what we should be aiming for, Siege is. Siege and CoOP.
Eyes should now become focused at how we can improve the Siege game mode. We already got a ****load of bugfixes, a new saber system, more balanced force powers, a new hud, better animations.. combine what we have now with the gameplay of Siege!

It could be brilliant! What is played primarily now is either FFA or CoOP.
FFA gets boring quickly. Fighting bots proves to be no challenge after some time and dueling the same person over and over again is also not fun.
And this isn't the case for OJP, if you were to strip MBII down to what OJP has now, or at least to be similar then I sincerely think OJP would keep people busier longer than MBII ever could. But lets face it; we're not there yet.
The classes JKA Siege can provide us in combination with OJP's gameplay and saber system will (I hope) bring some new players to the mod and give us a fresh breath of air from the old dueling.

Whenever I play with friends we usually end up playing CoOP. Which is a good concept. But the bots are no challenge, objectives sometimes don't work and maps sometimes crash. This doesn't mean CoOP is badly done or anything!
It's an achievement we all should be proud of, think of the work that has been stuck into it. Razor, the NPCS really need improving, is there anyway you could make the NPCs into tabbots?

Sorry, back to Siege.
"Why am I not playing siege; it's already there" you ask? Because it crashes for some reason. Because the classes don't take full advantage of what OJP can do. I'll not start of the classes because I know that that IS one of OJP's near future goals. I hope that we can all start doing some work on them very soon, it is hard I know. We currently only have Razor as a main coder, 3 or 4 on and off coders and some of them are interested in pursuing their own modding goals. Still, a begin must be made. I would like to request a "gunner" template class to be made to somehow form the tiny baby steps towards OJP's biggest goal.

A simple stormtrooper, limitations? Lower walking and running speed, access to only the pistol, e-11 and the thermals, no dodge capability. That's it. Why?
"The beginning is a very delicate time.", lets make one! Once we get started it'll all be much much easier since we know what we're up against and we'll have some experience with it already. I know I can't help much, but I'm always open to anyone needing graphical editing (photoshopping textures, skins, weapon GFX, force GFX) or simple animation replacements if anyone would need these. My request; the stormtrooper. Anyone up for it? If you ask Ace in what kind of format he would like it I'm sure he would tell you exactly how and what he needs.



For the feedback I propose so:
-
jrhockney (E-mail Address Not Verified) says:
hmmm, actually, if the fizzsound happens only when you dont parry some thing and its tacked on to a collision sound, that might be passable since alot more moves are parried now.




I'll add more by editing this post in the future as I come across ideas.

Thank you for reading, if I've missed something I'll add it later. I'm off to go play some OJP !

This post in a nutshell:

-Siege should become the main platform for this mod to grow on, though it needs adjustments, like a fix for the crashing problem that occurs for a lot of people with me included.
-More feedback for saber vs saber and saber vs gunner battles.
Sounds , graphics and the likes.
-Looking for someone to start work on a simple stormtrooper class as to form a stepping stone for future classes.
-The saber system is good as it is save for minor adjustments, we need to stop worrying about it and get on with the mod's real problems.

Oh yes, post any ideas you might have that would work as creating feedback for saberists' DP and mishap status. Me and Vruki thought it would be a good idea to base it on sound like MBII does. What about you?

Thanks :)

Post scriptum/edit:




Pull is overpowered, there's a gunner standing still infront of me shooting and I can pull him before my legs on his belly with PULL 2!

Second:
My character isn't trying to deflect all of the shots that are flung at him. Sometimes the deflect animation doesn't play, I know in MB and base the animation plays no matter how many bullets are shot at you. Please fix this.

Third:
The Disruptor does too little damage, buff it a bit. There's a gunner shooting me with it as we speak and Im still 100/100.

Fourth:
Nice! The T3 effect is present. My saber stops if a gunner shoots me while I'm swinging and it blocks it! Now all we need to do is make this a bit harder to use or make it walk only or just make it drain more DP if you get shot while slashing!

I've uploaded two demos to show you what I mean:
http://www.freefileupload.net/file....37/T3+Demos.rar
Make a folder called demos in youre enhanced folder and put the files there, then run them from ingame @ play > demo.

Fifth:
You should be able to return your saber to your hand quicker after it falls, but the speed of it returning should be slower .

Sixth
Make the jetpack more maneuverable if you're plannign on making it used.
When you press forwards it hardly responds. Maybe we could lend some animations from our MB partners as well.

Seventh
Attacking a person who isn't parrying, and just standing will actually make you get a mishap because his DP drains slower than your mishap bar rises.
I would like to see mishap not going up unless my opponent parry's my attack.

Eighth
-Lightning shouldn't knock people over, it should stun them and halt them from shooting.
-Push should knock gunners over only if they're running. They can walk and crouch to avoid getting pushed over. They will however still be pushed away.
-Pulling weapons should only work if your crosshair is on the gunnerat the time of the pull and the gunner is running.
-You should be forced to walk slowly when you grip gunners.
-Deflecting blaster shots to where your crosshair is pointing should become a buyable set of powers called "deflect". You start with 1 which enables you to deflect about 1 in every 10 or so shots. You can buy 2 to deflect more etc. etc. and this can go up to 3 maximum.

Ninth
Also I would like to point out something Hockney noticed a while ago; g_saberanimspeed 0.9 is better for gunners and saberists. It provides saberists with a sense of more control while maintaining the ultra-fast duel effect. I suggest it becomes default!

