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tk102
10-31-2006, 05:17 PM
I know some of you (eg. Chainz.2da) are looking forward to NWN2 which is supposedly released today. I'm behind the times, having just picked up Oblivion, so it might be awhile before I turn my attention to NWN2. If any of you have opinions about the game and the game mechanics I'd like to hear about them. :)

Edit: It's on its way. Thanks Amazon. :)

Jason Skywalker
10-31-2006, 05:23 PM
From what i've seen, NWN 2 is going to rock! I am so going to buy it whenever i have the chance, and it's graphics and game engine seems to be way better than the original NWN. From what my brother said, it resembles the SWG graphics. I don't remember, haven't seen the screens in a while.

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-31-2006, 07:17 PM
I'd definitely going to pick up a copy of it by the end of the week. I loved the original games, and the new graphics engine looks incredible.

Jason Skywalker
10-31-2006, 07:20 PM
Yeah, it did come out today, hope i get one copy soon, the game just and simply rocked.

Jae Onasi
10-31-2006, 07:21 PM
I'm looking forward to it, too. I'll have to fight Jimbo for the desktop computer, though. NWN 1&2 won't play on my laptop and he's hooked on Morrowind at the moment, and I bet he'll be sucked in by Oblivion once we get that, too. :D

stoffe
10-31-2006, 08:49 PM
It will not be released in this corner of the world for more than a month. For some unfathomable reason the publishers tend to need a month or two to translate games from American to UK-English. :roleyess:

I loved the first Neverwinter Nights so I'll definitely get NWN2. Don't know much about it yet, I've avoided reading the forums and pre-release hype on purpose to avoid any spoilers and experience the game without knowing half of it before it's even been installed. :)

Emperor Devon
10-31-2006, 08:56 PM
NWN was spectacular, and I first played it last year. The second one looks to be even better, though I'll be delayed from getting it for a little while.

Miltiades
10-31-2006, 09:41 PM
It will not be released in this corner of the world for more than a month. For some unfathomable reason the publishers tend to need a month or two to translate games from American to UK-English. :roleyess:


That's weird. The version of the game that is released in Europe on the 3th of November is UK-English, I think, like most.

Point Man
10-31-2006, 10:01 PM
I'm looking forward to it, too. I'll have to fight Jimbo for the desktop computer, though. NWN 1&2 won't play on my laptop and he's hooked on Morrowind at the moment, and I bet he'll be sucked in by Oblivion once we get that, too. :D
Looks like I'll be buying a new laptop soon :)

CountVerilucus
10-31-2006, 11:36 PM
what kind of game is this? is it like kotor? free roaming? combat system?

Mav
11-01-2006, 12:32 AM
I wont be getting any new PC game... my desktop is broken... (throws a sissy-fit)

Emperor Devon
11-01-2006, 12:34 AM
what kind of game is this? is it like kotor? free roaming? combat system?

If it's like the first game, all the gameplay (including the combat) are done KotOR-style. :)

ChAiNz.2da
11-01-2006, 05:13 AM
Knoxville sucks :snear:

Was it really released yesterday? I couldn't find a copy anywhere :cry8:

Cruel Cruel world, why dost thou spite me :fist:

Darth InSidious
11-01-2006, 06:49 AM
It will not be released in this corner of the world for more than a month. For some unfathomable reason the publishers tend to need a month or two to translate games from American to UK-English. :roleyess:

I loved the first Neverwinter Nights so I'll definitely get NWN2. Don't know much about it yet, I've avoided reading the forums and pre-release hype on purpose to avoid any spoilers and experience the game without knowing half of it before it's even been installed. :)

Do you know how many -u's they have to add in, and -er's to invert?

:xp:

stoffe
11-01-2006, 07:29 AM
That's weird. The version of the game that is released in Europe on the 3th of November is UK-English, I think, like most.

Hmm, perhaps it's just the site where I usually buy games that have the preliminary release date (December 3) set wrong then. Odd they wouldn't have updated it if the game really is just a couple of days from being released.

I can always hope this is the case and it will become available soon. :) You just get a bit weary from games like for example Deus Ex:Invisible War where the European-English version was released 3 months after the North American version (I could only wait a few weeks, then I caved i and ordered the NA-version even though it was more expensive with shipping costs included. :))

EDIT: Seems like incorrect date was the case; the release date on the site has now changed to today. :)


what kind of game is this? is it like kotor? free roaming? combat system?


As far as I know it's vaguely similar to KotOR (which was somewhat similar to the previous NWN) in structure with a main character and recruitable party members, area-based world design, dialogue/quest-driven story and a d20 (D&D) semi-realtime game system. It hopefully still has the more freely controlled camera of NWN rather than the locked one of the KotOR games.

Darth333
11-01-2006, 12:25 PM
I'll definitely buy that game, probably by the end of the week if I see it at a nearby store.

Btw, IGN has just published their first impressions: http://pc.ign.com/articles/742/742913p1.html

Pavlos
11-01-2006, 01:05 PM
Do you know how many -u's they have to add in, and -er's to invert?

:xp:

And how many z's need to be changed to s's :p

what kind of game is this? is it like kotor? free roaming? combat system?

PCGamer UK gave it 90% with the summary:

A marvellous RPG with stunning tools

It's
> Traditional > Elaborate
> Constructive
It's Not
> Cliched > Overwhelming
> Just for D&D fans

---

Which is nice. There was quite a bit of Avellone worship in the article, which was only mildly disturbing but apparantly we should "File this alongside KotOR and Planescape." It seems that it has been heavily influenced by Obsidian's work on KotOR II - "NWN2 is closer to KotOR 2 than to the original game."

The moral decisions are supposed to be interesting and complex... requiring some time out to think about their repercussions. "Perhaps you'll be given the choice of helping the soldiers kill the thief, sitting back and watching, or saving the thief from the soldiers. Maybe the thief is evil. Maybe the soldiers are. Maybe neither." The greatest thing about the game seems to be the companions, apparently, it is agonising to choose who to take with you...

There seem to be one, or two bugs in the game - but what was described seemed pretty minor - although, quests retriggering when you completed them last time you played has got to be annoying. It also looks as though we'll have a game with a toolset tacked on... rather than a toolset with a game tacked on this time :xp:.

Edit: I think the camera controls are still the same but from what I've seen of the videos around there seems to be a KotOR-style camera too.

tk102
11-01-2006, 02:06 PM
There are some file format changes (most notably the TLK file is now UTF-8 encoded) and based on some of the screenshots from http://www.nwn2toolset.com it does appear that the Vector and Orientation fields exist in the GFF file format. I'm interested in this not so much in modding NWN2, but more for the sake of modding KotOR3 (if and when!).
:xp:

Prime
11-01-2006, 02:57 PM
I'll definitely be getting this at some point. Need to upgrade my machine though...

Mav
11-01-2006, 02:57 PM
There are some file format changes (most notably the TLK file is now UTF-8 encoded) and based on some of the screenshots from http://www.nwn2toolset.com it does appear that the Vector and Orientation fields exist in the GFF file format. I'm interested in this not so much in modding NWN2, but more for the sake of modding KotOR3 (if and when!).
:xp:
Amen to that :D

Phantom Joker
11-01-2006, 07:08 PM
Looks first rate! I suspect my wallet will be down a few bucks by the end of the week...

GameBanshee's NWN2 Page (http://www.gamebanshee.com/neverwinternights2/) has links to a couple of online reviews. They seem very positive so far...

Lantzen
11-01-2006, 07:42 PM
Playing Neverwinter Nights 2 is more akin to playing Baldur's Gate II or Planescape: Torment than the original Neverwinter Nights
I really like that bit, those two are among my favourite game, im currenty on a new playthough in Planesacpe:Torment. I probaly get it at fast i have a chance, it will come tomorow here in sweden, so if i see it in a store i probaly buy it

Astrotoy7
11-02-2006, 09:57 AM
finally, the game I went SLI for ....

*pats XFX 7950 GX2*

too bad we dont get it here in Oz for another two weeks :(

mtfbwya

Prime
11-02-2006, 11:40 AM
Glad to see there is more party NPC involvement than the original NWN...

SpaceAlex
11-02-2006, 12:40 PM
The game is already avaible in Europe...so i'll be getting it tomorrow, but won't be able to play it for a while because of the busy schedule at work. :(

I wonder what Obsidian's next project will be. I guess KOTOR3 is too much to hope for.

ChAiNz.2da
11-02-2006, 12:49 PM
I swear, I think I'm going to have to beat down the Best Buy "stocker".. hehehe

I'm going again today.. if it's not on the shelves... someone's getting hurt (probably my "smack" talking arse.. hehehe :xp: )

Glad to see there is more party NPC involvement than the original NWN...
I hope so.. from what I first read, it sounded like they just implemented the HotU expansive companions... but the more I got into it, it sounds like there's alot more (unlocking Prestige Classes, "Influence", etc.)... I hope it's a little more involved than the original NWN's "personal item" companion quests...

HotU expansion did a much better job, along with the inter-companion banter.. but it still lacked in some areas...

* Is about to have a fit not being able to find this game locally *

Q
11-02-2006, 03:56 PM
It also looks as though we'll have a game with a toolset tacked on... rather than a toolset with a game tacked on this time :xp:.
That's exactly the same impression that I got from NWN1. It was still pretty fun, though.
I'm interested in this not so much in modding NWN2, but more for the sake of modding KotOR3 (if and when!).And IF OE is slated to develop it. If so, it's likely that they would use the same engine (Electron?). If KotOR3 is never made, maybe the modding gods could join forces and make it from scratch using NWN2's toolset (unlikely, but I can dream, can't I? :xp: ).
I'll definitely be getting this at some point. Need to upgrade my machine though...Count yourself as lucky, then. I'll probably have to buy a whole new machine.
*pats XFX 7950 GX2*You never tire of bragging about that, do you? :xp:
HotU expansion did a much better job, along with the inter-companion banter.. but it still lacked in some areas...Agreed. HotU was the best part of NWN1's "official campaign," hands down. I've heard that some of the user-built modules are better, though. ChAiNz, since I know that you love NWN1, I was wondering which unofficial modules you thought were the best. There are so many that I don't know where to start.

ChAiNz.2da
11-02-2006, 04:08 PM
ChAiNz, since I know that you love NWN1, I was wondering which unofficial modules you thought were the best. There are so many that I don't know where to start.
Funny you should ask... look at post #2 for some of my favorites :D

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161609

Q
11-02-2006, 04:26 PM
Man, that was fast! Appreciate it, ChAiNz! :thmbup1:

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-02-2006, 05:04 PM
There's a patch for NWN 2 already. 83 MB.

ChAiNz.2da
11-02-2006, 05:09 PM
There's a patch for NWN 2 already. 83 MB.
dear lord.. "fixes the goof-ups" patch or support hardware style patch?

Guess the one thing to say is that at least Obsidian releases patches for this game ;) hehehe...

Q
11-02-2006, 05:18 PM
Guess the one thing to say is that at least Obsidian releases patches for this game ;) hehehe...From what I've read, OE actually wanted to do a content patch for KotOR2, but LA said no. :¬:

SpaceAlex
11-02-2006, 05:42 PM
From what I've read, OE actually wanted to do a content patch for KotOR2, but LA said no. :¬:

Ofcourse...no money gain from free content.

Negative Sun
11-02-2006, 05:46 PM
NWN2 looks amazing...I'd probably have to wait until I have a better PC though...

Q
11-02-2006, 05:55 PM
Ofcourse...no money gain from free content.
That would seem to be the case, from LA's standpoint. I guess they never considered that KotOR2 would probably have sold better had there been a content patch available. The fools.

stoffe
11-02-2006, 06:49 PM
Playing Neverwinter Nights 2 is more akin to playing Baldur's Gate II or Planescape: Torment than the original Neverwinter Nights

The greatest thing about the game seems to be the companions, apparently, it is agonising to choose who to take with you...


Oh. The party management was one of the things I thought was much better done in KotOR than in Baldur's Gate II. It always annoyed me that you could only bring along 5 of the potential party members, and the game actively discouraged switching people in and out of the party i some cases. (Like how the Jaheira romance plotline terminated permanently if you removed her from the active party even once (which caused the Flesh to Stone and Imprisonment spells to kill the plot as well), and how certain party members started to fight and kill each other if they were in the group at the same time (Keldorn vs. Viconia, Minsc vs. Edwin, Valygar vs. Viconia, Korgan vs. Aerie etc).

Felt like you had to spend half the time metagaming and babysitting your party rather than focusing on the story of the game. :) I hope NWN2 didn't revive those aspects of Baldurs Gate II.



There seem to be one, or two bugs in the game - but what was described seemed pretty minor -


There will probably be more. Large games tend to end up with hundreds of bugs of varying severity in the release version. Hopefully they are more committed to releasing patches for NWN2 than they were for KotOR2:TSL (or Bethesda are for Oblivion). Bioware was outstanding in that department with NWN1 where they kept releasing new patches fixing things and adding new features years after the game was released. With a toolset available it's easier to fix some kinds of bugs on your own though if you don't have the patience to wait for a patch. :)



It also looks as though we'll have a game with a toolset tacked on... rather than a toolset with a game tacked on this time :xp:.


Remains to see if that's good or bad in the long run. Short term it's better, providing the players with a more immersive game experience right from the start. But it's hard to deny the longevity of NWN, still going strong more than 4 years after it was released, which is much thanks to its active modding community and Bioware's support of that community, not it's original campaigns. I wonder if NWN2 will be able to repeat that success.


finally, the game I went SLI for ....
*pats XFX 7950 GX2*
too bad we dont get it here in Oz for another two weeks :(


Hmm, I was under the impression that NWN2 wasn't as graphically impressive as some other games recently released (TES4:Oblivion in particular) but focused more on story and game system mechanics than graphical eye candy. Would you really need such monster hardware for that? :)

RedHawke
11-03-2006, 10:07 AM
I would like to get NWN2 but unfortunately D&D Online has sucked me in! Oh the agony! :eek:

:xp:

My Cleric just made 8th Level... Whoo Hoo!!! :D

ChAiNz.2da
11-03-2006, 10:47 AM
FINALLY got it :emodanc:

Game looks amazing (other than hair... yuck), but man... I sooo need to un-train myself with Oblivion keymaps :headbump

You'd think my character was drunk I was all over the place just trying to get to a door :xp:

The graphics are lovely (it includes a Bloom setting).. max resolution is gigantic with up to a 24" widescreen setting!

Astro will be pleased... they finally included a playable Drow race.. and a Tiefling race as well (wasn't expecting that)! Character creation was long and arduous but to be expected for anyone who's played a D&D game, electronic or paper ;)

My main gripe is that install is 7 cd's, 7 freakin' cd's! meh.. I would've much preferred a DVD install disc, but oh well... it got the job done.. hehehe

I'd advise anyone to defrag your harddrive both before you install and after. Once I installed and downloaded the patch.. my drive was fragged all over the place :rolleyes: (thanks alot 7 cd's)...

TSR
11-03-2006, 10:50 AM
despite the emphasis you put upon this, im going to have to ask you to clarify it again. 7 CD's?!?! thats crazy...

Astrotoy7
11-03-2006, 11:34 AM
...You never tire of bragging about that, do you? :xp:


lolz...would you ;)

Astro will be pleased... they finally included a playable Drow race..

yes, I knew this, and yes, it's FREAKIN awesome.

Lolz...need I say I preordered the DVD version....7 cds is CRAZY !! Just one of those discs to be slightly bunk could ruin the whole thing

Hmm, I was under the impression that NWN2 wasn't as graphically impressive as some other games recently released (TES4:Oblivion in particular) but focused more on story and game system mechanics than graphical eye candy. Would you really need such monster hardware for that?

Oblivion isnt NWN. I'd say its the spell effects and higher npcs that suck up the gfx juice :) Dont forget what SLI is for.....high rez-high framerate - run any recent game at/above 1600x1200 with all effects on and with high fps and it looks just damn great :D

mtfbwya

stoffe
11-03-2006, 11:45 AM
FINALLY got it :emodanc:

Game looks amazing (other than hair... yuck), but man... I sooo need to un-train myself with Oblivion keymaps :headbump

You'd think my character was drunk I was all over the place just trying to get to a door :xp:


Haven't gotten my copy yet. Of course they had to release it on a Thursday to make sure with 90% certainty it wouldn't make it through the mail before the weekend, so I have to wait until Monday. :roleyess:

Is the control scheme much different than how it was in NWN1? And can't you change the keyboard mapping to suit your needs? Games that won't let you change the controls are annoying, especially when you have the same controls in all other games making you press the wrong keys without thinking. :)

What's wrong with hair?

ChAiNz.2da
11-03-2006, 12:12 PM
Is the control scheme much different than how it was in NWN1? And can't you change the keyboard mapping to suit your needs? Games that won't let you change the controls are annoying, especially when you have the same controls in all other games making you press the wrong keys without thinking. :)

What's wrong with hair?
Nah.. control scheme from what I remember in my NWN days (years).. is the exact same, and yeah they included a keymapper.. thank goodness.. hehehe..

The exact same 4 camera modes as well.. top, chase, driven, and "the other one" (can't remember) :xp:

I'm just so used to Oblivion's control set that I was trying their keys for NWN2 stuff :o

The radial menu is gone (&$#@!) :fist: BUT, at least Obsidian included a right-click actions menu.. it's just not as kewl as the radial menu (it's a drop down style palette) :lol:

The hair unfortunately looks gawd awful.. looks like 2.0 shading driven by 3.0 shaders...(like a course painted "hair-helmet") it's just a major disappointment when I first saw them.. plus there's no "full" long hair... just ponytails. Bloom didn't even help this matter, and I'm like Astro.. I'm playing this sucker with settings maxed out and the hair is just... "poor" to be nice ;)

Of course, now that I think about it.. I'm kinda disappointed in the hair/eye color schemes as well... granted it's a more 'natural' selection (browns, reds, blacks, blondes).. but there are no (heavy) shades of blue, green etc. styles. (Yes, I play odd hair/eye color characters.. hehehe) but even if someone wanted a blue/black.. it's not really a choice :(

But please, anyone, don't let this sway your decision on NWN2.. the game is absolutely still in the Mega-Awesome-Uber category. Despite my few "issues" I can already tell I'm going to be playing this thing for quite awhile :D

Pavlos
11-03-2006, 12:22 PM
Felt like you had to spend half the time metagaming and babysitting your party rather than focusing on the story of the game. :) I hope NWN2 didn't revive those aspects of Baldurs Gate II.

I think unused party members either go to your lovely little castle, or to a tavern somewhere in NeverWinter, though I haven't gotten the game yet. Both of those seem to act as the Ebon Hawk of this game.

Haven't gotten my copy yet. Of course they had to release it on a Thursday to make sure with 90% certainty it wouldn't make it through the mail before the weekend, so I have to wait until Monday. :roleyess:

I know the feeling...

stoffe
11-03-2006, 12:24 PM
The radial menu is gone (&$#@!) :fist: BUT, at least Obsidian included a right-click actions menu.. it's just not as kewl as the radial menu (it's a drop down style palette) :lol:


As long as the functionality is essentially the same I don't mind. I thought the radial was kind of clumsy to use, lots of mouse movement to get to where you wanted to go, hopefully a more traditional dropdown is quicker to use, even if it's not as good-looking. :) (I use the numpad for character movement so I can't use it for radial menu quick navigation.)


The hair unfortunately looks gawd awful.. looks like 2.0 shading driven by 3.0 shaders...(like a course painted "hair-helmet") it's just a major disappointment when I first saw them.. plus there's no "full" long hair... just ponytails. Bloom didn't even help this matter, and I'm like Astro.. I'm playing this sucker with settings maxed out and the hair is just... "poor" to be nice ;)


Long hair seems to be something that's avoided in most games. It's probably too hard to make it look natural to make it worth it from a dev standpoint. But since hair apparently doesn't look natural in NWN2 anyway I suppose that's a moot point in this case. :)

The only game i've seen hair that looks even remotely believable so far has been Oblivion, so I don't think I'll mind that too much unless it's even more horrible than in the first NWN. Some crafty individual will probably have made a hair mod within a few weeks anyway. ;)


Of course, now that I think about it.. I'm kinda disappointed in the hair/eye color schemes as well... granted it's a more 'natural' selection (browns, reds, blacks, blondes).. but there are no (heavy) shades of blue, green etc. styles.

They still won't allow you to pick the hair color and skin tone more freely, but have to choose from a very limited palette of color picks? At least if they have more realistic color picks this time maybe there will still be more variation (no albino Drow or neon pink dwarves this time). :)

I want my game already. :(

Lantzen
11-03-2006, 04:27 PM
Im installing the game now, hope it's worth it

SpaceAlex
11-03-2006, 07:55 PM
My main gripe is that install is 7 cd's, 7 freakin' cd's! meh.. I would've much preferred a DVD install disc, but oh well... it got the job done.. hehehe

7CD's lol. Thank god they stopped using those here in Europe a while ago. I got my copy on a DVD. :p

Jeff
11-03-2006, 08:06 PM
Sounds like this is one I'll need to pick up soon :)

Q
11-03-2006, 08:42 PM
lolz...would you ;)Absolutely! :)

Astrotoy7
11-04-2006, 03:01 AM
what is really annoying is that down here in Oz (the different)distributors have chosen to release Medieval II pretty much at the same time. This means that between work, study, obligatory g/f attention time, NWN2, MII there will be only 1.5 hours left for sleep each day :( :D

yay for insomnia \o/ :p

mtfbwya

RedHawke
11-04-2006, 08:34 AM
This means that between work, study, obligatory g/f attention time, NWN2, MII there will be only 1.5 hours left for sleep each day :( :D

yay for insomnia \o/ :p
Now that's 'hard-core'! :xp:

Darth333
11-04-2006, 09:27 AM
This means that between work, study, obligatory g/f attention time, NWN2, MII, LucasForums there will be only 1 0.5 hours left for sleep each day :( :D

yay for insomnia \o/ :p

mtfbwya


Fixed!

Astrotoy7
11-04-2006, 10:54 AM
Fixed!

indeedy. I knew 1.5 seemed like far too much ;)

The scary thing is, that estimation is only slightly exaggerated. I'm getting an average of 3-5 hours sleep nowdays - due to aforementioned factors. It has gotten to the point where I will actually be cutting down a day of work(and taking less pay!) to catch up on sleep, study, exercise, NWN2 etc :( :p

mtfbwya

Point Man
11-04-2006, 11:28 AM
Edit: Jae's had a Moron Moment (tm)!
Darn it, I was on Jimbo's computer and I didn't realize he hadn't logged off, so if you're wondering about a guy commenting on being a mother hen, it's because I forgot to log on under my own name....Honest, I'm not trying to boost his post count. :D

(Jae here) Heh, Astro, if you don't catch up on sleep, it has the nasty habit of catching up on you.
One summer my motto was "I'm going to sleep when I'm 60!" I worked one full time and one part time job and went out with friends nearly every weekend and at least once, if not twice a week. I averaged about as much sleep as you. Then, because I was so worn out, I managed to catch mono. My motto then became "I'm going to sleep until I'm 60!"
It'll be worth the pay cut to get more sleep...and I'll quit playing mother hen now. :D

Anyway, Jimbo asked me what I wanted for my b-day next week, since it's one of those 'special' ones. I told him I thought the kitchen ceiling drywall and new flooring in the upstairs bath would likely be it. (leaking toilet :fist: A meter square piece of wet cementboard ceiling nearly fell on my head a week ago--I got up from my chair literally a moment before it crashed down--divine protection there--whew!). Well, he decided that that was not fun enough, and asked if I wanted NWN2 or Oblivion also. Of course I said NWN2!
Besides, I was planning on getting Oblivion for him for Christmas.... :D

The Source
11-04-2006, 01:54 PM
I bought NWN2. My only problem is that I need to upgrade my graphics card. So far, the game is pretty sweet. I am glad the player can customize the characters. I can't say anything for the story, for I have not had a chance to play. After I buy a newer card, I will play it through. I am very impressed with the level of detail they utilized.

Also, the modding tools are slightly compatible with KotOR II files, but I haven't done enough testing yet.

mjpb3
11-04-2006, 02:23 PM
I bought NWN2. My only problem is that I need to upgrade my graphics card. So far, the game is pretty sweet. I am glad the player can customize the characters. I can't say anything for the story, for I have not had a chance to play. After I buy a newer card, I will play it through. I am very impressed with the level of detail they utilized.Me too! I have to get a new graphics card because the game runs SLOWLY for me (just like KotOR I and KotOR II did before we got the graphics card we have now. *sigh*). But other than that it looks wonderful and should be tons of fun to play, once I get to play it, that is... ;)

@chainz: 7 disks!!! My Lord! Thank goodness hubby got us the DVD version. I don't think I could've handled a 7 disk install! :lol:

The Source
11-04-2006, 07:23 PM
Me too! I have to get a new graphics card because the game runs SLOWLY for me (just like KotOR I and KotOR II did before we got the graphics card we have now. *sigh*). But other than that it looks wonderful and should be tons of fun to play, once I get to play it, that is... ;)

@chainz: 7 disks!!! My Lord! Thank goodness hubby got us the DVD version. I don't think I could've handled a 7 disk install! :lol:
I ended up getting the DVD version myself. I will probally be buying a 512MB Graphics Card by Nivida.

Lantzen
11-04-2006, 07:33 PM
It was well worth the money, i have arrived to Neverwinter now, and have done some mission there. I love the party members conversations, they are hilarious. So what are you guys playing for race/aligiment/class. Im a lawfulevil drow wizard.

The Source
11-04-2006, 07:39 PM
It was well worth the money, i have arrived to Neverwinter now, and have done some mission there. I love the party members conversations, they are hilarious. So what are you guys playing for race/aligiment/class. Im a lawfulevil drow wizard.
If you don't mind me asking, how much system RAM are you running?

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-04-2006, 08:54 PM
It was well worth the money, i have arrived to Neverwinter now, and have done some mission there. I love the party members conversations, they are hilarious. So what are you guys playing for race/aligiment/class. Im a lawfulevil drow wizard.
I'm a chaotic neutral Aasimar warlock.

DrWho_HfxCA
11-05-2006, 08:02 AM
NWN2 is great so far but I made the mistake of not going to see the lizard chief right away when asked if Iwanted to see him. This got me stuck in Highcliff because I could not talk to Slaa to take me to the chief AAARRRRRGGGHHHH (Glitch? or not enough knowledge?)

Lantzen
11-05-2006, 08:12 AM
I didnt get stuck, i didnt go to him right away either, have you download both patches? But i encounterd a bug in Neverwinter, one of the party members get a personal quest there, and i could ask her about the mission before it trigged and get the location of where the person we should find lived, then maybe 10 mins later, the mission trigged

Ghost Down
11-05-2006, 12:54 PM
Hey, I need your advice on NWN2.

I just don't know which race to pick, I'm having a hard time choosing between these races; 1. Shield Dwarf, 2. Half-Orc and 3. Human. Also, which classes whould be best suited for them. I like fighting most so it has to be a warrior or fighting class.

- Ghost Down

DrWho_HfxCA
11-06-2006, 06:46 AM
Hey, I need your advice on NWN2.

I just don't know which race to pick, I'm having a hard time choosing between these races; 1. Shield Dwarf, 2. Half-Orc and 3. Human. Also, which classes whould be best suited for them. I like fighting most so it has to be a warrior or fighting class.

- Ghost Down

Try Half Orc Barbarion

Ghost Down
11-06-2006, 09:54 AM
Any other suggestions? Also, which race whould make the cutscenes the most enjoyable?

- Ghost Down

Lantzen
11-06-2006, 11:23 AM
What do you mean with "cutscenes the most enjoyable", you could try a monk, in BG2 my first characther was a human monk, and that was quite fun, and i have found many items that boost damage on monks attack and so on. Monk are specialist in unarmed attacks, so you dont have to run around and buy wepons for him either.

I have a question about the NWN1 story, who the hell is Garius? I never finished NWN1, and i dont remember so much, but it's clear he was a villian in the first game
And he seems to be the main villian in NWN2 to

Ghost Down
11-06-2006, 01:00 PM
I mean that which race will make the cutscene more funny, Like when I first choosed the Orc and encoutered that Dwarf the dialog was pretty funny..

- Ghost Down

stoffe
11-06-2006, 04:08 PM
I've gotten the game today, and so far I've just gotten out of the door of the house you start in, but so far it's been quite underwhelming from a performance standpoint. :(

With the default graphics settings I got a whopping frame rate of 9 FPS in that first room. Quite unplayable. After messing around a bit with the graphics settings I found that I got a jump from 9 FPS to 52 FPS by disabling the "point light shadows" setting whatever that means. So far so good, until I got outside of the door. There it dropped down to on average 13-15 FPS again. After messing around with the graphics settings some more I found no clear remedy to that problem, nothing I changed did much of a difference to the frame rate.

Do anyone have any idea which graphics settings are particularily resource consuming that could be turned off/down so I could gain a playable framerate in the game? I have an ATI Radeon X1900XT graphics card, if that matters.

(I find it mildly amusing that this game appears to be about 1000% more demanding graphically than Oblivion despite the fact that it certainly doesn't look as good or better than it from what I've seen so far.)

Prime
11-06-2006, 04:18 PM
What are your specs compared to the requirements (just curious)?

stoffe
11-06-2006, 04:37 PM
What are your specs compared to the requirements (just curious)?

Requirements:
OS: Windows XP
Processor: 2.4 GHz Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon XP2000 or equivalent
Memory: 512 MB (1 GB recommended)
Hard disk space: 5.5 GB free
DVD-ROM drive: 4X speed or faster
Video: 128 MB Pixel Shader 2.0 (ATI 9700 Pro or nVidia 6600 or better), 256 MB Pixel Shader Model 3.0 (ATI X1600 or nVidia 6800 GT/GS or higher) recommended.
Sound: DirectX version 8.1 compatible sound card
DirectX: DirectX version 9.0c or higher

My computer:
OS: Windows XP Home Edition (SP2)
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3500+
Memory: 2 GB
Hard disk space: 67 GB free
DVD-ROM: X16 speed according to the specs I can find
Video: ATI Radeon X1900 XT, 512 MB (should support shader model 3)
Sound: Think it is DX 8.1 compatible. It's on-board audio on an Asus A8N-E (nVidia nForce 4 Ultra) motherboard. Works fine with other games requiring DX8.1 sound at least.
DirectX: version 9.0c

Rather frustrating to look forward to and wait so long for a game only to find it unplayably slow once I get it. :cry8: (In particular since it's the only game I've tried so far on this machine that averages below 30 FPS.)

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-06-2006, 07:42 PM
Make sure you're running the right executable. AMD users should use the nwn2main_amdxp executable.

SpaceAlex
11-06-2006, 07:42 PM
Ya, this game performs awful on any system. What resolution are you playing at? At 1650x1080 i'm getting around 20 FPS outside (i have a 7800 GTX 512MB). I found out that turning off the shadows gives you a nice FPS boost. FPS jumped from 20 to 35 by turning them off completely.

Anyway, i'm getting a 8800GTX soon... so hopefully i'll be able to play the game at the highest settings.

stoffe
11-06-2006, 08:02 PM
Make sure you're running the right executable. AMD users should use the nwn2main_amdxp executable.

Since there was an nwn2.exe, nwloader.exe, nwn2main.exe and nwn2main_amdxp.exe I figured it was safer to just run via the Launcher while testing this, since I was confused as to what the different files were for. I had hoped that the launcher would be smart enough to pick the correct exe file. But it's good to know which one to use so I can properly add it to ATI Tray Tools along with all other game profiles.

But isn't the "_amdxp" one not only for AMD Athlon XP processors, and not Amd Athlon 64? Or does the "XP" in the filename refer to Windows XP? Confusing ambiguous abbreviations. :confused:


Ya, this game performs awful on any system. What resolution are you playing at?

I'm playing at 1280x1024, and most changes to the graphics settings didn't do any noticable difference, maybe 1 or 2 FPS on average in either direction. The one that did a huge change was the "Point light shadow" or whatever it was called, which bumped me up from 8 FPS to 53 FPS in the starting room.

The only setting that did any noticable difference in the outdoors area I managed to find was "Reflective water". Turning that off bumped me up from 13-15 FPS to roughly 28-32 FPS. Way poorer than my average FPS in Oblivion, but at least it's playable so I won't complain as long as it stays there and doesn't get any worse as I get to other places. :)

Time to find out, and see if I can find something better to wear than that awfully ugly starting attire I got that cramps my character's style. :emodanc:

(Odd that the auto-configuration would turn on graphics settings that made my GPU beg for mercy, but at least they could be changed manually once found.)


Anyway, i'm getting a 8800GTX soon... so hopefully i'll be able to play the game at the highest settings.