Tenth
A simple stormtrooper, limitations? Lower walking and running speed, access to only the pistol, e-11 and the thermals, no dodge capability. That's it. Why?
"The beginning is a very delicate time.", lets make one! Once we get started it'll all be much much easier since we know what we're up against and we'll have some experience with it already. I know I can't help much, but I'm always open to anyone needing graphical editing (photoshopping textures, skins, weapon GFX, force GFX) or simple animation replacements if anyone would need these. My request; the stormtrooper. Anyone up for it? If you ask Ace in what kind of format he would like it I'm sure he would tell you exactly how and what he needs.

He couldn't use it now ofcourse, but when the time comes a pre-built class is going to be a life (mod!) saver.
Most of what you need is already there; the models, the sounds. So I'm guessing that's going to mean a ****load of scripting work? Sushi? Vruki?
Again:
-Access to three weapons: E-11, pistol and thermals.
-Slightly capped run and walk speed.
-No dodge ability.

Eleventh
To continue on the matter of unlimited respawns I would like to say that 1-life jedi although a simulated threat makes it much more fun to duel or to hunt down a gunner. It makes you fear for your own life. It prohibits the player from just rushing at a gunner blazing every force power he has and swinging his saber wildly. I really think that we should get some sort of round-based games to accompany the class system if we ever get one which I'm sure we will. Now you might say that I should "Just play siege" but siege doesn't work well for me or others. It crashes often and the classes present are **** to be very honest. So this is to you razor; get us a 5-10 round based game to go with the classes, please! I know you're busy with the hud currently and the animations and I was thinking that our MB partners might be of some assistance here?



Added new things and bolded important parts.

ensiform
09-03-2006, 10:20 PM
I think limited lives should be an option, but only in siege.

JRHockney*
09-04-2006, 12:10 AM
-Fizzing and SHHH sounds when I hit someone. Deeper and longer depending on his mishap/dp status.

Fizz sounds? Where were they in the movies aside from when you landed a killing blow on someone? Sorry but Thats one feature that I personally would never want in this mod. Hping, maybe; fizz sounds (other than when you have no DP), no. Its just not realistic for every hit to have that. In fact, thats one of the features of MB2 (what happens when you hp people) that nearly spoiled that mod for me until I made my own version of the saberclashmod (that switches the fizz sounds with saberclash sounds and effects) with better sounds.

Most of us don't even pay attention to the bars but wait for whenever they see their character dodge and know that that's their cue to run.

I personally watch it almost as closely as I watch MB2s bp meter. Although I do have a harder time watching the mishap meter, just because I know iits not that big of a deal if I max out, since it resets. Thats one thing that definitely needs to change. It should only reset 1/3 or 1/2 of the way up.

I'll not start of the classes because I know that that IS one of OJP's near future goals.

Um actually, thats been more of one of our uncertain longer term goals, like post 0.1.0 goals or later. We've been mostly thinking about just creating a greater general customization, like by even having guns on the power selection menu and just having alot more points to spend on stuff. Of course we would put some barriers to limit certain combos if we find them to be over powered, but we were thinking mostly in general terms. The recent change/hack of giving a person an stronger blaster (or E-11 I think) and a jet pack is one of the steps we've taking to start creating distinction between gunner and saberist. Once we create the gun menu, we may do something like only allow jet pack for no force people or maybe only level one force people (or something like that, Im not sure).

Not that I'm opposed to making seige better here. It definitely could use some improvement. I'd also be cautious abiout what features we take from MB2. There are other ways of doing some of the things they do as well. One way me and razor have discussed a bit further is Making your ability to block force powers is based what level you have of it. If a person has 3 levels higher than you, they have full access to using force powers on you. If two levels higher, they have access to your run and jump. If One level higher, just your jump. If gunners Get the option of certain level one force powers (which they may or maynot be able to use) they can block while walking like in MB2, or they can spend their points for those on bigger guns and just snipe or shoot from a distance.

-Lightning shouldn't knock people over, it should stun them and halt them from shooting.

Awww, I kind of like that feature. Its movie realistic and a cool change, even though its overpowered at times. The recent changes we've made and changes we will make should balance it out though. We created the hand block for lightning and eventually (if not already) the length of time you can hand block will be based on your level of experience with lightning or absord. We might also want to make the time based on how fast the balance bar goes up and that speed based on your level of experience. It would resent after you fall over. Also for gunners, I think the length of time they can block is or will be based on the amount of shield they have.

Maxstate
09-04-2006, 06:55 AM
Fizz sounds? Where were they in the movies aside from when you landed a killing blow on someone? Sorry but Thats one feature that I personally would never want in this mod. Hping, maybe; fizz sounds (other than when you have no DP), no. Its just not realistic for every hit to have that. In fact, thats one of the features of MB2 (what happens when you hp people) that nearly spoiled that mod for me until I made my own version of the saberclashmod (that switches the fizz sounds with saberclash sounds and effects) with better sounds.
You can add your own comments on it, basing it on sounds isn't final :)
I've just played some B18 and they removed the fizzing sound as well, leaves me with a feeling of being disconnected from the fight :/ Seriously, we need some means of getting more feedback from the saber system.

Movie realistic doesn't always work well for games.



I personally watch it almost as closely as I watch MB2s bp meter. Although I do have a harder time watching the mishap meter, just because I know iits not that big of a deal if I max out, since it resets. Thats one thing that definitely needs to change. It should only reset 1/3 or 1/2 of the way up.

Yeah but most of us are sick and tired at watching gauges go up and down to see in what kind of state we're in. Not movie realistic and not fun.
I'm very much hoping the new hud will change that somehow, we'll see.
I still want more feedback. I want to know in what kind of state I am without even looking at my bars, same goes for my enemy. In MB people actually start running away when they're low because they fear for their lives, that's why I brought up the limited lives thing as well.


Um actually, thats been more of one of our uncertain longer term goals, like post 0.1.0 goals or later. We've been mostly thinking about just creating a greater general customization, like by even having guns on the power selection menu and just having alot more points to spend on stuff. Of course we would put some barriers to limit certain combos if we find them to be over powered, but we were thinking mostly in general terms. The recent change/hack of giving a person an stronger blaster (or E-11 I think) and a jet pack is one of the steps we've taking to start creating distinction between gunner and saberist. Once we create the gun menu, we may do something like only allow jet pack for no force people or maybe only level one force people (or something like that, Im not sure).

I think we need to do it a bit differently. No doubt we've made some good steps towards classes. But when someone asks you "What's OJP?" what do you tell him? The most simple answer is "it's base with bug fixes and a new saber system."

I want to tear us away from that. It annoys me to hell. Now if you think about what MBII has that OJP doesn't have and you exclude that things that can be arbitrary like models, maps etc. etc. then what remains is their unique approach to selecting classes which really isn't such a bad idea.

You select a class and get a number of points for it to buy guns and abilities.
It's a good system, I think we can make something better.
But we first need to rid ourselves of the whole "base look", I reckon that with a new paintjob for the menus we'll be able to say that OJP is a mod of it's own instead of just a minor modification of base!


Not that I'm opposed to making seige better here. It definitely could use some improvement. I'd also be cautious abiout what features we take from MB2. There are other ways of doing some of the things they do as well. One way me and razor have discussed a bit further is Making your ability to block force powers is based what level you have of it. If a person has 3 levels higher than you, they have full access to using force powers on you. If two levels higher, they have access to your run and jump. If One level higher, just your jump. If gunners Get the option of certain level one force powers (which they may or maynot be able to use) they can block while walking like in MB2, or they can spend their points for those on bigger guns and just snipe or shoot from a distance.
Wouldn't that make you think "Level 3 or level 0!" ?
I mean, where's the fun? You'd be switching builds to suit your opponent almost every round if you're a force user.. then you have a lack of customization since your avatar keeps changing every few minutes.

I really think that sensitivity to force should be based on DP stats like it is now. I agree with the push and pull concept of your idea but not for grip or lightning.


Awww, I kind of like that feature. Its movie realistic and a cool change, even though its overpowered at times. The recent changes we've made and changes we will make should balance it out though. We created the hand block for lightning and eventually (if not already) the length of time you can hand block will be based on your level of experience with lightning or absord. We might also want to make the time based on how fast the balance bar goes up and that speed based on your level of experience. It would resent after you fall over. Also for gunners, I think the length of time they can block is or will be based on the amount of shield they have.
We never really saw lightning 1 or 2 in the movies and I know from past SW games that they only stun and damage and don't push away like Lightning 3.

Think of Mysteries of the Sith Chain Lightning (great power btw), it hurt like a bitch but didn't push you to the ground :)
I don't know, it's just such a monster power now.

UDM
09-04-2006, 09:31 AM
Lol a little OT here, but it was funny when you, hocks, razor and I played, and I just kept spamming lightning on raze. I totally 0wned him by lightning spamming him, then running away, recharge FP then repeat lol

Maxstate
09-04-2006, 09:32 AM
Lol a little OT here, but it was funny when you, hocks, razor and I played, and I just kept spamming lightning on raze. I totally 0wned him by lightning spamming him, then running away, recharge FP then repeat lol

Yeah, that was teh shiznite.
Dude where are you, I would like your help on MSN!

Maxstate
09-04-2006, 01:09 PM
Update:

I can play Siege on internet servers no problem :o I don't know what the problem was, I think it might be solol-play only? I also remember someone saying that I had too many cfg's or pk3's in my ojp folder and that I should remove them, hope this helps for you people that can't get it working.

Siege with bots is really , really fun by the way :D

Oh yeah, we really need the kick to have extended range, it's pretty much useless as it is :(

Okay first thing Im noticing:

Pull is overpowered, there's a gunner standing still infront of me shooting and I can pull him before my legs on his belly with PULL 2!

Second:
My character isn't trying to deflect all of the shots that are flung at him. Sometimes the deflect animation doesn't play, I know in MB and base the animation plays no matter how many bullets are shot at you. Please fix this.

Third:
The Disruptor does too little damage, buff it a bit. There's a gunner shooting me with it as we speak and Im still 100/100.

Fourth:
Nice! The T3 effect is present. My saber stops if a gunner shoots me while I'm swinging and it blocks it! Now all we need to do is make this a bit harder to use or make it walk only or just make it drain more DP if you get shot while slashing!

I've uploaded two demos to show you what I mean:
http://www.freefileupload.net/file.php?file=files/040906/1157390337/T3+Demos.rar
Make a folder called demos in youre enhanced folder and put the files there, then run them from ingame @ play > demo.

Five:
You should be able to return your saber to your hand quicker after it falls, but the speed of it returning should be slower :D.

UDM
09-04-2006, 08:18 PM
But we first need to rid ourselves of the whole "base look", I reckon that with a new paintjob for the menus we'll be able to say that OJP is a mod of it's own instead of just a minor modification of base!