Unless that card runs in circles around my R X1900 XT I wouldn't get my hopes up. Unless the game handles nVidia cards a lot better than ATI/AMD ones.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-06-2006, 08:15 PM
Since there was an nwn2.exe, nwloader.exe, nwn2main.exe and nwn2main_amdxp.exe I figured it was safer to just run via the Launcher while testing this, since I was confused as to what the different files were for. I had hoped that the launcher would be smart enough to pick the correct exe file. But it's good to know which one to use so I can properly add it to ATI Tray Tools along with all other game profiles.

But isn't the "_amdxp" one not only for AMD Athlon XP processors, and not Amd Athlon 64? Or does the "XP" in the filename refer to Windows XP? Confusing ambiguous abbreviations. :confused:.
All I know is that I've been playing it at 1920x1200 with nearly all the settings maxed out since I started using the _amdxp executable, whereas before it wasn't playable at all.

stoffe
11-06-2006, 09:45 PM
All I know is that I've been playing it at 1920x1200 with nearly all the settings maxed out since I started using the _amdxp executable, whereas before it wasn't playable at all.

I tried with the AMDXP variant of the executable, and while it seemed to work overall better (no flickering loadscreens etc) it didn't do any noticably difference for performance.

And it seems I spoke to soon about managing to get a decent framerate. Didn't get any further than the bridge in the village until the framerate was back down at 14-15 FPS on average. :(

I've tried playing with all graphics options, but nothing seems to make a difference for more than 2-3 FPS at highest. This is ridiculous.

Do anyone have any ideas on what can be done, other than admit I have been fooled, uninstall the :swear: game and forget about it? :(

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-06-2006, 10:22 PM
I tried with the AMDXP variant of the executable, and while it seemed to work overall better (no flickering loadscreens etc) it didn't do any noticably difference for performance.

And it seems I spoke to soon about managing to get a decent framerate. Didn't get any further than the bridge in the village until the framerate was back down at 14-15 FPS on average. :(

I've tried playing with all graphics options, but nothing seems to make a difference for more than 2-3 FPS at highest. This is ridiculous.

Do anyone have any ideas on what can be done, other than admit I have been fooled, uninstall the :swear: game and forget about it? :(
Hmm. Have you patched the game? That's the only thing I can think of right now :/

stoffe
11-07-2006, 10:39 AM
Hmm. Have you patched the game? That's the only thing I can think of right now :/

I have the latest patch (1.02?) available at the auto-updater at least. I finally managed to get a decently playable framerate (24-28) in most areas I've been to so far by turning off point light shadows, water refractions, water reflections, environment bump mapping, soft shadows, setting all the "advanced graphics" panel settings to their lowest possible value, switching to medium res textures and turning off all shadows. The prettiness of the game took a drastic drop for the worse (doesn't look much different from NWN1 aside from model detail), but at least its playable now. Not exactly what I had expected when having a fairly decent graphics card, but hopefully the game is otherwise worth it. :)

* * *

Another, unrelated question. Do anyone know how you put two weapons (when dual-wielding) or a weapon and shield in the same quick-slot so you can switch to them in one click? Doesn't seem like you do it the same way as in NWN1, at least the last dragged item always substitutes the currently quickslotted one when I try. :confused:

ChAiNz.2da
11-07-2006, 11:53 AM
Have you tried lowering your mip-map and shadow map settings? 2048 mapping for shadows is serious overkill... kill it down to 512, you'll not see a difference other than performance ;) In fact, if you haven't completely killed shadows in your game, lower all the settings to their lowest value (shadow wise). Other than "softer shadows" you're not going to be seeing a major difference (I tend to keep the soft shadows "on" just for visuals)...

Another, unrelated question. Do anyone know how you put two weapons (when dual-wielding) or a weapon and shield in the same quick-slot so you can switch to them in one click? Doesn't seem like you do it the same way as in NWN1, at least the last dragged item always substitutes the currently quickslotted one when I try. :confused:
You can't :swear:

It seems the deeper I get into this game, the more Obsidian's flaws keeps coming back to bite me in the arse. They've at least stated they're looking into fixing this "quirk" (blaming it on a complex GUI :rolleyes: ) but I can't help to wander what they were doing with all the time it took to complete this game... *sigh*

The character soundset is the same from the original NWN as are the generic npc townsfolk banter.. so they weren't deeply involved in developing sound. The weapons model are like the original NWN... low polygon and mono-tone color (ones without particle effect enchantments).. so no major time making those... >.<

The quickbar is groovy having 10 rows to be able to be filled, however.. and maybe I'm just clueless, but has anyone figured out how to toggle between them other than clicking the arrow keys (not keyboard arrows, scrollbar arrows)? In NWN I could use my ALT & CTRL keys... I can't get anything to work to scroll through 10 of them. If I have to click scroll arrows, I might as well just hit "I" and activate the item from my inventory :rolleyes: ...

I have a feeling I'm going to be depending on the Mod Community (and myself) to help redeem the game... I enjoy playing it, but these issues are becoming irritating despite the fact that Obsidian doesn't appear to have done anything groundbreaking from the original, except make the specs required double :confused:

2 strikes from Obsidian... and a major "I'm pissed" they're @#%$! up my favorite game series.. hehehe. C'mon Obsidian.. wake up in there...

Pavlos
11-07-2006, 01:07 PM
Hmm...

Well, in order to keep my framerate hanging around 30 (In exteriors), I turned off the water effects and the terrain mapping, along with the point light shadows.

I wouldn't say they wrecked it though, ChAiNz. The story is excellent, as are your companions, which is more than enough reason for me to overlook the slightly cumbersome GUI and the steep system requirements for an average looking game. I'm having fun seeing the delayed effects my actions have on the environment.

stoffe
11-07-2006, 03:19 PM
You can't :swear:


:( Oh well, I guess I'll toss away the crossbow and stick with a weapon and shield. It's too annoying to flip them around in the inventory in every fight as soon as the enemy closes the distance. I just hope nobody cares that you walk around with a big flaming morningstar in your hand all the time. If they've done like in Oblivion where it matters, but still prevent you from "holstering" your weapons effectively, I will be annoyed.



It seems the deeper I get into this game, the more Obsidian's flaws keeps coming back to bite me in the arse. They've at least stated they're looking into fixing this "quirk" (blaming it on a complex GUI :rolleyes: )


From what I've seen so far (which admittedly isn't very far) I have to agree. The NWN2 campaign seems superior to the one in NWN1 thus far, but the engine feels inferior and half-finished. The GUI feels rougher, more awkward to work with with many of the little finesses and tricks that made NWN1 feel polished missing. The GUI design feels like BG2 retro, a step back from the clean, functional GUI in NWN1. Half the console commands seem to have vanished, and of the remaining a conciderable bunch seems not to work. And they've removed the console tab auto-completion. You can't see which memorized spells you've already cast in the spell book any more (they were dimmed in NWN1, not so in NWN2).

Combat seems to mostly consist of standing around in NWN2, making a swing every now and then. They should have either filled it out with feints and movement like NWN1, or shortened a combat round to 3 seconds like KotOR. As it is now just feels unnatural. And aside from that the game feels sluggish in a way, like everything you do happens with a second's delay or something. And overall the combat animations seem cruder, and the combatants don't seem to interact as much like they do in NWN and KotOR.

The female animations overall are annoying as well. The character stands like a humpback and runs like there is something seriously wrong with their legs. Looks a lot more unnatural than the movement in NWN1, which in themselves looked rather unnatural :)

Not the mention the toolset... I've only taken a quick look at it so far, but I have to say it has the most bloated, unintuitive, horrid GUI I have seen since gmax. Horrible functionality overload, weird controls which aren't very obvious what they are for or how they work. The charm with the NWN1 toolset was that, though it was fairly limited, pretty much anyone could understand it and get creative after only a few minutes of tinkering. You probably have to be pretty dedicated not to give up in frustration initially when playing with the NWN2 toolset. :roleyess:



The character soundset is the same from the original NWN as are the generic npc townsfolk banter.. so they weren't deeply involved in developing sound.


I wouldn't mind reusing soundsets too much if the originals were generic and all-around useful. Unfortunately that was not the case, most were quirky or very specialized in what kind of character they would fit with, leaving little or no actual choice in what to pick. New soundsets certainly wouldn't have hurt the game.



The weapons model are like the original NWN... low polygon and mono-tone color (ones without particle effect enchantments).. so no major time making those... >.<


I've only seen some plain longswords, clubs, maces and daggers so far, and haven't really taken notice of them (and a morningstar covered in a blob of fire so it can't be seen properly), so I guess that makes them rather bland. :) I would have guessed it was just that I have to play with ridiculously nerfed graphics settings that removes some realism from them. Since NWNs primary focus isn't flashy graphics I find it rather ridiculous it's the only game I've had any performance problems with so far, and I've been playing some rather graphics intensive games lately. :)



I have a feeling I'm going to be depending on the Mod Community (and myself) to help redeem the game... I enjoy playing it, but these issues are becoming irritating despite the fact that Obsidian doesn't appear to have done anything groundbreaking from the original, except make the specs required double :confused:


The question is just if there will be a long lived and active enough modding community to fix it this time around. Since the engine is nerfed compared to what could be done with NWN1, all new flashy features are undocumented, Obsidian seems to have gone out of their way to make modding more difficult, and the primary saving grace of the game appears to be the campaign, it might be that people get bored with it and move on to something else after they've played through the campaign a couple of times, like most other games. Hopefully there will be some that are more committed, and Obsidian won't abandon the game like they did K2:TSL, or like Bethesda seems to have done with Oblivion, but keep up Bioware's admirable tradition with content rich "upgrade" patches to perfect the game over time.



2 strikes from Obsidian... and a major "I'm pissed" they're @#%$! up my favorite game series.. hehehe. C'mon Obsidian.. wake up in there...

It does start to look a bit bad, indeed. Perhaps they should take a hint from the fate of Troika, another company known for making excellent games but releasing them half-finished and buggy to the point where they were nearly unplayable.

* * *

BTW, is there a way to make the SetDEX and SetINT console commands to work? I messed up during character creation and can't be bothered to start over, and would like to re-arrange my abilities a bit, but those commands seem to do absolutely nothing in NWN2. :(

Darth333
11-07-2006, 03:56 PM
I don't have the game so I'm just giving a shot in the dark but here are couple things I found while browsing the bioware boards:

Stoffe, concerning your framerate issues, do you have xfire installed? It seems likeit can cause major framerate problems. http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=512193&forum=109


Another, unrelated question. Do anyone know how you put two weapons (when dual-wielding) or a weapon and shield in the same quick-slot so you can switch to them in one click? Doesn't seem like you do it the same way as in NWN1, at least the last dragged item always substitutes the currently quickslotted one when I try. :confused:
It looks like they will make a patch for this: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=509556&forum=109

Prime
11-07-2006, 04:03 PM
The question is just if there will be a long lived and active enough modding community to fix it this time around. Since the engine is nerfed compared to what could be done with NWN1, all new flashy features are undocumented, Obsidian seems to have gone out of their way to make modding more difficultCan I ask how the engine is nerfed compared to 1?

Pavlos
11-07-2006, 04:15 PM
Combat seems to mostly consist of standing around in NWN2, making a swing every now and then. They should have either filled it out with feints and movement like NWN1, or shortened a combat round to 3 seconds like KotOR. As it is now just feels unnatural. And aside from that the game feels sluggish in a way, like everything you do happens with a second's delay or something. And overall the combat animations seem cruder, and the combatants don't seem to interact as much like they do in NWN and KotOR.

While I do think it would have been a good idea to shorten the combat round, I'm not too bothered by the combat animations *and* I do happen to hate feints. For someone who doesn't obsessively look at the feedback section it is somewhat annoying to be wondering why my character isn't hitting the person. I tend to look at the number bleeding rather than the calculations, unless it is a particularly tough battle.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-07-2006, 05:00 PM
Can I ask how the engine is nerfed compared to 1?It's basically KotOR 2 + more detailed models and the ability to use more screen resolutions (yay for widescreen support). I think basing the file formats on NWN 1's formats really limited what they could do though, animations, for instance, seem a bit awkward.

I will give Obsidian a pat on the back for the new effects though, they are a hell of a lot better than the NWN1 effects, and they way they used them to make the Silver Sword of Gith was pretty creative. If I'm not mistaken, the item uses a hilt model which has an effect applied to it so that the blade can still break back into the silver shards and be used to form the Shard Storm and Shard Barrier attacks.

stoffe
11-07-2006, 06:53 PM
Stoffe, concerning your framerate issues, do you have xfire installed? It seems likeit can cause major framerate problems. http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=512193&forum=109


Hmm, I don't think that should be the cause. I unselected the Xfire option during installation, so it shouldn't be there unless it ignored my choice and installed it anyway. :)


It looks like they will make a patch for this: http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=509556&forum=109

Aha, hopefully the second patch (I assume the 1.02 hotfix doesn't count as a full patch, since I have that installed already) won't be to far away into the future. It's a bit annoying when you can't hotkey your weapons. Fortunately I don't play primarily as a melee/ranged brawler (and I only have the dwarf and the tiefling in the party so far), otherwise I guess it would drive me mad. :)

stoffe
11-07-2006, 07:24 PM
Can I ask how the engine is nerfed compared to 1?

What I have noticed so far (with reservation for errors since I've only had the game a couple of days): No database support any more, some old script commands no longer work, loads of missing console/DM commands, the Creator/Module object browser windows (don't know what they are called) you could access in DebugMode (to edit/move/create/delete placeables, creatures etc) is nowhere to be found (unless they've concealed it well). Level 20 level cap appears to be hardcoded again, making the spellcaster prestige classes rather pointless since your are much worse off than if you sticked with the original class all the way if you want access to spells of all levels.

While I do think it would have been a good idea to shorten the combat round, I'm not too bothered by the combat animations *and* I do happen to hate feints.

Perhaps it becomes less obvious when you get up a few levels and gain more attacks per round. Currently combat is like you hit the enemy, then stand around staring at them for what feels like an eternity twiddling your thumbs, hit them again, stands staring, etc... It's much more obviously turn-based than either NWN1 or KotOR were, and it breaks the realism (if you can use that word describing a fantasy game :)).

RedHawke
11-08-2006, 08:33 AM
Level 20 level cap appears to be hardcoded again, making the spellcaster prestige classes rather pointless since your are much worse off than if you sticked with the original class all the way.
A max level 20 restriction with Prestiege Classes... WTH were they smoking? :eyeraise:

I guess NWN 2 can be marked off my list...

Prime
11-08-2006, 11:28 AM
A max level 20 restriction with Prestiege Classes... WTH were they smoking? :eyeraise:Wow. The KOTOR level 20 cap I kind of understood since the PnP version had it. But why would that be in a DND game?

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-08-2006, 12:20 PM
A max level 20 restriction with Prestiege Classes... WTH were they smoking? :eyeraise:

I guess NWN 2 can be marked off my list...
You could always just remove some of the prerequisites for the prestige classes.

Pavlos
11-08-2006, 12:25 PM
Level 20 level cap appears to be hardcoded again, making the spellcaster prestige classes rather pointless since your are much worse off than if you sticked with the original class all the way if you want access to spells of all levels.

Don't worry, it isn't :) - or at least it doesn't seem to be (I haven't tested this). The toolset sports a campaign editor in which you can set the level cap.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/Pavlos_1/CampaignEditor.jpg

You can set this to other numbers higher than 20 without error messages but without testing in the game I cannot say for sure.

Jeff
11-08-2006, 01:40 PM
Don't worry, it isn't :) - or at least it doesn't seem to be (I haven't tested this). The toolset sports a campaign editor in which you can set the level cap.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/Pavlos_1/CampaignEditor.jpg

You can set this to other numbers higher than 20 without error messages but without testing in the game I cannot say for sure.
I hope you're right and it does work... I haven't gotten this yet but I wouldn't like a level cap of 20 with the prestige class...

stoffe
11-08-2006, 01:57 PM
Don't worry, it isn't :) - or at least it doesn't seem to be (I haven't tested this). The toolset sports a campaign editor in which you can set the level cap.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/Pavlos_1/CampaignEditor.jpg

You can set this to other numbers higher than 20 without error messages but without testing in the game I cannot say for sure.

You may be correct, I haven't gotten that far yet (level 6 currently) to test it out personally, but at least the manual (the full PDF manual, not the silly little pamphlet that comes in the DVD box :roleyess:) seems to mention level 20 as a cap everywhere I have read so far. But perhaps the engine is capable of more anyway, they just won't let you get that high in the official campaign. Remains to be seen, but I hope you are right. :)

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-08-2006, 10:50 PM
Don't worry, it isn't :) - or at least it doesn't seem to be (I haven't tested this). The toolset sports a campaign editor in which you can set the level cap.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b73/Pavlos_1/CampaignEditor.jpg

You can set this to other numbers higher than 20 without error messages but without testing in the game I cannot say for sure.
It doesn't work ;_;

Jeff
11-08-2006, 11:00 PM
It doesn't work ;_;NOOOOOOOO!!! :vader3:

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-08-2006, 11:11 PM
NOOOOOOOO!!! :vader3:
I'll see if I can edit a few 2DA's or something to grant more spells, skills, ability points, and feats at earlier levels and remove a few prerequisites from the prestige classes so becoming a prestige class won't be a complete waste of time.

tk102
11-08-2006, 11:53 PM
I'll see if I can edit a few 2DA's or something to grant more spells, skills, ability points, and feats at earlier levels and remove a few prerequisites from the prestige classes so becoming a prestige class won't be a complete waste of time.
Help us jmac7142, you're our only hope. :leia:

stoffe
11-09-2006, 08:49 AM
I've played some more, and while the campaign is fun so far I've come to the conclusion that combat must have been tailor-made by some sadistic designer to be as annoying as possible. It could just be my usual unlucky self, but I did the quest in Neverwinter where you clear out the warehouse and those gang thugs you fight there were going on my nerves (and not just by all of them shouting "Your taint shall be cleansed!" whenever they attacked my halo-wearing Aasimar PC).

Enemy hitpoints seem to have been carefully set so they will always have between 1 and 5 hitpoints left after being hit by a high-damage spell, giving them another round to attack you, never killing them outright.

A common thug with a challenge rating of "Easy" or "Effortless" can sigle-handedly kill both the dwarf and druid party member if you don't focus all you have at them and use doors as choke points so only one of them can attack at a time. And I'm playing at the Easy difficulty setting.

Attack rolls seems to be locked at the lower range. My cleric, buffed up with the spell that gives her Fighter BAB, got 15(!) misses in direct succession against a leather armor wearing thug, who obviously managed to hit her about 90% of the time despite her having an AC of 28, and them dual-wielding a short sword and a dagger. Another notable record is 6 critical misses (1 rolls) in direct succession. I had to use up every single healing potion and medkit I had found so far to get through that area, and that's with a cleric and druid in the party capable of casting healing spells in addition. :(

Perhaps I was just unlucky, or have had poor luck at finding proper gear to equip my group for their current level (lvl 8), but if that warehouse had been a single room longer I'd have quit playing in pure frustration. :roleyess:

Is this just a matter of having found poor equipment for my group? Will there be similar battles upcoming so I have to cheat in better gear to be able to preserve my sanity and enjoy the game, or was that particular quest just made to be annoying?

* * *

Re: The level cap. I suppose prestige classes can still be useful for fighters and rogues, but they seem pretty worthless for all the spellcasting capable classes as it currently stands.

ChAiNz.2da
11-09-2006, 11:30 AM
Same here stoffe as far as the real sucky "to-hit" ratio. My Thief/Fighter-Duel Wielding-KillYouWithoutThinkingTwice Drow almost got his rear smeared across the floor if it hadn't been for me (by complete fluke) deciding to take Qara (sorceress NPC) with me rather than the Druid.

She may have a bad attitude, but man she flings blood guts spit and ass like there's no tomorrow... just make sure you give her stoneskin in her spellbook. She goes down quick if anyone closes in on her, but she can wipe out a crowd of thugs in less time it takes for your party to start closing in ;)

If you're running low on defensive gear, talk to the little gnome lady in the Docks area. She carries alot of defensive trinkets (amulets, boots, cloaks, etc.) She's stashed far in the back where it seems alot of NWN citizens tend to gather, just behind the Watch's building. That is of course, if you're not like me and having a horrendous time trying to get gold in this campaign. :fist:

If it hadn't been for pawning off the warehouse booty, and me splurging earlier in the game to get the lesser magic bag which is a 40% weight reduction (Fort Locke Merchant - Garion)... I'd still be sucking down minor health potions.

The temple of Tyr in the Market District also has the best prices for healing potions... it costs about half of what you'll be paying anywhere else so make the effort and walk over to them to buy the cheap stuff if you're a pauper such as myself :lol:

As far as other bitterly over-matched fights.. there is another I can think of if you haven't done it already. It involoves the Temple of Tyr in Market District. I put it in spoilers just in case, but it only really covers "what" you encounter so you can be prepared. Still, it's a spoiler ;)

The priest of Tyr asks you to check on/rescue another priest who's not returned from "crypt duty". Thing is, once you enter the crypt, you can't get out until you find him....

Inside the crypt is your typical zombies/ghouls.. BUT there are also shades and ghasts... be sure to have magic weapons and watch out for the ghasts, they can paralyze!

The Boss for the crypt is another Easter Egg.. so be sure to read the name once you encounter. Oh yeah, take LOTS of heal potions or rest often

stoffe
11-09-2006, 12:07 PM
SPOILER ALERT! This whole post is probably loaded with spoilers. Don't read it unless you've gotten past the early parts of Neverwinter.

almost got his rear smeared across the floor if it hadn't been for me deciding to take Qara (sorceress NPC) with me rather than the Druid.

She may have a bad attitude, but man she flings blood guts spit and ass like there's no tomorrow... just make sure you give her stoneskin in her spellbook. She goes down quick if anyone closes in on her, but she can wipe out a crowd of thugs in less time it takes for your party to start closing in ;)


Since it seems she gets attacked by loads of suicidal low level mages whenever we set foot outside the tavern it seems difficult to get anything done with her in the group if you too are a spellcaster (Cleric in my case). Go outside, get attacked by like 15 mages. Go inside and rest to re-memorize the lost spells and heal up, go back outside only to get attacked by 25 mages this time, etc. Got tired of it and left her in the tavern instead so I'd be able to get some quests done without having to slaughter the entire casting-capable population of Neverwinter just to get where I need to go.

I contemplated attempting to bring her to the warehouse anyway, but just before that I got some cutscene with some scheming noble who wanted a witch to make her spells backfire on her. Didn't sound like a good idea to bring a melee-worthless spellcaster who kills herself whenever casting a spell to a major fight, so I figured it was better to leave her behind and bring the tiefling instead. At least she could deal some extra damage with a bunch of wands and spell scrolls I had found. Wouldn't want to leave the druid though, her Call Lightning, Ice Storm and Body of the Sun spells probably accounted for at least 50% of the damage caused to those irritating gang thugs.

Adding insult to injury I found mostly crap when looting the containers in the warehouse (and I got a greatsword when I let Neeshka do her looting mini-quest there. Very useful for a Cleric who can't use swords). All those healing kits and cure potions, traps and wands I had to use up were most likely worth more than the loot I found there.



If you're running low on defensive gear, talk to the little gnome lady in the Docks area. She carries alot of defensive trinkets (amulets, boots, cloaks, etc.) She's stashed far in the back where it seems alot of NWN citizens tend to gather, just behind the Watch's building. That is of course, if you're not like me and having a horrendous time trying to get gold in this campaign. :fist:


That's the problem, I am like you. :p Everything of worth you can buy from merchants is hideously expensive and I have at most been able to scrape together roughly 10 000 gold so far (and that includes the wagon load of burglary loot i confiscated for the City Watch in the Docks district but no one seems interested in taking off my hands).

I guess that's the disadvantage of playing a good-aligned halo wearer, she doesn't have the heart to squeeze their life savings off dirt farmers as rewards for saving their kids or some such. I guess you have to play as a ruthless bastard to do well in this game. :roleyess:



If it hadn't been for pawning off the warehouse booty, and me splurging earlier in the game to get the lesser magic bag which is a 40% weight reduction (Fort Locke Merchant - Garion)


I smell random loot stock at the merchants, I can't remember having seen anyone sell any weight reduction bags.



The temple of Tyr in the Market District also has the best prices for healing potions...


Is the Temple of Tyr in the Market District the same as the Hall of Justice, or is that still found in the same district as Lord Nasher's palace like in NWN1? I need to bring the NPC dwarf (Khelgar?) there on some quest, but have been unable to find it so far.



As far as other bitterly over-matched fights.. there is another I can think of if you haven't done it already. It involoves the Temple of Tyr in Market District.


Hmm, perhaps I should wait with that quest then until I've managed to find better gear. Thanks for the warning. :) Are you accosted with this quest whenever you enter the temple, or can you shop potions there unmolested and come back for the quest when the time feels right?

I found another: The very next City Watch quest after the warehouse, the "Escort" mission. I swear every single room in that mansion contains 6 sneak attacking rogues where it took the entire party hitting a single one of them like 10 rounds to kill him (Again challenge rating "Easy". I'd hate to see how Obisidan defined a "Challenging" enemy). And there were a lot of rooms in that manion. Luckily there were a lot more narrow doorways in there so you could at least take one of them at a time, which cut down the need for healing a little (but not much). Always rewarding when you need to use braindead AI behavior to beat the opponents rather than the skill of your characters. Even thugs should know better than to stand in line to have 4 enemies beat on them one at a time.

Spells are mostly useless in such situations as well since you run out of spells after just a handful of rooms, and since you're there to prevent an NPC from getting a head shorter there's no time to rest between fights. If the next quest is more of the same I feel compelled to break my "no cheating on the first playthrough" rule and conjure up some more lethal implements of death for my team.

(Not to mention that no one seems to take notice of the certain "named" NPC you have to kill at the end of that quest, and you have no dialog options to even mention it, even though she supposedly is a major player in what's been going on. :roleyess:)

ChAiNz.2da
11-09-2006, 12:52 PM
Since it seems she gets attacked by loads of suicidal low level mages whenever we set foot outside the tavern it seems difficult to get anything done with her in the group if you too are a spellcaster (Cleric in my case). Go outside, get attacked by like 15 mages. Go inside and rest to re-memorize the lost spells and heal up, go back outside only to get attacked by 25 mages this time, etc.

Rest outside in the city streets. Apparently it's not frowned upon in this campaign like it was in the original. I've rested "out in the blue" several times without penalty or random encounter. Same with the warehouse... even though there were enemies "nearby", just a few steps back and the game let me rest without incident. Seems to be the "scapegoat" in this game as the resting timer is only 5 sec. and seemingly can be done 'anywhere' unless it's a special area (eg. the smaller Swamp Graveyard crypt)

Adding insult to injury I found mostly crap when looting the containers in the warehouse (and I got a greatsword when I let Neeshka do her looting mini-quest there. Very useful for a Cleric who can't use swords). All those healing kits and cure potions, traps and wands I had to use up were most likely worth more than the loot I found there.

same here, but the Darksteel Chain Shirts were worth a ton, and because of the bag I had.. I loaded up my 19 strength dwarf with about 10 of them. At around 387gp each (I always raise my appraisal when leveling).. they helped out alot. I also sold that very same Greatsword you're talking about for 10,000gp since I can't seem to find anything better than the Bone Phoenix morningstar that my dwarf npc handles quite masterfully..

I guess that's the disadvantage of playing a good-aligned halo wearer, she doesn't have the heart to squeeze their life savings off dirt farmers as rewards for saving their kids or some such. I guess you have to play as a ruthless bastard to do well in this game. :roleyess:

Seems as such for the most part. However I noticed that accepting rewards, without reverting to Intimidate or certain Diplomacy options, will still grant you a +1 shift to "Good", award XP and give a reward. I got a decent amulet from the kid's parents (Highcliff) and the town gave me a decent set of studded armor when I accepted their reward for taking care of the Lizardmen problems (diplomatically). Most other times when I thought I would get an "evil" penalty.. I wound up going "chaotic" instead :confused: This game is still confusing me.. hehehe

I smell random loot stock at the merchants, I can't remember having seen anyone sell any weight reduction bags.

Double-check the merchant. The bag(s) is normally in the crafting components section and is rather bland looking so it blends all too well with wood planks. There's also a minor magic Bag (20% Weight Reduction) sold at the Weeping Willow Inn ;) So far they've been in all of my games (I've re-started 3 times up to this point.. I'm finally somewhat satisfied.. hehehe)

Is the Temple of Tyr in the Market District the same as the Hall of Justice, or is that still found in the same district as Lord Nasher's palace like in NWN1? I need to bring the NPC dwarf (Khelgar?) there on some quest, but have been unable to find it so far.It's behind a large gate, NE from "Deekin" in the Market District. I think it's marked on the map ("M" key version, not the ball map HUD)

Hmm, perhaps I should wait with that quest then until I've managed to find better gear. Thanks for the warning. :) Are you accosted with this quest whenever you enter the temple, or can you shop potions there unmolested and come back for the quest when the time feels right?
It's tagged with "urgency" but I went ahead and finished Neeshka's "coin" quest and the warehouse before I took the quest. It's not one of those "I accept" then the game automatically teleports you to it types. ;)

stoffe
11-09-2006, 01:28 PM
SPOILER ALERT! This whole post also likely contains spoilers concerning the early time in Neverwinter City.

Rest outside in the city streets. Apparently it's not frowned upon in this campaign like it was in the original. I've rested "out in the blue" several times without penalty or random encounter. Same with the warehouse...


Aha, perhaps I'm still a bit Morrowind/Oblivion damaged where it's illegal to rest outside in civilized areas. :) But if I had known that earlier I'd probably have missed a bunch of cutscenes with party members that seems to happen on occasion when you enter the tavern. :)

Not that I mind if you can rest often though since I play as a caster class. The "slot-based" magic system tends to make party casters weak and enemy NPC casters overpowered since the latter can burn all their spells in just one encounter, but you have to housekeep with yours in case you run into a nastier fight later. (And I've never ran into an enemy NPC caster who's already spent some of their spells for the day.)


same here, but the Darksteel Chain Shirts were worth a ton, and because of the bag I had.. I loaded up my 19 strength dwarf with about 10 of them. At around 387gp each (I always raise my appraisal when leveling)..


I don't suppose it's possible to go back into the warehouse after going outside and meeting Sir Superior (whatever his name was, the condescending type with the Neverwinter eye on his tabard). I'll have to see if I can go back and pick those up. Desperately need the gold even if I had to make several trips to a merchant to carry them all out. In particular since I have no ranks in appraisal at all since it's a cross class skill for clerics, which certainly doesn't improve the wealth of the party.



I also sold that very same Greatsword you're talking about for 10,000gp since I can't seem to find anything better than the Bone Phoenix morningstar that my dwarf npc handles quite masterfully..


Hmm, don't think my version of the greatsword was worth that much. Perhaps an Appraisal thing. The most valuable things I've found so far have been a few wands worth around 4000 gp, but I had to use them up to get through the warehouse and mansion alive. If it's that expensive to be on the City Watch I'm starting to understand why so many of them accepts bribes. :) Especially since I haven't been paid a single coin for my efforts so far. Monthly salary I guess.

I guess the Bone Phoenix is a fixed drop from the Cave Lizardman Chief east of the Inn? I found that too, and it's been a decent weapon for my main PC. At least until we reached Neverwinter, now it seems like every two-bit thug can take enormous amounts of punishment before going down.



Most other times when I thought I would get an "evil" penalty.. I wound up going "chaotic" instead :confused: This game is still confusing me.. hehehe


Indeed, the alignment system in NWN2 seems to suffer from the same problem as before; being driven entirely by action and not taking intent into the equation. I got somewhat surprised I got one Chaotic point for confiscating stolen goods from a bunch of thieves while working for the City Watch. Huh.

Speaking of which, is there a way to see the numeric value of your Law and Good scores? In NWN1 it was displayed on your character sheet, but that doesn't seem to be the case in NWN2.


Double-check the merchant. The bag(s) is normally in the crafting components section and is rather bland looking so it blends all too well with wood planks.


I suppose I'll backtrack and take a second look, though I'm fairly certain there weren't any since I usually look through the goods list carefully. But mistakes can happen. :)



There's also a minor magic Bag (20% Weight Reduction) sold at the Weeping Willow Inn ;)


Sold by the barkeep? Can't remember seeing that one either when browsing his wares.