Easier said than done. ATM no one except myself is interested in doing the main menu. It is a serious pain to mess around with the GUI, since a lot of positioning the items is based on trial and error. I already have an idea on what to do though

Anyway there's a way to get Siege to run without crashing. Someone started a thread asking the same question and I gave the solution. It was about a month or two ago

Maxstate
09-04-2006, 09:10 PM
Easier said than done. ATM no one except myself is interested in doing the main menu. It is a serious pain to mess around with the GUI, since a lot of positioning the items is based on trial and error. I already have an idea on what to do though

Anyway there's a way to get Siege to run without crashing. Someone started a thread asking the same question and I gave the solution. It was about a month or two ago

I've found out that it has to do with 3 things:

1: The map in question.
2: Mods :/
3: Sv_pure 0.

ensiform
09-04-2006, 09:32 PM
And the fact that siege adds at least 200+ cvars to an all ready cvar cluttered game. MAX_CVARS is 1024. There is a work-a-round for this but it requires a slightly large code change.

JRHockney*
09-04-2006, 10:27 PM
Lol a little OT here, but it was funny when you, hocks, razor and I played, and I just kept spamming lightning on raze. I totally 0wned him by lightning spamming him, then running away, recharge FP then repeat lol

Thats why we've made those changes and plan to make more. Thanks UDM! LOL.

You can add your own comments on it, basing it on sounds isn't final
I've just played some B18 and they removed the fizzing sound as well, leaves me with a feeling of being disconnected from the fight :/ Seriously, we need some means of getting more feedback from the saber system.

They got rid of that awful fizzing sound?! HOORAY!!!! Man I really have to play that now!!! LOL.

Wouldn't that make you think "Level 3 or level 0!" ?
I mean, where's the fun? You'd be switching builds to suit your opponent almost every round if you're a force user.. then you have a lack of customization since your avatar keeps changing every few minutes.

Nah, if we made level 1 cheap enough or may just allow all jedi who dont use guns to automatically get level 1, I think it would be fine. It would be better than not having any accessability to people with, say, a level 3 general force block like they do in Mb2. Everyone would just get that for the most part. As long as they can easily have access to level one and block standing or walking, it would be fair enough.

I think we need to do it a bit differently. No doubt we've made some good steps towards classes. But when someone asks you "What's OJP?" what do you tell him? The most simple answer is "it's base with bug fixes and a new saber system.

The way we have considered doing this IS different. Having ultimate customization of this sort is way different from just about any other mod available. Allowing players to create their own unique brand of warrior is less limiting than having classes. Besides, MB2 is the greatest seige mod available and putting all our energy in to making our own seige mod will almost definitely fall too short of MB2 to really be worth it. Think about the time and number of modders that would require. It took three years and a ton of help to become as good as they are now. I think its best if we first put our energy into something unique that is in our grasp time and modder wise before trying to accomplish such an endevor. I personally think our more immediate future is in customization, Coop, and even, I hate to say it but, FFA of the "Honorz" sort. Last I checked, the clan JA+ FFA crowd is still bigger than MB2. We'll offer them some thing different.

UDM
09-04-2006, 11:06 PM
Hmm I just had an interesting thought

Instead of following any particular gametype out now, let's have our own. I've got an idea based on the warrior thing mentioned above, and DOTA

The game is split into 2 teams. Either Rebels or Imperials, or basically just blue/red

We could like start off as a newbie, being able to choose gunner or jedi skills, freely customisable. We are thrown into pretty huge maps with NPCs eg. stormtroopers, Tusken Raiders etc. The maps are huge, but will not take a toll on FPS.

Our job is to kill as many of these as possible. The NPCs are respawnable. As we gain more NPC kills, we also gain experience points. We can then upgrade ourselves with these new experience points. Once we feel we are ready, we take on the other players running around on the map too. Any death, whether caused by NPCs or other players, will result in loss of stats, so players do not remain all powerful once they've reached the maximum level

Now here's the best part. Both teams possess a base. Our job is to blow up the reactor core. However, it can only be effectively destroyed by players at max level. Of course, newbies with low stats can help out too, but they cannot do much damage since they just aren't powerful enough. At the end of the game, when one base is blown up, the game restarts all stats, and players start all over again

So to summarise what I'd do when I join a game:
- kill NPCs
- level up
- fight my way to the enemy base
- destroy the reactor core
- restart

If anyone's played DOTA, you'll notice the concept is pretty much similar. How's this?

razorace
09-04-2006, 11:13 PM
I'm more into making a general experience system for most of the gametypes rather than a new gametype. New gametypes require new maps to really shine and I don't think we have the people for that. Plus, what happens if noone likes it?

Maxstate
09-05-2006, 05:45 AM
The way we have considered doing this IS different. Having ultimate customization of this sort is way different from just about any other mod available. Allowing players to create their own unique brand of warrior is less limiting than having classes. Besides, MB2 is the greatest seige mod available and putting all our energy in to making our own seige mod will almost definitely fall too short of MB2 to really be worth it. Think about the time and number of modders that would require. It took three years and a ton of help to become as good as they are now. I think its best if we first put our energy into something unique that is in our grasp time and modder wise before trying to accomplish such an endevor. I personally think our more immediate future is in customization, Coop, and even, I hate to say it but, FFA of the "Honorz" sort. Last I checked, the clan JA+ FFA crowd is still bigger than MB2. We'll offer them some thing different.

I agree with the first two things, I also agree with going our own way.
But Siege already has a lot of these class things layed out. I'm telling you that noone is going to want to play OJP that much if it's just FFA and CoOP. JA+ got so big because it's great for roleplayers, it's easy, there's no complex saber system you need to learn before you can just dive right into it.