That's another disadvantage of being a good guy leading to poverty: not looting containers in "friendly" areas such as the Weeping Willow Inn. I noticed there were a bunch of containers on the second floor but didn't open any of them since I was there to get rid of the gray dwarves and save the missing husband, not rob the place. :)



It's tagged with "urgency" but I went ahead and finished Neeshka's "coin" quest and the warehouse before I took the quest. It's not one of those "I accept" then the game automatically teleports you to it types. ;)

Do you know if any of the quests in the game are time limited, or if they just say it's urgent to make you hurry up and do them? :)

Is sleeping advancing the date/time in the game? Hard to tell since there doesn't seem like there is anywhere to see the current in-game date/time like mousing over the compass in NWN1 did. (Is there even a compass in NWN2? I'm feeling a bit disoriented without it, having to see what direction I'm going on the map instead. :)

ChAiNz.2da
11-09-2006, 02:19 PM
I don't suppose it's possible to go back into the warehouse after going outside and meeting Sir Superior (whatever his name was, the condescending type with the Neverwinter eye on his tabard). I'll have to see if I can go back and pick those up. Desperately need the gold even if I had to make several trips to a merchant to carry them all out. In particular since I have no ranks in appraisal at all since it's a cross class skill for clerics, which certainly doesn't improve the wealth of the party.
NOt sure.. I haven't checked since I'm not too fond of NWN2's "lock this area until you get a quest" mode. It's kind of a spoiler when you go to pick a lock and it says it needs a special key. 9/10 times means it's something you'll be coming back to :rolleyes: On the area modules it's even more ridiculous *sigh*
I invested early in the game in the "Able Learner" feat which allowed me to take cross-class skills with one slot, rather than two. I thought it might have weakened me early in since I tend to take Dodge and Mobility for my Dex characters..but it's one of the few things that actually paid off for me in the game *whew*

I guess the Bone Phoenix is a fixed drop from the Cave Lizardman Chief east of the Inn? I found that too, and it's been a decent weapon for my main PC. At least until we reached Neverwinter, now it seems like every two-bit thug can take enormous amounts of punishment before going down.
Yah.. I remember my first encounter with the flame totin' Lizard King too... I died rather quickly :lol:
Another fixed drop is the Storm +1 light warhammer in the (smaller?) Graveyard Crypt. Handy little weapon for thieves or druids, especially with Weapon Finesse.

Indeed, the alignment system in NWN2 seems to suffer from the same problem as before; being driven entirely by action and not taking intent into the equation. I got somewhat surprised I got one Chaotic point for confiscating stolen goods from a bunch of thieves while working for the City Watch. Huh.
Same here.. I got a chaotic point for looting the chest in Hagen's <sp?> house.. (the first Watchmen's quest)

Speaking of which, is there a way to see the numeric value of your Law and Good scores? In NWN1 it was displayed on your character sheet, but that doesn't seem to be the case in NWN2.
If there is, I haven't found it :(
If you stumble upon it.. or a mod, please let me know!
Influence rank would be nice too .. hey tk102 add a "remote" to NWN2 :xp: hehehe..

I suppose I'll backtrack and take a second look, though I'm fairly certain there weren't any since I usually look through the goods list carefully. But mistakes can happen.
Definitely check.. there should be a lesser bag at Fort Locke (Garion).. and a minor bag at Weeping Willow Inn (Inn Keeper's storefront). The one at the Willow is called an "Alchemical Bag" or something or other close to that.. I had to examine the description to find out what it really was ;)

Do you know if any of the quests in the game are time limited, or if they just say it's urgent to make you hurry up and do them?
I don't think so.. I'm still having to realize that unlike Oblivion, NWN has spawn points and lacks radiant AI.. so they aren't getting "eaten" by something while you're half-way across the continent... seems as if really important npc's are also "essential" since I was feeling particularly evil at one point and let an enemy beat up on an innocent for awhile... after coming back from getting some coffee.. the NPC was still there taking a beating :devsmoke: hehehe...

Is sleeping advancing the date/time in the game? Hard to tell since there doesn't seem like there is anywhere to see the current in-game date/time like mousing over the compass in NWN1 did.
Well.. the book says it advances 24 hours, but it also says it takes 15 seconds (compared to the 5 it takes in my game ;) )... I'm not taking anything in the book seriously anymore.. hehehe. So far, I haven't encountered anything that was "timed". Of course, everyone and their brother says their quest is the most important and please hurry.. but I'm a relaxed kinda person and so far no one has complained once I came back to claim my reward :D
However I too noticed there's a serious lackage of a calendar, days, minutes, etc in the game.. so thus far I guess the NWN citizens live by the Sun & Moon ... hehehe

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-09-2006, 03:50 PM
To save the trouble of editing 2DAs, people may wish to try Pavlos' suggestion, then saving the campaign as a a user-created module (I know this was possible with the original NWN1, but I'm not sure if it's possible to do so with the new toolset). From what I've seen on the Bioware boards, the level cap is hardcoded into the campaign, but there is no level restriction for user-created modules unless the creator chooses to set one.

Pavlos
11-09-2006, 04:27 PM
To save the trouble of editing 2DAs, people may wish to try Pavlos' suggestion, then saving the campaign as a a user-created module (I know this was possible with the original NWN1, but I'm not sure if it's possible to do so with the new toolset). From what I've seen on the Bioware boards, the level cap is hardcoded into the campaign, but there is no level restriction for user-created modules unless the creator chooses to set one.

That's good to know :).

Oh, I've just downloaded the latest Nvidia drivers, for anyone who uses this type of card, and I received a massive increase in performance. I can even use point light shadows now! *Does a little jig*. The water reflections and refractions appear to be CPU bound so no luck on them.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-09-2006, 04:52 PM
That's good to know :).

Oh, I've just downloaded the latest Nvidia drivers, for anyone who uses this type of card, and I received a massive increase in performance. I can even use point light shadows now! *Does a little jig*. The water reflections and refractions appear to be CPU bound so no luck on them.
Ack! You spoke too soon. I made the main campaign into a separate campaign (I just created a new CAM file), but it still doesn't allow progression past level 20. Hopefully they'll remove the cap in this new 1.02 patch or the next 1.03 patch (which is supposed to be a "Critical Rebuild").

Pavlos
11-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Critical rebuild?

Can I see a link to the source - I'm quite interested. I take it that this was on the BioWare forums?

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-09-2006, 05:14 PM
Critical rebuild?

Can I see a link to the source - I'm quite interested. I take it that this was on the BioWare forums?It just means they're fixing a bunch of stuff, unlike say, the 1.02 update. Hopefully it will be the 1.03 patch though.

Lantzen
11-10-2006, 09:24 AM
I have got the understanding that in D&D games, when a characther come pass level 20 they are legendary, and most of the high level characther in the PnP version is around level 13-17. And it also takes months for people to reach those levels, if thats the case, isnt the level 20 limit good? Level 20 seem powerful for the D&D universe. But since i never played the D&D PnP version i dont know if this is true or not.

But i dont care so much about the max level of my characther, so i dont really mind the level 20 limit, as long as the game/story is good it dont mather to me if im level 20 or 40. And the story is good up to this point
I just finshed the court at chapter 2

stoffe
11-10-2006, 09:59 AM
I have got the understanding that in D&D games, when a characther come pass level 20 they are legendary, and most of the high level characther in the PnP version is around level 13-17. And it also takes months for people to reach those levels, if thats the case, isnt the level 20 limit good? Level 20 seem powerful for the D&D universe. But since i never played the D&D PnP version i dont know if this is true or not.


I'm no D&D expert since I've only played some computer games using that system, but the main problem as I understand it is how it's translated between Pen and paper to the computer. In computer games you generally fight hundreds or even thousands of opponents throughout a campaign, while in P&P I understand hostile encounters and enemies are much more scarce. And since you primarily gain XP by killing enemies in the game, that is a rather significant difference. Thus it would stand to reason that you advance a whole lot quicker when playing the CRPG variants, since you gain more XP. In pen and paper a character may also last over several campaigns, while in an unmodded game there is only one campaign and you want to get the most out of your character during it.

A level cap that you reach in a game while playing is never good. Suddenly hitting your head in the ceiling and being told that "Sorry sunshine, this is as far as you go. Nothing you do from now on matters for your character" is a rather significant anticlimax since the character building aspect is a rather large part of the CRPG experience in general, for good or ill. Baldurs Gate 2:Shadows of Amn was an excellent example of this, where a thorough player could well hit the level cap with like 35% of the game remaining to be played (halfway through the Underdark, usually). No wonder the level cap remover was one of the most popular mods for that game. :)

Remains to be seen if the same is true for NWN2, or if you won't hit level 20 before the game is over.

ChAiNz.2da
11-10-2006, 11:38 AM
Just a clarification.. the merchant's name in Fort Locke is Gallen, not Garion (where the heck was I getting that?.. hehehe).. anyways, it at least starts with a "G" :o

Also, apparently Deekin in Merchant District carries a lesser magic bag as well. I didn't recall him having one, but he did last night.. so there might be something to that random merchant loot stoffe.. that or different merchandise is available at different levels (or skill ranks?).. OR I'm just old and blind and didn't remember him having it :xp: hehehe

stoffe
11-10-2006, 11:57 AM
I invested early in the game in the "Able Learner" feat which allowed me to take cross-class skills with one slot, rather than two. I thought it might have weakened me early in since I tend to take Dodge and Mobility for my Dex characters..but it's one of the few things that actually paid off for me in the game *whew*


Clerics, in particular non-human ones, seem to get pretty few feat picks in the game though (5 in total I think), so it's pretty hard to pick what will give the best results in the long run. I'm focusing mostly on Concentration (to avoid getting casting interrupted), Heal (to use medkits to best effect) and Spellcraft as skills so far. Maybe I should put a few points in appraisal anyway if it makes a difference. Does the appraisal skill have to be on the main character, or will the one with the highest appraisal skill in your party do the shopping automatically?


Yah.. I remember my first encounter with the flame totin' Lizard King too... I died rather quickly :lol:


I managed to barely survive, though the lizard chief did clobber the dwarf party member (Khelgar?) into submission in only a couple of hits. At least that gave me time to get up a fire resist spell and cast a spell on the lizard that weakened him a little, but my PC got badly injured anyway before the lizard went down. Then I killed the sidekick shaman with his chief's morningstar afterwards as revenge. :) Good thing "killed" party members get up on their own after the battle is over, since I didn't have any means to resurrect the dwarf at that time. :)


Same here.. I got a chaotic point for looting the chest in Hagen's <sp?> house.. (the first Watchmen's quest)


That's more understandable though, IMHO. Looting the shop of the one you are sent to protect is a bit chaotic. :) Confiscating stolen goods from a gang of criminals when you are a police officer on duty is more questionable if that's chaotic, in my opinion. :) I don't really mind though, as long as I stay Good it doesn't matter if it's Lawful of Chaotic, since clerics have no alignment restrictions. :)



If you stumble upon it.. or a mod, please let me know!
Influence rank would be nice too .. hey tk102 add a "remote" to NWN2 :xp: hehehe..


Seems like the numpad- (or was it numpad+) when in debug mode doesn't work like it did in NWN1 either (dump full stats of the targeted character to the message log), so it seems like character inspector spell will be a likely first NWN2 mod in my case (unless someone else already has made a good one). :)


seems as if really important npc's are also "essential" since I was feeling particularly evil at one point and let an enemy beat up on an innocent for awhile... after coming back from getting some coffee.. the NPC was still there taking a beating


That's a good thing though in my opinion. Escort/Protect missions are some of the most annoying in any game since the NPC you are tasked to protect usually is dumb as a log and utterly death defying, preferring to charge the enemies head-on even though they are unarmed civilians dressed in common clothing and the enemies are in full armor with enchanted weapons. :roleyess: Failing a quest because you do something stupid is one thing and, while annoying, at least acceptable. Failing it because you can't heal some braindead AI character you have no control over quick enough is quite another.



Well.. the book says it advances 24 hours, but it also says it takes 15 seconds (compared to the 5 it takes in my game )... I'm not taking anything in the book seriously anymore..


At least you got a proper manual with the game. the DVD/EU version comes with a silly little pamphlet that contains little more than the barest of basics and some blatantly obvious installation instructions. No tables of anything, no spell/feat/skill descriptions, no weapon charts, nothing useful at all. I have first person shooter manuals thicker and more informative than the sad excuse for a manual that comes with NWN2. Even the collector's edition comes with that sad joke. :roleyess: While you had to use a magnifying glass to read the BG2 and NWN1 manuals at least they contained lots of useful reference information you could use while playing.



hehehe. So far, I haven't encountered anything that was "timed". Of course, everyone and their brother says their quest is the most important and please hurry.. but I'm a relaxed kinda person and so far no one has complained once I came back to claim my reward


Good, I don't like to be on a tight schedule while playing a game, there's enough of that in real life. Being thorough and looking around is more fun than rushing through things.

Speaking of quests, I did most of the aforementioned Temple of Tyr quest yesterday, and... ... I wonder if it matters if you loot anything in the crypt or not? You have to promise that Priest of Tyr or whatever he was that you'd leave the crypt alone while searching for the missing priest there, and I've noticed there are a series of lootable chests, usually at the end of well-trapped rooms, in there. Will anyone notice if you touch them, or is it all the same anyway? While it's the good thing to do it's not really economical to raid a crypt crammed full with dangerous undead for a meager 500 gp reward if you can't loot anything you find there.

Also, with Neeshka(sp?)'s quest where you should steal a lucky coin from her treacherous past partner in crime, does it matter if you sneak through the place and steal the coin (as she proposed), or if you go in gun's blazing, clean out the place and put a stop to him before he can cause you any more grief?

Lantzen
11-10-2006, 12:42 PM
Stoffe here is the answer to your questions
In the crypt they dont care if you stel evrything you can, i did it and they didnt say anything about it when i came back.
And Neeshkas quest you can just kill evryone, i disarmed all the traps that was there(Or most of them) but all the regular guars i killed

ChAiNz.2da
11-10-2006, 12:51 PM
For the spoiler:


I looted it to it's gills ;)

No one said I was disgraced, shamed me, etc..
I can't remember exactly what the loot entails.. but I believe it's mostly scrolls, potions, odd-n-ends. Though there may be a +1 or +2 weapon in there. Good pawning material for the paupers like us.. hehehe

When you go to claim your reward however, if you have enough Diplomacy skill.. you can get an extra 1,000gp by telling him you were sent to check on the priest, NOT risk your life in doing so... no "evil" penalties.

----------

Sneak or guns blazing.. you'll either wind up facing him in his home, or you'll get a "proposition" later in the game to meet him and discuss the "coin". You'll have to fight him either way... but there's more to come that I won't spoil you on :)

Play the way you enjoy because either way will progress the quest.

stoffe
11-10-2006, 01:16 PM
I just got the coin in Neeshka's quest, gave her a potion of invisibility and just marched past all the goons, disarming traps along the way. Snatched the coin and got out without anyone noticing I was there, not killing anyone. When I exited the mansion I got a cutscene at the end though where the bad-guy didn't exactly seemed deterred by the theft, which I assume will lead to trouble later.

It was a rather railroaded cutscene though. I may be damaged by sneaking games where you have to take care to close all doors after you not to make guards suspicious, and did just that when I infiltrated the mansion. In the cutscene though the guards spot that the door to the treasury room was open (despite the fact that I carefully closed it) and thus noticed the theft. :roleyess:

Overall it seems like my group is most proficient at making enemies so far. The entire local arcane academy seems to be after us because I prevented their fight with the fiery sorceress girl outside the tavern (which seemed like the City Watch-y thing to do when I was on a quest to maintain order on the streets), and now there are groups of thugs attacking us everywhere because of Neeshka's past associates. Can't wait to see what kind of trouble the dwarf and druid will bring, eventually. :)

As for the crypt quest, I made a save just before exiting, just in case, so I guess I'll go back to that one and loot the place and see if I can squeeze some extra gold out of the temple. Those organizations are filthy rich anyway so even a halo-wearing good girl like my character shouldn't feel guilty about that. :)


* * *

Regarding what was said earlier: there seem to be at least some decent-looking weapon models in the game. Perhaps not quite up to Oblivion standard, but I think this sword (http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/2778/niceswordwf5.jpg) looks pretty nice. And the lightning effect on it looks cool, though it's hard to capture on a screenshot. :)

Darth Reign
11-10-2006, 01:20 PM
I was going to buy this game. Is it worth the headache?

Lantzen
11-10-2006, 01:21 PM
haha, my main characther also use that sword, but he dont hit so much with it, hes a wizard lvl5/palemaster lvl8

I think you should buy it, i think the story is really good. And if you read the thread some people have complain that the battles is to slow, but at higher levels you get increaed attacks per round, so after a while you dont notice it. And if you done have a problem with the level 20 limit, i say you should buy it.

The party memers is really good, i have trouble choosing who should be at my party, because i want more then the three you can choose to follow you

stoffe
11-10-2006, 01:26 PM
I was going to buy this game. Is it worth the headache?

So far I have to say the game has been well worth the cost. Overall it's great fun to play. It may seem like I complain a lot in this topic, but that's just because it's less to write to complain about the shortfalls than it would be to praise all the things the game does right. :)


The party memers is really good, i have trouble choosing who should be at my party, because i want more then the three you can choose to follow you

Hmm, I wonder if the campaign will break if you bring along more than three. It seems like the engine can support up to 9 simultaneous party members and the 3 member party is by design in the official campaign only. There is a scripting command that can be used to set the max allowed number of simultaneous party members.

Lantzen
11-10-2006, 01:39 PM
Very minor spoiler stoffe

Nope, later in the game you get a perment party memebrs that you cant kick out from the group, but you can still pick three members to follow you, so in this case you get four memebers, five if you count with your own characther

Dont know if this really count as spoiler, but just to be on the safe side

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-10-2006, 02:19 PM
Very minor spoiler stoffe

Nope, later in the game you get a perment party memebrs that you cant kick out from the group, but you can still pick three members to follow you, so in this case you get four memebers, five if you count with your own characther

Dont know if this really count as spoiler, but just to be on the safe side
She ain't permanent :/

ChAiNz.2da
11-10-2006, 02:20 PM
So far I have to say the game has been well worth the cost. Overall it's great fun to play. It may seem like I complain a lot in this topic, but that's just because it's less to write to complain about the shortfalls than it would be to praise all the things the game does right. :)
Agreed. :nod:

Don't let our "complaints" sway you Darth Reign. I've been a longtime fanatic of this series, and it seems stoffe is as well ;) We're just stating some of the things that have changed or are missed from the past series of the NWN campaigns. Overall however, I'm having a blast playing it :D

@stoffe

Just wait (if you haven't done it that is)... the dwarf NPC's quest gets kinda fun and actually has a decent reward item for one part of it ;) I've still 1 more stage (of the 3) to finish his quest (I assume).. so I'm looking forward to see how his story progresses.

Lantzen
11-10-2006, 02:24 PM
Right now i have 12 group members in a mission

To jmac7142
My guess is that you most kill her then, to get in to the heaven, or that she dies shortly after you get there, right?

Aash Li
11-10-2006, 05:58 PM
*grumbles*

Im guessing Atari hasnt yet discovered the joys of DVD... whats up with these 7 discs?!?

I dont supose anyones managed to rip all 7 discs onto a dvd and have it still be playable? (no this isnt intended to be a pirate post). ;;>_>

stoffe
11-10-2006, 06:46 PM
*grumbles*

Im guessing Atari hasnt yet discovered the joys of DVD... whats up with these 7 discs?!?

I dont supose anyones managed to rip all 7 discs onto a dvd and have it still be playable? (no this isnt intended to be a pirate post). ;;>_>

I doubt it would work. While the European version of the game comes on a DVD disc I think SecuROM will ensure that any attempt at making usable backup copies, to DVD or otherwise, will fail.

Seems like you have to pick your poison: Get the EU version and you'll get a DVD but no manual; get the US version and you'll get 7 CDs but a full printed manual. :)

tk102
11-10-2006, 08:06 PM
Got mine from Amazon -- it's US and DVD.
http://www.amazon.com/Atari-26503-Neverwinter-Nights-DVD-ROM/dp/B000E0XX9Q/sr=8-1/qid=1163203472/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8821493-2376065?ie=UTF8&s=videogames

Jae Onasi
11-10-2006, 08:44 PM
Got mine from Amazon -- it's US and DVD.
http://www.amazon.com/Atari-26503-Neverwinter-Nights-DVD-ROM/dp/B000E0XX9Q/sr=8-1/qid=1163203472/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8821493-2376065?ie=UTF8&s=videogames


We got the DVD version from Best Buy (US). My ranger elf Isiolithe and I are having a fine time celebrating my birthday/day after, though we haven't gotten very far into the game. They have a strategy guide out for it already--Jimbo got it to go with the game for my b-day gift. I didn't dare look anywhere farther than the character creation stuff. :)

Aash Li
11-10-2006, 09:01 PM
While fiddling with the chara creation for the last hour, Ive come to this conclusion:

Whoever created the faces for the females sucks. >_> They are all homely.

I hope someone makes a face mod for it..

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-10-2006, 11:18 PM
*grumbles*

Im guessing Atari hasnt yet discovered the joys of DVD... whats up with these 7 discs?!?

I dont supose anyones managed to rip all 7 discs onto a dvd and have it still be playable? (no this isnt intended to be a pirate post). ;;>_>
NWN2 uses SecuRom7, so no--you'll have to buy the DVD edition or suffer through having to use 7 CDs.

Right now i have 12 group members in a mission

To jmac7142
My guess is that you most kill her then, to get in to the heaven, or that she dies shortly after you get there, right?
Shandra uses her Jerro blood to release the demons and devils from their summoning circles. Ammon gets pissed, and because he doesn't know she's his granddaughter he kills her for doing so.

Aash Li
11-11-2006, 02:37 AM
Ok actually made a chara that I slightly liked the look of. Got her into the game, and everything went sluggishly slow... thats not the point though. I was rather surprised that my chara actually looked better in the game. O.o

Tysyacha
11-13-2006, 12:07 AM
ARRRRGGGGHHHH!

I can't decide on a character to play that will actually get me through the game.

Here are my Top 5 and my Bottom 5. Maybe that will help me decide.

MY TOP 5--What I like in NWN2 so far

1. Diplomacy/Persuade. I like being able to avoid fights and sway opinions.
2. Decent Hit Point Value. (Hint: This does NOT mean "Sorcerer" or "Wizard".)
3. Healing. Healing rocks, especially since I haven't found an NPC in-game cleric.
4. Animal pets. "Vanya", a black puma, really helped things out in NWN1.
5. Ice Storm and Fireball! Yeahhhh!!!

MY BOTTOM 5--What I think SUCKS and could care less about

1. Craft Anything. I'd rather spend my time leveling and questing.
2. Tumble. *yawn* Whee, I did a backflip!
3. NOT being able to heal. This frustrates me to no end.
4. Hide/Move Silently. Even with high scores, Stealth Mode doesn't cut it for me.
5. Low Hit Points. I HATE having low hit points!!!

About the races...

My top 3 are Aasimar (touched by an angel), Wood Elf and Duergar (gray dwarf.)

Any suggestions?

Sincerely,
Tysyacha

Lantzen
11-13-2006, 08:04 AM
I use a wizard, that then use some spells so i can boost my hitpoints up to my double value. Later in-game you found a druid that can heal you, after that a Bard and at last, but this is a long way in the game, you get a cleric. But if you dont want to be a wizard, you can try a druid, they got animal companions, and healing spells. But i dont know about there hitpoint, but i think they got decent when they shapeshift, and you can still cast spells when you are shapeshifted. The druids also get the hitpoint boosting magick i think, dont know if they got fireball and ice storm, but they got some other devastaing magick attacks. And if you want diplomancy you can just pick that as a feat, if it's not standard for druids

stoffe
11-13-2006, 09:02 AM
1. Diplomacy/Persuade. I like being able to avoid fights and sway opinions.
2. Decent Hit Point Value. (Hint: This does NOT mean "Sorcerer" or "Wizard".)
3. Healing. Healing rocks, especially since I haven't found an NPC in-game cleric.
4. Animal pets. "Vanya", a black puma, really helped things out in NWN1.
5. Ice Storm and Fireball! Yeahhhh!!!


If you play a cleric you can get most of that aside from number 4 (a named animal companion), though you can get animals aiding you for a time with regular summoning spells. If you pick the correct Domains for your cleric you can cast both Ice Storm (Water domain) and Fireball (Fire domain), though I prefer the Air Domain instead which lets me cast Call Lightning and Chain lightning. Those two together also grants both the Uncanny Dodge and Evasion feats which are quite handy and otherwise off-limits to non-rogues/barbarians/monks).

Clerics are pretty good both at spellcasting and melee combat, since they can wear armor and cast without problems giving them a decent AC, d8 health per level and decent attack bonus (which can be boosted to fighter level and beyond with spells).

I'm currently playing as a female Aasimar cleric (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7928/aasimar3uw1.jpg) of Lathander (started out Neutral Good but has since been shifted to Lawful Good by the game) with the Air (Uncanny Dodge, Call Lightning[3], Chain Lightning[6]) and Water (Evasion, Poison[3], Ice Storm[5]) domains. She focuses on Concentration, Diplomacy, Lore and Heal in the skills department, and uses a bastard sword and a shield in battle when not casting spells.

The Aasimar race seems to be as much of a handicap as an asset in the official campaign though, due to its ECL+1 since it won't be long until players of any race will be granted power similar to one of the Aasimar's main racial advantages (elemental resistance) as part of the main plot. But the Wisdom and Charisma bonuses are handy as a cleric (Wisdom for spells, Charisma for turning undead), and darkvision comes in handy (even though there seems to be a bug where you need to switch to control another party member and then switch back in order to turn on the darkvision when entering a new area.)

If you play as a cleric, remember that it's pointless to memorize any cure/heal spells other than Heal and Greater Restoration, since you can cast the other cure spells without memorizing them by using up another memorized spell of the same level if you click at the little icon at the top right corner of the Quick Cast panel. More versatile to memorize other spells and then convert those as needed for healing. :) I usually save the medkits (uses the Healing skill) for when someone gets poisoned or diseased and use spells or potions for other healing.

A cleric is also good to play as since any party should have one, and I haven't found a joinable NPC party member cleric so far and I'm in Act 2 (don't know how many acts there are in the game yet :)).

Lantzen
11-13-2006, 09:33 AM
Except if you play as a evil aligiment, then you will change the spells to harm, instead of heal. But it looks like you going to play a good characther

Jeremia Skywalk
11-13-2006, 10:39 AM
I am getting the game right now, but before that i want to ask:
a)How similar is it to KoTOR2 (i loved kotor2, spent somethingl ike 999hours at it :D)
b)Is it hard to understand if it is your first d&d game except KoTOR
c)Is campaign storyline as boring as Neverwinter nights? (well the beggining is boredome to highest)
d)Isn't graphics TOO good? (i know everything else works for my comp, but i am not sure bout graphics. TSL was ok at max graphics except v-sync(or whatever) which didn't work at all)
e)Is your alignment choosable at the beggining?

ChAiNz.2da
11-13-2006, 10:59 AM
I am getting the game right now, but before that i want to ask:
a)How similar is it to KoTOR2 (i loved kotor2, spent somethingl ike 999hours at it :D)
b)Is it hard to understand if it is your first d&d game except KoTOR
c)Is campaign storyline as boring as Neverwinter nights? (well the beggining is boredome to highest)
d)Isn't graphics TOO good? (i know everything else works for my comp, but i am not sure bout graphics. TSL was ok at max graphics except v-sync(or whatever) which didn't work at all)
e)Is your alignment choosable at the beggining?

A) Similar in respects to round based combat, d20 rules.. and a "similar" character build tree where as you progress.. you have to choose skills, feats, spells, etc. Just MUCH more detailed.. or well, just alot more choices ;)

B) Not "super" hard.. but I have to admit, I think the devs were thinking their only audience would be D&D players. Some things, it seems to me, are 'assumed'. Because I had played D&D for a number of years I picked up on it, but I don't think it's going to be a reach for any non-D&D players. Don't concern yourself with too many 'numbers' and you'll have a blast playing it. :D

C) Not so much this time around, but the start story is quite bare.. pretty much why it begins in the first place since your mission is to "find out and fill in the blanks". The tutorial was a major drag-its-feet (Harvest Fair), but if you've never played D&D pnp or pc, I'd definitely suggest you bear through it. It'll get you familiar with how things work. After the fair, yeah.. it gets intense. Lots of pretty lights flying around.. some even at your head ;)

ALOT of dialogue reading required, so if you're not into reading and paying attention.. this game will not be for you (or anyone else). It doesn't have a hold-your-hand style journal like Oblivion had, and while it's somewhat "linear", there are side quests that are un-documented. You'll need to "remember" what you come across, or pack-rat everything you find .... hehehe

D) Graphic settings are almost entirely optional. They've included many settings this time, down to mip-mapping, light numbers & styles, etc. There's even an auto-detect for those who aren't too savvy on what all those neat functions do :)

E) Indeed. several to choose.. anywhere to halo wearing to downright mean old bastard.. plus the "I don't really cares" in the middle :D

stoffe
11-13-2006, 11:26 AM
In response to Jeremia Skywalk (but quoting ChAiNz.2da :)):


B) Not "super" hard.. but I have to admit, I think the devs were thinking their only audience would be D&D players. Some things, it seems to me, are 'assumed'. Because I had played D&D for a number of years I picked up on it, but I don't think it's going to be a reach for any non-D&D players.


If you've never played any D&D games before I'd really recommend at least quickly reading through the (full) manual for the game before getting started, even if you usually don't do it for other games. The d20 D&D game system is rather convoluted and there are many things which are not obvious just by seeing what happens while playing. NWN2 seems to do a lot less in-game explaining of game concepts as well, with less tooltips etc than NWN1 had. In my opinion the game is hard enough even when you know how things work, but that might just be me who's poor at it. :) It has many similarities to the starwars d20 system the KotOR games used a variant of, but just as many if not more differences. I've played several D&D CRPGs before and I still discover new things in NWN2 I no idea how it worked earlier. :)


C) Not so much this time around, but the start story is quite bare.. pretty much why it begins in the first place since your mission is to "find out and fill in the blanks". The tutorial was a major drag-its-feet (Harvest Fair), but if you've never played D&D pnp or pc, I'd definitely suggest you bear through it.


It's also good for adjusting your settings and controls, and getting used to controlling your character(s) in a more relaxed environment. Configuring everything in the heat of combat can be a bit annoying. :) In particular since the fighting after the tutorial can get pretty heavy. It's also worth keeping in mind that in general you often get bonus XP afterwards for keeping friendly NPCs alive though battles, though I don't remember if that's the case in the Harborwatch battles.


ALOT of dialogue reading required, so if you're not into reading and paying attention.. this game will not be for you (or anyone else).


Yes, dialog in this game appears to be fairly important so far, so I'd recommend that you focus on at least one of the conversational skills (Diplomacy, Bluff or Intimidate) heavily, since it will make some conversations much easier and/or more rewarding.

For dialog, also keep in mind that the game has an "influence" system a bit similar to KotOR2:TSL where what you say or do will affect what your currently present party members will think of you. Dialog choices and actions also affect your Good<-->Evil and Law<-->Chaos alignments.

(On a separate note conversation seems to suffer from the gender confusion problem as much as previous games. I've lost count of the number of times my female protagonist has been called "he" or "him" even by party members. There also seems to be some bugs in some conversations where you can access some dialog branches to discuss things with party members that have not yet happened in the plot, and some dead-ends that lead nowhere.)


It doesn't have a hold-your-hand style journal like Oblivion had, and while it's somewhat "linear", there are side quests that are un-documented. You'll need to "remember" what you come across, or pack-rat everything you find ...


I think it's a bit too hands-off in some cases though, when fairly major quests don't get any mentioning in the journal at all. A bit annoying since you don't play the whole game in one go without any breaks and may not remember everything from when you last played. At least there is the "Notes" section of the journal where you can type in your own entries to keep track of everything. :)

But overall many quests are not of the "go there and do that" variety, but rather leave you vague instructions and you'll have to figure out yourself how to do it.



D) Graphic settings are almost entirely optional. They've included many settings this time, down to mip-mapping, light numbers & styles, etc. There's even an auto-detect for those who aren't too savvy on what all those neat functions do :)


Unless I'm an unlucky exception the auto-detect is pretty worthless though. I used it first and got on average 8 FPS indoors in the small room you start the game in. If you get terrible performance, try turning off Shadows, Water Refractions and Water Reflections. The game looks a lot worse graphically, but at least that made it playable with FPS in around 25-30 for me, (compared to 10-15 with shadows on). Still a lot worse performance than I get with Oblivion with all the graphical candy turned on there, but at least it's playable. :)



E) Indeed. several to choose.. anywhere to halo wearing to downright mean old bastard.. plus the "I don't really cares" in the middle :D

It's probably easier to be a good guy/gal on the first playthrough since I assume things are easier if you are a likable sort, but I'm sure it's playable no matter what alignment you pick (though I always play as good characters personally).