It's basically just JA + a lot of other bull**** that you don't need but is fun to see/do. And I don't really know who it's less time consuming for ace to start working on classes in FFA and CoOP while he actually has a lot of his work done in Siege. There are already classes with weapon limitations and no force in there, he would just need to make the powers/gadgets you want selectable for points that you get by killing people.

I don't really see how FFA is going to keep people busy or even simulate how the movies worked if we don't get some sort of limited lives option. What makes MBII so fun for jedi is that they actually just have 1 life per round and they need to look after it if they want to play. In current FFA you can just run around and slash untill you're out of FP or you get killed, respawn and repeat. It's boring, mindless, not fun. CoOP only stays fun for a while as too.
Me and my friends have played CoOP to death seriously, I don't know what maps we can't play blindfolded anymore.

Listen, I've gotten us permission to use a few of livingdeadjedi's maps, you may know him as the guy that made MB's DOTF, ep1 naboo and a lot of other cool maps. I just heard from Razor that he's not interested in a mapper but I'm not letting this go. We'll add his maps to the community expansion pack.
Anyway, his maps look good enough to be played in FFA even for me. If we can agree on having a limited set of lives or just one life per round (Last man standing) It'll be okay for me. But I'm not in the mood of telling all the people that say OJP is just a "slash spam fest" that they're right.

@ UDM that sounds okay too, but we should mix it more with what we already have.

UDM
09-05-2006, 01:28 PM
I'm more into making a general experience system for most of the gametypes rather than a new gametype. New gametypes require new maps to really shine and I don't think we have the people for that. Plus, what happens if noone likes it?

True

We could do a poll when we've tidied up version 0.1. I can help with the maps though, in any case

Maxstate
09-05-2006, 03:48 PM
True

We could do a poll when we've tidied up version 0.1. I can help with the maps though, in any case
We have free access and use of living dead jedi's maps now as long as we added him in the credits, though Ace says we don't need any maps or mappers. Frankly I don't give a damn, they'll be released in a community pack then because I'm telling you I (and others) want to play his maps:


http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/FFA_Episode_1_2004;30322
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Mos_Eisley_Trap;57560
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Cloud_City;58230
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Mos_Espa_Outskirts_v2;46588
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/Ancient_Outpost;68509


Lol, my first edited post reminds me of one I made at the MB Forums a few days after I joined. It got locked really fast :p

razorace
09-05-2006, 07:48 PM
...A OJP community map pack would be nice. However, we'd need to have someone admin the package since I simply don't have the time. Plus, we'd have to have some standards in terms of what we'd accept.

Sushi_CW
09-05-2006, 11:48 PM
...and some of us would appreciate it if those standards included paying at least some attention to how framerate-intensive the map is. There are some very pretty maps out there that those of us on slower computers just can't handle. :(

UDM
09-06-2006, 02:38 AM
I agree. Caulk and visportals are our friends :)

JRHockney*
09-06-2006, 04:21 AM
...and some of us would appreciate it if those standards included paying at least some attention to how framerate-intensive the map is. There are some very pretty maps out there that those of us on slower computers just can't handle. :(

Agreed. I get like 5 fps in some areas of that ancient outpost map. LOL

UDM
09-06-2006, 04:38 AM
The problem is, Q3's default engine wasn't optimized for large outdoor areas. CoD pulled it off because the developers really put in a lot of effort into tweaking the engine

It's been a long time since I last mapped, about a year and a half, but technically, I think an outdoors map can have a good FPS with things to limit the LOD eg. fog (Hoth) and visportals

People said Doom 3 can't have outdoors environments. A modder, BloodRayne, from the D3 community, proved them wrong by creating fogging effects that limit distance viewed. Added to that, he also used an ambient lighting shader to create a bright outdoors environment that is semi-independent of light brushes. So I guess that large outdoors environments are possible in Q3 engine, given the right resources

Which unfortunately we don't have atm :(

razorace
09-06-2006, 04:49 AM
That's why the Unreal engine is the best in the business.

But we still love JKA's engine, it gets us where we want for most stuff.

Maxstate
09-06-2006, 05:02 AM
This is also true about the low fps, but you don't HAVE to play these maps you know, it's just an option too and it will attract loads of other people that CAN play it :)

RenegadeOfPhunk
09-07-2006, 03:16 PM
Before I start, hi OJP peeps. It's been a while, but B18 has bought me back to the world of JKA temporarily.
It's great to see that things are thriving here.

I'm trying to look at a better way to restart rounds for the LMS system in MBII. Currently, it's laggy. If I can work it out, OJP is more than welcome to the new implementation - if you want an LMS system that is. I guess it depends on where you guys are planning to take OJP. But anyway - the offer is there...


Maxstate,
I'm only going to say this once.

You said these two things within the same post at the start of this thread:


I know you're busy with the hud currently and the animations and I was thinking that our MB partners might be of some assistance here?



And this isn't the case for OJP, if you were to strip MBII down to what OJP has now, or at least to be similar then I sincerely think OJP would keep people busier longer than MBII ever could.


So let me get this straight - after all the flat-out insults you've poured out against MBII in these forums over various posts, you still expect some help from us?
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't give a flying toss what you think of the mod. But this double-standard is vile.

I consider both OJP and MBII great mods in their own right. And I'm very glad to see OJP doing so well. I'll talk with the current team and make sure OJP has access to B18 code if it can be of any help - depending on which way you want to take the mod. I'd even like to think that MBII members would help out with porting anything over if it doesn't take up too much time.

But I'd ask - in return - that the next time you feel like an anti-MBII rant, bring it to the MBII forums, rather than wasting bandwidth here. I have no idea why you are obsessed with OJP 'toppeling' or 'outdoing' MBII - that's your deal. But don't do it and then mull over the possibility of help from us in return please. (Thankfully most other peeps here have a bit more tact - regardless of what they think of MBII).

Thanks.

P.S. Heh - just realised I still have mod status here... ;)

Maxstate
09-07-2006, 03:46 PM
Before I start, hi OJP peeps. It's been a while, but B18 has bought me back to the world of JKA temporarily.
It's great to see that things are thriving here.

Maxstate,
I'm only going to say this once.

You said these two things within the same post at the start of this thread:





So let me get this straight - after all the flat-out insults you've poured out against MBII in these forums, you still expect some help from us?
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't give a flying toss what you think of the mod. But this double-standard is vile.

I consider both OJP and MBII great mods in their own right. And I'm very glad to see OJP doing so well. I'll talk with the current team and make sure OJP has access to B18 code if they think it can be any of it can help - depending on which way you want to take the mod. I'd even like to think that MBII members would help out with porting anything over if it doesn't take up too much time.(Specifically on the subject of this thread, I'm trying to look at a better way to restart rounds for the LMS system. Currently, it's laggy. If I can work it out, OJP is more than welcome to the new implementation - if you want an LMS system that is...)

But I'd ask - in return - that the next time you feel like an anti-MBII rant, bring it to the MBII forums, rather than wasting bandwidth here. I have no idea why you are obsessed with OJP 'toppeling' or 'outdoing' MBII - that's your deal. But don't do it and then mull over the possibility of help from us in return please.

Thanks.

P.S. Heh - just realised I still have mod status here... ;)

I actually excused myself from all the offending I did when Acidus came here with Chosenone if I remember it all okay. I don't want any beef with you or MB or their team or whoever and you have to understand that I only said that to hold up some spirits and hopes that I know need them including myself. Because I really can't find a reason to keep looking for **** like servers, modelers, modders for this if it's going to go unnappreciated and I need something to support on. Be it my own words or someone else's.

I'll delete what I said if you want because I really didn't mean any disrespect, as I said I think I apologised and withdrew from the discussions I had here with members of the MB team. I've also had long talks with some of them and explained my situation. If this hasn't come through to you I'll repeat it again:
I'm sorry. Check your forums and see for yourself that I haven't made any bad claims about MB for the past 2 months. I have nothing against you, or at least nothing that's worth mentioning.

I also don't want OJP to topple anything over, I understand that we're after different goals here. I also understand why MBII has a big active community now and I understand how we can come to that point too eventually.

I am interested in "outdoing" MBII but in different areas. How do you suppose we get new players to play our mod instead of MBII? Are you saying that OJP should just remain how it is now are you just referring to OJP's current status as "underdog mod" ? Yes I am interested in outdoing MB. I'm interested in showing my old MBII friends that there's another way you can have movie-like experiences and epic duels. And why is this bad? Are you afraid I'm going to steal your players or something? Sheesh..

And for your information I have brought several rants to the MB forums but they fall on deaf ears. Also ranting wouldn't be quite the right word as I was just pointing out the things I didn't like about MBII and it so happened to be on a different mod's forum. Also has anyone noticed that the word "rivalry" hasn't even come up before more MBII players and developers started posting here? Noone here thinks it's rivalry to have a negative opinion on a mod and voice it, but that's something I haven't done in this thread. I've simply stated differences and stated how I would like them to be different than MBII.

Why does talking or having an opinion on MBII suddenly make everything worse for me and OJP? Why is my freedom of speech and the right to have an opinion suddenly revoked to non-existance because I started about MBII? You don't have any more special privileges than OJP, JA+ or any other mod has. We wouldn't be discussing this if I was talking about Lugormod or Xmod.

More so, if this is something that has to do with me then take it to pm.

You know what? I've almost had it to here with this MBII vs. OJP talk. I think you damn well knew what I meant in that post but it seems to be a sport to totally piss me over these days. Goddamnit I am so sick of this bull**** all the time! What do you want to get with your post really? What do you want to achieve? Am I really such a bad person for not liking MBII and voicing my opinion? I might be one out of 30.000 that doesn't like it, why can't you people concentrate on the 29.999 that do and less one the one that doesn't since you're not getting anything from clogging up threads with useless posts which will (I'm certain - this post is proof) undoubtedly instigate pseudo-flames. Take it to pm if you have anything more to say. I am seriously dying to hear more of how I should stop disliking MB for the sake of the OJP community.

Jesus, I'm sorry.. I might as well just stop posting all together.

I feel like saying more, a lot more... if you still feel the need to reply to this then take it to PM as I'm not going to counter anything. I'm not going to make a spamfest out of this thread.

RenegadeOfPhunk
09-07-2006, 04:05 PM
OK - well if your taking back much of what you said, then that's fine. And perhaps this is all besides the point. But anyway, I'll respond to your post. This is all still relavent really, because this is also about where OJP goes from here...


I am interested in "outdoing" MBII but in different areas. How do you suppose we get new players to play our mod instead of MBII? Are you saying that OJP should just remain how it is now are you just referring to OJP's current status as "underdog mod" ? Yes I am interested in outdoing MB. I'm interested in showing my old MBII friends that there's another way you can have movie-like experiences and epic duels. And why is this bad? Are you afraid I'm going to steal your players or something? Sheesh..


I don't care that that is you're aim. I care that it's your aim whilst suggesting that MBII could help OJP out.