Jae Onasi
11-13-2006, 02:40 PM
Jae chiming in....I'm not terribly far into the whole thing yet, but I'd agree with what ChAiNz and stoffe are saying on a lot of things.

In response to Jeremia Skywalk (but quoting ChAiNz.2da :)):
If you've never played any D&D games before I'd really recommend at least quickly reading through the (full) manual for the game before getting started, even if you usually don't do it for other games.
I'd recommend reading it even if you are familiar with D&D, because I found a couple very useful hints in there. Fighters are fighters are fighters, but knowing what kinds of different things rogues, paladins, and particularly the different spell-casting types can do is very useful.
The d20 D&D game system is rather convoluted and there are many things which are not obvious....It has many similarities to the starwars d20 system the KotOR games used a variant of, but just as many if not more differences. I've played several D&D CRPGs before and I still discover new things in NWN2 I no idea how it worked earlier. :)
I've not gotten high enough to get to the prestige classes (hey, I only got the game on Thursday, and the family would rebel if I sat on the computer all day. :D ), but it does help to know the rules, and it does help a lot to know what the prestige classes entail so you can pick feats accordingly. The D&D RPG Official Home Page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rules) has a lot of great info--I've found the glossary particularly helpful. Obviously they don't list all the rules because they'd like you to buy the books, but you can learn a lot just by going through the Game Rules and glossary sections.

It's also good for adjusting your settings and controls, and getting used to controlling your character(s) in a more relaxed environment. Configuring everything in the heat of combat can be a bit annoying. In particular since the fighting after the tutorial can get pretty heavy.
I thought the tutorial was helpful, and gave a little background to the character, which I like because I enjoy the story part a lot.
Heh, you're not kidding about the fighting. I got made very dead last night because I didn't quite pay attention fast enough to that wizard fighting with all the other bad guys. :D

I also noticed, interestingly, that some of the loot is set, and some of it's randomly generated. Of course, this meant I had to replay one fight about 6 times (because I are an idiot and forgot to save _after_ the fight, but it was good practice) to get back to some decent loot in 1 crate.

Yes, dialog in this game appears to be fairly important so far, so I'd recommend that you focus on at least one of the conversational skills (Diplomacy, Bluff or Intimidate) heavily, since it will make some conversations much easier and/or more rewarding.I also put some points into craft alchemy--it's 'cheaper' to make some of the stuff than buy it. I haven't found a benefit to crafting weapons, since you find so darn many of the things.

(On a separate note conversation seems to suffer from the gender confusion problem as much as previous games. I've lost count of the number of times my female protagonist has been called "he" or "him" even by party members. There also seems to be some bugs in some conversations where you can access some dialog branches to discuss things with party members that have not yet happened in the plot, and some dead-ends that lead nowhere.) I haven't paid enough attention to catch the gender confusion. :) And I keep clicking on the characters, expecting them to have conversations like in Kotor.... :)

I think it's a bit too hands-off in some cases though, when fairly major quests don't get any mentioning in the journal at all. A bit annoying since you don't play the whole game in one go without any breaks and may not remember everything from when you last played. At least there is the "Notes" section of the journal where you can type in your own entries to keep track of everything.
I noticed that, too. I also noticed one time that closing the journal and reopening it made one of the sidequests pop up after all, but yeah, the notes section is good. :) I have to start marking down which merchant has which goodies.


But overall many quests are not of the "go there and do that" variety, but rather leave you vague instructions and you'll have to figure out yourself how to do it.
I don't mind having to figure out some stuff as long as it's not too vague.


Unless I'm an unlucky exception the auto-detect is pretty worthless though. I used it first and got on average 8 FPS indoors in the small room you start the game in.
I used the auto-detect because I was just too darn impatient to get going on the game--I figured I could tinker with it later if I had to. :D The only thing I don't like is all the camera views except the top-down are so jerky that they give me motion sickness moving around, and I'm not a motion sickness kind of gal. I like the chase view because it's a little more immersive for me, but I prefer not to urp on my keyboard, too.


It's probably easier to be a good guy/gal on the first playthrough since I assume things are easier if you are a likable sort, but I'm sure it's playable no matter what alignment you pick (though I always play as good characters personally).
With all the choices, I can see how someone could get hooked on this game for a very long, long time playing all the permutations. :)

Jeremia Skywalk
11-13-2006, 03:13 PM
Hmmm game seems nice, after what you are saying :D Well i know the absolute basics of d&d, but i have never played paper and pen version though. I also tried playing NWN I for almost until completing those beast part quests, so i know SOME stuff. I know playing lawful good would be easier, but i don't know it is realy for me. I love chaotic neutral, but i found it annoyingly hard to choose right convo choices.

Anyways i will follow your advice and try getting some kind of rulebook (pretty sure my patience will run out after 30 minute reading xD) and check the D&D homepage.

stoffe
11-13-2006, 03:15 PM
but it does help to know the rules, and it does help a lot to know what the prestige classes entail so you can pick feats accordingly.

Seems like prestige classes aren't that useful if you play as a spellcasting class though. While they do give you nifty abilities they also tend to weaken your spellcasting abilities in the process, denying you spell slots and lowering the save DC of your spells.


The D&D RPG Official Home Page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rules) has a lot of great info--I've found the glossary particularly helpful. Obviously they don't list all the rules because they'd like you to buy the books, but you can learn a lot just by going through the Game Rules and glossary sections.

It's worth keeping in mind that the game doesn't slavishly follow the d20 rules though, they have taken some liberties to make the game more enjoyable to play on a computer. While much is the same some skills, feats and spells work differently, and some other rules are changed or unused as well.



I thought the tutorial was helpful, and gave a little background to the character, which I like because I enjoy the story part a lot.
Heh, you're not kidding about the fighting. I got made very dead last night because I didn't quite pay attention fast enough to that wizard fighting with all the other bad guys. :D


I did enjoy the tutorial as well, it gave you a little background for your character's place in the world and some motivations for what was to come, and let you try out different aspects of the game in a non-threatening environment.

Enemy wizards are annoying since they have no reason to hold back, unlike your own party wizards. Usually my whole party gang up on enemy casters and then worry about sorting out the melee grunts once the caster is beaten into submission.

Spells with Will saves i particular tend to be annoying since your own melee grunts like Khelgar have atrocious will save bonuses. Khelgar in particular has gotten charmed and nearly killed by our own allies almost every time we have encountered a Succubus so far. Apparently they can sense who their charms are most effective on. :)



I also put some points into craft alchemy--it's 'cheaper' to make some of the stuff than buy it. I haven't found a benefit to crafting weapons, since you find so darn many of the things.


If you play as a cleric it's even cheaper to use healing spells though, since those are free as long as you don't need the spells for something else. :) I mostly use potions as backup healing during battle when my cleric is too busy fighting the enemy to tend to injured party members. If you have a good healing skill medkits heal a lot more than both potions and spells though (Heal, Gr. Restoration and the Mass Cure spells excluded).


I haven't paid enough attention to catch the gender confusion. :) And I keep clicking on the characters, expecting them to have conversations like in Kotor.... :)


You can talk to your party members, and most likely should since they have things to say and you can gain (or lose) influence with some of them during that dialog. Shandra in particular seems to have lots of dialog accessed this way. To talk to a party member hold down the right mouse button on top of them and pick the "Talk" option in the popup context menu.


I don't mind having to figure out some stuff as long as it's not too vague.


Neither do I, but some things are a bit too vague for my liking. I haven't managed to figure out what you are supposed to do with Kistrel which you encounter in Duskwood for example, and I've still explored the entire area thoroughly.

ChAiNz.2da
11-13-2006, 03:33 PM
Neither do I, but some things are a bit too vague for my liking. I haven't managed to figure out what you are supposed to do with Kistrel which you encounter in Duskwood for example, and I've still explored the entire area thoroughly.
If you have/had Sand in your party, he mentions something about feeding spiders "bugs". Without spoiling too much, explore outside the well cave in the Duskwood worldmap area (not Ember)...

Hint: Take healing potions & grunts ;)

stoffe
11-13-2006, 03:58 PM
If you have/had Sand in your party, he mentions something about feeding spiders "bugs". Without spoiling too much, explore outside the well cave in the Duskwood worldmap area (not Ember)...

Hint: Take healing potions & grunts ;)


Hmm, you mean the little insect medallion or whatever it is you get from the gnome werevolves in the cave further up the mountainside? I had Sand in the group when stumbling upon Kistrel, but I can't remember him saying anything useful other than wanting a giant book to squish the spider with. :) I even had the druid (Elanee?) in my party at the time but she didn't give any clear hints either.

I can imagine Duskwood would be rather frustrating if your main character is a wizard or sorcerer who can't hold their own unbuffed in close combat. Wonder if you encounter any areas where melee combat is useless to compensate? :)

I hope I can return and finish that business even if I've already finished the Ember plotline and have now been sent by Lord Gnasher and that Luskan witch conspiring against the party sorceress to deal with Black Garius at some fort ruin.

Haven't gone there yet though, felt like I needed a short breather after the rather combat intense quest where you should protect that shard-bearing noble from the demon and devil hordes invading his home, and later the Moonstone Mask. (I get the feeling the Warlock you encounter at the end there is Ammon Jerro, turned to the "dark side", since he has the same glowing facial tattoos as the wizard in the opening movie where the silver sword is shattered. Shandra didn't seem to recognize him though.)

Samuel Dravis
11-13-2006, 04:01 PM
Ugh. I want this game muchly.
Thankfully some friends and I are going to have a PnP session Saturday (in a friggan swamp!), but regardless I'mma get this one soon. I loved NWN and KotOR, so it seems like a sure bet for me. :p

Lantzen
11-13-2006, 04:02 PM
Wohoo, just finished the game the dark path, there is some nice suprises there... Then i reloaded the game to finish it the good way, and after a 10+ min fight, the game frezzed, and jumped out to windows :firemad:

I most say, the story just get better and better the hole way throgh the game, from a sertent part in the game, where you get a warlock companion, i really loved the game


And i dont think the begining is that bad, with the fare, you get a insight who evryone is in the village, and how you have lived you life uptil the point where the game starts

ChAiNz.2da
11-13-2006, 04:04 PM
@stoffe, Yup.. that one ;)

Kristel should still be there, and even though I know you're a spider freak.. don't squish this one.. you'll be happy you didn't (sooner or later) :lol:

Lantzen
11-13-2006, 04:49 PM
it took around 20 min to defeat the end boss the god way for me, and i most say i got a little disapointment at the good ending. IMO the evil ending was way better, but people wont probaly think the same as me. We will se what you guys think when you finish it

stoffe
11-13-2006, 10:36 PM
Gah, NWN2 has just turned into a management game. :confused:


I've just gotten to the part where you are assigned Crossroad Keep which you are supposed to get in shape somehow, but the game hasn't given any instructions on how, and I'm rather confused as to what I'm supposed to do with it.

Any suggestions on how to best solve that quest? Can you build/fix/repair everything or do you have to prioritize? Can you use your own gold to fund stuff, or does the keep have to supply its own funds for everything? In what particular order should things best be built? Is this quest on a timer when things get done or how far along you go, or is it tied to how far you have advanced in the main plot?

I'm very poor at management games and all this quest has succeeded in is to utterly confuse me so far. :( I'd rather not play along and do lots of other quests only to have misunderstood something earlier and have to reload and re-do hours of playing.

Jae Onasi
11-14-2006, 01:05 AM
Seems like prestige classes aren't that useful if you play as a spellcasting class though. While they do give you nifty abilities they also tend to weaken your spellcasting abilities in the process, denying you spell slots and lowering the save DC of your spells.
I'm doing the ranger route this time, but I'll try out the magic-users next time (I'm hardly into the game and I'm already talking about 'next time'.... :D )



It's worth keeping in mind that the game doesn't slavishly follow the d20 rules though, they have taken some liberties to make the game more enjoyable to play on a computer. While much is the same some skills, feats and spells work differently, and some other rules are changed or unused as well.
Some things don't translate well to the computer. When I've played PnP with some friends, we always had a number of 'house rules' because some of the official rules are too cumbersome, e.g. we ignored attacks of opportunity completely--slows things down too much while we figure out who gets what extra attack.


Enemy wizards are annoying since they have no reason to hold back, unlike your own party wizards. Usually my whole party gang up on enemy casters and then worry about sorting out the melee grunts once the caster is beaten into submission. I gave that a whirl today and it works very nicely at whupping up on those obnoxious wizards. :D

If you play as a cleric it's even cheaper to use healing spells though, since those are free as long as you don't need the spells for something else. :) I mostly use potions as backup healing during battle when my cleric is too busy fighting the enemy to tend to injured party members. If you have a good healing skill medkits heal a lot more than both potions and spells though (Heal, Gr. Restoration and the Mass Cure spells excluded).
I keep all the healing stuff out of paranoia. :)

You can talk to your party members,...To talk to a party member hold down the right mouse button on top of them and pick the "Talk" option in the popup context menu. That was a case of 'Jae neets to follow her own advice and RTFM' :D . You'd think they wouldn't bury it on page 100 and not even include instructions in the tutorial at least on how to talk to your buddies (unless I missed that). Thanks for the tip, however--if I hadn't found it in the book rather fortuitously, I'd still have been lost on that.

Neither do I, but some things are a bit too vague for my liking. I haven't managed to figure out what you are supposed to do with Kistrel which you encounter in Duskwood for example, and I've still explored the entire area thoroughly.
I haven't made it that far yet. I'm still whomping on the obnoxious creatures in the graveyard. I spend too much time playing on the workbenches. :)
That made me think of the battle music--which I like better in this game than NWN 1. I noticed some of the background music is the same in both games--not that I'm complaining, because I don't mind decent music being re-used for continuity's sake. I just thought it was interesting to note in the back of my mind while I was tossing holy water on the undead. Of course, now every time I hear that theme I think 'Uh-oh, bad guys around the corner'. It's kind of like when you hear the Jaws theme and know the shark is coming, even though you can't see it. :D

Edit: Did you see the latest Sticky on Extreme Lag 3 (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=512809&forum=116) in the NWN2 tech support self-help forum? Seems like lagging is a problem for a a number of people.
I don't seem to have too much of a problem unless I turn everything way up.

@RedHawke--you online D&D junkie, you. :)

And off-topic a bit....I got to chat on WGN radio (AM 720 out of Chicago) the other night talking to the 'Technology Tailor' about 'Adult Gamers'. Apparently the average age of people buying games is now 38, and about 25% of players are female. Since I was 'over the 38 mark' and 'female', I got to talk with them on the air, which was cool. Of course, I told them Jimbo got me hooked on Kotor. We talked about the new consoles (agreed PS3 was priced too high) and discussed who gamed more--my son or me--"depends if it's a school night or not." :)

Jeremia Skywalk
11-14-2006, 10:02 AM
DAMN! My video card didn't pull it off. Well i wanted to get a new one long time ago, so maybe now i have a reason to do so.

stoffe
11-14-2006, 10:21 AM
I haven't made it that far yet. I'm still whomping on the obnoxious creatures in the graveyard. I spend too much time playing on the workbenches. :)


That graveyard and crypts were pretty fun. There is something strangely satisfying about instantly killing handfuls of zombies and skeletons with Turn Undead when playing as a cleric. :)



I noticed some of the background music is the same in both games--not that I'm complaining, because I don't mind decent music being re-used for continuity's sake. I just thought it was interesting to note in the back of my mind while I was tossing holy water on the undead.


Seems like they've re-used a lot of audio from the first NWN; music, NPC soundsets and sound effects in general. Not that I mind as long as it fits the setting. (Unfortunately that still means you encounter thugs shouting "Your taint shall be cleansed!" with a celestial voice while attacking when the devs have been too lazy to give the NPC a proper soundset, since that's still the default one. Fairly common in the NWN1 campaign, seems to be fairly common in NWN2 as well.)


Edit: Did you see the latest Sticky on Extreme Lag 3 (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=512809&forum=116) in the NWN2 tech support self-help forum? Seems like lagging is a problem for a a number of people.


I quickly browsed through some of those threads, but it seems they've not discovered anything new. I got rid of most of the lag by turning off shadows and water reflections/refractions. I still get around 22-25 FPS in some outdoor areas, but at least that's somewhat playable. Still pretty ridiculous since I can run Oblivion with HDR lighting, high-detail shadows and most settings at max and get around 35 FPS while staring at an Oblivion gate in a forrest area.

* * *

Do anyone who have completed the game have any hints for how best to handle the Crossroad Keep management (mentioned above)? I'd rather not screw up and have to reload an old save and redo hours worth of gameplay later, so I'll have to put the game on hold and play something else until I can get a better idea of how that "quest" is supposed to work. And just when things started to get more interesting with the main plot too. :(

Lantzen
11-14-2006, 10:31 AM
stoffe here some help for you managment problem

The quest aint on a timelimit, but it can feel like it. You will know what i mean when you get there. On some point at the story, you cant build more until something special have happend, that you will also know when you get there. And you can take money from your own pocket to build the things in there. I recomend that you build the libary quite fast, becuse thats importatnt to the storyline, and the rest of whats inside the keep. Eventuly it good to have build evrything in the keep, but there is no need to hurry.

Then you can recruit people to work in your keep, travel around a little, talk to people you have meet before and so on. And as i know nothing can make the game crash becuse you did somehing wrong in the keep, i didnt understand so much either at the begining, but then i learnt what was good and so on. In the begining you should set your units on recruting, and after that on training. Then you send them out to patrol, the land, the roads or both. The roads is most importnt in the begining i think, for they will get trade caravals to go to the keep, and you can earn money on them.

ChAiNz.2da
11-14-2006, 10:44 AM
Do anyone who have completed the game have any hints for how best to handle the Crossroad Keep management (mentioned above)? I'd rather not screw up and have to reload an old save and redo hours worth of gameplay later, so I'll have to put the game on hold and play something else until I can get a better idea of how that "quest" is supposed to work. And just when things started to get more interesting with the main plot too. :(
This one is a pain in my arse as well... If I wanted to do that, I'd have bought Age of Empires :rolleyes:

Not sure about time length, but I noticed if you ask for a report on the Keep.. there's a "time length" followed by a percentage. I don't like the looks of that seeing as I'm already up to 25% and haven't gotten squat done.

Here's what I've figured out/done (so far) that may help you stoffe, but methinks we're both in a bind here ;)


= "Recruits" =
-Armorer in Highcliff
-Sergeant in Owl's Well (female warrior thinking of going back to Amn)
-Miner in Owl's Well
-Miner in Port Llast (Inn, Lady that gave you the Bradbury quest)
-Deekin in Neverwinter (after you have Veedle rebuild the interior market)
-Weaponsmith at Fort Locke
-I assume Teela the dancer at Moonstone Mask... but I haven't gotten her to come to the Keep yet (if possible)?
-The Farmer at your old home (can't remember the name of the place of all things.. hehehe)

= "Other" =
-You can't use your own money (which sucks) to do upgrades. Everythig depends on your "budget"
-The miners will mine all those ore discoveries you've made during the game
-They supply the ore to the armorer & weaponsmith to upgrade your men's equipment
-Upgrades can't happen unless you rebuild the Keep's interior armor/smithy buildings. I'd suggest doing this as they carry extremely niiiice gear. As does Deekin.
-Better wider roads and outlying area brings in more money
-Guards must patrol or merchants and money come in slowly
-Upgrading the Keep's interior unlocks rooms, decent gear & a visitor do the West Wing first (imo).

stoffe
11-14-2006, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the hints both of you. I guess I'll give playing SimFort another try. If things seem to go to hell I suppose I'll shelf the game and play some more System Shock 2 until a walkthrough of that part gets done. :(

If they at least had the decency to add hints in the list of choices for a character with high wisdom and/or intelligence to reflect the character's presumed skill it would be more bearable. Just because I'm stupid doesn't mean that my character has to be. You'd think that a character's brain stats would have an impact on more than just combat in D&D, but apparently not. :)

Aash Li
11-14-2006, 11:14 AM
I dont like how ridiculously long the wait time is between attacks... its not realtime action with that delay... >_>

Lantzen
11-14-2006, 11:16 AM
Chainz actualy you can use your own money to pay for uppgrades, you maybe dont have that much money, there is quite high sum. I did it with over half the things there. And stoffe i think there is a walkthorgh/tip thread about the keep at NWN2 official forum, try search there if you have to much trouble.

And about the dancer
You find a girl named Joy later in the merchant quarters, she will go to the keep to dance.

ChAiNz.2da
11-14-2006, 11:24 AM
I dont like how ridiculously long the wait time is between attacks... its not realtime action with that delay... >_>
Agreed.

It does get better, eventually, once your members start getting extra attacks.. but up until that point, you can definitely tell it's a turn-based system.. hehehe

What's killing me is the sometimes inability to move to a certain point on the ground because some dumbass NPC doesn't get the hint to get out of the way...

Also, I've noticed that you or NPC's can get stuck behind placeables, especially if your NPC's 'bump' you into one because of the quirky pattern movement. The only way to get un-stuck is to have one of the other npc transition to a new area (which may or may not be 'suitable' depending on your situation). It's happened to me twice now. :fist:

@Zat yah, oops forgot about that :o
For the weapons & armor upgrades right? I meant to say for the Keep's upgrades (shops, lands, interiors, etc.) and such.. but my fingers type faster than I think :xp: hehehe

Now if you could (or can?) use your own money for the Keep's & land upgrades, yeah.. that'd be nice.

Lantzen
11-14-2006, 12:24 PM
You can use your money to uppgrade the keep, but most thing cost around 20.000+, so thats why you maybe couldent do it. I found it out, when i had keep founds of 10.000 then tryed to buy a thing for 20.000, and i lost half my money :rolleyes:

SpaceAlex
11-14-2006, 12:48 PM
Well, it would appear the game still doesn't run perfectly on the 8800 GTX, but it still plays it much smoother than the 7800GTX. I get playable framerates outside (45 average i belive... it runs at around 30 FPS in public places and 50+ FPS indoors and non-public places) with all settings turned on (except water reflections) or set to high (1680x1050 res).

I still find this game to be pretty odd though, because Oblivion runs much better at max settings and HDR + 4xAA, 16xAF turned on. :rolleyes:

ChAiNz.2da
11-14-2006, 01:03 PM
You can use your money to uppgrade the keep, but most thing cost around 20.000+, so thats why you maybe couldent do it. I found it out, when i had keep founds of 10.000 then tryed to buy a thing for 20.000, and i lost half my money :rolleyes:
Really? That's kewl.. I guess I've never tried upgrading something when my "budget" was too low for the price he was asking. Thanks for the heads up! If that works... kick arse, I'm going home and spending some money :xp: hehehe...

stoffe
11-14-2006, 10:04 PM
I'd rather not screw up and have to reload an old save and redo hours worth of gameplay later, so I'll have to put the game on hold and play something else until I can get a better idea of how that "quest" is supposed to work.

Surprise, guess what? Uh huh, I've managed to screw up the stronghold quest before even reaching the 25% mark, and have done a few other quests in between as well. An entire evening of playing down the drain. Why did I know this would happen, but continue playing anyway... :roleyess:

Having pitifully few greycloaks who are poorly trained and only averagely equipped they are not good enough to handle any "special missions" thrown their way. And of course those special missions disappear if you don't accept them right away when offered, which I found out the hard way by missing out the first one entirely since I figured I could come back for it. The troops are not good enough to attract more people, or keep the lands or roads reasonably safe. And I'm playing on easy difficulty (which I suspect only affects combat and nothing else).

This game used to be fun, now I'm seriously contemplating to stop playing. Crap like this is so tiresomely annoying. How I despise management games. I want to continue playing a fun fantasy RPG, not SimFortress. :cry8:

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-14-2006, 11:25 PM
Surprise, guess what? Uh huh, I've managed to screw up the stronghold quest before even reaching the 25% mark, and have done a few other quests in between as well. An entire evening of playing down the drain. Why did I know this would happen, but continue playing anyway... :roleyess:

Having pitifully few greycloaks who are poorly trained and only averagely equipped they are not good enough to handle any "special missions" thrown their way. And of course those special missions disappear if you don't accept them right away when offered, which I found out the hard way by missing out the first one entirely since I figured I could come back for it. The troops are not good enough to attract more people, or keep the lands or roads reasonably safe. And I'm playing on easy difficulty (which I suspect only affects combat and nothing else).

This game used to be fun, now I'm seriously contemplating to stop playing. Crap like this is so tiresomely annoying. How I despise management games. I want to continue playing a fun fantasy RPG, not SimFortress. :(
You could always check to see if there's a variable or something that could be set in order to uhh... train your Greycloaks a little faster.

Aash Li
11-15-2006, 12:27 AM
I suggest waiting until the game is dicked around with more, and people figure out how to make the game less like simfortress, and get rid of the asinine long waits between attacks. *nods*

tk102
11-15-2006, 12:36 AM
I suggest waiting...until people figure out how to make the game less like simfortress
Either that or be one of those people who figure it out! Think of this experience as fuel for your modding skills.

Speaking from naiveté, are there still .nss files that you could write? I'm thinking maybe the StartNewModule function a la "Skip the Endar Spire".

Tysyacha
11-15-2006, 02:10 AM
Dumb question about levels...

Say I'm a Cleric, and I have the Water Domain. That means I will be able
to cast Poison (3) and Ice Storm (5). Uh...I tried getting to level 3 as a
Cleric, which was really easy, but there was no Poison spell listed in my book.

My guess is that you learn a new "spell level" every TWO levels, not
every ONE level. So the earliest I'd be able to cast Ice Storm would
be level 10, not level 5, if I went Cleric all the way through. Righty?

And if I were a Sorcerer, Ice Storm is a 4th-level spell, so I'd be
able to cast it at level 8, not level 4. Aye?

Tupac Amaru
11-15-2006, 06:30 AM
Say I'm a Cleric, and I have the Water Domain. That means I will be able
to cast Poison (3) and Ice Storm (5). Uh...I tried getting to level 3 as a
Cleric, which was really easy, but there was no Poison spell listed in my book.

My guess is that you learn a new "spell level" every TWO levels, not
every ONE level. So the earliest I'd be able to cast Ice Storm would
be level 10, not level 5, if I went Cleric all the way through. Righty?You are confusing spell level and character level. Ice storm is a level 5 spell. Clerics can't cast those until they reach level 9. In the case of clerics and druids, they gain access to a new spell level at uneven character levels while the other levels "only" allow you to memorize more spells. The best they can cast in this game are level 9 spells. It's a bit different for other spellcaster classes. Take a look at the spell progression tables in the appendix of the manual.

stoffe
11-15-2006, 08:37 AM
Either that or be one of those people who figure it out! Think of this experience as fuel for your modding skills.

Speaking from naiveté, are there still .nss files that you could write? I'm thinking maybe the StartNewModule function a la "Skip the Endar Spire".

Well, after getting some sleep to let the irritation fade away I'm too stubborn to just give up, so I'll throw my "no cheats/mods on first playthrough" rule out the window and go that route instead. I've been poking around the CK scripts a bit to figure out how things fit together. Hopefully I can do some workaround scripts to compensate for my early screwups so I won't have to replay all that again. :)

"Skip" type mods wouldn't work as easily for this though since it's not a regular linear quest, but rather an on-going project that runs in parallel with everything else you do in the game, and I get the feeling it will continue throughout the remaining game and have significance for the main plot later how well you do it. (You could in essence achieve a "skip" type mod by rigging the scripts to always produce the most favorable outcome possible regardless of your choices, but I'd rather not go that far just yet.)

All NWScript source code is included for NWN2 so it's mostly a matter of figuring out how the code fits together and see what can be tampered with without breaking anything else. Since Obsidian still seems to be patching the game it's probably not a good idea to mess with the campaign modules directly, which would most likely create trouble with the auto-updater, so I'll settle for a "patch" approach with scripts that modify the same globals the keep scripts does. Fortunately there is still a console command that allows you to execute your own scripts in-game so that's a fairly simple solution. :)

tk102
11-15-2006, 11:12 AM
Fortunately there is still a console command that allows you to execute your own scripts in-game so that's a fairly simple solution.
How thoughtful. Are there similar commands for recruiting or spawning NPCs? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=135519) :p

Thanks for the info Tupac Amaru and stoffe -mkb-.

Lantzen
11-15-2006, 11:50 AM
I dont think you hace screw up, recuit a sergeant and set him/her on patruling the roads when your men is patruling them, training when you men are training and so on. Also set the troops on training, buy them better wepons and shields, then set them on recrutin. And at last to guard the roads, think the roads are easier then the the other area. For you most still be able to train them, right?

stoffe
11-15-2006, 01:12 PM
I dont think you hace screw up, recuit a sergeant and set him/her on patruling the roads when your men is patruling them, training when you men are training and so on. Also set the troops on training, buy them better wepons and shields, then set them on recrutin. And at last to guard the roads, think the roads are easier then the the other area. For you most still be able to train them, right?

Hmm, how many graycloaks is it possible to have recruited at the 25% time threshold? I currently have 72 Graycloaks and 24 Recruits.

I've burned through estimately 300 000 gp out of my own pocket so far to upgrade weapons, armor, fortifications and other structures in the keep. The 70000 gp Lord Gnasher supplied didn't last for much, and the keep only has a measly 3000 gp income. Still merchants, peasants and graycloaks seems to stay away from the place. Not exactly a rewarding quest where you have to shell out insane amounts of gold and still get meager results.

I've only found one sergeant to recruit so far, who I put on recruitment as well in hopes it would bolster the numbers, but doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

* * *

When you reach the 25% time threshold, will all recruitment, Land/Road security stats etc stop updating until you proceed with the main quest? Will you hear from the novice adventurers (I sent them to investigate the KOSH) or the special mission sent to deal with bandits (mission number 2) again, or will that wait until after you proceed beyond 25% time as well?

Is it possible to have gotten a decent land/road security by this threshold (I have Low for both), or that will take more time?

(Seems like the time updates every time you enter the Fort courtyard so if you enter/leave the inn or the merchants shop often enough the keep time advances at an insane pace.)

Lantzen
11-15-2006, 02:42 PM
Yepp, the time stop at some places, then you most continue with the main quest, thinks it 25%,50% and 82%. Most of the things i payed with my own money, and it wasnt around 50-70% i got good security. And yes, you can walk out to the courtyard then in to speed up. I think you probaly have hitted the time stop, continue with the main quest and the time will start to incease again

Some of the sergeants you can also change, so they dont just need to recuit, i changed my sergeant, so when the men was paruling, the sergeant paruled, when they was recuting the sergeant was recuting and so on. And much of the things in the keep wont become good until later, when you got longer in the main quest

stoffe
11-16-2006, 12:48 PM
Do anyone know how you switch to a female preview model in the armor set item maker window in the NWN2 Toolset? In Aurora Toolset 1 you could toggle between a male/female view with a set of radio buttons, but I can't seem to find any way to do it in the NWN2 Toolset. Help?

(I believe I've said it before but it's worth repeating: The NWN2 Toolset is a complete and utter disaster from a user interface perspective. It should be used as a warning textbook example for how not to design a user interface.)

ChAiNz.2da
11-16-2006, 01:10 PM
(I believe I've said it before but it's worth repeating: The NWN2 Toolset is a complete and utter disaster from a user interface perspective. It should be used as a warning textbook example for how not to design a user interface.)
Amen. Hey, at least you've got to the point where you're looking how to switch a preview.. I can't even get that far :xp: The lack of intuitive interface, and the absence of a detailed right-click content menu (if you're lucky enough to even get a right-click menu) is really a poor, poor design. I still call "bulls---" when the devs say they created the OC with the same Toolset... then again, it could explain some of the errors I've caught ;)

It took me 90 minutes to open a dialogue file the other night. :rolleyes:

tk102
11-16-2006, 01:17 PM
It took me 90 minutes to open a dialogue file the other night. :rolleyes:

Pfft. With you and your low end systems (http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2200280&postcount=26) this shouldn't be a surprise. (:p)

Do the .dlg use the same GFF format as TSL? I know the TLK file format changed a bit. I'm just wondering how many modifications it would take to get something like K-GFF or DLGEditor to work with NWN2's files.

Edit: (rereads "90 minutes") that must have been a very important dialog to you! :) I don't think I could wait longer than 90 seconds.

ChAiNz.2da
11-16-2006, 02:02 PM
Pfft. With you and your low end systems (http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2200280&postcount=26) this shouldn't be a surprise. (:p)

Do the .dlg use the same GFF format as TSL? I know the TLK file format changed a bit. I'm just wondering how many modifications it would take to get something like K-GFF or DLGEditor to work with NWN2's files.