My ideal would be to have MBII and OJP players of equal amounts happily playing on servers.
If this is not a vision you share, then - again - fine. But I'll humbly ask you don't elude to our helping you towards that goal! And you bet I have every right to talk against that idea publically on these forums. I've personally contributed to OJP, I've never said anything bad about it, and I've made all MBII code avaliable to it. I think I've earned my floor-space - don't you?
I'm not afraid you're going to steal players. I'm pointing out the irony of talking like you want to, then talking about assistance from us in practically the same breath!

As far as where OJP goes from here, I see the pro's and con's of both arguments. If you do want to go for a class-like system, then yes - making it a siege mod gives you a lot of stuff for free. It makes sense. But we have done a lot of coding on the siege side to be honest. Especially for open mode. (Base jka siege is 'fixed' classes. It takes a bit of effort just to break that and have a bit of cutomisability...) We've done so much now that, if you were to put the same effort into other gametypes, you could still have a very good class-based system.

So you can do it either way I think. But you're right to say that going the siege root will get you there a bit faster. And I still think you can distinguish yourselves from MBII in various ways.
...the other advantage in going the siege route is that you can more easiely port MBII code over - which is freely avaliable to you.


And for your information I have brought several rants to the MB forums but they fall on deaf ears. Also ranting wouldn't be quite the right word as I was just pointing out the things I didn't like about MBII and it so happened to be on a different mod's forum.


Well, we must both have different definitions of ranting I guess.
And 'in your opinion' it falls on deaf ears.


Also has anyone noticed that the word "rivalry" hasn't even come up before more MBII players and developers started posting here?


I don't really think there is a rivalry now - not a general one. But OJP <-> MBII comparisons have always been around since they both existed. You're just one of the more vocal ones. At least you used to be (if your change of attitude is genuine...)


Noone here thinks it's rivalry to have a negative opinion on a mod and voice it...


Nor do I. It means you're voicing a personal opinion. Thankfully, you don't (or didn't) speak for OJP as a whole.


Why does talking or having an opinion on MBII suddenly make everything worse for me and OJP? Why is my freedom of speech and the right to have an opinion suddenly revoked to non-existance because I started about MBII? You don't have any more special privileges than OJP, JA+ or any other mod has. We wouldn't be discussing this if I was talking about Lugormod or Xmod.


You talking trash about MBII doesn't make anything worse for OJP. I'd still give out the B18 code to OJP even if you had 'Death to MBII' in your signature ;)
Again, this isn't a complaint about OJP as a whole...


More so, if this is something that has to do with me then take it to pm.


Yeap - ok. Just the same way you could have taken off-topic MBII stuff to PM in the past I suppose...


You know what? I've almost had it to here with this MBII vs. OJP talk.


So am I really. If your saying it's all in the past, then fine. So maybe just lay of comments like 'OJP could be played far past MBII ever will', and we'll all be happy. So if you're so sick of the OJP <-> MBII talk, why do you continue to do it?
Your first post in this thread wasn't 2 months ago...


I think you damn well knew what I meant in that post but it seems to be a sport to totally piss me over these days. Goddamnit I am so sick of this bull**** all the time! What do you want to get with your post really? What do you want to achieve? Am I really such a bad person for not liking MBII and voicing my opinion? I might be one out of 30.000 that doesn't like it, why can't you people concentrate on the 29.999 that do and less one the one that doesn't since you're not getting anything from clogging up threads with useless posts which will (I'm certain - this post is proof) undoubtedly instigate pseudo-flames. Take it to pm if you have anything more to say. I am seriously dying to hear more of how I should stop disliking MB for the sake of the OJP community.


You're not a bad person for disliking / hating MBII.
But it's hypocritical to talk down MBII while also talking about possible help from MBII. Make a choice please.


Jesus, I'm sorry.. I might as well just stop posting all together.


I'd hate to think a critism of a few posts would make you think you should stop posting altogether!

Maxstate
09-07-2006, 04:39 PM
OK - well if your taking back much of what you said, then that's fine. And perhaps this is all besides the point. But anyway, I'll respond to your post. This is all still relavent really, because this is also about where OJP goes from here...


I don't care that that is you're aim. I care that it's your aim whilst suggesting that MBII could help OJP out.


My ideal would be to have MBII and OJP players of equal amounts happily playing on servers.
If this is not a vision you share, then - again - fine. But I'll humbly elude to our helping you towards that goal!
I'm not afraid you're going to steal playes. I'm pointing out the irony of talking like you want to, then talking about assistance from us in practically the same breath!

As far as where OJP goes from here, I see the pro's and con's of both arguments. If you do want to go for a class-like system, then yes - making it a siege mod gives you a lot of stuff for free. It makes sense. But we have done a lot of coding on the siege side to be honest. Especially for open mode. We've done so much now that, if you were to put the same effort into other gametypes, you could still have a very good class-based system.

So you can do it either way I think. But you're right to say that going the siege root will get you there a bit faster. And I still think you can distinguish yourselves from MBII in various ways.
...the other advantage in going the siege route is that you can more easiely port MBII code over - which is freely avaliable to you.



Well, we must both have different definitions of ranting I guess.
And 'in your opinion' it falls on deaf ears.



I don't really think there is a rivalry now - not a general one. But OJP <-> MBII comparisons have always been around since they both existed. You're just one of the more vocal ones. At least you used to be...



Nor do I. It means you're voicing a personal opinion. Thankfully, you don't (or didn't) speak for OJP as a whole.
the trick is, my compaint is directly to you. Not OJP.

If your serious about some of your past posting habits being truly past, then fair enough. I'm happy ;)



You talking trash about MBII doesn't make anything worse for OJP. I'd still give out the B18 code to OJP even if you had 'Death to MBII' in your signature ;)
Again, this isn't a complaint about OJP as a whole...



Yeap - ok. Just the same way you could have taken off-topic MBII stuff to PM in the past I suppose...



So am I really. If your saying it's all in the past, then fine. So maybe just lay of comments like 'OJP could be played far past MBII ever will', and we'll all be happy. Why can't you?



You're not a bad person for disliking / hating MBII.
But it's hypocritical to talk down MBII while also talking about possible help from MBII. Make a choice please.



I'd hate to think a critism of one post would make you think you should stop posting altogether!

Izzal good man, I apologise.

Good night.

RenegadeOfPhunk
09-07-2006, 04:43 PM
Izzal good man, I apologise.
Good night.


Ok - cool.
And sorry I went on a bit :)

If you want the B18 code, no problem. Just holler... And if you want assistance in porting any MBII features into OJP, just give me or another MBII coder a shout... I don't know that any of us will have time to do all the porting ourselves, but we can certainly assist.

...oh - and that counts for assets as well. (At least to an extent that makes sense - it's something we can talk over...)

Good night to you too.

UDM
09-07-2006, 07:49 PM
*starts to holler*

Well...you asked for it....

Anyway glad to see you're back to help things out, renegade!

RenegadeOfPhunk
09-07-2006, 09:06 PM
*starts to holler*

Well...you asked for it....

Anyway glad to see you're back to help things out, renegade!


Hey UMD ;)
And no problem. But I just want to be clear about this - MBII code has been avaliable for OJP to use since B17. Some people don't seem to realise this... I'm not suddenly helping out more than I have done in the past - MBII's code has always been avaliable for OJP to use whenever and however it likes (within reason).

JRHockney*
09-07-2006, 09:42 PM
And no problem. But I just want to be clear about this - MBII code has been avaliable for OJP to use since B17. Some people don't seem to realise this... I'm not suddenly helping out more than I have done in the past - MBII's code has always been avaliable for OJP to use whenever and however it likes (within reason).

Thanks Renegade, and good to see you here. We're still very happy to be affiliates of MB2 even though some of us got rubbed the wrong way by it. It just one of those things thats just bound to happen when you have a community the size of MB2's. I've always liked MB2 and hope one day we can do things even nearly as well as it has, but at the same time I dont ever want to see us in direct competition or anything like that.

At the moment we're very different mods and have been focusing on different things since long before I can here. While we're trying to find a unique overall direction, most our focus has been on the sabercombat. I hope you like what we've done with it. If you havent tried our newer betas, just ask us for a copy of the newest version or go to the repository if youre interested. The newest manual is sticky posted on this forum.

Anyways, thanks for your continuing willingness to share code and congradualations on The MB teams new build.

RenegadeOfPhunk
09-07-2006, 10:02 PM
Would it be possible to post the rewritten code for how to parse the siege files so that the EOF error does not exist and so that it only loads the teams/classes for the current map?


I'll look into that for you - sure. Dont' remember the details off-hand, but I'll look into it tomorrow...


Thanks Renegade, and good to see you here. We're still very happy to be affiliates of MB2 even though some of us got rubbed the wrong way by it. It just one of those things thats just bound to happen when you have a community the size of MB2's.


Hey Hockey - sure, understood. And no problem :)


I've always liked MB2 and hope one day we can do things even nearly as well as it has, but at the same time I dont ever want to see us in direct competition or anything like that.


Understood. What'd I'd think is ideal is if you can at least take advantage of some of out stuff, but still go on a unique path somehow. Have you considered some kind of mix between MBII and FMIII? Donno - just shouting out ideas. I know many people have asked for an FFA version if MBII. And as I'm sure you know, we're not likely to be making one of those anytime soon ;)
Could be a 'gap in the market' for ya...

...although saying that, I know full well why MaxState is pushing for some element of LMS in the game. As far as I'm concerned, LMS is such an essential feature. It changes the dynamics and the experience of the game in so many different ways.
...but of course LMS is MBII's trademark. So if you want to avoid being MBII-like...

Or you go in a completely different direction. But then you can't take advantage of much MBII code.

It's a tough choice really...

Oh - and one more point about Siege implemetion. I'd actually say the objectives stuff is a much bigger deal than the class system. As I say, we actually had to do quite a bit of work to get a customisable class system into Siege. You could get a similar thing in other gametypes with similar effort I think.
But if you want to get objectives into other gametypes!! Now that would be a job I think...


At the moment we're very different mods and have been focusing on different things since long before I can here. While we're trying to find a unique overall direction, most our focus has been on the sabercombat. I hope you like what we've done with it. If you havent tried our newer betas, just ask us for a copy of the newest version or go to the repository if youre interested. The newest manual is sticky posted on this forum.


I really should give it a try when I have a chance. And I promise I'll make an effort to do so. I like a lot of the things I've heard about it. And of course Razor was always the saber system 'guru'...! No doubt I'd be impressed with what's been achieved...


Anyways, thanks for your continuing willingness to share code and congradualations on The MB teams new build.


No probs man! And thanks. Once the hotfix went out, it all turned out alright :)

DDROM
10-24-2007, 04:05 AM
Do not go no respawn or limited Lives that is the number 1 thing i hate about Mb11,
lovley maps but no respawn absolutley sucks bigtime...

Wytchking
10-24-2007, 06:35 AM
Look at the date before you post. The threads you've posted in are several years old.

Maxstate
10-24-2007, 06:10 PM
Damn my posts in this thread are sad :wornout: And I used a period in a title.. oh God...

lock plx