Edit: (rereads "90 minutes") that must have been a very important dialog to you! :) I don't think I could wait longer than 90 seconds.
:xp:

90 minutes, "including" the the time it took me to search, dismantle, fail horribly, re-try, stop cussing and actually finally getting the right one.. hehehe

The structure is either dead on, or there wasn't anything that looked "out of place". Because of the horrible (with a capital "horrible") GUI layout, I couldn't really tell you what fields were actually still there or not. Half the things I kept trying to do was in an apparent non-related, non-functional side window.. *sigh* I swear I was like a lost child in the forest... analogy: where you get so panicky you start clicking things just to see if something would work :lol:

Sometimes you get lucky and click on something and a field appears.. other times, not so much >.<

tk102
11-16-2006, 02:06 PM
Sounds like fun! :D

Well if anyone wants to send me off a .dlg file from the game to peer at, I'm curious. PM me.

(Yes I have the game but I'm saving it for Xmas while I enjoy Oblivion.)

stoffe
11-16-2006, 02:09 PM
I still call "bulls---" when the devs say they created the OC with the same Toolset... then again, it could explain some of the errors I've caught ;)


I would think so too. If they actually used the Toolset script editor to write all those scripts the Obsidian designers should get a medal for their near-divine patience. That blasted thing constantly seems to be doing what it thinks is best for the moment, rather than what you tell it to do (including changing focus for input fields while you type, move the cursor to where it thinks it should be rather than where you click, save the script where it thinks it should be under a name of its choosing rather than just present a Save dialog box, etc).


Do the .dlg use the same GFF format as TSL?


The DLG format is rather radically different, but the GFF format seems to be mostly the same, at least in part. It's possible they have new field types I haven't run into yet in my still very limited tinkering. I've managed to edit a few UTI files with K-GFF without breaking anything at least (since the toolset seems to enjoy having some fields set as read-only. :roleyess:)


I know the TLK file format changed a bit. I'm just wondering how many modifications it would take to get something like K-GFF or DLGEditor to work with NWN2's files.


K-GFF seems to work, at least with some file types, as it is now. As for the DLGEditor it would likely require quite a bit of rewrites since the handling of conditional/action scripts appears to be rather different, as is the animation handling. I.e. the data fields for each entry/reply are mostly different, but the basic composition of the file (EntryList --> RepliesList --> ReplyList --> EntriesList) is still the same.

Have you looked at the NWN2 Toolset? Seems to be inspired by the worst parts of the Visual Studio GUI. Apparently the concept of using windows didn't appeal to the Obsidian designers. They have one big window where they have crammed in every aspect of modding in a myriad of different panels, tabs and frames in one big mess, where each panel is about the size of a postage stamp in the standard configuration if you don't have a monitor with a resolution higher than 1280x1024. No division of tasks into logical areas in their own windows, few right-click context menus and menu choices pertaining to all those tabs and frames in one big mess in the main menu bar. Lots of "property lists" with few explanations what the fields are for, and some seem to be without range and type checking of the input. Oh, and search features are of course redundant, obviously everyone already knows where all data is located. :roleyess:

tk102
11-16-2006, 02:22 PM
K-GFF seems to work, at least with some file types, as it is now. That makes me happy. I guess it shouldn't surprise me, but it does kind of. :) As for the DLGEditor it would likely require quite a bit of rewrites since the handling of conditional/action scripts appears to be rather different, as is the animation handling. I.e. the data fields for each entry/reply are mostly different, but the basic composition of the file (EntryList --> RepliesList --> ReplyList --> EntriesList) is still the same.I see. I imagined the animations, "emotions", soundsets, and all that might be rather different, but I thought the script portions would be relatively the same... they seemed to work rather well in TSL, IMHO.
Have you looked at the NWN2 Toolset? Seems to be inspired by the worst parts of the Visual Studio GUI. Apparently the concept of using windows didn't appeal to the Obsidian designers. They have one big window where they have crammed in every aspect of modding in a myriad of different panels, tabs and frames in one big mess, where each panel is about the size of a postage stamp in the standard configuration if you don't have a monitor with a resolution higher than 1280x1024.
:lol: Sounds a lot like DLGEditor or KSE, but at least I can blame Perl/Tk limitations. :xp: I haven't looked at the toolset much at all considering I don't have the game installed.

Oh, and search features are of course redundant, obviously everyone already knows where all data is located. :roleyess:*sarcasm detected* So there's a niche for a FindRefs, I take it. Does the Toolset provide good savegame editing features? :)

stoffe
11-16-2006, 02:27 PM
but I thought the script portions would be relatively the same... they seemed to work rather well in TSL, IMHO.

Apparently Obsidian disagrees. You can now have an arbitrary number of Conditional and action scripts, with an arbitrary number of parameters. Parameters are provided as normal function parameters to main() and StartingConditional() rather than having to be fetched out with specific functions. The toolset DLG editor reads the function signature and creates variable value input fields accordingly.


I haven't looked at the toolset much at all considering I don't have the game installed.
*sarcasm detected* So there's a niche for a FindRefs, I take it. Does the Toolset provide good savegame editing features? :)

No Savegame editing functions at all, AFAIK. If you have aspirations in that department though prepare yourself for loads of work. The savegame format is totally different in NWN, they don't appear to use ERF files for it any more. Not too surprising considering the other file type changes (using ZIP files rather than KEY/BIF being the most directly obvious one).

Behold, a toolset screenshot. View at your own risk. (http://www.algonet.se/~stoffe/nwn2toolgui.gif)

tk102
11-16-2006, 02:36 PM
Thank goodness they dropped the worthless KEY/BIF format. I'm sure they probably improved the .sav/.res savegame scheme also -- that was a pain to navigate. Sounds like a good change also for dialog scripts.

In K-GFF, have you attempted the "Use TLK file for stringrefs (Ctrl-T)" function with any success? (I'd expect a failure here.)

Behold, a toolset screenshotIs that the OnEnter script for the first module or is that the SimFortress heartbeat? :)


edit: also -- does the arbitrary number of parameters mean that scripts can be overloaded?

Darth333
11-16-2006, 02:38 PM
Behold, a toolset screenshot. View at your own risk. (http://www.algonet.se/~stoffe/nwn2toolgui.gif)
From what I've been reading in that thread, it looks like this script loop forever :lol:

I don't have the game yet due to lack of time to play it. Maybe I'll wait for the next patch.

stoffe
11-16-2006, 03:23 PM
Thank goodness they dropped the worthless KEY/BIF format. I'm sure they probably improved the .sav/.res savegame scheme also -- that was a pain to navigate. Sounds like a good change also for dialog scripts.

Indeed, I don't mourn the loss of the KEY/BIF format. Much easier to extract things directly with a normal file compression utility when you need them.

Seems the savegame formats keep the SAV data for the separate areas in zlib-compressed files, where the SAV files within use a newer version of the ERF format (I assume, it has a MOD V1.1 header at least). Aside from that it has a playerinfo.ifo file, a "currentmodule" text file, an XML file containing all set global variables and a number of Roster files for all potential party member NPCs.



In K-GFF, have you attempted the "Use TLK file for stringrefs (Ctrl-T)" function with any success? (I'd expect a failure here.)

Seems to work at a quick glance, provided you select the NWN2 dialog.tlk file when asked. At least it pulls item descriptions from the TLK file and shows them properly.



edit: also -- does the arbitrary number of parameters mean that scripts can be overloaded?

Doubt it since you can only have one main or StartingConditional function in a script file as far as I know, and each script file needs a unique ResRef as usual. You can probably have default values set to parameters as usual with main() and StartingConditional() as well though (haven't tested).

* * *

Have nobody figured out how to switch the armor/clothes designer preview window over to a female model? It's very time consuming to get things right when you can't see what you are doing in the editor directly.

Tupac Amaru
11-16-2006, 05:04 PM
Have nobody figured out how to switch the armor/clothes designer preview window over to a female model? It's very time consuming to get things right when you can't see what you are doing in the editor directly.Yes, apparantly, it's not possible. There's a plugin, though, that's supposed to allow this:
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Nwn2plugins.Detail&id=12
Unfortunately, the part you were looking for doesn't seem to work yet.

(including changing focus for input fields while you type, move the cursor to where it thinks it should be rather than where you clickOh, yes, the filter of the script assistant is just lovely in that regard. :D

stoffe
11-16-2006, 05:36 PM
Yes, apparantly, it's not possible. There's a plugin, though, that's supposed to allow this:
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Nwn2plugins.Detail&id=12
Unfortunately, the part you were looking for doesn't seem to work yet.

Oh, yes, the filter of the script assistant is just lovely in that regard. :D

Not possible? I should have guessed. I wonder how Obsidian did when they designed the game which contains a fair deal of female and non-human NPCs? Since the PoS Toolset doesn't seem to update the armor appearance to reflect your changes on creatures wearing the armor placed in an area either unless you quit the whole toolset and restart it this is extremely annoying. I'm losing faith in Obsidian "quality" at an accelerating pace the more I'm using their products. :roleyess:

Thanks for the tip about the plugin, I'll have a look at it. I'm attempting to recolor a piece of armor but it's fairly difficult to get right when doing it blind since I have no idea what pieces I'm changing the color for on the female variant of it. I'll either have to restart the toolset or check ingame between each change to see what I've done. Perhaps that plugin is useful for preserving what little is left of my sanity.

I get the feeling that Obsidian has used plugin support as an excuse to deliver a non-finished toolset though. I hope my feeling is wrong and they will fix the sad state it is in in upcoming patches. :)

Jae Onasi
11-16-2006, 05:44 PM
Behold, a toolset screenshot. View at your own risk. (http://www.algonet.se/~stoffe/nwn2toolgui.gif)

I need to see an eye doctor after that. :D

SpaceAlex
11-17-2006, 02:24 AM
I need to see an eye doctor after that. :D

It's no wonder the game's so buggy, when the developers are probably spending most of the development time learning how to use their own toolset. :D

Emperor Devon
11-17-2006, 03:07 AM
I need to see an eye doctor after that. :D

Why not take an eye exam first? :D (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k254/EmperorDevon/eyexam.jpg?t=1163746924)

Ugh! What's Obsidian done to my beloved toolset? I'd been looking forward to many happy hours with it. :(

It looks like this game has more than a few flaws. Other than graphics, have there been any significant improvements? :)

Astrotoy7
11-17-2006, 08:15 AM
lolz...I never had much time to tinker with toolsets and the like...its an achievement enough to get through the standard campaign...

anyway, I FINALLY got it yesterday(release date here). The cutscene style dialogue was a bit different, there was something very classical RPG about the way it was presented in NWN1. I also think that the GUI arent as aesthetically beautiful as NWN1, and not entirely congruent with the Forgotten Realms artistic style...but these arent huge concerns. I love the game so far......The TRUE RPG is back.....

Start>>Control Panel>>Add/Remove Programs>>Oblivion>>Remove

mtfbwya

stoffe
11-17-2006, 08:44 AM
It looks like this game has more than a few flaws. Other than graphics, have there been any significant improvements?

Significant improvements to the scripting language (which concerns many aspects of the game), improvements to how dialogs and cutscenes are handled, D&D 3.5 rules update, more customizable GUI (from a modder's perspective), more detailed and less boxy area design, support for fully player controlled party member NPCs, less "compartmentalized" game structure with global variables and a quest journal that are campaign-wide and not just module-wide, allowing for less linear campaigns to still be split up in multiple modules. Just to mention a few things off the top of my head that aren't tied to graphics. I'm sure there is more. :)

I just hope they can get the Toolset into a usable shape in a future patch so those new improvements can be put to use. :)

stoffe
11-17-2006, 11:14 AM
Do anyone know how you finish the last of Khelgar's trial quests, "Trial of the Maimed"? I've completed the other two without problems but I don't know what you are supposed to do to finish that one. It says you need to talk to Khelgar about it, but I can't see any new dialog options when doing so aside from those I've already used earlier.

I'd guess I'm roughly halfway through act 2 by now and about to go explore some old ruins that the new cleric suggested, but I'd rather tie up any loose ends before doing so since I assume that's part of the main quest.

(Anyone special you should bring to the ruins besides the cleric and Shandra? Do anyone have any sub-quests or interactions tied to that place? Hard to pick who to bring along now that the number of party members have increased. :))

tk102
11-17-2006, 11:32 AM
I just hope they can get the Toolset into a usable shape in a future patch so those new improvements can be put to use. :)The fact that it is extensible is reassuring given the modding fan base for NWN. Plus there's always (gasp!) other tools that could be used beyond what's in the toolset. Though this it is .NET toolset, I know of ways to encode Perl into that framework for writing plugins... I'm sure Borland has similar solutions. ;)


@Space Alex: :lol:

ChAiNz.2da
11-17-2006, 12:23 PM
Do anyone know how you finish the last of Khelgar's trial quests, "Trial of the Maimed"? I've completed the other two without problems but I don't know what you are supposed to do to finish that one. It says you need to talk to Khelgar about it, but I can't see any new dialog options when doing so aside from those I've already used earlier.
Can't remember which one that is, but I think there might be a new 'scout' location on your map. Double-check.. it should be to the SE of your map.

IF you're already past that point (completed) then make a trip to the Temple in the Market of Neverwinter and tell the priest of Khelgar's accomplishments. I think the journal just doesn't 'complete' itself. (must have completed the map area noted above first ;) )

(Anyone special you should bring to the ruins besides the cleric and Shandra? Do anyone have any sub-quests or interactions tied to that place? Hard to pick who to bring along now that the number of party members have increased. :))
Not sure about NPC sidequests, I took Neeshka who didn't say much except 'ouch'.. hehehe. Take a spare "tank" if you can, or a spellcaster that can dispel/cause lots of spite-thine-enemy spells... it's not a walk in the park as I thought it might be (I thought it would be some sort of half-cutscene half-"ceremony fluff" area).

Since you already have 2 clerics and a fighter, might want a spellcaster or a bard. Buffs/Dispels will come in handy and the range attacks will be helpful (in some parts), but things can get cramped real quick either by architecture or the onrush of enemies.

There's plenty of opportunities for resting, so don't worry about micro-managing spells for "long-haul" approaches. It's quite long compared to other areas of the game so stock up on "perishables" (healing stuff, ammo, buff potions) if you don't like transitioning areas alot soley for restocking purposes ;)

Pavlos
11-17-2006, 12:48 PM
lolz...I never had much time to tinker with toolsets and the like...its an achievement enough to get through the standard campaign...

anyway, I FINALLY got it yesterday(release date here). The cutscene style dialogue was a bit different, there was something very classical RPG about the way it was presented in NWN1. I also think that the GUI arent as aesthetically beautiful as NWN1, and not entirely congruent with the Forgotten Realms artistic style...but these arent huge concerns. I love the game so far......The TRUE RPG is back.....

Start>>Control Panel>>Add/Remove Programs>>Oblivion>>Remove

mtfbwya
Quoted for truth. On the whole, I am very pleased with NWN2 - marred as it is by some peculiar bugs and gameplay design.

I just (last night, after some heavy essay writing) got CR Keep under my control and I'm inclined to agree with stoffe on the point of "Sim Fortress". Similarly to the influence system in KotOR II, it is an interesting (certainly original) idea to have this keep under my control but it seems to be lacking in implementation. I don't want to have to cross huge distances, or go through area transitions to speak to my party members; I don't want to have to worry about how much to tax merchants and whether, or not I should hire more Greycloaks. I want to be the hero, I want to save the world with my companions... not sit back on a throne and observe. But I'm sure it will all be ok in the end.

The story, up to this point, seems to be solid (as fun to play as any good book is to read) and well written. Although there are some cases where you think, What?! I have to go into *yet* another cave... looking for more people?, there are also many parts where you are jumping for joy at the excitement of it all. (I found the trial scene highly enjoyable).

In short: There is something strangely “Baldur’s Gate-ish” about this game and I’m not entirely sure why…

stoffe
11-17-2006, 01:42 PM
Can't remember which one that is, but I think there might be a new 'scout' location on your map. Double-check.. it should be to the SE of your map.


I've been to the "Dwarven scouts" area where I've found the first level of the Ironfist clanhold, containing the Gauntlets/Bracers of Ironfist or whatever they were called. Khelgar hinted that there was more to the place, but it was caved in so we couldn't do anything. I assumed that was just a hook for a later quest or something, due to what his clan-kin said when we returned to them and showed the gauntlets/bracers.

The quest journal says something about talking to Khelgar to make him realize how he's wronged his clan brothers or something like that, but I can't find any dialog options to talk to him about that. :confused: I have estimately around 15 influence with Khelgar so far, is more needed to unlock such dialog options?

I assume this quest leads to Khelgar being multiclassed to a Monk when it's completed, but since the party is at level 15 already we seem to be running out of levels to multiclass if the quest doesn't move on soon. So far none of the party member NPCs have gained any classes other than what they started with.


Not sure about NPC sidequests, I took Neeshka who didn't say much except 'ouch'.. hehehe. Take a spare "tank" if you can, or a spellcaster that can dispel/cause lots of spite-thine-enemy spells... it's not a walk in the park as I thought it might be (I thought it would be some sort of half-cutscene half-"ceremony fluff" area).

Since you already have 2 clerics and a fighter, might want a spellcaster or a bard. Buffs/Dispels will come in handy and the range attacks will be helpful (in some parts), but things can get cramped real quick either by architecture or the onrush of enemies.


I ended up bringing Neeshka (since she's the only one who can deal with traps and locks), the Githzerai cleric (since she gave me the "quest"), Shandra (since I have no choice :)) and Elanee(sp?) since it was an old elven ruin and she's the only elf in the gang aside from Sand and I figured she might have something interesting to say.

Sand and Qara haven't seen much use in the group so far since I have a hard time to squeeze them into the party. One more party member slot would have been very useful for an arcane caster, in particular since I only have two slots to allocate since Neeshka always has to come along to deal with traps and locks. Luckily clerics and druids have a bunch of powerful offensive and buffing spells as well, even though they are not as diverse as those of arcane casters. I give Neeshka all arcane scrolls and wands I find so at least she can help out with some arcane magic even if it's nowhere as powerful as spells cast by a wizard or sorceress.

Aren't bards mostly useless? Jack of all trades, master of none? Besides, the gnome is annoying so he hasn't seen much use yet either. :)

In the keep at the ruins... Will the Ogre mage (whose name escapes me) give you a quest if you tell him the purpose of the statues? I figured it was a bad idea to divulge that information to an evil-aligned ogre mage, and he got angry and attacked when I wouldn't tell him their purpose.

Is the "Master's Sceptre" and "Master's Shield" you find in the keep used for anything in particular? I guessed their purpose was to bypass the ward on the door protecting the statue, but they don't seem to do anything. I get hit by the trap even if I have them equipped when using the door. The sarcophagus on the first floor mentioned something about them, but didn't give any clues as to their use. Is there any other way to open the door except make the ward expire by brute force?


Though this it is .NET toolset, I know of ways to encode Perl into that framework for writing plugins... I'm sure Borland has similar solutions.

I know C# .NET and have Visual Studio 2005 so that part shouldn't be a problem in my case. The problem is rather that I have no idea how to write plugins for the toolset, and no motivation to learn until I get into modding the game rather than playing it. :) Maybe I'll have a look at it in the future, unless the toolset has discouraged me from modding NWN2 entirely by then. :)

Lantzen
11-17-2006, 02:02 PM
Think you maybe run in a bug if Khelgar quest dont work, when you have helped the Dwarfs, you need to find the gauntels, convince him to like Neeskha and hava him to offer to fight for you after the trial, but that he probaly do no mather what. But if you get him to monk, dont worry about you dont have many levels left, you retrain him from level 1 as a monk, so he will become a level 15 monk when you done the quest

And for the other questions
Yes the ogre mage will give you a quest, he will tell you to kill the orc leader, then he help you in to the statue and give you some magic items.

The "Master" thing i also wonderde what to do with, they count as quest items, so you can't sell them i think. I thogh it was something to do with the grave, but i couldent seem a way to open it

To bad you dont have Qara with you so much, she one of my favourite characthers, and she is very powerful at later levels IMO

ChAiNz.2da
11-17-2006, 02:02 PM
The quest journal says something about talking to Khelgar to make him realize how he's wronged his clan brothers or something like that, but I can't find any dialog options to talk to him about that. :confused: I have estimately around 15 influence with Khelgar so far, is more needed to unlock such dialog options?
Ahh.. ok then, yeah go ahead and go to the temple.. talk to the priest and the dialogue will happen through it's You-Priest-Khelgar dialogue.

As for multi-classing.. If you choose to have Khelgar go Monk.. he'll start at level "0" and you'll re-level him however you see fit. As far as monks go, if you decide to go that route (I did and happy for it).. stay soley a monk. You'll lose out on too much monk abilities if you nerf it by multi-classing.

Sand and Qara haven't seen much use in the group so far since I have a hard time to squeeze them into the party
Drat, I was about to edit my post to suggest Sand or Qara as their one-liners are kinda funny when you start taking the door hits.. :lol:
For the most however,

yeah.. you gotta take the hits or align with the Ogre as far as I know.

I thought having the Master's Shield, Sword & Sceptre would help.. but it didn't seem to do anything :confused:

Aren't bards mostly useless? Jack of all trades, master of none? Besides, the gnome is annoying so he hasn't seen much use yet either.
Blasphemy! hehehe... true enough about his annoyance (as your other party members will agree ;) ) but his Bard songs are a really sweet benefit when it comes down to the wire, plus he's an identifying machine. Save your spell/skill slots for other useful stuff...

Astrotoy7
11-18-2006, 02:43 AM
heheh... where has my day gone !! I <3 NWN2. I knew I was truly back in RPG mode when I got a "you must gather your party" message, after I tried to leave an area :D Lovely :) !!

So much fun to be a drow. Any 'Realms and Drow fan should be quite pleased :)

*casts globe of darkness before wasting foes with dual scimiatars*

now I just need a summoned panther !

*gets back to it*

One little thing I would could be modded....the size of the GUIs, overlay map etc. I operate at that weird 1360 x 768 so im stuck between low and hi rez schemes methinks. No biggie though ;)

mtfbwya

stoffe
11-18-2006, 03:26 PM
Ahh.. ok then, yeah go ahead and go to the temple.. talk to the priest and the dialogue will happen through it's You-Priest-Khelgar dialogue.


That seems to have done the trick, I got him converted to a Monk with no problem when talking to the priest. Odd that the journal says that I should talk to Khelgar, not the priest, like the other two trials of that quest did. :)


As for multi-classing.. If you choose to have Khelgar go Monk.. he'll start at level "0" and you'll re-level him however you see fit. As far as monks go, if you decide to go that route (I did and happy for it).. stay soley a monk.


Those priests of Tyr seems to be pretty good at brainwashing, Khelgar forgot all the feats and skills he once knew when he turned a monk, converted to another deity and another alignment. Still an odd choice of class to convert to for him, since the primary ability of a monk (Wisdom) seems to be his dump-stat. Even though I put all the ability points into wisdom when he re-leveled as a monk it didn't get any higher than 14. Seems to cripple him a fair bit as a monk since most variable monk abilities use wisdom to determine their potency. :)



Drat, I was about to edit my post to suggest Sand or Qara as their one-liners are kinda funny when you start taking the door hits.. :lol:


Speaking of Qara... will you encounter that shadow animus curse (or whatever technobabble they called it) of her, that Sydney Natale created on request from the scheming noble, more than once in act 2? I've encountered it as a travel encounter once so far, but from what the Gith priestess said it sounded like it would be back.. I guess act 2 will end when you are done at Ammon Jerro's Haven, which is where I'm headed next, so I'd rather not botch up her quest by missing out any parts of it before advancing with the main plot.



I thought having the Master's Shield, Sword & Sceptre would help.. but it didn't seem to do anything :confused:


I figured it out eventually. Seems like you must kill both the Ogre Mage and the Bugbear chief if you want to go that route (I had peaceful dealing with the bugbears at first so I missed the sword). With all those three in your possession the door opens. At least it did in my case when I tested. :)

Still, seems like you don't gain anything from solving the puzzle in that way, while you have an opportunity to gain influence with the Gith priestess if you do things the hard way and wear out the ward by brute force.


Turned out it was a waste to bring Elanee to the ruins (not counting the fights of course which she's pretty good at), since she didn't have any special dialog there. Perhaps I should have brought Sand instead.

Speaking of which... ...is there anyone in particular I should bring along in the party to Ammon Jerro's Haven that have special dialog, interjections or sub-quests there? I'm headed there as soon as we've pawned off some loot and restocked supplies.



Blasphemy! hehehe... true enough about his annoyance (as your other party members will agree ;) ) but his Bard songs are a really sweet benefit when it comes down to the wire, plus he's an identifying machine. Save your spell/skill slots for other useful stuff...

Oh. Didn't feel all that necessary when my main char is a Cleric though. Plenty of buffing spells (bless, prayer, battletide etc for the group, divine favor, divine power and holy might for self) already, plus she has Lore as a class skill so it's as high as it can get for her anyway. When party slots are as scarce as they are you have to pick carefully who to bring.

The fact that he's so tiny and have an annoying voice doesn't help his case in that selection, feels like you might accidentally step on him and crush him if you use Divine Might (which makes your character giant-sized for the duration). :) Besides, he seems to trust Bishop, who's as untrustworthy as they come, so maybe those two will backstab me eventually because I don't bring them along anywhere. :)

* * *

Speaking of the mandatory gender confusion in RPGs, this is probably a good candidate to claim the prize so far:
Gender Confusion Deluxe (http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5924/genderconfusionuy8.jpg)

Jae Onasi
11-18-2006, 05:41 PM
Speaking of the mandatory gender confusion in RPGs, this is probably a good candidate to claim the prize so far:
Gender Confusion Deluxe (http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5924/genderconfusionuy8.jpg)

:lol:

My favorite part so far is when all the wizard students come to attack Qara Whew, all those spells flying everywhere, flashing all over the screen--talk about a visual treat. :)

Lantzen
11-18-2006, 05:45 PM
About the Qara thing
I encountered the shadow 2 times at random events, but in chapter 3 you will have a mission that you most bring Qara on, and there you will defeat the shadow

About the party members
I think it's good if you bring Shandra with you :xp: Hmm, dont think my party had any special, just some dialougs but nothing that gave influence or special missions. I had Qara,Bishop and the Gith with me

stoffe
11-18-2006, 06:52 PM
My favorite part so far is when all the wizard students come to attack Qara Whew, all those spells flying everywhere, flashing all over the screen--talk about a visual treat. :)

Some spell effects are rather flashy, in particular higher level spells. Fortunately those students never cast anything more dangerous than Melf's Acid Arrow by the time I did those encounters. :) They were even kind enough to group up in a tight cluster so Qara could fireball them all at once quite effectively.


About the Qara thing
I encountered the shadow 2 times at random events, but in chapter 3 you will have a mission that you most bring Qara on, and there you will defeat the shadow


You don't need to encounter it more than once for the quest to proceed once you get to act 3 then I hope? Feels a little silly to go touring across the world map just hoping to get ambushed before moving on to AJs Haven.

Are there any other party member quests that have to be finished (or started) in Act 2? I've finished Neeshka's Leldon-quests and Khelgar's Monk quest and started on Grobnar's Blade Golem quest and Qara's shade animus curse quest. Have I missed anything?



About the party members
I think it's good if you bring Shandra with you :xp: Hmm, dont think my party had any special, just some dialougs but nothing that gave influence or special missions. I had Qara,Bishop and the Gith with me


Not like you have much choice with Shandra; she's stuck to you like a magnet since she joined up. Wouldn't be surprised if she even sleeps in the same room as the PC. (Do Aasimar need sleep?) A bit peculiar since she still blames you for the fact that the lizardmen set fire to her barn and the githyanki torched the rest of her farm. It's not like the gith wouldn't have come for her even if the party hadn't been there. AJ would still be her sword-stealing grandfather even if the player had never left Harbor Watch. :roleyess:


I take it you play as an evil player if you have Bishop around? :) He's a complete ******* so I suppose the PC would need to be an equally complete ******* to stand being in his company with without getting the urge to cast Destruction on him every time he opens his mouth. Even though the RPG-notion that evil-aligned characters automatically get along with other evil-aligned characters is rather unrealistic. :) Too bad you can't kill your own party members in NWN2 in some imaginative way that doesn't result in Evil alignment shifts. :)


Does the Githzerai have anything interesting to say while in the Haven? I get the impression she's rather integrally tied to the main plot, but she's much weaker as a cleric than my main character and tends to get hurt most of all party members for some odd unexplainable reason. (Perhaps she's related to Minsc?) If she doesn't have any dialog there I'd rather put someone else in that party slot instead.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-18-2006, 07:19 PM
Woo. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=522998&forum=109)

Astrotoy7
11-18-2006, 11:53 PM
Woo. (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=522998&forum=109)

Nice functional bug fixes for the 1.03 update :) Kudos to Obsidian for such prompt responses to community feedback. Ya gotta' love em :)

mtfbwya

Tysyacha
11-19-2006, 12:26 AM
I am perhaps the worst player to EVER play this game.

Why? The two characters I've actually stuck with have ended up
getting wholesale-slaughtered at that thug warehouse. It's great
that NWN2 has so many character creation choices, but it's driving
me absolutely crazy! *wails* Please help! Here are my 2 failures:

Tysy 1: Level 7 Aasimar Monk, put way too many points into Hide
and Move Silently (which don't work too well in this game. Deleted.)

Tysy 2: Level 5 Aasimar Bard, Level 2 Dragon Disciple (cool, but she still
got friggin' shredded at that warehouse. Deleted--she was very hard to play.

I'm thinking of making my third character a Human Barbarian or Sorcerer/
Dragon Disciple. Which one will get me past that friggin' warehouse alive?

Jae Onasi
11-19-2006, 01:23 AM
Consider a Paladin if you want to stay with an Aasimar, but I'm betting you can get the others to work well, too.

Astrotoy7
11-19-2006, 02:17 AM
I am perhaps the worst player to EVER play this game.

Why? The two characters I've actually stuck with have ended up
getting wholesale-slaughtered at that thug warehouse. It's great
that NWN2 has so many character creation choices, but it's driving
me absolutely crazy! *wails* Please help! Here are my 2 failures:

Tysy 1: Level 7 Aasimar Monk, put way too many points into Hide
and Move Silently (which don't work too well in this game. Deleted.)

Tysy 2: Level 5 Aasimar Bard, Level 2 Dragon Disciple (cool, but she still
got friggin' shredded at that warehouse. Deleted--she was very hard to play.

I'm thinking of making my third character a Human Barbarian or Sorcerer/
Dragon Disciple. Which one will get me past that friggin' warehouse alive?

What no fighters, rangers or paladins ? C'mon! You need a 1337 melee killer in there !!! If you are newer to the game, the 'recommended' button is there for a reason. Still, others may have some insightful tips about what youve chosen, I usually like to have them as support staff, but not the main deal :)

Plus its always worth beefing up your strength and healing abilities first, and have someone around that can pick locks, disable traps and identify items. Do that basic stuff and the fun will ensue.

mtfbwya

Lantzen
11-19-2006, 06:08 AM
You know that you can rest in there, right? And what party do you have with you, Qara is very powerful with her fireballs, and Khelgar is good at mele. Im playing a chatoic good halfelf (but i have heard that halfelf is underpowerd, i havent notice anything, but you could try human instead), first 2 levels as fighter to get some extra feats, and the rest as a barbarian, i havent encounter any big problem with this characteh yet, and im half way throgh chapter 2.

@Stoffe
No, i dont think there is anymore partymembers quests, thats the ones i had done to, and i dont think you need to run around the world map to finish Qaras quest

About the Heaven, i dont think the Gith have any special conversations there, so you can bring someone else with you, and yes, my first characther was an evil Drow wizard, so i had Bishop with me to most of the places

stoffe
11-19-2006, 10:14 AM
I am perhaps the worst player to EVER play this game.
Why? The two characters I've actually stuck with have ended up
getting wholesale-slaughtered at that thug warehouse.


Some general tips about that place:

Keep your party members on a tight leash so they won't rush off and trigger additional encounters. Fight one group at a time and then heal and recuperate in between. Retreat if necessary to make some far-off enemy follow you instead of having your melee grunts rush to them and trigger additional enemies to spawn. Try to minimize the number of sneak attacks they can land on you as good as you can. I.e. if a thug is attacking one of your characters, make sure your character is attacking him back. Don't let yourself be surrounded or turn your back against someone unless necessary. And try to take out the enemy casters first, those lightning bolts can hurt a great deal unless you have electricity resistance gear on your group.

Use the broadcast commands (right-holdclick on the ground to make the context menu show up and then use the "Broadcast command" to give an order to all your party members. If you click on one of them you just give that party member an order) to make your group follow you if you retreat, or make them stand their ground while you scout ahead in stealth mode.

You can set up ambushes this way. Control Neeshka and tell everyone else to stand their ground, scout ahead in stealth mode to spot the next group of enemies and then set traps between you and them. Then have her use a cloudkill/stinking cloud wand at your end of the trail of traps and then get their attention and run back to the rest of the party. This way they will be weakened by the time they reach you. Remember that Neeshka can use scrolls and wands, so I tend to give her all those and let Qara and Sand do "real" casting instead. :)

As for who you bring, I'd recommend Qara for her high-damage AoE spells, Neeshka to deal with the large amounts of traps (and setting her own in place for the bad-guys) and either Khelgar as a meat shield or Elanee if she has learned Stoneskin yet (otherwise don't bring her as she's too fragile without it).

Oh and make sure your gang has the best gear you have found or can buy before entering the place. Deekin in the merchant quarter sells some pretty good gear, as does the gnome/halfling (can't tell which) merchant on the docks found behind Sand's shop just by the water's edge (easy to overlook). The gnome woman at the opposite end of the Docks district also sells some decent defensive gear.

If all else fails, remember the difficulty slider on the Options screen. Set it to Easy if you haven't already. :) (In any case I wouldn't recommend setting it to hardcore D&D or higher since there are too many bugs in the game with that to make it enjoyable.)


Tysy 1: Level 7 Aasimar Monk, put way too many points into Hide
and Move Silently (which don't work too well in this game. Deleted.)


Hide/Sneak seems to either be bugged or poorly implemented as you are detected way too often no matter how much skill points you dump into those skills (invisibility potions are much more reliable for sneaking around). Not only that, the way some of the missions that scream "sneak here!" are implemented (mostly Neeshka's quests) will totally screw you over if you try to sneak through them. Some NPCs will auto-start conversation with you when you get near even if they can't see you, which conveniently forces you out of sneak mode. Not only that, if you sneak around with Neeshka the game automatically jumps your main character to the place where your sneaking character is when dialog is started and initiates conversation with them instead. With predictable results as all the guards you've just carefully sneaked past now can see you. :roleyess: I have to wonder if the Obsidian designers left their brain in their other set of pants the day they designed those quests.

Unless things have changed drastically from NWN1 I think monks hand to hand fighting is fairly weak early on before you have gained a lot of levels, so you might want to consider using a pair of enchanted Kama's that early instead (which should still allow you to use Flurry of Blows) and only start going unarmed when you've gotten some more Strength, Wisdom, Feats and Levels.

Also know that the Aasimar race will weaken your character unless you know exactly what you are doing. While some minor elemental resistance and Darkvision is handy, and the extra Wis/Cha is very useful for Paladins/Clerics/Druids/Rangers/Monks you buy those at the expense of always being a level lower than everyone else, meaning you have less health, worse attack bonus, poorer saving throws, less Spell resistance, fewer feats and skillpoints and less spells (with potentially worse save DCs) than a character with a non-ECL adjusted race. Clerics and Druids can compensate for this with spells (which are boosted by the extra Wisdom), but other classes might suffer more from it.


I'm thinking of making my third character a Human Barbarian or Sorcerer/
Dragon Disciple. Which one will get me past that friggin' warehouse alive?

I don't think multiclassing one of the caster classes is a good idea in NWN2 due to the level cap. Every Dragon Disciple level you take will make your Sorcerer abilities suffer. If you play as a wizard, sorcerer, cleric or druid it's probably better to stick with that class exclusively. Unless you are looking for a greater challenge of course. :)

I'd also recommend that you try either a Cleric or a Druid if you stick with the Aasimar race and want good survivability, good melee combat skill and a fair amount of spellcasting. Sure, those classes can be a bit more restricting in the role playing aspect, but I think the Druid and Cleric are the two most powerful classes in the game if you use them properly.

At least my Aasimar cleric is pretty durable and she always seems to be the last (wo)man standing when the rest of the party members go down in particularly difficult fights. If you go with a cleric, put some serious thought behind which domains you pick since the extra spells and feats they grant can have a huge impact. Personally I prefer Air and Water, but there are other potent combinations as well. Just don't be afraid to use your buff spells in fights, a buffed up cleric can own any fighter of similar level in a 1 on 1 fight easily. :)

(And once you can cast Harm, Slay living and Destruction, use it and love it :))


@Stoffe

About the Heaven, i don't think the Gith have any special conversations there, so you can bring someone else with you, and yes, my first character was an evil Drow wizard, so i had Bishop with me to most of the places

Ah, good, then the Githzerai will get some well deserved rest after our latest adventure (which she seemed to play a large role in) and I'll bring along someone a bit more survivable to AJH instead. :) Does Act 2 end when you are finished at AJH, or is that just an impression I've gotten?

I don't think Bishop will ever see much use in my group. His unbearable demeanor and our irreconcilable alignment differences (chaotic evil vs. lawful good) aside he doesn't seem all that powerful in a fight, just inflicting some minor damage from afar with the bow. I suppose I could switch him to melee weapons instead, but since he can only wear light armor it seems a bit risky to have him a close combat fighter.

stoffe
11-20-2006, 09:12 AM
Questions regarding Act 3:

Oh my god they killed Shandra. You bastards.
What an anticlimactic way to end an act, doesn't bode well for the endgame itself if Obsidian enjoys creating drama that way. You have to wonder why they bothered to include Resurrection spells in the game at all when they unexplainably don't work when you really need them.

Is there any way to get the gear Shandra was equipped with back, other than reloading an earlier save and stripping her of all equipment before entering Ammon Jerro's Haven? I had given her some pretty good gear it would be a shame if it was lost.

Were you supposed to find the silver shard Ammon Jerro took from the Neverwinter Nine within the Haven, or does he still hang on to that piece? I didn't find any shard when I explored the Haven, and he hasn't given it to me afterwards.

* * *

Anyway, just got to act 3 and I was wondering: Are there enough time to do all the "Recruit allies" quests or do you have to be picky which ones you do? I've got the Ironfist, Lizardmen, Druids and Wendersnaven(sp?) leads currently.

Does the Keep operate on Main Quest time in this act, or does the main quest operate on Keep time? I assume at 100% it's time to do battle against the KOSH, so it would be good to know if I suddenly would end up there without having gotten anything done if I run in and out of the inn, temple and shops in the Keep courtyard too often. Very annoying way to advance time, that, where I feel I have to stay away from my keep in order to not have to hurry and get things done.

Further about the keep: Does the benefits of keeping your troops at "Elite" level in your recruitment standards compensate for the lesser number of recruits you get this way? Seems you get some advantages for staying Elite (the Captain's Company elite guard so far), but would it be better to lower the standards one notch or will it pay off to stay elite to the end? I figured using elite troops would lower the casualties when it comes to a fight, but if raw numbers are more important then that is perhaps a flawed assumption.

Lantzen
11-20-2006, 11:43 AM
The rescuration spell is for long and hard battles, if some one die you can get him up to the fight again, the end battle took me around 15-20 minutes and there is no rest chance there, a rescuration wand keept me alive there. But i understand what you mean, but think like this, Ammon had so much power in the Heaven, that Shandra was way out the power of resuration spell

Ammon Jerro have all Shandras equipment, at least he had it when i played, dont know about the shards, he maybe have it in his inventory to, but not sure.

I did all the recruits mission, then i continue with the main story until the point you are close to do the battle, after that i started to run out the keep, then in again to get it to 100%, so you can get the keep to 100% before the end battle, then still keep going around and looking for allies

No idea about the soldiers, i had so low recruit standard that i could have, so i would have a large force, but i dont think it mathers so much if the force are large or not, you can try to keep them elite then tell me what happend

stoffe
11-20-2006, 12:13 PM
The rescuration spell is for long and hard battles, if some one die you can get him up to the fight again, the end battle took me around 15-20 minutes and there is no rest chance there, a rescuration wand keept me alive there. But i understand what you mean, but think like this, Ammon had so much power in the Heaven, that Shandra was way out the power of resuration spell


A resurrection rod? Good to know a high-level cleric can be substituted with a stick. :roleyess: Oh well, at least I can use those spell slots for something else then. :)

Considering that someone who's been disintegrated into dust still can be resurrected in the D&D universe that seems a bit forced. Though admittedly I think you need a True Resurrection or Wish spell for that, which I don't think is found in the game. It's a plot device, I'll get over it even if it annoys me every time a game perma-kills someone who have resurrect-equipped allies nearby in a world where resurrection is commonplace. :)




Ammon Jerro have all Shandras equipment, at least he had it when i played, dont know about the shards, he maybe have it in his inventory to, but not sure.



Oh, I suppose he had time to loot his granddaughter's corpse before the party arrived. Haven't had the chance to put him in the party yet since I was pulled off on a solo quest to Castle Never right at the start of the act. Good thing Lord Gnasher is durable since I had to answer a ton of riddles to some old spirit before I could reach the throne room to aid him. That took a while. :) And then after all that the lich wouldn't even let me kill him, he just fled when he got a bit hurt... No XP for me.


I did all the recruits mission, then i continue with the main story until the point you are close to do the battle, after that i started to run out the keep, then in again to get it to 100%, so you can get the keep to 100% before the end battle, then still keep going around and looking for allies


Hmm. So does the fight at the keep (which I assume is what you do all the building and recruiting to prepare for) happen when the Keep time counter reaches 100%, or does the 100% just mean you can't do anything more to improve your situation at the keep before the fight comes, which comes as part of the main quest?



No idea about the soldiers, i had so low recruit standard that i could have, so i would have a large force, but i dont think it mathers so much if the force are large or not, you can try to keep them elite then tell me what happend


Roughly how many troops had you managed to get at the end? It's hard to tell how well I'm doing if I don't know how what I have compares to what I could have had. :)

ChAiNz.2da
11-20-2006, 12:49 PM
Hmm. So does the fight at the keep (which I assume is what you do all the building and recruiting to prepare for) happen when the Keep time counter reaches 100%, or does the 100% just mean you can't do anything more to improve your situation at the keep before the fight comes, which comes as part of the main quest?
As far as I can tell, the 100% just lets you know that your castle upgrading time is "100% over".. you can still obtain allies however.. but no more constructing and what-not. :)

To be honest though, there's not really a whole lot more to do (battle-ready wise) once you reach the mark. Act 3 brings in more recruits, etc..

Roughly how many troops had you managed to get at the end? It's hard to tell how well I'm doing if I don't know how what I have compares to what I could have had. :)
I had pretty low numbers until act 3 hit and then they swarmed in (at least in bigger numbers).. A High Recruit Standard netted me with not many troops but they were worth it (imo ;) )... I can't remember the numbers, but it was pretty low.. maybe 300+?? Low Recruit standards can net you thousands from what I read over at the boards but... seems to me it's just more corpses to clean up :xp:

Achilles
11-21-2006, 04:28 AM
Re: Recruiting

Rumor - You only get three "rounds" of recruiting. If this is true, then I recommend holding off until you meet up with Light of Heaven. Looking at the scripts, she is by far the best for recruiting. Here are the comments that I c/p'ed out of the code:

// Bevil Deployment Options
// 1 - recruiting (+20%)
// 2 - patrol/tithe (Tithe up 10%)
// 3 - patrol/growth (merchant growth +1/time unit)
// 4 - patrol/countryside (peasant growth +2/time unit)
// 5 - special assignments (Increases outcome of special assignments by 1)

// Jalboun Deployment Options
// 1 - recruiting (-10%)
// 2 - patrol (-5 to Patrol Road and Patrol Land)
// 3 - special assignments (Increases outcome of special assignments by 3)
// 4 - Training (training time +1)

// Katriona Deployment Options
// 1 - recruiting (+10%)
// 2 - patrol (+5 to Patrol Road and Patrol Land)
// 3 - special assignments (Increases outcome of special assignments by 1)
// 4 - Training (training time -1, allow training to max)

// Light of Heavens Deployment Options
// 1 - recruiting (+25%)
// 2 - patrol (+10 to Patrol Road and Patrol Land)
// 3 - special assignments (Increases outcome of special assignments by 2)
// 4 - Training (training time -2, allow training to max)

After discovering this, I switched her role and saw my volunteer numbers climb through the roof (I had already maxed out my recruiting efforts).

Substantiated rumor - Keep standards high will not impact the number of recruits that you get. Additionally, maxing the standards along with the training will allow you to unlock a special training status. I hear this one a lot, but I've yet to see it with my own two eyes so.... What truly impacts your numbers is who (if anyone) you have heading up the recruiting. Based on the spoiler above, I guess that means holding off on any recruiting until act III.

Probably BS - The aforementioned "special training status" is accompanied by an elite unit of guards. Yeah right.

Pointers - Based on what I've been able to figure out thus far Be sure to recruit and assign Jalboun before you start any of the special assignments. In act III you get to loot a dragon's hoard and how much you net is determined by who's heading up your special assignments. Funds go directly into your Keep Account, so save your expensive repairs until after you form your alliance with the dwarves (this is when you get the money).

You can pull money out of the account, but you can only do so 5k at a time and you get about 200k so take my advice unless you like clicking the same dialog choices repeatedly for about 20 minutes.

Recruit and assign Light of Heavens before you begin recruiting and keep your standards high.

Err...remember that you can use your own money to fund repairs. I'm an idiot and I shouldn't be admitting this, but I thought the 70k that you get from Nasher was a balance that you had to maintain (in other words, I thought I couldn't go past 0, so I spent a lot of time waiting for funds to renew before making additional repairs).

On a whim I tried paying for an expensive repair with a low balance and discovered that the additional funds needed came out of my pocket (rather than getting an "insufficient funds" error). Since I had about 250k at the time, I finished up repairs quickly and made a note for my next playthough. 2nd time around I repaired the keep too quickly and ended up having to do the 20 minute repetitive dialog option thing I mentioned earlier *hangs head in shame*.

And FWIW, I'm currently on my 3rd playthough. Great game. Love the story. My only two complaints are buggy party AI during critical battles and the horrible, horrible voice actor they found to narrate the finale. Good lord!

stoffe
11-21-2006, 09:19 AM
Does anyone know if wizards can learn new spells through any other means than at levelup (like learning from scrolls in BG2)? Sand has an absolutely atrocious spell selection of lower-level spells and there seems to be nothing to do about it since you pick him up relatively late. Qara is so much more useful than him in battle it's almost silly. A wizard's strength compared to a sorcerer is meant to be greater diversity, but Sand doesn't know many more spells than Qara does, and she knows better spells and can cast them more often and is more flexible when using metamagic.

* * *

SPOILER ALERT! This rest of this post is more or less all spoilers pertaining to the keep! Consider this whole post a big, white box.


Rumor - You only get three "rounds" of recruiting. If this is true, then I recommend holding off until you meet up with LoH


Hmm, haven't seen anything that seems to indicate this. As far as I can see recruits and volunteers trickle in each time the keep time advances. Though you probably get more per time unit if you have the proper sergeant assigned to recruiting.

Nice summary of the sergeant strengths and weaknesses. Where did you find that?


After discovering this, I switched her role and saw my volunteer numbers climb through the roof (I had already maxed out my recruiting efforts).


Seems like the volunteers go up pretty quickly regardless of who you have assigned once you start getting your land security up decently. The number of volunteers you can have seems to be tied to the number of peasants you have (multiplied by 3), with the losses your units have suffered factored in. The recruit sergeant only seems to affect the number of recruits you get, not volunteers, unless I'm missing something. :) If your diplomacy is high enough you can stay at Elite standards and still get volunteers (which require you to get 30 peasants to form a village and then smooth-talking the major when he offers volunteers).

If I'm reading the scripts correctly you can get at most 600 troops.... 250 volunteers, 250 recruits, your 50 starting troops and the 50 the mercs add if you let them join.



Substantiated rumor - Keep standards high will not impact the number of recruits that you get.


Hmm, if I read the scripts correctly the max number you can recruit depends on the Eliteness level of your recruitment standards, like:

(250 - Recruited) * Standard

Where Recruited is the number of troops already recruited and Standard is a multiplier depending on your recruitment standards:
Elite: 0.2
Good: 0.5
Average: 0.75
Low: 0.9
Anyone: 1.0


This would only apply to recruits though, not volunteers. If it actually works this way in-game is another matter though. :) Your lieutenant does say after a while that they've recruited all they can unless you lower your standards, but I don't remember exactly at what value that is.


Additionally, maxing the standards along with the training will allow you to unlock a special training status. I hear this one a lot, but I've yet to see it with my own two eyes so....
(snip)
Probably BS - The aforementioned "special training status" is accompanied by an elite unit of guards.


I can confirm this. If you have Katriona and stick with the Elite standards you will get the choice of forming the "Captain's Company" elite first-in-last-out squad which will serve as an example to the others. This will boost the morale of the troops and allow your training level to display as "Best of the Best" on the keep report. There may be other factors involved as well (how trained your troops are and what weapons/armor they have I guess), but it happened. :)



What truly impacts your numbers is who (if anyone) you have heading up the recruiting. Based on the spoiler above, I guess that means holding off on any recruiting until act III.


Not necessarily unless you skip the keep entirely in act 2. Since you can flip Katriona around as you see fit you can start her out with recruiting along with the troops and then switch her over to whatever the troops are currently doing until you pick up the other sergeants. I've noticed that it may be a good idea to switch her over to Special Ops whenever you get a special mission since there are two types of victories to many of the missions, "Total success" which is only possible if one (or several) of the sergeants deal with SpecialOps, and "normal success". The Total Success usually means greater rewards and lower casualties.





Pointers - Based on what I've been able to figure out thus far Be sure to recruit and assign Jalboun before you start any of the special assignments.


Unfortunately you don't seem to have much choice in this unless you stay away from the keep until act 3, since you can only get Jalboun in act 3 and the special missions have keep time limits for not only when they appear, but how long they remain available. If you exceed that time limit the mission will just vanish and you won't be able to do it at all.



In act III you get to loot a dragon's hoard and how much you net is determined by who's heading up your special assignments.


Hmm, so that's why the lieutenant said that bandits attacked the greycloaks carrying the treasure and made off with some of it due to low security despite both my land and road security being at "Very high" on the report. Thought it was a bug. :)

Fighting both the Fire Giants and the Red Dragon at the same time was one serious battle. I just barely pulled through. Perhaps not the smartest thing to attack both at once, but at least they fight each other as well. :)



And FWIW, I'm currently on my 3rd playthough. Great game. Love the story. My only two complaints are buggy party AI during critical battles and the horrible, horrible voice actor they found to narrate the finale. Good lord!

Whoa, you've been busy. :) I've played the game a few hours per day since I got it, and I'm still not through my first playthough. I have to agree that the story has been quite nice so far, though there have been some annoyances but overall it's a very good game. I just hope they don't totally cripple its replayability like they did with PS:Torment by putting in a massively anticlimactic ending. That would be a shame.

As for the AI I just enable puppet mode for everyone and give them commands directly. More micromanagement required, but at least they do as I wish (most of the time. Seems like the AI can't keep hands off in some cases even in puppet mode). Then only the summons do stupid things that aren't my fault. :)

Does it matter in the end who you let take up residence in the tower, Startear or the NW9, is that just a matter of what kind of shop you would like to have available? Will Startear help out in the battle if you rebuild the tower for him?

Jae Onasi
11-21-2006, 10:14 AM
And FWIW, I'm currently on my 3rd playthough. Great game. Love the story. My only two complaints are buggy party AI during critical battles and the horrible, horrible voice actor they found to narrate the finale. Good lord!

Good heavens, have you even slept this last week or so? :D I haven't even made it through Act 1 of my first playthrough yet. Of course, now that Jimbo's decided to start his own game, I'm going to have even less computer time. :)
However, I'm enjoying the game very much and know it's going to get a _lot_ of play time in the Jimbo/Jae home. Some of the characters have very sassy lines, which I think is just hilarious at times.

Achilles
11-21-2006, 11:21 AM
Does anyone know if wizards can learn new spells through any other means than at levelup (like learning from scrolls in BG2)?If you right-click on a scroll as Sand, there is a scribe-scroll option. I haven't tried it out yet, but I suspect that it will allow him to learn more spells. If it works, let me know! :)

Nice summary of the sergeant strengths and weaknesses. Where did you find that? Thanks. I pulled it out of the 4 sergeant assignment scripts. The devs were kind enough to include that information in the comments.


Seems like the volunteers go up pretty quickly regardless of who you have assigned once you start getting your land security up decently. The number of volunteers you can have seems to be tied to the number of peasants you have (multiplied by 3), with the losses your units have suffered factored in. The recruit sergeant only seems to affect the number of recruits you get, not volunteers, unless I'm missing something. That very well could be. I do know that I had almost none before the change and they were pouring in after, but there is no concrete evidence of a causal relationship. Good find on the rest!

<snip>
This would only apply to recruits though, not volunteers. If it actually works this way in-game is another matter though. Rumor debunked.:)

I can confirm this. <snip> Rumor no more. Whoot!!!


Unfortunately you don't seem to have much choice in this unless you stay away from the keep until act 3, since you can only get Jalboun in act 3 and the special missions have keep time limits for not only when they appear, but how long they remain available. If you exceed that time limit the mission will just vanish and you won't be able to do it at all. Bummer. Well, at least I know not to try it this time around. This was the playthough that I was going to use to test my theories. :(


Spoilers I know!!! I ended up leaving my party over by the spawn-point and running over solo to initiate the dialog. Dispite every attempt to manipulate the AI (IIRC, even switching to puppet mode), they still come charging over as soon as the "fun" begins. A quick command assigned duing a pause, got them to stop in their tracks but I had to herd them back to safety. Then I moved my spell casters forward and pelted her with ice storm. If the timing works out ok, then she'll kill the Fire Giant King for you :). I discovered just how useful the Energy Immunity spell can be in my last playthrough, so I'm interested in trying that one again with this new knowledge.

I have to agree that the story has been quite nice so far, though there have been some annoyances but overall it's a very good game. I just hope they don't totally cripple its replayability like they did with PS:Torment by putting in a massively anticlimactic ending. That would be a shame.I have to admit that I haven't played PS:T, so I can't help you out there. I know that there are more than a few "the official 'the ending sucked'" threads over in the NWN2 forums, but I thought the end was fairly well done very much consistent with the theme of the story. Apparently the "dark side" ending is different than the "light side" ending, so we'll have to see if I feel the same after seeing that one.

Good heavens, have you even slept this last week or so? I haven't even made it through Act 1 of my first playthrough yet. Of course, now that Jimbo's decided to start his own game, I'm going to have even less computer time.
However, I'm enjoying the game very much and know it's going to get a _lot_ of play time in the Jimbo/Jae home. Some of the characters have very sassy lines, which I think is just hilarious at times. *confused* Sleep??? Oh yeah, I remember that! :)

Wait until you meet Daerred. Dunno why, but he puts me in stitches.

stoffe
11-21-2006, 11:57 AM
If you right-click on a scroll as Sand, there is a scribe-scroll option. I haven't tried it out yet, but I suspect that it will allow him to learn more spells. If it works, let me know! :)


Doh... that worked fine. Thanks, I guess that solution was too obvious for me to figure out myself. Only wish I had learned that earlier... and haven't let Neeshka use up all my fireball scrolls already. :)

(Did it work that way in NWN1 as well? Only played clerics, druids and sorcerers in that game, never wizards.)



I know!!! I ended up leaving my party over by the spawn-point and running over solo to initiate the dialog. Dispite every attempt to manipulate the AI (IIRC, even switching to puppet mode), they still come charging over as soon as the "fun" begins.


Did you put your party members under "Stand your ground" orders? Seems there is no way to make them not follow without using the voicechat commands (unless I'm overlooking something (else) obvious). At any rate the game seems to suffer from the same irritating tendency as KotOR of sometimes hard-issuing attack commands to party members that completely bypasses the AI scripts which you can't intercept, only react after it has happened.

Not to mention cutscenes conveniently clustering your party together in indefensible locations when they start, or jumping the main character to any place where dialog is initiated, even if it's halfway across the level and the dialog was triggered by a sneaking/invisible rogue clicking on a placeable or a door in a room full of hostile enemies. :roleyess:



If the timing works out ok, then she'll kill the Fire Giant King for you :). I discovered just how useful the Energy Immunity spell can be in my last playthrough, so I'm interested in trying that one again with this new knowledge.


I guess that's the disadvantage of being an XP addict in a game system like D&D. Unlike Morrowind/Oblivion you can't do the smart thing and just stand back and watch the fireworks and then go in and mop up any survivors. I have to actually try to kill the giants before the Dragon kills them not to miss out on any XP. At least fire giants are immune to a Red Dragon's breath. :) Had to dodge the dragon and first kill all the giants before taking her out. Required a number of resurrects and mass heals to pull off, but we prevailed in the end.




I have to admit that I haven't played PS:T, so I can't help you out there. I know that there are more than a few "the official 'the ending sucked'" threads over in the NWN2 forums, but I thought the end was fairly well done very much consistent with the theme of the story.


PS:Torment's ending described without involving the plot: You get separated from your party members when entering the final area, all your party members are killed one by one by the end boss in cutscenes where you can do nothing but watch, and no matter how you deal with the final confrontation and no matter what you've done in the game so far (Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil) your main character goes to Hell (or the Abyss, hard to tell) in a fiery blaze to become a grunt in the Blood War. Needless to say that kind of end ruined the whole game experience and I've only been able to bring myself to play PS:Torment twice (with several years in between) despite it otherwise being one of the best CRPGs I've ever played. Way to slap it in the player's face that nothing you've done in the game really mattered in the end.

I like happy endings. I violently dislike unhappy anticlimactic endings. :)



Apparently the "dark side" ending is different than the "light side" ending, so we'll have to see if I feel the same after seeing that one.


Don't think I'll ever see it since I can't bring myself to play some evil bastard. Much more rewarding to play as a good gal who gets to make a difference for the better. :) But if it's in line with the evil endings in other games I can imagine it's a "shortsighted power hungry" ending. :) (Encouraging the kind of character that deserves a LaCroix ending...)

Achilles
11-21-2006, 01:16 PM
(Did it work that way in NWN1 as well? Only played clerics, druids and sorcerers in that game, never wizards.)I gave up on NWN1 part way through chapter 1. Something tells me that I should go back and give it another chance, but for whatever reason, I just didn't feel engaged even after 10+ hours of gameplay. :(

Did you put your party members under "Stand your ground" orders? Seems there is no way to make them not follow without using the voicechat commands (unless I'm overlooking something (else) obvious). At any rate the game seems to suffer from the same irritating tendency as KotOR of sometimes hard-issuing attack commands to party members that completely bypasses the AI scripts which you can't intercept, only react after it has happened. Yeah, I did. I'll look into voicechat next time. Thanks for the tip.

Not to mention cutscenes conveniently clustering your party together in indefensible locations when they start, or jumping the main character to any place where dialog is initiated, even if it's halfway across the level and the dialog was triggered by a sneaking/invisible rogue clicking on a placeable or a door in a room full of hostile enemies. :roleyess: Heh. On that note, don't quicksave in space between lengthy dialogs and boss-fights. Later in the game you have to go up against a big-time baddie after one of the longest dialogs in the game. Of course, I got wiped out, but lo-and-behold, I had my trusty quicksave. Unfortunately, reloading the quicksave allowed the baddie to be fully spawned and he would manage to kill off three party members before the game even finished reloading (not a good feeling to hear party members dying while you're still looking at the loading screen :(). Luckily I had a hard save from about 20 minutes earlier, so that worked out ok.

Btw, do not trust autosave or quicksave, if you haven't figured that out already. Autosave apparently has some sort of once-per-day limitation (exaggerating, but only slightly). Also, there have been a few times that I've quicksaved before shutting down, only to come back later to find that my only quicksave file was from much earlier. If it only happened once, I might think that I only thought I saved before shutting down, but it's happened a few times. Moral of the story: use hard saves.



I guess that's the disadvantage of being an XP addict in a game system like D&D. Unlike Morrowind/Oblivion you can't do the smart thing and just stand back and watch the fireworks and then go in and mop up any survivors. I have to actually try to kill the giants before the Dragon kills them not to miss out on any XP. At least fire giants are immune to a Red Dragon's breath. :) Had to dodge the dragon and first kill all the giants before taking her out. Required a number of resurrects and mass heals to pull off, but we prevailed in the end.
Oh, I hear you and I wish I had the patience for that, but I gave up after the 6th or 7th try of doing it that way. FWIW If you side with the giants, they will turn on you after you slay the dragon. I suspect that she will also turn on you if you side with her and kill the giants. Just an FYI, that you don't have to choose the "attack both" to kill both. I hope that helps.


PS:Torment's ending described without involving the plot <snip>
I'm afraid that anything I say here could potentially taint the experience for you. I think I know how you'll vote, but I can't wait to hear your impression of the end once you get there.


Don't think I'll ever see it since I can't bring myself to play some evil bastard. Much more rewarding to play as a good gal who gets to make a difference for the better. :) But if it's in line with the evil endings in other games I can imagine it's a "shortsighted power hungry" ending. :)I'm the same way. I cringe everytime I make an evil choice, but I'm one of those people that can't leave stones unturned. After playing chaotic or lawful good the first two games (Druid and Paladin/Divine Champion/NW9 respectively), I feel terrible about killing people that I've already helped twice before.

On a funny side note: There are a few dialog bugs that are only apparent when playing evil. for instance, last night I threatened to feed a couple of children to the wolves. Elanee gave me the same "aw, you'll make such a great daddy" speech that she did when I saved them in my "good" games. Great.

EDIT: Whoops...missed one. Sorry


Does it matter in the end who you let take up residence in the tower, Startear or the NW9, is that just a matter of what kind of shop you would like to have available? Will Startear help out in the battle if you rebuild the tower for him? There are a couple of class-specific side quests that you can get in the game. Paladins will get a quest from the church if you forego the monastery. Similarly, I imagine that monks will get a quest if you forego the church. As for the tower, you will get the special shop if you build it for The Nine, and I've heard that you will get a mage shop and the chance at wizard quest (class specific) if you make it a wizard tower. The Nine didn't do much to help (even though I did max out my NW9 PrC), so I doubt that the wizards will help either.

Spoiler re: the NW9 PrC:
Level cap is 20 and there is a 5 level cap for the NW9 PrC. In other words, if you want to get all the benefits, you need to multi-class as you hit level 16. The bad news is that the PrC isn't available until you are at about level 17 or 18. So, if you plan on taking the NW9 PrC and you want to max it out, you'll need to "sit" on a couple of levels until you progress far enough in the game to unlock it. Hope that helps.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-21-2006, 07:19 PM
@stoffe-
Ammon Jerro has the shard in his inventory, just add him to your party, switch to him, pull up his inventory screen and give it to the PC for yet another bonus (I think his allows for an immunity to something).

stoffe
11-21-2006, 08:34 PM
I gave up on NWN1 part way through chapter 1. Something tells me that I should go back and give it another chance, but for whatever reason, I just didn't feel engaged even after 10+ hours of gameplay. :(

I'd only bother with the Hordes of the Underdark expansion, that's the only one of the NWN1 + Expansions campaigns that was any interesting in my opinion.



Unfortunately, reloading the quicksave allowed the baddie to be fully spawned and he would manage to kill off three party members before the game even finished reloading (not a good feeling to hear party members dying while you're still looking at the loading screen :().


Nasty side-effect of the multiplayer-architecture of NWN. Creating the game world first and then spawning in the player while loading clientside stuff. If you have a slow computer it gives the game world almost half a minute of free reign to do what they want to your helpless characters. :)


Btw, do not trust autosave or quicksave, if you haven't figured that out already. Autosave apparently has some sort of once-per-day limitation (exaggerating, but only slightly). Also, there have been a few times that I've quicksaved before shutting down, only to come back later to find that my only quicksave file was from much earlier.


Seems like it's only autosaving when you use the world map. Maybe some quest-related autosaves as well, but it certainly doesn't seem to happen at regular intervals.

Speaking of bugs, are there any problems with Keep special missions carrying over from Act 2 to 3? I had ordered the fifth special mission (Mere undead patrols) to be carried out just before changing acts, so it didn't complete before the act ended. Now I think I'm roughly halfways through act 3 and I have not heard a word about the outcome of that mission, nor have I received any new missions (I think there are supposed to be at least 2 more). I'm starting to suspect I've run into a bug. :(


Further is there a way to finish the "Path of the Holy" quest you get from the priest in the temple in the Keep courtyard, where you're supposed to go to the mountains to retrieve some great weapon and vanquish some great evil. I suspect the quest refers to the Red Dragon in the Ironfist quest area (since no new area appears on the world map), but I've already killed the dragon and looted the hoard before during the Ironfist quest. Does this mean the quest is now impossible to complete?




I'm afraid that anything I say here could potentially taint the experience for you. I think I know how you'll vote, but I can't wait to hear your impression of the end once you get there.


Uh oh, that doesn't sound promising. Oh well I suppose I'll see it first hand soon enough. Act 3 seems to be much shorter than act 2, but perhaps I've gotten a false impression of much much remains to do. :)


I'm the same way. I cringe everytime I make an evil choice, but I'm one of those people that can't leave stones unturned. After playing chaotic or lawful good the first two games (Druid and Paladin/Divine Champion/NW9 respectively), I feel terrible about killing people that I've already helped twice before.


If I ever should play evil (which I won't) it would probably be the intelligent scheming evil type instead. The type who has a plan and don't mind walking over corpses to see it come to fruition, but won't run around insulting, mugging or killing people for no reason, drawing unnecessary attention to themselves and making enemies needlessly. Someone who can appear nice and charming but aren't afraid to backstab should it suit their purposes. Unfortunately CRPGs don't tend to support that PC villain type, catering more to the two-bit thug/bully variant who goes around being mean to people for no reason even if it obviously will come back to haunt them later.



for instance, last night I threatened to feed a couple of children to the wolves. Elanee gave me the same "aw, you'll make such a great daddy" speech that she did when I saved them in my "good" games. Great.


Well, she's a druid, perhaps she just sees feeding wolves as a part of the natural cycle? :)


Spoiler re: the NW9 PrC:
Level cap is 20 and there is a 5 level cap for the NW9 PrC. In other words, if you want to get all the benefits, you need to multi-class as you hit level 16. The bad news is that the PrC isn't available until you are at about level 17 or 18.

I suppose that's one advantage of playing as an Aasimar, being one level behind everyone else (except for Neeshka and the Gith). I think I was roughly level 15 after the attack on Castle Never, which I assume is when the PRC becomes available. Doesn't matter much in this playthrough though: Since I play as a cleric I stay well away from multiclassing since it will only weaken you. :)

Besides my PC is just a NW9 member (the title, not the class) by convenience. Pretty-boy Nevalle is an ******* and Lord Gnasher is moderately incompetent, not the kind of people she'd normally identify with. :)


@stoffe-
Ammon Jerro has the shard in his inventory, just add him to your party, switch to him, pull up his inventory screen and give it to the PC for yet another bonus (I think his allows for an immunity to something).

I found it after I got back from Castle Never and brought along AJ to check him out. Found another shard on the lich you needed a True Name (the Deus Ex Machina of D&D/NWN it appears :roleyess:) to kill. Are there any more shards remaining to find after that, or do you get to take the Sword of Gith for a spin before the game is already over? :) I hope it's a vorpal blade like the one in BG2 to compensate for not having focused on Martial weapons in feat picks yet and thus likely being rather poor at dealing damage with it compared to my trusty bastard sword.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-21-2006, 08:43 PM
I found it after I got back from Castle Never and brought along AJ to check him out. Found another shard on the lich you needed a True Name (the Deus Ex Machina of D&D/NWN it appears :roleyess:) to kill. Are there any more shards remaining to find after that, or do you get to take the Sword of Gith for a spin before the game is already over? :) I hope it's a vorpal blade like the one in BG2 to compensate for not having to focused on Martial weapons in feat picks yet and thus likely being rather poor at dealing damage with it compared to my trusty bastard sword.
You'll get plenty of time to swing the sword of Gith around ;)
It's easily the coolest weapon in the game, and it's special attacks deal a ton of damage, especially the "Blade Storm" attack, with the "Shard Barrier" one coming in a close second. It can deal plenty of damage normally too though. Also, by lich are you referring to the Shadow Reavers? The things with the flaming skulls for heads are Shadow Reavers.

Achilles
11-21-2006, 10:13 PM
I'd only bother with the Hordes of the Underdark expansion, that's the only one of the NWN1 + Expansions campaigns that was any interesting in my opinion. I'll keep that in mind. Maybe I'll just find a wiki or something that will fill me in on the OC backstory. If you have recommended resources, I'd love to hear them.


Speaking of bugs, are there any problems with Keep special missions carrying over from Act 2 to 3? I had ordered the fifth special mission (Mere undead patrols) to be carried out just before changing acts, so it didn't complete before the act ended. Now I think I'm roughly halfways through act 3 and I have not heard a word about the outcome of that mission, nor have I received any new missions (I think there are supposed to be at least 2 more). I'm starting to suspect I've run into a bug. :( Not that I'm aware of. Interestingly, I'm pretty sure that I usually get that mission in chapter three. And unless my game is missing content, the Mere mission is the last one.



Further is there a way to finish the "Path of the Holy" quest you get from the priest in the temple in the Keep courtyard, where you're supposed to go to the mountains to retrieve some great weapon and vanquish some great evil. I suspect the quest refers to the Red Dragon in the Ironfist quest area (since no new area appears on the world map), but I've already killed the dragon and looted the hoard before during the Ironfist quest. Does this mean the quest is now impossible to complete?

Before you enter the dragon's lair, you should trigger a cutscene during which Khelgar points out "the beacon". Don't make the same idiot mistake that I did and spend 30 minutes running around that module trying to find "the beacon" - it's in another module (specifically, the dragon's lair). Once you approach the hoard, another cutscene should triggers, spawning a previously non-existent chest with the special weapon in it. You should be able to recognize it because it's dead center in front of the pile of gold and it has a rather stereotypical holy light illuminating it from above.

If you didn't see any of this, I would venture that you need to trigger a global with the dwarves before it's available. *shrugs*


Uh oh, that doesn't sound promising. Oh well I suppose I'll see it first hand soon enough. Act 3 seems to be much shorter than act 2, but perhaps I've gotten a false impression of much much remains to do. :) I think it would be fair to say that it is shorter. Still a lot to do, story-wise, but I think you'll find that there's a lot less traveling.



If I ever should play evil (which I won't) it would probably be the intelligent scheming evil type instead. The type who has a plan and don't mind walking over corpses to see it come to fruition, but won't run around insulting, mugging or killing people for no reason, drawing unnecessary attention to themselves and making enemies needlessly. Someone who can appear nice and charming but aren't afraid to backstab should it suit their purposes. Unfortunately CRPGs don't tend to support that PC villain type, catering more to the two-bit thug/bully variant who goes around being mean to people for no reason even if it obviously will come back to haunt them later. You may be pleasantly surprised in this game, if only slightly. "Evil" seems to be much more about ambivalence, or at least it appears to be the case, thus far.



Well, she's a druid, perhaps she just sees feeding wolves as a part of the natural cycle? :) Well done! Have a cookie. :)



I suppose that's one advantage of playing as an Aasimar, being one level behind everyone else (except for Neeshka and the Gith). I think I was roughly level 15 after the attack on Castle Never, which I assume is when the PRC becomes available. Doesn't matter much in this playthrough though: Since I play as a cleric I stay well away from multiclassing since it will only weaken you. :)

Minor Spoiler
In the last area, the devs added a script that adds random attacks to your rest attempts. If you complete each quest and are patient with repeated rest-induced attacks in the final area, you should be able to get your Aasimar to level 20 (although the Gith will never get past 19 - she's 2 behind).



I found it after I got back from Castle Never and brought along AJ to check him out. Found another shard on the lich you needed a True Name (the Deus Ex Machina of D&D/NWN it appears :roleyess:) to kill. Are there any more shards remaining to find after that, or do you get to take the Sword of Gith for a spin before the game is already over? :) I hope it's a vorpal blade like the one in BG2 to compensate for not having focused on Martial weapons in feat picks yet and thus likely being rather poor at dealing damage with it compared to my trusty bastard sword. *gasp* you get to meet Nolaloth now! *happy dance*

After you meet him, you get to forge the blade. Take mages with you...mages that know Energy Immunity. Either that or take tanks that run fast and are good at not dying while retreating :D

Re: the sword itself: it's baseitem type is "Universal sword" which means you don't get any penalties, but it also means any weapon focus feats you picked earlier are now wasted. The sword itself has some pretty cool uses that come close to bordering on overpowered.

stoffe
11-22-2006, 09:17 AM
I'll keep that in mind. Maybe I'll just find a wiki or something that will fill me in on the OC backstory. If you have recommended resources, I'd love to hear them.

Don't know any story resources since I played all three campaigns already. Wikipedia probably have something, they tend to have entries about everything. Otherwise I can give you the bullet points of the NWN1 and Shadows of Undrentide storylines. I tend to remember pointless things like game storylines fairly well for some reason. :)


Not that I'm aware of. Interestingly, I'm pretty sure that I usually get that mission in chapter three. And unless my game is missing content, the Mere mission is the last one.


Yes, I found that out when checking the scripts and keep dialog more closely. It appears that Special mission 6 and 7 are bugged, a missing "break;" in in a switch-statement in a conditional check script prevents mission 6 (ambush Shadow Priests) from ever being given out, and improper dialog script parameters in Kana's dialog prevents both mission 6 and mission 7 (locate shadow reaver task force) from being activated properly (it tries to start mission 5 instead again with the result in my case of it being set from previous success to failure for some reason). The bad part though is that the penalties for not having completed mission 6 and 7 within the specified time interval remains, resulting in massive penalties to Land and Road Security every time update. Good work, Obsidian. :roleyess:



Re: Path of the Holy
Before you enter the dragon's lair, you should trigger a cutscene during which Khelgar points out "the beacon". Don't make the same idiot mistake that I did and spend 30 minutes running around that module trying to find "the beacon" - it's in another module (specifically, the dragon's lair). Once you approach the hoard, another cutscene should triggers, spawning a previously non-existent chest with the special weapon in it. You should be able to recognize it because it's dead center in front of the pile of gold and it has a rather stereotypical holy light illuminating it from above.



Since I had already cleared out the area of fire giants and killed the dragon before even getting this quest, while attempting to gain an alliance with the Ironfist dwarves, none of this happened. I revisited the area afterwards and checked out the dragon hoard, but got no extra cutscenes or dialogs and no new chests had spawned that weren't there before when we looted the hoard after the red dragon was killed.

Anyway, I went back to the priest again and the mission registered as a success and completed even if I didn't acquire any special weapon. (Unless it was unremarkable enough that I just looted it along with the rest of the dragon's treasure during my first visit to the place without thinking there was anything special about it.)




You may be pleasantly surprised in this game, if only slightly. "Evil" seems to be much more about ambivalence, or at least it appears to be the case, thus far.

From what I've seen the nice and charismatic "making friends" dialog options seem to hand out Good alignment shifts like candy, so it might be hard for such an evil player to stay evil for any length of time. The game's alignment system seems to run almost entirely on action rather than intent behind the action.



Re: Minor Spoiler about last area
In the last area, the devs added a script that adds random attacks to your rest attempts. If you complete each quest and are patient with repeated rest-induced attacks in the final area, you should be able to get your Aasimar to level 20 (although the Gith will never get past 19 - she's 2 behind).



Aha, some XP farming opportunity there then. :) Fortunately you get level 9 spells at level 17 already so you have at least some time to play with your more potent toys before the game is over. Though I suppose the KOSH is immune to every status effect in the book as is customary for bosses so any spells that don't deal raw damage are totally useless in the final battle.




*gasp* you get to meet Nolaloth now! *happy dance*
After you meet him, you get to forge the blade. Take mages with you...mages that know Energy Immunity. Either that or take tanks that run fast and are good at not dying while retreating :D



I just finished beating the two black dragons and shattering the crystal dragon heart, so I suppose the song portal is where I'm headed next since I can't find any more side quests (I've done the Recruit Ironfist, Recruit Lizardmen, Wendersnaven and Circle of the Mere as well as Sydney Natale's ambush so far). Is Harbor Watch Redux an area that continually deals negative damage to your party while you are there, or why the need for Energy Immunity? If it's a wizard spell, any idea where you can get a scroll that grants it?

Achilles
11-22-2006, 11:20 AM
Don't know any story resources since I played all three campaigns already. Wikipedia probably have something, they tend to have entries about everything. Otherwise I can give you the bullet points of the NWN1 and Shadows of Undrentide storylines. I tend to remember pointless things like game storylines fairly well for some reason. :)That's kind of you to offer. Sounds like a lot of work though and I'd hate to put you through that when I can find something inferior but readily available elsewhere.


Yes, I found that out when checking the scripts and keep dialog more closely. It appears that Special mission 6 and 7 are bugged, a missing "break;" in in a switch-statement in a conditional check script prevents mission 6 (ambush Shadow Priests) from ever being given out, and improper dialog script parameters in Kana's dialog prevents both mission 6 and mission 7 (locate shadow reaver task force) from being activated properly (it tries to start mission 5 instead again with the result in my case of it being set from previous success to failure for some reason). The bad part though is that the penalties for not having completed mission 6 and 7 within the specified time interval remains, resulting in massive penalties to Land and Road Security every time update. Good work, Obsidian. :roleyess:Damn it! That's going to drive me nuts now. I don't suppose you've already scripted a fix??? :D



Since I had already cleared out the area of fire giants and killed the dragon before even getting this quest, while attempting to gain an alliance with the Ironfist dwarves, none of this happened. I revisited the area afterwards and checked out the dragon hoard, but got no extra cutscenes or dialogs and no new chests had spawned that weren't there before when we looted the hoard after the red dragon was killed.

Anyway, I went back to the priest again and the mission registered as a success and completed even if I didn't acquire any special weapon. (Unless it was unremarkable enough that I just looted it along with the rest of the dragon's treasure during my first visit to the place without thinking there was anything special about it.)
No, you would have noticed it. They made a point to make sure that you didn't miss it :D

I find it hilarious that you were able to prematurely close the quest, knowing what a hard time most people have closing it during normal gameplay (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=512887&forum=110).

From what I've seen the nice and charismatic "making friends" dialog options seem to hand out Good alignment shifts like candy, so it might be hard for such an evil player to stay evil for any length of time. The game's alignment system seems to run almost entirely on action rather than intent behind the action.Yeah, after the KotORs, VtM:B, etc, I guess I'm a little underwhelmed by the "evil" dialog choices. I do get to be pretty snarky, but like you said, my words don't seem to get me far. I'm also noticing that during key dialogs, I'm being pushed along down a certain path without much opportunity for roleplay. While not having "thug-4-life" forced upon me is refreshing, I do have to say that I think I enjoyed playing "good" more.



Aha, some XP farming opportunity there then. :) Fortunately you get level 9 spells at level 17 already so you have at least some time to play with your more potent toys before the game is over. Though I suppose the KOSH is immune to every status effect in the book as is customary for bosses so any spells that don't deal raw damage are totally useless in the final battle.
Well, there are final battles and then there are final battles. Without spoiling too much, let me just say you should go prepared for anything and everything. I feel they did a good job of breaking the mold in many regards (but then again, you've been around the RPG-block a lot more than I have, so maybe you will have seen this all before :)).



I just finished beating the two black dragons and shattering the crystal dragon heart, so I suppose the song portal is where I'm headed next since I can't find any more side quests (I've done the Recruit Ironfist, Recruit Lizardmen, Wendersnaven and Circle of the Mere as well as Sydney Natale's ambush so far). Is Harbor Watch Redux an area that continually deals negative damage to your party while you are there, or why the need for Energy Immunity? If it's a wizard spell, any idea where you can get a scroll that grants it? My comments before were re: the black dragon fight. The first time through, I took a diverse mix with me (since I didn't know what to expect). Needless to say after half a dozen attempts to beat them legitimately, I ended up making a bee-line for the world transition point. I figured I would come back later after I'd leveled-up somemore and try again (dragons weren't there when I came back, but I got to shatter the heart).

2nd time through, I know more about Energy Immunity spells and was able to take my time tearing them apart (I had Elanee cast acid immunity on my party and the Gith cast fire immunity). :D

Yep, song portal it is. Yes, the area does deal continuous negative energy, but I was recommeding it for the dragon fight. :) I don't know if Energy Immunity with help you in West Harbor. Haven't tried using it there. Your cleric(s) should have it. Also, Elanee is likely to have it as well. IIRC, it's a level 6 or 7 spell.

If the Gith gets knocked out in battle (which she most likely will), you can run far enough away from where she drops and convince the Reaver to follow you, she will wake up and you can then use the True Name scroll. Just an FYI.

TheOssusKeeper
11-22-2006, 03:08 PM
Hello peeps, long time no talky...

Been checking out this new NWN2 game for awhile now, played it through once... working on the second go around...

Was wondering if anyone here has made any fixes or sp mods, or started working on any sp mods for this game yet?

I was just wondering because the playability of this game seems to be running out really quick for me... I'm not sure why. Maybe because it doesn't have as many side quests in it as the first NWN game does. Maybe because it forces you to one conclusion at the end of the game (no good guy/bad guy ending), I dunno'...

anywho, all in all the game is pretty cool, it's got a couple of surprises in it...

Jae Onasi
11-22-2006, 09:01 PM
*confused* Sleep??? Oh yeah, I remember that! :)
*Achilles has heard the Siren Call of NWN2, and not only has he failed his Will save, he can't even find the die to roll....* :D

Wait until you meet Daerred. Dunno why, but he puts me in stitches.
If he's half as ornery as Jolee was, I'll enjoy the character. :)

Achilles
11-22-2006, 09:59 PM
*Achilles has heard the Siren Call of NWN2, and not only has he failed his Will save, he can't even find the die to roll....* :DThat may be one of the funniest things I've ever read :D

If he's half as ornery as Jolee was, I'll enjoy the character. :)Not so much with the ornery. To quote Dane Cook, he's a "silly, silly bitch". Almost foppish, as it were.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-23-2006, 12:14 AM
*Achilles has heard the Siren Call of NWN2, and not only has he failed his Will save, he can't even find the die to roll....* :D
Heh, that just reminded me of this (http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5165/painkeepud3.png).

@Achilles-
Daerred is the adventurer who shows up at Crossroad Keep periodically, right?

Achilles
11-23-2006, 01:42 AM
Heh, that just reminded me of this (http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5165/painkeepud3.png).Oooo...that is good!

@Achilles-
Daerred is the adventurer who shows up at Crossroad Keep periodically, right?Yep that's him :D

Jae Onasi
11-23-2006, 09:40 AM
That may be one of the funniest things I've ever read :D :giggle1:

Not so much with the ornery. To quote Dane Cook, he's a "silly, silly bitch". Almost foppish, as it were.
You know, I have a good friend who'd fit that description admirably. Should be fun when I get to that point. He even has a full Henry VIII costume--no joke. :D

stoffe
11-23-2006, 10:06 AM
That's kind of you to offer. Sounds like a lot of work though and I'd hate to put you through that when I can find something inferior but readily available elsewhere.

All right, but if you can't find a decent summary of the story lines elsewhere just ask.



Damn it! That's [keep specops 6 and 7] going to drive me nuts now. I don't suppose you've already scripted a fix???


The IsSpecialMissionAvailable() function inside 21_inc_crossroad.nss (in the 2100_Crossroad_Keep_A2.mod module) needs to be modified, add a break; at the end of case 6 and 7 like the other cases have. Then you have to recompile 21_c_missions.nss with this changed include file.

Further you'll have to edit 21_kana.DLG where the missions are accepted (Under "How may I be of service Captain?" ---> "What special mission is available?") so that the parameter to the action script 21_a_accept_mis is set to 6 (mission 6) and 7 (mission 7), and the parameter to the action script 21_a_deploy are 106 (mission 6) and 107 (mission 7) respectively. They were both left at 5 and 105, which are the values for mission 5).

That should make the missions trigger and be started properly. Don't know if there are other bugs involved with them since the Atari/Obsidian QA teams hardly can have tested those missions. :)



No, you would have noticed it. They made a point to make sure that you didn't miss it


Oh well, that's too bad. But I suppose it doesn't matter if it was a holy avenger since I didn't play as a paladin and were just about to get the Silver Sword anyway. :)



I find it hilarious that you were able to prematurely close the quest, knowing what a hard time most people have closing it during normal gameplay (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=512887&forum=110).


Heh, odd quest if you can only finish it if you can't actually do it. :) At least I got some XP for my troubles when chatting with the priest again.



Well, there are final battles and then there are final battles. Without spoiling too much, let me just say you should go prepared for anything and everything. I feel they did a good job of breaking the mold in many regards.


Long rant about the ending, don't read unless you've finished the game:

Finally got to the end now. The "destroy the bridges" mission was yet another textbook example of "Let's auto-cluster the player party and allies tightly in an indefensible spot in a cutscene so we can easily surround them, never mind that the player had already positioned their archers in the rear protected by warriors and just sent one invisible scout ahead to see what was going on". Even trying to think ahead and use tactics in this game is pointless.

The keep siege was overall OK but a bit annoying since your troops didn't seem particularily keen on following orders and just rushed off on their own getting their asses handed to them by the hordes of undead. Burned through a whole stack of Healing kits just to keep my troops alive. And then comes Black Garius who obviously hasn't read the manual and as such didn't know you only can cast one quickened spell per round and not like, say, two million spells per round. :roleyess: And I'd like to know why Ammon couldn't recite his name to him while the rest of the party was dealing with his little Nightwalker. Seemed like an excellent opportunity, he was standing there the the background, hostile, so why not get down to business? Apparently that was too tactical for the game and we couldn't allow that, could we? Oh well, at least we won a crushing victory anyway it seems, judging by what Kana said afterwards.

The final Illefarn structure (from the "landing pad" and onward) was insanely annoying, like it was designed as a showcase to blatantly demonstrate every AI and Pathfinding problem the game has, with party members running laps around the whole area trying to reach an enemy half a meter in front of you and doing all sorts of stupid things. The battle with the three Shadow Reavers was also more annoying than fun since it seems only the Gith or Ammon can recite the True Names one at a time, not both simultaneously to different Reavers, and it seems like they stopped reading 50% of the time when I switched to control other characters. Sheer AI brilliance. At least you could keep the Reavers more or less permanently on their ass with improved knockdown so it wasn't really a dangerous fight, just really, really drawn out and annoying since it took ages to get the Gith or Ammon to start telling them names correctly.

Oh, and taking away the only party rogue at the start of an area shock-full of traps and locked doors was also a stroke of brilliance by the designers if they wanted to maximize the annoyance potential of the area. :roleyess:

I also have to wonder what the point of all the tons of lootable corpses in that area is, since you can't sell the loot anyway since the game is over before you get out of the place, and most of it was too low-quality to be of any use for a level 20 party. Lots of unlootable containers elsewhere in the game, but seems like everything was lootable in that area.

The lead-up to the final showdown was fairly OK... It seems my character was right in her dislike and distrust of Bishop from the start, and I can't say I was very surprised that Qara turned on us since she always was intoxicated by her own perceived power and never cared much about anything else. Must have been a surprise to her highness that she died during the first combat round getting a Destruction spell in her face. :)

As for the KOSH himself... Didn't seem to have any special tricks or flashy abilities other than the negative energy-dealing aura, just a big, hulking melee grunt, aside from using the statues to produce mini-Viceroys-of-Shadow in large quantities and using the portal to heal itself. Took a while to wear him down though.

And as for the epilogue... have to agree with you it sounded more like some american game programmer than an epic storyteller narrating it. And the ending itself was anticlimax, as I should have suspected. Whee, they won, now let's kill everyone anyway! Great. Good thing Obsidian didn't write the script for Return of the Jedi, otherwise Luke and the Millennium Falcon wouldn't have made it off the Death Star before it exploded and the shield generator complex on Endor's moon would have collapsed on top of Han, Leia and their task force as they blew it up. Cue ending credits. :roleyess:

I really hope Obsidian has an Epic expansion pack planned that continues the story from there, maybe shoving the party into the Plane of Shadow (NWN tradition after all) or dumping them in the Astral Plane rather than crushing them beneath a pile of rubble. I still had that portal tome in my inventory, after all. Now that I have a kickass unique sword I want some more opportunity to use it, and a satisfying final ending this time please. If they intend to leave it like this I'm starting to see a disturbing Obsidian trend from TSL where they make good games but cheat people of a decent ending. :disaprove




Re: Reforging

Yep, song portal it is. Yes, the area does deal continuous negative energy, but I was recommeding it for the dragon fight. I don't know if Energy Immunity with help you in West Harbor. Haven't tried using it there. Your cleric(s) should have it. Also, Elanee is likely to have it as well. IIRC, it's a level 6 or 7 spell.

If the Gith gets knocked out in battle (which she most likely will), you can run far enough away from where she drops and convince the Reaver to follow you, she will wake up and you can then use the True Name scroll.


Energy immunity didn't help against negative energy, but the "Undeath's Enternal Foe" level 9 cleric spell apparently did, so I managed to keep the party from being drained or damaged anyway using that one. :)

I used Ammon Jerro to tell the Reaver names instead, for some reason he seems to be better at surviving and avoiding taking damage than the Gith, bringing along both gives more options should one of them die and I'm out of resurrects. I just kept the Reaver on its ass with Knockdown during the recitation so it wasn't able to aid its Shadow and Elemental allies much. :)




I was just wondering because the playability of this game seems to be running out really quick for me... I'm not sure why. Maybe because it doesn't have as many side quests in it as the first NWN game does. Maybe because it forces you to one conclusion at the end of the game (no good guy/bad guy ending)


As far as I can tell there are two endings, one "good" (well...) and one "idiotic evil" ending that depends on the alignment of your character and the choices you make during the final showdown.

As for replayability it's mostly the ending that ruins it for me. At least until I hear if they plan an expansion pack to continue the story where it left off.

Pavlos
11-23-2006, 03:14 PM
Phew, I haven't checked on this thread in a while and my eyes may well be bleeding - so don't blame me if this has been said before (please don't...).

Obsidian has released a beta version of 1.03 (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=525126&forum=109&sp=0). As always with a beta, back up your saves :).

Many people (but not all) have been reporting improvements in performance ranging from the small to the huge. There are also various fixes. The only issue I have with it is that the blasted thing is taking 3 hours to download on a 4Gb/s connection. Either all of the mirrors have hosted this on a server that only allows minuscule download speeds, or there are thousands clambering to download at the same time (perhaps a mixture of the two?)

stoffe
11-23-2006, 03:28 PM
Phew, I haven't checked on this thread in a while and my eyes may well be bleeding - so don't blame me if this has been said before (please don't...).


Seeing as the release version of the game is already hideously bug-ridden I think I will give Obsidian's beta versions a wide berth. Hopefully the release version won't be far away and will be a bit more optimized in download size. I'll probably have to reinstall the game anyway when it is released since the Toolset apparently doesn't see fit to ask the user before it auto-saves changes to an open campaign module, so the auto-updater will most likely fail. :roleyess:

Good to see that they are working to improve things though. As long as they don't just abandon the game in its half-finished state it's a lot easier to forgive the sorry state of the unpatched game and toolset on the DVD. :)

(And I believe the beta patch has been mentioned earlier :p)

Pavlos
11-23-2006, 03:49 PM
(And I believe the beta patch has been mentioned earlier :p)

*Grumble, gibber, moan*.

Achilles
11-23-2006, 10:01 PM
All right, but if you can't find a decent summary of the story lines elsewhere just ask.I'm afraid that I might have to after all. All I've been able to find is game reviews, no summaries. Wikipedia only covers the first part of chapter one (retrieving the reagents necessary for the Wailing Death cure) :(

If the offer still stands, I'd love to hear your summaries.

<snip> Mission fixes </snip>Thank you!

Long rant about the ending <snip>Yep, saw that coming :D. Obsidian has gone on record to say that they can't go on record re: epic expansions, etc. link (http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=524360&forum=110)

Jae Onasi
11-23-2006, 10:45 PM
I just met up with Grobnar (this is what happens when you have 2 people fight over the computer for play time. Slows you way down. :D).
I about fell out of my chair laughing at the initial meeting. I'm going to have to load a save right before that to hear it again. The spring loaded shield and codpiece.... :rofl:

Achilles
11-24-2006, 01:21 AM
^^^^

Same thing happened to me. Grobnar gets a lot of bashing, but he is by far one of the funniest characters in the game. More hilarity to come! :D

Lantzen
11-24-2006, 09:09 AM
Like i said earlier, the evil ending is way better then the good one IMO

Astrotoy7
11-24-2006, 10:41 AM
^^^^

Same thing happened to me. Grobnar gets a lot of bashing, but he is by far one of the funniest characters in the game. More hilarity to come! :D

oh Lordy NO! I hate anyone who talks too much, even if they are just pixels and soundfiles..... Im trying my best to avoid picking him in any party :p

mtfbwya

stoffe
11-24-2006, 12:52 PM
I'm afraid that I might have to after all. All I've been able to find is game reviews, no summaries. Wikipedia only covers the first part of chapter one (retrieving the reagents necessary for the Wailing Death cure) :(
If the offer still stands, I'd love to hear your summaries.


Warning: This turned out to be rather long, I have a hard time writing short and to the point. :)

This is more or less from memory and it was a while since I last played the game, so there may be some inaccuracies and things I remember incorrectly, but the overall picture should be correct. I will not mention any side quests other than the main plot (there are quite a few sidequests, some that tie into the main plot in one way or another):

Neverwinter Nights - Interlude/Tutorial
A mysterious and deadly plague called the Wailing Death ravages the City of Neverwinter. Normal clerical spells are useless to cure it and desperation and unrest rises in the city as the plague spreads and claims more and more victims. The city has been placed under a quarantine and nobody is allowed to enter or leave it to keep the plague from spreading. Lord Nasher is uncharacteristically absent during the crisis and some speculates he has gotten the plague himself.

In his absence Lady Aribeth de Tylmarande, a paladin of Tyr and Lord Nasher's right hand woman has been tasked with producing the cure and restoring order to the city, aided by Fenthick, (a priest of Tyr and her lover and soon-to-be-husband) and Desther, a recently arrived high-priest of Helm. Aribeth sends out a call for would-be adventurers and heroes to train at the Neverwinter Academy and come to the aid of the city in its hour of need. Many respond to the call, and your PC is one such person who is enlisted at the academy.

Meanwhile the Archmage Khelben in Neverwinter's ally Waterdeep figures out that the plague is arcane in nature and devises a ritual that should be able to cure it and sends it and 4 rare magical creatures to Neverwinter that are needed to complete the ritual: a Cockatrice, an Intellect Devourer, a Dryad and a Yuan-Ti.

Thus begins the game with a "tutorial" section where you undertake the final trials of your training at Neverwinter Academy in your chosen class before graduation. All trials done, you attend your (and your "classmates'" graduation presided over by Lady Aribeth herself. Unsurprisingly the graduation ceremony is cut short when the academy falls under attack from mysterious assailants. You, your classmates and Aribeth manage to defeat the attackers in the ceremony chamber.

Aribeth reveals to you that the Waterdhavian creatures needed for the ritual to produce a cure recently had arrived in the city and were held at the Academy for safekeeping. She sends you to check on the creatures and make sure they are safe. Unfortunately the rest of the academy has been less successful at repelling the attackers, so you have to fight your way there. Fortunately you get your own meat shield along with you, a fellow student training as a fighter (to demonstrate the Henchman system in the game). Long story short you fight your way through the academy to the stables only to find the creatures missing, but Fenthick and Desther present. They inform you the assailants have released the creatures before they could stop them, who have fled into the city from the commotion at the academy.


Neverwinter Nights - Act 1
You survived your trial by fire at the Academy and report to the Hall of Justice (the temple of Tyr) in the city core to be assigned your duties by Lady Aribeth. Since you handled yourself so well at the Academy she tasks you with working with Fenthick and Desther in finding and recovering the four Waterdhavian creatures so the ritual to cure the Wailing Death may proceed. Conveniently the four creatures have been spotted in several districts of the city rather than stick together, so she asks you to investigate the Peninsula district, the Docks district, the Blacklake District and the Beggar's Nest.

Chatting up Fenthick and Desther you soon become aware than Fenthick is young and naive but well-meaning and greatly values the advice and experience of Desther to the point of being his puppet. Desther on the other hand is dismissive, old and grumpy (Master Vrook would be considered charismatic by comparison). Well, Desther is a Helmite and they are supposed to be all-duty, and he obviously thinks a neophyte adventurer like yourself won't be able to make a difference and is just a waste of their time. Not much help from them aside from vague clues. Off to save the city on your own, then.

You can visit the districts in any order you wish since you need to visit them all eventually. Overall the city suffers through a dark time with many people ill with the plague and those not yet infected feeling trapped in the quarantined city and just waiting for their turn to become infected. The City Watch is strained to its limits, law and order had deteriorated in many areas of the city and pyres with the bodies of those killed by the plague burn in the streets. Throughout the city Desther's priests of Helm try to tend to the suffering, granting blessings that are said to hold off the plague at least temporarily.

You can enlist the aid of a "henchman" at a local tavern that will accompany you and help you out on your mission. They are AI controlled NPCs that follow you around and help you out like party members, but you have no direct control over them other than voicechat commands. There are six to choose from, but you can only bring along one at a time:
Sharwyn, human bard
Linu, elven cleric of Sehanine Moonbow
Tommi, halfling rogue
Daelan, half-orc barbarian
Boddyknock, gnome sorcerer
Grimgnaw, dwarven monk

They have their own personal stories and quests you can talk to them about, but that's not really tied to the main plot. Anyway, the main plot:

Peninsula district
Also known as the Prison District. As soon as you arrive you notice the city watch huddling behind barricades at the district entrance. Apparently there has been a prison break and all the prisoners are now roaming about tearing up the district, cracking skulls first and asking questions later. Guess who's going to have to do something about it? Things can never be easy, can they? As you go about laying down the law you eventually learn that the Head Gaoler has gone mad and was the one who released all the prisoners.

After finding and beating the leader of the escaped prisoners you learn from him that the Head Gaoler has been infested by some large parasitic creature that apparently controls him and keeps a contingent of prison guards as thralls via mind control. Our missing Intellect Devourer at work, perhaps? Off to face him and save the poor guards, which of course leads to a battle against the Devourer. Luckily Aribeth didn't need the creature alive, just its brain.


Docks district
Arriving at the docks you once more find Neverwinter's finest huddling behind barricades at the district entrance. The unrest caused by the plague has stretched the City Watch thin and the docks are overrun by thugs, muggers and cutthroats. But the recent dramatic increase in robbery, muggings and crime on the docks has to have another explanation as well. You soon learn that every two-bit thug is trying to accumulate as much wealth as they can in anticipation of an auction to be held by the Bloodsailors pirate band where an apparent cure for the Wailing Death will be sold. Sounds like another of the missing creatures.

So, off to gather a bloodsailor disguise and other things needed to infiltrate the tavern where Vengaul Bloodsail (the pirate captain) will hold the auction. Said and done you find that there's a coup d'etat underway in the pirate gang. Apparently Vengaul Bloodsail is an old rival of Lord Nasher and was attempting to use the captured creature to humiliate him after which he'd return the creature, while his second in command, Callik, is more interested in selling the thing for loads of gold. He is now attempting to wrestle control of the Bloodsailors from his old captain to that end. After chasing the two through the aqueducts beneath the docks you confront them and recover some feathers from the Cockatrice (there are a few ways to handle the confrontation depending on alignment etc). Hopefully those feathers will be enough for Aribeth.

Beggar's Nest
Arriving in the Beggar's Nest, the slums district of Neverwinter, you find... drumroll please... the City Watch huddling behind barricades at the district entrance. Apparently the whole district is overrun by the walking dead, large numbers of zombies and skeletons from the nearby graveyard district roam the streets. After some investigating and talking to various people you learn that someone named Gulnan is behind the undead infestation, and that she's made her lair in the crypts beneath the graveyard. After fighting your way through the crypts you encounter the necromancer Gulnan and discover that she's a Yuan-Ti, one of the missing Waterdhavian creatures. She's not in the mood to come peacefully, so you fight her and bring her heart back to Aribeth.


Blacklake district
Blacklake is the district where the nobility make their home in Neverwinter. With the plague and growing unrest in the rest of the city they have barricaded off the Blacklake district from the rest of the city, hoping to escape its ravages. A nomansland full of plague-crazed people and ruthless thugs have formed between the City Core and Blacklake, and you'll have to fight your way through it. There you are again attacked by a bunch of assassins who appear related to the ones attacking the Academy, and you find a note on one of their bodies indicating they are working with a traitor within the city who seeks to thwart Neverwinter's efforts to cure the plague. You bring the note to Fenthick and Desther, who merely shrug it off as being too vague to do anything about right now, when the plague is their main concern.

Back to Blacklake, since you work for Lady Aribeth they let you in through the blockade. Unlike the rest of the city Blacklake appears peaceful with no traces of the unrest and plague, but the peace can be deceiving. You soon learn of tensions concerning a powerful sorcerer/noble, Meldanen, who is hoarding food at his warehouse away from those who need it, which potentially might be leading to starvation in the quarantined city. Another noblewoman, Formosa, is trying to do something about it. Furthermore one of the City Watch in the Blacklake, has gone missing lately.

After some snooping around you infiltrate Meldanen's estate and there you find not only the missing Watchman (who had apparently seen too much), but also the last of the missing Waterdhavian creatures, the Dryad. Unlike the others the Dryad is still alive and not looking for a fight, but she's held captive by Meldanen who she has charmed. You confront Meldanen to have the dryad released, and can either choose to kill him (which Formosa wanted you to do) and bring the key to the food warehouse to Formosa, or turn tables and kill Formosa for Meldanen in return for the Dryad's release. Either way you can bring the Dryad with you back to Aribeth.


The Ritual and Cure
You've managed to bring back all the parts needed for the Ritual, which is to take place in Lord Nasher's throne room within Castle Never. You are invited by Aribeth to attend and be thanked for your services by Lord Nasher personally. Others present are Lord Nasher, Lady Aribeth, Fenthick, Desther and half a dozen clerics/wizards to perform the ritual.

After you mingle a bit the ritual commences and after some flashy visuals the cure is produced. Easy. Too easy? Of course. Desther snatches the cure and escapes through a teleportation portal while his "helmites" attacks everyone else and a fight breaks out in the throne room. Fenthick, confused by the backstabbing of his advisor, follows him through the portal, Lord Nasher is too sick with the plague to provide any aid and Aribeth is occupied trying to prevent the portal Desther escaped through from closing, so you'll have to defend everyone else and kill Desther's helmites.

All said and done, Lord Nasher orders you to pursue Desther through the portal and recover the cure and bring the traitor to justice. You do so, and end up outside Helm's Hold, a stronghold sacred to the followers of Helm. You soon learn that Desther and his "helmites" attacked and took the fort some time ago and then assumed the roles of followers from Helm and infiltrated Neverwinter under that guise. Outside you run across an odd sending that delivers a cryptic message and gives some hints about what's been going on, but most of it is just foreshadowing of things to come.

Inside the fort you see that Desther has summoned an army of undead to protect himself, as well as a demon to keep the guardian of Helm's Hold supressed. You banish the demon back to the Abyss, allowing the guardian to return and help you dispatch the undead. You encounter Fenthick, whose fragile psyche couldn't handle all the backstabbing going on and has broken down mentally. He reveals to you what little he has learned after following Desther through the portal: That the "Helmites" were actually the ones spreading the wailing death through their "blessings" in the first place, and that Desther is part of some cult, the "Cult of the Eye", responsible for attacking the Academy and all the troubles in Neverwinter as of late. And Fenthick has been his unknowing patsy through it all.

Well, off to confront Desther. He'll hardly give up without a fight, so it looks like you'll have to pry the cure from his cold, dead hands. After a boss fight against him and scores of undead he surrenders and gives you the cure, and you return it along with him and Fenthick back to Neverwinter.


Neverwinter Nights - Narration interlude
Neverwinter is cured of the plague, but it has cost the city dearly with many of its citizens dead and the city thrown into chaos. The rabble demands bloody vengeance upon those responsible and Nasher, like the populist he is, gives in and grants it to them. Desther is burned alive and Fenthick is hanged despite not being in on the plot for gullibly shielding Desther that long. The angry mobs want revenge, and Fenthick was easy to blame.

The search now turns towards those ultimately responsible for the troubles, the cult Desther was a member of, but not the leader of. Lady Aribeth and Lord Nasher's spymaster, Aarin Gend, set up shop in Port Llast from where to lead the investigations. You and your henchmen follow to finish what was started.



Neverwinter Nights - Act 2 Part 1 - Port Llast
Aribeth and Gend now task you with finding clues about the cult. They have some leads pointing to cult activities in the areas surrounding Port Llast: Caves north of the city, along the Southern road towards Neverwinter, in the Neverwinter Wood and in the village of Charwood. Again you are free to investigate those areas in the order you choose, and again there are loads of side-quests I will not mention here. :)


Caves
After an eventful wilderness trek you come upon the caves, only to find them populated by rather aggressive ogres. After exploring the caves you find the Ogre chief under the influence of one of the cultists. After dispatching them you find some evidence indicating that someone named Maugrim is the leader of the cult, and that Luskan might be involved somehow.


Neverwinter Wood
At the outskirts you encounter a circle of druids reporting that something is wrong with the wood. The creatures dwelling within have become violent, attacking everyone, even the duids. They suspect that something is wrong with the Spirit of the Wood, a powerful natural spirit that is tied to Neverwinter Wood but dwells in its own demiplane.

After exploring the wood you piece together the ritual required to enter the Spirit's demiplane through a pool of water in the center of the forrest. You do so, and within the realm of the spirit you discover that the Spirit has been poisoned by one of the cultists who still wanders around within the Spirit's realm, quite mad, forcing you to put him out of his misery.

Fortunately for you that all villains keep a journal of their thoughts, and this cultist was no exception. You find his journal and discover where he had hidden the antidote for the poison he inflicted the spirit with. The spirit doesn't know if you are friend or foe though and lashes out at you as you approach it and you have to fight it into submission before you can make it see reason and cure it. The cultist's journal once again implicated Maugrim and Luskan. More evidence to bring to Aribeth and Gend.


Charwood
As you arrive in the village of Charwood you soon realize that something is wrong. The town is shrouded in an endless night and the villagers seem to wander around confused and dazed, unable to remember much of what has transpired there, like time stands still on that night in the village. You find another cultist there among them who appears to have gone insane. After luring some info out of him he attacks and you kill him, recovering yet another journal implicating Maugrim and Luskan's involvement with the "Cult of the Eye".

As you explore the village you enter the Castle, where run into a guardian placed there by the god Lathander. It tells that Lathander has lifted Charwood outside of the weave of time until someone comes along who can stand in judgement over the two brothers who live in the castle, Quint and Karlat, who are involved in a terrible crime. That would be you. You explore the castle and find that Quint is insane and Karlat has become a lich, and that all the children of Charwood has been slaughtered. Through some poking around you learn that Quint (a bard) had invited all the children of the village to the castle for storytelling, and that Karlat (a wizard) had been deceived by the demon Belial that he must slaughter all the children in order to achieve lichdom. So you bring these testimonies back to the guardian spirit and (in my goody-twoshoes case) decide that both Quint and Karlat are innocent and Belial is guilty, and that you will bring Karlat's phylactery with you from Charwood, thus returning it to it's proper place in time. (Meaning all the people are given their final rest and the village becomes a ruin.)

Southern Road
You learn that some powerful cultist is out hunting for adventurers who are investigating the cult activities, who have already killed several other adventurers working for Aribeth and Gend. You run into him eventually, fight him and kill him, and uncover more evidence of Luskan's involvement with the "Cult of the Eye" and it's apparent leader, Maugrim.



Neverwinter Nights - Act 2 Part 2- Luskan
With all the evidence pointing towards a Luskan involvement with Neverwinter's troubles Aribeth and Gend decides to move the investigation there. They manage to get you and themselves into the city and set up a new base in the Temple of Tyr within Luskan. When you get there Aribeth had disappeared without a trace. She had been moody ever since Fenthick, her lover, was hanged for his involvement with Desther, and now Aarin Gend fears she's done something rash on her own to track down the cult. But the cult has to stay your primary concern.

The evidence indicates that the cult leader, Maugrim, resides within the Hosttower of the Arcane, the home of the Arcane Brotherhood, the true but inofficial rulers of Luskan. Thus you need to gain entry into the Hosttower to look for Maugrim. Easier said than done, the Arcane Brotherhood values their privacy and only those given permission by one of the High Captains of Luskan, the official rulers of the city (but puppets of the Brotherhood) may enter the tower. Gend has forged papers that allows you to pose as an ambassador from one of Luskan's allies, but you'll still need permission from one of the captains to enter the tower.

Worse, intrigue and power struggle seems to grip Luskan. All of the High Captains except Kurth and Baram have either been driven from the city or killed, and there is an all-out civil war between the followers of Kurth and Baram, the latter who appears to have been infected with lychantrophy and has in turned infected his followers, making the whole lot of them wererats. So you'll have to find your way to one of the high captains and "convince" him to give you entry into the Hosttower of the Arcane. Which indidentally requires you to bump off the rival of your chosen captain, Baram or Kurth. Or you can just kill them both and claim the Hosttower warding tokens off their bodies. :)

Anyway, once you get the token in your chosen way you enter the Hosttower of the Arcane under the guise of an ambassador. Inside you discover that Luskan isn't the only ones fond if in-fighting, it appears there is a coup going on in the Hosttower as well. Apparently Maugrim, along with a large number of cult-indoctrinated followers, have taken control and ousted the old leader of the Arcane Brotherhood, the Lich Archmage Arklem, who he now holds imprisoned at the top of the tower.

Exploiting the power struggle and doing a fair deal of fighting you make your way to the top, where you get Arklem to open the way to Maugrim's sanctum to allow you to dispose of him. Arriving at the top of the tower however you encounter Maugrim along with a group of what appears to be lizardmen, whose leader, Morag, is speaking to him through some form of sending. Present is also Lady Aribeth, who out of grief and anger of Fenthick's fate has fallen from Tyr's faith and is just being named a Blackguard in Morag's service.

Before you can intervene Maugrim and Aribeth teleports away and Morag orders her minions to kill you. After you kill them instead you explore Maugrim's lair and find his journal (no villain is complete without a journal outlining their plans). There you learn that the "Cult of the Eye" is looking for four ancient artifacts from the time of the Creator Races called the Words of Power. Apparently Maugrim and his cult seeks to use these artifacts to bring back one of these ancient creator races to life. A number of these ancient beings are apparently held in suspended animation somewhere deep beneath what is now Neverwinter to prevent them from going extinct along with the rest of their race due to the climate changes that wiped out their civilization long ago. And apparently Morag is their rather powerful leader, who was held in stasis along with the rest of her people but have awakened enough to project her power beyond their magical prison to empower Maugrim and his followers, cause the Wailing Death and project sendings of herself to communicate with them.

Lots of revelation to bring back to Gend, which closes Chapter 2.


Neverwinter Nights - Act 3 - The Words of Power
Lord Nasher isn't too keen on having Morag and her people return, so he's ordered you and Aarin Gend to find the Words of Power before the cult does. They have been able to pinpoint a number of likely locations in the lands near Beorunna's Well, a Lords Alliance military camp in preparation for the upcoming war with Luskan with Maugrim and Aribeth at their lead.

Again the order you get the words is up to you. There are plenty of sidequests (many involving helping the war effort against Luskan) and there is more to getting each word, but I'll just give a very general outline otherwise this will turn into a novel. :)

Throughout these quests you'll come into contact with another Creator Race lizard called Haedraline who is trying to aid you in finding the Words. She explains she and others like her have been bound by the Words of Power and kept alive all these years to look after the leadership who was held in stasis as their civilization collapsed. Now she isn't particularly keen on seeing Morag return, and is helping you to prevent it from happening.

First Word
The first Word of Power is held in the hoard of the Ancient Red Dragon Klauth. To get it you'll have to fight your way up the Giant-infested mountains where Klauth makes his lair. Then you'll either have to kill Klauth at the request of the gold dragon Gorgotha and loot the Word off his hoard, or bring Gorgotha's eggs (which she isn't going to surrender without a fight) to Klauth and he'll give you the Word in return.

Second Word
The second Word can be found inside a magical snowglobe (which you acquire through a fairly long quest) that actually is a small demiplane in itself. Within this demiplane a clan of dwarves and a group of Dryads are locked in an eternal struggle, fighting a never ending war for reasons none of them know, and every time one of them is killed they are immediately resurrected back at their respective camp. In the center of the demiplane inside a cave you encounter a White Dragon who with some coaxing you can get to reveal that he has one of the Words of power and has used it to create the snowglobe demiplane. The Dryads and Dwarves were brought there as servant slaves, but allied together in the past, creating a powerful artifact and used it attempting to overthrow their master (the Dragon). They only narrowly failed, so in order to prevent it from happening again he used to Word to twist their minds into irrationally hating each other so they wouldn't band together again.

You manage to get some sense into the blood lusted Dryads and Dwarves and repair the artifact and use it to defeat the White Dragon and then claim his Word of Power, ending the snowglobe world and freeing the dwarves and dryads.

Third Word
The Third Word is found inside a vault in ancient Creator Race Ruins. To reach them however you must use a time crystal to travel 10 000 years into the past when the Creator Race was still alive and kicking, during the time when the now ruined complex was being created. There you can learn how to access the vault and weaken its guardians (and tangle with the Creator Race lizards who consider other races to be little more than slaves). Then you return to the present with your time crystal, access the vault and claim the Word of Power.

Fourth Word
Haedraline informs you that apparently this Word has already been claimed by Maugrim himself, and worse, Aarin Gend informs you that Aribeth has lead the Luskan army against Neverwinter which is now under siege. You must hurry back to the city to aid in its defense and prevent Maugrim from using his Word to free Morag and her goons.


Neverwinter Nights - Act 4 - War
As you make it back to the city the walls have been breached and the streets are filled with Luskan soldiers and War Golems who the Lords Alliance soldiers desperately try to fight back. Aribeths intimate knowledge of the city's defenses put the defenders in an impossible situation.

You must now find and deal with Aribeth to weaken the Luskan war effort and locate Maugrim and claim the forth Word of Power from him before it's too late. You battle through the Luskan lines until you reach Aribeth's sanctum and confront her. After some heavy fighting against her mixed with talks you either have the ability turn her from her Dark path if you have high enough Diplomacy and make her surrender herself to Lord Nasher, or you'll have to kill her. (This part is fairly similar to your confrontation with Bastila on the StarForge in KotOR.)

Next on is Maugrim, who's not much of a talker. After exchanging some brief taunts you fight him, kill him and loot the final Word of Power from him, which you bring back to Haedraline in Castle Never. Using the Words of Power she sends you inside the Source Stone deep beneath Castle Never, which is where Morag and her goons are now awakening. There you finally confront Morag in person and kill her, putting a stop to her plans once and for all. With their leaders killed or captured and Morag's influence no longer empowering them and weakening the Neverwinter defenders the Luskans flee in disarray and the city is saved.

Thus ends Neverwinter Nights. I'll write the story of Shadows of Undrentide tomorrow, this turned out to be much longer than I anticipated already :)

Jae Onasi
11-24-2006, 02:52 PM
oh Lordy NO! I hate anyone who talks too much, even if they are just pixels and soundfiles..... Im trying my best to avoid picking him in any party :p

mtfbwya
He's not a bad little party member--doesn't talk quite as much as in the beginning. :)

stoffe
11-24-2006, 03:01 PM
He's not a bad little party member--doesn't talk quite as much as in the beginning. :)

But there are better ones, and it's hard enough to squeeze those into the party as it is when you only have 3 slots to choose from most of the time. :) The few party slots and difficulty in switching people in and out of the group does give a few of the party members less active time than the others, and hard to find decent equipment (boots, belts and headgear in particular) for all of them.

Over all Grobnar does remind me a little of Jan Jansen in Baldurs Gate II, another eccentric and motormouthed party member gnome who likes telling stories.

Jae Onasi
11-24-2006, 04:34 PM
But there are better ones, and it's hard enough to squeeze those into the party as it is when you only have 3 slots to choose from most of the time. :)
Oh, Qara's got Elanee and him beat in the spell-casting department for sure, but it's fun to see what they all have to say.
Usually by the time I need to pick up a different party member, I'm ready to go sell something at Sand's place anyway, so it's worked out OK. :)

Achilles
11-24-2006, 08:21 PM
*reads Stoffe -mkb-'s summary* Good lord woman, don't kill yourself.

Thank you though. It wasn't hard to play connect the dots with the multiple "war with Luskan" references, but now I have a better understanding of what transpired. You're the best!

Q
11-25-2006, 01:34 AM
To everyone who has played this game:

What's your final word? Thumbs up or down? And why? :ears1:

Jae Onasi
11-25-2006, 02:14 AM
I'm only in the early parts of the game and I give it a big thumbs-up so far--I've actually died a couple times and had to go back to a previous save, but I honestly didn't really mind too much.
There are a couple piddly little things that bug me (like the door on Sand's shop making you have to hit the W key to get all the way out) and the anatomically incorrect way that the ladies in particular run annoys me a tiny bit (@stoffe--it's weird because they're running bow-legged and the knees don't bend a whole lot when they're jogging. The feet are landing badly supinated--they're actually landing on the lateral (outer) _sides_ of the feet instead of the heels. Of course, I have no clue how to fix it :) ). I also wish I could buy/sell things more than 1 at a time.

However, I like the story so far, the characters are fun, the visual effects for the spells are really cool (either that or I'm easily entertained), some of the weapons are fun, the PC/NPC and NPC/NPC banter can be very amusing, and the quests are interesting to me. All that seriously outweighs the problem areas that they'll hopefully fix soon anyway. :) Plus, I think you can catch it on sale it places like Best Buy.com and other online/brick&mortar retailers.

Det. Bart Lasiter
11-25-2006, 02:58 AM
To everyone who has played this game:

What's your final word? Thumbs up or down? And why? :ears1:
I give it a "meh". It has potential, and there'll likely be an expansion pack or two, and Obsidian has been fixing bugs since it's release. The story is okay, but the ending leaves something to be desired. The graphics were disappointing, and not worth the amount of lag. However, this game gives me another excuse to don my robe and wizard hat.

stoffe
11-25-2006, 09:05 AM
To everyone who has played this game:

What's your final word? Thumbs up or down? And why? :ears1:

The first two acts: Thumbs up, good mix of quests and areas without losing sight of the main quest. :thumbsup:

The third act: Most of it good, though some bad, annoying (AI and pathfinding glitches, plot-NPC munchkinism, overt railroading etc) and partially unfinished.

The ending: Every single thumb humanity can bring to bear down, unless the story will be continued in an expansion, so I'll reserve judgment on that for later. :)

stoffe
11-25-2006, 09:38 AM
the anatomically incorrect way that the ladies in particular run annoys me a tiny bit (@stoffe--it's weird because they're running bow-legged and the knees don't bend a whole lot when they're jogging. The feet are landing badly supinated--they're actually landing on the lateral (outer) _sides_ of the feet instead of the heels. Of course, I have no clue how to fix it :) ). I also wish I could buy/sell things more than 1 at a time.

Yes, many of the female animations are rather annoying. They stand like they are hunched over in the "computer geek sitting in front of computer" pose with the head and throat stuck forwards (something that the cloaks makes look even worse in many cases). The running animations look weird, but they are at least bearable. The walking animations however are the poorest I have seen in any game. They walk like they are robots and it looks very unnatural. Try holding down the Walk key and move around a bit if you haven't already and you'll see. :) At least the spellcasting animations are a clear improvement from NWN1, in my opinion.



the visual effects for the spells are really cool (either that or I'm easily entertained), some of the weapons are fun,

I agree the spell effects over all look pretty good, though some of the weapon damage and onhit effects are a bit too unsubtle for my taste, drowning the target in a huge flash of light so you can't see what you are fighting. But that's a pretty minor thing.

As for weapons that's a bit mixed. Some look plain and NWNW1-esque (but I suppose that's natural, not every weapon in the world can be a masterpiece), while others look very pretty, in particular in areas with certain lighting where the light reflects on different details on the weapon. And the Silver Sword (http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8321/silverswordiq4.jpg) (the one in the opening movie where Ammon Jerro fights the shadow) is very nice both to use and look at. Just too bad you get it so late. How am I going to start a new game without it? :)

Astrotoy7
11-25-2006, 02:45 PM
heya! for those of you with *decent* nvidia graphics cards.... download the newest nVidia 93.71 drivers (http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_93.71.html)

I have a high end graphics card and the differences I noticed were astounding(shadows, reflections etc all looked *superb*) Apart from the hair lookin a bit weird on *some* characters, I dont get people complaining about the graphics :) Really, is Oblivion a better game because you see trees 5 miles away in teh background... :(

RPGS are all about:
1. Storyline
2. Storyline
3. Storyline

Compared to NWN1 though, the spell sounds and effects are awesome... The way a drow casts the globe of darkness is exactly how one would imagine it after reading about it for so many years :D

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6221/darknessvd1.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darknessvd1.jpg)

fun fun fun :) Ive named this drow Drizzt so its impossible not to be a lawful good ranger. I cant wait to make a chaotic evil drow and go through it with her(of course female drow are supremely evil)

mtfbwya

Achilles
11-25-2006, 03:11 PM
To everyone who has played this game:

What's your final word? Thumbs up or down? And why? :ears1:

Playing good: Definite thumbs up. Story is one of the best I've seen (IMHO). A lot of people don't care for the end but I thought it was consistent with the theme of the story:

sacrifice

People that like their RPGs with a happy ending aren't going to like it very much. *cough*stoffe -mkb-*cough* :D

Playing evil: Can't speak much to the story as I'm still in Chapter 1, so I can't tell how much changes later. Thus far, I have to say that playing good is much more consistent and gratifying. Kudos to Obsidian for trying to make evil options more subtle and less thuggish, but they lose points for consistency (damn near nice one second and bloodthirsty monster the next...and I'm referring to the dialog choices).

Technicals: People that complain about the graphics must either be playing on older cards, have the options turned down, or play in the top-down view only. Granted the hair/faces are nothing to write home about (in most cases. A few characters have exceptional textures), but the environments, clothing, armor, etc are some of the best I've seen. Much of the game looks comparable to the screen shots I've seen for Oblivion.

The AI is buggy and it seems to be the most buggy during important fights.

And of course, the game suffers from its fair share of buggy side quests, dialog inconsistencies, etc.

Hopefully, most of the technical problems will be resolved with patches. Even if they are not, hopefully most players will be willing to look past the bugs and be able to enjoy the story nonetheless.

heya! for those of you with *decent* nvidia graphics cards.... download the newest nVidia 93.71 drivers

I have a high end graphics card and the differences I noticed were astounding(shadows, reflections etc all looked *superb*) Apart from the hair lookin a bit weird on *some* characters, I dont get people complaining about the graphics The spell sounds and effects are awesome... The way a drow casts the globe of darkness is exactly how one would imagine it afterr reading about it for so many years

mtfbwyaHa! I had to upgrade just to get out of Daeghun's house. Assuming that it's the drivers that make my game look so pretty, I'll second the rest of your post :)


<snip> and the anatomically incorrect way that the ladies in particular run annoys me a tiny bit (@stoffe--it's weird because they're running bow-legged and the knees don't bend a whole lot when they're jogging. The feet are landing badly supinated--they're actually landing on the lateral (outer) _sides_ of the feet instead of the heels. Of course, I have no clue how to fix it ). I also wish I could buy/sell things more than 1 at a time.Damn you! Chalk this up in the "never noticed it until someone said something, now it's ALL you notice" category *sigh*. As for the buying/selling, this is supposed to be addressed in 1.03 (beta patch was released Wednesday. I'm holding out for the official release).

Jae Onasi
11-25-2006, 03:47 PM
Kudos to Obsidian for trying to make evil options more subtle and less thuggish, but they lose points for consistency (damn near nice one second and bloodthirsty monster the next...and I'm referring to the dialog choices).
Heh, good. I'm not a big fan of DS in Kotor because beating the snot out of people 'just because' is a. not fun and b. kind of stupid if you might need to use them later. :) I prefer utter manipulation myself.

Technicals: People that complain about the graphics must either be playing on older cards, have the options turned down, or play in the top-down view only.
I finally got used to driving camera mode and use that unless I need to see where all the enemies are.

The AI is buggy and it seems to be the most buggy during important fights.
I manage my entire party pretty heavily and pick a lot of the spells and attacks. Probably one of the reasons why it's taking me so long to play, but I'm having fun and my characters don't die as often that way. :)


Damn you! Chalk this up in the "never noticed it until someone said something, now it's ALL you notice" category *sigh*.
The first time I saw Neeshka walking/running I thought 'What is wrong with her legs? She needs some serious orthopedic attention.' Then I noticed she was practically running on her ankles instead of her feet, decided the devs need a little more physiology knowledge, and decided 'Oh, well, maybe if I put a robe on her, it'll all be better....'

If I'd played the game a couple times, I'd be inclined to try out the beta version (since they have a way to revert back if it doesn't work), but I don't want to do that til I've tried it out the way it is currently. :)
Well, that'll be good to have an improved buy/sell feature. I hated buying holy water or cure light wounds 1 at a time when I wanted 20 of the things. :)

stoffe
11-25-2006, 04:26 PM
Playing good: Definite thumbs up. Story is one of the best I've seen (IMHO). A lot of people don't care for the end but I thought it was consistent with the theme of the story: *********
People that like their RPGs with a ***** ****** aren't going to like it very much. *cough*stoffe -mkb-*cough* :D

I liked the game, but definitely not the ending. When I replay it I think I'll mod it so it just skips the ending narration and goes straight to the credits and I'll think up a better "what happens then" in my head instead. Not quite as annoying that way. If Obsidian announce they will make an expansion that continues the story where it ended all will be forgiven though (unless that expansion has a sad excuse for an ending as well). :)



Playing evil: Can't speak much to the story as I'm still in Chapter 1, so I can't tell how much changes later. Thus far, I have to say that playing good is much more consistent and gratifying.

I think I'll do another playthrough and play a bit more chaotic but still good character this time. Last time I turned out ultra-lawful without intending to do so. Started out Neutral Good but got forcibly converted to Lawful Good by the game shortly after arriving in Neverwinter City. Apparently the game didn't think I was very neutral in trying to help others in need. So I suppose trying to play as a warlock is out of the question since I'd be unable to advance in the class when no longer being chaotic really quick. Too bad. :)

By the way, are there any more Bags of Holding in the game than the one in the Captain's Bedroom in Crossroad Keep? I only found that one. And are there any decent headgear other than those +Int wizard headbands and the occasional helmet that grants +1 Concentration? Hardly found any headgear at all during my first playthrough. Boots, gauntlets and belts were also very few and far between, both at the shops I found and as loot.



Technicals: People that complain about the graphics must either be playing on older cards, have the options turned down, or play in the top-down view only.

I tried using the chase camera but felt it too limiting to see what was going on around me that way when you have more than once character to babysit. On the few solo-missions in the game the chase cam worked fairly well though. Traditional perspective view had to suffice, with lots of zooming in and out.


Granted the hair/faces are nothing to write home about (in most cases. A few characters have exceptional textures), but the environments, clothing, armor, etc are some of the best I've seen.


I found at least the choices of female player faces to be fairly unremarkable and look very similar to each other. All the Aasimar heads had almost the exact same facial structure with only slight variations in tattoos etc. Too bad you can't use the Succubus head (http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1944/bloodysuccubuspe8.jpg) as a player character appearance, if you remove the glowing eyes and change the skin/eye color a bit they look pretty decent and could pass for an elf or a half-elf.

Astrotoy7
11-25-2006, 10:16 PM
Oblivion isn't a better game than NWN2, but it is a better-looking game overall. :) Story-wise NWN2 is vastly superior to Oblivion.

Quoted for emphasis :)

Though Ive never been a PnP player, as far as RPG games go, I remember playing text based RPGs on my ole commodore 64. Some of them were quite fun, merely because they had a good storyline.... Oblivions graphics are handy for one thing IMO, benchmarking :)

It's just a shame there isn't more opportunities to explore in NWN2, the areas are so small that you can barely avoid seeing all of it just by moving through them.

If NWN2 was so open ended I'd never play it. I simply dont have the time to run around like a monkey into every cave, wondering whats in there... between work, study and family committments Im glad I can get back on and get back on track reasonably quickly. There are always the xpacks, modules amd toolsets for those wanting more. Also, there is Dragon Age, due next year or so ??

Shouldn't Darkvision (or was it Ultravision, I can never tell them apart) allow you to see through the Darkness though? Seemed to me the Darkness just made it harder for me to see the enemies while the AI didn't seem to have much problem finding and attacking my characters when I cast it.

I dont have any problems. Check your gfx settings perhaps. Look at my screenie. Drizzt is a visible silhouette, and remains so when I cast this spell. This maybe affected depeding on what effects you have turned on etc ?? Maybe thats something someone can mod if its a prevalent problem though ??

Ranger... It's one of those classes I've never understood the charm of. They have a handful of low-level spells, but nothing too exciting or useful compared to druids. They are decent in a fight, but will get their asses handed to them by fighters and barbarians. They have some wilderness perks, but most of the game takes place indoors or in civilized areas. Perhaps it's just because I've never read any Drizzt novels. :)

Its hard not to call a character Drizzt and not have him be a ranger, under the Mielikki etc. I usually throw a few levels of ranger into most characters. This one also has a bit of cleric in him. Ive been playing the game on its normal difficult and only had a handful of sticky situations. If you are careful with party selection, defensive casting and have some good equipment, then I cant see being a ranger to be a disadvantage in any event.

I still hope that I get to choose a panther for my companion after a bit more levelling up.

mtfbwya